First Cup of Coffee – August 19, 2025

Why finding where the story starts is *always* one of the most difficult challenges in writing, why I firmly believe you shouldn't get critiques from people who love you, and new developments on AMONG THE THORNS.

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Transcript

00:01.21
Jeffe Kennedy
Good morning everyone. this is Jeffe Kennedy also writing as Jennifer K Lambert, author of epic fantasy romance. I'm here with my first cup of coffee.

00:15.38
Jeffe Kennedy
Delicious.

00:18.55
Jeffe Kennedy
Had to swallow some more of that. Today is Tuesday, August day august nineteen um And we're coming up on my birthday.

00:29.18
Jeffe Kennedy
My birthday is on Friday. So we'll do a ah Friday birthday podcast, I think. ah Hopefully I'll have time because i have to be down at Bubonicon this weekend. So if you're in the Albuquerque, New Mexico area or want to be, um i will be at the con all weekend. It should be fun. I'm going to be Toastmaster, Toastmistress, Toastmeister.

00:53.53
Jeffe Kennedy
Uh, and ah special guest is, uh, Joe Haldeman, guest of honor and also Delilah Dawson. And so I will get to interview them and we'll be on some panels and we'll be hanging on the bar and it's, um, yeah, it's going to be awesome.

01:12.21
Jeffe Kennedy
Should be very fun. And then i am done. with cons for a little while, not completely done with travel. Uh, very exciting news for those of you who follow the personal side of my life.

01:26.71
Jeffe Kennedy
Uh, my mother is going to come visit in September. She's going to come stay in the Casita. I'm going to drive there Labor Day weekend and, uh, deal with a whole bunch of tax stuff.

01:39.18
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, this will be since my stepdad died in March of 2024. This will be the last time that we're doing a joint filing for them. We got an extension obviously.

01:51.25
Jeffe Kennedy
So my stepsister and I still need to sit down and do like authorizations with all three of us at the table to like get some paperwork done. Always exciting.

02:03.74
Jeffe Kennedy
But that'll be great to get that done. And then um I will bring my mom and her kitties back with me to stay in the casino. I'm really excited. I think she's looking forward to it to getting out of the heat and get to spend some time together. And I think it's going to be really, really nice.

02:23.33
Jeffe Kennedy
So, um let's see what else. Oh, and then I'm taking her to her high school reunion in October, but I think this is all of my like writing travel for is going to be done.

02:41.00
Jeffe Kennedy
So, um, those of you waiting for magic reborn, i don't know. Cover your faces. Look away. I'm sorry. It's probably going to get delayed because i am revising among the thorns yet again.

02:59.15
Jeffe Kennedy
Uh, I did get to meet with editor Ali and we had a really wonderful lunch. It was super fun to get to meet her. Um, she is tall. I was guessing she was going to be tall.

03:11.00
Jeffe Kennedy
This is the one thing that's really deceptive about zoom meetings is you never know how tall people are. Everybody has the same height on zoom, right? You know, we're all the same, uh, from the waist up.

03:23.41
Jeffe Kennedy
Some people you could tell that they're, I don't know. You get more of that stretch of their body, but, um, not everybody can you tell. And she is, yeah, much, much taller than I, which isn't saying a lot as, uh, for those of you who have never met me, I am not tall. I'm five, four, but often I'm wearing heels. So that helps.

03:47.76
Jeffe Kennedy
That's part the reason I wear heels. So, um, yeah, it was really great having lunch with her and, um, And then had coffee with her and Devi Pillai. I found out it's Pellay. I always say Pell-eye.

04:03.28
Jeffe Kennedy
Devi Pillai. And it was great for Devi to sit down to spend some time with me. And Devi had read the oh the latest version of Among the Thorns.

04:19.63
Jeffe Kennedy
And had thoughts, had some revisions for me. Ali had not yet read it. So, ah yeah, we, um, it was funny because Devi told me and they're, they're fairly large changes.

04:38.70
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, she felt like it started too slow. And so I'm ending up cutting off as to where she thought the story started and she told me and, um, and she also wanted the ending to be a little different.

04:54.64
Jeffe Kennedy
So, Those are, I mean, I think they're going be fairly straightforward changes. I already started in on them yesterday. What's funny is that Devi, okay, Devi Pillai is apologizing to me for having critiques on the book.

05:09.11
Jeffe Kennedy
And I'm like, I just got a ah dev edit from, the great Devi Pillai and, um and it was really good cause she was fresh to the book. So she was able to give that outside perspective, the first walking in, cause we had changed it a number of times.

05:29.64
Jeffe Kennedy
And so, then afterwards, uh, Ali and I got to sit down together, which was great and look at the book and, how see where the changes could be made.

