STEM Untapped

Yesim Kunter - Play Expert and Futurist

March 22, 2022 STEM Untapped Episode 5
STEM Untapped
Yesim Kunter - Play Expert and Futurist
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode the students are going to introduce you to Yesim Kunter. Yesim is a play expert and futurist. Her day to day work involves a range of subjects, such as technology, psychology, anthropology, sociology and design.

Yesim recommends...
Ways of Seeing by John Berger (ISBN: 9780141035796)
Homo Ludens: A Study of the Play-Element in Culture by Johan Huizinga (ISBN: 9781621389996)
No Time to Spare: Thinking About What Matters by Ursula K. Le Guin (ISBN: 9781328661593)
The Courage to Create by Rollo May (ISBN: 9780393311068)
You can follow Yesim's watercolours on Instagram @yesimsplay

STEM Untapped also recommends...
The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin (ISBN: 9781473225947)

If you know a group of students who would like to interview female role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

If you know a group of students who would like to interview one of our role models, please get in touch by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Likewise, if you know anyone who would be a great role model, let us know by emailing podcast@untappedinnovation.com

Follow us on Instagram @STEMUntapped
Connect with us on LinkedIn @STEMUntappedCIC
Check out our website

Intro 00:00

Hello, and welcome to the Stem Untapped Podcast series. We're delighted that you could join us. Research from Microsoft reveals that having a role model was one of the most effective ways to prevent girls falling out of love with STEM subjects. As all partners at Untapped are female scientists, and many of our clients and associates are female scientists, we felt that we had a unique opportunity to map students with a variety of role models of their choice. This way, students can ask the questions that are most important to them, allowing them to gain access into a diverse array of different STEM careers.  In this podcast episode, our next students will interview Yesim who's a play expert and futurist. Her day to day work involves a range of subjects such as technology, psychology, anthropology, sociology, and design. She has worked with amazing companies, such as Lego Hasbro, and of course, Untapped, to create meaningful experiences through play. We really hope you enjoyed this podcast as much as we did.

 

Student Interviewers 01:14

How would you describe yourself in your career?

 

Yesim Kunter 01:17

it's been a very interesting journey, I have to say, it's a roller coaster, especially leaving your country to follow your dream. So I kind of feel like I'm in this amusement park and, you know, enjoying it, and sometimes being super scared, and sometimes being very much confident about it. But it's been almost like a journey, really, a very long journey. And I think it's a forever journey. But I was always in love with the subject very much. Especially, I mean, really, I wanted to be a toy designer, and a designer, and you know, anything got to do with around that. I really want to do that. So I'm very passionate. That's what I would say,

 

Student Interviewers 01:57

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your career?

 

Yesim Kunter 02:00

That’s a great question by the way. I think it's when you find yourself connecting with people really in almost like very deeply, that's the most rewarding part. Like when you know that you kind of help them and support them. I think that's the part which I feel the most joy. And I had seen that so many times in completely different contexts. But I really enjoyed that time, like really touching them. 

 

Student Interviewers 02:24

Did you always want to pursue this career, and if not, how did you come to choose this path?

 

Yesim Kunter 02:29

I always want to stay as a child. So I think I became a professional child. So that's how I would say it's, I don't think I can imagine myself in any other role. It did change, I transition to different parts of it. But I think I always want to be in this title, I would say.

 

Student Interviewers 02:49

So we did do a bit of research before coming up with these questions. And we saw that you describe yourself as an optimist. So have you always been an optimist? Or has your career changed your view on life and your perspective?

 

Yesim Kunter 03:03

I like to find the positivity in everything I would say, even in the horrible contexts. I do have my downtime, definitely. But I really want to bring joy to people. I'm a serious person. It's not like I'm very much like, light hearted, or, you know, I'm not like that that much. I'm quite serious. But I want to keep my optimism and I want to find possibilities, opportunities. And I think with the optimistic way you can find them. 

 

Student Interviewers 03:35

You describe yourself as a professional child, how would you sort of elaborate on this? Like, what does that mean?

 

Yesim Kunter 03:40

One day I was thinking, seriously,  this like a year or two years ago, I came up with this. I was like thinking, what am I really? Why did I want to be a play? Like serious, I was going back to Turkey. So I'm Turkish, and I'm on this plane. And I'm like really, really thinking how can I actually name myself and how am I, I always want to be like a child. I love this curiosity and wonder and they always love finding joy in different things. And they are very much persevere, you know, they will try and try and they will try to make something at the end work and they master their things. So I was thinking, I always want to have this curiosity in me and I never want to let it go. So I said, Okay, this is this is me. This is, I'm doing this as a professional. So this is how I would say, I'm a professional child.

