Female leadership and the power of advertising in driving change, with Rosie Arnold

To access the available transcript please use the following link: https://bit.ly/3oymjPl

Advertising powerhouse and inspirational female leader, Rosie Arnold, started her career in advertising moonlighting at a tiny creative hot shop called Bartle Bogle Hegarty in 1983 while studying Fine Art at Central St Martins. Under the mentorship of Sir John Hegarty himself, Rosie worked her way to the top, resulting in a position on the board and as Executive Creative Director. 

Her motivation and passion to do mould-breaking creative work with like-minded people saw her lead some of the most influential advertising campaigns in the UK. From flipping the lense on Pretty Polly stockings to using a catchy rap song to promote Yeo valley yoghurt, her ability to communicate by thinking outside of the box is second-to-none. 

We talk to Rosie to find out what it is like to be a female leader in what was - and to some extent still is - a heavily male-dominated industry. We are also going to delve into creative responsibility and advertising’s role in society. Ending with some creative tips for you and your students…

Rosie’s website: https://rosiearnold.co.uk/ 

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Transcript

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Matt Moseley:

Hello, and welcome to the Teach, Inspire, Create podcast. I'm your host, Matt Moseley, Chief Examiner for Art and Design at the UAL Awarding Body. In this series, I'll be talking to artists and creative industry leaders under the lenses of three main themes: teaching, inspiring, and creating. Today, my guest is Rosie Arnold. Rosie is an advertising powerhouse, an inspirational female leader. Rosie started her career in advertising, moonlighting as a tiny creative hot shop called Bartle, Bogle, Hegarty in 1983, whilst studying fine art at Central Saint Martins. Under the mentorship of Sir John Hegarty himself, Rosie worked her way to the top, resulting in a position on the board and as an executive creative director. Her motivation and passion to do mould-breaking creative work with like-minded people saw her lead some of the most influential advertising campaigns in the UK, from flipping the lens on Pretty Polly stockings to using a catchy rap song to promote Yeo Valley yogurt, her ability to communicate by thinking outside the box is second to none.

Matt Moseley:

In this conversation, I'm interested to hear from Rosie about what it's like to be a female leader in what was, and to some extent, still is, a heavily male dominated industry. We are also going to delve into creative responsibility and advertising's role in society and for driving change.

Matt Moseley:

There is a transcript available for this episode. Please click the link in the episode description so you can read as you listen.

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Matt Moseley:

Hello, Rosie.

Rosie Arnold:

Hello, Matt.

Matt Moseley:

Thank you very much for joining us today. It's a real pleasure to have you here at London College of Communication for the Teach Inspire Create podcast.

Rosie Arnold:

Great to be here.

Matt Moseley:

As one of our inspirational guests, one of our first questions is always about your education experience, so whether or not there was an inspirational teacher or an experience within education that sort of started you on your path to where you are now?

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah, I really loved art when I was at school. And I had a couple of really amazing teachers, Rob Walner and Nick. They really made sure that we explored all different sorts of art. So we went to fantastic life drawing classes in the evening with this guy called Sam Rayburn. But much as I loved art, I realised that, a) I wasn't probably the next Picasso, much as I'd like to have been, and actually, that it was ideas that really inspired me. And I did a foundation course at Bournemouth, in that, you sample everything, so you do a bit of photography, a bit of sculpture, a bit of whatever. And I went into graphics because that seemed to be, one, something I might get a job at, and I liked illustration and photography, and it encompassed all of that. And I was lucky enough to get into Central Saint Martins to do graphic design. And it became clear to me that actually you really were only meant to have one discipline.

Matt Moseley:

Right, okay.

Rosie Arnold:

And I felt disappointed about that because I was brimming with ideas, and I like to explore all of them, you know, so I'm going to invent a game and I'm going to design it and I'm going to illustrate it. And it was my boyfriend at the time, but then my husband, who said, "Well, why not advertising? Because that's all about ideas." So I went to the library and I found the books called D&AD, which is design and art direction. And they're an awards scheme that recognises the very best in those disciplines from around the world. And I looked through these annuals and I was like, "This is exactly what I want to do." Because you could do posters, television, radio, and you got to think of the idea, and then you worked with the best practitioners.

