STEM Untapped

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí - Founder of Coders of Colour

February 08, 2022 STEM Untapped Episode 1
STEM Untapped
Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí - Founder of Coders of Colour
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode the students are going to introduce you to Tolúlọpẹ́ who is the founder of an award winning organisation Coders of Colour. This organisation has the aim of getting under-represented people of colour into the technology industry, and providing them with an opportunity to experiment with coding in a safe and accessible space. 

If you know a school or group of students who would like to interview female role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

If you know a group of students who would like to interview one of our role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

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Connect with us on LinkedIn @STEMUntappedCIC
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Intro 00:00

Hello, and welcome to the Stem Untapped Podcast series. We're delighted that you could join us. Research from Microsoft reveals that having a role model was one of the most effective ways to prevent girls falling out of love with STEM subjects. As all partners at Untapped are female scientists, and many of our clients and associates are female scientists, we felt that we had a unique opportunity to map students with a variety of role models of their choice. This way, students can ask the questions that are most important to them, allowing them to gain access into a diverse array of different STEM careers. In this podcast, the students are going to introduce you to Tolúlọpẹ́, who is the founder of an award winning organisation Coders of Colour. This organisation has the aim of getting underrepresented people of colour into the technology industry and providing them with an opportunity to experiment with coding in a safe and accessible space. 

 

Student Interviewers 01:05

What got you interested in STEM? 

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 01:07

I think I was interested in STEM before I knew what STEM was. I've always been interested in, I just had like a natural inkling as a child to take things apart and put them back together. But because of my parents at home, I was scared that I would not put them back together correctly and get into a lot of trouble if I like tried to take the toaster apart, and then stop the toaster from working. So I kind of let that live there and didn't really explore that until I found out about software engineering. And I found out that I could take things apart and put them back together digitally and it stays on my computer, my computer doesn't break and nothing breaks. And I was like I love this, this is great. I can keep doing all this engineering stuff. I was always fascinated by phones and like just looking at screens, “how does this work and why does the text change? This is so cool.” This is you know, I can remember this vividly at four years old or something. And I didn't get introduced to the term STEM until I must have been in my early teens. So I would say just a natural inkling unfortunately, nothing spectacular. 

 

Student Interviewers 02:12

What subjects did you take in school? 

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 02:14

So I took 11 GCSEs. I took triple Science, ICT and then like everything else that I kind of had to pick between and I picked History over Geography. For a levels, I actually picked those quite early on, I think I was maybe 13/14. So at my school, I was in gifted and talented, and we had trips in Year 9 to Oxford and Cambridge just to meet people. I knew what things were like. I think it was like it on our trip to Cambridge. And we just had an opportunity to speak to someone who knew a lot about the process. I think they lived in admissions generally. But you know, loads of people had different subjects that they wanted to do. And she was she was able to answer everything, which was great. And I was like, “Okay, I know, I want to do computer science. How do I work backwards to there?” Because, unfortunately, fortunately, whatever, I didn't have people around me who studied it, you know, I'm still the only one of my friends that studied it. And I'm still like very much the only one which is, you know, it is what it is. I had no role models, no one to talk to you. So this was like my one opportunity to ask, “What did these top unis want people to study?” Because I knew that I wouldn't study Computer Science beforehand. So it wasn't just like a straight walk in the park. And the woman said Maths is definitely required, Further Maths (the A-Level on top of Maths), and Physics is something that most people take because it's good for things like electronics, and so on. So that was three A levels already picked out for me. I said, “Well, here we go”. And I really liked French, I really love spoken languages. And so I said yeah, I'll take French as well. And then I moved schools for Sixth Form. And my Sixth Form said Maths and Further Maths count as one option. So if you've picked that you need to pick another AS and back in the day, we had a AS and A2s (and AS is like half of an A2). On one hand, I was like, “Oh, I can take French all the way. That's great”. But I also have to pick something else. And Chemistry was a breeze for me. I don't know, I just enjoyed it and I got all of the equations and stuff. So I said, that's something that I can take as an extra that's not going to weigh me down. 

 

Student Interviewers 04:24

What did you dislike about your STEM subjects? And what barriers did you have to overcome while doing these subjects? 

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 04:31

Okay, physics was just like a big headache. It just, you know, it kind of wears you down. And then you finish it, and you move on, unless you do engineering or something, right, and you never leave it. To be honest, it was, aside from Physics, which in general is not taught well, teachers really affected my subject. So like I loved Chemistry, right, and I had this teacher who was so sweet and like I just did what I was meant to do and I found things quite natural to me. And she was just like, “wow, like, please take it for A level, like this is great”, you know, and, and that positive encouragement is what led me to, you know, when I was faced with that decision, take it. I never apart from Physics, I never woke up and was like, “I don't like this subject” kind of thing.

 

Student Interviewers 05:19

Can you tell us a bit about how you saw of STEM subjects when you were our age? And how you believe those perspectives have now changed since then?

