One Mans Mission To Starting An Entire Regulatory Body | Ft. Mike Monaghan |

Today's episode, we have Mike Monaghan from Kirkham, England - the business owner of Auto Motivate.

Mike  is a recognized industry professional with over 46 years’ experience in the body repair and insurance industry. Mike’s background was established within the UK, from an apprentice motor engineer to multi-shop owner and ultimately became the founder and CEO of the Motor Vehicle Repairers Association (MVRA). 

The MVRA was the leading representative of collision repairer networks, having a membership of over 2000 businesses in the UK. 

During this time, Mike was the first to create the most advanced and recognized standards for body shops in the UK, back in 1988. That standard became the benchmark for every collision shop for over 22 years and was the forerunner of the internationally recognized PAS125. His membership network was responsible for over £1.3bn in motor repair claims each year. 

The success of MVRA enabled Mike to operate within a unique position in the industry, visiting over 20 countries globally studying the collision industry at all levels. This privileged position allowed Mike to work directly with some of the largest insurance companies and motor manufacturers worldwide. 

Mike has been a recognized expert in the sector for over 30 plus years. With global experience he has built up an enviable position with some of the most recognized names in the industry and has been a leading speaker at many industry events such as ABP, Bodyshop Magazine, NACE, SEMA, CIC & Verifacts conferences. 

Mike now provides business management coaching, training, and consulting support to organizations in the following areas: 

- Mindset Performance Development
- Leadership development and coaching of senior management.
- Process and procedural control systems.
- Insurance company negotiations and presentations.
- Global best practice capabilities and technology solutions.
- Business management, development and realignment strategies.
- Motivational presentations and public speaking.
- Bodyshop networks and the consolidation effect.
- Supply chain consulting projects.


If you are interested in learning more about ClarityCoat, you can visit us here-

Website: claritycoat.com
Facebook: Facebook.com/claritycoatofficial
Instagram: instagram.com/claritycoat_official

Transcript

 This is the Autobody podcast presented by Clarity Coat. We'll get stories and talk to people from all over the industry, painters, body guys, manufacturers, and anybody in between. Let's do it. Welcome to the Autobody Podcast, auto Podcast, body podcast, presented by Clarity Coat. Now here's your host, Adam Huber. 

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. Today we have someone from Across the pond on, which I'm very excited about because we know we've had a slew of international people on lately. Uh, today we have Mike Monahan from Kirkham England on today. He's the business owner of Auto Motivate. Mike, how you doing today? 

I, well, good afternoon, um, for me, and good morning. I'm sure for you, Adam, he's. Thank you for doing great, great to be part of this, and yeah, looking forward to our chat. It's, uh, thank you very much for the invitation. Not a problem. Um, yes it is. Uh, so I'm in central standard time zone, so it's six hours difference between me and you. 

So yeah, you, thank you for taking time outta your afternoon to do this. Hey, no, no problem. No problem at all. So Mike, um, how we normally start this off is, you know, we, we like to ask about, you know, what young Mike was like, how did you get into this crazy industry of the autobody, um, style industry or the car industry? 

So were you always kind of into cars as a kid? Like what kind of motivated you get into the industry? Well, great question Adam. And, and, and the real answer to this is I, I, it's very bizarre for me because my dad throughout his entire life never owned or drove a car. Okay. And yet I think from birth I was a petrol head. 

Oh, nice. And I, one of my earliest memories was my mom, um, saying to me that she almost knew that I was destined to go into the automotive industry when one of my dinky cars, she caught me with one of her nail varnishes painting, one of my dinky cars, . Um, so wherever that came from, I, I don't know. But yeah, I think I was a, a petrol head from birth and probably always at a mechanically minded, um mm-hmm. 

you know, just really, really good with my hands, you know, whether it was fixing my bicycle or whether it was building something. Uh, and that was my world and my fascination. And I think. . Outside of that, I was a speed junkie. Um, there's just no denying that. Um, and as you can see from the pictures on my wall, my, my absolute passion is two wheels. 

Um, so, but yeah, I got into cars, early doors. Um, I just, yeah, just had a love for it and, and I'm 64 years of age now and I still love it as much today as I did then, and that will never change. Um, so yeah, it started, I then, uh, continued in the industry and I was fortunate enough to, uh, become an apprentice motor engineer with Jaguar Lan Rover. 

So I did my, my time served, uh, status, you know, a four year indentured apprenticeship. Um, and I suppose like all young guns, I became ambitious and flirty and decided that I would. Really love to have my own shop. Um, so I did and I got my first shop and that spectacularly failed. Um, cuz I knew how to fix cars. 

I just didn't know how to run a business. Um, and so, but we, we bounced back and eventually I ended up with three body shops, um, uh, and a couple of garages as well, doing the mechanical repairs. Um, and loved it. But my experience grew, uh, Adam and I started to very quickly realize that there was an awful lot of body shops in my hometown that I, I, I simply would not trust to fix a wheelbarrow 

Um, and very quickly from having a very structured and regimented apprenticeship with Jaguar Land Rover. Realized that there was no regulatory framework to stop anyone opening a shop. Um, and so I introduced, uh, these challenges to, to various official bodies and realized that there, there was just no barriers to entry. 

And, and, and in that time, that frustration grew and grew, uh, until 1988 when I thought something has to be done about this. Um, and that was when I formed the Motor Vehicle Repairs Association. And that was to provide a framework for body shops to climb on board and prove their level of professionalism, to demonstrate their skill, their quality, their equipment, their standards, their welding techniques that the whole nine yards. 

Um, . And that really was my entry into the industry, um, at that level. And then I ran the M V RA for over 25 years. Um mm-hmm. , I sold out to a, a fussy 100, uh, corporation. Um, and they completely killed it. But that's a story for another day. Um,  and, well, you never know. We have an hour. Like this could be, that could be a story for right now. 

Well, that that was it. It, it was, it. That was a, that was an incredible journey, Adam, um, to invest 25 years of your life into a business that became internationally recognized. And then you thought you'd done the right thing and you'd reached your exit point, your exit strategy, um, and then realized that this corporate behemoth. 

uh, took the business over and in less than one year, decided they didn't want to play in that field anymore and just closed it down. Wow. Um, and it was, it was devastating. It was truly devastating. Um, but that then moved me on to where I am today. Um, I started to look at everything that our industry has to offer, but also everything that I'd witnessed, uh, in, in those 40 years. 

Um, and whether we were doing kaizen or process or lean or Fast or smart, um, and realized that we've got great techniques and great equipment and everything else, but the one thing that powers and drives it all is.  and we just have not understood the biggest factor that affects performance in the shop, and that's people. 