05:44.58
Jeffe Kennedy
And as I suspected, it's, it's kind of funny because what I'm doing is I'm lopping off the first three chapters and which I did it yesterday. i just went ahead and cut them, which was almost 12,000 words, which brings the book down to 115,000, know, so it's still ah long book ah and I'm going to weave in a lot of that backstory, but ally said a couple of things. One, she pointed out that, uh, that now it's starting where I had originally started the book, which is, i don't know, funny. It's this whole, you know, like working with an editorial team.

06:27.33
Jeffe Kennedy
Uh, yeah. Anyway, it's starting where I originally started. And she also said, you know, like maybe I needed to write those first three chapters ah just to get the, um to get those characters solid in my mind.

06:44.73
Jeffe Kennedy
And that it's something that happens sometimes. Sometimes you have to write those things and then take them out again. And it goes back to being the part of the iceberg that's under the surface of the water.

06:59.61
Jeffe Kennedy
In case you don't know what I'm talking about, that's the analogy of the iceberg where only the tip shows above water and a huge part of it is beneath is how you do world building and storytelling.

07:10.96
Jeffe Kennedy
ah You don't want to describe the entire iceberg to everyone because that's um it's not an effective way to tell stories. But you do have to know it. It has to be there.

07:24.73
Jeffe Kennedy
You can't have just like little iceberg tips floating on the water because you could. I don't know. Like what would happen? They tip over part of them would sink. it I really don't know.

07:35.96
Jeffe Kennedy
It's a funny image though. I'm picturing all of these little iceberg tips floating around.

07:43.20
Jeffe Kennedy
So I'm really happy to have gotten the feedback because I want this to be the best book it can be um and changing the ending feels right I feel like all along I had been working towards this ending that Ali had asked for.

08:02.06
Jeffe Kennedy
That was, um, yeah, it was like one of the things she had said from the beginning that she wanted. And I think I was really trying to force that ending, which, ah, it just doesn't work that way. just, but I don't know if it's especially me as a writer, but I just could not make that ending happen.

08:24.38
Jeffe Kennedy
And, the ending that Devi suggested is so much better and it feels right. It feels good. Um, and it's kind of funny because, and this will be exciting for those of you who loved never the roses.

08:38.99
Jeffe Kennedy
Uh, Ali had asked me at lunch, um, like she kept it open, but she's like, if there's to be a book three, if there's to be a book three, what, What did I envision? And I told her how I envisioned it starting because I have my opening image, which is generally where all of my stories start. I almost always start with a character in a situation.

09:00.03
Jeffe Kennedy
And so I had that image of that character in situation and she loved that idea. So then interestingly enough, when we talked about the changed endings,

09:11.07
Jeffe Kennedy
I talked about how that could morph into how I was talking about book three starting. And I love this. It's, it's epic people. It is so epic. And I think you're all going to be really happy with it.

09:23.95
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, I'm happy with it. So, so yeah, yesterday I lopped off those first three chapters. I reworked chapter one. I think it's working. Now I am working on chapter two and we'll see.

09:39.88
Jeffe Kennedy
uh,

09:42.65
Jeffe Kennedy
Yeah.

09:46.21
Jeffe Kennedy
But, but yeah. and And so this is a thing. and And I know I've told this story before. But for those of you who are new to the podcast, and for those of you who need to hear it again, because this is one of those recurring themes, recurring lessons in my life as a writer.

10:04.77
Jeffe Kennedy
is that figuring out where to start is one of the hardest parts and it doesn't get easier. So like, lo, this is going to be my,

10:16.50
Jeffe Kennedy
oh well, I have 68 published titles, right? So this is something like the 69th book I've written, except some of those were shorts novellas. But anyway, that gives you some perspective, right?

10:30.01
Jeffe Kennedy
I am an experienced writer at this point. um Oh, gee, old granny. And there was a time that um another author and I, and I'll just say it was Darynda Jones, ah who is fabulous and a New York Times bestselling author and critically acclaimed, award-winning, immensely popular, all of this kind of thing.

10:55.58
Jeffe Kennedy
And, oh, hang on, I have to rescue the cat.

11:01.43
Jeffe Kennedy
He wanted to come in. So if you're on video you can see Killian here at the edge of the screen drinking from my water glass of course as cats do.

11:12.28
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, so let's see what was I say. Oh, I was telling this story right so Darynda and I judged a contest for it was a fundraiser for our local chapter and we um,

11:29.71
Jeffe Kennedy
it wasn't like I'm sorry take it back it was not a contest it wasn't we judged it was we offered critiques so Darynda and I independently read. Um, the I know first three chapters of another gals book and she paid for it with the money going to the chapter right so we thought this could be a great fundraiser you know an opportunity for people to get their work read by authors farther down the road and then also.

