Episode 233: Three Old Guys Talking the greatest centers of all time

 This bonus episode of You Can’t Comp This completes the three-part crossover series with Andrew Lewis and Dan Shea from the Three Old Guys Talking Ball podcast. The spotlight is on the greatest centers in NBA history, with a spirited draft that pits Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s unstoppable skyhook, Shaquille O’Neal’s dominance, Bill Russell’s unmatched championship pedigree, and Wilt Chamberlain’s staggering records against one another. The discussion balances sharp basketball analysis with playful banter, highlighting how each player shaped the game and their place in NBA lore. True to the You Can’t Comp This spirit, the conversation also dives into the hobby, from iconic rookie cards to PSA grades and collector insights that bring these legends into the trading card world. Lively, nostalgic, and packed with both hoops history and hobby talk, this episode is a fitting conclusion to a fun and fiery collaboration between two passionate basketball podcasts. 

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Transcript

00:00:10.97
Russell Gibson
so that's recording and then I'll hit the go live button as well.

00:00:17.02
Russell Gibson
Excellent.

00:00:26.04
Russell Gibson
All right, we are broadcasting to the masses.

00:00:26.30
Dan Shea
Okay. hey

00:00:31.31
Andrew Lewis
Excellent.

00:00:33.38
Russell Gibson
Um, where are we? Alright.

00:00:39.29
Russell Gibson
Let us get this started.

00:00:54.91
Russell Gibson
Welcome everybody to episode 233

00:01:01.06
Russell Gibson
of the You Can't Comp This NBA Trading Card Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Aimee. Join today, um we've we've done a midweek interruption to the return to regularly scheduled programming.

00:01:12.53
Russell Gibson
Kick Russell off. We're still hijacking the pod because we have a three-part series to complete. It's the three old guys talking ball. Welcome, Andrew Lewis and Dan Shea.

00:01:25.46
Andrew Lewis
What's up?

00:01:25.72
Russell Gibson
oh We're ready to talk centres.

00:01:26.68
Dan Shea
Hey, hey.

00:01:29.11
Russell Gibson
butre ready to talk centres

00:01:30.75
Andrew Lewis
Big fellas.

00:01:32.66
Russell Gibson
Well, the big guys. um

00:01:33.81
Andrew Lewis
The cornerstone of NBA championships for many, many years until those young whippersnappers changed things.

00:01:43.41
Russell Gibson
I don't know, some recent MVP awards suggest that the the role of the center has returned. So...

00:01:48.50
Andrew Lewis
The center a renaissance, but I'm ready to kick it old school.

00:01:52.13
Russell Gibson
Whoa, are we now? Interesting. um Just to to bring everybody up to speed, look, I'm not going dilly-dally too much with regards to what happened in previous pods. If you'd like to hear those, you can go to both of our channels, either at the You Can't Comp This feed or the three old guys talking ball.

00:02:10.69
Russell Gibson
um Michael Jordan was obviously the number one picked guard. um Who was the number one picked for? LeBron James. That's right. that's um But they're the only spoilers.

00:02:22.45
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, I did that.

00:02:23.47
Russell Gibson
There were there there was some there was some interesting calls made, um some popular opinions, some unpopular opinions. some old guy rants.

00:02:33.04
Andrew Lewis
you go to You got to listen to that Ford podcast to find out exactly where we place Clarence Weatherspoon.

00:02:39.95
Russell Gibson
Correct.

00:02:40.69
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, in that.

00:02:41.47
Russell Gibson
Correct. Correct. um Yeah. So go and check those episodes out, either three old guys talking ball or on the, you can't comp this feed, but, Without further ado, maybe maybe we just get stuck into it. This is going to be drafted. Is it just 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3? Same as the last couple.

00:02:59.51
Russell Gibson
um Given I'm the guard, I got to pick the guards. Given you're the middle child, Andrew,

00:03:07.41
Russell Gibson
you got to pick the forward. And today ah Dan gets to kick things off with the first pick in the centres.

00:03:17.43
Dan Shea
um ah

00:03:19.33
Andrew Lewis
Drum roll, Adam.

00:03:19.42
Dan Shea
hello ter Hello Territory indeed. Centre being such an important position historically.

00:03:26.58
Russell Gibson
hu

00:03:28.88
Dan Shea
lost a bit of emphasis for a while there and and is is coming back strongly in a slightly different form now with the kind of skill sets we're seeing in in big guys these days.

00:03:37.30
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:03:41.23
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:03:41.36
Dan Shea
um So look, I think you know there are a couple of really clear contenders yeah ah for this kind of top level. And um I don't think anyone's going to be unhappy with who they end up with, with the the top three pick here.

00:03:57.54
Dan Shea
um I have gone with um the original The Dream, ah Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,

00:04:06.77
Russell Gibson
Excellent, excellent.

00:04:09.25
Dan Shea
NBA champion with ah the Bucks and the Lakers, lots.

00:04:13.49
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

00:04:14.76
Dan Shea
Um, six time NBA champ, 11 time all defensive, rookie the year in his first season, six time MVP, um, two times scoring, scoring champ, four time block champ, um, 15 time all NBA, uh, twice finals MVP.

00:04:33.92
Dan Shea
Um, and you know, with a career clip, um, um having played until he was recently um overtaken LeBron James,

00:04:45.36
Dan Shea
lebron james having played at a really high level until his final season at the age of 41. And, um and you know, ah just a ah a wonderful, enduring player, managed to become a bit of a movie star um during the time he was um and during the time he was still kind of ah around the NBA.

00:05:09.35
Dan Shea
um famously in the Bruce lo bruce Lee film um Tower of Death, playing ah ah showing off his um his um ah Kung Fu skills. um But just a fantastic player at both ends of the court, a player so good that they outlawed the dunk in NCAA play um because of him.

00:05:27.75
Russell Gibson
Pretty crazy.

00:05:31.28
Dan Shea
And...

00:05:32.01
Andrew Lewis
But is that, could could could you imagine if they had outlawed the turnaround jump shot because of Michael Jordan?

00:05:32.14
Dan Shea
and

00:05:32.43
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:05:38.88
Andrew Lewis
it Insane.

00:05:42.69
Dan Shea
Um, utterly insane. And that wasn't even the shot he was known for, but it was probably the reason he perfected it. The, uh, the trademark, um, um,

00:05:49.91
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:05:56.60
Dan Shea
often imitated, not as much as you might think. And there's actually one record, despite having overtaken his total points records and probably homing in on um the longevity records that he hasn't yet eclipsed LBJ, probably won't in his career um hit the total field goals made.

00:06:20.37
Dan Shea
Um, because Kareem did it all from two point range, um, and, and just hit them, uh, uh, hit them at an amazingly high clip.

00:06:24.95
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:06:31.05
Dan Shea
Um, that skyhook Kareem was one of the, uh, uh, not the first certainly, but certainly one of the most high profile players who famously kind of, you know, played fast and loose with the truth about his actual height.

00:06:39.33
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:06:44.33
Dan Shea
Um, and, um, is, you know, yeah he's rumored to be, ah over seven feet tall.

00:06:44.92
Russell Gibson
Ha, ha, ha.

00:06:51.82
Dan Shea
That was pretty consistent, but rumored to be anywhere between kind of seven, two and seven, five, depending on who you ask.

00:06:58.47
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:06:58.82
Dan Shea
Um, and, um, uh, you know, also i think famously,

00:07:07.94
Dan Shea
Historically underrated now, I think, and part of the reason is because he was never really one who engaged much with the ah ah with the spotlight. A famous grouch, actually. ah You know, someone who wrote- who wrote uh, open letters about active and NBA players when he was an active NBA player.

00:07:30.40
Dan Shea
Um, like he was writing letters of complaint, uh, to the mail. Um, he wrote a famous, uh, scree about Wilt Chamberlain, um, not long before he had to play him, um, thoroughly outplay him. In fact, in that case.

00:07:45.80
Dan Shea
Um, and, um,

00:07:45.89
Russell Gibson
goodness gracious.

00:07:46.82
Andrew Lewis
Must have been an important game.

00:07:49.12
Dan Shea
I think there's ah there's a really kind of ah interesting thing. You know, if you think about the way he was portrayed in in Winning Time, that kind of, you know, very separate in many ways from the rest of the team, kind of grumpy.

00:08:02.88
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:08:03.54
Dan Shea
um It seems to have been very true to his, um ah spiritually true to his he's kind of, his um his demeanor and personality back then. Insanely competitive.

00:08:13.68
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:08:13.93
Dan Shea
very ah very private, um gruff, um but also very kind of internal.

00:08:15.01
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:08:21.23
Dan Shea
And actually, he's been a very, he's mellowed a bit in his older age and has written some very um kind of insightful pieces about kind of culture, about andba

00:08:33.57
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:08:33.61
Dan Shea
of the NBA, where where it is, where it's headed, where it's come from.

00:08:36.50
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:08:37.74
Dan Shea
And I think has really kind of more been stepping into that role as as elder statesman, while never really having leaned into any kind of official role with any team, which might be a result of how many bridges he played as a player.

00:08:50.34
Russell Gibson
Yeah. that

00:08:50.65
Dan Shea
um um One of the, um you know, kind of a famous, a famous high-profile player to leave a championship team um ah you know, by choice, highlighting um the player empowerment of that when he was leaving that when he was leaving the Bucks for the Lakers.

00:09:13.12
Dan Shea
um But, you know, I'm fully aware that I've picked as my top center of all time here

00:09:16.00
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

00:09:20.73
Dan Shea
um ah a player who played most of his career for your team ads.

00:09:26.43
Russell Gibson
purple and gold purple and gold love it very happy very happy um Yeah, very well-deserving number one pick. And I think well-deserving card i will I will share with the the listeners.

00:09:41.45
Russell Gibson
And they are probably not very unfamiliar with this this card. I'm going to go full screen and pop it up here. It is the 1969 Tops.

00:09:53.30
Russell Gibson
ah Lou Alcindor, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, number 25. It's a long card, very different. In a PSA 9, it last sold for $192,000, and that was in May 2023. There are 18 that have been graded a PSA 9, and only two that have been graded as 10, with the before last being over $500,000 for this card. Yes, yes, sir.

00:10:13.23
Russell Gibson
and only two that have been

00:10:17.93
Russell Gibson
last being over five hundred thousand dollars for this car

00:10:21.11
Andrew Lewis
Question without notice, Adam, on the collectible aspect of Kareem.

00:10:23.20
Russell Gibson
yes yes sir

00:10:24.87
Andrew Lewis
i would imagine Kareem um finding something that was signed by him would be incredibly difficult considering his well-worn well-ventilated relationship to the fans, especially during his playing career.

00:10:35.70
Russell Gibson
um

00:10:39.38
Russell Gibson
so So during the playing career, ah finding signed cards were was near impossible anyway. car Players didn't sign

00:10:49.28
Russell Gibson
but um trading cards in the 60s, 70s, 80s.

00:10:50.87
Andrew Lewis
Okay.

00:10:52.06
Russell Gibson
However, in the modern card era, which is where things have sort of changed, I guess, then we're we're we're talking about cards that are that are worth – um Quite a bit of money that are signed and memorabilia bits from game-worn jerseys.

00:11:09.50
Russell Gibson
ah Kareem actually signed a lot post-career.

00:11:13.13
Andrew Lewis
um

00:11:13.58
Russell Gibson
So so there it's not as much as Magic did. Magic Johnson is renowned for probably being one of the signed the most cards. Like he just kept signing things.

00:11:25.20
Russell Gibson
um so you can pick up Magics pretty easily. You can pick up Kareem Autos. I actually have the NBA 75, the 75th anniversary team, one of the those cards numbered to 49 or something with Kareem's auto on it. That's one of my very few Kareems that I've got.

00:11:44.33
Russell Gibson
But um he does sign. It's not it's not rare as Hensteeth, but this card in particular from 69, getting this in a decent decent condition is is not easy. So even wanting a PSA 8 is worth $20,000 USD.

00:11:58.09
Andrew Lewis
Speaking of the longevity thing before we move from Kareem, Daniel, um the famous longevity statistic about Kareem other than the games played and the seasons and the points is that he won the NBA Finals MVP 14 years apart.

00:12:08.77
Russell Gibson
yes

00:12:12.34
Andrew Lewis
Now, what the longevity argument is Kareem and LeBron. If LeBron were to win the mv Finals MVP next year, he would just merely equal that.

00:12:25.59
Russell Gibson
That was correct, yes.

00:12:26.52
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, so LeBron won his first Finals MVP in 2012.

00:12:27.05
Dan Shea
I

00:12:29.52
Andrew Lewis
So that's what we're talking about. That's the sort of distance.

00:12:33.17
Russell Gibson
That's the crazy longevity, right?

00:12:34.16
Andrew Lewis
So, yeah.

00:12:34.97
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:12:36.91
Andrew Lewis
So if you were 11 when Kareem won his first Finals MVP, you would have been 25 years old when he won his final one um against the defending champion Boston Celtics with them clinching for the first time ever on the parquet floor. So...

00:12:54.95
Andrew Lewis
Kareem is one of the four or five best basketballers um of all time, unarguably.

00:12:55.42
Russell Gibson
Mmm.

00:12:56.51
Dan Shea
ah

00:13:03.51
Andrew Lewis
And i think daniel was right to I think Daniel was right to mention that his lack of self-promotion, especially during his career, but also, and also I think he's got a rather...

00:13:04.20
Russell Gibson
That's always arguably.

00:13:05.08
Dan Shea
I...

00:13:05.90
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:13:13.28
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:13:17.47
Andrew Lewis
I mean, it's certainly a thoughtful but not necessarily a comfortable relationship with his with this place in the world as i as a as an all-time sporting great. I get the feeling that deep down he'd rather would have been famous for something else.

00:13:26.67
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:13:31.00
Russell Gibson
Yeah, for sure.

00:13:30.98
Andrew Lewis
um But... um has led to that as well, to his being somewhat underrated against certainly some other centres, one or two of which we will go through, who are who have been exceptionally good at self-promotion and maybe one or two still are.

00:13:50.68
Dan Shea
i I should...

00:13:51.25
Russell Gibson
Well, that's a really, that's that's a good, that's that's a good lead in.

00:13:58.03
Andrew Lewis
Daniel had a thought.

00:13:58.29
Dan Shea
I just had a little, I just had a little, I just had a little tail on it, which was he made the all-star, he made the all-star team in all but one of his 20 seasons.

00:13:59.80
Russell Gibson
Daniel... Mm-hmm.

00:14:10.02
Dan Shea
So 19 time all-star.

00:14:10.51
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

00:14:12.78
Dan Shea
And that was the, it happened to be a season after but winning back-to-back in MVPs the previous two seasons and finishing fourth in MVP that year. um It was the game, that the season where played the fewest games of his career in regular season.

00:14:27.36
Dan Shea
It is in fact the only time, uh, there was one other time that he played fewer than 70, um, uh, 65, but, um, uh, aside from those two, um he consistently played, essentially the whole season.

00:14:34.02
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:14:43.91
Russell Gibson
There was no load management rubbish.

00:14:44.21
Dan Shea
Firth.

00:14:46.79
Russell Gibson
I feel like that's the main thing.

00:14:47.15
Dan Shea
Mm.

00:14:50.72
Dan Shea
And an early model for just taking great care of his body. um Yeah.

00:14:54.53
Russell Gibson
It's true.

00:14:54.87
Dan Shea
Sorry. I derailed your segue.

