What are self-regulation and dysregulation?
What does dysregulation look like in introverted kids?
Join us for a very informative, pack of tools episode!
Austin Hudson, a Licensed Professional Counselor that specializes in children and teens explains and demonstrates how to approach introverted kiddos, what could be some strategies to help kids regulate themselves emotionally, and physically and how the prompting hierarchy connects to all that.
Austin would love to help you more, so check out his website.
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What are self-regulation and dysregulation?
What does dysregulation look like in introverted kids?
Join us for a very informative, pack of tools episode!
Austin Hudson, a Licensed Professional Counselor that specializes in children and teens explains and demonstrates how to approach introverted kiddos, what could be some strategies to help kids regulate themselves emotionally, and physically and how the prompting hierarchy connects to all that.
Austin would love to help you more, so check out his website.
Related episodes:
Did you find this podcast helpful?
RATE & SHARE the playground Talks podcast with friends and family!
You are also welcome to join me on Instagram :-)
New offer!
Free Parent Talk around Healthy Boundaries.
As a certified parent coach, I can help you own your parenting style!
Want to connect?
Join the Bonding Boost Newsletter (We'll keep it short & sweet)!
I am really glad to have you hear. I likes your videos so much I get it. And it's so smart. i think we typiclly talk about the kids is not ready to do it. thank you for that. Kids that tend to scream and yell and, you know, do those kind of extreme behavior. And we talk about them. But today I want to focus about the interpreter kids, because I know you have a lot to say and a lot to share about them. So I want to start with asking you, how does this regulation look like for a kid who is an interpreter?
Austin:Yeah, so first I'll kind of go into. Basically how to assess anybody. So, so when we're looking at any kind of mental illness or anything like that, not in the sense that kids are having mental illness, but in the frame of dysregulation is we're looking at differences of regular patterns. So for example, me being excitable , is different than someone else being excitable. So what we're looking at for is a baseline difference. Just like when someone's depressed, they could be sleeping more. They could be sleeping less. Theoretically, , it could be any level of sleep. Right? It's that it's different. So it's the same with kids who are introverted is you want to observe what's going on with them so you can see, oh, are they acting differently than usual? So when we go , to regulate. We're trying to look at the differences when they're regulated versus when they're dysregulated. I try to break it down into two categories. As I look at emotional regulation and I look at physical regulation and they're kind of different things. So emotional regulation is like the ability to let a feeling, be a feeling instead of a feeling, being an. So, , I feel angry. That doesn't mean that I'm going to necessarily scream at somebody. It's just a feeling that happens for me when it comes to physical regulation, that would be like physical coping skills that help activate our parasympathetic nervous system that help calm us down. There are healthy coping mechanisms that adults have that we'll have for life. It never changes. Part of my philosophy as a therapist is we're always kid nothing changes, except for our ability to cope with our emotions. We still need certain things that never goes away. It's just, we manage better when our needs aren't met or we manage better in meeting our own needs as we get older and have more insight. So for example, physical regulation, the way to describe it is, , to adults about their kids and give them empathy. It's like, it's. Having to sneeze and never being able to sneeze or , like wearing a really itchy sweater and you can't get it off. It sucks. So when a kid is really upset or they're moving out of their comfort zone, that's what it feels like. It's not great. And when you combine that with a lack of insight, because they are kids and coping skills, it can get out of hand very, very fast. So we only want to shape. Of regulating if it's not pro-social., an example of this would be, if a kid's way of regulating, Is getting their alone time and getting, , visual input and looking at something or audio input and listening to music or talking to themselves or what have you. that's okay. Right. People need that sometimes when it becomes not pro-social as if they have difficulty communicating that, or maybe they're leaving in the middle of a game or things like that, where other people there are implications to other people in the social gathering. So when someone's introverted, we're not trying to get them away from what they need to create. We're getting to them to be able to regulate pro socially. So there's a huge difference. It would be like an adult in a relationship, , say I'm, you know, with my girlfriend,. And I need alone time and we're watching a movie. I'm not just going to go turn the TV off and just walk out of the room. Right. But I do need that alone time. That doesn't change. I could say, Hey, you know, I think I need alone time right now. I really enjoyed our time. I'm going to go take a long time for three. Something like that. So we're working on how to regulate pro socially, not necessarily taking how they regulate a way cause that's part of them.
