Wisdom for Wealth. For Life.

Biblical Financial Planning with Carol Jackovich and Russ Crosson

• Ronald Blue Trust • Season 1 • Episode 4

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In today's episode,  Ronald Blue Trust's executive vice president and chief mission officer, Russ Crosson, has a candid conversation with senior financial advisor, Carol Jackovich, on how biblical financial planning has impacted the lives of clients in all stages of life.

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The information in these podcasts is provided for general educational purposes only.  It is not intended as specific individual advice. The clients’ experience may not be representative of the experience of other clients and they are also not indicative of future performance or success. Opinions expressed may not be those of Ronald Blue Trust.

Trust and investment management accounts and services offered by Ronald Blue Trust, Inc. are not insured by the FDIC or any other federal government agency, are not deposits or other obligations of, nor guaranteed by any bank or bank affiliate, and are subject to investment risk, including possible loss of the principal amount invested.

(calm music)(children chanting)- [Narrator] Welcome to the Wisdom For Wealth For Life Podcast. Let's bridge the gap between your faith and your finances. At Ronald Blue Trust we apply Biblical wisdom and technical expertise to help you make wise financial decisions. Our goal is to help you leave a lasting legacy. In this podcast, you will hear inspiring stories, practical tips, and encouragement for the Ronald Blue Trust family with special guests along the way. Welcome to the Wisdom For Wealth For Life Podcast. The information in these podcasts is provided for general educational purposes only. It's not intended a specific individual advice. The clients experience may not be representative of the experience of other clients, and they're also not indicative of future performance or success. Opinions expressed may not be those of Ronald Blue Trust. In today's episode Ronald Blue Trust Chief Mission Officer Russ Crosson has a candid conversation with Financial Advisor, Carol Jackovich. They discuss how biblical financial planning has impacted the lives of clients in all stages of life.- Well, welcome to the Wisdom For Wealth For Life Podcast. I'm pleased to be here today with Carol Jackovich long time advisor here at the company and visiting with you all a little bit about a new book we have called"Your Money Made Simple. So Carol welcome.- Thank you, Russ, I'm really excited to be here.- Yeah, I've been here for just celebrating my 41st year and I've told people who's got back from a road trip visiting all their Ron Blue offices. And just told them I was excited today as I was 41 years ago when I started, because of the fact that we get to implement these timeless unchanging principles with our clients at every demographic level. So I know you've got a lot of experience. Talk about a little bit how you've gotten into financial planning and what you do with your clients.- Right, well, so my background, I started in a totally different field. My undergraduate degree was electrical engineering and about 10 years into that providentially, God really brought me here. And that's the cool thing I've found that God really providently has worked each of our stories into the firm. So, I was feeling a nudge to do something else. And I was taking a financial Bible study called Crown Ministries at the time. And every week I'd come in and I'd say, I need you guys to pray about what my next thing is. You know, I feel like I wanna be more involved in God's work directly. I feel like I may wanna counsel people, but I don't really know what the next step is. And it just so happened providentially the leader of my Bible study with a partner here at Ronald Blue. And she said to me, you know, Carol, we are always looking for good financial advisors and you have the math background and the people skills and you should just come check out what we do. I had never even heard of what financial planners did. And I came here and was just blown away, came for some informational interviews. And from there I was convinced, I would do anything to be have the privilege of doing this job. So thankfully I started at the bottom, came in and studied for my CFP and got the on the job training and had been a financial advisor here for about 21 years.- Well, gosh, incredible over two decades I know you've done a great job and it's neat to hear your providential story about how you got here. Mine somewhat similar, I was a math teacher and coaching basketball and football. And my father-in-law said, don't sign any contracts, you meet this guy named Ron Blue, he may be onto something. And so put my a wife of one year and I got into Utah, I'd never been to the Mississippi and came to work for this fledgling startup financial services company. And you know, I used to teach folks math and now I get to teach them biblical principles. Our firm verses to instruct those who are rich not to be conceited or fixed or hoping the uncertainty of riches. 1 Timothy 6:17-19. So, I've been in the instruction business now for really 44 years, three in the public schools. And then now 41 years at Ron Blue, but teaching principles about money management. And that's why this book, we wrote "Your Money Made Simple." The publisher said, hey, can you guys write a how to book? And I thought, you know, we wrote some why to books, but I didn't think I could write a how to book. But then I thought, wait a minute, if I can write what we do in couples come to our house or an individuals come to our house and we talk through their money situation, then I can write that. So we really wrote the book as if you're sitting in our living room and we got a flip chart out. I wanted to call the book, the flip chart, but nobody in this generation knows what the flip chart is.- [Carol] Right.- So we had to call it"Your Money Made Simple."- [Carol] Right.