00:14:56.75
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:14:56.86
Russell Gibson
That's okay. We're...

00:14:57.35
Andrew Lewis
one one

00:14:58.65
Russell Gibson
so

00:14:59.32
Andrew Lewis
One career three-pointer made. One.

00:15:04.75
Russell Gibson
one three point One career three-pointer.

00:15:08.44
Dan Shea
My tracks.

00:15:08.46
Russell Gibson
are we talking about?

00:15:12.68
Russell Gibson
All right.

00:15:15.40
Russell Gibson
Now, um we've talked about all these lovely players that have been great because they've played for one team for their entire career.

00:15:25.94
Russell Gibson
Calm down, Andrew.

00:15:27.33
Andrew Lewis
ah

00:15:28.27
Dan Shea
Thank you.

00:15:29.35
Russell Gibson
you know

00:15:29.49
Andrew Lewis
Big

00:15:30.50
Russell Gibson
You know what's coming at that with the number two with the number two pick. I think the only the only words i can I can utter right now is, can you dig it?

00:15:34.30
Andrew Lewis
Bob and Skatnod.

00:15:42.75
Russell Gibson
It is the big man, the big diesel, Shaquille O'Neal. The look of shock and awe on both of your face.

00:15:59.52
Russell Gibson
I'm pretty sure i've I've shown my hand on that that well well in advance.

00:16:07.04
Russell Gibson
And it was interesting because some you one of you made comment previously about, well, baby Shaq wasn't as good as Hakeem Olajuwon.

00:16:07.25
Dan Shea
um

00:16:17.35
Russell Gibson
But I tell you what, you know who was better than Hakeem Olajuwon? Three-peat champion Shaquille O'Neal with... Jordan won like 2.0, Kobe Bryant at his side, the greatest one-two punch in NBA history.

00:16:35.89
Russell Gibson
Shaq is the second best center of all time.

00:16:40.90
Russell Gibson
and And that's my – I'm done. I don't need to say any more.

00:16:46.89
Russell Gibson
I'm just waiting for Andrew's counter rant now. um Do we need to bring up some Shaq stats? Do you not know who I'm referencing? Is he that unknown?

00:16:57.53
Andrew Lewis
but

00:16:58.60
Russell Gibson
I hear typing, I hear furious typing.

00:16:58.64
Andrew Lewis
Whatever you do.

00:17:02.01
Andrew Lewis
all tell yeah I'm not typing furiously. I'm typing while furious. There's an important difference.

00:17:14.01
Russell Gibson
I just, look, Shaquille O'Neal is, physically is the most dominant big in the history with of the NBA. there There is nobody that could stop prime Shaquille O'Neal And that's it.

00:17:29.49
Russell Gibson
Nobody could have. Kareem couldn't have stopped this man. The only problem with Shaq is Shaq may have been a bit too excited and and enjoyed few extra burgers in the offseason.

00:17:44.47
Russell Gibson
he wasn't He wasn't as dedicated to his craft as some of the others. More dedicated treating their body like a temple sort like the Lebrons or the Kareems of the world.

00:17:56.74
Russell Gibson
Anywho.

00:17:59.53
Russell Gibson
played for Played for two of our teams. Played for the Phoenix Suns.

00:18:06.00
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, and the highlight of his entire time in Phoenix was the All-Star game in Phoenix where he did that dance.

00:18:12.69
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:18:13.03
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:18:13.41
Andrew Lewis
That's it. That's the highlight.

00:18:15.03
Russell Gibson
Yes. Yes.

00:18:16.04
Andrew Lewis
we did Shaq's arrival took a fast, exciting, up-tempo team and slowed them down unnecessarily. The second greatest moment of the Shaq period in Phoenix was the time Greg Popovich decided to hack a Shaq three seconds into the first game of the season.

00:18:36.40
Andrew Lewis
That's a fun video.

00:18:40.54
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:18:41.41
Andrew Lewis
i still i I'm still gonna remember Shaq more fondly as a son than Kevin Durant.

00:18:47.12
Russell Gibson
That's fair. That's fair. like

00:18:49.27
Andrew Lewis
I like Shaq.

00:18:52.25
Andrew Lewis
I'm a big Shaq fan.

00:18:52.86
Russell Gibson
Shaq. Most people like Shaq.

00:18:55.58
Andrew Lewis
I'm happy to concede he's one of the five greatest centers ever to play in the NBA.

00:18:55.90
Russell Gibson
I think I've...

00:19:01.21
Russell Gibson
good good And he's gone at number two.

00:19:04.69
Dan Shea
I mean, i I kind of like that He's kind of cultivated that reputation for being mostly good natured and a bit thick, but he actually has non honorary PhD, you know, like this, this is someone.

00:19:17.47
Russell Gibson
The man has actually got multiple degrees, yeah. Like a lot of...

00:19:21.94
Dan Shea
Yeah. He has a legitimate doctorate.

00:19:24.18
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:24.29
Dan Shea
Um, Um, and I mean, you know, outside of basketball, like he's been a really quite shrewd investor as well.

00:19:35.44
Dan Shea
Like, um, uh, he's been, he's been seen, you could hardly miss him, but seen at South by Southwest in his role as an investor, like got nothing to do with the sort of the entertainment, the, the, uh, the TNT side of things.

00:19:44.94
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:49.66
Dan Shea
This is a guy who, when he was playing in, um, Miami was ah deputized officially and would tweet things like first 10 people to touch.

00:19:58.68
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:20:03.09
Dan Shea
like This is my location giving GPS coordinates. First five people to touch me get courtside tickets to the game tonight.

00:20:13.48
Andrew Lewis
Hey, you said he was in Miami. Daniel, do you want to give a praise to you of how he ended up in Miami and who was the impetus for him being traded for the Los Angeles Lakers?

00:20:24.46
Dan Shea
Well, i think I think Ads has probably got the best inside inside take on that.

00:20:27.19
Andrew Lewis
You're

00:20:29.38
Russell Gibson
I was talking about his work ethic and his his unwillingness to train, right? That's right.

00:20:33.63
Andrew Lewis
you just trying to make it up to him.

00:20:34.31
Russell Gibson
So, yes, it was very, it was just, it was just an opportunity for um for Kobe to speak his mind and look,

00:20:35.67
Andrew Lewis
You're just trying to make it up to him now.

00:20:43.71
Russell Gibson
It was Kobe's team by that stage. Shaq wasn't required anymore. Although they probably would have won another three chips if he'd stayed. Let's be fair.

00:20:53.18
Andrew Lewis
I could have eaten another three chips at his stage.

00:20:56.25
Russell Gibson
so the minimum The minimum's well well above three. But, um yeah, look, I would like to have seen what would have happened if that team-up had it continued and they'd found a way to work, code like, don't know, share the court.

00:20:59.57
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:21:03.35
Andrew Lewis
Look.

00:21:12.28
Andrew Lewis
ah Look, I think I'm going to be able to address this in more detail with a later selection of someone who's going to fall to me. um but Just to keep it short, no one in the history of the NBA was more satisfied with being very, very, very good but not great than Shaquille O'Neal.

00:21:32.05
Russell Gibson
Yes. Yes.

00:21:34.29
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:21:35.23
Dan Shea
except he was so talented that he was great anyway.

00:21:39.37
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:21:39.92
Dan Shea
But we can see that he could have been even greater.

00:21:42.95
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:21:43.32
Russell Gibson
Yes. And that was probably the one thing that annoyed Kobe the most.

00:21:44.14
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:21:46.69
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:21:47.03
Dan Shea
I've heard him i've heard i've heard repeated repeated or separate bits of ah footage where he said exactly that.

00:21:51.90
Russell Gibson
Literally. Yep. Correct.

00:21:54.52
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:21:54.51
Andrew Lewis
So wait we wicked could all pick which legacy we'd rather have, which resume we'd rather have.

00:21:54.80
Russell Gibson
And it's just like... That's infuriating.

00:22:03.57
Andrew Lewis
But of all the NBA players in NBA history, Shaq's might be the life you have most wanted to live. He was like, I want to be Shaq.

00:22:10.14
Russell Gibson
Of course. Yep.

00:22:12.17
Andrew Lewis
Shaq had absolutely all the fun he wanted to, you know.

00:22:16.86
Russell Gibson
Yep. Spot on. um And I'm not...

00:22:19.87
Andrew Lewis
Won four NBA championships, three and NBA Finals and MVPs.

00:22:19.99
Dan Shea
Yep. Hmm.

00:22:23.68
Andrew Lewis
he was He was a great transcendent player. There were just other players I would have picked ahead of him.

00:22:27.83
Russell Gibson
Yep. hey hey hey got He got four. He got four. Kobe got five.

00:22:34.00
Andrew Lewis
Hmm.

00:22:35.76
Dan Shea
ye

00:22:35.79
Russell Gibson
And he let him know about it too. Anyway, this isn't about Kobe. I'm just i'm trying to make it.

00:22:40.00
Andrew Lewis
See, Shaq's shack's mistake was he played in an NBA Finals for the Orlando Magic instead of against them. So that was that was a mistake.

00:22:46.19
Russell Gibson
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's spot on, spot on.

00:22:47.89
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:22:49.62
Russell Gibson
And he was the first NBA center to be to to move from the Orlando Magic to to the Los Angeles Lakers.

00:22:49.69
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:22:59.57
Russell Gibson
First number one draft pick that the Lakers acquired from Orlando. The second being Dwight Howard and hopefully the third being Paolo Banchero. Anyway, I'm really trying to stir the the old man rant, but I'm going to...

00:23:14.53
Andrew Lewis
It's going to be, it's going to be Markel Fultz before it's, um,

00:23:14.70
Dan Shea
you

00:23:18.82
Andrew Lewis
Hello, Bankero.

00:23:22.67
Russell Gibson
Oh, God. All right, so I'm going to go across to the 1992 NBA Hoops Draft Redemption. Shaquille O'Neal just got him with his ah his suit on with his Orlando Magic cap. It's a nice card.

00:23:39.46
Russell Gibson
PSA 10 last sold. ah yesterday, funnily enough, for $450. Population count on this is $560. It's a nice, simple-looking card.

00:23:50.73
Russell Gibson
It's got the big number one on it, and I think it's a nice, simple thing that represents, don't know, Shaquille O'Neal.

00:23:56.31
Andrew Lewis
Probably a card I would have, when I was, for that short brief period, I was collecting cards because I used to buy and NBA hoops and that would have been the year.

00:24:04.93
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:24:05.39
Andrew Lewis
it'd be like, I'm trying to pick this card.

00:24:08.32
Russell Gibson
it would be You'd have to get it via redemption. The other one that's probably synonymous with our era is the 1B, the upper deck one with the three shots of him going up to dunk, the big black card from upper deck.

00:24:10.65
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:24:15.43
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:24:22.87
Andrew Lewis
so Yeah, I mean, that was the other type of card.

00:24:25.44
Russell Gibson
And that...

00:24:27.07
Andrew Lewis
The upper decks from like 92, 93 were just, they were really good looking cards.

00:24:33.86
Russell Gibson
set was

00:24:34.79
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, they were good looking cards.

00:24:36.12
Russell Gibson
very memorable

00:24:36.23
Andrew Lewis
They were thick too. They were like really thick is what I remember.

00:24:39.51
Russell Gibson
ah we

00:24:39.92
Andrew Lewis
They were... Yeah.

00:24:40.37
Russell Gibson
They were good quality cards. Getting this in ah in ah in a gem, it'll set you back $2,500.

00:24:42.11
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:24:47.53
Russell Gibson
So that that's that's the rookie card to to go for. you get it a PSA 9, however, it'll only set you back $45 because there's for over 4,000 of them. um

00:24:57.76
Andrew Lewis
They're everywhere.

00:24:59.05
Russell Gibson
But they don't they don't grade very well. So getting 10 is not easy. Not easy at all. is not easy

00:25:06.28
Dan Shea
Thank

00:25:07.40
Russell Gibson
not easy at all

00:25:08.57
Andrew Lewis
hear that Daniel? Not easy.

00:25:12.66
Russell Gibson
Awesome. All right. Well, um we might take a quick break and then when we come back, Andrew can get things back on track with ah with with the third pick and see who's behind these two great Lakers.

00:25:31.34
Russell Gibson
And we're back. Andrew, have you been like umming and ahhing on which Laker you want to pick at number three?

00:25:40.35
Andrew Lewis
I just was stirring the whole time about the two great Lakers. just this ah It's like that Tom Hardy, Mad Max meme. Yeah, that's bad.

00:25:51.63
Russell Gibson
DeAndre Ayton is going to be pick number three, is he?

00:25:52.19
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:25:53.22
Andrew Lewis
No, no, no, no.

00:25:57.83
Andrew Lewis
But I'm going to calm down because it is my honour.

00:26:00.17
Russell Gibson
It's okay. It's your pick.

00:26:02.41
Andrew Lewis
It's my honour.

00:26:04.09
Russell Gibson
Honour.

00:26:04.40
Andrew Lewis
Just like it was when we did the all-time draft.

00:26:09.42
Andrew Lewis
the the teams back on many years ago.

00:26:12.09
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:26:12.91
Andrew Lewis
It is my honor to select as with number three in this draft, the greatest winner in the history of team sports um and the greatest teammate in the history of the National Basketball Association, William Felton Russell, Bill Russell, man who won 11 NBA titles in 13 years.

00:26:22.32
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

00:26:33.37
Andrew Lewis
um A man who might've had the greatest 14th month period in the history of basketball when he won an NCAA title, an Olympic gold medal and an NBA championship in the space of just over a year.

00:26:48.23
Russell Gibson
hu

00:26:48.23
Andrew Lewis
um ah man who ah played nearly a thousand games over a 13 year career. A man who finished with five MVPs and finished top three in the MVP nine straight seasons in a time when he was playing in the same league as players we've already ah drafted over the course of the last few um

00:27:19.11
Andrew Lewis
podcasts, guys like Jerry West and Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson, guys who will we're about to draft.

00:27:20.23
Russell Gibson
Mm, episodes, yep. Yep. Yes.

00:27:25.77
Andrew Lewis
um

00:27:28.18
Andrew Lewis
the driving force ah behind the greatest dynasty, ah perhaps in the history of team sport. A man who was so good coming out of high school and who read Auerbach recognized as ah something you could build that sort of dynasty on that he traded two future Hall of Famers for him without him having ever played a game.

00:27:40.00
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:27:48.32
Andrew Lewis
um

00:27:52.67
Andrew Lewis
A man whose achievements outweigh his statistical record But somehow that statistical record also includes 22.5 rebounds per game for his entire 963-game career.

00:28:11.66
Andrew Lewis
This is a guy who basically they should rename defensive win shares Russells.

00:28:19.42
Andrew Lewis
He led the league in defensive win shares 12 straight seasons. That's not a, you know, but you finish second in defensive win shares, that's pretty good, but he was first for 12 straight seasons.

00:28:31.84
Andrew Lewis
Let's see Victor Wembe and Yama do that. um but then

00:28:34.29
Russell Gibson
We will.

00:28:35.29
Andrew Lewis
But then again, you know, Adam can talk adam can talk about that when he picks Wembe with his next pick.

00:28:36.88
Russell Gibson
We might.

00:28:41.54
Andrew Lewis
Oh,

00:28:42.60
Russell Gibson
No, no, he's the he's the eighth pick.

00:28:44.51
Andrew Lewis
okay.

