Tayo Aina | Travel, Passports & Building a Global African Brand

What does it really take to build a global career from Africa? 

In this episode of The Long Form Podcast, filmmaker, entrepreneur, and YouTube creator Tayo Aina reflects on a decade of traveling across Africa and the world, documenting cities, cultures, businesses, and untold stories. 

We discuss the hidden costs of creating world-class content, the challenges of traveling with a Nigerian passport, why he acquired a second citizenship, what Africa looks like when you've seen it up close, and the opportunities he believes the rest of the world still overlooks. 

This is a conversation about travel, entrepreneurship, identity, freedom, and the future of Africa.

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Produced by LF Media 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

You know this is the big lead on the moment and the yet makeup big feet or TikTok. The long form comes to bubble with what the long form. What did it say? The long form.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

The long form. The long form. This conversation is brought to you by Akagera Medicines, a biotech company that is majority owned by the Ronan people. Akagera Medicines is not only committed to expanding access to healthcare, but also supporting conversations that inform, educate, and empower. Learn more about Akagera Medicines by scanning the QR code on your screen or by visiting their website at Akagera Medicines.com. Travel is often presented as freedom, but for many Africans, movement is one of the biggest obstacles to opportunity. My guest today on the Long From Podcast is Tayo Aina. Tayo, a Nigerian filmmaker and entrepreneur, is one of Africa's most successful YouTubers with over 1 million subscribers on the platform. Over the last decade, Tayo has traveled across Africa and the world documenting cities, businesses, cultures, and people. His work has taken him from Lagos to Kigali, from the Hadsa tribe in Tanzania to some of the most remote places on earth. But behind the videos are bigger questions. What does Africa look like when you've seen it up close? What does it actually take to build a global creative business from the continent? And what have years of movement taught him about opportunity, identity, and the future of Africa? Taya, my brother, my Nigerian brother. Welcome to the Long Form Podcast. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's a huge pleasure. I've been watching you, you know, you're you and and Wode and Steven Doku were the people who kind of helped us survive uh COVID, the COVID lockdown. You know, you you took us out of our homes and took us around the world. And I I think I discovered you around that time. And to now have you here is a huge pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, especially when, you know, I look at I look at what I want to what I want to be and how I want to become, and I see who you are and what you've become. It gives me a lot of inspiration. And uh I just want to give you your flowers. Thank you. I'm honored. Thank you. You know, the last time you were in Kigali was six years ago. What took you so long to come back and uh what feels different this time? What took me so long?

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Well, I think I was exploring the world. I mean, we saw that. I was exploring, I was exploring different countries because I rarely ever go back to the same place I've gone to before because I would rather just go to somewhere new and explore. But yeah, I think now was a good time to come back. And yeah, it definitely looks very different. Last time I was here was I think that was seven years ago. 2019. 2019. 2019, yeah. It was I think in June, July, 2019. It's a long time ago. So being back here is so different. The whole city is very, very different. And I think the last time I came, I only spent two days. So I didn't get to see much. I was watching Kigali. But this time, I got to spend at least over a week and I got to explore the country more. So I think I'm just properly knowing Rwanda. The first time I came, I didn't get to know it properly. But yeah, I think I know it better now. What brought you the first time? I think I was just curious. There are some countries. I can't really specifically say what made me make that decision, but I know I did the first African country I ever did in like in the first African country was Kenya. So after I done Kenya, I think I was now like, okay, what are the other countries around that close to Kenya? And I was like, okay, let me come back to East Africa again. I think I did Ghana, which was close to Nigeria, and then I was like, okay, let me come to Rwanda. And I think then too, I think the airline was already operating then. Yeah. So I think it was also easy to come in. I don't think we needed visa, and we was a visa on arrival or something. Yeah. Yes. So I was passing through. I think I was passing through here to somewhere. That's what made me kind of like say, let me stop by for like two days and then go to where I was going to.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

How do you afford all these things? Because I am, you know, right now where you are today, you know, you probably make, I'm not going to count your pockets, but there's a certain amount of notoriety and and and fame that then allows you to move the way you want to move. Yeah. But you aren't always this way. Yep. Travel is not cheap.

SPEAKER_04 5:15

Yeah. It isn't. Freaking expensive. It's probably the most expensive when it comes to content creation or comes to filmmaking. It's probably the most expensive niche or the most expensive space. Because, you know, podcasts, we can just set this up, have this conversation here. People who are doing like lifestyle, they can maybe do stuff in their house and maybe go around the city. But travel is like every time you want to make content, you have to get on a plane to somewhere. You have to go for hotels, you have to do all of that. So the costs keep racking up.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Again, there is where you are today, you know, versus your starter. Yeah. The hardest thing usually in a journey is the beginning. Yeah. But how do you what made you start it? Right? Because obviously you've talked about the level of investment that is needed. Yeah. So you took that risk. Yeah. Were you thinking, okay, this is going to become a lucrative thing? Nope. So then why would you start if you think it's just going to make you broke?

SPEAKER_04 6:21

Because I didn't know. I didn't even I didn't start out as a travel creator. Even though I don't still see myself as like a travel creator. I know most of my content is like traveling and going to places. I think for me it was more of like I used to be an Uber driver in Nigeria. Yeah. I used to drive over in Lagos. After I graduated, I've always been this kind of person who I like to anything I want to do, I like to make sure I'm in control. And I like to make sure that I'm being paid based on my efforts. Like if I put in more effort, then I make more. So one of the easiest things that I saw to put my hands on after I finished from uni, because I didn't want to go, I didn't want to work for anybody. I done a job. I'd been at a job earlier. I think the only job I've ever held was for three months at a motorcycle store in Lagos. I used to be like their what was I doing? I was like everything, web developer. I was there, the guy that sends on errands to go and buy stuff for the man's kids and stuff. So yeah, that was the only job I ever held. But after that, I was like, okay, I wanted to just do something else. And then I joined Uber. Uber came to Nigeria then. And yeah, that was my first, not my first experience in business, but that was the first thing I did after after uni. So as I was picking people up, dropping them off at places, I was now like, I used to watch YouTube in my free time, and I was like, hmm, what if I could actually start, you know, filmmaking? I started with from filmmaking first before I moved into YouTube. So I learned how to make videos, then shot for people, and then from shooting videos for people, I was learning a lot of how to shoot those videos from YouTube. And I said, let me start to make my own content on YouTube. Like these guys are in the US, UK, you know, they're making this content, I'm watching this. Why can't I make mine? Somebody else watch it. So that's how it started. I didn't start it with like the mindset of like becoming a YouTuber, becoming a travel. Because I didn't travel. Like my first trip outside of Nigeria was in 2018. How old were you then? How old was I? That's probably like where I was 20. Maybe 25 or something, 26? 25. I think maybe 25. Yeah, 2018. Because I'm I'm 33 now. So minus like the amount of years. So that was my first trip. Uh, but before then I hadn't traveled. So so yeah, that's kind of like how it started. And then I kept watching people online. I used to watch like at least like 20 videos every day on YouTube. Of of of travel, just travel for everybody. Yeah. I used to watch filmmaking videos to learn how to shoot better. I used to watch just storytelling, how to tell stories better. I used to watch a lot of vlogs from Casey Neistart, Peter McKinnon, many of all these guys in the US. Sam Koda, some some travel. Because travel is kind of like woven into everybody's thing at some point. So you get to still see those guys also travel too. So I was like, hmm, okay. Let me start making videos about places where I was at. Because I didn't have my travel then. So I started making videos about places in Lagos. And that's kind of like how it started. Then Lagos to Nigeria, Nigeria to Africa, Africa to the world.

SPEAKER_03 9:26

When you know the hardest thing is, I always say that when you're a content creator, the hardest thing is at least your first 1,000 subscribers.