11:58.63
Jeffe Kennedy
Generate funds for the chapter which we needed. So then Darynda and I got together and discussed and we wrote up our notes on the chapter and the one thing.

12:09.08
Jeffe Kennedy
The principal thing we agreed on was that the book started in the wrong place and we made suggestions. We said, you know, here's where we think it should start, which is I'm going to remind you all just for emphasis is precisely the conversation that I just had with Devi Pillai, right?

12:28.43
Jeffe Kennedy
Where Devi said, it's too slow. You're starting in the wrong place. I think the story starts here. And often it takes an outside person to tell you that which it's one reason why objective readers can be so important.

12:43.73
Jeffe Kennedy
ah And when I say objective I know that many many people don't agree with me on this but I think you should also have objective readers who are people who don't love you.

12:55.20
Jeffe Kennedy
Okay and and people will get upset with me about this because they'll say well you know my spouse is my first reader and they're great or my mother or my dad or my sister.

13:06.32
Jeffe Kennedy
And they read everything I write and they're really great. And it's like, well, that's awesome. I'm glad. But also they love you. They love you. And that gets in the way.

13:17.37
Jeffe Kennedy
Now he wants out of my office. Hang on So that's one reason why it's really great to have someone like Devi who A, wants my book to succeed because it's part of her house. But also Devi doesn't love me.

13:31.33
Jeffe Kennedy
but we, we get along great. Um, she has wonderful, she had a great shade of purple lipstick on and we talked about lipstick, which kind of goes back to what I was saying on the podcast the other day about, uh, what I love about working with women is that we can have these, um, we also had some kind of hardcore discussions about the publishing industry and some my thoughts about it from coming from the SFWA perspective.

13:55.42
Jeffe Kennedy
So we talked about my book publishing industry and lipstick and that's to me that's just it's amazing. I love that. Ah, so anyway.

14:08.37
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, so Darynda and I critique this book and I mean we spent a lot of time on this right and there was this immense backlash because the author was very upset and she had had one one published book one published book but other members of the chapter were coming up to us and saying how dare we tell her the story started in the wrong place she was a published author and it's like I'm sorry and she was traditionally published for whatever that means it's meaningless it's meaningless this idea that somehow

14:50.84
Jeffe Kennedy
You know what you're doing just because you've published once or 68 times. ah Each book is different and finding where the story starts is one of the most difficult parts.

15:06.46
Jeffe Kennedy
um And I mentioned as we were having this conversation too, that, uh, you know, people complain that my book starts slow. I see that, um, critique a lot.

15:17.84
Jeffe Kennedy
And Ali immediately jumped in and she said, sometimes you need that to set the tone of the book, which I think is absolutely true. And I have brought that up, um, I know I've talked about it on here before that, you know, like never the roses.

15:34.06
Jeffe Kennedy
People say it's got a slow opening and it does have a slow opening because that's setting the theme of the book. It's setting the tone and

15:48.02
Jeffe Kennedy
it's not for all readers. Um, no book is for all readers, but, uh,

15:56.59
Jeffe Kennedy
it's very important to get that the opening of a book sets your expectations for the rest of the book. So starting with um, you know, Wham Bam Action is great for some books but it doesn't work for every book and it's not the story that we all want to tell right.

16:19.18
Jeffe Kennedy
So um But anyways, it is kind of funny that I am going back to, I think even my yesterday I set like my original original opening line.

16:30.83
Jeffe Kennedy
So there we are and and I went back and looked at notes and actually nobody had told me to change that opening line.

16:43.54
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, there have been other editorial notes and I had made that decision. So so anyway, we decided that since Ali had not yet dug into this most recent version that I would go ahead and make these changes.

17:05.07
Jeffe Kennedy
be before she goes through and then hopefully she'll be able to tell me how this revision works. She said that she has um book amnesia that she doesn't really remember books, the iterations in between drafts, which is really helpful as an editor because again, you want to come to it fresh.

17:23.36
Jeffe Kennedy
So like one of my huge concerns is by lopping off so much that I am leaving out backstory. And I think that Ali and Dianna will be able to tell me so and possibly Agent Sarah. She's excited to read it again.

17:40.05
Jeffe Kennedy
There's few things better than people wanting to read your books again. So, yeah, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good about this. But it means that, like, maybe it was meant that I didn't really dig into Magic Reborn.

17:57.58
Jeffe Kennedy
But certainly when I do dig in, i am not going to have time to finish it in time for release. We'll see. it could happen. It probably won't.

18:09.42
Jeffe Kennedy
Such is life. All right. um On that note. I am going to get to work. I hope that you all have an amazing week.

18:20.86
Jeffe Kennedy
And I will talk to you all on Friday. And you can all sing me happy birthday. You all take care. of Bye-bye.