00:28:45.03
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:28:45.15
Andrew Lewis
Excellent. um

00:28:46.81
Russell Gibson
but ah No.

00:28:48.04
Andrew Lewis
Still second in career rebounds in the NBA.

00:28:52.24
Russell Gibson
Nice.

00:28:52.76
Andrew Lewis
Okay.

00:28:53.49
Russell Gibson
he did He did average like 64 rebounds a game, didn't he?

00:28:57.24
Andrew Lewis
22 and a half for his entire career. Yeah.

00:29:00.34
Russell Gibson
That's because he kept missing shots and rebounding them, right? Yeah.

00:29:04.49
Andrew Lewis
And he has a, hit just just for you, Adam, he also has a, no he has an all-star MVP as well. So.

00:29:11.64
Russell Gibson
Oh, nice. Nice.

00:29:14.47
Andrew Lewis
And a true pioneer, a civil...

00:29:14.97
Russell Gibson
He has a... So, bill let's just say Bill Russell has his own Kobe Bryant ah trophy.

00:29:21.43
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, as Kobe Bryant has two Bill Russell trophies for winning finals MVP.

00:29:22.43
Russell Gibson
That's it.

00:29:25.83
Russell Gibson
Correct. yeah

00:29:27.84
Andrew Lewis
Daniel? Finals MVP or all-star MVP? I think most of the guys we're drafting today, except possibly one, um it would be an obvious choice to those.

00:29:41.64
Andrew Lewis
um

00:29:41.79
Russell Gibson
Oh.

00:29:42.61
Andrew Lewis
Not all like it.

00:29:42.69
Dan Shea
Oh, about which one's more important? Well, I think the most telling thing is if we're talking about the example, um which one do you think Kobe would have valued higher?

00:29:50.66
Russell Gibson
Correct. That's it.

00:29:52.64
Andrew Lewis
ah A civil rights leader, groundbreaker, the first playing coach at the NBA to win an NBA title, the first African-American coach in the NBA, the leader of the first all-African-American starting five.

00:29:53.66
Dan Shea
Not the one that's named after him.

00:30:05.45
Russell Gibson
hmm.

00:30:09.48
Andrew Lewis
um

00:30:10.11
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:30:11.35
Andrew Lewis
Just everyone, if you if you if you're listening and ah you think I might be overstating his influence or anything like that. Your two documents, um visual documents you need watch is the Netflix, Bill Russell Legend, um two-part documentary, and then the Celtic City documentary, the first few episodes where it covers Russell's career.

00:30:28.78
Russell Gibson
Yes. Good watch.

00:30:38.62
Andrew Lewis
But also second week, the Russell autobiography, which includes just some fantastic commentary

00:30:42.59
Russell Gibson
yes Yeah,

00:30:42.84
Dan Shea
ah

00:30:45.63
Andrew Lewis
on some of his rivals, but that's becoming a common theme. um And

00:30:52.79
Andrew Lewis
Kareem should be rated against Bill because as soon as Kareem ended the league, Bill Russell retired.

00:30:57.93
Russell Gibson
he knew he knew when he was defeated.

00:30:58.47
Andrew Lewis
but

00:30:59.70
Russell Gibson
He knew when he was done, yeah.

00:30:59.79
Andrew Lewis
He was just like, yeah.

00:31:02.32
Russell Gibson
Yeah. That's why Jordan retired and went to the Wizards, you see.

00:31:04.09
Dan Shea
um

00:31:07.28
Russell Gibson
Because Kobe entered the league. Anyway.

00:31:08.90
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. they had They had years of crossover at him and those years where

00:31:13.98
Russell Gibson
that's but That's why he played at the Wizards, you see, because...

00:31:16.84
Andrew Lewis
The years where he was at Chicago and Kobe was at the Lakers, will but Michael Jordan won every title.

00:31:23.08
Russell Gibson
Kobe was just sharpening his claws. That's fine. It's all right. It's okay.

00:31:27.76
Dan Shea
Yep. Hmm.

00:31:28.24
Russell Gibson
We've picked the top three, and so far we've got two Lakers and two Celtics, so we should be happy.

00:31:35.44
Andrew Lewis
We're gonna talk about the Cleveland Shaq.

00:31:36.78
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:31:41.07
Andrew Lewis
Was there another Shaq? Where was Shaq?

00:31:42.89
Russell Gibson
I, so,

00:31:43.38
Andrew Lewis
Shaq went Cleveland between Phoenix in Boston?

00:31:48.86
Russell Gibson
no, no, it was, cle Boston was the last one, wasn't it? Yeah, and Cleveland was second last.

00:31:52.86
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, so he was.

00:31:53.60
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:31:53.66
Andrew Lewis
So it was Phoenix Cleveland.

00:31:54.84
Dan Shea
ye

00:31:55.01
Andrew Lewis
Anyway, Bill Russell, he played for one team.

00:31:56.16
Russell Gibson
Anyway, it did, it did.

00:31:57.11
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:31:59.81
Russell Gibson
And I've got, I've got a very, what have we got?

00:31:59.88
Dan Shea
I think...

00:32:02.45
Russell Gibson
I've got a very old card to show, but Dan, you go, you go first.

00:32:05.93
Dan Shea
ah just Just some other stuff about um Bill Russell. I think one of the things that really stood out about him um was he had a very distinctive style of leadership. No one doubted that he was kind of ah very important to the team. A team that, when he joined it, had a face, had a ah kind of a...

00:32:23.65
Dan Shea
um ah you know, a leader in Bob Cousy, who was um considered to be the, you know, the best player on the team and the face of the team and famous nationally and all of that.

00:32:29.16
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:32:34.52
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:32:36.22
Dan Shea
um And he had a way of both leadership and competition that when you talk to the people who knew him, including, we'll hear about him later, but his, the greatest rival he had um at his position during his career,

00:32:54.55
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:32:56.20
Dan Shea
that he just was relentlessly positive towards them. Um, you know, I think in a way it does.

00:33:01.54
Russell Gibson
This sounds like the Team Duncan thing all over again.

00:33:06.81
Dan Shea
i mean, with Tim Duncan, people would try to rattle him and couldn't.

00:33:09.91
Russell Gibson
yeah. yeah

00:33:10.78
Dan Shea
And Timmy would actually play mind games by killing them with kindness. And actually he was trash talking.

00:33:16.13
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, versus.

00:33:17.26
Dan Shea
Right. But look for the stories about Bill Russell trash talking.

00:33:20.72
Russell Gibson
Mm.

00:33:21.93
Dan Shea
This is a guy who was also um very passionate about and involved with kind of the civil rights movement who had his house broken into and trashed and was able kind of maintain this

00:33:29.56
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:33:32.94
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:33:38.51
Dan Shea
um this dignity um through all of it.

00:33:39.48
Andrew Lewis
you

00:33:42.65
Dan Shea
And this really kind of positive, generous attitude towards leadership. You know, there were those who there there there are in basketball and in other team sports, people who lead through kind of this force of their um being the biggest, baddest guy in the room, right?

00:34:00.67
Dan Shea
And they kind of lead by this sort of vicious competitiveness um by demanding more of their teammates.

00:34:01.47
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:34:07.60
Dan Shea
But again, you know kind of ask around, including other famous Celtics, right? They had that um that way of really pushing their teammates in that way.

00:34:18.09
Dan Shea
lifted everyone up. um

00:34:20.03
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:34:20.77
Dan Shea
And it worked really well for him. In fact, one of the things that he had talked about and that I guess has come out partly in Celtic City, partly in other things that have, is just some of the players he's been in a position to influence, you know.

00:34:38.32
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:34:40.60
Dan Shea
In Celtic City, you know, Kevin Garnett Paul Pierce talk about it. um ah But one of the people who reached out to him was your favorite, Kobe Bryant, when he was basically working on how to um find his own leadership style.

00:34:51.11
Russell Gibson
course

00:34:55.57
Dan Shea
He clearly settled on a different one than than Bill did. But Bill talks about how

00:35:04.83
Dan Shea
how attentive and curious Kobe was in seeking him out.

00:35:07.10
Russell Gibson
Kobe, yeah.

00:35:08.28
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:35:08.94
Russell Gibson
Yeah, very much so.

00:35:10.12
Dan Shea
So I think he leaves a very different kind of legacy. um Also a quiet, but... not the quiet Not the quietly brooding of Kareem and not the noisy charisma of Shaq, but a you know a quietly kind of strong um guy with integrity who didn't leave enemies behind him.

00:35:16.19
Andrew Lewis
you

00:35:19.05
Russell Gibson
Kareem.

00:35:23.87
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:35:33.67
Russell Gibson
Yeah, fair.

00:35:34.24
Dan Shea
um

00:35:36.23
Russell Gibson
An interesting one. I think it's one of those, I guess, that's so far away from the eras of basketball that we've grown up with. So he's not even just barely removed from our era. He's so far in the past that contextualising his impact on the game um can be difficult.

00:35:52.78
Andrew Lewis
I think

00:35:52.89
Russell Gibson
And it is. Kids these days that haven't seen Jordan, the ones that – we'll joke about – the ones that call LeBron the goat are so far removed from seeing Jordan That's why they've they've only seen LeBron and I feel like Bill Russell's maybe that far away from us that he's not given the dues that he should be sometimes.

00:36:14.79
Andrew Lewis
I think it's an important point to make it in all seriousness and when when we're comparing eras is that, and ah you know there's so I think there's probably one guy on the bottom of consideration for a top 10 centres list who is probably the most problematic person we'll discuss, but or might be discussed, but Russell has to be compared with his peers the same way Michael Jordan has to be compared with his peers.

00:36:21.08
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:36:41.11
Andrew Lewis
You can make a Michael Jordan case

00:36:41.17
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:36:44.75
Andrew Lewis
yeah If you were going to put together the kit why Michael Jordan isn't the greatest player of all time, if you were going to do it, you would put you would put the competition aspect, particularly at his position, when team defense wasn't necessarily a thing, it wasn't all the switching.

00:36:57.22
Russell Gibson
Yep. Yeah.

00:37:01.39
Andrew Lewis
So you would be like, who are the great other shooting guards that he came up against? That would be part of the... But that's not fair to Michael Jordan, who also, whenever he got the slightest whiff of someone coming up in his prime, particularly like during the first three championships, would seek a way to cut out their heart and show how black it was to them before they died, metaphorically.

00:37:07.55
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:37:21.83
Russell Gibson
and

00:37:26.69
Dan Shea
he took He took it personally.

00:37:28.57
Russell Gibson
He did.

00:37:28.53
Andrew Lewis
He took it personally.

00:37:28.89
Russell Gibson
He took a lot of it very personally.

00:37:29.95
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:37:31.03
Andrew Lewis
Bill russell can Russell's dominance, the fact that

00:37:31.64
Russell Gibson
The quest to be the best.

00:37:35.84
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

00:37:36.59
Andrew Lewis
He played an era where there was, you know, a concentration of talent amongst two or three other teams.

00:37:44.98
Russell Gibson
Yeah. That's...

00:37:47.81
Andrew Lewis
um

00:37:50.43
Andrew Lewis
You know, teams were, it was it it was a it was a ah league with 100 guys in it.

00:37:55.87
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:37:56.54
Andrew Lewis
And yet there's, in any one of those seasons, there's probably 20 guys who made the Hall of Fame. um He can, he has to be, you have to put him in his context of his time and it's easy to diminish that, but there's no, I think, I think the arguments against Bill Russell or are ro usually revolve around the fact that he was, you know, 6'10", know, he was not big by, for a center by today's standards or certainly by 1990 standards.

00:38:08.36
Russell Gibson
Sure.

00:38:26.34
Russell Gibson
Shaq would have flattened him.

00:38:27.88
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. During the, you know,

00:38:30.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah. No, no, I understand the dominant side of it as far as like he was.

00:38:31.97
Andrew Lewis
um

00:38:35.17
Andrew Lewis
And we grew up in an area where in an era where there was ah lot of really, really good centers, where it was a dominant position.

00:38:40.97
Russell Gibson
True, very true.

00:38:42.62
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:38:42.83
Russell Gibson
The 90s, yeah.

00:38:43.04
Andrew Lewis
so And they were all seven foot, seven one.

00:38:43.99
Russell Gibson
the Mm-hmm, yep.

00:38:47.51
Andrew Lewis
So um you can make that, up yeah, you can make that, I mean, that Russell would not would have physically struggled, but that takes away the...

00:38:48.12
Russell Gibson
They go, no, no, no.

00:38:56.21
Russell Gibson
But you can't, you we there's no there's no fact that we can see. There's nothing evidentiary about it.

00:38:59.81
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, but it also takes takes away from the intangibles.

00:39:00.87
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:02.75
Andrew Lewis
This guy was the very living embodiment of how important intangibles are, how he makes his teammates better, how I don't think he ever said a discouraging word to a teammate.

00:39:07.89
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:39:12.95
Andrew Lewis
You know, that's you know it's that's a little like Bradman never been hit on the hands in his career.

00:39:13.09
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

00:39:18.34
Andrew Lewis
it just So it's like one of those things where you think, well, that's not true. At some stages, he would have been like, hey, you know, Tommy, can you just shut up?

00:39:25.32
Russell Gibson
Cracked it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for

00:39:26.66
Andrew Lewis
No.

00:39:29.64
Russell Gibson
That makes sense.

00:39:30.24
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, he just felt, and I've used this in my coaching context, coaching young children in a different game. It's just like Bill Russell's attitude tu was, I can be great, but we the team can't be great unless I help you make, unless I help you all be great.

00:39:50.13
Russell Gibson
Yeah, correct. You're correct.

00:39:51.55
Andrew Lewis
And that is the attitude that sets

00:39:51.89
Russell Gibson
It's not about being the one, the star.

00:39:54.80
Andrew Lewis
Bill Russell apart from every other NBA player in history. So I'm happy to concede that Kareem in particular um deserves his spot like as the number one setter of all time.

00:40:12.62
Andrew Lewis
But if I had to take anyone from history in their prime and build a team to win a championship,

00:40:22.85
Andrew Lewis
i would give I would give serious thought to Bill Russell over Michael Jordan before I think finally picking Michael Jordan, but that's the biggest compliment I can pay Bill Russell is they're the only two guys in the conversation for me in my mind.

00:40:32.70
Russell Gibson
That's fair.

00:40:36.30
Russell Gibson
Interesting. Well, I've got a basketball card for for Bill because, you know, everyone gets their own card. 1957 tops. Bill Russell in excellent condition. It's a PSA 5. Yeah.

00:40:51.78
Russell Gibson
um 165 of these. There's a few few going around. There's not that many. it ah The highest grade is actually PSA 9, but I went with the PSA 5 because it's probably... ah I use the term more affordable.

00:41:07.96
Russell Gibson
The pop count is 165, this last sold for $7,300 US dollars. And that is in PSA 5, so there's like some dings in it. The centering's not great.

00:41:22.70
Russell Gibson
um I mean, you can get a PSA, a PSA three for $3,800. Um, yeah, if you get this card in a PSA one, it'll still cost you, yeah, two and a half grand.

00:41:38.17
Russell Gibson
Anyway, this is a very old bar.

00:41:39.53
Andrew Lewis
so It's almost a 70-year-old card.

00:41:40.10
Dan Shea
Ooh.

00:41:40.88
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yes, correct. Correct. Um, But yeah, if you get it in a PSA 9, there is no value. The estimated value hasn't even been guessed. It has never been sold.

