Russ Ewell sits down with Greg Bodzioch and Ray Kim to discuss the background and growth of E-Sports. What began as an effort to have kids with both typical and special needs play soccer together on a small Foster City field, has now expanded nationally and internationally, and grown into multiple programs, including E-Soccer, E-Hoops, E-Karate, and more, partnering with schools like USF and St. Mary’s. Advocacy and inclusion for people with special needs is crucial, but, as USF’s slogan indicate, we can “change the world from here.”
Episode References
Russ Ewell sits down with Greg Bodzioch and Ray Kim to discuss the background and growth of E-Sports. What began as an effort to have kids with both typical and special needs play soccer together on a small Foster City field, has now expanded nationally and internationally, and grown into multiple programs, including E-Soccer, E-Hoops, E-Karate, and more, partnering with schools like USF and St. Mary’s. Advocacy and inclusion for people with special needs is crucial, but, as USF’s slogan indicate, we can “change the world from here.”
Episode References
[inaudible][inaudible] welcome
Speaker 2:to the digital scribbler podcast. We're excited that you're listening to us. We hope you'll share it with your friends. It's a podcast. Our digital scribbler podcast is a podcast highlighting technologies for those with disabilities and inclusion programs that provide the tools for anyone to start their inclusion story. And so we want to be able to be advocates. We want to be big time encouragers. Uh, we hope to inspire you to innovation. Whether it's social innovation is technological innovation, um, whether it's bringing a program to your school, to your neighborhood, to your community, center, to your church, synagogue, a mosque, whatever it may be. We want to get you into, uh, helping, uh, bring together people who have disabilities with those who are typical. There are a lot of opinions out there about a lot of these different areas. Uh, we're not about opinions. We're about building opportunities to improve the quality of life for both those who are typical and those who all have special needs. And we think we improve the quality of life of typical kids when they're able to engage with and learn that not everyone is the same. And that part of making life rich is being able to be involved in diversity in the 1960s and seventies, 1950s, sixties and seventies, that may have been about race, getting people that are African American to be engaged with an included with people who are white. I'll never forget, uh, watching a documentary on the Beatles. And uh, at one point the Beatles were performing, I believe in Jacksonville, Florida. And it was a segregated concert. And a young lady is interviewed in the documentary and she talks about the fact that the Beatles said they were not going to perform for a segregated audience. And as a result, it was integrated. And for the first time in her life, she sat and a concert next to people who are white. When I see that kind of thing, I think that's what we're trying to do is we're trying to make it so that someone who grows up without any special needs feels comfortable in not afraid. I know when I was in a school in third grade, there was a young lady who had a neck brace, may have been in an accident or had some kind of disability. And I was afraid of her. And I think a lot of times people are afraid of people with special needs, afraid of people who have sicknesses, illnesses or deformities of some type caused by an accident and they pushed them away. And e-sports is not just about sports. It's about being able to find one of the best ways to teach our communities that there's nothing dangerous or unsafe. And there are people who even advocate, keep these kids out of classrooms, keep these kids out of schools. They get in the way of the performance and success of people who are typical. That's going to lead to a society that's going to have extreme views, uh, and polarization like we have today. And so we think e-sports is one of the ways that we can conquer some, these, uh, issues of exclusion of people based on a disability, based on a socioeconomic, even based on race, is that you get them all together in all of our programs are extraordinarily diverse people with disabilities, with people who are typical. There are people that are of all different races, languages, all different religions because that's what we think ought to take place. I have with us today a ray Kim who has been a part of building and running the hoops program and Greg Bods Yak has been part of building the original e-sport, which is east soccer and a, they're here today to give us sort of an update. But I want to start out by asking them, uh, do you remember how all of this got started? Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's cool because I think back to, uh, the year 2000 riding in a car with the rest and, and talking about and talking about your kids. And it's funny how one car ride with two friends can, can, uh, start something that, you know, many years later is just grown into something changing so many lives. But I do, I remember our car ride and I remember us talking about growing up playing sports. I played soccer growing up of course. And you know, it was all in a competitive soccer still play to this day and, and you talking about your basketball and, and uh, talking about your kids and your boys and some of the different challenges they were going through. I'm trying to find their way. And, and as with their special needs and navy navigating it with, you know, trying to play baseball and, and uh, you know, long story short, I remember us discussing how wish there was a way we could get your kids and some of the other kids that we knew that were typical together so that they could build friendships, learn a sport, and have that kind of experience. And I just, that conversation that day, you being a dad with kids going through something, me having a passion for soccer and, and wanting to be able to find a way to use what I love to help other people. Um, that's where it all, that was the genesis of the idea. And I remember then meeting in a field with a couple of kids, a couple of families and bowed their middle school and foster city. So I was I think April of 