MONEY WITHOUT MATH

Build A Cohesive Relationship with Rebecca Lockwood & Tom Bouwer

• Karen Coyne, CFP®

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Can you strengthen your relationship by applying the same principles you might use in business?

Karen Coyne invites you to explore this concept with guests Rebecca Lockwood and Tom Bower, co-authors of "The Cohesive Couple". They offer practical insights on how couples can align visions and improve communications by using systems similar to those used to run successful businesses.

Rebecca and Tom share their journey from business coaching to helping couples create a harmonious home life. From establishing a shared vision to planning accountability meetings, listen in to learn how to put problems in front of you rather than between you.

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About Rebecca Lockwood:

Rebecca uses her diverse experiences to create a unique approach to life, relationships, and personal growth. With over 15 years of experience in the hospitality industry and six years as a business coach, she has dedicated her career to helping individuals and couples unlock their full potential. Her coaching philosophy is deeply rooted in her own life experiences. As a traveler at heart, Rebecca constantly seeks authentic experiences and relationships. She firmly believes that life is richer when surrounded by family and friends.

About Tom Bouwer:

As an entrepreneur and coach, Tom brings over 30 years of U.S. and international experience to his work, helping both companies and individuals. Having started three successful companies in Turkey, Tom offers a unique global perspective. Together with his wife Windy, he is passionate about exploring the world and creating lasting memories, an approach he brings to his professional endeavors. Drawing from his diverse background and his own marriage, Tom helps people navigate challenges and strengthen their relationships. His unique approach combines business acumen with fresh insights into the complex dynamics today’s marriages face. His books have sold over 1 million copies worldwide and offer practical tools for immediate impact. As a speaker and coach, Tom dedicates his time to guiding leadership teams, individuals, and couples towards reaching their full potential.

Karen Coyne [00:00:04]:

Do you want to be better with money but dread the math? I get it. That's why this show is not focused on math, the markets, meme stocks, or even economic predictions. It is focused on how money fits into your daily life, from having healthy money conversations to caring for an aging parent. I'm Karen Coyne, a certified financial planner professional and your host of Money Without Math.


Join us for conversations that are practical, sometimes philosophical, and always fresh. Learn more about me@raymondjames.com clarity and be sure to subscribe.


Imagine if Amazon or Chick-fil-A had no systems, if they just winged their operations every day. That's crazy, right? Systems are critical in our work and businesses to keep things running smoothly. But what if we applied some of these same principles to our most important relationships? What if we had systems in place with our spouse or partner to improve communication, promote connection, and align visions?


Our guests today are Rebecca Lockwood and Tom Bouwer, co-authors of The Cohesive Couple, along with James Lockwood, Rebecca's husband. Rebecca also serves as the founder of The Cohesive Couple, where the three work together in a community of growth-minded couples. Tom is a lifelong entrepreneur and both Tom and Rebecca are former EOS implementers. That's entrepreneurial operating system for those in the know. Both have lived and worked internationally and are joining us here today. Thank you guys for joining us.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:01:47]:

Thank you so much for having us.


Tom Bouwer [00:01:48]:

Thank you.


Karen Coyne [00:01:50]:

I saw that your book was recently featured in Times Square.


Tom Bouwer [00:01:54]:

Yes, we're pretty excited about that and we've just been very, very grateful for all the support and help and just reviews that we've gotten. It's been wonderful.


Karen Coyne [00:02:06]:

That's incredible. I mean, that's not something that most authors can say is that shortly after launch their book is featured in Times Square. So pretty cool.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:02:15]:

Thank you.


Tom Bouwer [00:02:15]:

Thank you.


Karen Coyne [00:02:16]:

That's got to be like a pinch me thing a little bit.


Tom Bouwer [00:02:20]:

It is. I, you know, when we started this journey, you know, for the company itself, maybe 18 months ago, certainly with the book, we didn't really know where it would lead. And I think, you know, Rebecca, you really started this about six, seven years ago with James.


Right. And, and that's really what led to us getting together to create the model and system that we have. But Rebecca, you kind of, you know, went through it to, so to speak, to, to get it to where it was, so.


Karen Coyne [00:02:52]:

Yeah, and that's a great segue actually. And that's what where I wanted to start is.