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 05:27

I had a natural inkling that they were important, and they were great. And they were fun, you know. But because I liked Computer Science, I wasn't, you know, waking up in the morning, like, Physics is the blood that goes through my veins and that I need to do this. I was more like, Okay, this stuff is kind of interesting. When we did Astro when we did Medical Physics, that was so interesting, because I was like, I know how an MRI scanner works. I know how an ultrasound works, you know, stuff like that was cool. But it was never something that I was like that’s just amazing. Now I look back, little did I know the matrix multiplications that I was doing in year 12, were going to be integral to everything I do, from day to day now.

 

Student Interviewers 06:15

Can you tell us a bit more about Coders of Colour?

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 06:18

It's an award winning Not For Profit, aimed at getting the next generation of people. So like I said, like you into tech through coding workshops. So we do workshops with your programmes. And it's really about educating the next generation of people. We've done loads of different things. I mean, we've changed quite a bit through the pandemic, but for obvious reasons, we used to do programmes in person. So like, the last one we did in person, was a two week programme helping 11 to 18 year olds build mobile apps. And they did, which is really fun. And I would say, I think 90% of them had never written a line of code before they started. And in two weeks, you know, they were able to build apps, which was really fun. And then we did online programmes with older people as well. So again, introducing things like Machine Learning, but also Web Development, and DevOps, and like all these different roles. And so, our programmes focus on a specific skill set, most of which lead to at least one, one job. And some of the things I'm saying now, you know, I'm not necessarily censoring myself, but I don't want to bombard you with all this jargon, and have to go and explain it. But you will probably, you know, not encounter these jobs on a job ad or like, in things of tech, because there are so many new jobs and new specialities that are coming out all the time. And it's important to know that you don't have to just be a software engineer to be in tech. But I personally think that coding is a really good skill to have, and can really change your kind of trajectory and how comfortable you are in life. Because you never know where it's going to come into play. And just the ability to code, and code well, can go a long way. So that's what I try to impart on people. But also, we also have conversations like this where I am the interviewer, not you. And we're talking to people in tech. And like, we recently spoke to someone who did an apprenticeship. And we learned about that. So it's more about just opening access to further education or employment in tech.

 

Student Interviewers 08:22

What do you like and not like about your STEM career?

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 08:26

Now I'm going into research, I love the flexibility. I mean, the fact that it's sometime in the morning on a weekday right now. And I can just say, “Well, I'm going to talk to you guys for however long this takes and I'll get to my research later”. I'm also somebody who doesn't want to sit down and do the same thing forever, or do like a remix of the same thing forever. And again, this is more to do with research, just, you know, thinking about something and spending maximum, you know, two years on it, and then I can move on, you know, and I'm doing things in parallel. And I may be teaching at the same time, and I may be doing all these different things that means that my brain is always on its toes. What do I not like about my STEM career? Oh, I mean, okay, lack of representation, textbook answer, obviously. But it's more the approaches to it, and the kind of attitudes of other people. I’m the only person who wanted to do computer science at school, which I think is crazy, given what everyone else is doing. You know, everyone else is they're all engineers and doctors and things so they're still in the field. When it came to Computer Science, at school, I was the only one who really went and did the degree in Computer Science in both secondary school and Sixth Form. And then go into my course and I’m the only black girl on the course. There's only one other black person and there were like 270 of us in total. You know, it grates on you. People's attitudes also get to you a lot faster when there isn't a group and there isn't that protective group of people to talk to. And I'm now going into a PhD, and it's the same thing. You know, I'm one of the first black women to get onto the PhD, which is something I didn't know. And I didn't expect, you know. And it's just like, “When am I not going to be the only one? When are you guys going to come and join me?” But it doesn't mean that I would trade it for anything, I think times will change, people will change. And there are good people everywhere. And that's a big lesson I've learned in recent years. So it's just about finding them and being patient. But you should never let something like that discourage you from doing anything.

 

Student Interviewers 10:46

When you were younger you didn't really have any role models in Computer Science. But do you have any now and do you think it's important for people to have them? 

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 10:53

Yeah, so I think role models are so important. One reason why I'm having this conversation with you guys, because not only you guys will learn from me, but whoever listens to this later on, may learn a thing or two. I’m not sure how much I have to give, but I'm sure they'll get something from it. Yeah, so I think role models are so important. I grew up with parents who I just knew did not know, you know, and it's not their fault. And they tried their best with everything else that they could, but they just weren't. They just didn't know anyone. And sometimes I see people like, Oh, my dad's friend worked in tech, I didn't know that. I you know, I didn't have that at all. Then I would, of my own accord at 15/16 go to these conferences in London, go to these hackathons. And I’d deliberately be looking for a 20 something year old black woman, because I know I'm not the only one, you know, I'm not self-absorbed. I don't think I'm like the first person on earth who's been interested in Computer Science as a black woman. So where have they gone? You know? And I was thinking, have they dropped off? Have they been scared off by the industry? What happened? And I always had that in the back of my mind, because sometimes I'd see you know, 50/60 year old wonderful women, but they grew up in a different time, they may have grown up in a time when women were generally encouraged to, to kind of studies those things. And things have changed. So yes, role models are really important, because you can't be what you can't see. I mean, that's a saying, right? I didn't really see very much though. And I still am. So it doesn't mean that you can't, like this is not a sentence to your life. But I do have role models now like, and they’re all my friends, which is even better, right? In setting up Coders of Colour, in going through doing all this stuff and meeting people, I've met people who are doing amazing things, similar things to me. And the fact that I can just hop on a call with my role models is something that's even better than you know, the situation I was in 5-10 years ago when I had no one to look up to. 