SPEAKER_04 9:37

Yeah, so the hardest is actually your first 10,000. Really? Yes. Because 1,000, 1,000 is cool, I know, but your first 10,000 is the hardest. Because 10,000 is really the point where you know you've kind of like built like a solid audience around something that you've made videos enough for 10,000 people to eventually decide to click on that subscribe button. So when you once you can get to 10,000 subscribers, it's like you've been able to find at least some ideas about what people actually want to want to get from you. 1,000, you can do one viral video and get 1,000 subscribers, and then you still don't know if that's actually what they want to want. But 10,000 means you have tested tested out different things enough and you get a sense of like the way you're going.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

How much of your career has been shaped by visa restrictions and travel barriers?

SPEAKER_04 11:04

How much has been shaped by visa restrictions? Well, I would say kind of like it made it much harder for sure. You know, having to deal with all these issues generally, having to apply for visas, you know, bringing all the documents of your great-grandfather to just prove that you're gonna come back. So it made it much harder. And then also even going to some countries and then getting detained, or people just leave USA, then they just have a perspective of you because you're from Nigeria. So, but we kept you know going and pushing through it. Well, obviously. We thank God it's not easy. Traveling in Africa is actually the most expensive and it's also the hardest up to now. It's the most expensive continent to travel anywhere in the world. What's been your hardest experience traveling as a Nigerian on the continent? My hardest. When you say hardest, okay, like hardest in terms of getting there or just the experience.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

There could be literally just trying to get there. Okay. When you land, and just being able to do the work that you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_04 12:11

So I think I would say one in terms of getting into the country was Ethiopia. Why? It's literally the capital of Africa. Well, that's what they call it anyway. That wasn't the capital. What it did to me wasn't the capital. Because I got there and I had to, they told me I had to poop. Excuse me. I had to poop. Like you had to use the toilet. No, I had to, yeah, defecate in front of the the past uh, what's the one of the guys? The the passport control people. Not even passport control, the security. Because they say, Oh, I'm from Nigeria. After searching on my bar, they're like, oh, you you you're probably carrying drugs. And yeah, that's what they told me to do. Yes, before I could get into the country. Okay, I'm I'm I'm you're going to. I made a whole video about it though. No, let's wait.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

So it's a long time ago. No, I'm I'm trying to because I don't, you know, sometimes people will tell me things and I'll hear stories, and my I feel like my brain breaking. Yeah. Because the math does not math. Okay, walk me through this. Someone sees you. Had you at least had you, did you have a visa?

SPEAKER_04 13:19

I had everything. So you had a visa. Yeah, I'd already come through. It's like you're coming down from you already past passport control, everyone. Okay, you've got do you have your bags at this point? You have your bags. Okay. So you're moving at the airport. And then they stop you. Okay. And then they pull you into like a screening room, like kind of like a room like this. And then they search your bag, search my camera, searched everything, and they didn't see anything. And they were like, oh, you know, I need to come follow him to the toilet to go and poop in front of him to make sure that I didn't have anything. And in my mind, I was like, there's the fact that, yeah, you even pulled me aside, first of all, just because you feel like I'm a certain way. But there are machines for this thing. Like, isn't there a way you could guys, why do you have why do you have to humiliate me? Like, and that was my most humiliating thing. It's very dehumanizing. Yeah. Like, why would And they say if I didn't do it, they won't allow me enter the country.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

So I was like, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 14:11

So what happens if you don't like I can't? It's not one of those things where you can just do at a drop of a hat.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

You Yeah, you have to. Yeah, it was, yeah, that's literally just however you want to imagine it, that's how it was. Yeah, it was probably worse than that. But just what it was. So you just had to just do it and move on. That's life. And I made a video about it for sure. Because I had to nice days. I had to literally like make them know that yeah, that you guys really did they ever reach out to you and apologize? Nope, they never reached out, but I think there was a time, I think it's a month after I think some people from Ethiopian Airlines they wanted to walk with me or something, but they were not like, oh, you know, we had we saw your video, we had this happen. But eventually, I think that was all they said, and yeah, nothing really happened after that. I think since then, I don't think I've been to Ethiopia. I mean, why would you listen?

SPEAKER_03 15:07

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SPEAKER_04 17:25

Yeah, I don't think I've been. I think even since then I've not really used Ethiopia Airlines. I've not just had any reason to really pass through the country. But it's not like I have anything against them. Because even after doing that, I still went into the country and made videos promoting the country. I still dropped videos about the positive side of the country. Because at the end of the day, it was bad and unfortunate that happened to me. But at the end of the day, it was one person's decision to decide to do that. Because it was one guy who decided to do that to me. So it wasn't one guy cannot be the whole reflection on the country, but it's still from there. Your whatever experience you get when you land in the country for the first time is a reflection of the country. So all the people at the airport, customs, wherever, they are ambassadors of the country. Yeah, the first people you meet. So if I came into Rwanda now, and then somebody slapped me or something, in my mind now, it just creates a very nation of slappers.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

No, you're the one who said I mean imagine if someone just came and slapped you, yeah, just walking through immigration. Yes. Now you'd see someone raise their hand and you'd Jeez. Yes. Yeah, well, it's just what it is. Does it I mean again, you you know, you we talk about bravery and and and and the way it manifests. I don't I don't see my I don't see myself continuing to do the work after an experience like that. I start asking myself, like, why do I need to put myself through this? Why I'm a human being.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

Well, I think in life, as I say, shit happens. Like shit happened.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Literally.

SPEAKER_04 19:12

Literally, I've forgotten. So you just keep moving, man. Like, I didn't allow that to like, you know, like kill my morale or kill my vibe. South Africa have been detained. You know, Kenya. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, but it's a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

But like, here's the thing you know, the things that you say, and I think every so often, like, we uh me being here in Rwanda, right? I've s I've gotten used to a certain level of normal. Right? Yeah, and and the stories that you're just telling me sound Chinese. If you you catch my catch your dream.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

It doesn't make sense. What do you traveling across Africa? It doesn't many things don't make sense on this continent. Yeah. While the while the while the F airline price is so expensive, it's because everybody, from what I've learned, it's like the taxes are high for most airlines. And we're also not as connected because of you know colonialism and just countries not being able to come together. So it's it's if I was to fly to some countries in Africa, I have to fly over some countries and then fly back. So I go back, I go forward, then come backwards. So it's not connected as much. There are only a few, how many main airlines do we have in Africa? Like there's Rwanda Air, there's Kenyan Airways, Ethiopia, South African, South Africa, and then I think Morocco, Air Maroc, yes, Egyptian Air. Uh-huh. I think that's all. Any West African giants? No. Okay, maybe there's uh, okay, they know there's one. Um Air Codivar. I think there's, yeah, there's I think Côte d'Ivoire has their airline. Côte d'Ivoire Senegal, I think. I don't know. I don't know if Senegal has. But I'm even talking about like the main ones that connect the world, that connect Africa to across themselves and to uh to out to the outside. So it's like it's not a lot.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

But then moving beyond the connectivity issues, which are but those are infrastructural issues. Those are infrastructural issues, yeah. Right, but what you what and that one, you know what? I can I can forgive us for that. What I cannot forgive us is for treating fellow someone, an af an African like Yeah, because it was a white person, that would not happen to him.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Yeah. If it was somebody from Canada, somebody from the UK, somebody from Europe, that would never happen.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Talking about that, about other countries, you now have another passport. You did a big, big, big announcement on on YouTube. You have a passport from the Caribbean, beautiful Caribbean nation of St. Kitts and Nevis. Yeah. I was going to ask you why you got it, but I think I know the answer. But how has it changed the way the way I think about it? You you see the world, you see yourself, and how you see where you come from.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Hmm. Hmm. I would say, yeah, it definitely just made me feel a little bit more relaxed in terms of the fact that okay, I know I have a lot more access now to the world than I had before.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Let's let's walk it, maybe make sense. Let's make it make it make sense. Okay. So today, as a Nigerian password holder, how many countries would you have been able are you able to enter visa free? I think 24. 24. Globally. Globally. Okay. And with St. Kitts?