Tammy:Got it. So I hear a lucky, you mentioning the part of communicating or needs such as I need my my alone time. Actually it starts with being aware. So that's something that his parents, we need to work a lot to label those emotions
Austin:That's the difficult part. Right? So, basically a lot of parents ask me, I think we're, we're talking about kids four to 10. So we're talking about kids who are in concrete operation. There is zero understanding of abstract ideas. Like the idea that a feeling is different than an action to a it's. Like it, they don't get that., so parents will be like, you know, how can I get my kid to get this? And I'm like, you can't really,, kids are very cause and effect oriented When it comes to us, our responsibility is to model to them what these things look like. That's paramount in how anybody learns anything it's modeling. So we're trying to be able to, when we're dysregulated manage our own feelings, control our own facial expressions and respond in neutral ways and only strategically give insight into emotions So the way to describe this is, if a kid is doing something that would. Not pro-social in the sense that they're kind of being mean to you, , or they're, yelling at you and they're saying words to you, you're responding in a neutral way. You're not saying, Hey, you're being mean to me that's not necessarily very neutral. We would say something like, when you use a loud voice, it makes me sad. So we're saying the loud voice is what makes me. Not you using it necessarily. Now you being loud, the loud voice loud voice doesn't even necessarily mean you're angry. It's just loud, no interpretation necessary. And we're doing that intentionally so that the kid understands that, Hey, when I use this loud voice, I think it makes people sad and people are more likely to have self-awareness and insight when you're neutral. For example, Let's say a boss, right. And you have a performance review and, and I'm going, Hey, you know, here are the numbers. This is what it looks like. It seems like they're not meeting the mark. So what can we do? What can we do to solve this?, you're more likely to take responsibility for the numbers then if I go, Hey, so, you're not working hard. Clearly, you're not meeting your deadlines. You're not doing this. You need to change something cause you're not working out. You're more likely to be defensive and be like, my boss sucks. He's rude. I'm not going to do anything. So basically we would have our boss, , in that situation, it would be easy to. The boss, we would have little self-awareness when someone comes at us in a way that elicits a defensive response, when they're interpreting, instead of giving a neutral response, when you give a neutral response, you would elicit self-reflection and insight. You give someone the space where they see cause and effect. They go generally, they're pretty goofy and fun. And now they're not what, what could I've done in the equation that made that, the case. So that would be why we would, respond to. In a neutral way.
Tammy:Can I pause it just a second? What I'm getting is that instead of labeling the person, like you're not okay, or you did it's wrong, you talk about the fact, like you raised your voice and then it made me feel uncomfortable. So it's just the little part of you that I don't feel comfortable with. It's not the whole, you, that mix me being uncomfortable. would that sounds okay.