Rosie Arnold:

So I found the people who created some of the ads that I really loved, looked their names up at the back of this annual and found out the companies they work for, and rang them up and said, "Please come and come and see you with my portfolio?" After a lot of phone calls and a lot of, "Come next week. Oh no, don't come next week." I got to see quite a few people, who basically laughed and me because my portfolio was just full of art and illustration. And they were like, "Well, you actually have to think of some ads and do some speculative ads, to get a job or even a placement."

Rosie Arnold:

And I was very lucky because I met a very rare thing, which was a female art director called Judy Smith. And I owe her so much. And she was working at what was the best agency, probably in the world at the time, which was called Collett, Dickenson Pearce. And she said, "Go on D&AD evening courses, but keep coming back to see me." So I did that and I built up a portfolio with her help. And then I did quite a few placements. So that's like working in the holidays in CDP.

Rosie Arnold:

And then they told me in the Christmas, that a little hot shop called Bartle Bogle Hegarty, which was just new and started, was looking for some freelance work over Christmas. So I had all my portfolio up in an exhibition and they said, "Yes, John Hegarty will see you tomorrow morning." And this was the afternoon. And there was no way I could get my work down to put in a portfolio. So I had to stay up all night and redraw the whole portfolio, and then go and see John in the morning. And I also didn't have a partner and you really need to work as a team. So I had to pretend that I had a partner, and I had a really good friend who was in America and she was coming back at the weekend.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. Sounds like a good friend. This is a really good friend.

Rosie Arnold:

So I said, "Oh yes, yes, I have got a partner. So we can work on it together at the weekend." Lie, lie, lie. So I worked on it at the weekend, and when Alexis got back, I went, "You've just got to come in with me and sit there in the office and get paid. Please just pretend that you are working with me."

Matt Moseley:

Wow, yeah.

Rosie Arnold:

So John did actually hire us for the freelance work, and subsequently, Alexis then did go into advertising, funnily enough, so she got the bug too.

Matt Moseley:

Really? So she was maybe inspired by that experienced.

Rosie Arnold:

Inspired, yeah. So that's a very, long-winded, I'm so sorry about that, but that's exactly how I got in.

Matt Moseley:

No, that's brilliant.

Rosie Arnold:

It was through perseverance and the kindness of people. It's one thing I encourage everybody to do, which is, find a guru to get into the industry.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. I mean, also while you were talking about your story, I was listening and I was just hearing so many amazing creative attributes coming out at such a young age as well, obviously, that inquisitive mind in terms of your interests. And it really sounds as though networking and communication skills are really important in what you do as well, in terms of making those connections with people.

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah. It is a communication business, so we are communicating through our work to huge audiences. So I think you do have to be a good communicator. That doesn't mean you have to be an extrovert necessarily. Because I mean, I know I am, but actually quite often in a creative team, you've got the chatty one like me, and then you might have a more introverted, quiet person. So I wouldn't want to put people off who felt that they weren't prepared to get out there and chat. I mean, one of the wonderful things about it as a business or an industry is it is a meritocracy. So actually the ideas you have is how you are judged. And so you can be quiet and have great ideas and people will see that, so I really like that about the industry.

Matt Moseley:

And in that, how important is collaboration in advertising?

Rosie Arnold:

Well, it used to be, and I think it probably still is, agencies like to hire teams. Because there is something really powerful about the ability to bounce ideas off each other. But the other thing that I don't think people think about is, you might have an idea and then you go, "Oh no, no, no, no, that's too stupid." But the other person might go, "No, hang on a minute. If we do it like this, it could be great." So it also gives you the confidence maybe to pursue something that you can't see a way out of. And I think teamwork does work really, really well.

Matt Moseley:

So when you're working collaboratively, is there a certain way that you manage those working relationships?

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah. I think the two personalities have to get on really, and I think you have to be open to everything, because there's nothing that kills an idea quicker than somebody's negativity about, "No, no, no." I think you have to listen and take it seriously. Because it's quite an exposing thing to do, to have an idea in front of somebody, because we're all slightly scared that we're going to be silly, or it's going to be rejected, or it's going to expose some inner part of us, that you might not be so good. So I think you have to go into that with a very open mind and a kindness to each other.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. You also mentioned early adverts that you liked, do you still remember any of those?

Rosie Arnold:

Oh my god. So when I grew up, there was only three channels on telly, so everybody would watch the same program, and only one of those channels had advertising. So we all knew all the ads verbatim. And there was a really wonderful creative called John Webster, who, he was like, absolutely phenomenal man in the industry, sadly, no longer with us. And he created something called the Cresta bear, which was for this lemonade drink, and it was a polar bear who'd go, "It's frothy, man!" And we all spent ages trying to replicate. And at the same time, he would pump his elbow, going, "Frothy, man!" And we'd all just copy that as we ran around the playground. But yeah, it was great.