00:41:52.91
Russell Gibson
There are only three of them men in existence and they would have all gone to collectors. That would be my guess anyway. Anyway, we've just spent a whole segment worth of time talking about Bill Russell.

00:42:08.16
Andrew Lewis
Good.

00:42:08.22
Russell Gibson
So we'll take another break and then we'll move into the second round of the draft where we go 4, 5 6, surely.

00:42:14.17
Andrew Lewis
We'll go quicker.

00:42:15.99
Dan Shea
Thank you.

00:42:16.11
Russell Gibson
All right.

00:42:19.70
Russell Gibson
And we are back.

00:42:23.62
Russell Gibson
Andrew, how are you feeling with your pick?

00:42:27.21
Andrew Lewis
um I'm very happy with my pick and i'm ready to be re-agitated.

00:42:32.32
Russell Gibson
Oh, good, good. It's Dan's pick first. you burn Maybe you won't be agitated yet.

00:42:34.38
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:42:35.90
Russell Gibson
You could probably... Dan's obviously happy he got the first pick, so he didn't...

00:42:38.93
Andrew Lewis
He could make me very happy.

00:42:39.32
Russell Gibson
there was nothing

00:42:40.91
Andrew Lewis
He could make me very happy.

00:42:42.32
Russell Gibson
It's because this is possible because he'll make you very happy. I'll infuriate you.

00:42:46.56
Andrew Lewis
yeah you clear rolls

00:42:47.50
Russell Gibson
Brace yourselves.

00:42:47.77
Dan Shea
Yeah,

00:42:48.75
Russell Gibson
we're on We're on to number four.

00:42:48.90
Dan Shea
i

00:42:50.96
Russell Gibson
is is Andrew going be happy, sad, or indifferent?

00:42:54.21
Dan Shea
I suspect indifferent. um So I don't think I'll be surprising anyone particularly with my pick. um So um I'll be picking um the the man with a million nicknames. I'm going to choose some of the ones I don't i haven't heard before.

00:43:12.63
Dan Shea
um Big Musty, the record book, hook and letter, Whip, Whipper, Norm. the Did I say the load? um Perhaps better known as the Big Dipper or Wilt the Still, Wilton Norman Chamberlain.

00:43:28.39
Andrew Lewis
The load, I mean, really.

00:43:33.02
Dan Shea
Well,

00:43:35.48
Russell Gibson
While we're keeping it 100. Far out. um

00:43:37.50
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, better say I've got a question I can't ask it on a family broadcast.

00:43:37.58
Dan Shea
it was... it it was

00:43:42.10
Dan Shea
It was a different time. It was a different time. Um, you know, there's a time and place for everything and it was called the sixties.

00:43:47.43
Russell Gibson
far yeah

00:43:52.30
Dan Shea
Um, so, i mean, we really, we'll, was always going to be somewhere in the top three, four. um I mean, uh, Shaq was a surprise.

00:44:04.03
Russell Gibson
Was he? Was he? Was he going to Was he always going to be there?

00:44:08.81
Dan Shea
Well, I think so.

00:44:10.49
Russell Gibson
I'm surprised.

00:44:10.71
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:44:11.29
Russell Gibson
I'm surprised by your pick.

00:44:13.90
Dan Shea
Um, uh,

00:44:14.89
Russell Gibson
I thought you were going to have a dream theme to your selections tonight. Yeah.

00:44:22.44
Dan Shea
well, I mean, I will say like, you know, in, in, in my, in my mock, in my mock, I may have been considering, um, him here, but, um,

00:44:24.29
Russell Gibson
Don't worry, he'll come around by the time you get to your next pick.

00:44:35.31
Dan Shea
uh, took a bit of an audible because we'll still available. So, um, you know, like the, uh, the human NBA record, basically, you know, seven times scoring champ, 13 time all-star, um, uh,

00:44:38.97
Russell Gibson
True.

00:44:45.95
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

00:44:50.93
Dan Shea
11 time rebound champ with a career average of 23 rebounds a game.

00:44:52.60
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

00:44:54.53
Dan Shea
I'm just shy.

00:44:55.47
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:44:55.93
Dan Shea
22.9, 10 time all.

00:44:56.45
Russell Gibson
It was a different time.

00:44:57.99
Dan Shea
Yeah. 10 time all NBA, uh, four MVP, two all defensive one time just for giggles. Um, he decided to, he set out two and did the, uh, the assist champ, uh, let the league and assists.

00:45:13.36
Dan Shea
Um, the only player who will ever score a hundred points in an NBA game.

00:45:17.44
Russell Gibson
The only player to have ever at scored more points in a game than Kobe Bryant.

00:45:17.78
Dan Shea
um,

00:45:22.31
Dan Shea
Well... Um...

00:45:23.65
Andrew Lewis
I don't know if I'm like 100% on the only player who ever a 100 game.

00:45:24.07
Dan Shea
and

00:45:27.39
Andrew Lewis
There a situation where Doncic...

00:45:30.39
Andrew Lewis
there is a situation where don tri gets into a game, maybe LeBron is sitting out against one of these horrific defensive teams.

00:45:42.01
Andrew Lewis
I don't know.

00:45:42.35
Dan Shea
well

00:45:42.37
Andrew Lewis
i can see i think I think there'll be another 80-point game. I think Kobe's just never in trouble.

00:45:45.47
Russell Gibson
I think it's it's possible. It'll be done by a Laker.

00:45:49.98
Dan Shea
um

00:45:51.16
Andrew Lewis
Austin Reeves.

00:45:53.01
Russell Gibson
don't know.

00:45:55.86
Dan Shea
um ah But, you know, this is a player who averaged 50.4 points in a season by himself, um along with 26 rebounds, um you know,

00:46:10.06
Dan Shea
There are all of these great stories about Wilt. And i think we've talked about this on the Three Old Guys Talking Ball pod a number of times about how when we're talking about kind of historical significance, there's always this, okay, well, except for Wilt,

00:46:17.77
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:46:27.31
Dan Shea
who did such and such, right? Like when we're talking about this trivia, we really have to, and there are all of these great stories about Wilt because he was also one of the world's great, um, self mythologizers, you know, the famous one about, Oh, well, you know, look, maybe it was, maybe, maybe was 19,999, maybe it was 20,001, yeah, I slept with 20, about 20,000

00:46:30.42
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah.

00:46:44.96
Dan Shea
Um,

00:46:49.60
Dan Shea
about twenty thousand women um You know, that he committed to in print. There was one point where he was going to fight Muhammad Ali um in a proper boxing match. After he retired from the m NBA, he was close this close to taking ah taking taking work as a delivery man.

00:47:00.18
Russell Gibson
no yep

00:47:07.68
Dan Shea
He wants dunk the ball so hard that it broke someone's toe.

00:47:12.83
Dan Shea
Um, uh, not from him landing on them. I should be clear. The ball went through the basket so hard. It broke a hall of famer, Johnny red Kerr in the foot and broke his toe.

00:47:24.50
Dan Shea
That's the ball. Um, um, um

00:47:30.05
Andrew Lewis
the The load was delivered.

00:47:33.41
Dan Shea
Uh, he was, he was, he was so much stronger than everyone around him. He used to just like picking grown men up around and, and walking around while carrying them.

00:47:37.49
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:42.04
Dan Shea
Um, you know, he was grabbing, grabbing, grabbing quarters off the top of the backboard and, um, secret law. This is, this one's contended, but I guess many of them, um, uh, but the, know, that he, he played very successfully and illegally underage in a, uh, uh, in an adult men's league and dominated as a, as a, a, a young teenager, um, under, uh, under an assumed name.

00:48:12.34
Dan Shea
Um, And I mean, the the the the that the stories go on and on. I mean, there was one point where, you know, known weak point of his game was he was a poor free throw shooter.

00:48:24.33
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:48:25.08
Dan Shea
um To the point where he decided to ah take some tips from um famously good and... um unorthodox free throw shooter, Rick Barry.

00:48:39.94
Dan Shea
And he shot, um he he tried shooting his free throws underhanded, um shot the best percentage the year, and then was so embarrassed by how he looked, he stopped and went back to his terribly inefficient regular ah free throw shooting style.

00:48:40.28
Russell Gibson
yeah

00:48:53.30
Russell Gibson
Mm.

00:48:53.47
Andrew Lewis
least he tried it At least he tried it.

00:48:55.57
Russell Gibson
least he tried it.

00:48:56.34
Andrew Lewis
Shaq was on the record saying, I'd rather miss every free throw than try it underhanded.

00:49:01.67
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:49:03.22
Dan Shea
wilt never found out ah Wilt never failed out of an NBA game.

00:49:03.75
Andrew Lewis
Heart of a champion.

00:49:09.14
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

00:49:09.48
Russell Gibson
They never went hard enough, obviously.

00:49:09.76
Dan Shea
I'll say... Well, he was just dunking the ball hard enough to break people's toes. Um...

00:49:18.99
Andrew Lewis
But as soon as he got his fifth foul, he was a turnstile. Because he played...

00:49:22.60
Russell Gibson
That's it. Just straight up, defense.

00:49:23.84
Andrew Lewis
he played

00:49:25.06
Russell Gibson
That's it.

00:49:25.36
Andrew Lewis
No, because he played like that. that not Never getting found out streak was the most important thing to him.

00:49:32.98
Dan Shea
And I think there are a few things that are really important that that really actually capture some of the things we've said about some of the other players that have been picked ahead of on this list. Is that he really was someone who had all the physical gifts.

00:49:48.73
Dan Shea
Reputedly, in addition to everything else, he had a 40-inch vertical. um And he'd been a like ah ah like a track and field champ at the yeah at the varsity level.

00:50:00.91
Dan Shea
Um, and you know, he was someone who was really, really enjoyed fame. He enjoyed, you know, he, he played with, he engaged in publicity stance and he played with the Harlem Globetrotters and, um, you know, he was someone very much enjoyed, um, enjoyed his fame.

00:50:20.90
Russell Gibson
the showmanship of it though like they're being in the spotlight yeah of course

00:50:25.26
Dan Shea
and And he was a fascinating rival and great friend in the end um with Bill Russell with such a different style.

00:50:33.95
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:50:35.15
Dan Shea
You know, he was a kind of a showboat. And actually, I think something in the way russ Russell played him, there was a real strategy to it because he never, he played hard.

00:50:45.98
Dan Shea
He never, he didn't antagonize Will. he in a way kind of got under his guard. The head to head record is not as one side as you might think, given, um, given Russell's overall success.

00:50:56.30
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:51:00.37
Russell Gibson
The result.

00:51:03.17
Dan Shea
Um, you know, will tended to underplay his general averages, but still outplay, uh, Russell on counting stats and things like that.

00:51:12.02
Russell Gibson
Yep.

00:51:13.34
Dan Shea
Um, but because he, he didn't win as much, um, You know, that that part of it is not really remembered. There's ah this idea that wilt wasn't really a winner.

00:51:24.55
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:51:24.70
Dan Shea
um

00:51:25.26
Russell Gibson
Take note, Luca.

00:51:27.31
Dan Shea
And I think, yeah, and I think it's it's it's it's important to just remember that in addition to all of these individual honours... individual honors

00:51:36.52
Russell Gibson
Accolades. Yeah, yeah. Winning is important.

00:51:39.20
Dan Shea
um Right? um He was also two-time NBA champ. It doesn't sound that impressive when you compare it to will to Russell's 11.

00:51:49.77
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:51:51.94
Dan Shea
But give ah if we if we remember that he was playing in a league with that historically great dynasty, um ah sometimes in the same conference, sometimes in the opposing conference...

00:52:08.63
Dan Shea
and he still won those two championships. This is the player who won Rookie of the Year and MVP in the same season, right?

00:52:15.12
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:52:16.61
Dan Shea
um

00:52:17.23
Russell Gibson
That's pretty crazy, isn't it?

00:52:18.29
Andrew Lewis
Did he win the MVP the year he scored 50 points a game?

00:52:18.96
Dan Shea
And...

00:52:24.09
Dan Shea
That's a good question. i don't...

00:52:26.61
Andrew Lewis
Oh, I know the answer.

00:52:26.99
Dan Shea
a

00:52:27.53
Andrew Lewis
Nope.

00:52:28.78
Dan Shea
Probably not. no ah No, he was second.

00:52:30.66
Russell Gibson
Second.

00:52:31.69
Dan Shea
Yeah.

00:52:32.01
Andrew Lewis
it was who hoop Who won the MVP that season?

00:52:35.11
Dan Shea
Probably Russell.

00:52:36.81
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, it's also the season Oscar Average of triple-double, but...

00:52:41.01
Dan Shea
What a season.

00:52:41.00
Russell Gibson
Interesting season.

00:52:42.42
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:52:43.08
Dan Shea
um And it's it's so amazing. And again, i think I'm stealing um Adam's lines from previous discussions we've had on um the Three Old Men talking ball three i've been Talking Ball podcast. But it's amazing, but it's also true that Wilt has become underrated now.

00:53:06.73
Russell Gibson
Ooh. Or is it underrated or is it appropriately rated on on the scale that we're measuring on, right?

00:53:17.25
Dan Shea
I think it depends on which group you're asking.

00:53:21.85
Russell Gibson
That's true. The audience is definitely an important part. But I'm, um yeah, it's interesting.

00:53:28.94
Andrew Lewis
more than any More than any other team sport, basketball, and particularly NBA basketball, it is, don't know.

00:53:29.14
Russell Gibson
I'm, I'm, I'm,

00:53:41.37
Andrew Lewis
ah The general feeling is if the the championship is won by the team with the best, most dominant player, and if you can find the appropriate system and role players to put around that player,

00:54:01.77
Andrew Lewis
all the All the statistical description and physical description of Wilt is true.

00:54:02.45
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:54:09.52
Russell Gibson
Yes.

00:54:09.80
Andrew Lewis
And yet, except for the year where led the league in assists, which is the year the sixth book when he was playing in Philadelphia where they won 68 games and won the NBA championship, which was also the first year Red Outback wasn't coaching the Celtics and Bill Russell was.

00:54:20.06
Russell Gibson
um Yeah.

00:54:27.74
Andrew Lewis
And the 72-73 season at the Lakers where they won 33 games right after Elgin retired and Will Chamberlain was certainly not in his prime.

00:54:40.20
Andrew Lewis
Will was vanquished at the most important moment every other time.

00:54:47.31
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:54:50.52
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:54:54.59
Andrew Lewis
So, Wilton, in one respect, is the most difficult to put in a historical context because I think we've all yeah we've all had the we've all said, you know, they the almost all NBA statistics should have an asterisk.

00:54:59.64
Russell Gibson
I don't know, that I'm just... yeah

00:55:09.37
Andrew Lewis
So, just like when they put up the list, it's just like, not including Wilton. is

00:55:13.60
Russell Gibson
I feel like there needs to be a formula that you apply to each era. And I don't mean any era in particular. think each one has its own calculation factor that needs variables that need to be applied to it to see what the stats look like.

00:55:34.82
Russell Gibson
Anyway, I'll i'll go in into deeper detail about that.

00:55:37.94
Andrew Lewis
But the championship's disparity between him and Russell is is so stark.

00:55:41.40
Russell Gibson
It's huge. Yeah, it's massive.

00:55:42.83
Andrew Lewis
And yeah yeah, record in playoffs against each other, records in game sevens against each other.

00:55:43.18
Dan Shea
Absolutely.