Austin:Yeah, and that's called externalization. So it's a huge thing., so it's saying like, I actually don't like allowed voice, no matter who the person is, this has nothing to do with you., I respond this way when the loud voice happens in any setting. So we're actually giving kids insight on the difference of, of behavior. For example, with an introvert. The way they show their dysregulation is a lot different, right? It might not even be a loud voice, but we're still responding based on the same principle. There's a lot of indicators of somebody being dysregulated, going back to physical regulation and emotional regulation of what we talked. Physical, , dysregulation tends to be a fight or flight response for most people. So it tends to be an activation of the sympathetic nervous system, which makes us not think at all. We have extremely little insight at that point. Especially with kids who have already limited insight due to being a kid. So when it comes to the. We'll notice when it's a fight flight or freeze. So if you think about it, if we're trying to group in general terms, extroverts and introverts extroverts may generally have more of a fight response. You're getting more of these loud, aggressive behaviors,, when it comes to somebody who's introverted, you may get a flight or freeze. So that's where you're on. The lookout is, when they were playing before and they were feeling well comfortable. Now you're getting a flight. Now they're leaving. Are you getting a freeze? Now they seem kind of locked up. And so you're wanting to observe the behaviors behind that. So maybe they tighten their face a little bit their jaw kind of tightened. it could be that they kind of backed up and you see they're kind of neck and head move back., it could be that , they started looking down. They could, start to look away from. People make a little less eye contact. So you're wanting to have an astute observation of when these things. And when it does change, you're going to want to soften and give the kid some sort of insight or regulation that patterns off of what they are naturally needing. So you're going to make their dysregulation of pro-social connective experience. Number one. So they're not lonely and their feeling and number two. So they learn that they can have that feeling and manage it with someone else and manage it in a slightly different way. So., it's important in this context, there's a million different ways to look at this. I choose to look at it through the prompt hierarchy,. I'm trying to look at. If the kids introverted, where I want to meet them in the prompt hierarchy versus if the kid's extroverted where I want to meet them. So for example, someone who's introverted, the first prompt would be like gestural. So I'm just going to make gestures. I'm just going to mirror at you., that's going to make you comfortable.. So there's a few different kinds of input., there's proprioceptive, tactal audio, visual vocal, vestibular., so proprialceptive would be hard touch. Tactical. And you'll see kids who are kind of rough housing doing that tactile, you'll see soft touch. Those are kind of those little cuddle bugs, where they just want like a lot of little touches, little things like that. You got your audio input, which is kid who, kids who love sounds, who love impressions, who love hearing voices who love like gun sounds or what have you., and then you've got your visual, which is,, seeing something cool. Seeing different patterns that are interesting or shapes or colors. And then you've got vestibular, which is people who like roller coasters or dizziness or swinging side to side or rhythm, , movement., so a lot of times you'll notice that introverted kids, they will need something like maybe audio input, maybe a little more tactile input. They'll need a more visual. And the visual input is simply just being present with you. It's just you being there. It's them seeing you that's enough input that's regulatory. So if you're overdoing it and you're giving them like proprioceptive, when they're not, that's just going to add to the dysregulation. So you're concerned with what regulates the child. And if you do one of those, sensory things that don't regulate them, it'll actually probably disregulate them. The thing about these sensory things is like anything in life, it's usually going to regulate them more or disregulate them more. And that's the challenge is you're like always kind of fighting that battle of the two. So with, with the kid, like that, say, they're stepping away, I'm noticing them looking down a little more. I'm noticing them get uncomfortable. I'm going to think, okay. They might need visual input right now., I'm going to mere them. They're probably in fight or flight. I'm going to try to get them into a calmer place by not only mirroring them, but also modeling. So I'm going to mirror their behavior, but I'm going to model neutrality in a calm disposition, I call it a calm. So I'm not going to go up to him like, Hey, what's going on? Because as soon as they see my, brow and my jaw tighten, that's very threatening. So if I'm going to go over to them and