Matt Moseley:

When you start to take on an advertising project, how do you identify the story?

Rosie Arnold:

What happens, just so you know, in an advertising agency, there's essentially three, four departments. So just to sort of broadly give you an idea. There is a strategy department, the planners. So they will work with the client to look at what product the client wants to promote. What is the target audience? Who are they talking to? What age group are they? What's their socioeconomic background? And what is the thing about this new product or this old product that is going to grab people? So they do quite a lot of research. Every agency has its own different brief, but essentially they work together on a brief, which has got some research learnings about who's going to want to buy this product and why, and it can be an emotional thing or it can be a unique selling point, which is very rare these days.

Rosie Arnold:

So with Levi's, for instance, they might have gone, well, they were the original jeans, so they were the first jeans that were made. And then this year we're promoting it with a stretch. Or if it's a car, they might have some new little widget on the car. Or it might be something emotional. So it might be the Christmas ads which are going, "We want the spirit of Christmas and we want people to be kinder to each other." So as a creative, you get the brief, which will have been worked on by the client and the strategy department.

Rosie Arnold:

There's also an account handing department, which will sort out the finances of the client relationship and help sell the ad. And then there's a production department which helps bring it to life. And obviously, there's a creative department, which are the ones that have the ideas.

Rosie Arnold:

So I would get a brief with my partner and it would say, well, for instance, I worked on Yeo Valley, and that was a very clear brief, which was, "We are a real farm and lots of places are pretending to be one. We want to be populous, so we want to talk to everybody. We don't want organic produce to just be for upmarket people. And we'd really like people to pronounce our name correctly. It's yo, not yeo." So that was a very clear brief. And so then as a creator team, you go away and you try and bring that to life. And for that, I did a rap song with farmers.

Matt Moseley:

I remember it.

Rosie Arnold:

It was very corny at the time. People were like, "What are you doing, Rosie?" But I was like, "It's going to be big and populist, and it's going to get the name across." It ticked all those boxes.

Matt Moseley:

It did. And it was unexpected as well. So, obviously, you were a creative within advertising. So I know you sort of talked about that a little bit. Can you give our listeners a definition of what a creative in advertising or an advertising executive does?

Rosie Arnold:

Well, as you start, as a creative, you are an art director or a copywriter, and you think of the ideas. The lines are a little bit blurred between art direct and copywriter. Because in the past there was much more copy written. But as the art director or as a team, the look and feel falls more on your plate and you actually design the layout of the poster or the print ad, or the type on the screen. But you both would look at lots of directors reels to see who you're going to work with. As an art director, I'd look at illustrators and photographers. You actually go on the shoots, which is really exciting, because it means you travel, which I love. But also, the privilege of working with some real talents. I mean, the fact I can sit and look at a photographer and go, I work with incredible photographers, is a real honour.

Matt Moseley:

And I suppose they're bringing your idea to life as well, isn't it?

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah, they do. And then you're custodian of that. So even if I'm working with this great photographer, I don't just go, "Here it is, over to you." I'm standing in the background, nagging him about, "No, I didn't see it like that, no, no, don't like that." Or, "That's wonderful. Can we have a bit more of that."

Matt Moseley:

Are there challenges in those relationships then?

Rosie Arnold:

Oh my god, yes.

Matt Moseley:

Because I imagine there's quite a lot of ego on sometimes.

Rosie Arnold:

Well, it can get very tricky, particularly on film shoots, because if the client is there, the client will have their agenda, and then you've got your agenda, which is, you want your idea to come across in the best possible way. The client wants the product to be brilliant. And then the director is thinking about how they're going to get the best film. So there's a lot of voices going on. That takes quite a lot of handling. Because what you don't want to do is constantly interrupt the flow and the director and things. But then on the other hand, you do need to be mindful about, are you getting the work that you want, are you getting the shots that you want, is the pack looking correct in that situation? And then there's, are the performances right?

Matt Moseley:

So you're doing a touch of direction as well then?

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah.

Matt Moseley:

So you kind of have to be quite multifaceted in what you're doing.

