From Headshots To Hollywood with Kym Jackson

Continuing on with this year's them of 'The Business Side Of Acting', we chat with  Kym Jackson who shares her journey as an actor, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, mindset, and community in the acting industry. She discusses the business side of acting, the significance of networking, and the role of representation. Kym also provides insights into marketing oneself as an actor, the value of self-tapes and demo reels, and navigating the path to Hollywood. Her advice for aspiring actors includes finding a supportive community and maintaining physical health to enhance performance.

Takeaways

• Acting is a long game; success doesn't happen overnight.
• Building strong relationships is crucial in the acting industry.
• Networking is not just about getting jobs; it's about community.
• Manifesting success involves mindset and preparation.
• Community is one of the most valuable tools for an actor.
• Actors should be proactive in their career development.
• Self-tapes and demo reels are essential marketing tools.
• Physical health impacts performance and mindset.
• Finding a supportive community can help overcome challenges.
• Pathways to obtain the O1 visa to work in the U.S.

Follow Kym on Instagram and check out The Secret Actor Society. Use the code BLOOMER for a 50% discount to your first month/quarter/year plan.

Transcript

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David John Clark (00:00)
Welcome back to The Late Bloomer Actor podcast. And as always, I'm your host, David John Clark. And in this episode, we continue on this year's theme of the business side of acting and dive deep into that with the wonderful Kym Jackson.

Kym is a successful Australian actress, author of the Hollywood Survival Guide, the book for actors and the driving force behind The Secret Actor Society online. With credits in major films and TV shows like Snitch, Iron Sky, Criminal Minds and NCIS Los Angeles, she's built a career that spans continents, starting in Australia before making her mark in Hollywood. In this conversation, Kym breaks down what it really takes to succeed in the industry beyond just talent.

We talk about the mindset shifts actors need to make, the power of networking and relationships, and how to market yourself effectively with demo reels, self-tapes, and strong representation. She also shares her take on manifesting success, staying professional on set, and why community is one of the most valuable tools for an actor. And the community is interesting because that was such a big point that came up last year, especially in my final episode with the 12 Wonderful Podcast Hosts.

Community is such a big factor. If you've ever wondered how to navigate the industry, build a career step by step and approach Hollywood strategically, this episode is for you. Make sure you listen to the end for a special promotional offer to join the Secret Actor Society. So here we go. Let's get into it.

David John Clark (01:32)
Good morning, good morning everyone. You are back with the Late Bloomer Actor and we are here with Kym Jackson. Good morning Kym, how are you?

Kym Jackson (01:40)
Fabulous, how you doing?

David John Clark (01:42)
I am good as we were talking just off camera today. We're going for a hot day here in Adelaide today. That's 42 degrees, I think in Celsius. I always forget to convert it for the our American friends. I think it's over 104 degrees or something crazy like that.

Kym Jackson (01:57)
I'll try to avoid Googling it. I always need to know these things.

David John Clark (02:01)
I know,

I know. It's when you need a producer or someone in the background, a bit like Joe Rogan who has someone in the background can look things up on the internet for him. Kym, thank you very much for coming on the show. My theme this year is I'm focusing a bit more on the business side of acting and I feel, I may struggle to film my future episodes because personally I feel...

Kym Jackson (02:11)
That's true.

David John Clark (02:27)
Um, you are the encyclopedia for the business of acting. Uh, so, and I'm sure we'll get into that today a lot. So thank you very much. I must show to everyone that I do have the Kym Jackson Hollywood survival guide right here. Uh, for Actors, I believe there's two copies. There's one, uh, there's just a Hollywood survival guide and then you have, uh, the one for us Aussies. So for all our American viewers, is a, uh, and around the world, our Europeans, there are two versions of that. So.

Kym Jackson (02:31)
Yeah.

Yes!

David John Clark (02:58)
Wonderful book.

Kym Jackson (02:58)
Well, the Aussie print, the Aussie one actually is out of print. I'm not doing any more of those because the American version is is slightly newer. Even though they're pretty similar, I would recommend probably going for the international version, which looks a little more like a horror film screenplay.

David John Clark (03:17)
Wonderful, wonderful.

love it. So firstly, before we do go on, I wanted to say congratulations on two recent successes in your acting career. That being the wonderful role on We Bury the Dead as Lieutenant Wilkie. It's a Zach Hilditch directed film that I was very fortunate and excited to see at the Adelaide Film Festival last year. So that was wonderful. I did. I've seen it. You haven't seen it? Have you seen it? It is good. It is really good.

Kym Jackson (03:32)
Thanks.

You saw it!

So cool. I haven't seen it, how is it?

David John Clark (03:47)
The apocalyptic genre and the zombie genre is my favorite and I'm just dying to be in a movie just like that one day. Seeing it before it comes out in the cinemas was fantastic. And obviously with Daisy Ridley, who was just, that was a catch for them to get that, to get her.

Kym Jackson (04:01)
Ugh.

I got to tell you, man,

like she is such a pro. I watched her do a scene with Salme, and Salme was on camera. And it's not a scene where Salme really would need this for her performance, but Daisy was crying off camera for Salme's footage in every single take. And it's like, Salme is a soldier, like at a desk, like, you know, talking about, and it's like, what, like that.

David John Clark (04:21)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Kym Jackson (04:33)
There is almost no actor that would be doing that off camera. mean, most actors have trouble even trying to do it on camera. So what a pro.

David John Clark (04:41)
That is wonderful. I did a student film once with Eva Grzlak who's a good friend of mine and she was my very first guest on the show. And we had a scene that had crying in it and the cameras weren't rolling and she was crying and getting into the moment. And I thought she was having a breakdown. And I didn't know what to, are you okay? Okay. She says, no, just getting ready. And then I realised what was happening and then we went action and it worked. I just...

I was like a deer in the headlight. to go, what's going on? So that's wonderful. I did read something about you that I wanted to ask before we go on. Now, many people in the world say that actors aren't the smartest people, of which I disagree, of course, but you're a member of Mensa, which is another step up. How does this happen and what's that all mean and how does that work in with your acting career?

Kym Jackson (05:14)
So funny.

So I was staying at a mate's place and he had cancer at the time. I was just kind of there looking after him, crashing on the couch. But he was like, he was one of my best mates and all my, we're kind of dicks. Like we're really hard-headed people. My close friends, really push each other. And he was a, he had like a master's in, we were arguing chaos theory, right? And he, yeah, and he had a master's in like, I don't know, advanced mathematics or some shit. And he kept being like,

David John Clark (06:00)
like you do. What, Friday night?

Kym Jackson (06:08)
well, which one of us has a master's in blah, blah, whatever the hell it was. And I was like, and I realized I only went to high school and I actually got expelled and they had to, one of the board members had to like petition to get me to graduate. I got suspended for a time. I was so naughty. And so I don't have any qualifications. I didn't go to uni at all. And I got into like biotech, but I didn't do it because I wanted to pursue acting. And so I was like, I don't have any qualifications. Like I didn't have any like ground to stand on. And the funny thing is at his house as well,

he had walked past me one day and I was doing Sudoku and it was my first Sudoku I'd ever done. And I was just kind of doing it. And he's like, you do the Mensa Sudoku? And I kind of looked at it and I was like, I guess it is the Mensa Sudoku, but it was my first Sudoku. And I was like, oh, maybe I could get a qualification with these guys. And then people wouldn't think I wasn't smart because I didn't go to high school, I didn't go to uni. And so I went and did the Mensa test and I reckon the main reason I got in

was because at the front of the uni where they were doing the tests, they were giving away blueberry, like blueberry smoothies, like pure blueberry. And you know how blueberries make you smarter? So I think I got like supercharged on the way in. And the funny thing is I actually reached out to the guy doing the testing afterwards when I got in. And I was like, hey, like, are you sure like that this is right? That I actually got in? And he wrote back and he said, you know what? Men never send me this email, but women do it all the time.

David John Clark (07:33)
Wow.

Kym Jackson (07:33)
And I like

teared up. was just like, oh my gosh, like we really underestimate each other. We underestimate ourselves quite a bit for whatever reason. And you know, this was 20 years ago. So guess less so these days, but yeah, it was quite a funny thing. I've just like, oh, like, yeah, cool. Awesome. I actually got in for reals. So that's why I joined just so that I could stick it to my friend.