I'm noticing during this place, I'm going to get on their level. I'm going to go down as to appear non-threatening with certain kids, you can establish a physical connection. Like you hold there. And you look at them,, that could be disregulating for some kids, right? So you don't have these blanket rules, you have to figure out what the kid works with. And then I'm also going to consider what prompt I want to give them if I think they're dysregulated. And again, if it's an introverted kid, that's probably going to be a gestural. I might go over to them just look at them and kind of, maybe I confused because confused is kind of neutral., so I'm kind of going, Hmm. And then I am going to possibly like, look over to a space and kind of maybe not, but we could go over there and then we might walk over there and then they may sit down and then I'll kind of mimic the way they sit and I'll just chill with them for a second. And I'll kind of let them get to a place. And then once they get to a place where they're a little more regulated and they can talk a little more, I'll increase some input that I'm giving them or some prompt I'm giving them. So now I'm going to give them a little more verbal. So I'm going to talk a little more, but when I'm talking, I'm using a very quiet voice and then tell him what I saw and not in an interpretive way, but in a very physical way, in an neutral, observant way. So I might go. Hey, I noticed you looked down back there. I think that maybe when you look down, you may need a break., and then I'll probably just to cement the impact of it. I'll probably model what I saw them do. So like I saw you kind of go like, like this. So I think when you do that, you may like need a break for us to just sit together. And I like sitting with you. So I'm okay with doing that. I would like to do that with you. So now I'm normalizing what they need. I'm not acting like they're crazy for needing it. I'm going, I get that. And then I'm also going, I like to be there for you in that time. You're not forcing me to do that. I enjoy that. And that's going to make them feel relieved just in general. So that goes into, we just focused on right. The physical aspect, like we've talked about the physical distributor. And that's when we move over to the emotional dysregulation and regulation and how they pair to. Because when I'm giving them the physical regulation, they're more likely to get emotional regulation as a by-product when I'm giving them emotional regulation, they're more likely to accept physical regulation as a by-product. So they work together much like our physical, our soul, or mind, body connection, whatever you want to go into. It's incredibly important to connect them together. So when I'm normalizing the behavior of pulling them aside, and I like to do this with you, I'm connecting to. And I'm giving them validation that that's cool. And then I'm going to give them input about probably how they felt there. You know, I noticed in there you probably felt stuck. So although these are not true feelings in the context of therapy, , it's a language kids can see. So that's what I'm more concerned about is making something, you know, it'd be like, I'm talking to you in English and you speak Spanish, I'm probably not going to use the most intense English vocabulary that would probably not work. That would be for me, not for that. My goal is to communicate, not to look smart. So I'm going to say something like, well, it seems like back there, you felt stuck. You felt worried, you felt overwhelmed. And, , I'm only making that interpretation after I noticed they're calm because when you're trying to make interpretations, when someone's dysregulated, it's not going to go over well. So for example, if I'm extremely hungry and someone goes, Hey, you're hungry right now. That's probably not going to work. I'm probably not going to go. Oh, you're right. I am angry. I'm going to calm down. I'm not hungry anymore. That's not going to work. Let me get my. And then you can tell me, Hey, you know, I think he might've been a little angry back there and then I'll probably go. Yeah, it was cause now I'm me again. I'm out of that fight or flight state I'm out of that dysregulation state.
Tammy:So I get something really smart of you. First of all, Dysregulated interpreter child is typically not talking, running away or avoiding social contact when he's at the moment. And then as a parent, the thing that I am able to do is. follow him because he certainly needs some kind of support. Then I can approach him and then just ask him, can I be with you? It's just not getting to talking, not getting into an investigation. What did he do? What happened or are you here? I'm just, can I be with you? And that's it. Be with him and then to find this sweet spot of what kind of support he needs this, he need this strong hug or just the tickling or so that's something that when he's not upset, I can ask. And until him, like we use the red zone. So when you were at the red zone, what can help you. Sometimes as a parent, you want to solve the thing right here right now, but the kids is not ready to do it.