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah. I've always felt, when I've had an idea for something, I've actually sort of almost filmed it in my head, if that makes any sense. So I think trying to hang onto that, of course it's never exactly how you see it, but then if you can hang onto that idea, you can say, "Well, I really feel the actress in this moment should be looking sadder, or happier, or I don't think she's believable." And the directors are normally quite good on that, but you just need to keep in your mind what the intent is.

Matt Moseley:

And as the advertiser or the advertising agency, the representative of that, are you ultimately responsible for delivering the advert?

Rosie Arnold:

The agency is, yes, absolutely.

Matt Moseley:

It falls to you.

Rosie Arnold:

We're a team, but yeah.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah.

Rosie Arnold:

I mean, the reality is, as a creative, you are at the sharp end, so you get the glory and you get the ignominy. Even if it's not your fault when something turns out rubbish, you feel that it is, you feel like you're going to have egg on your face. I always say to clients, the worst thing they can do and the best thing they can do is just go, trust us. Because if they trust you and let you get on with it, you work so hard because you're really terrified that you're going to do a bad job. And if they don't trust you and they're all over it and turns out a bad job, you can sort of go, "Yeah, well, it would have been good if you hadn't really interfered." So there's not quite so much ignominy if you're not left to your own devices.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. I mean, that brings me to a point I wanted to talk to you about, which I know you're interested in, about this idea of responsibility. So obviously, advertising is probably the most widely consumed form of art, of creative art, of visual communication, isn't it? It is everywhere. How do you manage your principles against the client?

Rosie Arnold:

Right. This is so interesting because, having been at art school, I had a lot of criticism about going into advertising. And as I said at the time, it wasn't an advertising course. But I always felt that it was better to be in a position of power where you could shape and change things than be on the outside criticising it. So I have spent a lot of my career trying to do good with the tools that I have in front of me. So for instance, I think people almost laugh about it now, I don't, which is getting more diversity into advertising. So people go, "Oh god, they've ticked every box." And you go, "Well, great. Isn't that great? Isn't that much better than just constantly having a white family with the wife in the kitchen and two perfect kids?"

Rosie Arnold:

And if you look back, so I was in the '80s and '90s, and '00s, it was always a man driving the car, it was always a woman in the kitchen, it was always a white family, the hero was always white. And so I've done a lot to try and subliminally changing things. I also was president of D&AD in 2012, which was its 50th year, but I also introduced a new pencil, called the white pencil, which is awarded to work that does good in the world. And I did that as a point to encourage people, clients, to use their communication tools to do good. It's also become a little bit of a sharp issue, because I think big businesses are taking note of it, and there's a lot of white washing going on. But I would almost rather that they have some responsibility and feel the need to look at what they're doing, what the communication they're doing, what products they're producing, I'd rather that than, just not tackling the issues at all.

Rosie Arnold:

And there are still massive hurdles in terms of making sure there's diversity in the casting. I've had more arguments in my entire career about using black people in ads. And I'm proud of myself that I've fought so hard to include diversity in it. So there is stuff that you can do that is good. And we are in a position of such power that you can change things. So I'm excited by that.

Matt Moseley:

Great. You mentioned earlier about when you came out of art school and you decided to go into advertising, there was a bit of kickback from some of your friends or colleagues or peers about this decision to go into what we're seeing is a commercial area. And there's often this conflicting art argument between credible, authentic, fine arts, and the commercial aspects of the creative industries. How does that sit with you?

Rosie Arnold:

It's interesting because if I'm really honest, I think art also is caught up in a lot of commercialism too. I feel that at least I can be really open and honest if you're in advertising. And I think that it's very hidden if you're a painter or an artist. You have to play the game, unfortunately, in whatever world you are. So you might be a really fantastic artist, unless you're seen and heard and you've got to find a way of getting out there, it's quite hard to do that without engaging in different sorts of self promotion, even if it's a tiny little way, but you are actually entering the world of advertising, albeit yourself. Yeah. So it's a funny old thing, because of course, it's always been the bad guy.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. Environmental issues, I think is something that you're impassioned about. Do you see some positive changes in terms of the ways things are advertised? Is that being fed into the industry in the way things are communicated?

Rosie Arnold:

I really do. What I'm excited about is, I think that big corporations, not just because of advertising actually, but because there is so much pressure now to actually be mindful of about what you're doing to the environment, I mean, it's a massive issue for all of us, but I'm pleased to see that we are all sitting up and taking notice of it and clients are too. I just think the more we can do, the more we can make people sit up and take notice, the better. And actually, the way of doing it is through communication, it is through advertising. So back to that moral thing about, "Oh, isn't advertising bad?" No, it's not. It's the best way to communicate, if you want people to change.