So I moved into, uh, everything that was sort of around psychology, mindset development, cognitive development improvements, um, and just human performance, understanding culture, mindset, behaviors, attitudes. Um, and that's my world today. So I'm still 100%. Automotive always will be. If you cut me, I will bleed like a body guy, 

Um, and, but you know, there's still a lot of area and a lot of room for help and, and that's the space I occupy today. That's awesome. Okay. Let's rewind a little bit back to your dad not having a car. . Now,  as, as Americans, , like that is just blasphemy . That that is unheard of, isn't it? Right? It is, it is. Um, so like, did you guys live somewhere where there was like easy walkable distances or like great public transportation? 

Like what was the deal there? Oh, right, so this, this, so, so if you take the name Monahan, you don't have to dig too hard to realize that that is Irish. Okay. So my dad was from Ireland, uh, county Sligo in Ireland and from my dad's area. There was no need for cars and his generation. If you had a pony and trap, that was all you needed. 

And I think he carried that throughout his entire life. He wasn't against cars because eventually my mom, who was the, the one who eventually ended up driving and having the cars. Um, so it was great. We did have a car eventually. Um, but as far as my dad was concerned, pony and trap was all that was required. 

And anything else was just the ego . Interesting. That is actually really interesting. Yeah. Um, so what was, what was your guys', uh, what was your guys' first car then? Like I, I, I'm, I'm trying to wrap my head around this because one that's phenomenal in the way that you guys must have just saved loads of money from not having to pay insurance or repair bills or paying gas like, you know, uh, or petrol, you know, like, yeah. 

It's, it's gotta be, uh, a great way to live as far as like saving money. The one time that I went out to, sorry to interrupt the, the one time that I went out to London. Um, so I visited my business partner out there once. Yeah. And one of the things that I realized was obviously you live way north of London, so it might not be the same up there, but you could feasibly kind of live your whole life within a couple of block. 

Oh, within a couple of blocks section. There's lots of different restaurants and grocery places and barbers and everything like that. All within like a couple of blocks, um, of where most people live. So did you guys kinda have a similar setup or what was the deal wherever you travel the world? Um, I think most of the world is that way. 

The one thing certainly within the uk we, we, despite our own criticisms of it naturally, um, because we have that right to criticize our own infrastructure, but when you travel the world, we really do have an incredible transport infrastructure. . Um, so the car is more a luxury than a necessity. Mm-hmm. , but we still love our car. 

Make no mistake, we are still a, a, a lover of the motor vehicle. We, we are and we always will be. Um, so it, it really is. Do, do you technically need one? No, you can get around. We do have a great transport infrastructure from my father's generation. Um, it was more, yeah, he, he had eight miles, just eight miles to go to work, but he would use his bicycle or the bus. 

Um, so yeah, he certainly, I'm sure he did keep the family expenses down with a growing young family, . Um, um, but my mom, uh, I suppose in fairness, um, you, as you reflect in your later years, my, it was probably my mom that was the more ambitious the, the, my dad, my mom wanted to. Explore the world and, and broaden her horizons from her, her, her town, her village. 

Um, so I think maybe my, my appetite to, to grow and travel and see, and see what else was out there probably came more from my mom than my dad. Um, yeah. So yeah, she, she got the car in answer. What was her first car? You would never know what this is in the US at all. Probably not. Um, . So it was a, what was called a standard tent. 

Um, it was developed by British Leland Motors and so who have long since gone, which ultimately then ended up becoming Rover, which then was owned by Honda. And so, and then you move on to the whole GM side of the world. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, it's interesting. So the state.  where I live at South Dakota. As you were talking about your dad, I was sitting here trying to think if it would be feasible or possible to live here and do your daily activities without having a car. 

And I think a lot of that actually depends on where you work and where your um, Kelly now where, so like I have two kids, right? So dropping off my kids every single morning wouldn't be that difficult because they, their school or the daycare is only like a couple of blocks away, right? But my office compared to where my house is, I think is, I've never actually measured it out, but I think it's something like 10 miles away. 

So that in itself isn't necessarily a problem for about si six to eight months out of the year, but when it's negative 54 , it's a little difficult to ride your bike. Right. . And then I'm trying to think like, we do have buses here, right? Um, and I have a friend of mine who actually tried to do this where they tried to live a week with no car in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. 

And the main point of it was that yes, you could do it, but the amount of time wasted in sitting at a bus stop waiting for a bus to come, and then you have to go do all these different routes where you, you didn't want to go. He, he's like, you're, you're on average, you're spending like four times more time just sitting on a bus or waiting for something or, you know, whatever it might be. 

So that's actually an interesting experiment that I would like to try where, you know, for the six to eight months that it's reasonable, um, like, uh, trying that up without a car. Uh, but Sorry, uh, one, just one other quick point on that. We, we've actually had a really tough winter this winter where we've had a lot more snow. 

I think actually this is the most snow we've ever had ever. Like it's record breaking year.  and we have this great bike path from my house, basically to straight downtown where I work. That bike path for the first time ever was completely shut down for like two weeks because it just had like feet of snow there. 

And the equipment to move the snow off of that bike path is just like these tiny little tractors like lawn, lawn, garden, tractors, right? And there's no way that they were gonna move that snow. So there was actually people at one point walking on the road to get where they needed to go because the sidewalks were shut down, the bike pass were shut down. 

And so like all these cars had to just go around them and they were walking because they had no other way to get to where they needed to go. Um, so anyways, what were you gonna say? Well, no, I think that that's great. And this is the, the interesting one. You should say. I mean, obviously I've lived in the us I lived in Colorado and in Chicago, so I, I know how cold it can get here in the uk. 

It's fascinating. We get two inches of snow and minus five and we freak out . I know, because I hear about it every single time. , yeah. Two inches of snow. We grind to a halt. You know, you know this, you stay at home kids, it's dangerous out there, you know, . So yeah, it's right around the, right around the time that I think it was, uh, early December, if I remember right. 

Um, the us, the mid, the Midwest, we, Justin and I were both in Florida. The Midwest got slammed with a, just an apocalyptic type snowstorm, right? And then right at the same time, the UK got hit with, I think it was freezing rain and just like a little bit of ice, or sorry, , and you're exactly right, like the whole city just was, I was like, well, we don't know what to do. 

Hopefully everyone can fend for themselves. , pull down the lid, we're in trouble. . Yep. Yep. Send in the, well your version of the National Guard. I don't know. What's your guys's version of that is . And, and it is that Adam and we, and is to say, this is the, the beauty when you, you do get the opportunity to travel the world, you, you see those different experiences. 

And, and the thing is, I think we sometimes are the, the car is a luxury and we enjoy it and we love it and quiet rightly so. Um, it's, it's a means of transport and we've made a real habit of it. We, we, our love and attachment to it means that we're almost blindsided to, to the alternatives. Yep. You know, um, and you know, we, we all experience the Covid thing and the, the pressures of, of global, the global economy now and. 

And I think it's making people think, do we need a three car family or will two do, or if we've got two, will one do, uh, what are the other? So I think people are beginning to think differently, both either in utilization or or the sheer number. Do we need, do we need to be a four car family? Yeah. So it's just making people think differently. 