 

Student Interviewers 04:28

You mentioned that you worked for Lego and Hasbro before COVID. What would your typical day entail?

 

Yesim Kunter 04:34

I've been working on my own for the last 10 years. So I was already working from home most of the time. And that meant that I was doing all the research, talking with people all around the world and making connections and sometimes doing research on my own. So that didn't change too much. The only thing that really did change is some of my clients are far away and they would like to have you know, in person meetings and workshops and that kind of unfortunately, that disappeared.

 

Student Interviewers 05:01

I think you just answered my next question I was gonna ask has COVID affected the way that you work or research?

 

Yesim Kunter 05:08

I think it's actually, I mean, there are positive parts of it, what I can add to it is, you know, everything became much more digital and everybody was more open to connect. Before, you know, you would go and meet them, it became a bit easier, you know, less travel. For that reason, I kind of enjoyed some of the parts, like the conferences, some of the conference became all online. Before you wouldn't be able to go, now you can actually see them in your house. So that's quite amazing. You know, it's a huge richness actually the availability of all this research and doing things that you wouldn't be able to afford to do it with time. So it kind of helped. But of course, there are so many downsides of it also.

 

Student Interviewers 05:48

What would you say is your proudest design that you've made in your career?

 

Yesim Kunter 05:52

My proudest design is, I mean, I have two. I am more proud each day now of the play workshops, which I've been designing and developing, and it's been 10 years. And I think it was at the beginning, it was really risky, because I said, I'm going to talk about play and innovation and how they relate with each other. And I gave the first speech in front of all the high level innovation leaders in the world. And I was like thinking while I was giving the speech, who am I? And what am I saying right now and was very new at the time. So I would say I'm proud of that. And then the second one is I did design at Hasbro. And unfortunately, there is none of them in the market because it was very much highly confidential project. But I designed learning platforms. And it was digital and physical, converged kind of project. And it was really amazing. I got inspired from that, and ended up doing this, what I'm doing now with the play workshops and understanding play in general.

 

Student Interviewers 06:50

Have there been any funny or overwhelming experiences that you've gone through in your career, and how did you deal with them?

 

Yesim Kunter 06:58

I had really, really downtimes. One of them was the first time I was at Lego I was working for them. I wasn't permanent. And I want to be permanent. But unfortunately, they were going through an organisational structure change. And they said they won't have a place for me. And it was super devastating, I have to admit, because it meant that I wouldn’t be able to stay in Europe since I was Turkish. I was under Turkish visa. That meant that I had to go back to Turkey where there was no toy industry. And so I had so many things that I would lose after working so much for I mean, I really did work for it. So I was devastated. But on the other side, I did find a way of staying in Denmark because I said okay, I will go to the student visa then. So you always try to find a way when you really, really want to do something. You are so obsessed with the whole idea. Maybe opposition is not a good word. But when you really want to do something you find a way. I found my way around. I was seriously literally saying that if they don't let me in the front door. I will choose the chimney. That's, you know, that was my that was my way. I didn't leave any place that I will be refused completely. So then I found Hasbro. Sorry, I don't have any funny ones sadly.

 

Student Interviewers 08:22

You mentioned you’ve worked in a couple of different countries. Which one was your favourite place that you’ve worked?

 

Yesim Kunter 08:28

Well, my longest country is here. So I guess I'm really enjoying it. I loved New York for so many different reasons. First of all, it was my first country to be away from Turkey. And it was so cosmopolitan. It was so inspiring, and very, very energetic. And I fell in love with this whole excitement of the city itself. So I would probably say New York was my favourite and I was young at the time, also in my 20s. So it was really great time to be there.

 

Student Interviewers 09:02

So I'm going to quote you now, you said if you stop playing not only will we lose the connection to others, but the connection to ourselves. So would you say that you play in your everyday life and how would you incorporate play into your adult personal life?

 

Yesim Kunter 09:19

I do play, yes, I'm I love playing and how do I play? So one thing every morning I do wake up at 5:30 to go and swim in the Thames in the cold water. So that's my really most important play. And I play this with my other companions, which is couple of other ladies that we go very early in the morning. And this morning we were swimming among 20 or 30 different swans. So glad they didn't attack us but it was our adventure. And what I love about it is I love looking at the nature and learning about it and being part of it and I think you connect to everything that makes it, the harmony and everything about it. I just, I just love it. And also, if I'm not swimming, I'm probably rowing or I'm walking around. So it's kind of like, I have to be by the water. So that's my play. If I could have shown my desk, you will see there are so many paints, different kinds of watercolour brushes, spinning tops, slinkie. I have so many playful objects all around me all the time. I have a small bouncy ball. So yeah, I'm constantly playing. I love drawing. And I love reading as well. So I have a library full of different books, and I get inspired every day. So it's a constant thing for me. Yes.