00:55:43.99
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

00:55:44.66
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

00:55:45.51
Russell Gibson
Yeah. ands But that's that that's the yeah the the self versus team um mindset, right? Yeah. Simple as that.

00:55:55.42
Andrew Lewis
It's just, what do you value?

00:55:56.29
Russell Gibson
It's I am great versus we are great. Simple.

00:55:58.95
Andrew Lewis
yeah

00:55:59.34
Russell Gibson
um i

00:55:59.59
Andrew Lewis
what do you value?

00:56:00.49
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah. it's a team It's a team first thing. There's nothing team first about Wilt. that's That's as simple as that. um This one is from the vault. ah There's a story behind this one. The 1961 Fleer, Wilt Chamberlain.

00:56:16.72
Russell Gibson
I've got the PSA 8. No, the PSA 9 up on the screen. No, I don't have it on the screen. That's pretty Ta-da. Now, this card is important because there are 32 of them in the PSA 9, and the last one sold in December last year for $132,000.

00:56:38.97
Russell Gibson
Now, somebody inherited their father's or their grandfather's basketball cards, and they got a near mint one of these out of a collection and had it great and it was a PSA 10.

00:56:53.35
Russell Gibson
It's the only PSA 10 in existence of this card from 1961 and it has not yet been sold. It has been suggested that this card by itself is is is a million-dollar card that someone's just found in their

00:57:06.58
Andrew Lewis
Jeez.

00:57:12.94
Russell Gibson
since-deceased father-grandfather's basketball collection. And it's just like, a hey, you got a bunch of granddad's knickknacks. Here's a million-dollar basketball card.

00:57:23.95
Andrew Lewis
Here's a will.

00:57:24.22
Russell Gibson
And, no, obviously they didn't know. Yeah, and it was wilt Will Chamberlain, yeah. So an interesting one to,

00:57:33.06
Russell Gibson
yeah, trash and treasure story, I guess, for the for the for the collectors out there. Anyway, I'm not going to go. I'm going to work on what the what I think these variables should be. Yeah.

00:57:47.31
Russell Gibson
But speaking of variables and applying formulas, I'm going to break the cycle again with my number five pick because Andrew's about to get super triggered.

00:57:55.20
Andrew Lewis
you

00:58:01.03
Russell Gibson
And look, I feel like we've spent more time talking about each of these centers than every other player we've spoken about in the previous pod. So I'll kick this along pretty quickly.

00:58:12.20
Russell Gibson
With the number five pick, I'm taking Nikola Jokic.

00:58:15.33
Dan Shea
Knew it.

00:58:18.80
Dan Shea
I knew it.

00:58:18.86
Russell Gibson
The disco, Andrew didn't just shut down the thing and disconnect and leave. it' He's done it again. Twice.

00:58:27.66
Russell Gibson
yeah Yeah. That's right. Nikola Jokic.

00:58:32.75
Russell Gibson
This man should have five MVPs by the way. um this is This is the man that single-handedly reinvented the centre position, um showed that in the modern era of basketball where there's not just 100 blokes playing, but there's there's well over 500 players in the league, is doing it all, averaging a triple-double, and not just stat padding.

00:58:56.74
Russell Gibson
I'm talking leading the league in each... each stat category consistently through the season and dominating as a result. This man could take four 12-year-olds out onto the court with him and find a way to win an NBA game.

00:59:11.88
Russell Gibson
Nikola Jokic has etched himself as one of the greatest centers this game has ever seen. And I'm drafting him with the fifth pick.

00:59:25.27
Dan Shea
um

00:59:26.00
Russell Gibson
You can go first, Dan, because I think Andrew's just, I'll just wait for the steam.

00:59:31.14
Dan Shea
ah

00:59:31.82
Russell Gibson
come off his head.

00:59:32.35
Dan Shea
So, ah well I think part of this is that I think there's a very real chance that Andrew was planning to take him with the next pick. um But, um look, I think the thing about Jokic, the only thing that um had me...

00:59:47.53
Andrew Lewis
um

00:59:50.34
Dan Shea
um uh, hesitating, uh, with this list is that as dominant as he's been with as little kind of relative support as he's had, um, on that team in terms of what a team that didn't have him on, it could have made of his teammates.

01:00:10.52
Russell Gibson
yeah

01:00:11.29
Dan Shea
Right.

01:00:11.44
Russell Gibson
yeah

01:00:13.68
Dan Shea
Um, It's that his story isn't yet finished. And so as a result, it's like, you know, we're, we're banking somewhat on trajectory.

01:00:18.81
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:00:23.37
Dan Shea
I mean, there's a chance that Wemby's going to, you know, kind of blow all these guys out of the water once we finally see him, his final form. Right.

01:00:30.74
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Jokic is done as of this season, I've still got him at five.

01:00:35.83
Dan Shea
Hmm.

01:00:38.61
Dan Shea
ah um'm i'm I'm just saying, right, like in terms of that um kind of duration duration of legacy so far.

01:00:39.53
Russell Gibson
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:43.44
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:44.37
Dan Shea
Right. So, you know, height of peak, you know, really i don't don't question it at all.

01:00:47.90
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:00:49.86
Dan Shea
um

01:00:50.42
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:00:51.36
Dan Shea
And, you know, i don't I don't hate it. Like, you know, I i would have been amazed if he hadn't made the list at all. um I think he deserves to be on it.

01:00:59.72
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:01:00.15
Dan Shea
um Which means that really it's about, you know, the any arguments are really about the place his placement, right?

01:01:05.41
Russell Gibson
What's the end of this? Yeah, yeah.

01:01:08.91
Dan Shea
um But, you know, that ability he has to just make the most of whoever happens to be on his team, that stamina he's got.

01:01:22.32
Dan Shea
where you know people are literally counting like the visible scratches and stuff on his body to try to pick up signs that he's slowing down during hard-fought playoff series.

01:01:30.81
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:01:35.51
Dan Shea
And the fact that despite being a big man

01:01:40.94
Dan Shea
does a lot of his damage either off the pass or off the shot from pretty long way away from the rim, particularly for a big guy. He's so consistent, just so consistent.

01:01:52.28
Dan Shea
And had, um you know, I think he, not by the end of the season, but I'm pretty sure there was a point in the season where he, this last NBA season, where he was leading the league in three-point percentage

01:02:01.63
Russell Gibson
yeah and literally Yeah, he he was just, he was literally doing it all.

01:02:09.53
Dan Shea
um You know, I think, like I say, the knocks that exist, um you know, there's one that's a bit spurious, which is that he's not a good defender, which is not really true. He's not the best for his size and position.

01:02:23.21
Dan Shea
He's not the best one-on-one defender um or kind of rim protector.

01:02:25.03
Russell Gibson
Yeah, but he he does he doesn't he doesn't do the things that you expect of a center. you He's not the block leader. He's not the, yeah.

01:02:32.13
Dan Shea
But as a team defender, you know, those long arms his long arms spread out to the side as well as going up.

01:02:33.48
Russell Gibson
Yes, he plays his role. Yep.

01:02:38.07
Dan Shea
And he might not block that many.

01:02:38.47
Russell Gibson
As in help defense, he's good on help D, and that's, yeah.

01:02:40.05
Dan Shea
Yeah. he's he he He gets a lot of steals for a center.

01:02:45.43
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:02:45.68
Dan Shea
um And so, you know, i i i don't i don't hate it. it's um it's It's not who I expected to be picked picked here. But this is sort of not far away from the range I had him in my mock.

01:02:59.11
Dan Shea
in my head. um So yeah, I'm really, I'm really, yeah Andrew looks like he's recovered enough to give us give his take.

01:03:06.65
Russell Gibson
Is the word recovered? Is the word recovered? I don't We'll find out. Andrew.

01:03:11.52
Andrew Lewis
Do the card.

01:03:13.94
Russell Gibson
oh boy. Wow.

01:03:16.00
Andrew Lewis
Do the card.

01:03:17.78
Russell Gibson
Oh, are we going to get full old man rant? This is great. I'm going to get the light blue PSA 10. I've got the light blue because of the Denver color match.

01:03:29.12
Russell Gibson
Yeah. So I'll just get this up for everybody playing at home. This is the 2015 Panini Prism, Nikola Jokic rookie. Light blue prism, numbered to 199, PSA 10, last sold for.

01:03:45.14
Andrew Lewis
Wow.

01:03:46.32
Russell Gibson
And we're just going to look at the last couple of years. Actually, all time probably funnier. If you'd bought this card back in 2020... twenty No, 2019, this specific card would have set you back $305.

01:03:59.56
Russell Gibson
Last sold May this year for $9,200. um And there was a sale previous to that that was $11K. But yeah, 23 of them out of the $199.

01:04:11.48
Russell Gibson
Great card, underrated. Bigs have never sold well in the card collecting world, but I think Jokic is the real deal and there's a market for those cards. Passing on to Andrew now.

01:04:24.06
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:04:24.32
Russell Gibson
do i need to do Do I need to hit the sensor button or anything?

01:04:25.81
Andrew Lewis
No, no.

01:04:28.59
Andrew Lewis
No, that's fine.

01:04:29.25
Russell Gibson
No?

01:04:30.00
Andrew Lewis
ah

01:04:30.05
Russell Gibson
No.

01:04:31.91
Andrew Lewis
And to be fair, if Adam had picked the player, um he should have picked with his fifth pick. I would be picking Nikola Jokic right now because I had Jokic six.

01:04:42.11
Russell Gibson
No.

01:04:45.60
Andrew Lewis
But the disrespect

01:04:50.53
Andrew Lewis
We're talking about players who've become underrated, forgotten even.

01:04:58.37
Andrew Lewis
I'm sorry it's had to come to this for me, picking in six for half. but This guy fell to here because he's, I had him ahead of, I had him ahead of two setters, Dan.

01:05:09.35
Dan Shea
Yeah, you

01:05:09.58
Andrew Lewis
And the two guys I had him ahead of were the two guys Adam picked.

01:05:13.15
Russell Gibson
Ha ha ha ha

01:05:15.48
Dan Shea
ye

01:05:18.54
Andrew Lewis
So with the sixth pick in the centre draft, I pick Hakeem Olajuwon. Now, Adam says in his erudite, articulate s summation of the Nicole Jokic unfinished career, that he could pick a bunch, you know, he can drag a bunch of 12-year-olds.

01:05:23.66
Dan Shea
yeah

01:05:44.67
Andrew Lewis
Let me just clear away the

01:05:46.26
Russell Gibson
Sam Cassell was 13, not Shack, yes.

01:05:46.85
Andrew Lewis
the

01:05:49.51
Andrew Lewis
let me just click let me just Let me just clear away the thick layer of hyperbole on that and talk about the team that Hakeem Olajuwon led to a final sweep against the aforementioned Shaquille O'Neal in the 1995 NBA Finals.

01:06:11.09
Russell Gibson
baby shack yes

01:06:11.12
Andrew Lewis
This was after beating... This was after... Was he in nursery school?

01:06:16.51
Russell Gibson
May as well be.

01:06:16.85
Andrew Lewis
Was... um

01:06:18.88
Russell Gibson
Skinny Shack, how about that?

01:06:20.24
Andrew Lewis
Okay, well, just so let me let me get my let me get my yeah hyperbole remover off again because you just re relayed some on there. um This was after, in the Western Conference finals, not just being a bit eviscerating,

01:06:34.72
Andrew Lewis
that year's MVP and scoring leader, David Robinson, who we're probably going to mention in the last four picks at some stage. That was after beating in the conference semifinals, Adam's boy, the third best forward of all time, removed talking marks, Karl Malone.

01:06:49.02
Andrew Lewis
And that was before in the first round of the NBA playoffs, beating, or i think was the other way around, Charles Barkley, you probably just missed out on the top 10 forwards of all time. this is This is Hakeem Olajuwon's

01:06:59.99
Russell Gibson
okay

01:07:02.12
Andrew Lewis
team that he played to those and NBA fans, Hakeem Olajuwon.

01:07:03.08
Russell Gibson
okay

01:07:06.22
Andrew Lewis
So his starting lineup was Mario Eli, wasn't in the starting lineup a year before for the 94 NBA champion Houston Rockets, a washed up Clyde Drexler, Kenny Smith and Robert Ori.

01:07:18.59
Andrew Lewis
Now remind me which one of those guys has and a 50 point and NBA playoff game. It's probably none of them, unlike one of Nikola Jokic's teammates.

01:07:28.57
Russell Gibson
Big Shot Bob's not a nobody.

01:07:28.84
Andrew Lewis
and the bench And the bench that he used that that season was Sam Cassell, Charles Jones, and Chucky Brown. Now, Charles Jones and Chucky Brown's family might know that they played in that game, but not many people either do either. In Game 4 of the 1994 NBA Finals, when he beat oh Patrick Ewing, who might also met get get mentioned in the last four picks in this draft, Carl Herrera played 25 minutes for the Houston Rockets.

01:07:57.12
Russell Gibson
God, if I'd pick Wemby, you'd be the...

01:07:57.85
Andrew Lewis
So everything that's true about Jokic and his supporting cast is more true of Hakeem, who has two NBA titles.

01:07:58.80
Russell Gibson
Okay. Okay.

01:08:05.50
Andrew Lewis
One where he won, beat a 50-win team in every round, not a team that go made it the playoffs through the play-in in almost every round like Jokic did for his NBA title.

01:08:10.53
Russell Gibson
and king

01:08:16.94
Andrew Lewis
He beat Shaq. They played a competition. Hakeem was the better player. He won two titles. He was the best player for his entire career at Houston on his team.

01:08:29.49
Russell Gibson
I'm just trying to locate. Can you help me with this, Andrew?

01:08:34.03
Andrew Lewis
But again,

01:08:34.71
Russell Gibson
what set What season did Hakeem lead the um league in assists?

01:08:42.82
Andrew Lewis
never did.

01:08:44.02
Russell Gibson
No, because he averaged 2.5 for his career as opposed to Nikola Jokic, who averages a triple-double and...

01:08:50.40
Andrew Lewis
Well, I'll get into my DeLorean and we'll go back three or four weeks and we'll re-record the guard pod. Then we can give Jokic his flowers, okay? Hmm?

01:09:02.99
Russell Gibson
yep What's a Nubian?

01:09:04.79
Andrew Lewis
Now, that's unfair.

01:09:06.39
Russell Gibson
What's a Nubian? You almost made me laugh.

01:09:07.74
Andrew Lewis
What? I didn't say that.

01:09:09.15
Russell Gibson
No, I know. Yes.

01:09:14.31
Andrew Lewis
Look, look, to be fair, Hakeem played in a period where centers got center stats and guards got guard stats, except, oh, oh, Hakeem averaged nearly two steals a game for his entire career to go along with his 3.1 blocks.

01:09:26.32
Andrew Lewis
1990, Hakeem averaged 6.7 blocks steals combined.

01:09:28.19
Russell Gibson
Hang on. Hang on.

01:09:30.26
Andrew Lewis
hakim averaged six point seven blocks and steels combined Okay? So, yes, as Daniel mentioned, you know, Jokic is unfairly described as not a great defensive player.

01:09:36.91
Russell Gibson
Fair.

01:09:44.01
Andrew Lewis
But the list of guys who are not a great defensive player, list like like you know, next to Hakeem Olajuwon, is probably everyone who ever played in the NBA except Bill Russell.

01:09:58.02
Russell Gibson
ah

01:09:58.40
Andrew Lewis
Hakeem is criminally underrated.