I hope we don't give them up iha to otherwise we'd be outta business . Well, I think it'll be a very cold day in hell when before, like both Americans and UK people give up their cars. Like, let's be honest here. Uh, okay, so this starting off an entire regulatory body, uh, what in the world was that like, because I, I mean, most people couldn't even begin to fat fathom starting up a business, which a regulatory body is probably kind of like a business in a, in some ways, but, You're going around and waving your finger at people and saying, no, this is the way that you need to do it. 

And what, so what were the early days of that? Like? Um, this, this is, is this genuinely is a question I have been asked so many times and I am so glad that I was so young and done when I started  because if you asked me to do it again now, I'm not sure I'd take that. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, because I had, I, I really had a strong passion for safety and quality within a repair. 

Um, and because there was no regulatory framework, um, and I did talk to many official bodies and I was just going round the hat rack, no. Nobody either was interested or understood the consequences of poor repair. , you know, and we all know the insurance industry. And usually if there is a, an unsafe repair and it's involved in a secondary collision, collision, are the insurance companies gonna really, are they just gonna deal with as a claim? 

Or are they, are they gonna dig deeper and find out that this wasn't unsafe repair? Um, and so it, but morally, I just thought it was wrong. Um, and so I set out, and it had to be a double-edged sword. It was a case of if you are willing to climb on board with this initiative, there's some things we can do to help you get better. 

So we can show you how to improve your efficiency. We can show you how to make more profit. We can help you with any, uh, debts, bad debts, we can help you with your health and safety. You know, all, so the, the, the flip side win was we give you all of these supporting role benefits, but the price is you have to be open to scrutiny. 

Um, so I engaged some of the, the, the top engineers that I knew in the automotive industry at that time, and we created the business. And in short, and I will really paraphrase this, Adam, so you could join our club for one year and you were going to be independently audited on your business from the front door to the back door, your quality, your cleanliness, your operational safety, your capabilities, your capacity. 

Your staff skills, could they prove the skills, not just experience, actually prove that they had gone through certificated and authentic training. Um, so it was a front door to back door audit of the business. And we did that five times a year, completely unannounced. Wow. Um, and the audit would last for up to six hours, um, from somebody who really knew what they were looking at. 

Uh, and we would extend that out. So we would go on site, we would look at a vehicle that was about to undertake repairs, one midway through repairs, and one that was ready for the hand back. And we checked invoices and purchases to make sure that all the parts you've charged for, you've fitted, all the parts that you've fitted are being fitted correctly and completely to manufacturer's standards. 

So we did all of of that. Now, if you passed all of those tests in year one, then by year two you had access to all the benefits. Um, now to make a, a clear point that I think the listeners also need to understand, Adam, at that time we were the new kids on the block we were creating and we were breaking new ground, but we were also harvesting a huge amount of attention because this, this had never been done before, right? 

Um, so almost the car manufacturers and the insurance companies started to pay attention. Now what are these, what are these guys doing? What are they up to? And why are they up to it? Um, but they realized we were playing with a straight bat. We were doing it for all the right reasons because there are some really good guys out there in the field, um, who've invested. 

Their lives as well as their savings in building a great business. But there are those who are trying to cheat the system. Um, and I felt it was wrong on every level for somebody to be able to repair a car unsafely at the same rewards as somebody who'd invested half a million bucks to try and do it right or more. 

Um, so I try trying to restore and address the balance in that, in that space. Within two years we had over 18 UK insurance companies come to us and say, we like what you're doing. In fact, we love what you're doing, and if we can use your shops, then we will change our entire methodology, um, and on how we supply. 

Our claims product to your businesses. And so you've now, just for a timestamp, Adam. So this was 1990 and suddenly the network of shops were willing to show and demonstrate that they could meet the standard. It was almost like the rain from heaven was falling because we'd had, up to that point, we'd had great customer, you know, you were marketing for your own business, you were finding those customers and, and winning them in all, all the traditional ways of that time. 

Um, and you had went through the seasonal peak effects and the lows and everything else, and then all of a sudden it was as if everything was happening. It was nonstop. There was traffic turning up at your shop, you know, right back in 1990.  and offense for, for, for I'm sure for your listeners, this was almost the, the beginning of drp. 

Mm-hmm. . And so we created, uh, so the first, just for clarity, um, first year you joined, okay. You put your name in the hat and you join and you have to subject yourself to five audits. By year two, you get all the benefits we can do to, to deliver, to help you improve your business in every single way. And the rewards started to come from the insurance companies. 

Then it started to come from the manufacturers saying, okay, we actually realized that even some of our franchised, our dealer shops are not yet up to standard. Interesting. So they started to move their business, even saying, if you are one of these M V R A shops,  then actually we feel, say you may not be carrying the Ford blue oval or you know, but we know it's a good shot. 

So there was a harmony and an understanding between the car manufacturers and the insurers that this was a safe place to send their customers vehicle. Uh, and it moved in that direction. Um, by year three of membership, we started to see and measure, cuz we now had historical data of the shops who'd really progressed and the shops who were still dragging their heels. 

So we were able to introduce so many levels of metrics to either help accelerate the shop, or by now penalize the shop if they were not compliant in support. And I have to say, this happened, Adam, I wish it was happening today. But the insurance company said, we're willing to reward the good shop. So now we started to get rate differentials on labor. 

Mm. So the more you invested, the more efficient you became, the greater the rewards. So this pyramid was being built, uh, until eventually after year five, you would become what was called an M V R A Center of Excellence. Um, and once you achieved center of excellence status, then you were on everybody's radar. 

And that allowed in our marketplace. At that time, Adam, the guy who was the one shop owner suddenly became a two, A three, a four, a 10, and a 15 shop owner, and the MSO was born. Interesting. So that was it. Now, just, just to close, uh, on this, I think this is where my, my world changed. I'm just a, uh, I was a local body shop owner who decided that, that the world needed to change with regard to collision repair, safety, and methodologies. 

Um, and in 1991, as this traffic started to happen, um, I was contacted by a very, very good friend of mine, now, a long term friend of mine, but I didn't know him at the time, was a gentleman by the name of Bruce Cooley who worked for Sherwin Williams. And he'd heard the story and he said, Mike, we've gotta get you across to the us. 

We've got, we've got to try and get this done. And that's when I started to meet many of the, the who today I can regard as close friends, you know, from across the pond. You are going, me coming over to you. , um, and sort of saying we could do this and that the one significant difference was scale, um, the scale of the US compared to the scale of the uk. 

So we, we could move things very quickly over here because we had sort of one set of regulatory constraints. We didn't have federal or county, you know, it was, so it was, and I would say not, it certainly was not simple and, but it was probably easier, um, to, to fast track this. Um, but the fascination was there and, and obviously since then and over the years I've seen those, those adaptations of what the M V R A created. 

with Assure performance and very facts and you know, and you know, the Five Star programs and all the different things that emerged, but they emerged off the back of what the M V R A did in 1990. Interesting. Why do you think that, back when you guys were starting this, why do you think that the insurance companies were interested in making sure that the repairs were done correctly? 

