First Cup of Coffee – September 5, 2025

Supporting creativity, creators, and their creations vs. demanding a product and how parasocial relationships have fostered a tension there. Self-love and self-care vs. self-indulgence. Also, I turned in AMONG THE THORNS! 

Leigh Bardugo's TEDx talk is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCtbFZtoQ88

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Transcript

00:01.74
Jeffe Kennedy
Good morning, everyone. This is Jeffe Kennedy, also writing as Jennifer K. Lambert, author of Epic Fantasy Romance. I'm here with my first cup of coffee,

00:16.36
Jeffe Kennedy
which is delicious. On this very cool, say it with me, Friday morning, September 5th, 2025, officially into September, we are in the Last a third of the year officially now, depending upon your definition of quarters and so forth.

00:41.55
Jeffe Kennedy
I suppose I mean, you know, like fiscal year. What do people decide is the the end of their business time? Their business time. That's me being very official.

00:53.39
Jeffe Kennedy
I am. I'm a little tired. It's um it's been a week. No podcast on Tuesday. Sorry about that. But if you're a longtime listener, you know that I was at my mom's house and that I'm unlikely, unlikely, vanishingly unlikely to record a podcast when I'm there.

01:15.30
Jeffe Kennedy
The good news is, is not to bury the lead, L-E-D-E, by the way. ah it bugs me that people are spelling it L-E-A-D. It's an old newspaper term, lead.

01:28.27
Jeffe Kennedy
um Anyway, here I am burying it. I did finish the revision. Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Among the thorns. It's officially turned in. a Hopefully the last dev edit.

01:41.42
Jeffe Kennedy
People have been asking me how I feel about it. And generally, I feel very good. um I think this ending works better. um I think it moves faster. It's down um um word count-wise from the...

01:57.90
Jeffe Kennedy
previous version, the penultimate version, I turned it in on July 31st at 127,000 words. And now it is down to 120,019, which seems, um, correct.

02:15.80
Jeffe Kennedy
Seems me to, I had predicted, uh, that I thought when we like how we did three major rounds of revisions on this, I guess. Um,

02:28.12
Jeffe Kennedy
Let's see. I revised it once. Then I revised it for my editor. I revised it a second time for my editor and I revised it a third time for my publisher.

02:41.72
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, which I've been calling the Devi devs but Debbie dev edits. Uh, and for those of you who don't know just a quick thing, you know, like a developmental edit is You know, it's it's big level.

02:56.86
Jeffe Kennedy
It's high level. See what are words yesterday I was trying to come up with a contest run by an organization and I was I had brunch with Jim Sorenson and I was I had to like walk him through each piece of it. I'm like okay here is the cult like organization started by and but we got there.

03:21.65
Jeffe Kennedy
Ah, Yeah, so I don't know if it just took a lot out of me to finish this revision or if I'm tired. I did drive to Tucson on Monday.

03:33.73
Jeffe Kennedy
ah Was there for a day and did a bunch of businessy things. Got a lot of stuff taken care of, so that's great. We're finally going to get my stepdad's taxes finished off.

03:47.04
Jeffe Kennedy
and my mom's and and then we drove back to Santa Fe on Wednesday. So my mom's here in the Casita, which she the good news is she thinks it's really beautiful.

04:00.42
Jeffe Kennedy
The catio got done in the nick of time and is being enjoyed by at least the bolder cat. Hopefully the less bold cat will be interested in going out there too And and Yeah, but so that was just a lot, a lot of travel and I'll take my mom back on the 18th and that'd be done for a little bit.

04:30.73
Jeffe Kennedy
So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm glad to get that turned in. I'm glad I got it done Wednesday morning before we left to drive back to Santa Fe.

04:43.40
Jeffe Kennedy
I think it's got a really resonant ending. It does hint at the events of book three. I think I mentioned that we are talking about book three. i I think that no matter what, there will be a book three.