David John Clark (07:50)
I love it. I love it.

I love that, I love that. can't even, I hate doing the normal Sudoku. We'll leave that point there. So as I said, I'm focusing on the business side of acting. And this is a huge reason why I've asked you to come on the show as author of the Hollywood Survival Guide, which we've just talked about and I've shown on screen. You're also the host of the Secret Actor Society Online, where participants have access to such a myriad of resources that really is the epitome, the epitome,

Kym Jackson (08:00)
Yeah.

David John Clark (08:23)
of the theme of the business side of acting. With all this information, I really have no idea where to start, but can you give us an insight into what you provide as a working actor with your books and online presence and what led you down to this path of information sharing?

Kym Jackson (08:41)
Well, great question. I didn't have like a smooth sailing easy run of it all. Like I didn't happen to meet a big agent who believed in me and decided to back me when I was 20 or whatever. Like I grew up in Logan. I didn't really know anyone. I was really fortunate to do class when I was 18 with Tom McSweeney. And through that relationship, that working relationship, I ended up getting my first

David John Clark (09:03)
Nice.

Kym Jackson (09:08)
speaking role, which was like one line on Scooby Doo, which Tom was casting. And, you know, I moved to Sydney, I didn't know anyone and I had a lot of trouble getting into the industry there. And then I went to the Cannes Film Festival, met these two filmmakers, this crazy billionaire and a wonderful woman who was, her films were being financed by him. And,

And the wonderful woman is still one of my best friends to this day. Him not so much, but they hired me to come out to America as a PA. And through like a series of events, basically they were like, yeah, yeah, we'd love to work with you. And then when I went to call, I didn't get her info, when I went to call him, I couldn't get in touch with him because he owned a bank and I couldn't get past his receptionist. So I had to call, like eventually after a few tries, I called back and pretended to be a distributor wanting to release his film.

David John Clark (10:05)
Love it.

Kym Jackson (10:05)
And

He gets on the phone, he's like, Jackie, hi. And I'm like, actually, it's Kym Jackson, the actress you met in Cannes, and I want to come work for you. Like we talked about. So I went out and worked for him for six months. That went downhill fast because I don't, I'm not good with, with people who have strong personalities that don't make any sense. Then I lived in a storage room for three months. And then

I eventually got an apartment and a roommate and a visa, a green card and all that stuff. And it was really hard. Like it took me a long time because I was always starting from scratch. And whenever I'd ask any of my friends who are actors, like, what do you do to get acting work? A lot of them would say, my, know, I just do auditions when my agent sends them to me. And, you know, I didn't have an agent. I didn't know anyone. And I was really lucky. I walked past this group of actors rehearsing in a hallway on the way to a student film audition.

And the woman who I ran into the woman who ran it, I was like, is this a class? And she's like, no, no, it's a casting workshop. And so through her, she's like, come audition after, after your audition, come down and audition for us, I run it. So I auditioned and then she told me the price. I said, I can't really afford it. And she said, look, I think you'll elevate the class. She's like, you can work at the front desk and do the classes for free. And I was like, oh, cool. And so it was just like this series of events, but then through those workshops was where I started getting work

David John Clark (11:19)
Wow.

Kym Jackson (11:26)
and then eventually getting representation. And I saw the sideways ways that you get the work. For instance, even that Daisy Ridley film, I called the casting director myself after I saw it on casting networks. My agent absolutely pitched me for it. And I called the Perth casting director, Megan, who's amazing. And that was sort of, even today, like,

David John Clark (11:33)
Hmm.

Kym Jackson (11:52)
I have an amazing agent, amazing manager. And even today I do with the, especially with indie stuff, it's hard to get TV stuff for yourself, but with indie films, I definitely proactively work to kind of get, still keep getting my own work. And I think that's important for actors kind of at every level.

David John Clark (12:11)
That's interesting because we talk a lot about, I talk about sliding doors and how doors present themselves and you've had doors obviously just in that story there that have opened and made your path go down a certain path. So how has that led you into your second side of things? Obviously as a full-time working actor, you run the Secret Actor Society. So what made you decide to give back to the industry, so to speak?

Kym Jackson (12:39)
Yeah, that was actually your question that I totally didn't answer in my last answer. Oh my God.

David John Clark (12:41)
No, this is what we love about interviews. As I

get better and better as an interviewer, as a podcast host, you start to hear all the things that people talk about when they're radio hosts and stuff. But it's fantastic because I write down a bunch of questions that I'm going to ask. When I first started out, I would literally end up asking every question. But now I very rarely refer to my notes because we get...

Kym Jackson (12:55)
Oh my gosh.

Get

chatty.

David John Clark (13:09)
chatty and I listen to which is a big tool that actors need to learn that listening. So anyway, yes, Secret Actor Society.

Kym Jackson (13:11)
Yeah. Ooh, well done.

So yeah, look, within all that time, I was working with their production company. I also ended up meeting a guy at a restaurant who hired me as a post-production purchasing coordinator for two years in Hollywood. And so in working in post-production and production, and I ended up meeting a group of filmmakers at an audition where I went in and wrote a screenplay for them and I started writing scripts. And so I'm exposed to the production side of things and I'm starting to see from a producing, not that I was producing in itself, but I was working on the production side a lot.

I was starting to see things that actors didn't know. And what's, what started happening over time was the Aussie community. Anytime I was going for a hike, everyone hikes in LA, and I was going for a hike with a mate and they asked me questions. I would have sort of information and they'd all be like, you should write a book. And then people just started referring people. And I would be getting like, you know, 10 emails a month from people saying, Hey,

you know, blah, blah, blah, sent me, you know, I'd love to pick your brains, take you to coffee, pick your brains. Eventually I started saying, well, you can take me to lunch if you want to pick my brain. And so I started doing all these coffees and lunches and hikes and I'm explaining and I found I was repeating myself. So eventually I just started copying and pasting the same, know, like if they asked me a question, I'd be like, well, just email me questions and I'll answer them in writing and then we can hang out.

David John Clark (14:20)
you

You had it.

Kym Jackson (14:38)
And so I eventually kind of just started sort of building up these emails of like, well, here's everyone else's questions and then here's the answer to your questions. And I copy paste it. then eventually everyone just kept saying, someone should write a book about all this. You should write a book. I eventually did, I wrote the book and then in publishing the book, I, I published the book, I released it. And then I was finally at 29, I was finally able to focus on my career. And of course I rewrote the book. So that took another year and a half.

And then at 31, I was finally able to focus on my career. And so I finally went out and actually proactively got an agent. But I did that because I went to this career coaching program called, Career Activate and they kind of kicked me in the bum. It's a very top tier price program, but they did kind of kick my coach, Ben Whitehair, who runs working.actor, is kind of like Secret Act Society is really good as well. He's the vice president of SAG, who was the vice president of SAG during the strikes.

He was my coach and he convinced me to, you know, utilize some of the resources I already had available to me. And I realized you can have all this knowledge, but if you don't have someone kind of there saying, no, try this or give this a go, the knowledge is great. And it's important as a foundation. And it is also important to have a community to have, to have peers and to have people who can kind of champion you and people who can get on the zoom. And this is what we do. We do twice a month. We get on the zooms. We did one two days ago.

David John Clark (15:52)
Mm.

Kym Jackson (16:01)
We get on the Zooms and we're just like, I did this and it worked. And then someone else is like, well, I did that and you know, it didn't work for me, well, maybe try it this way. And so we're all kind of just like working through things together in our careers. And of course, I'm hosting the Zoom or my one of my actually one of my ex coaching clients, I went through a phase of doing career coaching one on one. One of my ex career coaching clients, Tudy runs some of the Zooms as well, because she's got a massive resume now, which is rad.

So she hosts some of them, but I host a lot of them. And we all just kind of work out the kinks together. So the Secret Actor Society is essentially what I used to teach in these acting coaching calls or coaching meetings. But people were paying like 200 bucks an hour to meet with me. And I didn't like that they had to pay that much. I was like, I'm just saying the same thing I said to the last person. So why don't I just put all of that in videos and I can make it super cheap. People can get all the knowledge. They've got the book.

David John Clark (16:48)
Mmm.

