Couples Counseling For Parents
Couples Counseling For Parents
Holiday Stress, Family Rules, and What to Do About Them
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Holiday plans rarely fall apart over turkey—they crack at the fault lines of family rules, nervous system triggers, and the pressure to keep traditions intact while raising small kids. We take you inside a relatable case with Hunter and Manu, whose baby’s bedtime collides with Grandma’s set-in-stone dinner time, and show how a small scheduling issue becomes painfully personal. Along the way, we unpack why these conversations feel “cellular,” how generational roles like don’t challenge the matriarch get carried into adult partnerships, and why safety can mean opposite things to two people who love each other.
We dig into the hidden drivers: the urge to protect beloved rituals, the fear of losing what felt like home, and the way partners polarize—one minimizing the hard, the other minimizing the good. You’ll hear a clear framework to calm the room before you fix the plan, plus a simple script to validate effort, name a concrete need, invite collaboration, and make a small ask without heat. We also talk about presenting as a team, giving elders the chance to surprise you, and building memories not just from events but from how you treat each other while planning them.
If you’ve ever argued about a start time and ended up questioning each other’s character, this conversation is your reset. Expect practical language you can borrow today, a reframe for navigating extended family with less rigidity and more curiosity, and a path to align on shared hopes even when answers are no. If this helped, follow the show, leave a quick rating, and share it with a friend who’s bracing for holiday negotiations—we’d love to hear the tradition you’d tweak first.
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Hello and welcome. This is Couples Counseling for Parents. A show about couple relationships, how they work, why they don't, what you can do to fix what's broken. Y'all parents. Our dad, Dr. Stephen Mitchell, and our mom, Ann Mitchell.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, and thanks for joining us today on Couples Counseling for Parents. I'm Dr. Stephen Mitchell.
SPEAKER_02:I'm Aaron Mitchell.
SPEAKER_01:And we are excited to be with you today. Um, so you know, it's that time of year. The holidays are coming, and with that comes a lot of excitement, a lot of good memories, a lot of chaos, and a lot of discussions between partners about family.
SPEAKER_02:Correct. Yes, it's a big topic. It's uh it is an exciting one, perhaps, but it is often a very stress-filled one.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and I think that, you know, not all couples have difficult relationships with extended family or have any kind of tension around these things. You know, a lot of but a lot of couples do um have difficult relationships with extended family, family, and it doesn't even have to be difficult relationships. It's just this time of year stirs up a lot of competing um desires, a lot of competing expectations, and so no matter what your relationship is as parenting partners with your extended family, like this is an important time. And the way we know it's important is because anytime there's conflict, the way we like to talk about it, that just is an indication that something is important, and so this feels important.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So I think that the I think we should jump into the case example, but I think that one of the primary reasons this is important is we all have a history of holidays. You and I, I mean, we've talked about this before. Our our histories are so different around this time of year. So it is important to us, but for very different reasons. Right.
SPEAKER_01:And we which we are going to get into.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, but I think it's also important to us for the same reason, which is we want something shared for our family, which is something we're also going to get into.
SPEAKER_01:So I love the forecasting. Yes, okay. That's what that's what you're doing. Uh, in terms of, you know, why does this matter? I uh, you know, we're gonna do a little um series uh in these next couple podcasts about holidays and some of the things that come up. But today is really what you're alluding to, Aaron. First of all, you have to understand why this matters? And I think when you go from that foundation, then you can think about all these other um more specific conversations that we're gonna address in the podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Only thing I want to say about that is I think we all assume we know why it matters. Right. And I think it surprises us. Right. I think it often surprises us.