04:57.10
Jeffe Kennedy
If Tor wants to give me a contract for it, that'd be great. If not, I will self-publish it because ah this story needs to continue. Yeah,

05:09.80
Jeffe Kennedy
yeah so was... it was It's interesting hearing the feedback from people reading it. Uh, and by reading it, I mean, never the roses.

05:25.36
Jeffe Kennedy
So sorry to be unclear on that.

05:30.72
Jeffe Kennedy
Uh, but yeah, it's really, interesting with this book because so many people bought it because the um the cover is so beautiful and the sprayed edges are so beautiful.

05:46.40
Jeffe Kennedy
And then it took a long time for people to actually read it because, you know, it's a new pen name and

05:53.47
Jeffe Kennedy
all of these things. Uh, it was interesting to me that most of my early reviews were from audio books as opposed to, um people actually reading it. But now people, i think now that kids are back in school and all, you know, people are indoors more, uh, more people are reading it.

06:14.67
Jeffe Kennedy
And, um, yeah, it's, it's interesting to hear the, the reactions, how people feel about it.

06:25.83
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, you know, of course the Catherine Heigl tick tock was amazing. And one of the reasons that it was so amazing was because she's so, I mean, not just because Catherine Heigl did this amazing tick tock about it, appraising the book, but that because she really got it.

06:48.32
Jeffe Kennedy
And a friend of mine sent me a message the other day saying, uh, That I don't know if they didn't realize what it would be about, or just sort of coming back to me with the things I love hearing what people think the themes are, you know, what they're getting out of the story.

07:09.79
Jeffe Kennedy
And Um, you know, hearing that it was to this person about pacifism and the costs of making peace, the personal costs of us trying to make peace.

07:24.26
Jeffe Kennedy
Um, yes, is very much what it's about and the struggle to feel worthy of affection, um, of love. i I thought it was interesting that this person who only sporadically listens, so I don't know if you're listening, oh said affection instead of love.

07:42.74
Jeffe Kennedy
ah But yeah, it's, I think, difficult for many of us to find that, you know, there there's sort of that cliche, that very pat thing, you know, like no one will love you until you love yourself.

07:56.16
Jeffe Kennedy
And so you're supposed to try to figure out how to love yourself. And longtime listeners will know that I talk about self-care a lot. And, you know, like the whole take care of yourself thing and like trying to figure out what does that mean?

08:09.90
Jeffe Kennedy
what does that look like? How do you actually do that? How do you perform self care? How do you love yourself? And especially because we also have this sort of opposing tension of that. You're not supposed to be selfish, right?

08:30.92
Jeffe Kennedy
You know, you're not supposed to be self absorbed. And so, you know, if you have all of this ego,

08:40.16
Jeffe Kennedy
You know, is that is that being is that loving yourself? You know, because certainly we have examples of people in our government who clearly love themselves just a little too much, you know, that are basically performing grift on the American people and sucking away all of the money.

09:00.97
Jeffe Kennedy
oh Except I think we could argue that they also hate themselves and that that's why they are using things like money to try to. Fill the hole inside, which will never be filled.

09:15.44
Jeffe Kennedy
Right. This is turning unexpectedly philosophical today. Uh, but yeah, you know, the fact that we have an administration on the U S right now, that is so completely uninterested in serving the people.

09:33.13
Jeffe Kennedy
And the idea in never the roses about doing something to protect people, the day-to-day people, uh, making a sacrifice for that, you know, and and then I see, uh, people making references to, and I really don't see my reviews very much.

09:53.48
Jeffe Kennedy
Well, hang on after to rescue a kitty.

09:57.41
Jeffe Kennedy
So it turns out it was my mom's cat that needed rescuing. ah I heard the kitty crying but just up on the top shelf of the patio and now I've lost my train of thought I have no idea what I was saying.

10:12.42
Jeffe Kennedy
Now I was talking about welfare of the people i was talking about what never the roses is about among the thorns is a different book. I mean, obviously it's not the same book, but also it's a different book.