- But the principles are very they're not necessarily easy to do, but they're not complicated. And so in the book, we try to just make it, distill it down to the fact that you do these few things you can be financially free. So, I know you've counseled a lot of couples talk to us a little bit about how you've seen those principles work. Maybe tell a mission accomplished story, we have loved those round here. So you have some things that you've done with clients around those principles you wanna share?- Oh yeah, I have a lot of stories, but one that I think of is really recent. You'll love this, but somebody gave him this book young couple about to get married and the guy called me all excited. You know we wanna work with you as an advisor. We wanna get off to the right start. They were awesome, we did Zoom calls and they had a huge whiteboard behind them. And on the first call they had worked about halfway through this book. They were great. And after we went through a call and I gave them a few tweaks and a few things to think about as they were looking at some goals and maybe a little bit different direction on some things. The second call they had worked through the rest of this book. And it was so helpful to them. I can't tell you how excited they were to know that they were getting off the start of their marriage with a good solid financial plan. One that was gonna help them accomplish the goals God has given them. One that was gonna help them stay on the same page and really be unified.- Men that's cool, I'm really glad you did that. And you know, that warms my heart because we want people on a good path with their money. And at the end of the day, the subtitle of the book is"The Key to Financial Freedom," not financial success or financial independence,'cause I can't tell you how to do those things.- [Carol] Right.- But as you've experienced with that couple and others, you can be financially free, which is to have options. And it's just simply spend less than you make and do it for a long time. And that's like I said, easier said than done, but it's not complicated. And the fact that there's only five things you can do with money. I mean, a lot of people will say really Carol, only five things. You don't know my spouse or whatever, but there are more than five things. Everything to do with money will be in one of those five categories. And so what we do and what you've done for 21 years and I've done for 41 years is really help people whether they're a young couple, like you just said, starting out or somebody getting ready to retire, really just really understand what's in those five boxes, we call them, they're living, they're giving, their taxes, their debt payments and then what's leftover savings. And so that was neat, you were able to help that couple. Now your daughter just went off to college, right?- Well, she's heading off next year. Yes, she just got accepted to college, yes.- Well, you know, this book I think should be there for every college graduate because there's a formula in the book that really helps people know how much they need to make. And I have found that I was with a guy the other day in my Bible study and I could tell they were having some marriage issues because his income was down. And he was trying to get his wife to reduce her grocery budget and her clothing budget and all this. But the fact was he didn't know how much they need to make.- Right.- And maybe you've found that to be the case, you ask people how much do you need to make? And they probably give you their cash flow or their budget, but that's not the right number. We have to help them understand that I've got to make a certain amount that's gross. And then I've got to live, give and pay my taxes. And so it's just been interesting to me that very few people know their number. Based on my lifestyle, how much do I have to make? And I think for a college kid, for example, getting out of college, the apartment they rent, the cars they drive, the vacation decisions they make are all gonna drive up how much they have to make. And I think it's important for them to know what's their number make sure (laughs).- Oh absolutely, you will really appreciate. And this is the other part of the providence, why I became a financial planner. A lot of this was drilled into my head when I was growing up. And you know, my dad, when I graduated from college, before I went off to my job at Texas Instruments, he handed me the yellow legal pad because we didn't have much in the way of computers back then.- [Russ] No we didn't.- You're not going anywhere until you write out your budget. And of course I rolled my eyes(laughs) I was like, really?(laughs) As I often did with many things, he said was like, that's right. Show me how it's all gonna work. So he made me write out my financial plan.- Good for him. He probably knew the formula before I even put it the book. So, but now we've formalized it. But I think, if you're listening to this and just make sure you're understanding what Carol saying working with a couple, she just mentioned working with clients as we have for over four decades. We just help people get their arms around their financial situation to make sure they're spending less than they making. The key to financial freedom is just do that for a long time. And that's not necessarily making more money, it's just spending less than you make and doing the principles, diversifying, being generous, getting out of debt, those kinds of things. And so do you have any other client stories you wanna share with us?