SPEAKER_01:So, like when you even when you say why does it matter, I'm like, well, that's obvious, but it's there has to be we're talking about getting clarity about why it matters. So um, so let's take Hunter and Manu. Uh they have a four-year-old son, and they have just recently adopted a baby girl, Gabby, and she is two months old. And Manu's family lives um close to them, and typically um Manu and Hunter go to their parents' house for Thanksgiving. And this is um a year, you know, that's no different. But there is one hot button issue that Hunter and Manu are not seeing eye to eye on. This is goes like this. Hunter. Hey, Manu, your mom called today and said that everyone is coming over to the house at four for dinner on Thanksgiving Day. What do you want to do about that? Manu, what do you mean? What do I want to do about that? Hunter, well, we both know that Gabby goes down for the night at six, and your mom says come for dinner at four, but nothing will actually get started until five, and it just feels like a really tight window. And either we could see if the meal could get moved up a little, or maybe we have to leave your folks' house early and miss the dinner. Manu, well, maybe we could just see if Gabby will go down at my folks' house and we can make it work. Hunter, Manu, you know that that doesn't work. We have tried putting Gabby down at your parents and we have had zero success doing that. And then we both end up having a terrible night because Gabby is all out of sorts, and I really don't want to do that. Can't we just ask for the dinner to start an hour or two earlier or just go home and miss some of it? Manu, my mom is not going to move on the time. You know that, and she's going to be really upset if we leave early. Hunter, well, that's not our problem. We have a two-month old. If your mom can't make some adjustments for her two month-old granddaughter, I don't know what to say. Why are you so hesitant to go against what your mom wants? Manu. My mom can be a little intense, you know that. Hunter. Well, so what? She's not in charge of everyone's life. We can have a different opinion. Manu. Or maybe you can just back off for once and not always have to challenge what everyone says and pick a fight over the smallest things. Sometimes you need to just go with the flow and let things be. Hunter. Oh, so now this is my fault because I'm too much. Scene. Hunter, Manu, walk away upset. But in this, I think that this is a useful example of how something little around the little. Isn't that really little? Something little around the holidays becomes something big.
SPEAKER_02:Well, what it becomes is personal, right? So I think that are part of what it becomes. This is a little thing, or it should be a little thing, and it really can be a little thing, but it it doesn't feel little.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it just got personal, right? No, it's you, you. Hunter's like, Manu, you can't stand up, and you just always kind of wilt in front of your mom. Manu's looking at Hunter and saying, Well, you're just too much, which most likely, and because for case example's sake, these are like pain points for Hunter and Manu in general. Right. Like this feeling of being told, you know, for Hunter being told he's too much, and for Manu uh being told that he just wilts uh in front of other people.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Um too difficult, too particular. I think the too much is uh but also probably the wilts too. Like we all say these in our own ways, but a lot of us have versions of these. So yeah, they come up in these moments because they're a thing we know feels like the thing. Like, oh my gosh, why do you always have to do this?
SPEAKER_01:So I'm gonna throw out um four things that I think can help us understand why these kinds of conversations feel very important and become personal, particularly around the holidays. I I think it doesn't have to be the holidays always, but uh, you know, typically around the holidays they can maybe feel a little more intense.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and that's where we are. But wait, before you do that, I think it's a really good time to think and be a little bit reflective about yourself and your partner. So if you had to say which um in these stress points, which extreme you go to, do you feel like you're more hunter, you're more Manu? Like where where do you go? Um, and where do you feel like your partner goes?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and I would also like to know if you know And somewhere else, but like may maybe you have a third option or fourth option. But like what happens for y'all?
SPEAKER_01:But if you if if you notice Hunter and Manu, it's not like these are bad relationships with Manu's family. They live close to them, they go over to their house for the holidays. Like it and and I think sometimes I think it's important to note like these kinds of things come up, no, like even if you have good relationships with your extended family. So this is kind of like there's a spectrum of relationships that we all have with extended family. Um, and I think that what we're about to talk about applies to anywhere on that spectrum. Um, and so I'm gonna throw out just four, these aren't the only four reasons of why this stuff matters, but they're the four reasons that I'm gonna throw out and we're gonna talk about. So um tell me what you think about these. I'll go through them and then we can converse around them. And so this is why family is important, just in general. And I think family is important because family comes with deeply ingrained rules and roles, ways of engaging with emotion and conflict that are passed down throughout generations. So when partners begin to have conflict around family, oftentimes one of the things that they are feeling is happening is that their partner is challenging these rules and roles, these what we would call in a nerdy psychological way, these multi-generational patterns that are passed down, they can feel that these are being challenged and that can feel threatening, even if they don't love the rules and roles. It's just you are challenging something that is very deeply ingrained within me, and that can feel threatening.