2000, we had that car ride and then we got to give a shout out to foster city, California. Neither of us live there anymore, but um, they were really great. Yeah. Uh, to us, uh, letting us go from school to field your field to all kinds of things. What I remember best was, uh, we were at one of the parks and we've gotten quite big, this was before we had to start splitting it up cause people were coming from the East Bay Yep. From no downtown San Francisco. North Bay. Exactly. And we had to start splitting it up. But I remember we were there one day and a couple came running by and walking by and they sort of ask them questions and they said, hey, you know, do you guys, you guys meet here all the time? And we were like, yeah, yeah. And they said, well, you know what, um, we, we, we just bought a house down the street and say, oh congratulations. It's one of the reasons we bought it is we saw you guys here on Saturdays doing this program and we're like, we want to live in a community that does this kind of thing. Yeah. And I think it has an impact on people in, in amazing ways. Um, and, and what I remember, Greg, is the vision that we had, we were kind of crazy because I had learn all about soccer. I think I worked at the watch the World Cup that year. And you were like trying, cause I had grown up hating soccer thing. It was boring. They don't score enough, you know, all the typical American American thing. I think when it comes down to it as an American, I don't like, I didn't like being involved in this, what we were going to lose that
Speaker 3:and I'm, you know, America is gonna get killed on all the years. I had known you, I was trying to convert you to soccer, but remember if you remember a few years before that, so the World Cup had come to the u s that's right. And we had, we had games here in the bay area and I remember you watching some games and I started, I thought finally I saw him starting to win him over here. And by the time we hit 2000 we're having this conversation and you know, I, you know, and, and, and we've actually even had you in the early days, you had you out there playing goalie playing in the Games. I was like,[inaudible]
Speaker 2:enjoyed it. And it's funny, we were just playing basketball, my daughter yesterday and, uh, the ball was rolling and I, I, I, I kind of flipped, kicked it. Instead of doing what soccer and basketball, I would have normally put my foot on it and flipped it up like you do. You learned doing basketball. But yeah, and I really appreciate it. I mean my, I even have teams that I want to win. Usually Brazil is a always the top of my list and Argentina is always the top of my list. I haven't fallen in love with Germany or Holland yet, you know, in England. I don't know. I don't know. I just, for some reason I just don't get an England, England soccer team. The fact that I can even talk about that. Amazing. So we started there and we were actually dreaming and saying, you want it to be where, where when the kids in our program grow up, a lot of them were eight or younger. Uh, their friends and all of these kids have remained friends. Uh, and we wanted to be where some of them would be great athletes that were typical kids that took up, take up for and sort of protect the kids special needs. And we had guys go on to to, uh, perform really well, some in soccer and a summons worse, like wrestling some in basketball for their high school teams. Uh, and so it's been very, very, very, very encouraging. So do you guys remember how we expanded from II soccer to the other sports ideal?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean we started off, I started Amy and I, my wife, we started volunteering at the um, east soccer in San Francisco because there was a big deal that uh, because everybody had heard about what was going on in foster city and among our circle of friends. And uh, they started one in San Francisco. So we went there. We had our daughter was just a toddler and getting out. I just have a quick question. We had people from San Francisco coming down. We did, yes. Yes. So I, I, when we split up, we just sent people everywhere, right? Yeah. Well first, so we had, we started in foster city. We had people come in, like you said, from literally all different parts of the bay area. Different families had heard about it. And I think we first split and we had one program start on the East Bay in Pleasanton. That's right. But then, and so that took a chunk of people. All East Bay people went over and did that. But we kept growing and growing and so we, we realized, well the families coming from the south families coming from the north, let's start something. And so that's when we then started one down in Sunnyvale and then one up in San Francisco. And that's kind of when you, what you're talking about
Speaker 4:when you probably just moved to San Francisco at that time. That's right. And it was a, I mean, you know, we, the field was just down the street from our house. And then when we got there, there was, gosh, about 40 people just out there, some people from, uh, San Diego State University out there and just running around. We were like, this is incredible. And so, uh, you know, I grew up in high school playing soccer, so I was like, oh, soccer is great. And, and you didn't have all these, had you ever been to the foster city when, uh, I just don't remember. No, actually what we, we weren't living down here at all. So yeah, we, we had just heard about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. If friends. Yeah. And I, the reason I, the reason I point out the history of it is because I think a lot of times people when they want to start something like east soccer or any of the other eas that we have that we'll talk about, they, um, they think it's impossible. And so what I'm trying to say is we got to go on and foster city, but the people just came, they did. Right. And I think things become organic and then the people, I remember who it was. Yeah. Cause we had a lot of good coaches. The people went down to San Francisco and started. Right. And I think it's important to note that because a lot of times people go, well, did you and Greg go down there and run that too? No, we didn't have to because you had parents and coaches. We would train coaches in foster city. And then they got so trained that they then went to the, to the same school. And I remember they had a really good one in the Contra Costa County area. And so if you're out there and you're listening to this podcast, wherever you are in the world, whatever country, whatever a province or state you're living in, whatever village you might be living in, it's really important to understand that an idea spreads. And when that idea spreads and catches on, you're going to have people just launch them. And I think that's what ought to happen, is it just people sit down and launch them. And I used to be very strict about, hey, we've got to keep the code and do it this way. But what happens is it's really just important that people get the idea and they start to make it happen, happen their way. So I have a question. You were talking about, you know, going to the first, uh, e soccer, cause you played soccer. So what was that like?