Matt Moseley:

Great. We're sort of segueing into the inspire section.

Speaker 9:

Inspire.

Speaker 10:

Inspire.

Speaker 11:

Inspire.

Speaker 12:

Inspire.

Matt Moseley:

As someone who's obviously got quite strong ethical code, what are those challenges that you've faced and how did you overcome them at the time?

Rosie Arnold:

That's such a broad question. Okay, I can tell you a story about one of the first ads.

Matt Moseley:

A story would be wonderful, yes.

Rosie Arnold:

You'd like the story. So the first TV ad I did was for stockings, for Pretty Polly. It was the third in a campaign, and it was in the '80s. You have to show their stockings, so it already becomes quite sexist. And I felt very strongly that I was advertising to women, rather than to men. I didn't want to objectivise women. So I had this idea, it was actually based on something that happened when I was a little girl, my mom was driving at night and the car broke down, and she fixed the fan belt, I don't know whether you have fan belts in engines anymore, but she fixed the fan belt with her stocking. So I based that whole ad on this. So it was an independent woman driving the car on her own. I made it much more glamorous than mom, obviously.

Matt Moseley:

Of course, yeah.

Rosie Arnold:

And she pulls over to the side of the road, she lifts her skirt, so it's non-salacious. She looks gorgeous, obviously, because you want to look gorgeous as a woman. But it's not like, this is a sexual plaything. And fixes the car. And it was so funny, in thinking this idea, I was like, "Great, great god, I love this." And then I was like, "Oh my god!" Because the end line had to be, "So smooth, nine out of 10 cats prefer them." That was the end line. I was like, "How the hell am I going to get that in this ad?" Because it was like make or break. And then I remembered that vintage Jaguars have a Jaguar emblem, which is the cat, on the front.

Matt Moseley:

Very good, yeah.

Rosie Arnold:

So when she slams the bonnet of the car, there is a Jaguar cat emblem on the bonnet, and that's where the ad ends, and you just hear the engine rev, and off she goes, "So smooth, nine out of 10 cats prefer them."

Rosie Arnold:

So that was a very early way of me going, "Right, I'll do this, but I'm going to-"

Matt Moseley:

You're going to disrupt the stereotype and what's come before.

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah.

Matt Moseley:

Obviously, you mentioned that you worked in this industry in the '80s and '90s, which, I wondered whether or not, as a woman becoming an executive, being disruptive within the industry, and trying to change things, what that experience had been like?

Rosie Arnold:

Well, it was madmen, it really was. But I think the truth is, the world has been blind to women and lots of disadvantaged people. And that was the world we grew up in, so you just made the best of it. And I felt the only way forward was just to be really good at what I did, because then it's unarguable. There are a lot of stuff that I look back and go, "God, it was crazy." But at the time, you just have to do the best you can in the circumstances.

Matt Moseley:

Of course.

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah, I mean, it's easy now with hindsight to go, "God, that was terrible." And in fact, really interestingly, Bridget Jones's Diary, the film, was on telly the other day, I couldn't watch it. And we all thought it was a comedy and laughed our heads off about it. And maybe I've got a bit weird, but suddenly, looking back on it, there's a bit at the beginning, I think we only got to the first few minutes because she gets into the lift at work and they're, "Oh, Jones, you've got that naughty little skirt on." And you're like, "This is terrible!" And we all just thought it was the funniest film, and that's just how it was. And if you look back at that film, it will give you a pretty good idea about the environment.

Matt Moseley:

Right, so it's pretty accurate as a representation?

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah. I mean, but the fact that that film we all could look at and find a comedy, whereas now, I was just like, "What?" So it was a bit like that. I mean, I got married very young, which I think was quite helpful to me. It sort of put me outside that level. And I suppose it made me treated more seriously by people, which was great.

Rosie Arnold:

I also was in really great agency. So when I went to BBH, there was a woman called Barbara Noakes who was partnered with John Hegarty. As I said before, there were very few female creatives, I think there were three in the whole industry.

Matt Moseley:

Wow. Okay.

Rosie Arnold:

I can name them. Barbara Nokes, Cathy Heng , Judy Smith. Maybe there's a couple more that I've forgotten about, but that was it. But because I was in an agency where there was a senior woman, and when Alexis left to work in America and I got a partner, I got a woman called Kiki Kendrick, so we were the only girl team. So we actually didn't think about it being unusual.