- I do okay, so this is really my favorite. So I have this client that came in and they did have quite a bit of debt, but they had assets too. It was kind of a long story, but back in 2008, when the housing market crashed, they had felt like they needed to move< and they ended up with several houses. So they ended up with a couple of rental houses and their main house. And they were just drowning yet, they were not willing to sell the rental houses because the wisdom of the world was like, no, you can't you're gonna lose money, it's not the right time. So, we went through a whole financial plan and I said, I really think you need to sell these rental houses. We need to take the equity, pay off the debt and then get all these boxes right and go forward from here. So, they didn't really like it when I said it. And they called me back two years later and they said, we did not like what you had to say. However, we have done this and we need you to know it has turned our life around. Not only did they get their finances going in the right place, but the amazing thing was they both lost huge amounts of weight, got their health under control. Because I think what we see is the finances are so tied into every part of us. Our physical lives, our spiritual lives. And if it's out of control and we're frustrated and drugged down by it, everything is out of control. And they got it in control, and I mean, their physical lives were better, their spiritual lives were better. Their marriage was better in just a huge way. And that's my favorite story.- Well, we have a diagram in one of our books,"Your Life Well Spent." Which shows money sitting in the middle of your life and to get balanced in your life and not have any regrets, you need to manage your money. And so I really appreciate what you said about that couple. They really got some peace of mind as well. And I like to say we are a peace of mind company masquerading as a financial services company. And so your story about the debt and paying off the rentals, I've got to tell real quick story. So a friend of mine in the neighborhood every year, I'd say have you paid off your house? Have you paid off your house? He goes, no, no, no, I've got to invest the money. That's what the world says invest. Well here, few years ago I was driving down the street and they're out walking him and his wife. And he said, hey, I got a big bonus from my company. I said, well are you gonna pay off your house? Well, no, I'm not gonna pay my house off. Well, finally, we got him a Ron Blue advisor, the advisors finally able to influence him enough to pay off his house. And Carol, what happened was he wrote me and said, I under estimated the psychic benefit of not having any debt- [Carol] For sure.- I mean, it was not a bad financial decision. He avoided that debt and just like a bond investment.- [Carol] Right.- But he said, I'd never understood the psychic benefit that came from paying off debt. And so I think that's another thing we've learned is, and we encourage our clients. One of our principles is to be in the process of getting out of debt. Because like you said, the peace of mind factor that can come from that, the freedom, obviously, if you don't have debt, your living expenses go down. And when he paid off his home his living expenses went down. Which met the number he had to make went down.- [Carol] Right.- Which gives him more options.- [Carol] Sure.- Yeah, you never regret. Here's what I tell people. You're free to accept or reject the truth, but you're not free from the consequences if you decide to reject it. So that person didn't like what you told them, but he told them truth.- [Carol] Right.- And then when they did it, they felt good about that. And I think that's what I've learned over 40 years is we all have a choice. We can either do what the principles or we can keep not doing them and have the consequences. So I've really love that story. Any other stories are great I mean, that's what makes this company so fun. Any others you wanna share?- Yeah, well, there are so many, I mean, some of my favorite stories have to do with giving, okay? You know, I know, we know that giving releases the bondage of fear about having enough money. It releases greed when we give and there is just this spiritual factor that I can't even tell a person how it's going to turn out right? If they are obedient to giving. I may not be able to work the numbers with pen and paper or on the computer, but I know they're gonna be blessed.- You just can't out give God. And that's what's interesting.- You can't out give God.- 'Cause it makes no sense worldly wise to give something away.- Yeah.- But because we're living in a country where you get tax deductions, kind of a matching program that kind of helps and you're right. I've seen it, you just can't out give God.- So yeah, I had, this was a couple of years ago, a woman who was struggling a little bit with her faith and trying to grow. And she was talking about one place she was struggling with was giving. And it was obviously on her heart'cause we've been talking about it. But I finally just told her, I'm like, you've just got to do that, be obedient to that. And she was scared to death, but again, got a phone call, a couple months later she said, you're just not gonna believe, this is how much I gave. And she listed five things, a bonus at work, a refund from the utility company, five things that basically total to the same amount. And I mean I hear stories like that all the time. I bet you've got great giving stories, can you tell me any of your great giving stories.- Well, you know, probably the neatest story is and I've told this when I speak now a lot is started working with this couple over in South Carolina in 1983. And we came along, they were given $7,000 a year, but they had a single stock in a trust and individually. And so our diversification plan applying the principle of diversification was we were gonna sell stock, but also give stock appreciated property. And we're gonna start this strategy to get them diversified. And so he's giving went from 7,000 to 70,000, the very first year which I worked with them.- [Carol] Wow.