Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Congratulations, You’re Married—Now Cue The Panic
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Ever feel like you’re having the same fight on repeat—one of you craving more presence at home while the other longs to be seen for carrying the load at work? We dig beneath schedules and sarcasm to the two fears that quietly run many relationships: the fear of abandonment and the fear of rejection. Once those fears are named, the real hopes come into view: being wanted and being accepted by the person who matters most.
We walk through a vivid couple story—Shannon and Jake—to show how stress flips partners into protection mode. Then we trace where these patterns often start: performance-heavy childhoods that make acceptance feel conditional, and unpredictable bonding that makes closeness feel fragile. We also call out unhelpful gender scripts that told some of us provision should be enough and told others that being emotional is only for women. Healthier partnerships allow both people to bring their full selves—work, feelings, needs, and all—without penalty.
From there, we lay out a clear process to pivot from conflict to connection. You’ll learn how to speak your fear without attacking, validate the hope your partner is guarding, and design practical, bite-sized rituals that soothe the exact worry in the room. We share a ready-to-use repair script, plus concrete ideas like daily micro check-ins, appreciation habits that matter to the “rejection” partner, and scheduling anchors that reassure the “abandonment” partner. The goal isn’t perfection; it’s becoming messengers of hope for each other so fear doesn’t get the final say.
If this conversation helps, follow the show, share it with a friend who might need it, and leave a quick rating or review so more couples can find their way from conflict to connection.
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Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents. A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, and what you can do to fix what's broken. Y'all parents. Our dad, Dr. Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, Ann Mitchell.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr. Stephen Mitchell. I'm Aaron Mitchell. And on today's show, I want to ask you a question. What are you afraid of? It's a big question, right? But I mean in the context of your couple relationship. So let me set set the scene. Um I'm a pretty simple-minded individual. Correct, Aaron?
SPEAKER_02:Simple and easy are not the same thing, but so yes, simple, yes.
SPEAKER_01:All right. So I so I tend to try and reduce big problems down to their smallest common denominator.
SPEAKER_02:One of your greatest strengths, no doubt.
SPEAKER_01:And I think also one of the things that might frustrate frustrate you a little bit. Absolutely. Because you're always like, there's more to it than just that. Yes. All right. But this is what I do. So when it comes to thinking about couple relationships and why couples have conflict, um there is a way that I try to think about that big question and reduce it to its smallest common denominator. Yes, it's an important skill. And you actually talk about this a lot though, Aaron. And we talk about it a lot in our book, Too Tired to Fight. The idea that as human beings, we are always dealing with hopes and fears. Yes. I yes. Things we really, really want and things we really, really don't want to happen.
SPEAKER_02:This is such a present feeling for me. A fear lives very close to the surface for me. And I saw a post this week um that said Selena Gomez. I knew you would laugh when I brought her up. But apparently she just got married.
SPEAKER_01:Umgratulations, Selena.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, Selena, congrats. And she said, Well, it was reported that she said that the second she got married, she immediately was like, He could die tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01:Oh.
SPEAKER_02:And I was like, I don't think I've ever related to, you know, two sentences. Like, I was so excited in that one second, and then next second was like, Yeah, I could I could lose this all. Like, this is the best moment of my life, which means surely the fear just comes so quickly. And I really felt one, I felt very seen in that. And two, I think that is something so many of us can relate to. And now, again, maybe it's not quite that fear specifically, but the more we hope for something, the more we're afraid, or the more we're afraid, the more we're afraid to hope. Or those two things are intimately tied together, is my point.
SPEAKER_01:We I just know it. We'd like to dedicate this show to Selena Gomez. Um, we hope you have a great relationship, yes, to to all of you people. Um so, you know, in light of this, so one of our basic needs as human beings is to feel safe, loved, wanted, etc. All of that. You know, there's this deep hope that we will be safe, that we will be loved, that we'll belong, that we'll be wanted. And we want the this feeling and this safety and this love in human relationships, but we also have had experiences that teach us that our hope will not be realized and what we f and like what we fear the the most, which is not having connection and love and safety and belonging in human relationship, that that won't happen. And so then this or will be taken away, or be taken away, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Which is not happening. I understand what you're saying, but it's not just that it it we don't get it. Yes, we might get it and then lose it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so this leads us to you know protect against our fears, you know. We protect with avoidance or with withdrawal or you know, creating false selves, people pleasing, whatever it might be. Hypervigilance, hypervigilance, yes, so so that we won't lose what we really hope for, or what we have won't be taken.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, or at least, and I think for me, and I I don't think I'm saying anything you haven't said, but we we won't be surprised like we like we have been before, you know, like oh, at least I knew it was coming, or at least I knew it was a possibility, often creating said scenario because we're so sure it's gonna happen, we kind of make it happen.