You know, Rebecca, I know you have a background in hospitality and then working as a business coach. And so how did that, how did that lead you to cohesive couple?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:03:10]:

Yeah, it's, it's definitely been a journey, that's for sure. But I was working with mainly entrepreneurial companies. I was a business coach, or I still am a business coach, but helping them to get their vision on paper to communicate better, to align, to get better results.


And at the same time, my personal life was not going really well at all. Had small kids, lots of chaos. I was getting exposed to a lot of amazing opportunities and growth. And my husband is actually a stay at home dad and his conversations were with, you know, five and three year olds and just wasn't getting the same level of exposure. And it was this kind of aha moment of why am I not think bringing in some of these same tools and concepts and using them to understand each other.


So, you know, we started tiptoeing into building our vision and plan and we used some of the assessments to realize that we had very different styles of operating. And that was causing some initial conflict that I think in the beginning of the relationship you love. But as it goes, you know, you get further and further down the line. Those things that initially were attractive can get a little the opposite.


Karen Coyne [00:04:27]:

You're right, I can imagine.


But you know, when I was looking at your BIOS for each of you and with both of you being former EOS implementers, you know, I just thought, oh my gosh, that's such a natural progression. And looking back, right? Like, looking back, it's not like everyone that that is great at running organizations is also great at personal relationships. But I just thought, oh, that's so smart to take some of those very systems that you use to make a business successful and apply that to your most important relationship. But I'm sure it's simple in concept, but applying it is another correct.


Tom Bouwer [00:05:08]:

But it was interesting because we've always said, as business coaches, we've always said every company has an operating system whether they know it or not. But as we dug into relationships and couples, we found the same thing. Every couple has an operating system. How they parent, how they use money, how they make financial decisions, how they interact, how they solve problems together, how they handle risk and take chances, how they, you know, all those things. It's the same things that companies do.


So actually every couple has a system whether they know it or not.


Karen Coyne [00:05:43]:

Yes, and you know that. So we've done a couple episodes on topics related to marriage and divorce. And you know, there's so many resources devoted to cleaning up the aftermath when, when a Relationship doesn't work well, right? There's, there's attorneys, there's accountants who specialize, you know, the financial planners who specialize in area.


There's all kinds of professionals who help. And I just thought, you know, why, why don't we have more proactive stuff on the front end? Why don't we have, we have more required hours of CE for most of us in our professions than we have for our most important relationships. There is no default.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:06:28]:

James always gets mad when I use his joke because he, he says he wishes he'd gotten something like this as a wedding present instead of a crock pot.


You know, the idea of a, of an, of a manual that you could use to, it's such an important relationship and oh my gosh, you get married and all of a sudden what do we do now? You may not have had those important conversations around shared vision, around your beliefs, around money, your how you problem solve, how you show up. So it's, it's. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely.


Karen Coyne [00:07:01]:

Yes. So tell me, I mean this sounds great. I'm sure anyone, if you're listening and you're thinking, okay, cohesive couple. I like the sound to that. I would like to be part of a more cohesive couple.


Where do you begin? What is the first step that you share with your readers, with your community?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:07:20]:

Yeah, we get asked this question a lot and on our website, which I'm sure will be referenced in the show notes. But, but we do have a cohesive vision and plan. It's a one page vision and plan.


And that's really I believe where you should start, right? Schedule a date, go on a walk and just start to have some of the conversations around your vision and how those. And what do you want first? What's important to you? Where do you want to go and what are the most important next steps?


So that's the first step in the process would be start to get aligned on your vision and plan. And I think this is a work in process, right. It's something that evolves as you evolve. So it's not one and done. This is what we put down.


This has to stay forever. But it is a really good first step. And then we also on our resources, we have a meeting, we call it a weekly sync that you can just start to get on the same page about logistics, about the things that matter so that you have a place to park all those things and they're not random one off conversations. Being very intentional about showing up and starting to move some of your goals forward. But also Tackling and problem solving.


Some of the things that can get in the way, along, along the way.


Karen Coyne [00:08:43]:

Okay. And is this similar to one on ones that people might experience in a corporate environment? When you say sync.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:08:51]:

Interesting.