- And now you fast forward 35 years, Carol. And this gentleman passed away and every year I'd go over and see him in December and we'd talk about giving and he had turned, why does he, where does it go? Just cause like really, how can I keep giving all this and still make it? But when he passed away a few years ago, the neatest thing was going to the funeral. And one of his sons got up and said, if you were impacted by my dad's generosity, this way, stand up. So few people stood up. If you're impacted by my dad's generosity, this way, stand up three more people stood up. And pretty soon everybody in the church was standing up Carol. And it just brought tears to my eyes and gave me goosebumps to look around that church and see all these people standing up because this one man had chosen like you said, to be obedient to what God said. And to be generous with what he'd been blessed with, and that was his reward. And then we went out to the grave site and one of the grandchildren came up and said, thanks for working with my granddad. And so, you know, you really cannot out give God a generosity is a beautiful thing. You know, to him, much has been given much is required. In fact is I like to give to four letter words when it comes to giving our firm verse 1 Timothy says,"Instruct those who are rich to be generous and store up treasures in heaven." And I call that a wise person. And then on the other hand is the farmer in Luke 12 who was not rich towards God and was not generous. And he was called a fool. And so the idea that I can be wise or I can be a fool, I think is a pretty compelling contrast. And one of the ways we're wise as we do what that verse says and we give, and we give and in this book,"Your Money Made Simple." Obviously that's one of the boxes.- Yes.- Is we increase people to give, pay their taxes, pay their debt, and then what's left over by the way, those are three things that aren't discretionary. You have to pay your debt, yet to pay your taxes. And you need to give, to acknowledge God's ownership. Well, then what's left over, you can say we're spending to live.- And that's so key what's left over so giving first.- Giving first.- Most people come in and what's first living it first.- They live, most people, they do it in reverse. They live, they hope they can pay their debt. Hopefully they paid enough tax and then whatever's left over, gets given. And so we in this book, we really we'd numbered the boxes one through five. And we do them in a specific order for a specific reason. What do you do first? What do you do second? What do you do third? And it's just the opposite of what most people do. Most people live and hope it all works out. The other thing I've seen, I mentioned another story, but was that couple that he lost his job and had all the money in retirement. So many people default to retirement, even too soon in their financial sojourn. So they don't pay off the debt. They aren't generous because they've been told by the world you'd need to aspire to retire and quit.- Right.- So you've probably seen some of that where retirement's kind of out of balance. You have a lot of men retire but they have no money.- That's right.- And you can't buy kids braces or you can't buy a car, whatever with retirement money.- Right.- So you've gotta balance, and you've probably seen that with your clients. You see for primary.- Yeah, and where does the Bible talk about getting in a hurry to retire? I don't remember it.- It's not in there. So have you seen clients that when you meet with them have way more in retirement and not a lot of cash usually. And so you never regret. So the idea of having some cash also, when you have cash, you're always more generous.- [Carol] Right?- If you have cash, you always can meet needs and be more generous. And so, like I said, at the outset of this is that this isn't easy to do.- [Carol] No.- But it's not complicated. You have your income, you live, give, pay your taxes, pay off your debt, get that gone. And then what's left over savings then you figure out, does it go in retirement, does it go on personal savings and things like that? So, have you seen that when people to make their budgets work, you mentioned to me earlier that your dad made you do a budget and get that yellow sheet out.- Right.- Have you found that it's easier for people to budget when they have cash and liquidity?- All for sure, yeah, much easier. I mean, they can't make it work when they don't have cash or liquidity.'Cause you're never gonna hit the exact numbers right? Your car is gonna break down. The rocks is gonna go through the windshields, that will happen. Yeah, you've got to have the cash.- Yeah, the emergency fund idea and having some money in the bank is just back to the peace of mind factor. And so I think if you're listening to this, we would encourage you to pick up a copy of "Your Money Made Simple." It's kind of a real simple how to book with a lot of pictures. And I'm not a lot of words, but we try to...- We like that way (laughs).- We kinda try to cut through to the idea that, hey, fill in the boxes, make sure you have a positive savings every year and enjoy the trip. And I think when you do that, you'll have a peace of mind existence with money. And so I really appreciate all you've done for 21 years. Thanks for serving the clients like you do. And for those cool we call those mission accomplished stories. When, like you said, the person was able to give the other person called you back in two years and thank you for your advice. So, that's what makes it so fun. And I've been at it twice as long as you, but Lord willing.- Hopefully I'll be twice as long in no time.- You'll be at another 40 years and I'll be at another 20. So, Carol, thanks so much for your time today.- Thank you.- [Announcer] Thank you so much for listening to the Wisdom for Wealth For Life Podcast. If you're looking for financial advice, please contact us. Please visit ronblue.com, that's ronblue.com. Thank you for listening, and please subscribe to wherever you listen to your podcasts. Ronald Blue Trust is a trademark used by Thrivent Trust Company, a federal savings association and Thrivent Trust Company of Tennessee Incorporated. A Tennessee public trust company, separate affiliated entities. Trust and investment management accounts and services offered by Ronald Blue Trust are not insured by the FDIC or any other federal government agency, are not deposits or other obligations of, nor guaranteed by any bank or bank affiliate, and are subject to invest risk, including possible loss of the principle amount invested.(gentle music)