SPEAKER_02:I like the word threatened there because I think what threatened makes me feel like it's activated like in a visual way is cellular. Because no one's trying to threaten. When you say, Aaron, why do we have to do that? I'm not like, oh, Steven is threatening me, but my nervous system says, Don't change what I know.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So one of the rules new. So for example, Manu's family has a rule that you don't challenge his mom. And that is something that is deeply ingrained in Manu's experience. But what is so interesting about families is if you were to do what they call like a family tree or a gram and look back at the patterns, you would most likely find that there is a pattern within Manu's family where the matriarch doesn't get challenged. Perhaps. And I'm just gonna say, yes, that that's what we're going with because oftentimes when you look at these rules and roles, they are things that are passed down. So for Manu, it's not only like in my family, like in my immediate family, we don't challenge the matriarch, but you know what? No one challenged my grandmother. No one challenged like this is something that is part of what family is. And so, and that's why like that cellular level, it kind of just gets soaked into the genetics of a family. And so for Hunter to be like, hey, maybe we should ask your mom to change the time from four to three or two feels so threatening because it threatens one of these rules and roles. So that's one of the reasons why I think that these um conflicts can happen. Another reason is family is a place where our internal sense of safety is established. And this internal sense of safety can be skewed, though. For example, um, and and when I say safety, I what I mean is where safety oftentimes within family is is this idea of how do I establish an internal sense of peace, of being okay, of not being dysregulated or having a sense of like intensity. And so for for example, Manu, let's say Manu's sense of safety is established by not causing waves with his family or with his mom. And so that's what I mean by your sense of safety can be skewed. So what feels safe is for him to kind of back off. And so he's wanting to maintain that feeling of being safe, but if you think about it from a relational standpoint, that's a bit rigid, right? My Manu's relationship with his mom might be a bit rigid. And so Hunter's saying, like, well, that doesn't feel good to me. I don't, I don't establish feeling safe by just backing off. Hunter has a, you know, kind of a sense of like, I like want to challenge that. I want to kind of press that um issue. And that begins to feel like it's threatening to Manu's sense of like, yeah, but we won't be okay if we do that.
SPEAKER_02:I love this one so much. Um, this sounds so much like you and me to me. And even the way you just described it, I have so many parts where I'm like, I don't think that's what Hunter is trying to say at all. Um, but I get that that's the feeling. So for me, I'm like, I don't feel like Hunter's saying, like, we got to challenge your mom. I think what Hunter's saying, which is what I have said a thousand times, like, but couldn't we ask? Yeah, like I don't think it's like, hey, you are juggling a thousand things. Like anytime someone invites you to a dinner with more than two people, right? Like they have they have thought things through. There is a reason the time was set, that the time was set, and it probably worked for the most people. And presumably Manu's mom thought this all through. Whatever. My point is simply that Hunter's like, could we ask? I'm not saying anything else. Um, but could we say, like, hey, how how complicated would it be to adjust this? Yep. Yep. How will we know if we don't ask?
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But what Manu is saying to your point is nope.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, I can't ask. That feels outside of what is comfortable and that could create familiar to me, yes.
SPEAKER_01:That could create frustration on the on someone else's, you know, on his mom's experience, whatever, whatever it might be.
SPEAKER_02:So then Hunter, what we hear over and over and over is, oh, so you want me and Gabby to be uncomfortable. You're willing for our four-year-old, our two-month-old, and me to be uncomfortable, probably for days, because sleepless nights don't just last that sleepless night.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:They have lasting impact. Oh, just so we don't upset. Maybe upset your mom. We don't even know. Like, what if your mom's actually a very flexible person? Whatever. Maybe she's not. Doesn't really matter. But the point is, oh, I see your priorities. Yes. And it's not me.