Is it be because a lot of people in this industry have a certain, um, opinion of insurance companies and it is, you know, basically they, the only thing they care about is making more money or, you know, whatever it. So what, what, what was it that you were seeing on their end that they was making them interested in making sure that these repairs were done correctly? 

Oh, Adam, it's, that's such a great question and, and one that I am genuinely happy to answer and maybe try and dispel some of the myths around that. So if we take for a second what I've just said, you, you, you've got a good, let's, let's, for, for ease of this conversation, let's say you've got good shops and bad shops, and we know we've got everything in between. 

Yep. But a bad shop would be charging exactly the same as a good shop. Yep. So the insurance companies felt, hang on a minute. The, the, you know, we, we are, and the, you know, we are being ripped off. We're paying for a great service, but we're not getting it. Yep. Um, and we're seeing our claims costs go north. 

The irony was what we were able to, to do within a few short years was we were able to prove that the very best shops with the best equipment, the best techs and the best efficiencies could actually reduce the repair costs while being better rewarded. Interesting. And we proved that a million times over. 

And so we started to get some, some real traction in that space. Um, and the, the tragedy came without question that the, and Al will be honest with your listeners, it was sadly and tragically insurer greed that undid it all. Again, we had some real forward thinkers, some real forward thinkers at that time. 

Trying to break them all, trying to break with all these old traditions, trying to find better ways. And there was a generation that came around that had the authority and the autonomy to make key decisions, even within a corporate structure. But I think by the time we hit the mid two thousands, it was almost like every decision is taken from the top and everybody else is a minion. 

And it was then, it was about, you know, literally how do we squeeze the pips out of this mm-hmm.  and eventually even the, so by this time, and I think this is something your, your listeners will, will pay attention to and, and find interesting. So let me just get very quickly point a a quick. So when I first started M V R A, In the uk our collision repair market was worth 5 billion pounds a year. 

Okay. So, and there was 26,000 body shots in the UK at that time. By the time M V R A had run for five years, a lot of the bad shots had closed down or gone outta business, or the good guys had consumed them, became MSOs, multi-site and everything else. But that number within five years had reduced from 26,000 down to 7,000. 

Wow. That's crazy. Now, if you look at the UK today, our market repair cap today is still, despite all technologies and advanced technologies and adas and abs and all these things. Our market today is still worth 4.7 billion. Interesting. But today we have less than 3000 shops in the uk. Hey guys. Adam from the podcast. 

I hope you are enjoying today's episode. Just wanted to ask you a quick favor. If the show has brought you value in some way, would you mind giving us a review and sharing the show? It really helps the show get out there. Also, if you are looking to expand the services that your shop offers and you want to do more than collision work, you should really check out our company Clarity Coat. 

Clarity Coat is a peelable paint that allows body shops to offer color changes cheaper than a repaint, while still looking like real paint. You can also offer clear protection that has no edges and is sprayed instead of laid. Unlike vinyl and ppf Clarity Coat can be sanded and polished so you can give your customer the exact look that they are wanting. 

If you are looking to expand your shop services, go to clarity Coat.com and fill out our Become an Installer form. Alright, let's get back to the show. Really? Yeah. Now the, this number that you're pulling, the 4.7 billion Yeah. Is this due to, you know, one of the other things that get talked about a lot is that there's fewer accidents nowadays than there was previously. 

Is that, is that, have, does that play a big role in that number? It is. I think rather than confusing any of your listeners that that's, it's, it's not a simple question cuz there's lots of different anomalies in that. However, I think the best answer I can give, uh, Adam in that is yes, the accident frequency has dropped equally. 

The accident severity has dropped. However, what hasn't is the price of materials has grown significantly. Um, and now with radar, lidar a, you know, so the claims cost is still accelerating enormously. , even though we are repairing less vehicles, but, and this is the big book now. There are less shops. The shops here have never had it so good. 

there are no lean times. Yeah. And that's, and I think what I, I read and understand, and I mean our, our real dilemma right now is over this sort of, maybe this 25 year journey. We are hitting some major, major hurdles right now. And that those, those hurdles are resource, uh, skills. Some of the softer skills, not the hard skills, the technical skills. 

We can pretty much master that. We've been repairing cars for a long time. But the management skills, the leadership skills, you know, the supervisory, the administrative skills, Is not catching up as fast as it needed. And that's because we've not addressed it adequately for 20 years. Yep. I find it fascinating that we readily accept that we can take a junior on and take him through his apprenticeship for maybe three or four years. 

And then we've got a guy who's been in the shop for 20 years and suddenly he's getting a little bit frustrated, a bit long in the tooth, so we don't wanna lose him. So we offer him, we offer him an extra couple of thousand more, uh, to keep him, but we promote him to manager. He has never been a manager. He has never been trained to be a manager. 

He doesn't understand human dynamics, conflict management, recruitment, you know, process, you know, so he's almost like thrown to the lions despite his experience. So we now have an aging demographic. The average age of a technician. Now Adam in the UK is 47. . Wow. Yeah. You know, and we're not bringing in the new blood. 

So we've changed all of the cost silos within the shop. You know, so when you have this, you know, the 16 year old, the 19 year old, the 21, 24, 27, who'd become a master tech and you know, so that, and you could shift and move your shop according to skill and revenue. Now we've loaded, we've loaded the cart to the heavy end. 

Um, so it, it's creating some real, some real pressures. And one of the biggest pressures we have right now is resource. Yeah. The, there's some really interesting parallels between, uh, mechanics and the body shop world. Yeah. And this is coming from someone who, who I used to wrench on cars as a profession and. 

One of the things that was told to me, and if you look back in history, was something kind of similar to what you're talking about right now. There used to be mechanic shops everywhere. Yeah. And the, your, your skill wasn't necessarily dependent upon how well you repaired a car. It was actually more about just like how you hustled and how hard you worked and everything like that. 

Right. Uh, because everyone could do, there were so many people that could do your job, um, because everyone could change spark plugs, everyone could change oil. Like, you know, it wa it wasn't really necessarily skill-based. Um, however, the, what ended up happening was when computers came around, all of a sudden it just filtered everyone out of it in the, in the late, let's just say the late eighties. 

Now you had guys that were like, ah, yeah, all these, these computer systems, I don't know what's going on. Like, just blah, Baba Baba, right? Well then , the, the industry progressed, but the people did not, their technical skills did not. And so it started just to naturally funnel and filter down into, started weeding out shops that, you know, there just wasn't enough old cars around for them to stay busy, blah, blah, blah. 

Um, and it's interesting that now with the M V R A, you kind of had something similar, which is, you know, we, we are setting the bar here, and if you're not gonna hit that bar, you're gonna be filtered out of it. Now there's a lot of people that could argue whether or not that's the right or wrong way to do it. 