 

Student Interviewers 10:43

Would you say that being a woman yourself has impacted your career in any way?

 

Yesim Kunter 10:49

I actually never thought about that that much. But I'm sure it does. It gives some of the power in some ways. You try to be much more understanding, you know, you do use your empathy and some kind of more softness of understanding different things. I think that kind of gives you that power in a way. But I have to admit, I never thought about what I'm doing from the perspective of, I'm doing it as a woman, you know what I mean? If I was a woman, or a man or any other identity, it doesn't matter, I will do it anyway. But I think sometimes there are some struggles that might come with it, which is, you know, the expectations of people, especially from Turkey. So you know, you would expect you to get married, have children and you know, pursue to I mean, you can still pursue on your career. But there are things that is not expected as much. And that's it's kind of sometimes a struggle, I would say. But that doesn't mean that… I think it's a very different concept, but yes, in the world, there are so many expectations, which makes it a bit harder sometimes. But I think you just have to stick with what you love. Because the rest is so many, many details that they make so many chattery around that you have to close your ears to it.

 

Student Interviewers 12:04

Are there a lot of women in your industry? 

 

Yesim Kunter 12:07

Yes actually, I have to say there are a lot because most of us, maybe it's just because the children and it's more play. And it's kind of like a toy industry is a little bit different. Because toy industry, I would say it's half and half because, it's at the end of the day, it's a business, it's an industry that is actually making a lot of you know, revenue and all of that. So it's a serious business. But I think as an expert and being interested in facilitating play in different contexts. Yes, you will say a lot of woman is there. But there are also a lot of men at the same time. But it's I think it's a very interesting area, it's more playful, so it makes it easier to communicate with each other.

 

Student Interviewers 12:49

So you mentioned that every morning, you swim in the Thames. Are there any other ways you obtain like a healthy work life balance?

 

Yesim Kunter 12:58

Journaling helps a lot. I do try to connect with people and have fun with them. You know, socialising is really important at the end of the day. And also having a different diverse group of friends is also very important because you can have different perspectives. And that's what I like, like, I don't have one type of friend, it gives me… I like being with many different people. And also the other thing that keeps me sane, I would say. And then I think it's also museums and all of these kinds of like historical things. I love being involved with that. Also seeing different perspectives.

 

Student Interviewers 13:37

Throughout your career. What do you think is the best piece of advice you have received?

 

Yesim Kunter 13:42

Well, I mean, I think the best one, when I was starting this, my own independent consultancy is like this is going to be a roller coaster. So you have to have a thick skin. That's what they told me. And I think they were right. I think they were totally right. It is super fun to be on your own and do certain things on your own. But I think you have to really be okay with any kind of uncertainty. And I think uncertainty is very important to be okay with otherwise it becomes so uncontrollable.

 

Student Interviewers 14:15

You mentioned that you grew up in Turkey. What sort of A Levels or the equivalent did you study? And if you were to go back, would you change any of them to help your career?

 

Yesim Kunter 14:23

I studied science, even though my science grades were really low. In Turkey. It's a little bit different system. It was either you choose science and math, or math and literature, or just literature. I think you don't even choose just literature. I think it was impossible, at least in my time. So I don't know what's going on right now. It's always changing, and you will take a huge one exam, and then that takes you to another big exam. I wouldn't change anything. I loved being in the laboratory. I loved seriously playing with different kinds of experimenting and exploring things. I loved all of that. So I wouldn't change. I just would change the system. That's a bit hard, but I would change the system because it was brutal.

 

Student Interviewers 15:06

So do you have any advice for our age group on burnout or revising, and, especially because we're in exam season at the moment, do you have any advice,

 

Yesim Kunter 15:14

I mean, it's very hard when you are in the exam period, especially when you are wanting to do something really so much, I would say, just focus on your mission. And do not compare yourself with the others. I'm going to give you an example. When you're rowing, I don't know if you have ever rowed, but when you're rowing, you shouldn't be looking at the other boat, because then you're going to lose your focus. And then it's going to be like a complete mess. So it's so much better to keep yourself almost focused on your own mission. And in between, I would say, do something, have fun, like even five minutes, something really fun, give yourself that kind of flexibility, try to laugh a lot so that you are actually not too much breaking yourself, because I know it's mentally it's very hard, but I think you should trust yourself. And also, you know, life is so changeable. It's transitioning all the time. So you should like when you focus on only one thing, and you think that's, that's the whole life, it's so easy to break. So just know that this is one step.