SPEAKER_01:And so I think the way that this manifests for couples is oftentimes it manifests through what they fear. And I think that if if we reduce the two fears that partners might have, I would say that one of them is a fear of rejection, which is this um maybe communicated in this idea of a lack of acceptance, or a fear of abandonment, which might communicate in the sense of a lack of being wanted. I agree with those. And so, and we've we've talked about this before, but the reason we're talking about it again is because it happens all the time.
SPEAKER_02:And so I mean because Selena Gomez is afraid of it too.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. And we this again, we dedicate this show to Selena Gomez and Benny and Benny, uh to try and you know, um support you. This is our wedding gift to you. Um so and and so we sit there and we see couples and they uh sit across or they're on the screen because we see couples virtually. Um they're sitting there and they are expressing one of these two fears oftentimes in the conversation we're having. And so we want to maybe paint a little picture of what this looks like. So let's take Shannon and Jake. And Shannon and Jake love each other, and for the most part, they have a relationship where they enjoy one another and their kids in life. Yet there are these moments when it feels like the bottom of their relationship in life drops out. Moments when it feels like they might not make it, moments when they have the same old fight that leaves them with the same old dark feelings, and they can just feel exhausted by it. Today is one of those days. Jake's been really busy at work, and Shannon has been busy managing the household and navigating the kids' schedules and needs, and basically feeling like a single parent. So Shannon says, Hey Jake, I feel like you haven't really been that present with us this past week. You've just been off in your own world. Jake. Yeah, I know. Work's been pretty much um all I can think about. You know, the the client we're dealing with at work is really being particular about what they want from us, and I'm the I'm the one in charge of making sure it all happens. It's just a lot. Shannon, I get that. You are working hard, but we all are working over here too. I'm doing a lot for my clients, the kids, and I'm not feeling like I can rely on you to be present with us or help or even show the kids that you're interested in their worlds. I get work is busy, but your family and I would love to have you engage with us a little. Jake. Really, Shannon? You're going to pick now to bust my chops about being busy and disengaged. This happens sometimes. It's been one week. The deal is almost done, and then things get will go back to normal. Give me a break. I'm working really hard and I'm working really hard because it helps our family. You act like I'm just doing this for myself, Shannon. It's only been one week, Jake. How about the past three weeks? You started getting all stressed about this deal two weeks before you even met with the client, and then you'll finish the deal and you'll still be off and out of it for another week because you've been so jacked up with anxiety that it will take you a week to calm down. So one week is a joke. You've been gone for almost a month, and all that has to happen is another client needs something, and you get stressed, and this happens all over again. So we'll just sit here and hope we can catch you on a good week between all your stressful, big important deals. Jake. You know what, Shannon? You always have the same story. You aren't getting what you want, and you need so much special attention, and it doesn't matter what I do, I could not work, period, and you still wouldn't get what you need from me. Ouch. Yeah. But I think that this kind of conversation is a conversation that we hear on repeat with couples, and it could be about work, it could be about parenting, it could be about uh uh any number of things.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, absolutely. Yes, and it is, it's about different things. The content is different, um, or sometimes different. The content is often work, actually. Um, a few things. One, I don't think I've heard bust my chops in 30 years. Yeah, well, is that like an old man?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm the only person I think I've ever heard say it is my own father. So I felt like, whoa, I'm an old soul. Where'd that come from? Um, but my I actually thought it was spot on because I I think the sentiment actually is very, very reflective. Like, really? I think they're both having these moments of like, really? Um, and the answer is yes, really.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, because to Shannon's point, there's always gonna be stress in life. Yes. So can you learn how to engage while stressed? And the answer seems to be for the Shannons, and by Shannon, I mean Aaron's of this world, no. Oh, you are you're never gonna engage. So I just need to figure out how to live my life and be present with the kids and just not even hope for you to engage anymore. Fantastic. At least now I know. No need to, no need to want you in this anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I think that that's what you're getting at in terms of what's going on here is hopes and fears are colliding.
SPEAKER_02:No question.
SPEAKER_01:Right?
SPEAKER_02:So even internally, their own hopes and fears are colliding.
