#10 What Are The 6 Types Of Personal Boundaries? With Dr. Dowtin

When your kid claims he is too tired to shower or not hungry or not willing to clean his room, what boundary is he/she trying to set? and how to respond to that?

This episode's guest is Dr. Dowtin, Ph.D., LCPC, NCSP, RPT.  She is a black cisgender registered play therapist, licensed clinical professional counselor, and early childhood school psychologist CEO at PlayfulLeigh Psyched, which is a private teletherapy practice. Dr.Dowtin is an early childhood specialist and trauma therapist, passionate about serving historically marginalized children and families, disrupting the generational transmission of trauma, and facilitating healthy social-emotional development from conception through adulthood.

In the episode we covered the 6 types of personal boundaries, what’s the best timing to introduce a boundary,  why is it important to model your inner conversation, and why you might check your emotional capacity before responding to your child.

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Related episodes:

• Why do kids “misbehave”? 
• Why are personal boundaries important? 

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Transcript

Tammy: 0:00

Hi Dr.Dowtin how are you?

Dr.Dowtin: 0:02

Hi Tammy. I'm well, excited to be.

Tammy: 0:05

I am so excited as well., we actually had a boundary episode already, but you were so genuine and you're willing to talk and dive into what kind of boundaries we have. So I'm really excited to have you here and let's get started., how do you see boundaries and what type of boundaries are we talking? Dr.Dowtin: Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about general boundaries first, and then we can maybe think about what it looks like with partnerships and parent child relationships so in general, , we typically think about there being six different types of boundaries in general, right? And so you have physical boundaries that you can set. You can have your emotional boundaries. We have time. Boundaries. We have sexual boundaries, intellectual, or, , mental sometimes we'll call them mental and then material boundaries. And so when we think about these in the context of parenting, we very often will use some of those physical boundaries. So if you're parenting more than one child, you have boundaries around. You have boundaries around like kicking so aggressive behaviors. Those are touch. Those are physical. We are setting. Keep your hands in your own space. Keep your hands and feet to yourself. Things like that., with children, we also have material boundaries very often. There may be certain things in your house. That are valuable that you don't want broken, or they can't play with them in the same way they would play with their own toys. Or maybe they're visiting someone in the family who doesn't have a childproof home. Right. And so you set a boundary around these material things, and we have our time boundaries, which are probably, As people with children, one of the most common, because you're trying to like get them to appointments and, you know, we want to have a nap time scheduled if we can, and we want to do all these things. So we're setting these limitations around our time. Right. We only have a certain amount of time and it can be really good for children to have those warnings when it's a time boundary.. And so instead of at the very last minute, so. Okay. We have to go to the doctor's appointment and, you know, they were playing and they were excited. You're going to give some type of warning around that time. Boundary is, you'll say, oh, we have to leave soon for the doctor's office. You have about five more minutes to play. And even if they don't have a concept of time yet, then you're going to, you know, give them one more warning, just like, oh, you have just one more minute left. So we're going to start cleaning up or we're going to start doing these things so that it's not a burden. and then we have with the sexual boundaries, typically we want to teach that to children too. And that's when we think about overlaps with physical, but it's that, you know, safe touch body zones. What's okay for who to touch when, or like our bath time zones and people will call those, like, you're the bath time spots that only. Parents can help with, or grandparents or, you know, people who are helping you take a bath, but if they don't help you take a bath and you have to set a boundary around them being allowed to touch you in those places. And then our intellectual boundaries. I like those a lot because those are almost always about us, the individual. So it's the things that you set in place. What, how do I respect others? How do I show my children? What are the things that I need to be doing? Right to make sure that I'm showing up in the way that is appropriate for this parent child interaction or for the outcome that I want later, so that your intellectual boundaries are usually all about you and not the boundaries you're putting on other people, but the limitations and the boundaries that you put on yourself in order to interact with the people that you care about. So I liked the intellectual boundaries. and before we dive into it, I want to go back and ask you. Let's say. I am tired or my child is tired and saying, well, I'm tired. I'm not willing. I don't know to go shower at the moment. What type of boundary is it? And also, how would you respond to it?