Austin:So when, you say the red zone, right, that's an important meaning that you both established that you both communicated, that's going to make them feel more relieved in that space that they know they can get out. It's just like anything,, what are you doing when you're going into a jungle? Right. You're marking the trees to know how to get back because you don't want to be stuck in the. If I have to get back, I can, I may not use it, but I'm feel relieved now and having more fun, exploring, or more sane in this space. Cause I know I can get out. So that's a huge indicator is you can even have it be non-verbal. If the kid is really overwhelmed and they have trouble talking in that space, you can make a non-verbal, it could be a thumbs up. It could be here. It could be any gesture, , that would help them get out because that's the prompt, right? It's a gesture of. You don't even have to get into verbal Were so used to communicating verbally as adults that we think that's the only way to communicate when in reality. Most of your communication is not verbal. Most of the meaning people gather from you is not what you say., it could be how you walk, could be how you act it could be your face. And then also, even if it is verbal, most of that is actually not what you're saying. It's how you're saying it. I mean, have you ever looked at a dog and not that children are dogs, but, they're both very cute and innocent and sweet and lacks some insight. So you ever looked at a dog and you go, you could go. Like, I love. They're going to love that you could say, like, I hate you. They're going to love that you could go. I love you. They're not going to love that because it's about how you say it. So, and it's the same for anything. So with kids, it's the same token when you're giving them this calm, neutral response and this calm face, you're telling them, Hey, I can handle your feelings. This is, this is no problem for me. This is normal. And also you can handle your feelings right now. You can make this face. This is possible, but I'm not forcing it on you. I'm just simply being with you. And then eventually you learn how to be with you. You learn how to be with you. that. would be the goal.
Tammy:So you gave some strategies for regulation, but can you get into more details in regard to, how can we help you develop his self regulation in terms of age range?
Austin:Yeah. So basically in this age range, right, four to 10, that's going to be extremely low., just because our nature of kids is that they just lack a lot of insight or self-awareness at that point., which is understandable. So basically what you're trying to do is plant a seed repeatedly., basically the way I work with these kids is behind. And oftentimes there's some sort of like dirty word around behaviorism, , is if, you know, you're kind of dehumanizing somebody, but I'm simply looking at it in a place of expectation. I'm not going to have high expectations or adult expectations for children. I'm going to understand things are cause and effect based, and that I'm planting seeds over time in a behavioral way until it becomes second. It's just like when you're dealing with someone with panic disorder, the, you know, the panic disorder has become behavioral at a certain point. So you're your body goes when this happens, I do this and we get these neural pathways that we use over and over. I heard an analogy that was amazing. It's like skiing the same way down a hill over and over again and deep snow. It's eventually going to be very hard to get out of that place to actually move that's our neural pathways. So I'm giving them an option of a different pathway and I'm trying to reinforce it over the course of time, enough to where it's actually even hard to leave that pathway in. So, when I'm giving them strategies and I'm giving them insight, it's going to go right over their head for at least the first 20 times, because they're not in a place learn it, but now they're getting used to that happening. They're getting used to that association. When I step away, they come up to me, we do this together and that becomes comfortable. And then they're going to predict kind of what I'm going to say after that. And they're almost going to say it for me as if it's a mantra. So we're, responsible in a lot of ways for giving the kids insight over the course of time, by simply being consistent for them, by giving them a predictability in life, because that's all anybody wants is consistency and predictability. So when we're giving them that, we're telling them, when you do this, this is what happens. Here's the cause and effect you like, see it's circling back the cause and effect. Here's the cause. Here's the thing. Cool. You had that cemented. And then when we get to a point of abstract, abstract thought and also morality, even when we're getting more into, just to give some context of what I'm thinking, this would be, PJ's theory. So, when, when a kid gets to maybe like, I think it's around 11 that's when you start to get to formal operation or, 12. So you get to their ability to have abstract reasoning and all of these other things., when you get