SPEAKER_01:And and then a sense that Shannon could be the one saying, I want you to be engaged and to know that you are with me. Like this this hope of like, if I feel like you're with me and you're you're present and we're doing this parenting thing together, where like you love me, you you care. That's what communicates love and safety, and that I'm important. You could hear in what Jake's saying is I want you to know I'm doing my best for you and the family. I'm working hard. And in a sense, Jake's saying, like, and I want that to mean something, I want that to be enough, I want it to be acknowledged and accepted, because then that means you would love and care for me. And there's those two hopes that they want. Like, I want to not feel rejected, I want to not feel abandoned, and yet in this conversation, the fear is winning because they're like, I feel abandoned and I feel rejected. And this is the kind of I think baseline, fundamental conversation that many, many, many couples we see are having. And and I think a lot of couples don't think it's about that, they don't think it's about abandonment and rejection.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, those are pretty buried. Right. Like because again, to your point, like this is like the core stuff. So no one comes in, I've been feeling abandoned by you today.
SPEAKER_01:But I'm presenting to Selena and Benny that this is at the core.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, no, I hear that.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I mean, I'm I'm presenting to like yes, we don't oftentimes think this, but we we need to begin to think in these terms because our conflicts will stay at a surface level and never get resolved if we don't recognize what it is we're actually talking about. And we'll be right back. Picture this it's late, the kids are finally asleep, and instead of feeling close, you and your partner are in another argument. We've been there. That's why we wrote Too Tired to Fight. The heart of the book is our conflict to connection equation. It's a step-by-step way to move out of the same draining conflicts and into connection, where you feel heard, resolve resentment, and repair after fights. And if you don't have time to read, we made sure it's also available on audiobook so you can listen anytime. You can grab Too Tired to Fight anywhere books are sold or on our website. And if you're ready for hands-on support, we also coach couples through these tools step by step. We open five new spots a month, starting with a free 20-minute consultation. You'll find the link for the book and the free consultation in the show notes. Too tired to fight, because even exhausted parents deserve connection. And now, back to the show.
SPEAKER_02:Because the other thing that I think does come out a great deal, and you can disagree with me on this. In fact, I think you probably will, is I think the fears.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Fears come out a lot more, like I'm afraid. Because um, even the even the little again, if for all I know, it wasn't even a real quote, Selena Gomez. I did not fact-check it, so I could be spreading a false narrative here. Um, but what the focus of that was was how fear so quickly can cloud a really beautiful moment.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But but the reality is, is I love you so much. Right. I've I've totally laid myself bare here, which is to say, I want you. I want a life forever with you. That is just as much the focus.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:That desire, that hope, that long.
SPEAKER_01:That's a beautiful thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But a lot of times that just is that just doesn't mean quite as much as, and I'm afraid I'll lose it. Yeah. And we spend a lot of time on the so I'm afraid I'll lose it. Right. Because we can get lost there. I I am a person who can get lost there. But the desire behind all of these things is I really want you. Yeah, it's hope.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, that that's the thing. And I and I think in some ways to understand the hope, we do have to understand the fear, what it is, where it comes from. I think uh a lot of times individuals who are struggling with that fear of rejection, you know, usually they come from these, you know, high, highly performance-driven environments, um, you know, where they feel highly criticized, where it feels like you know, you have to earn your keep, you have to earn your love. And and that's that is a really exhausting way of existing. And so, you know, Jake is feeling like he's reliving that really, really tough environment that he has wanted to get away from, that he hopes can be different with his partner, and his worst fears are being recognized in this moment. And then I think for Shannon, you know, those those fears of abandonment often come when there's a highly like inconsistent environment where connection was um either lost or non-existent. So kind of to your point, like you had connection and then it was lost, or you just never you never had the connection, but you always wanted it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, or just one of somewhere in the middle, too of unpredictable.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And so in in Shannon's mind, it's like, oh no, that thing is happening again. Or could. It could. And so I I think if you're if you're listening, like what where do you land? Like what is the the trend of your fears? Um, and is it related to some of those earlier experiences of that highly critical, high-performing environment, or just that inconsistent or non-existent level of connection? Because it's important for us to understand what it is our partner is dealing with. Like when I think about Aaron, and I think about like, oh, like her struggle with abandonment is is about this feeling like that she had beautiful connection and was lost, or she just didn't have it at all and always wanted it. Like, I'm like, oh, that's that's awful. And I can and it can connect me to also why she hopes so much, right? For receiving that from me. And in in a way, like I hear that, and I'm like, oh, well, like I most certainly want to give you that. Not because I feel, you know, um belittled into it, or I feel like, oh, I just gotta do this so that she, you know, feels okay or whatever it is, but simply because like, no, like I love you, I care about you, and I I don't want you to be living in fear. And I think the same would be true for you. Like, you don't want me to be living in fear, and so that idea of the understanding like those places of rejection for me, I think I at least I've most certainly seen it, like you're much kinder and softer. And um, your response to me is is always one of like, oh, like I understand that. I don't want that to be what's happening here. And so I again we we have to know what we're really dealing with so that we can actually address the conflict.