SPEAKER_04 22:55

Visa free and visa on arrival is like 150. Wow. Yeah. And 150. Last I checked. How? Yeah. So I can go to the UK. I can go to Europe. I can go to many countries in Asia, South America. Yeah. A lot of the major places that I would want to go to. I can go there easily with that. But it's so interesting that since I've gotten it actually, I've not traveled, I've traveled, I'm traveling less now. But just knowing I have it is just makes me happy. Whenever it needs to come in handy, I'm not thinking too much about what it might be. Well, you're obviously not from St. Kitts. Yes, I'm not from St. Kids, but I'm a I'm a I'm a citizen. Yes. So so how does that happen? So there are countries generally across the world who have this thing called the CBI program. It's called Citizenship by Investment. So what they do is like high network individuals or people who have money, they let them invest in the country. And then they use that money to build like roads, schools, just to develop the country. It's like a way there's guerrilla trekking in Rwanda. It's a form of like making money for them. And then they give you a passport of that country that allows you to travel to more places. So they used to do it, they used to do it a lot in Europe. Malta has their own. And then many Caribbean cities have theirs too. I think recently there are some African countries trying to actually start that too. So yeah, so that's kind of like it. And then you're able to easily now travel with the passport of that country. How much does it cost? So the one I did currently costs 250k. 250k what? USD. A quarter of a million dollars. Yeah. For for for a passport. Yeah, it was but you know what annoys me sometimes is um I've never regretted it one day. So when I did mine, it wasn't 250, it was 150. Oh. So now it has it has jumped up. But what annoys me a lot of times is the fact that I had to do that. Because I could have put that money into something else. But I've never for one day regretted the fact that if I if you gave me the money, I'll do it again and again and again. If you gave me the 250k, now I'll still do it again. Because as somebody who travels a lot, I have so much like anxiety with traveling every time I'm about to travel, especially in Africa, because I don't know what is gonna happen at the airport. I don't know how I'm gonna be treated. So it is better now, but I think back then when I when I was going through it, there were opportunities I missed out when I had a Nigerian passport. I was trying to go to Dubai. There was a conference happening. That's actually what broke the camera's back and made me decide to get that passport. I was meant to go to an event that had a lot of all the creators from the world. It was called NAS Summit. I think it was 2022 or something. And then it denied me, they kept denying my. I've been to Dubai before then, but then they had this issue with like Nigerians, and I just kept on denying denying, denying, denying. And I missed out on the first day of the event. I eventually got the visa, maybe after the third denial, I got it because I kept applying, spending money to apply. And then I was just like, and I missed out on the first day because one of the main people who inspired me to start YouTube, KC Neistart, was there on that first day. But I missed out on that first day, and I came on this on the second day. So in my mind, I was like, so no matter how good I am, or no matter how much you know skilled I am, no matter how much hard work I put in, I can still be limited just by the fact that I don't have like just by my Nigerian passports. Because stuff like this that happened. So I was like, no, I need to figure out a way to solve this. And that's what made me decide to just like okay, get a new passport.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

But that's that's like anyone, so so maybe you've I I also saw that you traveled to your new country. Yeah, for sure. It's uh it it doesn't have a population of more than what 50,000 people. Yeah, 50,000. Yeah, no, yeah, that's 50,000. I was very popular when I went there though. There's one of uh you're one of the 50,000. It's a crazy world that we live in where a nation, an African nation that's that's given the world so much and continues to give the world so much, a citizen of that country is treated worse than a little island nation of thank you. Think about it, like when you actually think about it, I understand that that you know you you you have to do what you have to do, yeah. Right? You you but at a systemic level, systematic, like it's it's tragic.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

Yeah, but I understand it. I feel like with like more people and I think it's it's also because we're popular. Nigerians are popular everywhere, man. Like we're we're like we're known across the world. Like it's it's would be even hard to compare that to like when you say sank kids because even sometimes I travel and I give my passport to some um passport control officer, they've never that's their first time ever touching that passport. They've never seen the country before they're like they have to go and check their their books to make sure, okay, is this place is this I think visitor free? Like when I went to Zimbabwe for the first time, that was the passport I used. They had never seen that passport. They were like, Where is where is this? Because they're only 50,000. And also, they don't travel that much. Most people who travel there, they rarely ever they just travel maybe around their Caribbean cities or they go to the US. They don't really come as much because it's such a long journey. To come to go to the Caribbean from here, you probably have to go to London first, Europe first, then fly to the Caribbean, or you go to the US, then fly to the Caribbean. So it's such a lot and it's very expensive. So it's gonna be hard for them to come to Africa. They rather just go to places closer to them. So they don't go, they don't come to Africa as much. So when people see that passport, they're like, they've not seen this before. But yeah, but you have it and they let you in. Yeah, thank God. I think for me, I think my dream, one of my dreams will be to see an Africa, which I think is gradually happening. I'm actually surprised because I think within last year and this year, like four African countries have made it like Togo.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Togo, yeah, Seychelles. Seychelles. I mean Seychelles has been like I'm saying just recently. Yeah, I think Benin. Yeah. There is, I I think I saw Togo.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

Togo, yeah, Benin and Togo. I think they are the most reciprocity.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Nigeria finally made it visa-free for uh Rwandans in the last, literally the last one month.

SPEAKER_04 29:57

To be honest, I because I feel like everything should be reciprocal. Like if Kenyans make it visa-free for everybody, then those countries that made it visa-free for they are meant to. I that's what I believe. So I don't understand why you know a country should make itself visa-free and then other people still have to pay visas to go to the countries because Kenya and Nigeria is kind of like Kenya still have to pay for a visa to get up to now. I think like $80 or something. Which is, and I'm like, it should just be reciprocal. So I'm looking forward to an Africa that is not divided by visas and territories where we can all travel, like the way they have in Schengen region, that would be so perfect. And you can just get up and drive from here to another country without thinking about any issues or have facing any issues. That's one of my dreams.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

And I and I think like the work that people like you are doing, which is showcasing other Africans, because very often I think before the YouTube travel community started showcasing Africa, yeah, we never knew much about each other. Literally, it's only through your eyes that I got to know about the Nigerian. I never knew that there were Nigerian highlands that were beautiful, that were lush. I never knew this. How would I have known? You know Nigerian islands? Highlands, highlands, like the highlands, okay. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Oh, we don't have an island. I was like, okay, which island is it?

SPEAKER_03 31:23

So so you know, I think it was you went to this ranch. Ubu the Katura. Yes, and I just remember thinking, oh, this is amazing. Yeah, right? And and I'm sure that the Nigerians who watch will watch your content or who watch your content from Kigali and who say, Oh wow, this is a yeah, there's a value here.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Yeah, because exactly when you what you said now just remade me, it just reminded me that actually that area is very similar to Kigali. It's very similar to Rwanda in terms of the way there's like is healy, goes up, goes down. So yeah, that was a that was a good one. I just remember that actually here. We have we have different things. We have lakes, we have the sea, we have we have actually the longest coastline in uh West Africa.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

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SPEAKER_04 34:32

But then you don't live there anymore, really? Oh, I live there. I I go between. I actually go between. I've been in Nigeria where in this is 1st of June, and I've been in Nigeria for two months this year.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

That's enough. Yeah, yeah. No, you you did you did a whole video telling telling us that uh you were moving to Europe. Yeah, to Europe to Portugal. Uh Lisbon. Lisbon. Lisbon, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Lisbon, Portugal. Help me understand this.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