Matt Moseley:

No, I guess, because when you were working together, you were just working in a female partnership.

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah. And John is a really fantastic enlightened guy. There was a lot of very misogynist creative directors in the industry at the time, John is not, John is a really inspirational great guy, I really owe so much to him. And I think he made BBH an environment that was a good place to work. I mean, yes, it was sexist in lots of ways, but actually, at the time, it was pretty broadminded.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. So, obviously, in your time in the industry, obviously, we've talked about some of those issues around the treatment of women within an industry as you came through, have you seen change?

Rosie Arnold:

Oh, I think the Me Too movement marked the biggest change I've ever seen. So I think before that we were all trying to get equal pay and it was all still hushed up. Me Too, just for the first time, and it was really interesting, I think it made men scared. Everybody was wanting to be nice, but they were thinking, "Well, we can just get away with not paying them so much. We can just get away with this." And I think suddenly for the first time people thought, "God, I'm going to be really held accountable for this and I'm frightened about that." So I think there's been the most massive wave of change and people actively embracing change, wanting it, pursuing it.

Rosie Arnold:

There still is a real dearth of senior female creatives. I think that's because it's been tough and people come through the system and then... I have this whole sort of theory, because I got really fed up with everybody saying, "Oh, it's because women go and have children." And I'm like, "No, I had children. Sod off. It's not because we have children." The hours are difficult, yes, and you don't make the environment easy."

Matt Moseley:

Easily accessible.

Rosie Arnold:

But actually, I did not think that I did not think that was the reason. So I've got this theory, and I've written about it, and John Hegarty agrees with me, he said, "Write about it, write about it." So I was like, if you think about it, and I know I'm being massively kind of judgemental in some sort of ways, but if you come back from the weekend and everybody asks what they do, men and women fundamentally have slightly different things that they enjoy doing. Taste wise, we have slightly different tastes. And then the trouble is, with advertising, is you're writing stuff, and you generally write stuff which is either your experience or what you like.

Rosie Arnold:

So if you're a female team, there's lots of gateways for your success. So the first gateway is, you then have to show your ideas to a creative director before it's presented to the client. And guess what? He's 90% chance of being a man. And then if it gets through there, you've got to get the client to buy it, who, guess what, is probably a man. And then you've got to get it made and you're going to choose to work with somebody who's, guess what, male director, male photographer. Then if your career's going to succeed, you need to win awards, because that's how people notice you and you get things. And then who's on the jury? Oh my goodness me, guess what, men.

Matt Moseley:

Lots of men.

Rosie Arnold:

So actually it's so hard to go through that path as a woman, just from the very beginning, because your idea isn't necessarily to the taste of all those gatekeepers along the way. So until we can have more women at every single stage, it's hard. That is changing. So I'm seeing so many more female clients. And when I was on the president of D&AD, I made sure that we had 50/50 juries. That's happening everywhere now. So those two gateways, they've changed. Still we don't have enough female photographers, directors, and things. There's been a really positive change about that, so clients have been saying, "We want to see a female director's treatment in the mix." So there are a lot more female directors coming through. And agencies are actively trying to find more female and promote more female creative directors. So those gatekeepers are opening up.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. So you mentioned you had a mentor. What's the benefit of taking on a mentor or that relationship between mentor and mentee?

Rosie Arnold:

Well, what I always try and say is, one, if you find somebody whose work you admire, that's the person to go and ask to be your mentor, because then you will listen to what they say and you will take on board what they're telling you. Because actually it is quite subjective. So when we all like ads, "Oh, I love that one. Oh, I hate it. Oh, I want to see it again. I never want to see it again." So don't go to the person whose work you don't like.

Matt Moseley:

Right, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rosie Arnold:

But also because you'll be doing stuff that you don't like because they'll be encouraging you to do that.

Matt Moseley:

Of course.

Rosie Arnold:

You will get a gazillion different views about your portfolio. So you'll go and show it to one set of people and they'll go, "I love it." And other people will go, "I hate it." So again, you've just got to find the right person. And we're all hugely busy, but most people are kind out there. So I think how it helps is, it can help really hone your portfolio outside the college environment, because you will be doing something like that at college, but it can just sharpen it up to a slightly different place, just sort of fine tune it. It gives you a relationship with somebody in an agency, which means that you might have got a better pathway into a job for that agency, because they know you and they're always looking out for really good creative teams. And if you've got a relationship with somebody there, they're much more likely to go, "Well, I know this team, maybe we should get them in." So it works not only for you growing as a creative individual, but also for you your career path of getting into work.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. I think one of the challenges for students a lot of the time is finding a way into industry.