to, , the psychosocial development, , of Ericsson, that's where you're starting to get to identity versus role confusion. So now they're starting to kind of learn about their own identity and that they exist in the context of other people's. And they're also starting to think about it abstractly in that sense. And then you get to Kohlberg's stages of morality, which means their morality is starting to be dependent upon what they want done to them, their existence, amongst a society, their own values. They're starting to have values and identity. So we're going to encourage that exploration within them. And we're trying to cater to their self-concept., a fun thing about people is that., it can be fun and not so fun is when we have our self-concept locked. That is locked in. That is what we want to view ourselves as. So. The kids are no different. I have one kid I work with, for example, who's 13., and when he feels angry, his response is to kind of raise his voice. And it's because He feels abandoned, right? That's the abandoning of feeling abandoned happens before feeling angry., so what I do with him., I actually want to cater to a self-concept that he's very. The last thing I'm going to do is say you're incapable. He wants to be taken seriously. Right? He wants to be seen as an adult. Obviously he's not an adult, but what is he thinking? Adult is capable, smart, responsible. So I'm going to say he's that thing. And I'm going to act confused if he does something that doesn't align with that. So I'm going to. I'm kind kinda confused. I know you're really responsible and I know, , you have things really figured out., and also I noticed that, , in this space, you know, it's difficult for you to do this thing. How can I support you on this?, it must be some problem with how things are being done outside of you. So what can we change? How can I support you? And so that helps with the externalization. When a kid can reason when they're getting to the point of. So when kids are in a inappropriate age, , we want to reason with them and we actually want to include them on our own dilemmas., and we can do breathing exercises to actually use breathing exercise for young kids. But kids don't really like doing the, you know, the four or five seven technique in which we're really focusing on the exhale to activate the parasympathetic nervous system, to calm them down,, to make them feel relaxed., they don't, they're not too keen on organized breathing. So a lot of times what I'll do is I'll actually have us like sing together or like, , and this is how I'm tying in audio. As I'm making it fun for them in an input regulation fashion. So we could sync together. Uh, if you notice, I'm, there's a lot of air moving out, which is great. That's going to relax them, or we can actually make sounds back and forth together in a funny way, but I make sure they're elongated sounds. So the rule is it has to be seven seconds or it can be like who can make the longest sound. So I'm making these games incorporated. Breathing some tricking them into breathing, but I'm also responding goofily. So for example, if you're noticing a kid is dysregulated and they're breathing heavily or whatever, you may go over to them and you'll actually maybe model the game without even saying anything, any words to them. So you could kind of go over to them and go, okay. Austin demonstrate voice 1, and I'm acting really neutral. I'm acting relaxed. I could go over them and go, Um, or I can make sounds like, demonstraion voice 3 and I'm, it seems insane. Right. And parents constantly, a lot of what we're working on is getting them goofy because what is goofy say, goofy says I'm relaxed and I can handle this situation. It's cool. Some kids it's patronizing. So I tell parents to definitely monitor that. like I said, it's catered to the, in individually. But when I'm doing so I'm trying to model for them to do that, or I can go like, Hey, you know, I notice you're upset. Can we play a game together? Um, okay. I want you to make the sound I make, and then I'll make the sound you make. So now it's reciprocal. So I'm making them do whew. Maybe it's like a person falling and it's funny. And then their sound may be something that's actually not exhaling, but I'm allowing it because they're doing my sound and we're going back and forth in our separate canning play. We're connecting and we're also helping them regulate. So it's a lot of, it's like trying to make something interesting. Versus when it's someone, when a kid's like 12 or older, they'll kind of understand the principle of what you're saying. So they'll kind of understand like, Hey, you know, like this, these breasts can really calm me down. Can we breathe together? I really want to connect to you. We can treat them more like an adult in that., some kids it's actually really fun to continue the game in that sense., a lot of regulation is also kind of understanding what , you can do in the path of least resistance. So starting with the least resistance and then moving out from there. And that includes the prompt hierarchy, right? Starting with gestures, not saying anything, just being there, that