Um, but the other thing that's kind of, I think is kind of interesting that plays a role today, but maybe not necessarily back then, is that with mechanic shops, if you don't repair something correctly, you usually find out about it. Pretty, pretty fast. If you don't rebuild an engine correctly, like within the first couple of startups, you're gonna know if you messed up or not. 

But if you don't repair an accident correctly, it could go hundreds, thousands of miles years without ever being being caught necessarily. And the only way that the average consumer would ever know that something isn't repaired correctly as if it wasn't painted correctly, so the paint flies off, or if there's water intrusion, or if rust all of a sudden bubbles up after a couple of years, but at that point, most the cars usually changed hands or it's gone somewhere else. 

Or you know, people just chalk it up to old age or whatever. So what I find really interesting is if you don't have these checkpoints early or in the actual repair process, it's easy for you to kind of slide underneath the radar until there's another accident. And then when a crush zone hasn't been repaired correctly, That the only time you get penalized there's five years down the road when you've had another accident. 

And the, the difficult part about the body shop industry is there's no, uh, what's the best way to put it? There's no real reoccurring revenue from the same customer unless you have just the worst driver ever who's just getting into constant little fender benders in parking lots, just all the time, year after year, right? 

At which point their insurance has probably filtered them out from driving a car because they're making so many claims. But what I'm getting at is normally the average person's only having an accident like once every couple of years or a couple of times in their life. So the chances of that, that mistake ever getting caught is just so absurdly low. 

Um, so I just find it so interesting that as, as mechanics. Normally there is a lot of pressure and accountability to doing it the right way, because if you don't, if you don't repair brakes correctly, , you're gonna know pretty quickly if you don't do it right and, you know, you'll just kill someone straight away. 

But in, in an accident repair, you could go thousands of miles, tens of thousands of miles or years without ever having the consequence of not repairing that correctly. Does, does that all kind of make sense to you? 100%. Make sense? And there's, there's a few key elements in what you've just said, Adam, that, um, I, I wouldn't be aggressive in a say Charlie, but I, I think there was, I mean, and I, I had many battles, as you can imagine, when shots were accusing, either myself personally or the M V R A for, for affecting their business and their livelihoods. 

Mm. Um,  and you know, that was not what I was intentionally trying to do, but what I would not accept is, you know, how many people have to die because you couldn't repair it. Well, you know, because to your point, no, we may never know, we may never know what was the cause of the accident, but the one thing you can be certain of, if it isn't repaired safely and it is involved in a secondary collision and the airbag doesn't go off or it didn't steer, or the brakes didn't work, you know, these are the things that were born of. 

Incompetence, not maliciously, but born of incompetence. And, and I, I don't wear that. At the end of the day, every single shop in the UK had the chance to prove their validity in repairing.  and it was to address that one fundamental issue. If you are going to open a cosmetics business or a surgery business and everything else, you know, a dental practice, you know, I'm sure as hell want to know that you've been trained before you start pulling things out my mouth, you know, , it's, you know, so I don't, if we are ever going to be recognized as an aspirational industry, a truly professional industry, then we have to put our warehouse in order. 

Yeah. Uh, and that's what I was trying to do. Did you have, can you think off the top of your head of a shop, you obviously don't have to name them, but they were like the redheaded stepchild where they did everything wrong. They, they couldn't repair a car correctly if they wanted to. . They had the ambition and the want to improve, and they did over time and invested a lot of energy into doing that. 

So many, so many. And, and what a great question, Anna, because this, this is, this is where all the excitement came from under the pyramid system that we built. You know, because they could join, they had that appetite. They say, look, I may not be the finished article yet, but I really want to be okay. We could paint them a picture for what that future could look like. 

We will then give them the advice, the guides, shop layout, floor layout, equipment, you know, what you're gonna do, how to train your techs, where are you gonna train your techs. So we, we would guide them holistically to become the best they could. And this, this was not about whether you as a 40,000 square foot shop or a 6,000 square foot shop. 

It was about just being brilliant at what you do. Because everybody has their relative customer audience. It may well be that you didn't need insurance or d r P type, where you may just do retail, have your local shop, your local business and grow it the traditional old-fashioned way, but they should still be done safely. 

Um, and yeah, there was an awful lot of shops who a lot of shops even today can still turn out a shiny piece of metal, but it ain't safe. Um, so we introduce welding quality standards and things like that. Now, direct answer you to a question I, I won't name, but I can tell you, you don't have to look too far in the UK market today, who can see some of our most leading shops today? 

We're one of the MBRs one shop mom and pop businesses who now are 16 site or 24 site MSOs. Wow. You know, that's crazy. They've gone from maybe a $300,000 turnover to a $45 million turnover. You know, and that's cuz their, their passion, their de, their determination, uh, their vision, whatever you want to call it, their ambition was just, yeah, th this is my world and, and I want to be good at it. 

Um, and so it, it was a game changer. Um, today, many other bodies have superseded what M V R A did. Uh, M V R A ended in 2009. Um, tragically as I say, but it was, um, but others have championed that course since. Um, . I don't think it's, it's as good. Um, and I'm probably bound to say that, but, but I genuinely know it isn't. 

Um, but we didn't let, we didn't let the ball drop. You know, we still have high regulated standards here. The insurance companies will still only direct work to recognize and authenticated shops. Um, and it's not just about price. It, it's, it's safety and quality first and the price comes next. Um, but now the better shops are better rewarded. 

Um, so, you know, so a lot of what we laid the groundwork for, um, is still true today. Uh, do you think that, I'm trying to think of my question here. The, the soft skills that you're talking about. Yeah. Um, . I think that in service-based businesses doesn't matter what the, what the service is, this is something that's sorely lacking. 

Uh, because what you kind of pointed out earlier is people in service-based businesses tend to get promoted because they do their job well. Which on one hand, you know, you should be rewarded for that. But you're stepping into a role in a position that your technical skills are no longer what is necessary for you to be awesome at that. 

It is your soft skills, it's your leadership, it's your motivation. It's um, it's how you improve other people. And it's really unfortunate say this, but most of the time the people who are really good at their job are usually make the worst teachers, um, because they get so frustrated with looking at another individual and just saying, why don't you get this? 

Like, just, just do it. Just just do it and do it faster and do it better, and. , what is, um, uh, and I feel, it seems like now you're heavy into that world where you're really championing how to improve these soft skills. But what are some of the things that you have seen that the body, the, the auto body industry really needs to be focusing on as far as like materials to read or classes to take and stuff like that, to really take them to that next level, Adam, this is my, my, if you will, my new quest, or, you know, that I champion it and you're a hundred percent right. 

And, and, and I, I will say sometimes it breaks my heart because I, I was, you know, as you say, you, you've had some great texts, great techs, and, and vastly experienced, and they do either get the promotion and everything else and no, they're not, they're not designed or equipped. They're designed and equipped to repair cars. 