Yeah. Why? Why did I move? Yeah. One of my biggest like goals in life is to be free. Free from what? Free from just have the freedom to do whatever I want, wherever I want, whenever I want. Freedom from anything that might stop me from being able to move around. Basically freedom. I think it's just being able to move freely to anywhere, like the way the Europeans do, like the way the Americans do. Another one too is also to be able to live in a place where I don't have to think about a lot of issues that I was experiencing in Nigeria, like no lights, internets, you know, issues and stuff like that. And then also being able to easily travel. So for me, getting the passport was one thing because it allows me to travel, but then it doesn't let me live in those places. It lets me travel to it gives me access. But it doesn't give me like security in terms of like, okay, I'm I'm here, I'm staying here. I don't have a resident in this country, in any of the countries. So for me, Portugal was like one of the places where it felt like, okay, I could get a closer semblance to the life I wanted to live, which is a life where I could just wake up, go for a walk, you know, I could easily get on a flight to somewhere else. It's centralized. It's easier for it's even easier for me to travel from there to many places in Africa than even from within Africa sometimes. So, so yeah, so that was what made led to the decision. And then so I made the move because I wanted to just live in a much I wanted to have a residence somewhere else. How hard was that? It wasn't so hard. It was just more of like me fulfilling the requirements that I needed to have a residence today. And funny enough, now I see myself as a nomad. Because even when I was living in Nigeria, I used to spend maybe like only like four months in Niger. Because think about it, I travel every other week. So that means I'm rarely even in Nigeria when I was even living in Nigeria. But it's just that now I don't necessarily have to come back to Nigeria. Like, for example, this trip, I came from Lagos to Kigali. Now from Kigali, I'm probably gonna fly out to Europe. I wouldn't have done that on a normal day if I if I didn't have that other residency. So from there I could go and explore any other place I want to. That's kind of sad.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

You know, it's kind of it's it's just it's I feel like Africa hemorrhages talent all the time. Like we always, at least for you, you come back, you you stay connected to the continent. I come back. But I've heard this story so many times that you know what I want to be free. Like what you literally talked about. Yeah, you kind of went past it quite quickly, but internet and lights and power. What are we even talking about? Like, yeah. What are we even talking about?

SPEAKER_04 38:06

Yeah, it's just I think it's just what it is. But I think it's even very different from me because I'm traveling. Yeah. So I'm still living the life I was living generally. Because I travel a lot, but I'm just doing it from a place of I'm just doing it with more options. I have more options now. I'm still the same person, but I also have more options now, which is what I'm what I've been, which is what I think what freedom actually means. Being able to have options to decide that, okay, I don't want to do this, I want to do this.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

You know, people like me consume videos, but we actually don't see the business behind the videos. How much does it actually cost to do the work that you do?

SPEAKER_04 38:49

Are you talking about like numbers in terms of like mega videos?

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Let's I'm I'm curious because you know, sometimes you what what you tell us is please subscribe. Yeah. And some some of us, obviously, because you probably suffer from what I suffer from, which is you see how many people watch the the the the channel every month. Yeah, then you see how many people are subscribed. And you're thinking why didn't you guys and sometimes I think it's because people don't fully understand the cost of the free entertainment that we're giving. Yeah. So now you have an opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Yeah. I think to give if to give people like an idea of like videos, I think averagely most of my videos cost around anywhere between 8 to 10k per video. 8 to $10,000. Yes. There are some that have cost even more than that. Like there was a video I did, I went to Russia. Yeah. The one where you did the coldest city in the world. That video cost like almost 16k to make sixteen thousand dollars. Yeah. But thankfully it did well. So do you get the money back? So many times you don't get the money back. So just like I think we're having a conversation earlier and we're talking about how airlines don't make money many times, and then they have that, but then when people come into the country, they make money off the back end. So it's like a marketing thing where you have the front-end product, the front-end product brings in people, yes, and then you convert them and make sales to them through the back end. I think that's what many of my videos are like a lot of the times, and that's what YouTube videos many times are like, because you I lose money on a lot of the videos I make many times. There are some videos that do well, but then I lose money on many of them, especially the heavy travel ones, because sometimes you can spend so much money making a video, maybe like you spent 8k and then you post the video, it might not do well. You don't have a control over how well the video will do. But eventually, once you build out your platform, then you can start having sponsors, you can ask having brands reach out to you, have tourism boards reach out to you and want to sponsor your videos. So sometimes you can make that money back off of that. And then eventually in the future, you can also sell products. Uh, you can launch, you know, merch, you can launch a course. Like I had a YouTube program I was doing and training students on how to like people on how to grow on YouTube. So that would never come if I was not dropping videos and spending all that money making those videos. So that's the front end. The back end is actually really where more of the most of the money is made.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

So walk us through this. So you're spending up to eight, even up to what, eighteen, fifteen thousand dollars per thing that we see. But that's I guess travel.

SPEAKER_04 41:40

Yeah, travel, you know, like sometimes I try I travel, I hire people on ground, I travel with people too sometimes and fly them. Like it was I did in the Ivory Coast, my last video, I flew four people. So me and three other people went on that trip, and then I had to pay for everybody, everybody's you know, like meals, food, hotel, and therefore like go by a week. And Ivory Coast was freaking expensive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

So yeah. Now, and that's when you do an activity, but then there's also the home base, right? So, like there's when you are now editing, and that's the starter capital. You have you have to buy the equipment and this walk us through this. So just the equipment itself.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

So, yeah, so yeah, we just use normal basic Sony's to film, and then obviously I have editors, they have MacBooks. All my editors you've m use MacBooks. And there was a time, like how many. How many editors? I have three editors, and all of them are full-time. Yeah, all of them are full-time.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

And all of them are on salaries? Yeah, all of them are on salaries. Okay, so there are three editors. Who else is on staff? I have a producer now. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:52

I have a thumbnail designer. Thumbnail designer? Yeah. I used to have a scriptwriter before, but now I'm I'm just I'm going back to writing my scripts myself. So there used to be a scriptwriter, but there's a script writer on on demand that I have. So that's like the That's almost eight people who yeah. And then sometimes I also have to hire maybe like fixers in different countries to help you know get connects or get contact so that when we land, it's easier to film in those in those countries. That's uh that's a heavy lift, you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

It is because what what we often see is the glamour of it, right? The finished product or even the numbers, right? So we see Tayo has 1.2 million subscribers, and we think he has it and it's okay, and there's no it's it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

It's it's literally running a you know, when we s when I started out, it was just me trying to be a creative and just let me make something that I like to do, like that I find I'm passionate about, and let me just make this video was exciting. But then Gradually, as you grow, it turns into a business. And then you have to not just be a creative, but you also have to be a manager. You have to manage people. You have to lead people. You have to make decisions. Because every decision you make, you have all these people under you who it impacts them in some way or some form. You're also paying their salaries. You're taking care of them. They are your responsibility. So if there was a time, you know, like even many of my editors, I had to, when I first hired them, they didn't have like computers or anything. I had to buy MacBooks for them. I had to house them. Because then I had to also solve their own problems so that they can do the work that they need to do. Where are you keeping the initial money for all these things? Um, I think it was as I grew. I invest I reinvested money back. So when I first started YouTube, I was first doing filmmaking for other people. So shoot weddings, birthdays, shoot documentaries, and then I made I saved that money, and as I kind of like started off and stopped doing that and focused on YouTube. Then when YouTube started paying me some money, I started to reinvest that back into it. So, you know, make some money today, buy a new camera, make some money, buy a drone, make some money, hire this person, buy a laptop, do this, do that. And that's kind of like how we grew.

SPEAKER_03 45:09

The very first I was looking at your history on YouTube, but we had a discussion earlier.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

And I was saying you thought you had started in 2016. And I actually said, no, no, no. It was April 2015.

SPEAKER_04 45:22

Yeah, I actually thought I started, it was 2017, because in my head, I think my YouTube journey had different phases. So when you said it, you just clicked that. Yes, my first video on YouTube was 2015. But I think I was not I was not doing myself as a YouTuber. I just posted some random stuff I did there. I was like, I didn't see myself as because maybe then I had like 100 subscribers or something. And then 2017 was when I started to now gradually post here and there, maybe once in like three months, four months. But 2019, August, was when I actually went, I made the decision to go in on YouTube, and then I started posting more videos.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

And is that when you started making money from your work? Nope. Started making money then. When did you start making money?