Speaker 4:Uh, going into the first one, I, you know, it was, you know, I'd gone to different soccer camps and all that, but this was unreal because you had so many, one of those diverse, it brought in all, I mean Sampras schools, I had diverse place, but it brought in so many people from all, all districts in San Francisco. And what, what really stood out to me was that no one knew this was, it was hard to tell that there were kids there with special needs because there was so much fun happening and there's so much interaction happening. And
Speaker 2:Are you saying that we typically, when, when special needs kids were there, it wouldn't, if there was something that wouldn't allow that kind of fun or flexibility or something? Yes,
Speaker 4:absolutely. Because I mean, I've seen different things like that in the city in the past. Yeah. But it just was, it just seems so forced. It was just, and it was very clinical in one sense. It was like, all right, do this. And so these kids, when we went to the, the east soccer in San Francisco, these kids,
Speaker 2:uh, Shawn's US news. It was, they were like having fun but in a organized way, but it made the holes, you know, they were having fun. Well, they didn't want to leave after it was done. That was[inaudible] big party. I mean it was done at, you know, go from 11 to 12 and people would still be hanging around until I spoke with one of the things I wanted to make. One of the things I think is really important to understand for those who are listening and, and even remind us what makes it fun as inclusion. And a lot of people don't understand this, there are people that are part of our programs that don't understand the smile comes from being included. Yeah. And I want to make that point because a lot of the times what happens even in the programs that have launched is if you don't have typical kids there with special needs kids, venue lose inclusion. And more than anything else, e-sports is about inclusion. It's about someone saying, a typical kid saying, I want to care about, empathize with, learn from, and be friends with this, this kid with special needs. So when you have a special needs kid, I saw it, I've seen it so many times. It can't even begin to tell you when you have a kid with special needs, walk onto a field and the parents be told you can stay on the sideline and just enjoy the day. And that kid now is with a coach that's a more an adult and an and a coach that's appear. And so if you're 10 years old, you're with the 10 1112 year old kid who's typical and you're with a coach who's 24 25 maybe 30 and you're walking out into that field for many of these kids that have special needs, this is the first time anyone has ever said, I'm here because of you. Yeah. And I, I just, I can't make that point strongly enough because it's not about, we have ea a hoops now we have e fitness dance. It's not about the sport, right? It's not about the location warriors game earthquakes. It's not about that. It could be in your backyard. If you invite someone with special needs to the birthday party of your kid, you're going to get the same fun. And I think what happens is once a typical kid is starts to interact with a kid who maybe can't walk, can't communicate physically, can't maybe do everything with their body that they wish they could do, there becomes a, a silent communication. It's almost near spiritual that that that takes place between these kids that you can't see and you can't feel. Phil Jackson talks about that a lot in basketball, the Chicago Bulls and the Jordan, that there was a spiritual element, a a spirit spirit coming together. Personalities and I don't think we always appreciate just how extraordinary inclusion is that you could be sitting, eating, eating cupcakes together and if it's a typical kid with a special needs kid, with the typical kid with special needs kid, there is going to be a a synergy. Yes. That takes place. That is inexplicable to human logic. Like you couldn't ever figure out that was what would be what would happen. Right. But it happens and I can't emphasize that enough because I want our, I hope our, I hope we'll get a lot of our coaches and other people to listen to understand that the, the, even the reason adults need to go learn how to coach is because it does something for you. Right. It changes you. And so I, I think that's what you noticed when you went and saw that joy sometimes. I, you know, I've been doing this since we founded it whenever it was and, and, and working on the concepts and fighting really hard to keep it inclusive. Cause there were times where I saw it drifting into being only special needs kids. I said okay, we can do this. Right. And we used to work really hard to recruit middle school kids and teenagers to be a part of it. I'm not, I, I'd like to hear more about your work in that area, but that's not my, I want us to remember now. Let me just jump to, one of the things I wanted to ask you is when did, when did you, do you remember how he hoops came about? Because I remember our original conversation about the hoops, I don't know if you were in those when we were theorizing about it, but then, then you guys took it. So were you a part of those original conversations? No, I wasn't actually. So Greg, we were theorizing about a bunch of different, we used to dream about a bunch of different yeah. E sports programs. Do you remember what they were?