SPEAKER_01:And so I think that these first two that I mentioned are the cellular two that you were talking about. Right. These are things that kind of get ingrained into our bodies, into our minds, into our belief systems, into our spirit, spirits, into our nervous systems based on our experience. Right.
SPEAKER_02:You just do or you just don't.
SPEAKER_01:And you have to recognize that when you and your partner are talk talking about holidays and family and all of that, that you are talking about some of these cellular things. Right. And and that it it's really important to be aware of that because I think that that helps it not become personal. It helps it kind of you kind of the description that you just made about like, well, well, Manu's kind of seeing this from that skewed, like, you know, you're just wanting to create problems and challenge everything. Whereas Hunter's like, well, I'm just like, couldn't we ask? Yeah, couldn't we ask? Couldn't there be some flexibility there? Like, we have to know why we're not perceiving the conversation in that way and why our partner might be perceiving it differently as well.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Because what when you're when you're having a cellular conversation, you've moved outside of rational vogue ab, right? We aren't just talking about words, our bodies are communicating and there is a threat present. And that needs to be taken in a completely different way.
SPEAKER_01:And if you don't understand that in the conflict with your partner around the holidays, you will continue to have unresolved issues.
SPEAKER_02:You have to recognize so painful so fast because really Hunter is the problem, right? Like he's always just messing stuff up and asking for things like to be just for him and like, oh sure, Hunter, we'll just cater to you. No, right, no matter that this has been a five o'clock dinner for two decades.
SPEAKER_01:Manu is never standing up, Manu is always sacrificing, you know, Hunter and Gabby, you know, so that he doesn't upset people, like he's willing to not stand up for me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, spineless. And and look, that you just let your family run all over you.
SPEAKER_01:And that's not who either Manu or Hunter are, but that is how they walk away from this conversation. That's what they believe about one another. And so you and your partner have to recognize what is happening on a cellular level because that's what's making this important thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so that you can have a nervous system conversation and actually have some change and not end up in a stuck conversation really hurt.
SPEAKER_01:And we'll be right back. Do you want to reconnect, communicate better, and navigate parenting as true partners, not just roommates? Well, we offer private coaching for couples. Whether you're stuck in the same arguments, struggling to find time for each other, or just feeling off, we offer practical tools that actually work for real parents. We also provide individual coaching for parents who want to show up more intentionally in their relationships, break old patterns, or just feel more grounded in the middle of the chaos. What's one of the things that makes our work different? We coach couples as a couple. This allows couples to have more than one perspective on their concerns and meet with a couple that understands the reality of partnerhood in parenting. Whether you come as a couple or on your own, you don't have to do this alone. We're here to help. Head to our podcast description, our website, couplescounseling for parents.com, or our LinkedIn bio on Instagram, and click the free consult link to schedule your free consult and get started today. And now back to the show. And so th those are the cellular reasons. Now these other people how many more times can we give you to say cellular? It is really hard for me to say it. I'm really having to think through it.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's the problem.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, but it's it's just my lur the lural part, the my tongue, it's just confusing for me. Well, I'm enjoying it. Um, so two more reasons that are um different, I think, but maybe they're cellular as well, is family is also um the place of home where you have wonderful memories and rituals and relationships that we want to maintain, continue, and give to our growing family as parents. We want something really good. And at times, if our partner talks about changing anything or needing anything that does not go with quote unquote what the normal history of these good things was, we begin to get afraid, like, oh no, we're going to lose it. And so it goes back to that thing that you oftentimes talk about, Aaron, is hopes and fears. Right. You want like family can be such a good thing, and we want to give this good thing to our kids and to our partner that if there's any change to what it used to be or how it goes, well, we always go to dinner at four. Like, like, but that's you know, like even something as simple as that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because if you don't, then it you don't get out on time, and then it's still light on, or it's too dark, and then yeah, there's right.