Dr.Dowtin: 3:53

Beautiful. So I would think of that as their emotional boundary, which I'm glad you brought that up because I don't think I listed it, but I don't think I gave an examples. So that would be an emotional boundary because they're expressing tiredness kind of as an emotion. Like I'm exhausted. I don't feel like it. I don't want to go, you know, take this bath time and go to bed. so I would validate that. you know, something like, I hear that you're really tired. We've had a long day. So validate that, give them that space if you can. and then you would put in what the boundary is. So you would say, but it's actually time for bath now. And then you set that like, if then, so if we don't do bath now, then we can't have the story time after bad. or I won't read you the story after bath and the strong thing about this kind of boundary. you want to make sure that it's something that you can enforce, often as well-meaning, as we are, we will think something like, oh, this sounds good. Right? Like, okay. And then we don't realize that I'm not going to fill out. Doing that, or I'm going to feel guilty about not reading the story afterwards. I'm going to read this story afterwards. but then if we do that, then it's not actually a boundary. It wasn't clear. Right. We didn't, we weren't able to enforce it. And then it becomes really confusing later. We're going to be in that cycle. With every time they're tired. We say this, that it drags out and then they still eventually get the story the bat goes in or where they don't even get the bath. But I read them the story anyway, because I felt bad about it. You know? So I would say people laugh at me, but I would say you got to check in with yourself first that's when you look at your intellectual boundary. Okay. Can I, do I have the capacity to do this? How can I make this interaction? And if you're tired and you're like, I'm not going to be able to enforce this boundary. It's going to feel like a battle. No, one's going to win. Then you have to decide, okay, well, what do I want in this situation is can we skip that tonight? Am I okay with that? Right., and that's okay too. So allowing yourself that flexibility, because one of the things to remember is when you set a boundary, you have to be able to enforce it.

Tammy: 5:55

If you don't set in hold the. You're not being consistent and then it doesn't work. Yeah, I get, and I also like the point that you raised saying that guilt comes up a lot in our way as parent to set the boundary because whenever we feel guilt, we step back and then there is no consistent that there is no holding the boundary anymore and the kids get it. And then, well, we just talked about reinforcement. So the reinforcement is that it. Worst probably cause the, get the kids. Got it. I totally get that. I want to actually go back and ask you also. So in terms of my kids says, well, mommy, I'm not hungry at the moment. I don't feel like eating out. What kind of boundary is this?

Dr.Dowtin: 6:44

Yeah. that's a good one. Cause we could look at that as either a physical they're actually, you know, maybe they're really not hungry or we can look at it as an emotional. So, you know, I think you had to talk about behaviors,, and kind of looking at the function of the behavior or why the behavior is happening. So there's a little bit playing into there. You want to be figuring out. Is this because they just don't want to go to the table for some reason, is this because they'd rather be playing with this preferred item over here. And like, if we eat, then I can't play with my toy. Like, what is the function? So want to look at that? most of the time with kiddos and then young children, , depending on the age, They really aren't hungry sometimes and their appetites fluctuate and change. And that can be really hard for us as adults when we're trying to think, like, I want my child to be healthy. I got to make sure they have balanced meals. You know, you're trying to think of all those things. And we've, we forget that the appetite cycle changes over time for children and we don't have a good, most adults don't have a good understanding of childbirth., or even little things like children can get, full off of drinking water or drinking your juice. Right. So maybe they really weren't because they were sipping on their juice throughout the day, or sipping on water throughout the day. And it's like, oh, well, I'm, full right now because I've had all these liquids. Right.

Tammy: 7:59

Full of sugar. that makes you feel

Dr.Dowtin: 8:02

Exactly.

Tammy: 8:04

You know what? you remind me. Once my colleague told me that no child is starving to death in front, of a plate full with food. And that's Exactly. what he has said It's also in terms of timing,, sometimes we are hungry, but the kids are not. So I like how you said to respect their possibility. There they are really not