Number one, because she also loves Maths and Computer Science is Anne-Marie Imafidon, who's the founder (co-founder) of Stemettes. She's great. And yeah, like, yeah, that's basically all I can say she's, she's great. Look her up. She's wonderful. But then there's also like Charlene Hunter from Coding Black Females. There’s Deborah Okenla, from YSYS, and these are all black women, you know, who are a little bit older than me, to be honest, who are doing great things and who have done great things. Like Charlene’s similar to me, she was coding from day one, you know, and she existed when I was 13. I didn't know who she was, because she wasn't made visible. So they do exist, they're out there. They're just not made visible.

 

Student Interviewers 13:49

If you change anything about your career in STEM? What would you change and why?

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 13:53

To be exposed to research much, much earlier. Because I just like I had to…I don't know which adjective to give you. But just like I had to work really, really hard to just get my foot in the door with tech in general and software engineering. I had to do the same thing all over again for research, you know. And this is like painstakingly emailing 100 people, or even hundreds of people like “Please, can you give me an opportunity” or whatever, right? And there are so many people who, from their first year of undergrad, had a lovely, you know, lecturer who was like, “Oh, I'll take you under my wing. And this summer, I'll pay you to do research and x y z”. And I didn't even realise that was a thing until I'd finished my degree. Just having a space or having people around me who were supportive enough and fostered that much earlier would have been great. But at the same time, I think my story is a story to tell. And I am proof that you don't need to have that, you don't need to be mollycoddled. You don't need to, you know, sleep on a bed of money and have so much at your disposal to get into these places. And so yeah, it's a double edged sword. But yeah. 

 

Student Interviewers 15:07

What three things would you wish for girls in STEM today? And why? 

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 15:11

Oh, okay, so I have two retrospective ones and one forward thinking one. The two retrospective ones are that young black girls really have a great list of role models and exposure to STEM. The other retrospective one is that teachers are hyper aware of the effect they can have on young girls, and then their trajectory. I think a lot of people have had a teacher say something to them, or have even subconsciously received different feedback from teachers of different subjects and gone down a different path. That would be my other one. And then forward thinking is in the next decade I don't want it to be 2030 and we're still doing Girls in STEM, like it should be normal by then, you know! I don't want to have to do this in another 10 years. So that's, that's my main one I think we can definitely work towards.

 

Student Interviewers 16:06

So do you feel that, especially in STEM more than other subject areas, that people in general have experienced more sexism and racism due to like the large disparities in the number of people? 

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 16:19

Well, I think with everything that happened last year, and things that I've been exposed to kind of personally and just drama, I guess, around? I wouldn't say it’s STEM specific. I think it's very, you'd have a very narrow view of the world to think that this stuff only happens in STEM. The last big palaver I saw was about a law student. And I've seen stuff about, you know, law, there are things like mental health spaces or teacher spaces, you know, this this permeates through society. And I think putting the dart on STEM does a disservice to communities as a whole. But I mean, it exists, it's there. I wouldn't say that, I mean, yes, there are racists and sexist people in the industry. But I don't think that's the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is the attitude. And like I was saying beforehand, you know, people refusing to acknowledge things or, you know, just putting things aside, or being micro aggressive as people say these days, without realising I think those are big issues or, or things that are easier to tackle than, you know, detect the racist and chuck him out. Yeah. 

 

Student Interviewers 17:51

What do you hope these podcasts achieve? 

 

Tolúlọpẹ́ Ògúnrẹ̀mí 17:55

Well, I hope, our conversation and all the other conversations will give girls access to role models that they haven't before, through their voices. You know, if there's someone like me or someone like anyone else who has never heard of a, you know, 20 something/30 something/40 something year old woman who's doing what they want to do when they're older. That might be the thing that clicks for them, and lets them know, you know what, you can do it. And yeah, I'm talking about Computer Science here. Whatever it is that you want to do, if you're listening to this, this is your sign that you can do it and you should just go for it doesn't matter which circumstance you're in, or who you're around or not around. If you want to do it. I personally believe in you, and I think you can do it. So that's the main thing.

 

Outro 18:46

Thank you for joining another Stem Untapped podcast. If you know of a school or group of students that would like to interview female STEM role models to get in touch. Likewise, if you know of anyone who would be a great female STEM role model, please do let us know. Our details are all documented in the show notes.