10:26.35
Jeffe Kennedy
It's different themes and different types of characters, but I really love the way it comes together at the end and and Hopefully it works.

10:37.12
Jeffe Kennedy
Hopefully it works this time. So very glad that I got it turned in on Wednesday awaiting line edits now, which I think will come around pretty fast. Uh, for those of you waiting for magic reborn, I am so sorry, but I am not going to make that October 31st, uh, date.

10:55.31
Jeffe Kennedy
I would need to rework it. Um, my timeline for it. I've got to see if maybe I can get it done in November by November. Um, I'm hitting that 30 day extension thing.

11:10.72
Jeffe Kennedy
I'm, I'm beta reading a book for Minerva Spencer, her historical romance. She ended up canceling the pre-order for that. Um, and she told me take all the time I wanted to read it because, um, yeah, she just liked Even set up a new pre-order.

11:27.23
Jeffe Kennedy
I don't know why we're all having trouble making our deadlines. I don't know if it's, oh chaos, just chaos in the economy and the government, or we'd be doing better. That's the alternate timeline where Kamala was elected. I actually did finish my books on time and didn't have multiple revisions.

11:46.77
Jeffe Kennedy
Also, I am sort of coming back around to the self-care and the self-love thing. um I am trying to be very patient with myself because there's a lot going on.

11:58.12
Jeffe Kennedy
David was talking about what a big year it's been. You know, this whole building, the Casita has been huge. And, you know, having my mom come visit like this is great, but it's a big transition for her. it hasn't been easy. And having this book release, going on book tour. ah Yeah, it's just, it's huge. And, you know, we're still trying to be creative,

12:26.75
Jeffe Kennedy
in the face of of things that worry us and things that occupy our attention and energy.

12:36.00
Jeffe Kennedy
And you know, I I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm trying to get it sorted out in my head. um various levels of things. Uh, I was Corresponding with my my new friend, Leigh Bardugo, who I unexpectedly clicked with when I met met her at the tour party in Seattle. I'm thinking of Seattle.

12:58.52
Jeffe Kennedy
It's all blurring together. Uh, but so Leigh and I really hit it off for some reason, you know, you meet someone and just click like that and it was great. And so we started emailing, she is on book tour now. And so she was like, this has been an exhausting world. and But she did a Ted X talk at UC Davis that I saw a clip of, and I'd like to watch the whole thing, but she was talking about reframing the way we talk about creativity and creators.

13:27.75
Jeffe Kennedy
And I thought what she said was really smart when she was saying, when we ask someone, you know, like at a party and somebody says they're a writer instead of saying, oh are you published? what The way she put this is that we need to reward the act of creation. Oh, I want to see how she said this.

13:50.24
Jeffe Kennedy
She said, we've crew confused the reward for creating now I'm I need to just play it.

14:03.75
Jeffe Kennedy
ah in the age of likes and follows have confused the reward of creating being cretive the reward reward of creating with the reward of being praised for creating and and I've talked about this a lot right you know that Becoming addicted to the attention from people for, for creating right.

14:28.90
Jeffe Kennedy
And. One of the things that she talks about in there is instead of, if you meet someone at a party ah and they say that they're a writer, instead of saying, oh have you been published? You know, have I heard of you?

14:43.21
Jeffe Kennedy
All these things. Instead saying what kinds of stories resonate with you. Getting back to the creative part and what matters to us. And I talked a couple of weeks ago about Bubonicon and seeing George R. R. Martin at Bubonicon and chatting with him.

14:59.67
Jeffe Kennedy
about the awful thing that happened at Worldcon where somebody stood up in his panel and said, um since you're going to die soon, are you going to have someone else finish your last book for A Song of Ice and Fire?