SPEAKER_04 46:03

I would say the first money I made that I was able to withdraw from YouTube was end of COVID, 2020. But from 2019 to 2020, I was making videos. I was saying the money started to come in, but I couldn't withdraw it because we had some there's this AdSense pain thing you need to do. And our postal service was not working like that in Nigeria, so it never came. So I couldn't access that money, but I kept making videos, and I was able to withdraw my first money uh in 2020. How much was it? It was 17,500 or something. That's not bad, but it was over four years of working. Because yeah, because I've been posting videos from 2015 anyway, yeah, till 2020, five years. Like I've been posting videos, obviously, not at the same consistent rate, but it's five years. But it was good because it was for me, I thought like, okay, one day I'll be able to withdraw this money, and when I withdrew it, I was not able to buy more cameras, invest more, and then that was kind of like what I now started to use to travel more and just reinvest back into the channel.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Quick question. And forgive me if I'm re-traumatizing you. Have you ever come close to death or real injury during during filming? Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

Well, many times maybe I might have, but maybe I'm very oblivious because I went to the coldest city in the world and we got stuck on a lake, on a frozen lake. What do you mean? Okay, take us back. I went to the coldest city. It's a place called Yakutia in Russia. How cold was it? Minus 64 degrees Celsius. Yeah, like if you stay outside for like more than 10 or 15 minutes, you can you can get you can actually die. People actually freeze to death and die there. So you black man, you took yourself there? Yeah, I took myself there. Because of content. Yes. We have to push the we have to always. I think I'm somebody who just likes to push the needle, like, okay, you know, we can do this too. So so yeah, so yeah, when there, then there was there's a there's a leak. So imagine Lekivo. And imagine every year during a period, Lekivu freezes, and that's the only way when it freezes, it now becomes a highway. Yeah, so that's a little what happened. But in that highway, there are still some parts of it that are not as strong. Fully frozen. Fully frozen. And then we're driving there across that in the middle, and then our car got stuck, and we're stuck there for how like hours, man, like maybe like two or three hours. And then we had to. I know obviously I'm in Russia. They don't speak the language. The driver that was with me, I was I was telling him, Are you sure we should go here? Because they were like, it was like, yeah, nothing's good. You know, Russians, they don't they have no fear. I don't know, I don't know where this guy is coming from. So we have got stuck, and then we had to you know how to walk like over like an hour to find some what's the name, like some of the security in the area at the other side of the village. They now brought one big ass towing towing van. I've never seen that kind of car before. It has like the tires are like taller than me. That's like six tires. So that's how they pulled us out. And then we're not gonna. And were you did you stay in the car? No, we're outside. We had to try, we were trying to push the car. So for me, why I said that that that might have been one was what if you know the car kept sinking, or what if because cars actually so it was actually sinking? Yeah, it was it was sinking. Because as we're trying to, you know, just like when the tires on the mud, it keeps digging, digging, digging, digging. And we don't know how how like that could just go down. People actually have died driving across that road when they get to some places that it's not fully formed. And you did you know that before that?

SPEAKER_03 49:39

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SPEAKER_03 51:08

Yes. That was I saw that. That one I refused to watch.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Really?

SPEAKER_03 51:14

I was like, no. You know, I I I watch a lot of content. That's when I was like, you know what? This one I'm not going to do. Because you you went to, I think there was a tribe. Maybe tell us about that. The Hadza tribe of the Hadza.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

Yeah, Hadza. So they're like the last few hunter gatherers. So they don't live in like they live like remotely. They hunt. That's how they eat every day. They hunt with dogs, they go into the bush every day. So yeah, so I went there. I spent like four days with them in the bush and were just exploring. And it was very interesting. It was stressful. It was probably one of my most stressful videos ever. When you say it's stressful, what do you mean? Stressful in terms of like filming it. Because I'm filming, I'm also filming, I'm running. These guys, we literally went into like the bushes or jungle or whatever for like eight hours. Like we had to, I spent like almost four or five hours walking into the place, and then and the thing about them is that even if you're following them and you're filming, they don't really know, they don't care, they're not gonna wait, and they are doing what they would do normally. So when they see an animal, they just start running after it, and you have to run with them because if you miss them, you get you get lost. You don't know where you're in the middle of nowhere. So we had to do that. So there's even a mark on my head, there's a spot here that a ton, one of the tons almost like entered my eye when I was filming. Because I was going, you know, you're going under like turns, bushes, and all. So yeah, but we move. We move. We move. So yeah, so yeah, that was that was uh that was a cool one. I think I like I like to if I find something really fascinating and interesting, it's it's it makes for good content. And I I actually enjoy filming stuff like that because it's different from everything else. Yeah, you know, like I could come and do a video on Rwanda or do a video on a country, and it's just like okay, you know, it's cool, that's a different segment. But sometimes when it's those interesting stories where it's like it'd be a tribe or something else, it's it's just more interesting. It's extreme but interesting.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Do you ever feel okay? So, one, I'm going to ask you how does monkey taste? And did you know it was a monkey? Yeah, I knew it was a monkey. Had you ever eaten monkey before? No. Was there did you lack anything else to eat?

SPEAKER_04 53:34

Did I lack anything else to eat too? Because was there options? No, there were options. There was monkey, there was like some, they call it hyrax. So like all these rats that are in the bush. They didn't catch any baboon that day, though. There was barbons too, but they didn't catch that one that day. So they had they caught a hyrax and they caught they caught a bird, they caught a small bird. They caught different things on different days. There wasn't a day they even caught a they took this they caught a python. But I've eaten that before, so that wasn't new. That was interesting. How does monkey taste? Tastes like meat, but it's like it's like a different type of meat. It's like meat, actually. It's like what no, like the taste. It's it's a little bit sour because obviously the way they did it, it does there's no flavor, you just roast it. Any salt? No, no salt. They don't have salt, they just eat it like that. They just roast it, they don't have salt, they don't have anything. They don't have any of I think the only other thing that they probably get is like maybe they get water from somewhere, but they don't have salt, they don't have anything. They just eat whatever they roast like that. Well, and then they smoke, they smoke a lot of weed too. Yeah, because they're the bush, there's weed everywhere, they find it good weed. Oh, then they take honey, they know how to like find trees. Because even in that video, we found honey. They go to like dead trees and they break it and then they extract the honey, like maybe like bees had kept the honey there. And that honey was I tasted that honey, it was it was something else, man. It was like that was my test first time tasting fresh honey. It was like bees were even in the honey, so it was from the tree. We cut it and it was an experience. Did you ever get did you get sick?

SPEAKER_03 55:16

No, I didn't get sick. Your stomach is that that solid.

SPEAKER_04 55:20

My stomach is not even solid because I actually have stomach issues a lot, right from time. But so you just go to the toilet and then you're off, you're fine.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Do you do you worry? And and this is maybe maybe it's maybe you're protected from it because you're you're obviously black, a black African. Sometimes when I see white filmmakers come to Africa and and maybe go to these tribes or the batwa, sometimes I feel like they're exploitative? Yeah, like I it sometimes leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth that oh, look at these uncivilized Africans, oh my god, look at them. They they don't have salt and they you know. Do you ever worry that especially in a world where people will use say something like that to then say, oh, this is why blacks are like this? Do you ever think, okay, do you ever feel a sense of responsibility in terms of how you showcase, especially these these tribes and and people?