Kym Jackson (16:58)
for how it works. They've got the classes for, well, the book is more like information. The classes are more like information and strategy and how to apply it and how it's worked in the past. And then the coaching community is like support and camaraderie and someone going like, just try it, give it a go, who cares? You know, like that whole thing of like, you know, if you're gonna get a hundred,

David John Clark (17:20)
Mm.

Kym Jackson (17:26)
99 no's before you get a yes, then who cares about the no's? Just keep going and get them until you get the yes. And it's in every different area, know, pitching yourself, getting rep, whatever it is. And then it's also just about honing things. You know, often you need a second set of eyes on things like headshots and demo reels and stuff like that. So yeah, that's why.

David John Clark (17:44)
And that's a big thing with it. Community is a big thing.

Last year I had, I interviewed 12 of my favourite podcast hosts, both from acting podcasts, but also outliers. Cause I listen to how to make a podcast. I listen to some of them and even they came through community was such a big thing. As acting can be such a lonely journey, can't it? And like you said, you get so many no's and I always talk about the troughs that we get.

Kym Jackson (18:09)
Yeah.

David John Clark (18:14)
Those down moments you get where you go, why am I doing this? Why am I bothering? I'm clearly not making it. So have to have a community like the Secret Actor Society to just on that community aspect alone is worth your involvement, isn't it?

Kym Jackson (18:30)
Well, you need someone to compete with the voice in your head. So we've all got the voices in our heads and, you know, it's important on a, you know, on a minute to minute basis to sort of say to that voice, well, thank you for your opinion. But actually I am good. Or actually I am going to go do this. Actually I have seen it work, but it helps when you've got proof. So if you're looking, you know, if you've convinced yourself that it won't work, you're going to find proof of that. It's your reticular activating system, right? Tony Robbins talks about it all the time.

David John Clark (18:33)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Kym Jackson (19:00)
So if you're looking for proof that something isn't, that's what you'll find. And if you're looking for proof that something is, then that's what you'll find. And if you're in a community where people are saying, no, it is that way, you can do this, it is possible, then you're gonna find more proof of that. And that's gonna be the information that your reticular activating system actually catches onto and sees and finds more of rather than your mates in class going, oooh, everything's terrible or you can't do that.

Oh, you can't send that email. No, no, no, just wait for a referral. You can't just reach out to agents on your own. Like, you know, all the bullshit. Obviously, yeah, it's better to have a referral. But if you don't have a referral, you don't just sit around going, oh, woe is me, I don't have a referral.

David John Clark (19:38)
It's plenty of that.

I like that. And I guess it's that fine line between working for yourself and reaching out to people and then being a stalker. So to speak.

Kym Jackson (19:53)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's, it's,

you know, it's social skills. And that's a lot. That's something we talk about a lot is people get worried because they do start doing things and then going, I've reached out too much.

So it's, it's social skills and just going, well, how often would you want to hear from a complete stranger? Like, and so if you want to build a relationship with someone, you know, every six months is a great interval to reach out. And only when you have something interesting to say, Hey, you know, I just booked this or you can see me in this play or whatever. I've got, there's plenty of people that I haven't reached out to in years that I still feel connected to. And I still get auditions from it's not like you

David John Clark (20:07)
Yes.

Kym Jackson (20:27)
vanish from existence when you haven't reached out to someone recently. But it is good to stay in touch, you know, at least once a year.

David John Clark (20:32)
Definitely,

definitely. And then you focus a lot on the Hollywood Survival Guide, the practical advice for actors navigating the industry. And obviously that would be one learning outcome is the social aspects of it.

What are the biggest mindset shifts that an aspiring actor needs to become a working actor? Because we all start out in this journey and some people have visions of, you know, making it to Hollywood or I'm just doing this as a hobby. But at some point you make that decision where you want to make this work. So how do we, how do we make that move into becoming a working actor and, and bringing it into the side of the business side of acting, which is a lot of people don't understand and know,

which is where your expertise is and what you focus on a lot, isn't it?

Kym Jackson (21:15)
Absolutely. The short answer is you'd watch our journey series, which is 25 hours of class content, which takes you step by step through every stage of becoming a working actor. It starts with how Hollywood works and then marketing materials. There's a whole two hour class just on demo reels. Then there's actually a two hour class on what you just said, the mindset shifts that's removing your subconscious blocks, removing the subconscious blocks, holding you back.

David John Clark (21:24)
Beautiful.

Kym Jackson (21:40)
think that one's free for everyone actually, because I like made a deal with myself that I would never charge for it. If you guys go to secretactor.com and click on level three, that should be available for anyone. You shouldn't need a membership to watch that actually. It's a two hour class. If it's not email, like send me an email, kjackson@secretactorssociety.com and I'll make it free. But then it goes through like...

David John Clark (21:42)
not.

Nice.

Kym Jackson (22:04)
how to get an agent and manager, how to be a great client for your agent and manager. I'll be teaching next month at MEAA and that'll be up. Then how to network, working on set. Like these are all big two hour classes, press and publicity, and then creating your own content and then moving to a major market and how to get an O1 visa. So that's about 25 hours of content there that will just guide you through the whole process with strategies, with how to implement it, with links, with...

you know, equipment lists for yourself, take set up all that stuff. We also have like the 3000 other videos, but the answer to your question, the mindset shift, the mindset shift that actors need to have is to stick with that naivety of youth. So I remember being 18 and my friend was like 23 and he got into VCA and I was like, oh, he's so old. Like, why is he even bothering? Like that childhood stupidity that we have of like, what a dumb thought to have, but like,

David John Clark (22:52)
You

Kym Jackson (23:01)
in my mind, I was just like, well, you know, I'm going to be famous next year. So, so the more you can stay in touch with that, I think, honestly, and also go, well, well, of course, I'm going to be famous. Of course, I'm going to have a successful career as an actor and then gather proof of that. So like one of the first action steps we do in our success path is to do a dream board or a vision board.

And that vision board shouldn't be, want to be a famous actor. It should be, I am a famous actor. It is the vibe that you should, know, any of your manifestations should be present tense as opposed to I want, because you'll manifest more of I want this thing, of wanting the thing rather than more of having the thing if you're manifesting and we're always manifesting, right? So putting together, okay, well, if I'm so worried about my look or my age or my this or my that, well then,

David John Clark (23:41)
Okay.

Kym Jackson (23:55)
Okay, how many of the actors on TV are actually 21 year old hotties? And how many of them are actually human beings? Because when you watch a TV series or you watch a feature film, you might see, yeah, maybe, you know, 50 % of the leads are the young 20 something whatevers. But the majority of the characters in any project are all sizes, all all ethnicities, all ages. There's

the parents, the lawyers, the friends, the people at the store, every supporting role in any project is usually going to be an interesting face and a person of any age who could literally have no resume and we wouldn't know because once they attach a name to a project, once they attach the couple of names and obviously they want to have people with experience, because experience usually means they're better is fundamentally what it is. The more experience you have, the more you get better.

David John Clark (24:45)
Of course.

Mm.

Kym Jackson (24:51)
So yes, people with a bit of a bigger resume are more likely to get those bigger roles. I can't, you know, someone could hire me. I've done 80 films and TV series. You can't sell a film because I'm attached to it. So then why are they hiring me? They're hiring me. Yeah, maybe my resume helps, but that's not selling the film. No one cares. They're hiring me because I've got the experience and I'm hopefully by now relatively okay at the job. And so then...

David John Clark (25:12)
Make the roll work.

Kym Jackson (25:18)
You could just as easily book, you and I would go up for exactly the same roles. Or someone who had no credits could be going for the same role as you and me as a lawyer or as a parent or as a teacher or as a whatever. And they're just as likely to book the role if they do a better audition than you or me. So just to not get too hung up mindset wise on your credits and know that everything is your craft. Like what we teach, what we teach should be

20 % of what you focus on. The business of acting should not be someone's primary focus. The reason we teach it is so that people can go, okay, great, that's how you do that, that's how you do that. Okay, good, I'll go back to class and I'll keep working on getting my 10,000 hours up as an actor acting, not as a person pursuing acting, as a craftsman doing great work. So that's that.

David John Clark (26:06)
Okay.