They're designed and equipped to flow cars. , but suddenly the, as I say, they're thrown into this, this arena, um, you know, where it's far more political, it's far more sensitive. You're dealing with the human animal and emotions and behaviors, uh, and performance. And this is, these are you suddenly you're stepping into an arena where you were their friend yesterday, you were their work buddy yesterday. 

Today, you know, you are marking their homework, uh, and it's an uncomfortable transition. And it's almost like we just pluck them from one and throw them into the other, and they're just not prepared. So what I do see Adam, in, in, in direct answer to your question is, is that we, we don't plan these things well enough across the industry. 

We don't anticipate them. We don't have a, a strategy for this. It's almost in, instead of responding to a known set of parameters, we just react to the moment, oh my God, we've got a crisis. Boom, do this. And it's almost like a lose win, lose scenario. You know, you, you lose because you take one of your best guys off the floor. 

He wins for a short term cuz he got the pay lift. But the minute he's now out of his known comfort zone, he loses because he now feels like a failure. His, his teammates don't admire him anymore. In fact, they criticize him, they mock him, you know, and eventually one of your best guys leaves and worse than leaves you, he may even leave the industry. 

Mm-hmm. . And, and that's the tragedy that w that has to be addressed. And this is no silver bullet, quick fix. , we've not been doing this well for over 20 years. So there is, this is not, you know, pull out the magic one time. This is right now, you have to have a strategic plan for moving and transitioning and developing your people, not just in the technical arena. 

You've gotta look at the whole tree. Which branch do they want to go down? Which branch are they equipped to go down? Have we done any of the psychometrics to find out what their aptitude and attitude is to these things? So it's a time in our industry with technical advances in the product, if we don't use the same technical advances in our assessment of our human resource, we'll continue to make mistakes. 

It's time for our industry to bring science into this arena. And realize that we're moving from a craft-based industry into a highly technical industry. Yeah. Uh, a personal story of mine, and I've, I've told this story before on this podcast. I'm sure people are just craving to hear it again, but , one of the, um, so I, this is when I was a diesel mechanic, but one of the shops I worked at was just a, it was just this very large construction company that just had this massive fleet of equipment that needed to be taken care of. 

Right. Well, just their semi trucks alone. The semi trucks, um, or Lori's, as you guys call 'em, they had 85 of those. Yeah. And that wasn't even beginning to talk about how many excavators, payloaders, and everything else that they had. Right. And I was in charge of all the, um, semi trucks, uh, the 85 were mine to take care of. 

And my shop manager was a guy by the name of Peanut and. Peanut, exactly what we were talking about, got into his shop manager role simply because he was the oldest seniority type dude. But the guy didn't even have a clue how to manage multiple people. Had absolutely no idea. He had no idea how to do paperwork. 

He had no idea how to, just had zero idea how to manage people in the first place. Now, he was a great dude. Yeah, he was a, you could tell the guy was trying, but he had a problem with drinking. I don't know if he ever, I, he probably doesn't know this to this day, but there are several times where we knew the guy was drinking before he came to work, because the pressures on him were just so stupidly unrealistic. 

Right. And the the interesting part is, is that is a clear cut case of, well, you've been here the longest and you're the one that knows the most, so you're just, now you're just gonna lead these people and. , you're gonna manage them and divvy out jobs and everything like that. Ndq is just so poorly equipped to do it, and by no fault of his own. 

Now this, this memory of mine will live on with me for the rest of my life because it's a clear indication of a company trying to fake their way into fixing the problem. Um, at one point the situation got so bad that the company decided to hire a, uh, some sort of like, um, oh, it was a consultant, right? To put processes and procedures into place. 

And one of the things that she did was she asked everyone to, um, come into the office, have an hour long meeting and sit down as to what they thought was wrong with the shop and what needed to improve. And I'm like, yes, finally we're moving forward. Like we are, we we're gonna figure out some of these inconsistencies that need to get figured out. 

And so I actually took it upon myself to kind of talk to a couple of people, got on a notepad and started writing down what everyone kind of thought was the, the worst areas of the shop and what needed the most improvement. I'll never forget this mic. I went to go sit down into the meeting and we had a little bit of chit chat and she goes, okay, so you know, let me know what you think needs to be improved in the shop. 

I pull out my notepad, set it down, and she goes, she started laughing. She's like, oh my God, you have an entire notepad. And I was like, and at that moment I realized, okay, this is all a farce. Like it, why would, why would you make fun of, or why would you criticize someone that's actually done some of your job? 

Someone who's in the lower ranks of and talk, went through the effort of talking to people, figuring out what needs to be done, and then you criticize that person for trying to go above and beyond what their role is and trying to fix these things.  and it was so amazing because it, it was at that moment that we were like 72 hours into this whole experiment, right? 

It was at that moment that I instantly went into FU mode and said, I'm not gonna do shit. Like everything that you guys are trying to do, I'm actually going to go the opposite direction and I'm going to just absolutely just railroad everything. And it, that's not the right attitude to have, right? That is the exact opposite attitude. 

I should have checked my ego, but I was young. I was like, I was like 22, 23 at the time. Something like that. But it's just, the reason why I tell that story is that for multiple different reasons, one higher elevating your most senior guy in the most technical, um, guy that you have in your shop can work. 

But that's a rare individual. That's a really rare individual to have someone who has both the technical skills and the soft skills to be able to do that job. And number two, When you have younger people in your industry that a lot of times do want these better working environments, don't sit there and be like, let them talk about what they think is what is needed in the shop. 

They might have a whole different viewpoint and have a fresh set of eyes that you've never thought about and you need to check your own ego and say, man, shit, okay, maybe this 20 something year old guy actually has some good points, is what he's saying real. Uh, what's your, what's your thoughts on that? 

Wow, I'm Adam. You know, sometimes my, my blood runs cold when, when I hear stories like that because the, I know this almost might sound like textbook 1 0 1, uh, and I, I've consulted for many, many body shops o and businesses over the year, uh, and.  it is that, you know, I'm not, I'm a consultant myself, so I can't be antico consultant, but it, it's what you can, at the end of the day, the, the early steps of transition, it has to come, have to come from the top, um mm-hmm. 

and the business owner. If things aren't working, it has to be clear where he is going, what he wants. And if you are ever going to address a team, you've gotta really understand the, the fundamentals of human nature. If you wanna change something, all your team are gonna be going, that's okay, but what's in it for me? 

Yep. You know, so you've gotta start from there. You know, you've gotta make them feel that what it is you are asking of them in this change cycle is gonna bring real benefits to them. If not, why change? And if you do not get them on board, you will find them pushing you. They will find every way to undo your strategy. 

They will find every way to undo your performance metrics. You know? So it is all of that. So we, we get too many things wrong. The other side of that is, you say this promotional escalation is a case of we have to, do, we really do, Adam, have to do much more. We've gotta find out what are their hopes and dreams? 