15:14.05
Jeffe Kennedy
And, you know, there's this weird thing of like these parasocial relationships we have where people just don't seem to completely understand that the person they're talking to is a human being and and is a sensitive person creative human being. I mean, you have to be sensitive to, to write books, to, to make art. That's there's just no way around that And you know, for someone to stand up and say, well, since you're going to be dead soon and here is the thing that I want, it's really just incredible. And so it's like the product has become more important than the person making it or than the act of creation.

15:57.71
Jeffe Kennedy
And you know, if it's taking George a long time to write this book, well, you know, maybe it's his masterwork. Maybe you know that this is what the act of creation requires.

16:09.86
Jeffe Kennedy
And it's difficult because we've we're also commodifying our art, right? Where you know, using it to pay the mortgage, but keep the lights on and all of this.

16:22.32
Jeffe Kennedy
So, you know, finding a place in the midst of those things is is really difficult. And I think it's hard for people to understand because they look at books, they look at writers, and they see the glamorous aspects of it. They see the enviable aspects, um you know, the product, and don't really come back to like the person who was doing it And I'm not one to ever go on social media. I saw someone on social media the other day saying, you know, oh, please be kind to authors right now because a lot of us are having a hard time because Amazon sales are down. And, um you know, I don't know if people aren't spending money in this economy or whatever.

17:10.96
Jeffe Kennedy
ah You know, you don't have to be. kind to authors right now and worry about how we're making a living, you know, please don't pirate our books. Uh, that, that sucks but because you are literally taking money away from us that we need to live because most of us are not rich, but you know, it's not incumbent on you to take care of us, but it's also incumbent on all of us to remember that, um, everybody is

17:43.53
Jeffe Kennedy
I love the saying, you know, that everybody is fighting a battle that you know, nothing about, right. That, you know, everybody is struggling with things, even if they seem to be, you know, fabulously successful, you know, we are all human beings and we all have stuff that we are, you know, working to get through problems. We are struggling to solve and,

18:10.70
Jeffe Kennedy
you know, and sometimes it's not even us. Sometimes it's like the other people in our lives that we're taking care of. So, um, yeah, so I'm, I'm reading that book by Minerva. I set this out. I don't know if I showed it to you all already, but look what I got at Bubonicon.

18:28.93
Jeffe Kennedy
It's T Kingfisher's new hemlock and silver book. This is the Waterstones exclusive edition and look at the beautiful sprayed edges on this. It's such a gorgeous book and I can't wait to read this.

18:42.64
Jeffe Kennedy
I saw that the new day JD Robb downloaded to my Kindle and I was like, Oh, I didn't remember it was coming out. I'm so excited to read that. ah Maybe I'll just go lock myself in a room and read nonstop for a few days.

18:56.74
Jeffe Kennedy
That might be good. Like decompress. But anyway, I'm hoping

19:06.50
Jeffe Kennedy
Magic Reborn, see if I can get that written. And I will let you all know what the new release date will be. Some of this will depend on getting these line edits back.

19:20.06
Jeffe Kennedy
This has been the summer of traditional publishing responsibilities. I kind of wish I'd gotten Magic Reborn done first, but I didn't. And so there we are.

19:34.93
Jeffe Kennedy
All right. Well, on that note, I think I will. oh I do have one more thing to tell you. ah I am getting ah and I'm having an interview. I'm interviewing, I guess, a potential social media assistant tomorrow.

19:54.67
Jeffe Kennedy
Thank you to John Ajuda Barr for the recommendation. i will be. chatting with her tomorrow and looking forward to maybe offload loading that responsibility.

20:06.89
Jeffe Kennedy
So hopefully, ah that didn't screw up too much. I'm seeing this has been like periodically freezing and I'm just talking anyway, but it looks like maybe it did weird sounds things there for a while. Hopefully not.

20:21.69
Jeffe Kennedy
Uh, apologies if it did, uh, low production value. Um, yeah, so I will. I hope you all have a great weekend. I hope that you get to celebrate some acts of creation and I will talk to you all on Tuesday.

20:39.66
Jeffe Kennedy
You all take care. Bye-bye.