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah.

Matt Moseley:

Do you have any advice or tips for students about how to make that transition?

Rosie Arnold:

Well, what I was saying about, get a mentor and then you can try and get your foot in the door. Because I think, it's just a lot of knocking on doors. There is a different course you can do with the SCA, School of Communication Arts, which they have a year's very concentrated course. And they've got lots of connections in advertising is the industry. There is still, D&AD exists, you can go and talk to them, they've got different processes of maybe hooking you in with things. There's something called Cream, which is a sort of talent show for creators, which you could enter and get your portfolio in that, which then agencies go and look at the portfolios.

Rosie Arnold:

D&AD has a student awards every year where they set a brief that you then enter, and if you win an award, that gives you a lot of publicity. And it's a really good, fun thing to do as well, because it gives you a proper brief and that's a very good way for you to get your name out there and get noticed. And then they have a big show where you get your award, and then, again, they have a kind of open day where all the runners up and everything are there. And agencies, again, go there to look for new talent.

Matt Moseley:

Right, so we're going to go into the create section of our podcast.

Speaker 13:

Create.

Speaker 14:

Create.

Speaker 15:

Create.

Speaker 16:

Create.

Matt Moseley:

In this section, what we've been doing is, asking each of our guests to set a provocation, or a question, or a challenge, or a thought, for our students, our learners out there. So do you have anything in mind?

Rosie Arnold:

Yes.

Matt Moseley:

Wonderful.

Rosie Arnold:

So I think what I'd like everyone to do is think of something in the world that they really want to change for the better. And it might be a local problem. It might be, you want people to pick up their dog poo more often. Or it might be something much broader than that and you might want to go equal rights for cats. I don't know, whatever it is. So think of something that you're really passionate about and you really want to change, and then go, "How am I going to get this change? It's not good enough just to have people signing a petition. I need to think of something that really provocatively will change." And then work out how you might bring that to life. And that can be a project that you can really do for real.

Rosie Arnold:

So here's some examples of it. A team I work with at AMV had heard about the plastic waste in the ocean being as big as a whole country.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. Enormous.

Rosie Arnold:

Enormous. And then went, "How are we going to affect change?" So they'd seen lots of things where people had created sculptures on the beach and you put your plastic in that, and went, "That's not really going to affect change. What we need to do is we need legislation. We need the UN to pass a resolution that actually sorts this out. And if we brand this mass of plastic as an actual country and get that country recognised by the UN, then they have to do something about it." So they looked through what makes a country and they branded it Trash Isles, and they created the currency, a flag, and they got a prime minister, and they went to the UN and got the resolution presented. So look it up, it's called Trash Isles. That's an example of something you could do. So what is it you care about? Go away and have a little think about what you can really, really do to make change, and then see what you can do. The world might be a much better place after this podcast.

Matt Moseley:

Brilliant, Rosie. I'm already thinking of some things that I would like to change and communicate. So that's a wonderful provocation. Thank you very much for sharing that.

Rosie Arnold:

Yeah.

Matt Moseley:

We normally just like to ask the guest if there's anything that we haven't discussed that you wanted to?

Rosie Arnold:

I think I've covered it.

Matt Moseley:

Thank you ever so much.

Rosie Arnold:

I would just say, it's such a fun career if you get into it. It's been a real honor for me to have worked so long in the industry and I've had a very happy life to it.

Matt Moseley:

Yeah. It sounds like quite the journey.

Rosie Arnold:

I'd like everybody to have a happy life.

Matt Moseley:

Great. Well, thank you ever so much, Rosie. Thank you for your time today.

Rosie Arnold:

Okay.

Matt Moseley:

It's been absolutely wonderful. Thank you for listening to this week's Teach Inspire Create podcast with Rosie Arnold. I hope you've been able to take some valuable information from this episode and apply it in one way or another to your creative practice. Join us next week when I'll be talking to Rob Gildon, world recognised baritone and vocal animateur. We will be exploring how openness and kindness is key to making a significant contribution to the world of arts and how these values can guide new generations.

Matt Moseley:

If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to, please do share your responses and feedback on social media, using the hashtag #TICpodcast. See you next time. Bye.