SPEAKER_04 56:37

For sure, for sure. I feel that every time, I think for me, that's why I see myself as a storyteller. I'm trying to tell stories, and I'm more of taking you on a journey. I'm not making any like, I'm not saying, oh, these people are like this. I'm just showing you my experience and sharing my journey with you. And I see the world as a place that has, you know, there's so many tribes, everybody has their own tradition. The way they do stuff in Mexico is very on the way they do stuff in Kigali, from the way they do stuff in Lagos. So it's just having an open mind. So I think that's what I always try to make my viewers understand is like just have an open mind. Everything you're seeing is it's just for you to have a better understanding of the world. That's literally what it is. Because you're not meant to even judge or be like, okay, this is how people say things or this is how they should be doing. So going to Hadza and seeing people in the bushes, yeah, I know that, yeah, maybe if like if somebody that was white did videos about that, depending on how they told the story, it could look more like, okay, it could be, oh, you know, maybe this is how Africans live and they live in huts and they live like this. But I'm coming from the perspective of like, yeah, I look like them. We all look very similar, and I'm like spending time with them. That's why I even at the ate the monkeys, and I think they even gave me like one of their when they were smoking. I was like, okay, I should think just to just make them know that I'm not, I'm I'm I'm coming into your world and um I respect you. Um yeah, so it's not like oh, I'm it's not like I'm at a distance and I'm like, oh, you know, these guys, and just feel me. And I'm telling the story about them and how they live and what they do and having conversations with them.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

So no, there was uh there was a big, there's a colleague of yours. He went to, I think, was it Benin? Yes, and and and and you know, to to showcase a certain African culture. I don't want to mention the name, but I I think you know the the conversation. And he showcased a culture in a way that the people from that culture were saying that was a that was a wrong way to depict us. Yes, you're black like us, but then you're framing the way you framed us. Is as if you know you're not giving uh due respect to our culture, you're not giving due respect to who our belief system you are treating us as weirdos. You know, and and and sometimes I wonder how do you nav like you've you've talked about it and how you navigate it, and you say, okay, I really want to be a to be a participant.

SPEAKER_04 59:22

Yeah, because because what do I know? What do I know? I don't know anything. Like I'm just I'm learning. So I will never approach something from the mindset of like, you know, like, oh, this people should do this thing this way or that way. I just see myself as a learner. I'm like, oh, okay, this happens here. Oh, that's fascinating. Like we're having a conversation earlier, and I think you told me about the fact that, you know, like the electric vehicles in Rwanda, you like they don't, you don't, you don't, um, they don't pay import duties and VAT. And like, that is actually so interesting. That is so cool because that makes more people want to use electric cars, which helps the the you know, helps the reduce CO2 and all those things in the air. And just even also even exploring, I went to the Yambo cows place and I was like, oh wow, cows, because the cows in Nigeria we kill we kill them and we eat them. There's nothing like cows decorating.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

So for people who don't know in Yambo who might be watching this in Nigeria, so Inyambo are royal cows. Yeah. Right? And and Rwandans, they don't they treat them almost like members of the family. Yeah. Right? It's not just to be eaten.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

Yeah. And I found that really interesting because this were big cows. So as I was looking at them, I'm like, man, this is meat. But I had to respect the when I had to understand, because they don't even I don't I don't think they don't milk them, they don't drink the milk, or like they are just preserved. So that is the culture. And if they've been practicing this thing for like millennia, multiple years, who am I to now come and be like, no, I should be eating that? Why? That that's very myopic way of seeing the world. So I see the world as like very open, and I'm just a learner.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

You know, you've been everywhere from Las Vegas to Siberia.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:14

I've never been to Las Vegas yet. You've never been to Las Vegas?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:17

I feel like also you've been to New Orleans, you've been to what?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:20

I've been to Houston, Atlanta, I've been to Arizona.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

So you've been to the different states, yeah, as well as you know, uh South Africa, Namibia as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:32

I've been to Namibia.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Okay, so you've how many how many countries have you gone to? I think 40, almost 50, 40 something. 50. Yeah, it's not a lot. So uh it's it's not it's not few. I I don't think I've gone, I've I don't think I've been to more than 10. I need to up my game.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:51

I just want to ask, you're gonna say it it depends if you're somebody who I think travel is one of the best ways to learn about the world, but I think it depends. Not every not I believe everybody should travel at least, but I don't feel everybody needs to travel to 50 hundred countries because traveling is also very stressful. So I can say it because I know now, I didn't know before. So like traveling is good. I recommend people should travel, but I don't feel like because there are some people that are like, oh, you know, some people ask me, do you want to travel to all the countries in the world? I don't have that dream. I didn't want I don't even have the dream of traveling to all the countries in Africa, but I just want to see as much of the world as I can.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

I'd like to ask you whenever you travel, right? So one of the things that I've seen is that you don't just showcase the place, you showcase the people. Yeah. So let's talk about people. Is there a one place, is there one person, one person story that even up to today stands out for you?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:58

I need to think for this one. One person's story that even up to today stands out to me. That's hard because I've I've done a lot of like videos on many people and I've met a lot of people. So when you say one person, you're talking about just a single person, not a tribe, not a girl.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

Because if you think about it, right? You've done when I'm not anything like you, but I've done over a hundred interviews. Right? So I'm not going to be able to close my eyes and immediately remember all of them. Yeah. But there's one or two that just that that just made me feel something.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:46

I think maybe actually probably maybe one of the first when I first started doing interviews with people, I think I had some. I had a Kenyan guy who was living in South Africa. I met he started a gym. I think he came from like a very poor background, and he was able to kind of like build himself up and able to start like a gym. And it became like one of the top gyms like around that area. And yeah, it's a gym, it's not something so crazy, but his story was very interesting. Uh, because what we did was we just sat and had a conversation like this. I didn't even have any footage, I didn't even go to the gym. I didn't, but people resonated so much with the story because the story was actually really deep. It came from like nothing. I think he lost his parents, he lost his it was such a very deep story. He didn't have brothers, something happened, and then he was able to do and build off of that. So that was actually my second or third interview I actually did back then in South Africa. So I think if I go back, because the most recent ones, I think the deep, the deeper ones was when I actually started back then. Or the ones that I can remember that stay in my memory.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:56

That's so interesting. I mean, when you think about the different characters you've met along the way, it's a fellow East African who lives in South Africa.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:08

Yeah. That's that's interesting, actually, true. Because yeah, I've met so many people. But I think the the first ones were the most memorable. When you do it too many, like a lot of times, I think sometimes it loses its magic because you're used to it already. You're used to hearing this story, that story. When you're hearing that story, kind of story for the first time. Because I also did a video with the founder of Shadrum. That was also very like I think she lost our dad. A dad like killed her mom or something like that. And then that was like very crazy too.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

How you know, again, us talking off of air, you know, uh, we're talking about how do you just keep the fire? Right? So at the beginning, it there's passion, yeah, there's the creative energy, there's the juice. Now it's become a job.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:04

But it cannot be just that. You know how do you how do you how do you how do you how do you ensure that the light does not die in your eyes?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:21

I think you just have to keep reinventing yourself. You also have to learn to one of the things I've been learning recently, because this kind of like has happened to me over time, where it's like I'm I definitely don't feel as passionate about like making videos or travel as much as when I started. It's very different. Then if you told me, oh, get on the plane, I'll just ginger and go. Nowadays, not as much because of many reasons. But I think for me, it's like one, reinventing yourself consistently. Two, taking breaks, actually not doing that thing. You have to step away from the work sometimes and go and do something else. Because one of the problems we have as creatives is like if you're a creative in a space and you start to do it, just out of love for doing it, and then it starts to make money, it now becomes something that pays your bills. So you want to do it more because you want to make more money and get more fame and be more wherever, and then it now becomes a job, and it's not as interesting anymore. Because once you turn something, one of the easiest ways to kill a passion is to turn it into a job, literally. And I've definitely experienced that. So I'll say second one is taking a break, and third one is actually finding other hobbies. Like, okay, taking a break and then using that time to find other hobbies. What are your hobbies? I'm still discovering them. I think there are new things I'm trying out. Like, I started, I've been trying to learn how to swim since like forever. But I know how to swim, but I don't know how to float. So I started doing like some swimming lessons. I've started playing paddle. I tried playing paddle when I was in Nigeria. That was cool. I enjoyed that. Watching basketball. I actually watched basketball. Yeah, you don't you don't like sports. I don't watch football. You're the one Nigerian I know who does not like football. I don't watch football. So I'm like, okay. Then I watched uh this, you know, the Bowl and watched Rwanda play and against Morocco and watched them also win the cup. And I it was interesting because I was invested in the game. I've never invested in anything. I don't care if Asenal wins or Asenal. I don't care. I I don't rep any club or any team. But I think for me, it was even more of like, okay, like I was I found it very interesting and exciting to watch. I was also very short, you know, within seconds, people are scoring. Football, it takes forever. They can play a whole 90 minutes match before one person scores. It's long for me. So maybe I might actually start watching more basketball, maybe like more NBA uh matches and all. So yeah, I'm just being open to discovering like more things and learning. I think I'll I'm just open to trying out more stuff now.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