Speaker 3:Well, I remember, so we started soccer in 2000. Yeah. And then, um, one of the things that caught on quickly as we had ie karate start up in 2003. Yeah, that's right. And so, uh, and now Brendan and Kim Marie with Kimra started that. Yep. They started out with Brendan and Kim in here and then park and then the Myers family heard about it. That's right. And they started one in San Jose. And so those are still going strong to this day. So I think that was when that started. We went, oh wait a second, this cause and karate and soccer are so opposite. You're doing forms and you're standing in one spot when you're doing karate and soccer you run out. So we're like wow we can we what we're learning what we're doing this, this concept, this inclusion sports. It can, it can go at any sport. And I think it was right after that that hoops started on a small scale in San Jose for a short time. Um, it was kind of off and on. And then it was actually when and Amy started.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Cause cause I remember being, I remember I thought he hoops right away because all the basketball exactly what I thought it's going to be. It's going to be too hard. It's going to be too hard to make the beginning. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well and it was, and in what we talked about was one of the reasons, and you I think alluded to this, well mountain mountain I this time, but we've talked about this before, is that we started with soccer cause you had read an article where you saw, hey, I'd have fought this nation comes quicker. You can get on a soccer field, just get behind the ball and kick and God tribute. That's your basketball. If you can't dribble a ball, which is a much harder basic skill at a basic level, right? It's hard to contribute. And so we were learning, so we started with soccer. But yeah,
Speaker 2:I think what happened is that once we mastered the process of east soccer and once Brendan and Kim, um, um, um, I think the Stephenson's were involved there like the Myers, I think once, once, once we mastered those two, I think, you know, I know that Larry Green, he started doing some you hoops in San Jose's, but then once we started mastering those two, I think it seems to me a number of coaches that were originally in those programs are some of the coaches who went over into the WHO that. And so he, who's really came alive. That's right. Uh, with ray and the team there. So tell me, ray, how did you guys, how did you guys get that thing going? Like, how did that turn into something more than like it got going originally, like Greg said in San Jose for a little bit, but it didn't, it didn't explode, uh, on the level that it's exploded now.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Well, I mean, we are familiar with e soccer because my a kids had gone to it. Yup. Um, and my, uh, wife had gone to USF and she was alumni there and so she still has some contacts there. I had a really good friend of mine named Nyeem Tate, who was at east soccer coach actually. Okay. And he was also a student at USF at the time. And he was also, he had also played some basketball and junior college. And so I didn't know that. I didn't only play basketball yeah. At a skyline actually. And, um, so him and I started talking and he was like, Hey, you know, we got e soccer, but he's like, I had this thought about basketball and, uh, because I want, you know, the USF, I've, I've, I kind of ran into the coach here and kind of let them know what I'm about at that same, around the same time my son, um, was not really into soccer because there was just, that just wasn't his thing. My daughter was all in. Yeah. So I thought, okay, well maybe I thought maybe my son might be into something that's indoors. Yes. Yeah. Uh, it's a different environment and with his sensory things. And he liked basketball. And so I said, name, let's, let's put our heads together. And we had some other friends like, uh, Martin and Janette OJ and a few others, others. And we had set up a meeting with, um, at that time, coach Rex Walters, he played for the, uh, he played for Kansas. He was also, um, he played for who? For Kansas. Yeah. And, uh, he also was on, um, he played for the 76[inaudible] for about six years in the NBA. And so he was a coach and, uh, we said, hey, we have this idea that will actually involve some of the, uh, students, student athletes. And upon on me, he was like, this is exactly what we've been looking for for our, for our, uh, u s basketball players. He says something that's gonna help them get more involved in the community. And from that point on, I talked to Greg cause I think the blueprint and the foundation was totally laid down