So yeah, I mean you could maybe think of it as a one on one. We actually adopted it more from our leadership team meeting of what are the most important things that we need to be talk about and are we making progress on our goals and are we making sure that we're staying connected? And there's, we're having a little bit of a reflective moment of reflection of what worked last week, what didn't work and how can we make, you know, set ourselves up this week for a great week.


Karen Coyne [00:09:22]:

Tom, you were making a face when I asked that question.


Tom Bouwer [00:09:27]:

I guess we'd never thought of it as a one on one as Rebecca said. And I think that, you know, what Rebecca was really just saying, same thing with our vision and plan is that what we're really trying to get to is little baby steps, Progress, not perfection. Right. So even with the simple eight sections of our vision and plan, it's never going to be perfect. And so it's start one section, create a three year picture for yourselves, create one year goals.


But then you need to take something from that vision down then to what are we doing each week to move things forward. And you know, Wendy, my wife and I have found that very helpful as, as we've been going through different stages and have different goals to just break it down. Did we make progress this last week and then okay, what do we need to do next week to make it a little bit better? And that's been very, very beneficial. Along with that.


I think one of the things that we're getting at here is what makes this different than other types of things. Because Rebecca, you went to a lot of one off retreats and what was your experience?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:10:46]:

Yeah, I mean I can definitely speak to that. Especially as James and I really started to dig in and want to make our marriage great and want to really get through some of the harder things that we had experienced. We would go to amazing, you know, like a marriage retreat and you leave, you're all excited about these things and then, you know, six months later, what happened to them.


So I believe one of the benefits of being of a, of a full blown system is not only do you get to have this moment or these, you know, opportunities at a quarterly and an annually basis to step up, reflect what's working, what's not working, what are our priorities, but these weekly Syncs keep you aligned throughout the quarter and keep momentum going. So it's not just one and done. Right. You're creating that momentum.


Karen Coyne [00:11:35]:

So a weekly sync, and then what's the cadence for the other quarterlies and annuals?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:11:40]:

Yeah, so my husband and I actually block a full day each quarter, and we get together and we plan what our most important priorities are. But it also gives us an opportunity to really get deep on some of the things in our vision that we might need to dig into, or I think one. One of our quarterlies. We were reviewing our bucket list. We have a bucket list together that we want to do, and we also have our own individual bucket lists.


And I'm not always known as being the most tactful. And I think I said something like, you know, honey, this opportunity to go to Everest Base Camp, you're not getting any younger. Like, this has been on this list for years. Are you going to do it? And so he actually got the opportunity.


It's been actually almost a year now to go with my son. The two of them went to Nepal and got to, as he says, touch the mountain. So quarterlies and annuals are also a really important part of the system.


Karen Coyne [00:12:37]:

I love that idea, and I love the specific thought of reviewing a bucket list, because I'm thinking, okay, if I'm just getting started with this, and I'm thinking goals, I might be just so overwhelmed with trying to get my relationship back on track that, you know, I'm like, what. What do I want from three years from now?


I don't know. Do you see couples struggling with that? And what are some of the, you know, goals that maybe you frequently see, like, frequently occurring?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:13:05]:

So something that really wasn't. Was a.


An evolution was James learning how to dream again. So both Tom and I are very visionary entrepreneurs, and we have no problem dreaming about, you know, 10 things before we get our coffee.


Karen Coyne [00:13:24]:

Yeah.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:13:24]:

But I think what had happened for James was life was very overwhelming and chaotic, and I would be traveling for work, and he was at home with kids and, you know, trying to figure out all of those logistical things. And I think a lot of the dreams that he once had, you know, sort of just got stifled, and he was trying to survive today.


Couldn't even think about tomorrow.


Karen Coyne [00:13:47]:

Yes, exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:13:50]:

Yeah. It really is a process of having to learn how to give yourself permission to not get caught up in the how you're going to do it and really get clear on what you want, and then it's simply okay.


Let's create action steps around it.


Tom Bouwer [00:14:08]:

You know, Rebecca, though, one of the things I know that you learned and one of the things that I learned is how to put the problem in front of you instead of between you. And so when you want different things, then a lot of couples, and I used to do this will fall into the I have to win the discussion. It has to be my way. Because if it's not my way, then she wins, and then it's her way.