What do they want? Is this the job? What does the job mean? And I have, I have Adam many, many times had these conversations with business owners and say, well, okay, so define for me what this role of senior manager is. Mm-hmm. . And they can't, yep. They'll take a stab in the dark at it, but they cannot define it. 

So I say, so, so what you gonna do? You're gonna take this guy, your best guy, and you could have been, you're gonna put him into this role that you cannot define. . So this is now a moving target for him to hit. He doesn't know what good looks like, so you're gonna measure him every single day. And if on that day you're not in the best of mood, you're gonna judge him accordingly and you're gonna fail him, you know? 

And he's gonna go, what did I fail? And you're gonna go, I don't know, but you just did. You know, tomorrow we'll move it again. You know? Yep, yep. I'm gonna keep you so on your fricking toes, you're gonna wonder what the hell is happening every day. And you kill and burn out your best talent because they can never hit that target cuz they don't know where the target is. 

You're, and what you're referring to, and I'm sorry if I'm kind of maybe putting some pieces of the puzzle together. You're talking about KPIs or key performance indicators, like, okay, what does winning look like to this person? Can we agree on that? What does bad look like? What? What is it? What does success look like in this role? 

Wow, okay. I I'd make one key point there, Adam. Yeah. There's two levels, as you should. It's your podcast. There's two levels. There's two levels. And it, and they, they are synergistically. It really is that thing that, you know, yeah, I've gotta know what it is you want as the business owner so I can hit that target. 

But I need you to understand how I feel, what I need from this, this experience. And it isn't always about the paycheck. It's about, and I need to feel valued. I need to feel. And as we move forward, Adam, in this industry, and we're changing the demographic and the age, and we're bringing in, you know, the Gen Y and the Gen Z type, you know, the, they, our industry, Adam, maybe this, this is not a good answer, but our industry stereotypically. 

from the old school of thinking was if we were under pressure or we needed to hit keep those KPIs, it was work longer, harder, and faster. Yep. Those days are done. They're done. They are done in anybody who thinks they're not done wake up. Those days are done. You know, this is absolutely, today we have got a new generation who, and who are saying, if you think I'm gonna be doing 54 hours a week, think again. 

Yeah. You know, and I ain't working weekends and I want more holidays and I want, you know, and then the old guards start going, well that's not acceptable. You know, we can't hit this. Then change your processes, change your methods, change your business model and think about changing your people, because at the end of the day, it's the ne, if you are thinking long-term, if you're thinking, where is my business going in the next 30 years? 

Start planning it now. Yeah, cuz it's all well and good to say, oh well, you know, these kids are lazy and, um, they don't work hard. And all these other things, which, sorry, from my point of view and from what I've seen it is, is it's very untrue. It's just that they have different goals in life and sometimes, you know, you don't agree with that. 

But here's my, here is something that I've pointed out to several older business owners. Okay, go ahead. Don't agree with it. What are you gonna do in 20 years when you have no workforce, like it or not, they set what you have to do so you can, you can be as upset about it as you want to. And that's not to say that you need to get, if you have a lazy Gen Z person, guess what? 

There was lazy people back in the seventies too. You fired him. Amen. . They're like, you fired them like you just got rid of them. Y not everybody. Is a hard worker just end up like that's, there is lazy people in every single generation. It's so funny to me how, uh, and I don't mean to include you in this, but older generations of people look back on everything with rose color colored glasses and say, well, everyone worked hard. 

Oh really? Hippies weren't a thing. Like, are you, are we really gonna say that hippies weren't a thing because that was in the sixties and seventies? Which correct me if I'm wrong, that's when, that's your generation or the previous generation to you. Like back in the forties we had, we had guys that didn't wanna go to war, they were scared to go to war, and guess what we called them? 

Lazy and cowards and all these other things. Right? So like laziness has always been a part of the conversation and get, you just, you fired those people and you moved on. You found people who were good and hardworking and then you worked to get them to what your standards in your business were. Now, unfortunately, or unfortunately, the, the people who are dictating what those standards are is kind of flowing in the other direction. 

And that's a fact. That's a, now I agree with you. I mean, I, I, I don't need to echo what you've just said cuz she said it so well, and the thing is, you, if you are, we, we, we don't think, you know, our industry is, is, is largely and has been conditioned to reacting , you know, because if I lost the guy, all I needed to do was put an advert and another guy who was slightly pissed off would cross the road and bring his toolbox with him. 

You know, so my downtime was barely one day, you know? Yeah. And so tho those times have gone. So, but you're right. The, the motivation, the engagement, the inspiration that for the next generation still ha you have to create the environment. , this environment of psychological safety where they feel open to challenge, they feel open to question. 

And a lot of the old guard don't like to be challenged or questioned. So we're creating a brand new world, you know, we are creating a brand new world and if, if we ignore that, you will be one of the casualties. Cuz to your absolute point, if you, you may wake up one morning and you don't have a workforce. 

Mm-hmm. , one of my, I've said this before in the podcast, but one of my downfalls, uh, or I don't think it's a downfall. Um, and on the outside looking in, other people say, it's not a downfall until I'm the person asking you why, why are we doing it this way? Why, why do you guys do it that way? What's, what, what's the reasoning behind this process? 

Why have you tried it this way? Why is it that we can't try it this way? Blah, blah, blah. I can't tell you how many old people, older people, sorry, just look at me and say, well, that's just the way we've always done it. Okay. But like, can we try it this way? Because like, I don't see, I'm not seeing from my viewpoint right now why we can't try it that way. 

We're not gonna lose hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, blah, blah, blah. Like, and it could very well be faster. Well, no, that's just, that's just never the way we've done it. And I can't tell you how many times that's gotten me into trouble, both with law enforcement officers, with neighbors. I love the question why? 

Because the reason why I love the question why is generally you can only ask why about two or three times and then people get really frustrated and they go, well, that's just the way it's always been. And the reason why they say that is because all of a sudden you have now helped them uncover the fact that they don't actually know the reason why they do that. 

The, they, they, they have no idea. They have no basis for it. That's just the way it is. I think so. And this is the, I mean, this is including in my businesses. Yeah. I have people, I, if, if someone asks me something, why two to three times and I can't get past a third? Why? And I'll, I'll, it sets off a little alarm. 

I'm like, shit, I actually don't have any idea why we do it this way.  . And then I get mad at myself and I'm like, you idiot. How did you not, how did you not see this? You didn't prepare well enough for this one. I didn't prepare well enough. And then I just tell them like, shit. That's a good question. You know what? 

Maybe we should reevaluate this . Gina, Adam, you've triggered something in my mind during that, that part of the conversation. And I dunno whether this will come across well enough on a podcast. But many years ago, uh, and I stand by this, I made a presentation across your side of the pond. Um, uh, I think it was a SEMA or a NACE event. 