could also include being non-threatening and being grouped. As the start, just no resistance to what's going on. That's catering to their self-concept. You're giving no resistance. You're rolling with it. In the context of, , a car being safe, a car is safe because it can accept impact. It's not because of how strong it is. It's when it's designed to actually crash, it's designed to fold in a safe way. So that's exactly what I'm doing when kids are doing that. I'm actually. Not causing any resistance, I'm rolling with it. I'm folding with them because that stops the destruction that makes it safe. And then eventually everyone's okay., doing so in a neutral way as to establish a boundary as well., and I'm encouraging them after they get out of it. I'm giving them that self-concept care in that characterization of like, Hey, you're a really like calm kid. Like , , you handled that incredibly. You're a very respectful kid or you're a really smart kid or whatever I need to say that gives them that affirmation. I kind of want to go back to like recognizing the regulation. And kids by recognizing the regulation in yourself,, which is important. Your own insight as an adult is incredibly important. So little behavioral tools, like I said, cause kids lack some insight. So, , the behavioral tools you can use is like priming, shaping, giving them replacement behaviors, which include. First and then behaviors, because that's helpful for you think about this, like priming for you knowing I'm going to see my in-laws. If I didn't want to see my in-laws is a lot more helpful than, Hey, my parents are here, sweetie. We're having dinner. I would be like, whoa, that's jarring. I feel shocked by that. I didn't have a chance to prepare for. And,. when it comes to shaping, that path of least resistance is for example, if a kid's yelling, when they're angry, they've learned to yell when they're angry, they've made that association already. You're not just going to get them to. Sit down at a table when they're angry and be like, I'm angry right now. I felt angry about this. No, no, no. You're taking what they're doing and you're sculpting it like a sculptor., it's not going to look immediately like a human being at first, it's going to be a big block and then it's going to be a block where the arms are and then it's going to go detailed to detail. That's the concept of shaping. And that's what I would talk about when we're having reasonable expectations of them based on what they can do. So for example, with one of the kids, , I do parent training a lot. It's one of the things I really enjoy. So one of, one of the kids,, when he gets angry, he's in that neural pathway loop of. Um, and I yell, like I hate you or things like that.. So our goal is actually next time is to not stop him from yelling, but maybe getting him to yell I'm angry., cause that's moving towards what we would generally like. And then eventually we can say, Hey, can you just look at me and tell me, like, instead of like, oh, I'm angry, we can just do like, I'm angry. Then we might go to. And then we could go to something different than that. We're having reasonable expectations, but every single time he's doing that, we're actually reinforcing him and encouraging him for doing that. Hey, when you yelled, I'm angry. I really appreciate that. I appreciate you telling me how you feel and that matters to me. And I appreciate that, you know, something along those lines. And then we're also constantly a behavioral technique to help regulation is having a replacement for. If you're trying to do this, I may not be able to let you do that, but I can give you this. So I'm considering you, even if I can't quite do it, having a boundary, if I'm canceling the date, I'm you know, that's my boundary, I'm busy., but I'm not just going to be like, Hey, too bad, cancel the date. I'm going to go, Hey, can we reschedule? Cause I'm going to consider you and I'm doing that. So that's a first then behavior. Hey, well, first I have to do. But then we can do that. That's an example of like a replacement behaviors. Hey, I know you want to hang out with your friends., let's do homework first. Then you can do that first then or a replacement behavior would be like, oh, your music's too loud. Instead of me being like, turn it off, I might go, Hey, you know, I'm noticing the music's too loud. This is a real scenario, by the way. Hey, I'm noticing,, the music is., is pretty loud while I'm working., And I understand, you want to listen to your music so you could, we could turn it down 50%, or I can also give you headphones. So make that choice,., which is going to I'm included, I'm being. But I'm not saying you get to just play the music as loud as you want, but I'm also giving a replacement behavior, which says I'm also considering you. And that's going to help with regulation. That's going to help with conflict deescalation., and then I'm also gonna validate how they feel. If they're responding to me in a way I call it the quiet voice. You're giving me a quiet voice. I will gladly explain what's going on. I will gladly treat you like an adult. I will gladly cater to your