SPEAKER_01:It just it just there's there can be fears that what the good thing that you want isn't going to happen. And so I think that that's really important, too, for partners to realize that sometimes these conflicts are because we want something so good.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And I think that this is one of those times too. I mean, I definitely think this is a cellular conversation. Fears and hopes are like as oh my goodness, part of our nervous system as anything, I think. Um, but I think too, a lot of times we are willing to over, especially personally, like our I am, I will just say me. So I am willing to overlook, or I find myself willing to overlook all of the many sort of negative attributes of my family and overemphasize the good. Yeah, it's difficult, and yeah, Gabby's gonna miss one night's sleep, but you're missing, and I I sort of underestimate the impact, right? Especially to someone who doesn't have the decades worth of the goodness. They don't have that. No, no, no, no. And so you start over-emphasizing and underemphasizing opposite things. I feel like, gosh, why do you always just point out all the terrible stuff? Yeah, there's terrible stuff, they're annoying that we they leave all the trash to the one person. That's a real story for my family. Um, or whatever. But uh, but you you totally miss all the goodness, and then as a result, I totally minimize all of the negatives. There are some really complicated, difficult stuff we should talk about, and I only focus on how wonderful the these you know few things are.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and so you're battling an extra polarization. That's exactly right. Yes. Uh like you said, overemphasizing and de-emphasizing, and that happens so much. And if you and your partner find yourself in that dynamic, you need to stop and recognize like, whoa, we are not actually having a conversation. We're we're just reacting to one another. What is the good thing here? What is the challenging thing? Let's talk about that and how can we like navigate it together rather than just jumping to these opposite ends of the spectrum.
SPEAKER_02:I am so much more willing to engage the difficulties of my family's negative attributes, which again, they're they are they're real. All of them would acknowledge it. Um, when I feel like you are willing to talk about there's such goodness, there's so many rich traditions. I'm like, okay, yeah, okay, we're having a balanced conversation. If you're gonna be balanced, I can be balanced. Right. But the opposite of that is true too. If I'm going to be balanced, you find yourself so much more willing to be balanced too. So someone has to be like, oh, wait, we're polarizing each other.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Uh and so I another um similar uh kind of factor, but but I I think there's a little bit of a nuance to it of why family can feel so important is you know what, as human beings, we want community. We want that feeling of home. We want a place where we feel warm, protected, welcome, and at peace. And we want this as adults and we want this for our kids. And this feeling is not only created by the actual events themselves, you know, the dinners, the birthdays, the holiday thing, the family tradition, the, you know, going to see the light, all of that stuff is important. But also, this feeling is created by how our relational interactions feel. And so when we express a need or are sharing an emotion with someone and they welcome it, invite understanding and make efforts to respond, that that creates this feeling of like, oh, okay, like this feels good. And oftentimes in these moments, these conversations, there is one partner who's seeking that out. So for example, Hunter is saying, like, hey, can't we just like talk about this and mention it to your mom and give them the chance to like respond? And that that's going to actually feel good and be good too. Not just the fact that we went over to your parents' house at four. That's great too, but there's there's a relational aspect to these interactions that I think is missed. And so I think what you're saying, Aaron, like in these moments, oftentimes partners are wanting their partner to support and acknowledge the need that they might have in the presence of their family, and and like have this experience of working together and collaborating together as a whole family unit. And many times one partner like Manu is saying, like, let's not do that, let's not do that, because we're not sure that will happen. I'm not sure how that will go. Let's just do the event and do the thing, and that's what's gonna create the memory. But that's not true. The the memory has to be connected to the relational depth as well. And I think that that is something that has to be recognized and realized by partners.
SPEAKER_02:I think the only thing I would add to that, which is maybe self-evident, but it doesn't have to end a particular way. Right. Mana's mom may very well say no.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but she might have a good reason and she might really be understanding of like, oh, I totally get why this is tough. Like, I hate that that this is the case. Like, um, yeah, I I totally get if you need to go early, like I'd be so disappointed, but I I absolutely understand.
SPEAKER_02:But the but the beauty of that, I mean, this is the conflict to connection equation, right? Is we feel understood, you feel understood. Because I think the other thing that comes up a lot is when the hunters and the Manus try to bring this to whoever the people are, in this case Manu's mom, it comes out hot. Yeah, it can come out really rigid because we're nervous about having this conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Well, because it's cellular cellular. Correct. It's nervous systems like engaging. Right. And when our nervous systems are engaged, you know, we escalate or shut down or do whatever, you know, we it comes out real rigid.