01:10:01.79
Russell Gibson
Criminally underrated. I would have had it.

01:10:03.17
Andrew Lewis
Criminally underrated.

01:10:04.35
Russell Gibson
If I had your pick, I would have picked him 6-2.

01:10:06.29
Andrew Lewis
i i think i I think you're all just doing this for content purposes.

01:10:16.23
Russell Gibson
oh yeah

01:10:17.41
Andrew Lewis
I think this is a deliberate, cynical act um to get us to just get me angry because it plays good for the socials and the your AI-generated picture of

01:10:32.40
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:10:34.31
Andrew Lewis
picture Jokic dunking on Olajuwon as if Jokic can dunk the ball. um And that's not even taking into account Hakeem Olajuwon's, and this is another one for you young whippersnappers here and there, maybe you could Google it and call, you know, it's called low post moves.

01:11:01.88
Russell Gibson
So, so...

01:11:02.20
Andrew Lewis
And by the way, by the way, if Hakeem played now, if 22-year-old Hakeem came into the NBA in 2020, Hakeem would have a three-point shot. He was insanely skilled.

01:11:15.14
Russell Gibson
Except for passing. He never did that.

01:11:19.13
Andrew Lewis
Because he never played on a team with any good scorers.

01:11:24.09
Russell Gibson
Jokic played with a bunch of people that couldn't do work.

01:11:25.52
Andrew Lewis
I'm happy to concede.

01:11:26.73
Russell Gibson
I'm happy to the goal Jokic better passing Elijah.

01:11:27.22
Andrew Lewis
I'm happy to concede that Nikola Jokic is a better passer than Hakeem Olajuwon.

01:11:33.16
Andrew Lewis
but one sparrow does not a summer make.

01:11:37.13
Russell Gibson
True, true.

01:11:37.41
Andrew Lewis
No one playoffs where every team is like, here's another 43 win cupcake for you to knock down to get to that and NBA championship.

01:11:37.85
Russell Gibson
correct

01:11:45.39
Andrew Lewis
and call i could The defense rests.

01:11:52.58
Russell Gibson
On that note, I'll find a Kareem card, the good old... I'm going go to...

01:11:58.18
Andrew Lewis
Hakeem, the man's name is Hakeem Olajuwon. Do not put up a Kareem Abdul-Jubbar award or I will, you don't want to know what I'm going to do.

01:12:06.29
Russell Gibson
um It's Akeem, A-K-E-E-M, Olajuwon.

01:12:11.38
Andrew Lewis
The 86th Fleer rookie.

01:12:12.41
Russell Gibson
The 86 Fleer rookie. Akeem Olajuwon. In a PSA 10, the pop count on this is $354 and it lasts off at $3,960.

01:12:17.56
Andrew Lewis
So knew that.

01:12:26.35
Russell Gibson
Peak of this card, it's off at $25K during COVID.

01:12:31.50
Russell Gibson
But there has been a little bit of a dip.

01:12:36.37
Russell Gibson
Yes, not not highly coveted Hakeem cards, but he is a well-respected center. and And look, he was named before some of the others you mentioned, like David Robinson and Patrick Ewing and Mark Eaton, if we're going to go back to that Utah team that I seem to be in love with.

01:12:57.84
Andrew Lewis
and David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, guys in their peak who were beaten, destroyed by Hakeem Olajuwon.

01:13:06.01
Russell Gibson
Yes. One season does not ah does not a career make.

01:13:07.67
Andrew Lewis
Like Shaq.

01:13:08.56
Dan Shea
I mean, he did he did play he did play with a few decent scorers in time.

01:13:12.93
Andrew Lewis
Two NBA titles.

01:13:13.47
Dan Shea
I mean, you know, Charles Barkley and Clyde Drexler were no slouches, neither was Scottie Pippen.

01:13:20.40
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah.

01:13:20.75
Dan Shea
um

01:13:21.26
Russell Gibson
That's interesting, hey?

01:13:21.64
Dan Shea
I mean, it was it was the later part of their career, but still.

01:13:24.10
Russell Gibson
But you don't want to pass to those people.

01:13:25.23
Andrew Lewis
Oh, it was the later part of their career.

01:13:25.59
Russell Gibson
Why would you want to pass to people? Why would you want to pass the to Scottie Pippen?

01:13:29.33
Andrew Lewis
who was it

01:13:29.64
Russell Gibson
andpa why would you want to pass the ball to scottie pippen

01:13:32.43
Andrew Lewis
Did they ever average like, were they averaging 26, 27 points a game while they were playing with them?

01:13:39.06
Dan Shea
Well, there's only so much to go around. I mean, ah but...

01:13:41.26
Andrew Lewis
There was enough for Shaq and Kobe. I mean, come on. 15.

01:13:44.95
Russell Gibson
All right, all Houston.

01:13:51.59
Russell Gibson
Pippen averaged 15 in Houston, 15 a game in Houston.

01:13:54.41
Andrew Lewis
fifteen

01:13:54.53
Dan Shea
Barkley averaged 19.

01:13:54.89
Russell Gibson
hey would ah hey He would have averaged more if Hakeem had passed the damn ball to him.

01:13:55.95
Dan Shea
Barkley averaged 19.

01:13:57.83
Andrew Lewis
o Ah, cause Shaq had such a huge assist rate too. He was passing to Kobe all the time.

01:14:11.62
Russell Gibson
You're right, this makes for great content.

01:14:12.81
Andrew Lewis
Shaq had a better supporting cast in every one of his NBA titles than Hakeem did.

01:14:18.35
Russell Gibson
oh

01:14:19.03
Andrew Lewis
I just read you the Hakeem, you know, supporting cast. Do have to go through the rest of the his 19?

01:14:24.47
Russell Gibson
No, no, no, no, we're fine.

01:14:25.89
Andrew Lewis
nodding Vernon Maxwell, Otis Thorpe, Earl Cureton, Chris Gent.

01:14:27.52
Russell Gibson
yeah

01:14:33.35
Russell Gibson
God, we we thought we you were going to go full old guy on us and you picked someone from the nineties. We remember Hakeem Olajuwon. Come on.

01:14:40.25
Andrew Lewis
Really? Then act like it.

01:14:46.28
Dan Shea
All right.

01:14:46.35
Russell Gibson
Good, good point. Um,

01:14:49.27
Andrew Lewis
On the other hand, the next peak is where things get interesting.

01:14:49.58
Dan Shea
All right.

01:14:51.85
Russell Gibson
All right, all right. I'm going to go to one final quick break. When we get back, we'll just go through the rest and things will get more than interesting.

01:14:59.82
Andrew Lewis
Hopefully I'm still alive.

01:14:59.89
Russell Gibson
And um we're going to try and avoid a cardiac event from Andrew.

01:15:04.89
Andrew Lewis
Oh.

01:15:15.68
Russell Gibson
And we're back. Andrew, how are you are you feeling are you feeling calmer, refreshed?

01:15:22.49
Andrew Lewis
Oh, I just damned a double whiskey, so I'm good.

01:15:26.66
Russell Gibson
That'll settle you for Dan's next pick, but i don't know about mine. All right.

01:15:29.84
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:15:31.60
Russell Gibson
On we go.

01:15:31.96
Andrew Lewis
I don't know. Who on the earth is going to be picked? Just, Dan, just be sensible.

01:15:37.81
Russell Gibson
Please.

01:15:41.90
Dan Shea
Oh dear. um Just, you've definitely taken your antihypertensives, mate.

01:15:46.87
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:15:47.73
Dan Shea
All right.

01:15:48.49
Russell Gibson
He's going to pick Wimby.

01:15:48.54
Dan Shea
All good.

01:15:49.77
Russell Gibson
Watch this.

01:15:51.09
Dan Shea
um ah No, I feel like I'm being... relatively dull in this draft. Um, so look, there were a couple of pretty worthy people I thought about, um, here.

01:16:03.62
Russell Gibson
Mmm.

01:16:04.27
Dan Shea
I've, I've got a feeling that, um, the one that I almost picked here is going to get picked next. Um, but, um, uh, here i think, you know, yes, wanting to spread out the era is a bit.

01:16:17.44
Dan Shea
Um, but, um, with the seventh pick, um, I'm going to pick Moses Malone.

01:16:23.44
Andrew Lewis
Good man.

01:16:23.77
Dan Shea
Um, So, you know, mentor of ah Andrew's favorite player of all time, um when they were both playing for Philly, six-time total rebound champ, 13-time All-Star, 83 NBA champ, um three-time MVP, ah MVP.

01:16:38.15
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

01:16:41.77
Dan Shea
um and a finals uh mvp two-time all defensive uh selection um and while he did start off uh in the aba it was really just a little while and because he started playing very young for his era you know he started playing at 19 um he started playing in the nba the year he turned 21 um and um and and and played through until he was 39, although he was clearly showing the effects and proving again that Father Time is undefeated by the end of that.

01:17:18.54
Dan Shea
But during that time, um this was a guy who from center was really a really, really dominant rebounder during an era where that was more common for power forwards by that point.

01:17:35.17
Dan Shea
um and just a great kind of ah inside scorer, not the kind of gaudy shot blogger that... um I say gaudy, that's not to devalue it.

01:17:45.93
Dan Shea
Wasn't the high um high block number um kind of rim protector that someone like a larger one was, um or the person I suspect is going to get chosen next.

01:17:49.67
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

01:17:56.13
Dan Shea
um But just ah such a consistent, dominant rebounder, inside scorer, um a historically great offensive rebounder specifically, um led the league in that even more times than the league in total rebounds, to the point where he was um you know he was a lock to be kind of right up there giving his team second chances.

01:18:13.88
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

01:18:18.32
Dan Shea
Yeah. um And for a guy who really wasn't, um yeah had a very, in some ways, very classic offensive game for a kind of ah you know a front court player, forward, center, um he was um very it was really kind of powerfully effective um on on um both and ends of the court. Not so much as a shot blocker, but again,

01:18:41.84
Dan Shea
um You know, some from that center position who averaged close to a steal a game. um And 12.3 rebounds and 20 points over a really long, um very, very physical career.

01:18:55.64
Dan Shea
um So, yeah, that's that's my guy.

01:19:00.87
Russell Gibson
Moses Malone. Interesting, I...

01:19:02.53
Dan Shea
The chairman of the boards.

01:19:04.27
Andrew Lewis
No one maximized their potential performance probably in the history of the NBA more than Moses Miller.

01:19:16.60
Andrew Lewis
And he got the most out of himself.

01:19:18.37
Russell Gibson
He did, he did.

01:19:19.23
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:19:20.33
Russell Gibson
um I'm just trying to find a card. There's not a lot of of Moses Malone. Like there's a little bit, but i I thought I would go back into the vault. and find something nice we did have a 1975 tops stars card moses malone psa 10 pop count on this is 39 last sold for 18,900 dollars um yeah nice little bit of cardboard i'll uh share that for all those playing at home uh

01:19:53.17
Russell Gibson
Yeah, not a lot. Obviously, the 1986 Fleer, he makes an appearance. he He's where he's... Yeah, there's not a lot of basketball cards out here, but this one probably probably being the most impactful.

01:20:17.42
Russell Gibson
That rather calm. and Maybe he did...

01:20:21.28
Andrew Lewis
Moses is who I had next, so I'm happy with that.

01:20:23.37
Russell Gibson
quelt Quelled the fire. Oh, how do I annoy you then with my eighth pick?

01:20:27.59
Andrew Lewis
Please do.

01:20:28.88
Dan Shea
somehow like Somehow I think you've got it in you.

01:20:28.94
Russell Gibson
um

01:20:31.69
Russell Gibson
I feel like I've been able to achieve this. um No, I do not have Victor Wembenyana.

01:20:38.60
Dan Shea
yeah yeah

01:20:41.66
Russell Gibson
I'm not. I'm not picking Wembe.

01:20:48.68
Russell Gibson
I'm not. Oh, do I? I was and it was...

01:20:55.99
Russell Gibson
All right. I'm going to do something. I think Andrew will actually be really calm for this one. At number eight, I'm going to pick Bob McAdoo. I'm just actually picking someone to send a five-time All-Star, three-time scoring champ, two-time NBA two-time All-NBA champion.

01:21:20.57
Russell Gibson
72-73 or rookie. Rookie of the year in 72-73. Won the MVP in 74-75 and was part of the and NBA 75th anniversary team.

01:21:35.89
Russell Gibson
No violent reaction, Andrew?

01:21:38.14
Andrew Lewis
ah You just made my next choice really easy because I was large getting torn because of who I had. my

01:21:42.42
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:21:42.80
Russell Gibson
Is McAdoo one of your final selection points?

01:21:43.40
Andrew Lewis
I was going to I had Macadu on my list of players for consideration, but I...

01:21:53.14
Russell Gibson
i was i was I was, yeah, I was tempted to to to to stay in the 90s, and I didn't. I thought, i'd you know what, look back on history a little bit. Yes.

01:22:02.63
Andrew Lewis
The numbers are incredible in his peak.

01:22:06.55
Russell Gibson
Yes.

01:22:07.42
Andrew Lewis
and something that centers just not achieved really. I mean, the only guy since Kareem who has put up Bob McAdoo likes scoring numbers is Joel Embiid.

01:22:21.33
Russell Gibson
yes

01:22:21.49
Andrew Lewis
So who who none of us are about to select for ideological reasons.

01:22:22.23
Russell Gibson
yes

01:22:25.40
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:22:28.20
Russell Gibson
Yeah?

01:22:29.00
Andrew Lewis
So,

01:22:31.12
Russell Gibson
Very much yes.

01:22:32.62
Andrew Lewis
so um

01:22:35.82
Andrew Lewis
I just, I thought someone else was going to go at eight and now I get to pick them. And if that person been picked, then my next choice would have, I written down an order and I was rethinking it as I was sitting here.

01:22:46.78
Russell Gibson
Yeah, so I was debating, and and I guess I'll show a card and then I'll i'll ask the question of you, Andrew, if the next if the if player I'm thinking is the player you you're going to pick.

01:22:47.15
Andrew Lewis
So.

01:23:00.31
Andrew Lewis
Yep.

01:23:00.55
Russell Gibson
What

01:23:04.04
Russell Gibson
have we got? I've got a PSA 10, 1973 tops, bob McAdoo. Very nice little, I guess it's a rookie card.

01:23:14.92
Russell Gibson
PSA 10, last sold for $43,900. There's five of these in existence. Although Card Ladder says that's overvalued and suggests that if you're looking to buy one, it's probably only worth about the 18 to 20K mark.

01:23:29.85
Russell Gibson
So what do I know? Oh, yeah, PSA 9, there's 81 of them, and they last sold for $700. So maybe that's why they think it's only worth $18K.

01:23:42.08
Russell Gibson
Interesting. Interesting. I actually have a Bob McAdoo autograph somewhere in this collection that I've got. So, anyhow. Obviously, because if he's backing up our number one pick.

01:23:55.46
Andrew Lewis
But what is yeah he won his championships as no longer the best player on that on the team.

01:24:02.44
Russell Gibson
Yes.

01:24:03.19
Andrew Lewis
yeah He was a role player by that stage.

01:24:05.60
Russell Gibson
Yes, he was.

01:24:06.31
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:24:08.62
Russell Gibson
Very much so. Did Don the purple and gold.

01:24:12.12
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. I say that as a potential segue.

01:24:15.77
Dan Shea
Yeah. Maybe.

01:24:17.92
Russell Gibson
All right, so my first question was going to be, um sorry, the question after the card.