Karen Coyne [00:14:36]:

Right.


Tom Bouwer [00:14:36]:

And we were approaching it with kind of an I win, we lose operating system. And instead we now look for how do we both win together? How do we make both things possible? So how do we dream about these?


And I think that goes into Rebecca's point, really, about you have to give your permission yourself permission to dream, because there are ways to make things happen, and there are ways for you both to win. You just have to have a very creative mindset of saying, how do we do both of these things? Right. How do we have, you know, in our case, how do we. How do we see 50 countries and 50 states in 10 years?


Wow. You know? Or how do we keep, you know, close to her family and friends while we travel around the U.S. you know, so there are things that would seem conflicting at first, but as we got creative, we found a way to. To really meet both of our goals at the same time, and that really deepened and strengthened our connection.


Karen Coyne [00:15:40]:

That's. I really like that you said putting. What did you say? Putting the problem in front of us instead of between us.


Tom Bouwer [00:15:47]:

Yeah.


Karen Coyne [00:15:48]:

And.


Tom Bouwer [00:15:48]:

And I know that Rebecca and James, when you guys were looking at do we want the white picket fence house, or do we want to be a vagabond or a hobo and travel all over the world, those seem like pretty, you know, opposing options there. And you're able to basically come together and find a way to get both.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:16:08]:

Yeah. The concept of putting the problem in front of you instead of between you is actually a Gottman concept, and it's so beautiful.


So a lot of our journey, we've learned so much through reading basically anything by John and Julie Gottman. But the idea of oftentimes in relationships, we can be very emotional. And so the idea of if that problem is in front of you. Right. It's simply a problem to solve, even if there's some emotions around it, but approaching it together instead of letting it come in between you.


So it's been a really powerful concept for us. And as we talk with couples in our program or as we approach things, especially around that can come up with vision often. How can we have both?


Karen Coyne [00:16:55]:

How often are you seeing financial goals or concerns come up with couples?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:17:01]:

I mean, I think it's one of the most common problems, right.


And so often we're not actually fighting about money or having a conflict about money. It's about your belief about money. So, yeah, we, we definitely, that is definitely a common source of conflict or of opportunity. Right. People see that money might not have been their strong suit in the past, and they don't know how to make it a priority and get on the same page with aligned goals around money.


Tom Bouwer [00:17:35]:

One of the tools that we actually have put in place is a monthly money sync. And just like you have a weekly sink, you know, to approach the, the tactical things going on in life and review your calendars and talk about any issues which up on a weekly basis. Our money sync actually gives couples the opportunity to pick one money topic every month, spend 45 minutes and just do a deep dive. It could be money with our kids, it could be estate planning, you know, it could be, hey, let's just get a list of all of our accounts and who's the beneficiary. But to take it just month by month, take one deep dive topic about money and spend a little time on it together and you'll see a common theme here.


Karen Coyne [00:18:24]:

Yes, that's. And that's something that's come up several times on the show in different flavors. Some call it a money date. And I will add to that, I think, you know, again, for those people going, I don't even know where to begin, right? My life's been in a blender.


I've got kids on every hip. I've got, you know, laundry out the wazoo. I don't, I don't even know what I should be thinking about. My thought was start with a podcast just like this one, you know, to get the juices stirring. Maybe you listen to the show, you read a book, you know, whatever your content, you know, medium of choice is.


And you know, and it doesn't have to be the whole thing. Maybe it's like a chapter of a book, right? Or a 30 minute podcast episode, and then you discuss the episode or you discuss that chapter during that sync. Just as a place to get started. What do you think about that?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:19:16]:

I love that I actually have several couples in our, in our community that do something similar and bring that into whether it's, it's something inspiring and they bring it into like their date or whether they actually bring it into their weekly sync. So kind of whatever works for them. But absolutely. We had a couple, we brought in a speaker talking about the psychology of money and your money beliefs. And it was so fascinating because they had very wildly different upbringings.


You know, one was always very short of money and money was scarce, and one, it was completely the opposite. And so while they had a lot of aligned goals around what they wanted to do with their money, the way that they got there constantly caused conflict. And so just into that and understanding that a little bit more gives you more.