I love that. So,

So we need, we, we keep that focus of what brought us to the industry, our love for acting, our love for being on set and, and, and doing the role, so to speak, and the business side of,

Kym Jackson (26:21)
Yeah, doing plays, doing indies, doing shorts, doing

unpaid stuff, like whatever, whatever. As long as it's something that's fun for you, something you want to do, don't just do a crap. Can I swear? I love that I downgraded shit to crap thinking that that wasn't a swear word. No, don't do a crappy film because you are terrified that you're not going to like, I need the job or I need the credit.

David John Clark (26:32)
Of course you can.

Kym Jackson (26:46)
No, like don't do junk. I mean, do everything, but do everything that doesn't suck. If the script, if you're reading the script going, this is awful. Like, nah, maybe do the audition for the experience of it, but don't do the job. Like gross.

David John Clark (26:51)
Works for you.

Awesome.

Fair enough. And you were talking a lot there about agents, which is one focus I really want because there's so many things we can talk about. So we'll prioritise what we need to. How important is having an agent in progressing your career into that working actor status?

Kym Jackson (27:18)
Well, if you think of the industry in two different kind of bubbles, there's the indie bubble and then there's the network and studio bubble. So the indie bubble, there's a lot you can do in the lower budget indies without an agent in people posting stuff on Casting Networks. And I mean, I booked a film called Hindi Vindi that's coming out at the end of the month through a self-submission on Star Now. Now that stars Neena Gupta, who's arguably one of the most famous people in India, Guy Sebastian.

David John Clark (27:45)
Nice,

well.

Kym Jackson (27:46)
Some amazing and this amazing kid, what is his name? I don't remember his last name, but that was from a Star Now submission. And like, it's so you can do stuff, you can get stuff. And that was paying, was paying, it actually paid quite well, for an Aussie indie. You can get stuff like that on your star nows, your backstage, your, casting networks, all of those ones. However,

David John Clark (27:54)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Kym Jackson (28:12)
you're not, or even through knowing the casting director. However, for the big stuff, really the casting directors through Showcast are going to release or in the States, Breakdown. They're going to the release most high level roles only to agents. So you literally will not be able to see that the role exists and you will not be able to pitch yourself without a decent agent. And in Australia, there's actually a separation between the top agents

and the agents that don't have access where the casting directors will often, and this is just rumored to be the case, but it is a very strong rumor that has come from an internal source. The casting directors, some of them, limit the agencies that a project is actually released to. So even if you're in one of the 100 Australian agencies, maybe only the top 20 to 30,

maybe 30 are actually getting some of those big juicy breakdowns for film and TV. The rest are gonna mostly have access to kind of, you know, well, the stuff that's released to them, which often excludes the bigger projects. So especially in Australia, it's very important. But in the States as well, no one's casting a TV show going, I should put this out on Actors Access and get 30,000 submissions. Like it's not, no one's doing that. The

David John Clark (29:34)
They don't need to.

Kym Jackson (29:37)
casting directors, they're casting a guest star role, they may be bringing in 20 people if you're lucky, and they don't want actors, they're not going to want actors submitting directly. But when you hear a mate's got an audition and you email casting and you know the casting director, oftentimes that can turn into an audition, absolutely. They're so overwhelmed these days with submissions. The quantity of what they're picking through, you have to have those relationships with casting directors.

David John Clark (29:48)
Fair enough.

Yes.

Kym Jackson (30:04)
And you have to have an agent who has those relationships with casting directors to get the big juicy stuff, yes.

David John Clark (30:11)
What are Your thoughts on getting an agent, whether we have one local in your region or do you need one in the Eastern States, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane now being big? I've recently changed over. I've managed to get an agent in Sydney, which is wonderful because I...

Kym Jackson (30:26)
Congratulations.

David John Clark (30:30)
because in my career, I had to make that move from a local agent here in Adelaide, South Australia, and it was nothing against my agent, so wonderful, but it was my progression in my career to reach out. So do you think that's the right approach to start in your local region and then move across to the Eastern States, or should we be focusing on that from day one?

Kym Jackson (30:50)
Look, I think it's important to build up a resume in any way that you can. So I wouldn't hold off on getting local representation because you're thinking I want to kind of keep myself available for Sydney rep. I would be getting local rep and then, you know, I would, yeah, I would be getting local rep and then reaching out to Sydney rep when you've

got a little bit of a resume, unless you're fresh out of school. Look, it just gets very different depending if you're fresh out of school, go for Sydney or Melbourne rep, preferably Sydney rep, think, you know, straight away. But if you're, you know, over 25 and you're not fresh out of school and you've been around the traps for a little bit, definitely you want to have some sort of local rep in your area. And then when the time comes and you feel like you have enough credits,

to sort of move over, then definitely go for Sydney rep. But there's no reason you couldn't just go for Sydney rep and then go, that didn't work out. Okay, I'll go back to local rep. I think that would be the better angle because then at least you've given it a shot and then you have a solid answer. You're not sitting there going, what should I have done that instead? Like go for the big fish and then, and then if not have a snack.

David John Clark (31:54)
Fair enough.

Mmm.

And then when you come back, they may remember you. Jesus, his career has improved remarkably over the years that he last applied for us. And away you go.

Kym Jackson (32:15)
Yeah. So one

thing, one thing I would recommend doing, and I wish I'd done this more, I actually funnily enough, inadvertently did it with my current agent, Sophie Jermyn who's like the queen of the world. And I'll be with her till I'm a hundred, if she'll keep me, I would have reached out to agents and then just, you know, knowing that I maybe wasn't ready to be with them. And then I would just send them an update every time something, every time something rad happened, you know, Hey, it's still love, love, you know,

Either love to work with you or hey, just wanted to update you. I'd love to work with you one day in the future. So it's not like you're trying to leave your current rep. You know, just wanted to update you. I have a film coming out. Maybe don't even say I'd love to work with you one day. Maybe it's just, I wanted to update you. I have a film coming out. You can see it on Apple TV or it's, you know, it's available on Amazon or whatever. Or I've got a play coming out, coming up at the whatever theater. Love to comp you some tickets.

If you're ever inviting casting to a play, make sure you're willing to comp them tickets. But no one will show up. Well, just like they might refuse the free tickets, but it's a polite thing to do. And out of every 20 invitations, you may be going to get one person who says, yes. So it's no big financial risk anyway. It's just the courtesy of the invitation. And hey, if your worst problem is that 20 of them say yes, then you can ask a mate or some parents for some. Put it on your credit card. Beg the theater. Whatever. Whatever you need to do.

David John Clark (33:06)
us.

Don't ask them to come and then pay!

Fair enough.

Kym Jackson (33:36)
But yeah, and then I would just stay in touch with them over time and just build a long term awareness of your existence, which is what happened with Sophie.

David John Clark (33:36)
I love it.

You talked a lot about there as we segue away from agents, but you were talking about marketing a lot. So the Secret Actors Society courses, you emphasise marketing materials. So what are the key elements of an actor's marketing package and what makes you stand out so that we can get those connections and we can get that first professional role, which is what so many of us are seeking? Because it's like the chicken or the egg, you know, you're...

Kym Jackson (33:55)
Hmm.

David John Clark (34:11)
You need that CV, but you can't build your CV without a good credit. It's what comes first.

Kym Jackson (34:18)
It's a really good question. it's actually the reason we started and we literally haven't started. We're starting in March doing, but we did our first one last year as a bit of a test, casting director Q&A's, where you get to go in and I actually only, I didn't even think of it as Sam Christensen is an amazing branding workshop in the States. It's quite, it's a bit on the pricey side, but it's so worth it.

They, for all their alumni, they bring in a casting director or an industry professional every few months and you do a Q &A. And I went to one of them as an actor, as a guest, and it was amazing. I felt like I really connected with the casting person, even though there were 50 people in the Zoom. So we've started doing these things where you kind of come in and every month we bring in a casting director and they chat with the gold level members at Secret Access Society. You just kind of build the relationship.

So my answer to the getting to know people thing is you have to just meet them. Like, you have to, film festival, casting, I love casting workshops. I did over 200 of them. I loved them. Tafta runs the national actor intensive in each city every year. It's a bit on the pricey side, but I think it's very much worth it. As long as your craft is good, tell people don't go there before they're ready.

David John Clark (35:19)
I've done Wow

Kym Jackson (35:33)
I think Dave Newman sometimes does casting workshops where he might run them independently. I would do a Google alert for all the different, there's only 20 Aussie casting directors. We've got a list of them on the Secret Actors Society site. There's not that many at all. I would do a Google alert for every casting director's name and see when they pop up as doing a workshop at a local acting school. I know Heesom sometimes does them down where you guys are. I think they run their own actually. I would do theirs.

David John Clark (35:54)
Yes. Yep.

I've done a few.

They're beautiful.

Kym Jackson (36:00)
Absolutely. They brought

me in for Mortal Kombat. Like they do some good stuff. I would get to know the casting directors one-on-one as much as you can. Now, as far as marketing materials go, because it's relationship over time. People are to be more likely to want to meet, to want bring in someone that they know, no matter how they know them. When you're looking at 200 or 300 or a thousand submissions and you're seeing all these anonymous faces, the ones who you know,

of course you're going to be more likely to bring them in. We're tribal creatures. Of course we trust someone we know more than we trust a stranger. And that's less so in Australia than in America. Aussies are like, everyone's just a friend you haven't met yet. But it still works that way in our kind of, know, from back in the very, very old days, we're meant to be in tribes and we want to bring in people from the tribe. So the fundamentals are headshot. Now, if you are with a top agency,

David John Clark (36:28)
Yes.

Love it.

Kym Jackson (36:55)
and they can get you in every room. All you need is a main theatrical shot, preferably not with a big grin, just like a face. Because actually I went to a panel a couple of days ago at the AACTA's with Nikki Barrett mentioned that when you're smiling, you can't see the person as much. You can't see the personality as much when someone's got a big smile on their face.

David John Clark (37:17)
Is it the,

they call it the Mona Lisa smile? That's slight, that's what you want. You're slight hinted that you're about to smile or you did smile. I think that's what I, how I was explained to me. Hmm. No.

Kym Jackson (37:20)
yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah.

like that. I've never heard that before.

If you're with a bigger agency, I would just have a simple headshot in a plain shirt and no big deal. If you're with a smaller agency and you're going for a lot of commercials and you're just starting out and you don't have a resume, I would do character shots. And this is more in America, we call it going for co-star roles, I would have something corporate, I would have something low income, I would have something fancy, I would have something generic,

and something blue collar. And then you sort of just covered five looks. In each one have your character, so know who you are.

David John Clark (38:04)
And not AI

generated ones. That's the big thing about it. I see the ads a lot now where you just get your photo and then they, and the AI takes over and makes you a police officer and a cowboy and a doctor from that one photo. No.

Kym Jackson (38:07)
Yeah, for sure.

That's so funny.

That's so funny. But you know what's

going to stuff you in that is you want the cowboy to be looking out at his cattle in the photo, you know, and the camera might be where he's looking, but he's looking, he's, he's just done a hard, hard day's work on the farm or on the ranch. And he's just like, he's sitting down. He's just gone. Yep. All right. I think we're ready for that storm. That's coming in. You want that cowboy to be in a moment so that you feel that in him.

David John Clark (38:27)
Hmm.

Nice.

Kym Jackson (38:46)
You know what I mean? And that's how good headshots, that's how great headshots are taken. You're in a character that goes with the look. You're not smiling in a lawyer suit unless you want to be the pro bono friendly lawyer or whatever. You know what I mean? You want to tailor stuff so that it's specific. Actors only have three marketing materials. Headshot, footage, and I say footage because now it's obviously individual clips as well as demo reels. So headshot, you want to shot.

David John Clark (38:58)
Yes.

Kym Jackson (39:13)
It's essentially show them your face, show them if you can act, how you can act and what your essence is and show them what you've done, which is your resume. And that's it. That's all we have as marketing materials. Website, take it or leave it. If someone has the energy to do a website, good for them. I don't have one. If you go to kymjackson.com it redirects you to my IMDB. I would probably rather send people to your Showcast page or to your Breakdown link if you're in America,

David John Clark (39:38)
Fair enough.

Kym Jackson (39:39)
or your Actors Access link. If you're in America, you can do a custom link and then you can share that link in Actors Access. I don't think Actors need websites, but if you have the energy and you feel like doing one, go for it. Just make it simple. Do not give people too much to choose from. Get rid of old stuff. Like when someone goes to your website, if you could only show them one video, that should be what shows first front and center prominent. If you can only show them one photo, never have two photos from the same look.

David John Clark (39:48)
You want to?

Kym Jackson (40:06)
If you can only show them one photo of you, put that first and then put your other character photos below it. Guide people to see what you want them to see. The number of times an actor will send me the website and I'll be like, yeah, so I watched that clip and they'll be like, you watched that one? Oh yeah, that one wasn't so good. I'm like, well take it off your fucking website. What's it doing? Don't show, I don't care how much stuff you've done. I care if you can act or not. If I'm a casting director, I care if you can act.

David John Clark (40:26)
Take it off.

Kym Jackson (40:36)
Can you act? Are you right for the role? Like as in, do you look right for the role? Do you have the essence that matches for the role? You may look wrong for the role, but your essence might be so perfect that I want to cast you anyway, if I'm a casting director. And are you cool? Like, are you psycho or are you rowdy? You're going be someone I can work with. Do you have a bad reputation or a good one? And that actually gets a lot of actors, especially celebrities, excluded from projects. Because we all talk all the...

All the filmmakers talk to each other. Not that I'm, you know, I've made one feature film, but we still all talk and we're all like, how was it working with Bla? And they'll be like, nah, nah, nah. And that's how people end up not getting more work because they're a dickhead on set. So be courteous, be kind, you know, don't try to do other people's jobs. If you see the DP and the director having a conversation about lighting, don't jump in with your opinion. Because if the, I'll tell you right now, if the gaffer jumped in telling you performance tips, you'd be pretty peeved off, wouldn't you? Like, and so it's, it's a cult, it's a

David John Clark (41:10)
Yeah.

Wow.

Yes, yeah.

Kym Jackson (41:32)
three marketing materials, headshot footage, your demo should not, unless you have a ton of network and studio credits, your demo should not be more than two minutes long ever. And if it gets to more than two minutes with low budget footage, first of all, delete the junk and replace it with good stuff, but just divide it into comedy and drama. Don't sit there with a three minute reel. I've got a three and a half minute reel and it's embarrassing. I don't know.

David John Clark (41:50)
Yes.

Nice.

Hahaha!

Kym Jackson (42:02)
But it's full of network stuff and celebrities and stuff.

David John Clark (42:06)
So that's a segue quickly into self tapes and your demo reels. Where are we today in your opinion for those materials? People now talk about demo reels, show reels, speed reels. What do we need and what do we make up of it? You were saying before that if you've got footage from actual shows, you have them, keep it under the three minutes. But is the self tapes suitable?

Kym Jackson (42:35)
Oh my God, they're

so suitable. Okay. So my favorite, my favorite class that I have ever taught is my demo reel class. So if anyone does do the free trial, it's a seven day free trial on Secret Actor Society. Make sure you watch that one. Cause it is by far like, I'm like, Oh my God, I was on fire that day. Like I'm so proud of it. It goes through everything about demo reels and footage, but

David John Clark (42:37)
Beautiful.

Number one.

Love it.

Kym Jackson (42:58)
one of the main things that it has is a section on building a demo reel out of self-tape footage. Now, I think that one thing that I see actors do a lot, especially new actors, the worst acting that I see isn't because they're necessarily a bad actor. It's because they don't know the bloody scene. Like they might know the words, but there's words between the words. There's action, you know, there's thoughts between the words, there's actions, there's the silent responses, the nuance, the micro expressions.

And if you just know the words, it's not enough. And that's what actors don't realize. So what I always recommend, if someone's doing a self-tape reel and they're doing self-tapes for the sake of a reel, film the self-tape, you know, learn it, film it with a friend. Look at those takes, judge yourself as harshly as you can. If you think you suck, you probably fucking do. Like in that tape, that doesn't mean you're not gonna get better. It means that take or that series of tapes suck.

So then you go and you go to a coach. Once you've got it to the point where you can self tape it, you got it to a point where you can get it as far as you can get it with a mate, then you go coach on it. And then you go work through it, really work through it, get it to another level. And then you self tape it again, preferably with a coach. And you'll see it'll be like night and day, just through the repetition. Like every time I do a scene, I'm reading it at least a hundred times, at least a hundred times.

David John Clark (44:10)
Hmm.

Nice, wow.

Kym Jackson (44:19)
I think actors who are new dramatically, and I will tell you right now, I suck if I'm trying to do a scene and I don't know the words. So no one should ever feel bad about themselves if they suck in a performance. Sometimes we just suck, we're actors. if you're looking at it going, oh, I'm shit, most likely, I don't know if you've ever seen that thing. Oh, what's it called? Oh, there's this book and it talks about how you're, as a critic,

of something that you love and that you want to do, your talent as a critic is better than your talent as a novice. I can't remember if it's the big leap or something. I think it's the big leap, the book, but it's got a fish tank on the front of it. So basically your talent as a critic of acting, because you have watched more acting than you've done when you're new, you will be a better critic than you will be an actor. And that doesn't mean that you're going to be a bad actor. It just means that you don't have the experience.

David John Clark (44:57)
look it up.

Kym Jackson (45:16)
So I think new actors beat themselves up and go, I'm bad in this, so I'm never gonna be good. It's like, no, no, no, you can get better. You just have to train and you just have to work really hard. I don't think most of the actors that I watch self tapes of have done a hundred read-throughs of that scene. Whereas I, last year I did 66 film and TV auditions. I booked six of them. Yes, and I've got like 40 % of them myself through self submissions.

David John Clark (45:38)
Wow, beautiful.

Kym Jackson (45:45)
Even if I'm doing it with like an iPad with the lines on it or with the sides in my hand, I will still read through it hundreds of times before I do it.

David John Clark (45:53)
know what's happening.

Kym Jackson (45:54)
Yeah, because

I want to know the beats of the scene. I want to feel it out. I want to get used to it. I'm not rehearsing it at full energy. So I'm not killing the scene, but I'm rehearsing. I'm getting those words into my muscle memory so that I can be in it. So I can really be in it. I don't want to be thinking about the words. And I certainly don't want to be using the take where I got the words right. That's not the kind of auditioning I want to do. And that's not the kind of acting I want to do. I want to know that I want to be able to do it right from the first take.

David John Clark (46:18)
And embrace those, embracing those moments that you get when you make mistakes. Sometimes they can be the best takes, can't they?

Kym Jackson (46:19)
So that's what, yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So back to your question, the self-tape reel, if you just shoot three scenes, 90 seconds per scene, grab the best 20 to 40 seconds out of each of those self-tapes because you're always going to need a little bit of, either the first start's going to be better, the end's going to be better or the middle's going to be better. So grab 20 to 40 seconds out of each of those self-tapes, cut it together as a little minute and a half reel of self-tapes, leave them wanting more, never put more than, you know, the best, best, best of the scene.

They don't need to see the whole scene. They just need to see the best bit of the scene and long enough, know, 20 as a baseline, 20 seconds as a baseline gives them enough of the scene to, to get sort of see where the performance is moving 20 to 40 seconds. Then you've got your self tape reel. And if you have 60 seconds out of each of those self tapes that you can have as a standalone piece of footage, that's great. Then they can watch the whole scene if they want. And that's their choice. Yeah. Yeah. That could have been my answer to your question, but instead,

David John Clark (47:15)
Gotcha, and upload that to your casting networks and I'm to be.

Kym Jackson (47:23)
there was the five minute preamble. The journey, the journey. By the way, in my classes, I get to the point more because I have a PowerPoint, like I have like a presentation. It's easy.

David John Clark (47:25)
The journey, no, the journey. I love it.

And I know when you present with the Equity Foundation, which is an arm of the Australian Union, MEAA, you have your PowerPoints. But even then, I reckon if we timed or had some sort of measure of your speech patterns towards the end, because then at the end, you could start talking faster. Because I'm looking at the time, we're going to get done. And I know I've got another 20 minutes I want to talk about. Wow. And as I said, we could talk for...

Kym Jackson (47:57)
That's so true. my god. So true.

David John Clark (48:03)
for hours and hours on everything that actors did. And I think some of the pivotal ones were the agencies and, and your self tapes. And also you sort of alluded to a little bit here about your acting and believing in yourself and having a coach that tells you that you are good. I regularly train now with Les Chantery. He's just, he's just wonderful. And he is so wonderful because he turns to all of us in our, in our class and says, you can all act. And that's a

Kym Jackson (48:23)
I love Les!

Yeah.

David John Clark (48:32)
big

thing to know that you've got that down pat. And now it's about finding the nuances of your character and how you do your self tapes and everything like that. I recently looked back on some of my old self tapes and I just went, Oh! my God, I couldn't act. And that was back at day one.

Kym Jackson (48:35)
Yeah.

But we all do, man. Like, we all do it. Like, that's

a sign that you're getting better. How good's that?

David John Clark (48:54)
It's wonderful. It's wonderful. Now going as we wind up, because you've got the book with the name Hollywood on it and I've got I'm wearing the shirt which I've been trying to keep on screen Hollywood. Firstly, thoughts to everyone in LA with the fires. Obviously, it's a tough time for not just actors, but everyone that's in that area. So it's just been a rough year for them and hopefully they get through it and everything. So our thoughts going out to them. But

Kym Jackson (49:04)
Yeah.

I'm

David John Clark (49:25)
How do we get to Hollywood? That's the biggest thing people, I wanna become an actor, I wanna be famous, I wanna get to Hollywood. Do we need to go to America? I know you had your green card or you've got a green card and you've worked in America. Is that process easy or do we need to make ourselves established here and then reach out?

Kym Jackson (49:45)
If someone's under 36, they should go to Vancouver.

Being established in Australia at the highest levels is extremely helpful.

David John Clark (49:56)
Of course.

Kym Jackson (49:57)
Doing 10 low budget indie films in Australia is not helpful. You know, even, it's good to have some TV series credit. It can help to have some TV series credits or to have done a few episodes of Neighbours or Home and Away or whatever. Obviously it's helpful to show experience. All that really gives you is footage for your reel that will hopefully help you get an agent. And...

you'll hopefully in Australia have representation that can refer you into one of their contacts in LA these days. But to build an acting career in Australia is like, I said, okay, so for example, what I said, I did 66 auditions last year for film and TV. I booked six of them.

So then you go, okay, so let's look at that. If I had only been in Australia and I'd done those three auditions and I'm booking one in 10, I actually have a bit of a better booking ratio in Australia. So maybe one in five. That would take me a year and a half to get one job. Instead of in America where I did 66 auditions and I got six jobs in pretty good films with really lovely cast opposite, you know, actually to be honest,

I did book two of the Australian ones. So two of those were the Aussies. That was We Bury the Dead and Hindi Vindi. But the quantity of time that it takes to get the number of auditions that it takes to build a career in Australia is, to me, for my journey, was not acceptable. It was not okay for me. Now it's one thing if you start when you're young and you're a teenager and you

You know, sure, you can do that till you're, know, 23, 24 and then go overseas or whatever. But, but for me, I didn't want to wait. So I went straight to Hollywood. But when I'm recommending it to people now, first of all, the vibe in Hollywood is, is pretty glum at the moment. We're moving back because of the particle pollution. We're actually going to go back to Atlanta, which is where we spent eight months last year. I.

David John Clark (51:52)
Okay.

Kym Jackson (51:55)
would recommend people go to Vancouver on the working holiday visa because you don't have to worry about the O1 visa. In Vancouver, there's a lot of runaway production from Hollywood because the exchange rate's quite good. It's very close so they can fly actors up very easily. And there's a lot of work there. I would then build up my credits in Vancouver where there is a lot of work and less actors than Hollywood.

For two or three years. I think the visa goes for two years and then you can choose whether you want to get permanent residency if you can handle the cold. While there, like on that journey, I would probably meet with Elke or watch Elke's 01 course on the Secret Actor Society. It's a two hour class and it's amazing. She's an 01 visa specialist. I know nothing about 01 visas. I would do a meeting with her and find out how, and I don't get a kickback from Elke. She's just amazing.

David John Clark (52:25)
That's my problem.

Kym Jackson (52:46)
As you're in Vancouver and as you're in Australia, start building up the evidence that you need to apply for an O one in three or four years time, like think long-term about it. So then you keep your Australian agent.

You go to Vancouver, you foot the bill if you need to fly back to Australia for a job and you lose money on it and who cares? Because you would lose that money spending a thousand bucks on a class anyway. So spend a thousand bucks on a plane ticket and fly back and do a show as a local hire in Sydney, whatever. I lose money flying to places all the time on jobs and I don't care

and I'd do it a thousand times. So go to Vancouver, start prepping and getting evidence for your O1. Hopefully integrate in the industry there, get PR if you can and stay for four or five years and then plan to move to either Atlanta or Los Angeles would be the long game plan.

David John Clark (53:20)
Beautiful.

And I like to drop this line because I know this, that the O1 visa for applications for outside of America, it is for aliens with extraordinary abilities. And that is written. How cool is that?

Kym Jackson (53:48)
It is, it is

aliens of extraordinary ability. That's so rad. It's too good. But still, I would say it makes more sense to go to Vancouver to be honest. There's the ratio of work to actors is really good in Vancouver.

David John Clark (53:54)
I think that's a movie title. I like that.

Nice, nice. And that's what I'll probably look at that myself because I am very fortunate. I talk about this all the time. I'm in the last two, three years of my career, the one that pays the bills and I'll be able to retire on my full pension and I won't have to worry about the money sort of thing. So I can follow the acting. So that's a path that I will probably look at then. So I know.

Kym Jackson (54:10)
Yeah, dude.

What?

So cool. Well, look,

Vancouver, the working holiday visa is only for people up to 36 years old. You do look 36. But for you, it may be better. would, if I were you, because you're now a Secret Actor Society member, if I were you, I would watch the 01 class and start writing a list of how close you are and then maybe have a chat with Elke.

David John Clark (54:36)
I look 36.

Definitely.

Hmm.

Kym Jackson (54:56)
And the good thing is you don't have to pay lawyers fees because she's not a lawyer. She's worked with lawyers for years, but she specifically does this visa stuff. And have a chat with Elke about what's missing and see if you can get your O1. And then even think about Atlanta. The particle pollution in LA is going to be bad for about two years. So unless you move to Long Beach, you really don't want to be in central LA, especially if you have kids.

David John Clark (55:17)
Okay, fair enough.

Yeah. And if you've got that ability to move around, see my wife and I want to do a long time in the States in an RV traveling around. So. Boom, boom and come back.

Kym Jackson (55:30)
Oh cool, yeah, Atlanta's the spot man, because it's right in the middle. So could go up to New York, you could

go down to like Nashville and everything. I mean, it's a really central and beautiful location. The only thing it doesn't have is a beach, which sucks.

David John Clark (55:43)
That's fair enough. But then I guess the other option too is also with I'm looking at the green card lottery. So you can. Yeah. Yeah.

Kym Jackson (55:48)
Do it every year and everyone

should be doing that every year. And guys, that's a big thing. Don't go to any.com for the green card lottery. The green card lottery is a .gov only and free. You do not have to pay any fee and no one can get you put as a priority in the line. That is all a crock of shit.

David John Clark (56:00)
and free!

No,

They put that all on their website. I have talked about that before. And quickly on that then for working in America, the American accent must have it down pat 100%. Yeah.

Kym Jackson (56:10)
Good.

Of course.

What you should really be doing, first of all, the way I did it, mean, I was always accents were really, I was a cheat. Like some things aren't easy in life for some people. Accents are really easy for me. I would put, yeah, I can mimic. I just hear it and I can do it. But if you want to learn an accent, like if you're doing the American accent, put a cork in your mouth and do the accent around the cork.

David John Clark (56:29)
Ah, that's not fair because I'm tone deaf and I can't do it.

Kym Jackson (56:44)
Because then don't like choke on it, just put the tip of the cork in. And I'm saying cork by the way, with an R, cork, put a cork in your mouth. So put a cork in your mouth and do your entire scene with a cork in your mouth because it overworks the muscles. And I also would play your favorite show, listen to a line, pause it, repeat the line.

David John Clark (56:44)
Okay.

Cork, cork, yep, put a cork.

Kym Jackson (57:10)
Listen to the next line, pause it, repeat the line, do that for an entire episode of something you've already seen. And the other thing is you have to be able to do it in conversational dialogue. So when you go to a shop where you don't know anyone or a bar or wherever people go to interact with strangers, you have to pretend to be, it's very important. You have to pretend to be American. I had a friend who's who I've had two friends actually lose huge jobs because they were told

David John Clark (57:20)
Yes.

Kym Jackson (57:36)
look, we're going to try to train you up in the American accent. They didn't get it right. And they ended up losing the job because the person hired them for their talent. And then they couldn't get the accent right in the end. I had another friend who walked around for a year and a half talking in the worst American accent ever. And he's like, I just need to get it. And by the end of the year and a half, he was really good at it. But it made me like, I could have killed him and good on him. Like, so you just, have to have conversational dialogue and any accent that you're learning. It's really important.

David John Clark (57:40)
All right.

enough.

Got it.

Beautiful,

fair enough. I was just thinking to myself there that some of the discussions we've had here, the two difference of things that you've said about career and everything, because my son is in second year of Flinders drama here in Adelaide. And you were saying, going back to our talk about agents and that, and so out of school, go straight to Sydney. So I'm going, Connor, okay, that's what he can do. And now you say, go to Vancouver, Connor, go again. He'll be under 36, so he can go straight over there. Whereas...

Kym Jackson (58:14)
sweet.

Yeah?

David John Clark (58:31)
us old guys have got a different path.

Kym Jackson (58:34)
Well, if he gets PR, he might be able to sponsor you in. If he goes over two years and then gets permanent resident, I want to bring my parents, my retired pensioner parents. Exactly. Bloody oath!

David John Clark (58:39)
I ride on the back of him. Who've got money and can feed me. Feed me.

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. That is fantastic information of, of making that journey work here and locally and then across to America. And I wanted to say quickly too, the difference in auditions, like you said, in Australia compared to America and the success rate, it's almost like trading when I, when I traded,

foreign exchange and options trading, I had a system in place that I knew was 70 % accurate, but only if I traded all the time. So I was only trading a small window because I didn't have the time or the money. So there was more chance that I picked up losing trades. Now here in Australia, so let's say in America, you were saying you had 66 auditions to get six jobs, which is probably an above average success rate. I

forget the podcast I listened to they said it's about 40 auditions to get one job.

Kym Jackson (59:36)
Oh God, that sounds exhausting. That's why I hate commercial auditions. Every time I get a commercial audition, I'm like, Oh, just punch me in the face. Then Andrew makes me do them. But I don't read for commercials in America. I only do it in Australia because all the Aussie agents seem to, and the casting people here seem to do commercials and film and TV. They don't do that in the States. It's all separate. And so I was in the States. I was like, no, no way I'm spending that much time on auditions, 40 auditions for one job. But it was dumb because all my friends who do commercials make stacks of money. Yeah.

David John Clark (59:38)
So.

Okay.

Bye, see ya.

Mmm.

Money. see,

for me, I think I can't remember the exact number. I think I did four or five auditions last year for actual role. So, but yeah, so, but you put those ratios in there to get 40 auditions. Let's go with that number. I haven't done 40 yet. I've done 10 years and I've probably got close to 40. So I'm due for my role.

Kym Jackson (1:00:09)
Yeah, that's Australia though.

Ten years. Yeah, that's ten years.

Mate, yeah, and that's just like, that's just, it's, it's not a livable, like that's not, it's not a career that's a hobby, you know what I mean? Like it just, in Australia, it seems like there's, it's just, there's not enough work, even though there is more work coming and it is getting better, you just have to be maniacally proactive about, for instance, like why aren't more actors

David John Clark (1:00:33)
Mmm, yeah.

Kym Jackson (1:00:49)
going to the AACTA's? Like I just ran into every casting director on the planet and they were doing panels and I introduced myself to Anousha Zarkesh who I'd never read for and never met before. Like I went up to her, was like, hey, I've never met you, I've never read for you, I've got like a pretty decent resume. She's like, whoa, like send me your stuff. Like I've been overseas and so she doesn't know me. And so like things like that where why aren't actors

David John Clark (1:01:08)
I... Fair enough.

Kym Jackson (1:01:13)
footing the 450 bucks to go to the AACTA events. Anyone can go. It's not like it's exclusive. You just buy a ticket. And the panels and stuff, the open day, that's good strategy to be at things like that and to be at the awards. Even just to be seeing their faces, even to run into them. I love meeting people at the food table and at the bar. And you can meet people everywhere. And yes, everyone's busy networking. And you might feel, why would they want to talk to me? But guess what?

David John Clark (1:01:21)
Yeah.

Kym Jackson (1:01:42)
It's not about having a big long chat. It's about popping the chair, popping the seal, having that one interaction and then the next year to see them again. And then the next year you see them again. And that's what sort of ends up happening. It's just over time again, it's becoming part of the tribe, you know? So it's

David John Clark (1:01:53)
and then the door opens.

And a lot of people

will say, but I can't afford it. I said, yeah, but did you have a coffee today? Did you have a coffee yesterday? We can make it work. I know we're all under financial constraints, especially as actors, especially if you're trying to be a full-time actor and you're not working, but make it work. Find a way to make it work.

Kym Jackson (1:02:02)
mate? Yeah?

Well, when I was doing

If you really want it, you make it happen.

David John Clark (1:02:17)
That's fantastic. Kym, I'm mindful of the time, so I just have one question as we wind up for you. If you had to give one piece of advice to an actor who in their journey was struggling to keep up with that journey, what would you say to them to push them to the next level and not give up?

Kym Jackson (1:02:37)
Find a community, like really find a community. Because you become the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Curate your friendships, your relationships. If someone is negative around you, you cannot spend time with them because you're constantly battling to stay, you're constantly battling that negativity. You need to be around people who are championing, not only championing you, but they're championing themselves. People where...

they're finding success and you're getting a little bit jealous, but it's a healthy jealousy that gets you motivated because when you see a celebrity being famous, there's a detachment. You go, well, yeah, but they're famous. But when you see a friend of yours getting famous, all of a sudden it creates a possibility in the non-physical world where your sort of non-physical self goes, well, if they can do it, I can do it. So then the jealousy that you feel is the gap

between where you are and where you wanna be now that you've seen that you could actually get it. And that energy is really important energy. So be around people who are not only championing you to succeed, championing themselves to succeed, but also they are succeeding so that you can remind yourself on a regular basis that it is actually possible for you.

Knowing that it's possible, creating the possibility for anyone who's done Landmark, there you go, it's creating the possibility of things working out the way that you believe they'll work out like have have you have to have a dream board like a board of where you want to be so that you can see your goals written down, you have to write down your goals if you want to achieve them. And physical health guys, people don't talk about this enough with mindset stuff, your gut health is directly tied ....

there's a billion trillion gazillion voices down there in your belly. If you're eating crap and drinking alcohol, all those voices are going to be little bastards. Whereas if you, like they can be little jerks, but if you're eating healthy, treating your body right, exercising three to five times a week, and I don't just mean cardio, I mean do weights. And if you've got a disability, figure out what you can do because there are always things that you can do with your body for the majority,

David John Clark (1:04:32)
I love it.

Definitely.

Kym Jackson (1:04:49)
for most people. Have the respect for your body to keep yourself in good physical health. And muscle mass is the most important thing.

I think for not only longevity, also for feeling good about yourself. Because if you can control, like we're in an industry where we can't control it, right? If you can control your physical health, then you're in control of something that gives you validation. And then you're not looking to your career for validation. You're not looking to other people in your romantic relationships or your social relationships for validation. You can validate yourself by going, well, look what I've done. Look what I've managed to do. I've taken care of myself,

David John Clark (1:05:05)
Hmm

Yes.

Kym Jackson (1:05:28)
this amazing vessel that I've kind of, the skin suit that I've been put in. And then you have that and no one can take that away, you know, like that's your thing. Not to mention when you're working on set for 12 hours a day and you're exhausted and they've got you doing physical stuff. Like I was doing a sex scene the other day and it's my first sex scene in like eight or nine years. It's on this amazing film called Born to Lose. And like, it was like a solid three minute take of me doing all the work.

David John Clark (1:05:33)
get to.

Kym Jackson (1:05:57)
I was like, some cardio there. Like, thank goodness I started working out the minute I booked the role. But I think physical, it's not always going to be something like that, but I think your physical health is extremely, extremely important in what we do from a purely logistical standpoint, but also from a mindset standpoint. So again, a long winded answer. Also do the subconscious blocks course on secretactor.com.

David John Clark (1:06:00)
Ha ha ha!

No.

Love it, love it. Okay, and then as we wind up there, where can people find you personally for your acting career? And just reiterate the website address for Secret Actor Society before we finish up.

Kym Jackson (1:06:33)
So

my Instagram is, my name is Kym with a Y. So the Kym Jackson. So T-H-E-K-Y-M Jackson. I do not talk about any of this acting career stuff on my Instagram. It's just a fun like acting page. I think I like to keep it separate. We also have Secret Actor society on Instagram, but the website is secretactor.com. And what was that code we made? BLOOMER.

David John Clark (1:06:49)
Nice.

BLOOMER.

B-L-O-O-M-E-R.

Kym Jackson (1:07:04)
The code BLOOMER will give you, you get a seven day free trial, but the Code BLOOMER will give you 50 % off your first payment. So that means if you sign up for annual, you'll get 50 % off annual, your first annual payment. Quarterly, 50 % of your first quarterly, monthly the same, 50 % off your first monthly before it goes to full price. And guys, it's super underpriced. By the way, I saw you interviewed Darren from WeAudition. I love him so much. And we have snuck into so many parties together and he can ...

David John Clark (1:07:24)
Awesome.

Ha ha

Kym Jackson (1:07:34)
P.S: that man can get you into any party. So if you ever see him at a film festival, you need to like tag along.

David John Clark (1:07:40)
Yes, I've got

to find an excuse and an ability to get over for one of the WeAudition parties now. My wife...

Kym Jackson (1:07:46)
my God, they're so

good. And WeAudition by the way is really good. If you ever need a reader guys, so good. Good, good.

David John Clark (1:07:49)
Most definitely. I talk about that all the time. So Kym,

thank you very much. I will put all that information in the show notes for everyone to listen. We will definitely have to have you back on the show. I feel, as I said, we've just missed out on so much that we could talk about. It's been wonderful to have this two-way chat. I've seen so much of you online

Kym Jackson (1:08:02)
Any time.

David John Clark (1:08:13)
through the Secret Actor Society, through the Equity Foundation, where you're very, very generous in providing your information to the actors out there, which is why I do this show and run my Facebook group here in Adelaide, because I believe in giving back to the industry so people might be able to speed up the process and not make the mistakes that I've made. And I'm sure that's why you've done the same stuff. So thank you very much.

Kym Jackson (1:08:37)
thank you.

And thanks for what you're doing.

David John Clark (1:08:40)
Kym, thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show.

Kym Jackson (1:08:40)
question.

Thank you so much guys. I'll see you all in the monthly coaching Zoom or the fortnightly coaching Zooms on Secret Actor Society. Hopefully David will be in there too. And thanks so much for listening. Cool. Thanks for having me. Cheers.

David John Clark (1:08:54)
Most definitely. Thank you very much. Been a pleasure.

David John Clark (1:09:00)
Wow, what a fantastic conversation with Kym Jackson. There was so much to take away from this chat, but a few key points really stood out to me. First, acting is a long game. Success doesn't happen overnight and Kym's journey proves the power of perseverance. She reinforced the importance of building strong relationships, whether it's with casting directors, agents or fellow actors. Networking isn't just about getting jobs.

It's about becoming part of a community that supports and uplifts you. Another big takeaway was the balance between craft and business. Yes, we need to be great actors, but we also need to know how to market ourselves effectively, having solid self-tapes, concise demo reels and representation that aligns with our goals. And our goals do change. So you need to be on top of it all the time and continually re-evaluating where you're at.

I loved Kym's emphasis on manifesting success. It's not just about skill, it's about mindset, preparation and choosing the right projects that align with your values. So whether you're just starting out or looking to take your career to the next level, I hope this conversation gave you some valuable insights and practical tools to apply to your own journey. Team, thanks for joining in. And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with your fellow actors. And don't forget.

Please also consider becoming a paid supporter of the show for as little as $3 a month. You will get the opportunity to jump on live with me for my recordings in the future and ask questions directly of my guests before the show is published. The links are in the show notes down below. So team, until next time, and as always, I'll see you on set.