SPEAKER_02:It comes out like, hey, that time doesn't work for us. Uh whatever. You know, I'm I'm just saying that, but really what what makes it good between partners is the same thing that makes it good between extended family, which is understanding, compassion, curiosity, questioning. Hey, we get that this is a thing. We might not get how we want it, but we at least wanted to put it out there so we don't just assume we have to leave early. Like any chance this is a flexible conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Because it's just as negative for Hunter to be like, you know what, Manu, if that dinner's not at three o'clock, we're not going because we're like that, that isn't, you know, any better than what Hunter is saying, you know, my the way Manu's mom is putting it.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Rigidity matches rigidity often. So so too can curiosity, kindness, questioning, all of this. So my point is the way we approach this conversation with our partner should very much reflect in how we talk about this with the extended families. So everyone feels heard and understood and like they had a chance to to be heard and felt and seen and have that chance to extend that also.
SPEAKER_01:So here's what that conversation maybe could look like to begin that spirit that you're talking about. Um, I'll be Manu. Yes you be Hunter, okay. Right. Tracks, doesn't it? Uh huh. That tracks. Oh, in terms of yeah, that's right. We we kind of are those people, yeah. Um, so Manu says, hey, Hunter, that was too far. I should not have said you're too much. Really, I'm just intimidated to ask my mom to change the plans.
SPEAKER_02:Hunter says, Thank you for saying that. How come you feel intimidated to ask your mom to change the dinner time?
SPEAKER_01:Manu, you know how she can be sometimes. She likes things her way, and any change feels like too much for her, and then she gets upset and I feel bad for asking. It's a whole thing.
SPEAKER_02:Hunter, well, what if it's not that big of a deal? I mean, just moving the dinner to three instead of four would be a huge help to us. What what if we asked her together? Would that feel helpful?
SPEAKER_01:Manu, you're right. It's not that big of a change, and maybe if we do go together, she will be a little more open. She loves you, and I know she's smitten with Gabby. I mean, so we should at least give her the chance to surprise us and change the dinner time. And so just that is Manu and Hunter shifting out of these nervous system reactive places, um, and also recognizing what the ask is. Hunter gets that it's tough for Manu to um change that rule, to shift out of that role of just kind of you know, backing off. He he he gets that, but also Manu gets that this is something that Hunter's expressing that he needs. And there's a collaboration to say, like, okay, let's get out of these reactive places, let's try to be flexible and adaptable in how we think, and let's present ourselves together as a unit who's asking your mom for something. And let's also give her the benefit of the doubt. Your mom's not evil, your mom's not awful, your mom, although it might be difficult to be flexible, she can be, you know, like so. Let's present it to her in a way that is inviting and not threatening. Totally. And and I think that for you and your partner, as you enter this holiday season, you you really do need to ask yourselves, like, why does this matter? And why does it matter in that cellular sense for you? And what are you really like, what do you hope for? Like, what, like, what are you what do you want this time to be like? How do you think that your family contributes to that? And how can you and your partner, in a sense, get on the same page, which is which is I really think this we want a great experience for our family and for our kids, and to create memories. I think fundamentally, that's a lot of what parenting partners want for their kids. Absolutely. So you can maybe get agree on the hope. Yeah, and then it's like, okay, well, how do we want to get there? And let's not get into these reactive places. Let's know where they are. And then let's if we feel like somebody's overemphasizing or de-emphasizing, then we know that's the cue. Hey, we're in a place we don't want to be. How can we reshape and reframe this conversation? Today's show was produced by Aaron and Stephen Mitchell. If you're enjoying the podcast, please hit the follow button and leave us a rating. This helps our content become more visible to others who might enjoy it, and it lets us know how we can keep improving the show. And as always, we're grateful for you listening. Thanks so much for being with us here today on Couples Counseling for Parents. And remember, working on a healthy couple relationship is good parenting.