Karen Coyne [00:20:04]:

Oh, my gosh, first, for certain. And it's not that your way is right or my way is wrong.


It's just this is what we know. You know, it's, it's. I always think about, like your mom's spaghetti or your mom's meatloaf, like, that's the baseline by which you compare any other spaghetti you're going to have in the rest of your life is. How does it compare to your. That's what you know.


You know, it doesn't matter if it was ragu or if it was like legit Italian, slow cooked all day long. That's. That's your baseline.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:20:31]:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.


Tom Bouwer [00:20:33]:

You know, you bring up kind of an interesting point there, which is, how do you get started? And I always made the mistake in the past of thinking that it's just so overwhelming, I don't know where to go. And I had to just be okay with it not being perfect when I started, and to just be okay with, okay, let's just tackle this little piece. And even that little piece, I may get it 80% wrong, but I started somewhere and then I was really looking at, okay, what's the next little baby step that I take? And money can be such a emotional and an overwhelming topic for a lot of people.


And I think, you know, podcasts like yours break it down into something that's just, like you said, 30 minutes, it's digestible. Let's just have a discussion. Let's not even try to have an outcome. Let's talk a little bit and see where our heads are. And I, I found that to be incredibly beneficial to get things going.


Karen Coyne [00:21:32]:

Great. Yes, yes, yes. Which leads me to, you know, okay, like, Rebecca, you were saying a little bit ago, you'd go to these retreats, you'd leave feeling rah, rah, rah, but you didn't have a system in place. And so therefore, six months later, you're back at square one. So the couples that you work with in your community, okay, they have a system.


Where do you see that they go sideways and, you know, what do you have to offer in those situations?


Rebecca Lockwood [00:21:58]:

Gosh, I think a really common one. We actually have quarterly accountability meetings where they have to come and say what they got done or didn't get done of their goals for the quarter. And some of the most common ones are, you know, this quarter was just so hectic. Like, we didn't even.


We almost didn't show up on the call today because we got sideways. And maybe something personally happened in their life, maybe something changed with a job or a house or a move. And, you know, the idea of progress, not perfection. Right. That has completely happened to James and I too, where we had all of these great intentions and, you know, life happens.


Right. Sometimes life lifes you. But the fact that they showed up on that call means that now it's an opportunity to completely reset and start all over again, look back on what did get in the way and then say, okay, how can we problem solve this and maybe solve some of the deeper systemic things that are getting in the way of us not making progress? You know, like Rebecca taking on too much. Right.


Might be a trend that happens once in a while. How do we make sure that we bring that back and come up with a plan?


Karen Coyne [00:23:06]:

Yeah, but so what I'm hearing is give yourself a chance to reset. Acknowledge it. Don't go down the guilt, shame spiral and make it, you know, continue that pattern, but just recognize it and give yourself that chance to reset.


Tom Bouwer [00:23:22]:

It is also fun to be around other couples in our community where I can walk in, you know, as one of the founders with Rebecca, and say, hey, you know what? Last quarter we managed to do two weekly sinks and we. We just sucked. There's no other way to say it. Everybody kind of laughs and goes, yeah, well, we didn't quite do so well either.


And you know, and it's just, you just acknowledge the fact that, hey, we're not perfect and it's okay, and it's just a lot of fun. And, you know, it leads me to one other, I guess, point I did want to make is that the structure of the system that we have in place is not meant to be rigid. And I think, you know, people hear structure and they think, oh, no, I hate structure. Trust me, Rebecca hates structure. I hate structure.


We don't like structure. But what we found is that with a moderate amount of structure, you actually, as a couple, get the highest level of connection, alignment and achievement with just a little bit. And we encourage couples to. To take our model and our framework if you will, and use it and apply it to them and make it their own and just have some consistency and accountability and use which tools you like and don't use other ones. You want to call pink jobs, blue jobs, green jobs, and blue jobs.


It's okay, you know, just make it your own. And understand we're not trying to make it rigid, but we're trying to just give it a framework or a box within which you can operate and be creative.


Karen Coyne [00:25:00]:

So we're not going to have weekly KPIs that we're trying to hit.


Tom Bouwer [00:25:05]:

No, it's, it's really funny. In one of our earlier versions, we actually did have a weekly scorecard and we.