 

Student Interviewers 16:23

Do you have any other recommendations for authors or books or TV shows maybe for our age group?

 

Yesim Kunter 16:30

Do you know Rollo May?

 

Student Interviewers 16:31

No

 

Yesim Kunter 16:32

So Rollo May has this phrase to be creative… what was it? Brave to be creative… something like that. But have a look at Rollo May. And it's beautiful. Because it does talk about, despite being scared of doing something, you should still do it. And that was my almost Bible for a very long time. I really loved reading it, I read it in Turkish, but I do have it in English also. So I'm trying to, I have to go back and read it again. I think that was my best book ever. And then the other one is you can read Ways of Seeing… that is also a great book, it will give you a different perspective of how to see things. Of course, it's usually given to us as designers, and we had to read it. And I think it's a really great book to read also. I mean, I love play, and I am sure you are interested in play. So I would recommend it's a little bit different book, nothing, it's not going to help you with your studies. But Huizinga’s Homo Ludens. And it talks about play in general. So you are going to learn a lot about play. And it's not just talking about children's play is talking about political play, the strategy and all of these different things. I think it will give you a very different perspective. I wish I read it when I was younger, like much younger. I read it only 10 years ago. 

 

I use a lot of Instagram, but I use it only, for example I have Instagram accounts for @yesimsplay. That's what I call it. And I'm only putting my watercolour drawings. And I'm only following watercolours. That's all, like all the people who are artists. So I'm not watching my, you know, following my friends or anything like that. It's only for me for inspiration reasons. So I created that for me to get all the time something interesting, that's going to give me a new perspective. So whatever is your interest try to almost create a whole support system all around that. So it will inspire you, and it will guide you in a way, because there are so many amazing people out there and you can follow them now. 

 

These days, I'm talking to Ursula LeGuin in my mind. I love her mind I think. I'm reading her memoirs. So it's quite interesting to read them and articles while she had written. You know, I'm kind of having conversations in my mind with her. So that's one person, definitely. And then if I have to go in very personal, I think you know, you get inspired from your own family, definitely. So my grandmother was very much in love with nature. And I think her enthusiasm of life actually gave me this kind of space that I have to enjoy and have fun and be open to curiosity. And then my mum actually gave me space to explore. She didn't limit me and her best two friends actually inspired me because one of them is an architect, and then the other one is a psychologist. So I kind of get very much inspired by them. So that's what I would say they were very much my inspiration. So yeah, Ursula LeGuin, she's an author, and she does write about speculative fiction. So it's like a science fiction and all of that. I think she's the, you know, mother of all of them. I would say she's so amazing. And I have to read most of her books still, but I'm just learning about her and her life. And also her family quite interesting because they're anthropologists, and amazing really how she gets her inspiration. And how she writes about the science fiction is quite remarkable, because it's not really disconnected from the reality. It's actually the way she kind of creates the metaphors and writes about them. You'll learn so much about it. So for that reason, I think she's very interesting person to read, I would highly recommend.

 

Student Interviewers 20:28

What advice would you have given to your 16 year old self while you were trying to do this career,

 

Yesim Kunter 20:34

My 16 year old self was much more wiser than me right now. She was writing letters to myself. Now actually, I must have some of the unopened letters I was writing to my future self, I was writing millions of letters to everything that while I should be and how I should be doing everything, so she was really like a very wise person. I might, I might maybe say to her, don't beat up yourself too much. That's what I would say, because you compare yourself with other people. So the reason is that I had ADHD and I wasn't diagnosed at that time. So I was doing a lot of mistakes. And I wasn't sure that I can actually, I mean, actually, also, there were other things like some people did tell me that I didn't have any science scientific mind that I wouldn't be able to do it. So what I would say for that girl is like, do not listen to anyone, even though if they are very, very, very close to you. And it's sometimes they're also adults, but they're also trying to grow up. So sometimes they might make a mistake as well. So just follow your heart really. I would, that's what I would say. And actually, she did follow her heart. So for that reason, I am grateful with my 16 year old.

 

Outro 21:57

Thank you for joining another Stem Untapped podcast. If you know of a school or group of students that would like to interview female STEM role models to get in touch. Likewise, if you know of anyone who would be a great female STEM role model, please do let us know. Our details are all documented in the show notes.