with the e soccer and he karate. And so we already had a blueprint to follow and people who are passionate about inclusion. Yeah. And so a lot of their r e soccer coaches were also interested in basketball, um, at the time. And so we partnered up, uh, we met together with the athletic director there at USF and they said, let's, let's try this out at the gym. And in soon enough, kind of, Russell, you were saying earlier, how much do the people mentoring or coaching got out of it? You see these huge division one athletes crawling on their knees, getting down dribbling, and they're having so much fun with these kids, right? And they're, they're discovering this world of inclusion and they don't get much, um, interaction with kids with special needs because they have, they have got their own, you know, academics and collegiate basketball going on, but they just fell in love with it. So the coaching staff said, this needs to continue because we are s it's a win win. We're seeing the community coming out and we're seeing our up. It was then the, a women's basketball team got involved and then some of the student population gardens
Speaker 2:now, how incredible is the University of San Francisco home of Bill Russell? That's right. Winfred Boines one of the great ball players played on Bobby Gerans team. Bobby John was on that team. I used to love that team. How incredible was the culture and leadership at the University of San Francisco that they would do that? What is it about that school?
Speaker 4:You know, it's interesting because their motto, the school model, there's changed the world from here. Now you went to cow, right?
Speaker 2:I went to cal. Do you regret it now? No. Do you wish you went to the University of San Francisco? Are you now realizing that the greatest educational institution in the bay area is the University of San Francisco? So you do, do you see the light yet? All right. That's that Don's right. That's the dawn's. Yep. Okay. So there's, that's what their model is. What again,
Speaker 4:changed the world from here? Man,
Speaker 2:what an incredible, I just think, imagine, and it's one of the best universities in the country, but imagine if the top 400 universities in the country all had that model, changed the world from here. That's, I mean, what an incredibly, and they've done incredible stuff. I've seen the pictures and I've seen you at, they have some event you guys go to. Uh, well how many kids are involved in the, the, the WHO's program roughly?
Speaker 4:Um, well, we have, each season we have about roughly 50 to 60 kids. Wow.
Speaker 2:And has it gone to any other locations?
Speaker 4:Uh, you know, it's, it's actually stayed primarily at USAA, but it's actually pulled in other schools in the city. Saint Mary's.
Speaker 2:They have their, yeah. Yes. I, I'm thinking about the actual, the, that struck one session, but yeah, it's like a thing you hoops in general. It's, yeah, it's gone to what St Mary's. I went to St Mary's and, and kind of the following the blueprint that you guys did with USF and how to work with their athletes. And all same thing started at Saint Mary's but their men's and women's teams. And then in the past year we have new programs out in Hercules and in Oakland, um, out in riverbank. That's right near Modesto. So yeah, I mean we've got, I think there's five or six new programs now, so I just want to be able to know about that and we'll put some, uh, links to the, uh, the different programs in the, uh, the description of the podcast. But, um, so I, you know, I want to get, I want to podcast, sometimes we get into detail about what you guys are done, what the University of San Francisco has done. Cause I think what you've done in San Francisco is, yeah, it's groundbreaking. It is. Um, and again, you took a creative route of saying, um, I want my kids involved in inclusion. They're not exactly excited. Or one of them is not exactly excited about the outdoor inclusion, which that's how I felt about playing football and Michigan. I was like, I'm not excited about the outdoors. Give me indoors. And I become investible player. So I want to hear him
Speaker 5:more about that. We have a lot we can talk about, about that. Go into the details of how you, how you recruit your coaches. How do you get the word out to your family?
Speaker 1:[inaudible] thank you.
Speaker 5:You're listening to the digital scribbler podcast. If you like what you're hearing, subscribe to the feed and please leave a five star rating and brightness or review. Also make sure to check out digital scribblers.com to learn more about our apps, products, and efforts to help bring the inclusion into the mainstream. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next.