What what do you think is the most misunderstood African country?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

The most misunderstood African country.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

Misunderstood.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

That's that's when you say misunderstood, that means it's like people think it's a certain way, but then it's a different way. I would have said I would have said Namibia, but I don't think Namibia is misunderstood. I just think Namibia is just not as explored by people don't know, like when I went there back then though, that's like five years ago or four years ago, people have people haven't explored it as much. Because when I went there, was it it was like a different world entirely. But when you say misunderstood, I don't know. I I can't really say which one is misunderstood. I don't think I've been to anyone where it's like I thought it was something, but then it wasn't that thing. Because I have a general sense of most countries, maybe Eritrea, I haven't been there yet, but I heard people keep saying nothing like it's very reclusive.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:53

So you know, I I think you know what I would have thought you'd answer? I thought you'd say Nigeria.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:59

I would have said Nigeria, but I don't think Nigeria is misunderstood.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

I think it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:03

I don't think so. Why do you think it is?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:05

So I I believe that there's the I don't know if it's a parable or a saying, right? So like if you get an elephant and get three blind people, and each of them is at one side of the elephant, if it's someone who's touching the trunk, it'll be an elephant is a tree. If you're touching the tail, it will be like a little snake. Yeah. And if you're touching the tusk, you'll say that the elephant is hard. It's hard. And anyone who doesn't know Nigeria or experience Nigeria only knows Nigeria because of some information they've received.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:44

You've gotten from one side. That's true. That's actually true. Now that you break it down, true. I thought about Nigeria, but I think sometimes it's hard to really see it because I'm from there. You know, it's easier. Like, I can't see my face now, but you can see my face. You see my face more than I see my face. Like, if I spend more time with you, like you see my face more than I will see my face in a day. So it's much harder to see my own face. I don't know if you get that. I know. So I think because I'm Nigeria, I thought about it, it crossed my mind, I was like, where? Because yeah, I feel like you when you explain it this way, it makes so much sense. So yeah, maybe Nigeria. Because yeah, we're we're 200 million people, different tribes, over 250 tribes. We are so different. It's like multiple countries joined together. Because the north is so different from the south, and it's so different from the east. It's very different in terms of like even the landscapes, even the weather. Like the weather across Nigeria changes from rainy, cold to hot.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:45

Yeah, you've been you've been to so many African countries, and I think you go there for travel, but then you also are looking at them and and actually experiencing them and seeing things that maybe other people don't see because you're now in that space. Yeah what's what's the biggest opportunity in Africa that people still don't see?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:12

I think the people. The people is one of the biggest opportunities in terms of I feel like Africa is a place that has so much you know human potential and human like capital. I'll use Nigeria for example. I think Nigeria's biggest export is still its people. Because if we are given the right leadership, the right environment, we can actually do. I think Africa will actually be probably the richest continent in the world. Because we already have the resources in the ground already. It's one of the places that is blessed with so much resources. Like everything you want to think about across the world, we have it here. Whether it's gold, diamonds, cobalt, everything, we have it. But I feel like we just don't have, you know, we know leadership is a big problem, which is actually that's even the major problem. And so most countries in Africa don't really know where they're going to. Or they are being led by people who don't know where they're going to. Which is why we have what we have, and you know, we have to depend on all these other outs outside players. I don't feel like we need if they were to shut all the borders of Africa from the world and we had the right leadership, we would survive. We will survive beautifully. Because we're surviving before everybody came.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

And actually, we're thriving.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:36

We're thriving, actually. Sorry, not surviving. We're actually thriving before everybody came.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:40

So, you know, I I'm a huge fan of analytics. Analytics kind of helps me understand the truth. You know, people can lie. Yeah, data does not lie. Yeah, no matter how much. So, so so so looking at your data, right? Because I'm pretty sure that's something that you do quite quite often. When you look at your day, you know, you've spent years looking at the data, looking at audiences, and trying to make sense of what you're seeing. Yeah. What have you learned about Africans from your viewership?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:14

What have I learned about Africans from my viewership?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:18

From your analytics, from your data point?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:20

I would say I've learned about some of the countries that have the highest when it comes to like watching stuff on YouTube, and just countries that are more exposed when it comes to the internet. And those countries are in terms of numbers, it's Nigeria, South Africa, Kenya. When it comes to Sub-Saharan Africa, those three countries are the ones that have the, from my own point of view, and from what I've seen so far, highest internet penetration and audiences when it comes to social media. Even I even got some feedback from iShowSpeed stream. His highest viewership, live viewership stream was in Kenya. He had over 250,000 people live while he was in Kenya. He didn't have that number in Nigeria, he didn't have it in South Africa, but they were also very close. What does that tell you? It tells me that we're having a, you know, we're having a rapidly uh young population of people who are being exposed to the internet and all these tools and social media is rapidly growing, which means that there is a lot more that those young people can do and create, they can create more value using those tools of the internet, using AI, using all these new new inventions. So it means that we are rapidly advancing technologically in terms of like exposure. Because you have to first be exposed to something first before you can actually now use it to build. If you don't know what AI is, you won't even be able to use it to build anything or extract value. So, so yeah, I think Africa also has the highest number of young people in the world, I think highest young population in the world. So there's gonna be with the right things in place, we can definitely change the face of the continent over the next 50 years.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:02

Talking about young people, and with all the knowledge you have now, with all the suffering that you've gone and all the money you've invested, yeah, and everything that you've gone through to become to be sitting right here in front of me. Would you advise a young person to become a YouTuber?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:27

If that's what you want to do. If that's what you want to do, you don't necessarily have to do travel. I wouldn't advise you to become a YouTuber. I would advise you to try to build a brand on any of the platforms on the internet. It doesn't have to be YouTube, it could be Instagram, it could be TikTok, it could be Twitter, it could be any of that. But I would just advise you to at least build, build, like find your own, have your own space on the internet because it helps in so many ways. It helps you basically move beyond borders. Like I went all the way to Russia and in Yakutia, there's a guy there who watches my videos in that city that I've never been to before. And he doesn't even speak English, but he said it uses the auto-transcribe stuff and just watches the subtitles. Wow. That was crazy. So I I and I feel for me, looking at it from the perspective, YouTube is one of the platforms that allows your content to spread across the world. Because it's not geo-restricted, it's not like Instagram, Twitter, all of them they lock you in. If you're in Nigeria, they lock you. So if you're on Twitter in Rwanda, you mostly see stuff in Rwanda. Like now that I'm here, I'm seeing Nigerian stuff, then stuff in Rwanda. When I go to Kenya, I see Kenyan stuff and stuff in Nigeria, because obviously Nigeria is like my biggest audience on Twitter. So, but YouTube is not like that. I can make a video here, and people in one of the videos I made, the coldest city in the world, I had a lot of people watch from the US, but another country that a lot of people watch watch from or watch it from was also Vietnam. I've never been to Vietnam in my life. That's that's so so yeah. So I have my viewership is like spread across because you can see it's from the numbers, different countries, Dubai, Saudi Arabia. I've never been to Saudi Arabia before, but I have viewers there. But on Instagram, you don't see that you're just you're restricted to the location, except the content goes viral.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:27