Um,  and I put up a slide, um, and I divided the, the whole of the industry. And this is wherever I've traveled in the world, the whole of the industry. And I know it's a generalization, but so forgive me for that, but I think it hits the mark. I think 5% of all body shops in any country get it. They do. 

They're good at the math, they're good at the process. They're good. They know where they're going, where they're heading, what's required 5%. Just get it. And I call those the polar bears. They're, they're just sole predatory animal. They know what they're doing. They know how to hunt and they go do it. And then I said, there are 15% of shops, which I categorized as walls. 

Um, they'll hunt in. , they sniff the breeze, they see what's going. They're agile. They're capable of bringing down a kill. They're, they're good at what they do. They are really good at what they do. Um, but they don't always just do quite enough. Mm-hmm.  to be that ultimate predator. And then there is 25% of the shops and 25% of the shops, um, go. 

They're merry way. I, I call them the dogs, um, in, in, they're loyal, loving, faithful, you know, kind nice, but they're static. They're not really going anywhere. And then tragically there's 55% of the market I call chickens and they just run around. Like they've had their heads cut off clicking and wondering what the hell's going on in the world and why it's everybody else's fault. 

Um, that's actually really not all that surprising to me. Yeah. So I have. Been in business for myself since I was 25 and I'm 33 now, and there is a shocking amount. What those numbers that you kind of outlined basically kind of falls in line with how many business businesses succeed nationally. Doesn't matter what the business is after five years, this, it's a really small percentage of businesses, doesn't matter what it is that actually succeed past five years. 

So, but those ones that do succeed, uh, they, they actually start to even get broken out even more into these smaller percentages of people that, of those businesses that just continuously keep growing, grinding, and, and growing. Right? Yeah. And what's so interesting is I've talked to so many different business owners across so many different aspects of business that they. 

The last 15 years, let's say pre 2020, the last 15 years were relatively, well, let's go back, let's just say a decade. 10, 12 years. The, the last 10, 12 years were easy there. There was n in the marketplace. There was no global, national, just squeeze. And it was gonna just, it was, it was gonna take you for everything that it was worth, right? 

It was relatively easy. And for a lot of business owners, this recession that we're in right now, globally, is the first time they've ever gotten punched in the face repeatedly, over and over again. This is the first time they've gone up against Mike Tyson in the ring, and all they had to do was to keep their wits about them and put their guard up and just tick, blow after blow, after blow, after blow. 

And those five, I would probably argue, those five to 15% that you were talking about are the ones that. They say to themselves, okay, we gotta batten down the hatches. We've gotta just, we just gotta, we just have to take these blows because guess what? After every recession you come out of it. Um, normally a recession on average takes about three years or so ish. 

Like something like that, depending on the severity. And then you, and then you have a year and then two years of like, you're kind of like, oh shit, we might be okay. We might be getting out of this. Like, we're, we're good. And then all of a sudden it just takes off like a fricking rocket. Just it, it globally. 

That's usually the way that it goes. Would you say that you're in agreement or disagreement or No, there's a strong agreement with that. I mean, say, and, and you add into to that mix that we've, we globally have come through covid and, and that's added a dimension to our thinking and to the, to the economics of any business that we were ill prepared for. 

Yep. Um, so. I wrote an article some time ago in one of our UK industry magazines, uh, and it was, and the title was A Perfect Storm. So I've been in this industry 47 years, Adam, and we are experiencing now the most combined set of unique circumstances. We've had variants and, you know, uh, bits of shortages here, parts issues and everything else, but not this perfect storm where we have labor shortages and skills. 

We have part shortages and skills. You know, we're experiencing what we're gonna do with green parts. We're doing all these things. We're got, we've got changing technologies. We've got a shrinking vehicle park, you know, and you look at all of those things, claims, costs, you know, and as you say, we, we also, if you look at the economics of that environment, so, uh, your words, and happy to use your words, so you see. 

The consumer now dangerously having to push their deductible higher and higher and higher and higher, and then all of a sudden, God forbid there is an incident and I can't afford by deductible. Yep. Yeah. You know, so now we start le losing those shops, that would've would've been one of our repairs now starts to look under the arches to find somebody who can just maybe get it going again. 

You know? So we've opened the door to risk one more time because we, you know, we have this perfect storm. So where I do wholeheartedly echo your statement is, is that the, the real top guys are still gonna have a. They're more adapt, sensing it, and they've prepared for it, or they can adjust more rapidly to the changing environment. 

Now, for those who can't adjust, love the jungle, those who cannot adapt to the environment ain't gonna make it. And those that do the survivors come out stronger every time, you know? So, yeah, I agree with you wholehearted. Uh, we unfortunately have to kind of wrap this up, but on that point, the final point that I would like to make is, I think we're coming, I think we're coming out of it now. 

It, it might not feel like, it might not seem like it, but I think this winter was the last real cold winter that we're gonna have. I think that this, we're in the transition period now, where this first, this next year, two years is gonna be, things are gonna start kind of creeping along and doing okay. , but I think after year two from now, which maybe hopefully I still do this podcast so I can reference back to it, but , um, I think what you see in 2025 is we're all gonna be sitting here talking about how the global market is exploding and interest rates are going down and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

That your guys' pound is like so much worth, so much more than the dollar now. Like, because you guys took a beating when it came to the conversion rate, um, here actually not that long ago. Um, and I know Brexit probably didn't help you guys really  whole lot with that, but um, yeah. Mike, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to do this today. 

Um, really appreciate your insights. Fascinating talk. And uh, where can people find. More about you or follow along with you to get more of this just great information. I, uh, I, LinkedIn is is one of my main channels, but I'm also on, uh, Facebook, um, with auto Motivate. So LinkedIn or Facebook, uh, you'll find me there or I've got my website, uh, as well. 

So you'll, you'll find me those. Adam, it's, it's been, it's been a joy and I'm sure, you know, I hope the listeners have enjoyed it and, and will be able to take something from it cuz it is a subject that we obviously both care passionately about and we could probably spend forever on the subject. But I would, I would like to say, Adam, one last thing cuz it resonates with what you've just said and that is, I am telling my clients here and now that if they get through this and they do the right things now, I don't think there has ever been a time where there will be a better future. 

We are gonna be fixing cars. Hey, for a long time to come. Whether it's hydrogen, ev, whatever it happens to be or whether it's fossil fuel power, we're still going to do it. We've, we've got a phenomenal future in this industry. This is the time to capitalize on it. Totally agree. Because the one thing they haven't figured out how to safety guard yet is human stupidity. 

There you go. . . Awesome. Thanks Mike so much, Adam. Appreciate your time. It's been a joy. Thank. You've been listening to the Autobody podcast presented by Clarity Coat. Our passion is to talk to and about anyone in the industry, from painters, body guys, manufacturers, and anyone in between. We hope you've enjoyed the show. 

Make sure to like rate and review and we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, visit us@claritycoat.com and find us on Facebook and YouTube at Clarity Coat. See you next time on the Autobody Podcast.