emotions are gladly. Hey, I get, you felt disappointed that I get, you want to listen to music. I get that. I validate this so that all, all that combined, and that goes back to the. Physical regulation and emotional regulation that goes back to helping someone feel emotionally regulated. As you're priming, you're giving them insight ahead of time of what's going to happen. What you think will happen. You're shaping their behavior. You're reinforcing whenever they're doing any sliver of a behavior, you'd like any little bit of it, even in attempt. So they don't feel discouraged in it. They feel encouraged by you. They feel like you view them as a great person, and that creates this self-fulfilling prophecy for them. When you have this positive attribution. Which is what we generally give to our towards ourselves is like, Hey, you know, I didn't do well at work. And it was probably because of this wasn't me. We can do that with other people. And when we do that, we're giving them encouragement, this positive attribution, and it's really successful and couples, the Gottman method, um, it's really successful, but we're giving them encouragement or giving up self-fulfilling prophecy where next time they are about to use. Well, my parents said I was a really calm kid. I was a really respectful kid. I was really responsible kid. Maybe I wouldn't yell. Maybe that's not what I would do if I was that we don't need to tell them that they intuitively realize that. And they'll make that choice because we responded in a neutral way to elicit self-awareness as to not label nothing. I trust your awareness over time. I trusted I'm letting it go. I'm giving you a neutral response. You're smart enough to get it when you get it. And I understand that it may not be the expectation when you're. When you're 13 and something clicks in your brain and your abstract, it's going to be there. so I guess we could end there.
Tammy:Yeah, I liked the most the part where . You said. As a parent expect from your kids, as you validate, is filling to move from yelling to next time knowing how to regulate himself, see that evolution with his response and his regulation strategies. So I really love it. It's brilliant. So let's say we started using the strategies you just mentioned., what would be the red flags that kids might need an external help that maybe I don't get my child and I might need myself or my child needs an extra.
Austin:Yeah. So when to get professional help, I would get professional help is immediately when you're noticing that you are triggered by your child. So meaning that when your kid's in fight or flight, you're going to fight or flight most of the time. So rule of thumb for, , for behaviorism in general is about 70% of the time. Samantha behavior. So if you're only responding in fight or flight, 30% of the time with your kid, that's cool. That does the job. You're consistently showing them that you actually don't usually do that. If it's getting above that, like half the time you're responding with triggers and it's difficult for you to manage., yeah, I would seek professional help I'm validating them. And I'm also giving them tools. And what happens when you have two. You feel relieved. It's like marking the tree. You feel relieved that you can go to a place you can retrace you're in control, and you're going to feel more relieved around your kid. What's that going to do for them? It's going to make them feel more relieved. And when they feel more relieved, you feel more relieved. And all of a sudden we're in this peace cycle where we contribute to each other's peace instead of the pain cycle where we contribute to each other's pain. So, , I would say if you're noticing yourself consistently get triggered by your child and you're having trouble managing., your own regulation then, you know, it's, it's probably time to see someone and I'll gladly encourage you in that process and validate you you'll feel some relief from that. And then you'll feel a little more comfortable and equipped with tools, and then I'll continue encouraging and shaping you when you're doing your best. And then over the course of time, I'm modeling to you what you can do to your kid, to.
Tammy:That's great., and I really resonate with the party. We need to understand ourself as a parent and to have more tools, it gives us more confidence. And when you have a plan, you don't feel hopeless. You have like, okay, I have a plan and that's the process. And I know my vision is and that's why I'm doing this podcast.
Austin:Yeah, no, exactly. It's incredibly healthy.
Tammy:yeah. It's, that's awesome. Anything else you want to mention
Austin:yeah., , if anyone wanted , to see me or, you know, use my services, , my website is Austin Hudson therapy.com a U S T I N H U D S O N. Therapy.com my info's on there. I love working with kids and parents and doing parent training. I do exactly what I talked about now. If I didn't, that would be strange. And , I wish everyone the best , , in parenting.
Tammy:well, Very much for all of your strategies and wisdom and the insights. It was so good.
Austin:Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks.