The Money Problem

Why does it feel wrong to get paid for the work that feels most like you?

This episode explores the hidden imposter syndrome behind happy work, and why charging well for the work you do isn’t selfish, but essential.

When your work is real, payment isn’t a bonus. It’s what allows it to continue.

If your work is an expression of who you are, getting paid for it is what keeps it alive.

Follow on Linkedin: Olivier Egli 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm your host Olivier, and this is the Do Happy Work Podcast, where we look at work in a different, more natural, and more peaceful way. Welcome to another episode of the Do Happy Work Podcast. I'm your host, Olivier Eggley, your voice of nature in business. And we like to investigate one specific question per episode that relates to happy work. And this question comes from one of our followers. What is this week's question?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

So the question is: I love what I do and I feel like I'm doing happy work, but in the end, I'm just selling. What do I have to do to change it so it doesn't feel so transactional?

SPEAKER_01 0:37

So it's like the fact that they're selling destroys the impression that they're doing happy work. So there's almost like a guilt that comes with uh the notion of selling where we love everything we do, but then comes the transactional moment and that kind of destroys everything about the work that we did. Maybe also like the fact that the question is maybe not formulated in an ideal way shows how difficult the topic it is. Because I think there is a lot of judgment in that. Uh, where we say that, oh no, happy work cannot deal with money. As soon as money enters the equation, now it's not happy work anymore. Which is of course wrong. Because for one, how are we supposed to do our work? How are we supposed to be engaged in happy work without payment? We can't. Right. Because then we resort to this kind of philanthropy where we just run on hot air, and then our offering suffers because since we don't get paid, we have nothing really to offer because right, that's the reality of the world that we live in. So it's more about maybe also clearing up the idea of getting paid. But I think that real question runs actually deeper. As always, it's a little bit layered. Let me take the first part of the question. I really love what I do, and we talk about this almost every time on every episode. Happy work is not to love what you do, it's to do what you love. So that is a very quintessential thing because a lot of people just get comfortable with what they do and now they love doing it so much because they convince themselves, and now they have a problem with getting paid for it. But I imagine you you somehow bend yourself out of shape to love what you do, and now you even reject payment for it, you're really left stranded with nothing. What I propose is something different. I propose to express what's already in you as your happiness, right? As your work. But then I ask you to give it, but then I ask you as you give it to open yourself up to get paid for it, of course.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

You said something though, you reject getting paid for it. Where does that come from?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

This is also very layered. We reject getting paid because we have this weird idea that we are only helpful if we can help for free, right? A lot of people think happy work is just helping people for free. That's not at all what I say. Because this boils down again to the way we build relationships. I base everything I say on models found in nature. And in nature, there is this thing that we call symbiosis, which means that two parts are engaged in a relationship that is cyclical. But what maintains the cyclical nature of a relationship? Only the two parts, the two parties that are involved in giving and taking, giving and taking. But the giving and taking needs to come from both sides. That means that if you are giving the work, you also have to take what comes back from your work. And so to reject something coming back from your work means you stop the relationship. You don't have symbiotic relationships.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

I think it's important to zero in on to reject, to stop something coming back from your work. Uh, I wonder how does that translate to this question? Like, what do they have to change in order not to reject that, not to stop it, not to see it as some transactional thing?

SPEAKER_01 4:25

So here's the thing. I mean, of course, you could go as far as saying, like, what is that work that they're doing? What is the value that they're offering? What is the need that that value addresses? But in the end, it really boils down to an understanding of you and the person you are in a relationship with, your client, are you really at eye level? Are you engaged in a cyclical relationship where you recognize each other's value? Because once you do that, payment becomes obvious, it becomes evident. So if you have something to give that's of value, and somebody who has a real need receives that value, what is the consequence of that? The consequence is that the person that receives your value wants that value to continue to exist. And from this comes the fact that they will pay you for it, they will give you back what you ask to be given. But here's now the thing: the person that wrote this question might feel guilt for one specific reason. They probably see payments that we receive as something that we take out of the relationship. But what they could do, if they're really doing happy work, if they're really doing the work they are meant to do, as in symbiotic relationship with people, they could reinvest that money. Now you see what happens when we get paid for something we gave, so we get this in return, and we reinvest it into more giving. Well, now you have this cyclical, you know, this flywheel of value that's happening. You give your value, your light, the other person, your customer, receives your light, converts that into something that happens in their life, and into money that flows back to you. And you now convert that money, the financial value back into more value that you can bring back into the relationship, which creates this cyclical relationship, right? This what we see in nature when two parties are involved in a symbiotic relationship.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

So would you say that based on this question, the person potentially and if you're listening, potentially they don't really think that they're delivering value. I just feel like if you're really delivering the value, you it's almost like you deserve to have that money in return. Absolutely. And you don't question the the the actual literal transaction of just monies exchanging from one account to another.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah. I think a lot of our conditioning prevents us from receiving money. A lot of our conditioning prevents us from uh accepting money in return because we consider either it as dirty because we now say, like, oh, we're just being transactional. But on the other hand, I also think that it comes from the fact that we don't value ourselves enough. So if you really do happy work, which again is the expression of something that's true about you that you really value for yourself, then it comes naturally with the self-permission to get paid for it. To go out there and ask for the world not to pay you back is basically you saying that what I have to give is not of value. It's not that you say that it's not of value because it's not of value to someone else, it's because you yourself don't think you should get paid for it, and therefore you also interrupt, you interrupt the flow back to you. But when you interrupt the flow back to you, you also interrupt the giving again. So now you interrupt your work. I want to stress very specifically that this person probably still lives in the customer relationship reality of the world, which is linear, which is the customer journey. We begin at the somewhere at you know at the top of the funnel, and then we go through the funnel and then we end at the bottom of the funnel with the transaction. And yes, there's something highly unnatural about that because it's finite. It's finite and it's a it's like you know, a blade that cuts through reality, and on one side is us, and on the other side is the client, and we're just connected by the money. But what I'm proposing is the model of nature where this line is bent, it's curved, and it's closed, and it's infinite, and where there's no end of the customer journey. Because at the end of the customer journey, we don't just take the money out and run with it, but we take the money, we take, of course, what we need to live, but we take all the rest and invest it back into that circle so that more people can have more access to more of our value. And then, of course, with that all impression that money could be dirty or payment could be wrong evaporates because suddenly we realize A, we deserve this, B, our work necessitates payment. We don't even have to ask ourselves that question anymore. You wake up in the morning, you know what your happy work is, you go, you build and spread your value, it falls on the people you're meant to serve because they have the need that's best relating to the value that you bring. They pay you, you welcome the money with open arms because you know it's just the universe giving back what you sent out so that you can do more of it. You reinvested, and now you find ways to do even more of that. And this is why this is the only reason why we should be growing. This is the only reason why we should have more and more clients so that the value becomes better, more accessible. It also means that some people will pay for other people who cannot afford it over time. This is how symbiotic relationships work. They're not they're not like, oh, I will make it impossible for you to have my value, and I will make it impossible for you to have more of it, and I will cut it off from the rest of the forest. It's about how can I give my value so that in the process of giving and getting paid for it, I can do more of it.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

I also think that what's important there is that there is no expectation on the other side. You're giving the value because you're giving the value. In nature, something gives because it gives. It's not like, oh, I gave you sunshine, so I expect you to grow.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

No.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

But the tree just grows. I think that the person might also be like questioning whether or not it had an impact on them. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

It's like it's a good point. It's a good point. I mean, even though we're we're entering, you know, psychological and behavioral territory, we could say that if I don't see a change in the person I'm serving, if I don't feel like I'm actually being useful to them, I don't deserve payment. Yeah, and that's wrong. Because it is not your responsibility what happens with your value once the person has received it. You are in charge of giving value, you are in charge of making it accessible, you are in charge of singing your song, of building the stage, of presenting yourself. And that is your value, but also knowing that your value is valuable, right? So that the people you have brought into this room that you have attracted, there's a connection between your value and the need that they have. But that's all you can hope for, and that is enough to get paid for it. It's not about this person now running away with your value, coming back 10 years later and telling you, ah, it was shit. I'm actually only gonna pay you half. Because now you make your payment, your own value dependent on whatever they do with it. But that's their responsibility. Everybody in a cyclical relationship bears responsibility. Your share is the giving of value. Their share is that as soon as they receive their value, because they're there to receive it, that they pay you for it. Not just for the sake for themselves, but also for your value so that it can continue to exist. The exchange in nature, the symbiotic exchange, is extremely essential. It's not just based on hobbies and on sentiments, it's based on survival and thriving.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah, and this isn't about an I'm an IOU, I'm creating a favor. It's literally we are giving to receive.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

And receiving to give. Because again, it once the value lands, they do whatever they want with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Whatever, but they have received the value, which means that an exchange has happened, and that exchange needs to be paid for. We gave, they give, so we can give again.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

If they decide to leave, which happens all the time, that's okay, because now we have been paid and we can build more value that is available to those who are ready for the next one.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So I think that really answers the question, and I I I want the person to the example of nature that you gave, I think it takes away any hesitation in whether or not it is a transformative relationship that you have and whether or not it's a cyclical relationship that you have.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I mean, it boils down to the question of intention. What is the reason why you are engaged in the relationship? This person, and I'm talking to that person right now. What is your intention in the work that you do and in the relationships that you build from your work? That answer, if you really find the answer at the bottom of your heart, will answer whether or not you think you actually deserve that money and will also explain if that money in your own consideration is dirty money or deserved money. If you do this just for the money and to take it out of there, I agree, it's an unnatural take. And then it's just your honest soul showing you that you don't deserve that money because the relationship is not natural. But if you say, like, no, this is this is my honest true labor of love, this is the expression of my truth, then you answer the question for yourself. You should get all the money in the world for it. Open the door. You open the door to express, open the door for the expression to come back to you. Since you're generous with your work and giving, also be grateful when it comes back. Generosity and gratitude go hand in hand. If you only have one of them, you create a system of imbalance that will eventually die. Whenever you're generous, also be grateful.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Well, thanks again for listening, everyone. Keep sending in your questions. This is what we love to do. We want to take things apart and hopefully answer this for you with a little bit of advice and then some. So if you like what you're hearing, be sure to leave a review, share it with your friends. Thanks for being here.