Let's talk about AI. Because one of the things that you know everyone is trying to AI proof themselves, because AI is coming. AI is already here, it's already here, it's already here. And I I always wonder what it means for creatives? What does it mean for songwriting? So, songwriting we already know. The AI is now singing, and you can't actually sometimes you can't tell. You can't tell, yeah, you can't tell you, even for videos now these days, right? So then the question then is do you think in an increasingly AI world, people like me and you, right? So me who does sit-downs and talks to people, and then you who actually take us on a journey, do we do are we AI proof?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:14

I think I would say the whole conversation around AI is also like the conversion around probably, I'm sure we'll be back then when people used to communicate with like birds and put like letters on birds to send it to pigeons. Pigeons, yeah. So maybe somebody, when maybe the new telephone or whatever was invented, people were like, oh wow, are we like what's gonna happen to all the messengers and stuff? And then when the internet came, people were like, oh, people stop watching TV and people stop using telephones and all of that. I feel like at every point in time, there's just gonna keep being an advancement, and you we can't actually stop it. The only thing we can do is to evolve and find figure out a way to use those tools to be able to achieve more. So I feel like for creatives, it's figuring out what can these tools do for you, how can you make your work faster and better?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:09

But do you think human beings will be replaced? Be replaced. So if you go and see the gorillas, yeah, for example, yeah, and you take us along, yeah. Do you and and we watch you, yeah, and that's how you make your living. Yeah, do you ever see AI creating a character, and then we just watching it?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:39

You actually think it's very possible because these days you can't even differentiate. I can literally write in a prompt. I can take my face, put it on like some AI thingy, like my pictures, and have it interact with gorillas. But then it would not be human. Yeah, it will not be human, but the question is would we know? Oh, it's not a matter of whether it's human or not. There was a there was a time when this AI thing started, and I was like, okay, maybe just be authentic, like just you know, like there's some things that I feel like at this moment AI can't copy yet, but in the next five years, with the with the weight of advancement and with the way things there are the Instagram pages now, there are YouTube pages that it's just all AI.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:21

And sometimes you can't even detect whether it's what I guess I guess AI will not go through what you went through in Addis Ababa airport, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:29

Like that's stories, those stories cannot be storytelling. Has always existed for hundreds of thousands, millions of years. It's from the Egyptians writing stories on you know, on the music with cavins and with the early men drawing, it has always existed. So it cannot just suddenly die. It always exists, it's just like what form will it exist in in this new phase? So the best storytellers can use AI as tools to help enhance their work. But I don't think anything is ever gonna erase them. Maybe it's erase many of the people who just make like random content that doesn't really have any solid value, and yeah, that's that's bound to happen. It's always advancement in technology will always let the people who are not willing to evolve die off. Like, look at Nokia, look at many of all these companies that were like Skype, they eventually die off. It just clears the way for the new, the old has to go. Jeez. Hopefully, I'm not part of the old me and you are not part of the old. Well, hopefully, we're able to find ways to evolve. Because I think about it generally, like a lot of times, like you know, not about AI, but just how to constantly keep evolving. And for me, it's like one of the ways I found is like constantly having an open mind and being able to learn and not just relying on just your knowledge that you've had before. Because if you do that, you're just gonna be one of those.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:54

Oh, back then it used to be this. Last question, Tyler, because you know you you've given me a lot of your time and you need to jump on a flight to go back to white man's land. If you were starting all over again, yeah, young Taya, yeah, starting all over again in 2025 with everything you know now, yeah. What would you do differently to get you to where you are today?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:31

The honest truth is I don't think I would have done anything differently as much. I think some of the things that maybe I would have because I feel like everything is all part of the things that I didn't do differently was what made me know like what I know now. Like I feel like life, like one of my favorite um like you know, like quotes from Steve Jobs is like, you can't connect the dots looking forwards, only backwards. So I can look back now and be like, okay, maybe I should have done this or done that. But if I did this, then this wouldn't have happened. So what should you have done? I think when it comes to like content creation and YouTube, I should have probably doubled down on what was working. Because when it comes to YouTube and and this is like advice for maybe a lot of the creators watching, if you do something that works and you enjoy doing it, then try to do more of that. Because that's that means that's what people want to see more of that from you.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:25

What would that have been for you?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:26

So for me, for example, when I started doing like my I think I did some real estate videos at the beginning, people liked that, but I I was just I left that and then kept looking for other things. I was in tutorials in this. I was like trying to just force what I wanted on people. Like I was trying to do, okay, I like this thing, let me do it, and maybe they'll like it. But which is also one of the ways to get to know what people like, because sometimes too, you can't just rely on you just you did something or you made a type of video and people like that video, so you just keep only doing that. But I feel like if I understood the strategy of YouTube, which is like if something works, figure out how to double down on it. While you're double down on it, don't also forget to experiment with new formats, new ideas, and then just build both of them as you go. I definitely would have grown my channel, baby, much faster.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:14

But I think that's one. Yeah, but every other thing, I think another one too is just also finding other things to do apart from YouTube, like being interested in other things apart from YouTube. Because YouTube is such a especially the kind of YouTube we do, it sucks your energy a lot. Like you have to, because think about it. A video on my channel to make it produce it from idea to final video is like it takes a month, a whole month. Because like a week for planning, a week for the travel, then like at least a minimum of two weeks for the editing. What part of that process do you enjoy the most? What part of the process do I enjoy the most at this moment? Maybe just coming up with the idea.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:07

I I thought so too.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:09

Coming up with the idea, I just played with it in my head. I'm like, okay, maybe this will be cool. Like now, even for example, I have a Rwanda video coming out very soon. So yeah, you guys should stay tuned for that. So just visualizing what the video is meant to be before I even actually came here to film it. So yeah, that was the cool part.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:29

Yeah, that's super cool. My brother Taylor. Yes, sir. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure and absolute honor. Thanks for having me. Um maybe I'll come and visit you in Lisbon. Maybe I'll cut. Actually, now that now, yeah, now that uh they let us in, yeah. When when's the best time to come to Lagos?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:51

To come to Lagos.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:52

Please don't tell me dirty December.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:54

I will not tell you. I will not tell you the dirty December. No, I don't feel like going to Lagos dirty December. Last December was actually my first time actually being there during 30 December. And that's because I wanted to film a documentary. Yeah, 30th of December. And then obviously I wanted to just experience it and see what it was about. But I would tell you to come anytime, about any time actually, apart from December. December is cool if you're a party person, but if you're not a party person any time of the year, it's definitely cool because we don't have summer or winter. Just come anytime. You'll still get the vibes. Lagos is Lagos any day, anytime. And you can experience anything you want to experience at any time in the year. It's just that in December, there's just more people, and it's actually more packed. So yeah, come through, come through to Lagos.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:35

We'll do, we'll do. I'll be waiting for you to send me an invite. I'm sending, I'm giving you the uh no, no. This is not honest. I'll be waiting for an email. Ah, Sunny, I'm I'm leaving Lisbon, I'm coming to Lagos for a couple of weeks. Okay, come and we hang out and let us enjoy. Okay, okay, no worries. I'll send you an invite. I I now have your WhatsApp.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:05

Okay, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I think so. And I hope Ronda has treated you well. Yeah, it has actually. I'm looking forward to the video. This video I might actually edit edit it myself. You mean the other ones you don't? I don't edit my videos, most of the videos myself. Uh, because I have editors, but I think this one I might probably because I've actually seen the video I made the first time I was here, which was like seven years ago, and seeing what it is now. Yeah. It's such an interesting perspective change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:34

Fantastic. Thank you so much, Taya. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Kigali Marriott Hotel, for providing a venue for the long form podcast to record. At the heart of Kigali's hospitality, Kigali Marriott offers everything from luxury stays to premier event spaces, fine dining, and top tier conference facilities. Keep up with them at Kigali Marriott on socials and visit their website www.marriot.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

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