SPEAKER_02:I think one of the things that feels really important to state here too, but first, I loved everything you just said. That feels um vulnerable, both sides. Like that feels really kind and generous to both perspectives. One, but two, I think that we talk to people all of the time that assume that this is a male-female thing, that all males are jakes and all females are sheavens. And the reality is not true, that is not true. It's not true. However, even in the moments where that isn't true, there is a history where men were asked to provide and that that was supposed to be enough. And there is a history that says moms are supposed to be um like emotionally attuned, and even if not emotionally attuned, like just be allowed to be more expressive, and that was supposed to be enough. And if you needed more, go find a girlfriend, like join a book club, do something, our knitting club, or social community, whatever. That's not something that you're allowed to ask your partner for. Right. And I think, thank goodness, the social scripts on this have changed.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Um or they, yeah, we are changing, is that or need to change or continue to need to change. I mean, I think we still live in a world where those social scripts are very, very well and they're becoming loud again, right?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, unfortunately. And that is unfortunate because what we what we all need is holistic health. Like you do need to be able to feel like your work matters. All people need, we all we, I say you, we we all need that to feel like our work matters. We also have an internal emotional world. Humans do, not women. Humans do, right? And so I should say not just women, but um, that's not a female thing to like feel emotive or want to express. Um, so I just think it's really or to want to be accepted is not just a male thing.
SPEAKER_01:I mean of course not. That's just very um limited.
SPEAKER_02:It is so limiting. That's exactly right. And I think that it does feel like an important like please hear that. Yeah, and it's no longer enough. And we need to fight these um stereotypes, gender norms, because they are threatening to make a comeback. And I mean, we have three boys. I definitely want them to know that they're allowed, expected, wanted, needed, to be able to have their whole selves present and engaged and wanted, and to then invite that to a partner, should they ever have them, but either way, just to the world.
SPEAKER_01:So, you know, thinking about if we're really gonna talk about what's happening, if to address a conflict, um, you know, first of all, you need to sort of examine like what is the the core fear for me? Is it abandonment? Is it um rejection? And and I'm not trying to say these are the only things, I'm just saying these are oftentimes um the core fears.
SPEAKER_02:I I liked also too, though, the I I felt like it was a little more palatable to say, like, do you just want to be accepted or do you just feel like you want to be wanted? That just feels a little bit easier to locate, I think. And maybe I'm wrong. Um for me it was. I'm like, yeah, yeah, just want me.
SPEAKER_01:Just show me you want me. Well, and I I think that there's a process that couples can try to keep in mind when these conflicts come up. And I think the first is the first step to the process is you don't belittle the hope for yourself and your partner. Right. And and I think the way that you don't belittle it is you don't excuse away the reality that the fear has been awakened. Because oftentimes the hope isn't communicated, it's the fear. So Shannon is saying, I've I'm you're not with us. And Jake is sitting there saying, You're not accepting me. And we cannot belittle the hope that that demonstrates by saying, You're wrong. You know what, Shannon, you just need too much. Or Jake, you know what, right? You're really, you're really doing stuff uh for us. We should just all be happy with what you're doing. Like that, that is not um honoring to one another's experience. And so you can't uh belittle those things, you can't excuse away or defend away or tell your partner that their fear isn't legitimate. But then you have to communicate your fear, you don't attack your partner's fear. So, like what Jake can say is, you know what? Like, this is hard for me to hear. Um, I'm really working hard, and I'm I feel like what you're saying is like my hard work doesn't matter. And that that's really hard for me. Shannon, same thing. You know what? This is really hard for me. You're working really hard, you're gone a lot. And what that makes me begin to feel is like you're not here with us. And when I don't feel like you're with us, I feel like I'm left all alone. Like communicating those fears to one another is very different than attacking one another. And and I think when you can do that, that's where you can find the hope together. But because you're both communicating your fear, and and again, as we're talking about, like if I see Aaron communicate that fear, like my my response is to be like, I don't want that to be true for you. I want that hope of you feeling, you know, um connected and like you're wanted. I want that to be happening, and you want the same for me. You don't want me to feel rejected. And in that kind of conversation, you're actually working together towards hope. And that's what you can do, that's what your conflicts can become.