Karen Coyne [00:25:12]:

Of course you did.


Tom Bouwer [00:25:14]:

Of course.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:25:15]:

What James and I do and is actually written in the book. But some, some people love it and some people don't. We love to just rate our week on a few things, like how did we show up as a parent this week?


You know, how did we do health wise this week? How's our connection this week? And it's really powerful to allow you that reflection and allow you to say, man, where could I, you know, where could I adjust next week? Or I really crushed it this week and get to celebrate.


Karen Coyne [00:25:42]:

Yes, those are great.


Those are great. Kat Cole, who's the CEO of former CEO Focus Brands, I heard her speak years ago and she, she shared something similar that she does with her partner. Similar to the weekly. No, no. Monthly meeting.


And it's, they go through their calendars and they ask and discuss some of those same points that you just mentioned, Rebecca. And one that I was going to add to that list is like, how did I show up for you as a partner? What could I have done better? You know, and just being able to articulate that right, because there's so much that goes unsaid in a relationship.


Tom Bouwer [00:26:18]:

There really is.


Karen Coyne [00:26:19]:

There really is. And I'm laughing just thinking of when this episode is out and I share it with my significant other who's. He's always accusing me of plucking his, you know, life events from his life as fodder for the podcast. So I know when I share this with him, he's going to give me that look like she's going to say, look, now we've got weekly syncs. We've got quarterly and annuals we need to plan.


Tom Bouwer [00:26:49]:

Yep, yep, that's exactly it. But here's the other thing too, in that weekly sync that I really like is we end the weekly sync with one question. What are you most looking forward to in the next week, so I can make sure that that happens for you. And I love ending our weekly sync that way. We start with gratitude and we end with what can I do for you?


And. And I just, I love that. And we try to do the same with our quarterly syncs and our annual syncs. And we actually have designed a proprietary software to run these meetings with that makes it very easy to keep track of. Well, last week my mindset was a two.


Well, this week it's a nine. You know, I'm doing much better this week or last week I said I wanted to do this and this week I'm going to do this. So there's just a lot of fun ways. And I think, Karen, you were just laughing about your significant other and bringing things home. But I think that laughter is one of the things that sometimes we forget.


We get so busy and caught up in all the craziness that we forget to just take a deep breath and go, wow, I'm human. Sometimes I can really be an idiot. And it's okay. I just laugh about not being perfect.


Karen Coyne [00:28:08]:

Right.


I do think that that gets a little bit easier as we get older. But that's. That's another episode, right?


Tom Bouwer [00:28:16]:

Without a doubt.


Karen Coyne [00:28:17]:

Yeah, without a doubt.


So that's a great place to. To wrap this up. I think you just. That last point that you made about what can I do for you and ending, you know, ending that meeting, looking ahead and also in a way of being of. Of service, that's just really beautiful.


So we will definitely share in the show notes, links to your website and resources so that people can find the book, find the community, and work towards becoming a more cohesive couple. Thank you so much, Tom and Rebecca, for joining us today.


Tom Bouwer [00:28:53]:

Thank you, Karen, for having us.


Rebecca Lockwood [00:28:54]:

Thank you so much for having us.


Karen Coyne [00:28:58]:

Thanks again for listening.


Please follow us on Spotify if you're not already, so you don't miss any future episodes. We'd also love for you to rate the show while you're there. Connect with us on social search, Karen Coyne CFP on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and YouTube. If you have feedback or if we can be of service in any way, please let us know. And now for the standard disclosures.


Opinions expressed are those of Karen Coyne and not those of Raymond James Financial Services or Raymond James securities offered through Raymond James Financial Services Income Member Finracypic Investment Advisory Services offered through Raymond James Financial Services Advisors Incorporated. Clarity Planning is not a registered broker dealer and is independent of Raymond James Financial Services. Karen Coyne, Financial Advisor is located at 12920 Connemar Drive, Suite 202, Higgerstown, MD 21742 phone 3017397. Any opinions expressed by Tom Bouwer or Rebecca Lockwood are not necessarily those of Raymond James. Raymond James is not affiliated with and does not endorse Tom Bouwer or Rebecca Lockwood or The Cohesive Couple. This podcast is for informational purposes only.