01:24:22.18
Andrew Lewis
yeah

01:24:24.03
Russell Gibson
Is there a military rank for the next person?

01:24:26.21
Andrew Lewis
There sure is. And it's right at the top of the guys in the boats and the ships. It's...

01:24:34.30
Dan Shea
da

01:24:35.04
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:24:37.44
Andrew Lewis
This is... Actually, he's actually got two nicknames on basketball. The other one is just D-Rob. So that doesn't count. It's the Admiral. It's David Robinson.

01:24:46.62
Russell Gibson
Excellent.

01:24:47.10
Andrew Lewis
um Who won NBA championships is no longer the best player on the team. Um... But before he got injured in the season that they they ended up hugely contributing to San Antonio's draft position, the name of the year, Tim Duncan, there was a seven-year peak of David Robinson.

01:25:06.27
Dan Shea
Thank you.

01:25:06.45
Russell Gibson
Mm.

01:25:10.92
Andrew Lewis
Remember, he didn't start in the NBA until he was 24 years old. He played four years at Navy and then did two more years of military service. So he was 24 when he played his rookie season.

01:25:18.74
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:25:21.01
Andrew Lewis
um So by the time, not yeah know, 95, 96, which was his last year of his proper peak, he was 30, 31 years old. So, but yeah, again, he almost averaged 30 points a game in 94, didn't win the MVP that year. It was the year Hakeem won it and then he won the MVP the next season, famously scoring, I think, 73 points on the last day to win the scoring title and take it away from Shaq.

01:25:49.37
Andrew Lewis
So,

01:25:51.58
Andrew Lewis
Another incredible defensive player. um That 92 season, he averaged four and a half blocks and 2.3 steals when he won his Defensive Player of the Year award.

01:26:02.51
Andrew Lewis
um

01:26:06.67
Andrew Lewis
Four times all NBA first team at a time when it was not a slam dunk, to mix a metaphor, to be named all first team.

01:26:15.97
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:26:16.25
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah, of course.

01:26:17.09
Andrew Lewis
There was competition. to be the, and they named one center. They were like, hey, let's change the rules so we can name Ewing and Robinson and Elijah Wan all to the All-NBA first team.

01:26:21.09
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:26:31.27
Andrew Lewis
So there we go. It got bitter. i Give the people what they want.

01:26:33.53
Russell Gibson
yeah course

01:26:34.57
Andrew Lewis
um

01:26:37.20
Andrew Lewis
But, you know, clearly a incredible scorer, an incredibly skilled big man. I think another one who, if he had come into the NBA in the mid 2010s, would have developed range and would have developed a three-point shot.

01:26:50.31
Andrew Lewis
um

01:26:51.04
Russell Gibson
oh

01:26:51.34
Andrew Lewis
Actually, in 1994, he had 10 threes and took 29 of them. So there's some indication that he might have developed some three-point range, pretty much so.

01:27:04.45
Andrew Lewis
um And then Tim Duncan came along and it helped him win two NBA titles at the end of his career when he was just helping out.

01:27:15.59
Andrew Lewis
But even in 1999, that season where they won his title when they won the title, he was fourth in defensive player in twelfth and 12th in MVP voting.

01:27:16.29
Russell Gibson
Just doing it, just doing his thing.

01:27:22.25
Andrew Lewis
He probably was behind Tim Duncan in both of those awards, but still a very significant part of that that first San Antonio Spurs NBA title. um

01:27:31.96
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:27:34.47
Andrew Lewis
And someone I'm very comfortable taking at nine and very comfortable not having to sound like a grumpy old man for my last pick amongst the 30 players.

01:27:47.95
Russell Gibson
that is that's it that is your That is your final pick. And I'm going to go a bit different, I think, with the with the card selection. i am going to

01:27:59.08
Russell Gibson
mix it up a little bit. um I should have gone for a different card now I thought about it. But I'm going to go with the Scoring Kings. um I probably should have gone that for Shaq, let's be fair. That's...

01:28:11.08
Russell Gibson
Jordan's synonymous with this card, but the 1992-93 or 93-94 Fleer Ultra, David Robinson, Power in the Key, Raw last sold for $23.

01:28:26.17
Russell Gibson
The Michael Jordan's the big card because it's worth two grand or something. In a PSA 10, this last sold for $1,500 US, the scoring kings. But traditionally they go into about the PSA 9 mark and The David Robinson in a PSA 9 are sold for $315.

01:28:45.30
Russell Gibson
So Scoring Kings, another one of those cool-looking sets where from the 90s where the Jordan's worth a lot of money and the rest of it's just easy to collect.

01:28:54.90
Andrew Lewis
interesting trivia stat bit factoid about the importance of centers historically is we've picked nine and seven of the nine we've picked have been were either selected first or second in the nba draft

01:28:59.39
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

01:29:11.36
Russell Gibson
So if if they pick a center first, then it's probably going to be a good center.

01:29:15.27
Andrew Lewis
yeah i was just like yeah and one who was drafted through a yeah draft through the ad

01:29:17.31
Dan Shea
Yoke, it averages it out though, right?

01:29:20.33
Russell Gibson
And you pick 43rd during a Taco Bell ad.

01:29:28.31
Russell Gibson
That was pretty funny.

01:29:29.57
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:29:31.87
Dan Shea
You're after to play backup behind it the other rookie that year.

01:29:37.19
Russell Gibson
Insulting much?

01:29:38.41
Andrew Lewis
nurkage

01:29:41.35
Andrew Lewis
The Bosnian beast.

01:29:42.56
Russell Gibson
That's a nice day, Rob.

01:29:46.45
Dan Shea
Um,

01:29:47.33
Russell Gibson
Anyway, Dan.

01:29:48.19
Andrew Lewis
Drum roll for the last pick of our whole shebang.

01:29:51.93
Russell Gibson
This is it. No pressure. You can pick any centre you want now that's remaining.

01:29:53.70
Andrew Lewis
No pressure.

01:29:58.83
Dan Shea
Well, you know, I guess, you know, this one's, it's an interesting one because there's a lot of leeway here.

01:30:03.66
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

01:30:08.50
Dan Shea
You know, do we go with tradition and go right back to the earth very early days? um Do we, do we think about someone who had maybe a less even career, but a really high peak?

01:30:23.21
Dan Shea
um Do we um look at ah look at people who had kind of really great high-pressure, high-profile moments of coming through adversity?

01:30:36.05
Dan Shea
um i mean, i had a bit of a think about all of these guys. I wasn't really thinking about anyone for this whose career story is still being written, although, you know, I think that's... We've got some great candidates in the making.

01:30:52.13
Dan Shea
Jokic was the only one that made my current 10, would have made my current 10 on this. And so I did. I genuinely thought about this one. um i I hadn't come in deciding because there have been a few curveballs in this draft.

01:31:08.79
Russell Gibson
You're welcome.

01:31:09.14
Dan Shea
motion Yeah, yeah. You know who you are. And um so...

01:31:19.14
Dan Shea
Um, so I thought to cap it off for the last pick in this draft, um, I thought I would give a I would actually give a nod to, um, tradition.

01:31:23.34
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

01:31:35.73
Dan Shea
Um, the first great Laker.

01:31:41.88
Dan Shea
George Michael, responsible for um the and NBA titles that the Lakers count, but were not one in Los Angeles.

01:31:51.08
Russell Gibson
Hey, hey, hey, hey, it's enough shade out of you, all right?

01:31:57.52
Dan Shea
There's a, um you know, in

01:31:58.74
Andrew Lewis
So he won five titles with the Timberwolves, excellent.

01:32:03.03
Dan Shea
in an era, in an era where no one dunked, you know, this, this ah George Michael,

01:32:08.80
Russell Gibson
The rules hadn't even been established properly yet, be fair.

01:32:11.61
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:32:12.12
Russell Gibson
and a three-time-best star.

01:32:13.54
Dan Shea
George Myken was a four-time All-Star, a three-time scoring champ. um

01:32:17.78
Russell Gibson
Mm-hm.

01:32:18.31
Dan Shea
Between the BAA and the NBA, he won five total ah championships. um An All-Star MVP. And... and you know, he's, he's, he's the one that those drills under the basket, just practicing, practicing, practicing, practicing the Mike and drill.

01:32:32.19
Andrew Lewis
Thank you.

01:32:37.87
Dan Shea
It's, uh, it's famous. Every player does them. Um, you know, it's a big part of training, uh,

01:32:43.41
Russell Gibson
hu

01:32:44.28
Dan Shea
Just a dominant big man. And I think as well, you know, look, recognizing the competition, he was a giant in that era.

01:32:53.52
Russell Gibson
yeah yeah for sure

01:32:54.16
Dan Shea
um You know, he's he's a player who, you know, um would have been reasonably sized. In fact, the basketball reference page doesn't list his height, but I'm pretty sure he was six ten

01:33:05.32
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:33:05.84
Russell Gibson
yep

01:33:06.56
Dan Shea
So, you know, center-sized, kind of, like, you know, you could you could there are there are plenty of 610 players who have played center over the years, um but certainly not um towering over people um the way, you know, ah we the Kareems and the Wembees and...

01:33:24.44
Dan Shea
the Wilts have done in their respective eras. But certainly, and this is a guy who post basketball, post playing career, I should say, still remained pretty involved with basketball. He the CBA years, the successor to which is the League these days.

01:33:51.32
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:33:52.34
Dan Shea
Um, and, um, you know, became pretty involved with, uh, basketball administration post career, um, played a, what by today's standards is a, an amazingly short career. Um, you know, played for, um, played for six, played for six seasons, then retired, then unretired and played one more.

01:34:03.26
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:34:14.25
Dan Shea
and,

01:34:14.47
Andrew Lewis
you

01:34:15.46
Russell Gibson
The best part about that is how, how like that's how many championships did he win?

01:34:15.70
Dan Shea
and

01:34:22.77
Dan Shea
ah Five total between the two leagues.

01:34:23.59
Russell Gibson
How many seasons did he play?

01:34:25.69
Dan Shea
Total of seven.

01:34:26.52
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:34:27.66
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:34:30.04
Dan Shea
um

01:34:30.11
Russell Gibson
Pretty good stats.

01:34:31.80
Dan Shea
You know, and in those in those those years when he was winning championships, he was averaging... um

01:34:40.28
Dan Shea
Back he was averaging 28 points game, 14 rebounds, 3.2 assists on 23.5 field attempts a game. fourteen rebounds

01:34:44.63
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

01:34:45.57
Dan Shea
you

01:34:47.75
Dan Shea
um you know on twenty three and a half field all attempts a game um

01:34:52.62
Russell Gibson
Mm-hmm.

01:34:53.82
Dan Shea
And um yeah, you know, I mean, by today's standards, nothing particularly flashy about a very kind of mild-mannered looking giant man. um But just a really important player in his year, in his day. You know, 27.1

01:35:15.44
Dan Shea
just kind of going to show how dominant he was that era where they played fewer games, people were smaller, the game was played kind of low, and there were a huge number, a huge volume of shots being thrown up.

01:35:25.67
Dan Shea
And even those throwing them up close, who were good at it, were hitting less than half of attempt.

01:35:29.85
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:35:32.80
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:35:35.48
Russell Gibson
Nice.

01:35:35.52
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, I think if you pay attention to what said before about putting person people in historical context, then Michael has to be in the top 10.

01:35:46.55
Andrew Lewis
But the game is so removed.

01:35:50.84
Russell Gibson
From that.

01:35:52.29
Dan Shea
Hmm. Yep.

01:35:52.50
Andrew Lewis
you know

01:35:53.66
Russell Gibson
Hmm.

01:35:53.77
Andrew Lewis
I don't think you need to compare. you know I think...

01:35:58.45
Andrew Lewis
I'm sort of breaking my own rules here, but even comparing, thinking what would have a Pete Mikan done up against a Pete Russell, let alone, I know he technically doesn't play, but can you imagine, yeah just trying to keep, appreciate that George Mikan plays the same sport as Giannis Antetokounmpo.

01:36:08.39
Russell Gibson
yeah

01:36:11.56
Russell Gibson
Shaq or Jokic.

01:36:15.41
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:36:20.96
Dan Shea
ye

01:36:22.09
Russell Gibson
Yeah. and And look, yeah.

01:36:22.89
Andrew Lewis
Yeah, that makes it difficult because

01:36:24.10
Russell Gibson
it's he wore He wore his spectacles on the court. Come on.

01:36:28.68
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. Well, a nice bookend because um the guy drafted number one. It's his MasterCard,

01:36:35.68
Russell Gibson
Wore goggles. Yes.

01:36:37.31
Dan Shea
Mm.

01:36:37.89
Russell Gibson
um I do have a card. I found a card.

01:36:42.19
Andrew Lewis
isn't it?

01:36:42.29
Russell Gibson
They made cards back then.

01:36:42.80
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. it's his mastercard isn't it

01:36:47.96
Russell Gibson
Clever. I like it. No, this is a 1948 Bowman, George Mikan. ah Number 69, mint condition, PSA 9, because it's got a recent sale for it.

01:37:05.73
Russell Gibson
last sold August this year for $524,500. There are four existence.

01:37:12.31
Andrew Lewis
oh

01:37:12.52
Russell Gibson
there are four four of these in existence Right? that's in near mint, like the nearest to near mint you can get. One tiny little defect.

01:37:23.16
Russell Gibson
There is PSA 10 that was sold back in 2015 for like 400K. But the estimated card ladder value puts this card at an approximate $2.5 million. There's one of it.

01:37:38.10
Russell Gibson
this one of it

01:37:42.45
Russell Gibson
And in case you didn't get the memo in the previous episode, we talked about the final auction price of that Kobe Jordan. That went for $10.6 million US.

01:37:55.16
Dan Shea
Holy Christmas.

01:37:55.25
Russell Gibson
u um Plus buyer's fee, it was $12.9 million US. s Anyway, yeah, that's some that's a nearly, yeah.

01:38:03.33
Andrew Lewis
That's like 20 million Australian dollars.

01:38:06.63
Russell Gibson
Yeah, the on conversion, it's just under $20 million Australian.

01:38:07.05
Andrew Lewis
Yeah. That's weeks of Auslotto jackpots, as in you have to wait for... the tock Remember, we are Aussies.

01:38:14.63
Russell Gibson
That's a hell of a Powerball. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:38:17.00
Dan Shea
So what's...

01:38:18.75
Andrew Lewis
You need to put things in their context, like how many people is that, have how many MCGs would that fill, um that sort of thing.

01:38:19.65
Russell Gibson
Context.

01:38:25.06
Russell Gibson
But it is, like, it's 20 million, twenty almost 20 million Australian dollars

01:38:28.35
Dan Shea
It's what's the, what's the delta between that and the previous sale price?

01:38:33.90
Russell Gibson
of the Kobe. that was like a while back.

01:38:35.95
Dan Shea
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:38:37.02
Russell Gibson
Like, yeah, yeah.

01:38:39.60
Russell Gibson
a while back like ah ah two yeah

01:38:41.58
Dan Shea
So someone's, someone's held it for a while.

01:38:43.49
Russell Gibson
Yep.

01:38:43.52
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:38:43.97
Russell Gibson
Yep. But it's, it, in the time that it sold originally, had, it was 25,000 it was sold for. Then it was sold for like 176,000. And now sudden it's gone for $12.9 million. uh, the, the, 176 was six years ago.