SPEAKER_02:I I I love that. I mean, I think again, like, oh, I just feel like, oh, you know, a little like uh a sense of an exhale when you say those things. I think the one thing I was going to add, well, it's not even an ad, it's just maybe an to describe is I think the way we attack our partner spheres. I think the Shannons, the Aaron's, you know, the people who trend more towards my side and Shannon's side of this, we say Jake's hope isn't relational.
SPEAKER_01:Sure.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um I look at Jake, I look at Steven, and I'm like, that's absurd.
SPEAKER_01:You want to be accepted just for stuff you do, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I can I can very easily, and I can think, you know, I can hear this sort of narrative of so many of the clients we have worked through this with, where it starts as like, I I don't see that as relational. I don't see that about you at all. I see that like we could hire that out. Like or yeah, or um honestly, like, let's live smaller. Sure. If I'm gonna get more of your engagement, if you're doing less, let's do less. I I just want us.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Um and and it and it's the the desire, the hope that like wait, you want to belong? You're gonna feel like I love you if you're doing stuff for me. That feels harder to to get to, I think, for the Shannons and the Aaron's. And I think that that's really important. Um yeah, because it doesn't feel relational.
SPEAKER_01:Equally, it's not as it's not fair for Jake to look at um Shannon and tell her you're just being needy, which just again says your hope, your forget, like that's that's too much. That's that is that's ridiculous.
SPEAKER_02:Or it's endless, it's bottomless. Like you're need, like, oh my gosh, if I met one, there'd be another. It's just or very selfish. Yeah, it can look, I think, um, same thing. Like, while the Jakes don't feel particularly relational, the Shannons just look selfish. Yeah. Um, which is funny because the Shannons are usually knee deep in diapers and uh they're doing a lot for other people. Yeah, I'm sorry. And and this is where they get really hurt, honestly, and the resentment builds so intensely because Jake's like, you're right. I just love doing really hard work and being told it's never enough. And Shannon's like, you're right. I'm a super selfish person that is literally taking care of every single thing.
SPEAKER_01:They can't do anything on their own and just needs, you know, somebody to go.
SPEAKER_02:What do I always say? The nine ring circus, but you're right. I'm just sitting back and taking care of me. So I just think these are the ways that they can be so I I do mean easily, misrepresented, mischaracterized, and misconstrued. And that hurts.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It really, really hurts.
SPEAKER_01:And so I think that there's a way we're we're gonna give you a repair script. And what what is a little unique about it is it doesn't really repair the conversation, it's more of a repair of how you get into having one of those conversations where it's like, let's find the hope together. Um let's do it. Um so here, you know, Jake comes uh and says, you know, hey, um, I got really defensive about what you said.
SPEAKER_02:Shannon says, and I came out strong about how I was feeling.
SPEAKER_01:Jake, I've been gone and not engaged. I get it.
SPEAKER_02:Shannon. And you've been working really hard, and I know that you work hard because you do want to do the best you can for us as a family.
SPEAKER_01:Jake, can we regroup and try the conversation again?
SPEAKER_02:Shannon in the script says absolutely, but I know for a fact that both she and are Jake saying, Can we regroup and try again? And Shannon saying, absolutely, is the scariest thing they can possibly do. She's like, Oh, I want it to go well, but I'm afraid, and I'd rather just say no and be like, forget it that you know the anger part happened, and now I want to resist the reconnection because it might not happen. And I think Jake's like, there's a really solid chance I'm gonna ask for this, but I'm just gonna get re-criticized all the way through.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so I again I think that you have to understand what it is that you're having a conflict about. And oftentimes you're having a conflict about your fear of either feeling rejected or abandoned. And you cannot tell your partner to stop having that fear, but rather you have to acknowledge what your fear is in that moment, and then you can work together as partners to give and support and to offer to one another that that deeper hope of, hey, I do accept you. Hey, like, I don't want to leave you abandoned. And that's where the practical nature of things comes in. So, like, okay, Jake, you're working a lot, and Shannon, you're doing a lot working. Um, what do we what do we do? Like, what practically would help remove the needle here? And that is unique to each um, you know, couple, but you have to recognize that this stuff matters. Your partner's fear is not silly and does not need to be explained away.
SPEAKER_02:Neither does your own fear. Right, neither does your we're just as critical of ourselves. And and I think honestly, even fear gets bigger in silence and in the dark. So I think talking about it is the thing where you start to earn security. Right. So you can't tell your partner not to have that fear, but we can start showing up for one another in such ways that those fears do get turned down over time.
SPEAKER_01:And that's how you become a messenger of hope for your partner, which is the very thing that we all hope for in our relationships, that we would feel safety, love, connected, and like we belong. Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.