01:38:54.64
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:38:56.07
Russell Gibson
twelve point nine million dollars

01:38:58.68
Dan Shea
Yeah. Yeah. When was that? When was that? The 176? Hmm.

01:39:01.89
Russell Gibson
so

01:39:01.94
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:39:02.63
Russell Gibson
ah the the ah hundred and seventy six was six years ago

01:39:08.95
Russell Gibson
Yeah, you'd feel like a real idiot if you were the one. So the person that, yeah, anyone that traded cards like that in that one-of-one Kobe or Jordan thing for anything less shy of absolute ridiculous money is probably out of pocket now.

01:39:25.61
Dan Shea
yeah

01:39:26.14
Russell Gibson
I mean, they probably got a good deal, but anyway. But i think I think this is, going back to Mikan, like this is a, there's five of the, in PSA 9 or 10, there's five of them in existence.

01:39:38.84
Russell Gibson
So it's ah it's a piece of history. So the person that paid half a million dollars for one of these PSA 9s, obviously it's a piece of a Lakers history. So it makes it, well, there is an impact collecting wise, be it Boston, be it Los Angeles, like the dynastic type teams

01:39:59.38
Russell Gibson
attract a bigger market as far as collectors and things. so And especially the way the Lakers are one of those franchises that get in into the spotlight and like the Showtime era, that attracts those collectors and and the like.

01:40:15.17
Russell Gibson
So... But yeah, 48 Bowman, it's a nice looking card too. I don't know about his dribble style in that, but it's an action shot maybe.

01:40:26.23
Russell Gibson
Who knows?

01:40:28.73
Russell Gibson
But yeah, Pease it.

01:40:29.05
Andrew Lewis
where team Wolf got his dribble style from, isn't it?

01:40:31.88
Russell Gibson
and Probably, probably. um so that that's ah that's the top 10. Shall we quickly recap and tie this ah and tie this bad boy off

01:40:40.77
Andrew Lewis
please.

01:40:40.93
Dan Shea
Hmm. Let's. let's

01:40:42.34
Russell Gibson
All right. In number one, we have ah Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. In number two, we have the big diesel Shaquille O'Neal.

01:40:53.04
Russell Gibson
Number three, of course, the winningest player, according to Andrew and other experts, it is Bill Russell. Number four, Wilt Chamberlain. Number five, Nikoli Jokic.

01:41:06.20
Russell Gibson
Number six, Hakeem Olojuwon. Number seven, Moses Malone. Number eight, Bob McAdoo. Number nine, the Admiral, David Robinson. And number 10, we have George Mikan. I think that's a really solid top 10.

01:41:23.56
Andrew Lewis
yep

01:41:23.69
Russell Gibson
I actually think it's a ah well-spread, quite reasonable top 10.

01:41:23.92
Dan Shea
So...

01:41:29.53
Russell Gibson
Did anyone have any of those players well and truly out of their top 10?

01:41:35.69
Andrew Lewis
mean, Will and Truliat, I had one of those players was 15 in my rankings.

01:41:40.12
Russell Gibson
Was that Shaq?

01:41:41.58
Andrew Lewis
No.

01:41:44.22
Andrew Lewis
But it was one of your picks.

01:41:47.60
Russell Gibson
No, what?

01:41:48.14
Dan Shea
um

01:41:49.17
Russell Gibson
What? Oh, McAdoo.

01:41:52.88
Russell Gibson
Interesting.

01:41:53.22
Dan Shea
so Yeah, I mean, look, i had I had all of them in my list. My original list was, ah what, 17 or 18, I think.

01:42:01.08
Russell Gibson
i I was tempted to, I wanted to do McAdoo at, sorry, I wanted to pick Mikan at eight, but i thought um I thought he was more of a ninth or a tenth pick.

01:42:11.02
Dan Shea
um But, you know, like, I'm not mad at it. Like, all of them all of them would have been in my top 10. And McAdoo's, like, wasn't in my top 10, but he was, you know, kind of in that area. And, you know, it it does come down a little bit to that, you know, looking at ah Peaks as well.

01:42:28.21
Dan Shea
Like, you know, he was just a fantastic scoring um big man um in his day.

01:42:28.43
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:42:32.78
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:42:35.12
Dan Shea
um And, um you know, i think one of the things about the center draft is that we've got this interesting um kind of interesting position where the pool for center is...

01:42:48.68
Dan Shea
kind of half as big as it is for the other two kind of categories, right?

01:42:52.38
Russell Gibson
yeah

01:42:53.23
Dan Shea
Because they really they're really two positions each. But it's such an important position that, you know, the the top few, right, there are some really, there are some names that um were just going to have to be in there in some order.

01:43:08.00
Dan Shea
um

01:43:08.90
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:43:09.09
Dan Shea
But because it's only one position, there's also this kind of, um ah there's a lot of variation around the edges.

01:43:14.95
Russell Gibson
The drop off is quite quick.

01:43:15.96
Dan Shea
Yeah, right.

01:43:16.55
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:43:17.59
Dan Shea
um or just where you've got to kind of make these compromise. You know, we have historically and still really the most important defensive position. Most of the greats are great and memorable because they weren't only good on that end of the court, um you know, to the point where we've got

01:43:30.89
Russell Gibson
Yeah, the score is as well as yeah.

01:43:33.57
Dan Shea
To the point where we've got um a few and I guess, um ah well, McAdoo would fall into this category too, but you know, McAdoo and Jokic who are really most known for their contributions on the other end of the court.

01:43:46.35
Russell Gibson
Facility. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:43:46.98
Dan Shea
Right.

01:43:48.41
Andrew Lewis
Every time they do the voting for the defensive player of the year, they let us know they still think it's the most important defensive position on the court. So not bitter.

01:44:01.11
Dan Shea
Um, um, but I do find it interesting that, um, you know, there are some really great one end of the ball defensive centers who didn't quite, you know, didn't quite make our list, um,

01:44:18.88
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:44:20.60
Dan Shea
And in fact, looking at my, some of the the people who missed by not very much um on my list, um you know, none of them really fall into that category of the, you know, the elite one-way players either.

01:44:34.12
Dan Shea
um

01:44:34.76
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:44:36.56
Dan Shea
So, yeah, I mean, I think on balance, pretty happy with the list and i was expecting a bit of chaos sort of in the tail end.

01:44:41.41
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:44:44.86
Dan Shea
um and And I think we delivered

01:44:48.73
Russell Gibson
Yeah, I'm like, um if McAdoo hadn't been picked, I wonder who the next person was. Was Ewing? If I'd pick McAdoo instead of, sorry, if I'd pick Mikan instead of McAdoo, who do you go with your 10th pick?

01:45:01.60
Russell Gibson
Because that 10th pick is an interesting one for me.

01:45:05.80
Dan Shea
um

01:45:06.41
Russell Gibson
I have Ewing at the next the the next name that I was going to pop up.

01:45:11.55
Dan Shea
So, I had a couple. um So, the two, like, a few of the ones I was referring to when I was talking, because I really was genuinely a bit torn about this. So, others that I consider, Ewing was one of them.

01:45:23.66
Russell Gibson
ye Yeah.

01:45:23.86
Dan Shea
I was thinking about, like, wanting to give a nod to kind of more distant history. I kind of think of, because because because he played when we were teenagers, right? um And so, yes, Ewing was...

01:45:36.39
Dan Shea
ah Ewing was kind of close to getting, but I was also trying to think about some of the players who um played longer ago. Bill Walton was someone I thought about when I was thinking about kind of a high ah high peak because you know if it wasn't for his damn feet, he was a player who'd get on the court and do...

01:45:44.42
Russell Gibson
Okay. Walton's an interesting one. Yep.

01:45:53.23
Dan Shea
He was very versatile. you know He was a great defensive player. He was a great facilitator.

01:45:57.08
Russell Gibson
So we left Luke Longley off, by the way.

01:45:57.14
Dan Shea
um

01:46:00.09
Russell Gibson
He's goingnna he's going to start he's own do his own documentary on this now.

01:46:00.44
Dan Shea
Indeed,

01:46:03.68
Dan Shea
Indeed we did. That was a feature, not a bug. But still, I think they both agree on that in the Bogut doco thing they both worked on, didn't they?

01:46:06.89
Andrew Lewis
Bo-git before Longley.

01:46:14.03
Dan Shea
Anyway. doco thing they they both worked on

01:46:17.17
Russell Gibson
ah Agreed.

01:46:17.30
Dan Shea
didn't i anyway

01:46:17.92
Russell Gibson
Agreed.

01:46:19.60
Dan Shea
But I mean, i also thought about um ah so i also found myself thinking about Dave Cowens and Willis Reed. um And um you know

01:46:26.01
Russell Gibson
Okay.

01:46:29.36
Dan Shea
and then also starting to think about some of the other kind of ah you know old old-timey guys, Unselds and Thurmans. um

01:46:39.56
Russell Gibson
It's interesting that we're talking about old guys because Jokic is the only young guy that's on there.

01:46:45.20
Dan Shea
Oh, yeah, yeah. So, but, you know, when we're talking about, a you know, 75 year plus history, right? Like.

01:46:50.38
Russell Gibson
Yeah, true, true. I think we've we've we've done well to take from all. Because, look, Kareem, Russell, Wilt,

01:46:59.22
Russell Gibson
McAdoo, Malone, Mikan.

01:46:59.83
Dan Shea
on.

01:47:01.69
Russell Gibson
We've taken a lot from the older

01:47:03.99
Dan Shea
Hmm.

01:47:04.08
Russell Gibson
got two from the sort of the 90s. Well, Shaq's the 90s, 2000s. Shaq would be the second youngest. Jokic, obviously, the youngest.

01:47:11.84
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:47:15.01
Dan Shea
Yeah.

01:47:15.01
Russell Gibson
But we've we've talked about this, how our um how the centre position is is sort of – it was a dying craft.

01:47:20.87
Andrew Lewis
Ewing ewing was the ewing was the next one i had.

01:47:25.54
Russell Gibson
Yeah, yeah.

01:47:26.56
Andrew Lewis
um And some of the other names I had later on my list, because I wrote down 15 names have been mentioned, except one. And it was actually a younger player. I had Dwight Howard in my fifteen

01:47:40.55
Russell Gibson
Howard's a consideration. He was...

01:47:42.06
Dan Shea
yeah

01:47:44.41
Andrew Lewis
I think he sort of... Yeah,

01:47:46.36
Russell Gibson
He also fit into that um one of his championships when he was a role player as well.

01:47:50.80
Dan Shea
Mm-hmm.

01:47:50.78
Andrew Lewis
yeah. But I think there's a second half to Dwight's career that

01:47:59.64
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:48:00.37
Andrew Lewis
as we as as we sort of moved away from rating the centre position because teams weren't doing it, where his production in that period sort of the...

01:48:12.82
Andrew Lewis
Rockets, Charlotte, stage of his career. And he was getting moved around, um but he was still putting up pretty impressive numbers.

01:48:17.93
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:48:21.15
Andrew Lewis
So think that sort gets reached.

01:48:21.77
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:48:22.99
Andrew Lewis
of course, when he was in Orlando,

01:48:27.05
Andrew Lewis
his numbers were fantastic.

01:48:27.39
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:48:28.09
Andrew Lewis
He was the best center in the league and sort of unchallenged almost during that period, depending on how you think about Pau Gasol.

01:48:28.69
Russell Gibson
Incredible. Yeah.

01:48:35.27
Russell Gibson
Great. Yeah. yeah

01:48:39.88
Andrew Lewis
And when the Pau was a center,

01:48:43.30
Russell Gibson
mobile versatile that's the word anyway awesome alright well that was an interesting experiment ah feedback is Russell's happy for us to to take over the pod whenever he is MIA so i will um ah well extend the invite ah yet again should the opportunity arise and present itself this has been ah yeah a bit bit of fun i've I've enjoyed it we'll have to

01:48:45.83
Dan Shea
Thank you.

01:49:13.08
Russell Gibson
Find another thing to...

01:49:13.26
Andrew Lewis
Now, Adam, you want to make sure those you can't comp this listeners know that it's September now and we we're only like six or seven weeks out from the NBA season.

01:49:14.32
Russell Gibson
Yes, sir.

01:49:23.25
Andrew Lewis
So, um

01:49:24.65
Russell Gibson
the pods The pods are coming.

01:49:26.52
Andrew Lewis
yeah, but at, you know, end of September, early October, we've got our preview pods, which are always incredible as we go through every team. i guarantee there'll be more cranky rants from me if that's your thing.

01:49:39.34
Andrew Lewis
And really, if it's not that...

01:49:40.45
Russell Gibson
More may me shit-stirring Andrew trying to get those rants to happen.

01:49:43.45
Andrew Lewis
Yeah.

01:49:44.38
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:49:44.95
Andrew Lewis
And if cranky old man rants for me, aren't you thing, then that's disappointing. That makes me angry. um

01:49:50.57
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:49:52.73
Dan Shea
Shake your fist at the sky.

01:49:52.75
Andrew Lewis
But we'll get through we'll go we'll go through every team um and sort of place them in order.

01:49:53.70
Dan Shea
Come on, shake your fist at the sky.

01:50:02.82
Russell Gibson
Yeah.

01:50:03.18
Andrew Lewis
And it's all predictions, run all money back. So um

01:50:07.92
Russell Gibson
it's It's an entertaining, it's a long pod.

01:50:08.51
Andrew Lewis
please please be listening. Yeah.

01:50:10.70
Russell Gibson
It's a long pod. I would i would highly recommend recommend that listeners do just hit the subscribe button.

01:50:12.24
Andrew Lewis
Too long, Paz.

01:50:17.52
Russell Gibson
um It's a pod every couple of weeks. The preseason stuff is coming. It's going to be a lot of fun. so

01:50:24.06
Andrew Lewis
They're two of our favourite pods to do every year, their previews, with the the least in conference first, then the best in conference. Lots of well-worn things we say over and over again.

01:50:32.20
Russell Gibson
Well worn. Very, very much. Although my tune on Luka Doncic might change this year.

01:50:38.09
Andrew Lewis
Might be little different.

01:50:39.87
Russell Gibson
It might be slightly different. we've've We've come to an alignment where we've got shared goals.

01:50:44.74
Andrew Lewis
Promise you a different theme to our Lakers preview this season because I'm not going to be like the end of go as far as Anthony Davis can take them.

01:50:50.81
Russell Gibson
Yes, I reckon that the dallas sum the Dallas preview might sound similar though.

01:50:58.26
Dan Shea
go as far as Cooper Flag can take them.

01:51:00.58
Russell Gibson
Anthony Davis can take Cooper flag can take them. don't know. This is weird.

01:51:04.38
Andrew Lewis
Anyway.

01:51:05.12
Russell Gibson
Anyway, thanks guys. Appreciate the, the, the, the collab for the last three episodes or three, four, three episodes.

01:51:10.62
Andrew Lewis
if

01:51:12.54
Russell Gibson
I think Russell and I did one between, but yes, it's been a lot of fun. And yeah, if you haven't done so already, everybody, please check out three old guys talking ball.

01:51:22.89
Russell Gibson
We get to listen to me, Andrew and Dan. go on about basketball. Till the next episode. See you guys later.

01:51:34.85
Russell Gibson
Where's the stop button?

01:51:36.97
Andrew Lewis
How do you think it turned this thing off then?

01:51:37.11
Russell Gibson
ah

01:51:37.43
Dan Shea
You've got to keep that in. You've got to keep that in.