Dr.Dowtin: 8:26

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about it, right. That the human body is set up to, like want food. Like if you're hungry, you salivate, the smells get you excited. Right. So if the food is good and they're turning it down. It's like, well, maybe you really aren't hungry. or again, maybe this toy is way more enticing. you know, like maybe whatever you're doing over here is really more enticing. And sometimes I think that we don't think about the fact that your affection and your attention can be so powerful. So maybe it's just like, if you were playing with them or if you were reading a story with them and you're like, oh, now it's time to go eat. But like, this is, I want to be with you. Eating means I have to sit in my own space and whatever the case may be like, I want it it's been, this was fun. Right. And so I would think about what are ways that we can, you can kind of decipher that for yourself to see what's really coming up., now if you've figured it out and it's not, because they're actually not hungry and it's the time like we eat now. So we want to think about,, consequences in, within some of these boundaries, right? When you're holding the boundary. So we have our natural consequence and you have a logical consequence and you may already know about these, But a natural consequences, something that happens with that intervention. So for example, if they don't eat now, they're going to be hungry later, It's natural. You didn't do anything. Just eventually our bodies get hungry. That's a natural thing that occurs. so you could just stay and wait out the natural consequence and just let them know. Okay. Well, if you don't eat now, then, you know, food will go away and you'll be hungry. That's you're not intervening in any way. That's just natural. and then they can kind of learn about timing of food, their body, listening to their bodies, all those different things. Then there's a logical consequence. And so with logical consequences, those are the things that we are putting in place with as an intervention. I will say that a lot of times, if you work with children ahead of time to help come up with some of these logical consequences, then you're going to have a better buy-in later. And what I mean by that is you may be able to have conversations with children, usually as young as like three, two and a half and three, like it's time to eat, but you don't want to eat, what do you think we should do about that?. And just see what they say and see if it, and then if they don't like what they said, and you're like, mm, what about this? And you kind of have a little bit of a conversation about it, right? So it's again, thinking about what are you willing to enforce? they know like old school parenting. It's like, oh, well you go to bed without dinner. And then usually one of the parents would be. Feeling guilty and like sneak food up.

Tammy: 11:02

yeah. Actually reminds me of something that I asked my son the other day, he's three, almost three and a half. So I was like, do you think your Tammy's hungry? And he looked at his time and he was like, mommy, you're silly., my tummy can talk. I was like, but you can have this conversation with your tummy and let me know. So it's, I was trying to make his. Own awareness of how much he's hungry or sometimes they're also makes hunger and, and when they're thirsty. So I like how you say to kind of start and develop their own wearness to their body. So , it's a great thing. And I'm trying to go back to physical boundaries is more around. My own room, like with my daughter, she's almost 11. And so I respect her own boundary in her room and I don't interfere. And like, I don't force her to clean it or anything, but I'm using. Natural consequences, which is, you know, and clean eighth, it gets dirty. You might have more bags. And then once there is one coming in, she's like, maybe I can't stand it called the pets control. And I was like, well, you might want to consider making it to look nice for us. so anything else to dive into the physical boundary

Dr.Dowtin: 12:23

um, it's about your own personal space touch., really good for children in preschool because they usually talk a lot about physical boundaries and in preschool and kindergarten, because kids don't know how to keep their hands to themselves.

Tammy: 12:34

I know one of my kids like, like strong hogs and like he's being, he liked to be touched and the other person said. Please don't hug me. I don't like it. And so this is another thing you can communicate with your kids. It's just, there is a range of communication and showing your love in terms of touching your kids. And Yeah, as a parent, sometimes we are left to hug them

Dr.Dowtin: 12:58

Yeah, I love the, you know, and it's becoming up a lot. I love this in society now, but just teaching children about consent, so physical boundaries include. It's one of the things that we're teaching. So, you know, maybe sometimes we'll have things like, so I used to be a preschool teacher and sometimes we'd have siblings one time. He had a set of twins in our class and, they fought, they tried to, , physically fight each other all the time because they were allowed to do that at home. So we had to set a physical boundary. Their parents had one that was you. Two can fight each other physically because your siblings and you'll work it out and you figure it out. And so the parents were fine with it, but we were like, well in school, don't hit our friends. We don't hit our classmates. we talk about safety and we don't, physically fight. even though your, siblings in school, this is the boundary we're setting the physical boundaries of once you've put your, you know, your foot across the threshold at school, we don't hit. And if you do hit, then, you know, we're, we're hitting in a consequence. One of the things that we will give children for physical boundaries is options. And so asking other children. want to greet you,. Can I give you a hug, a Or high-five We might do some of those, some give them a choice. and then the person can choose like, oh, I want fist bump sounds nice. Or I want a high five or no, thank you. Just a wave,

Tammy: 14:15

Like the leveling of how much you can be in touch with It's great. so in terms of intellectual boundaries that you started talking about, and I took the conversation to other spots, so let's dig into it. What kind of intellectual, how would you set an example as a parent for intellectual? Right.

Dr.Dowtin: 14:35

very good. So I, people laughing. I use modeling., most of us have an internal voice, like an internal monologue where we like thinking about things. Should I do this? What kind of like talking to ourselves, but in our head, right? for parenting or working with our children, it's really helpful if you make that in our voice and our monologue external sometimes because you're allowing your children to see and hear, what that process is like. And, then they learn, how to better do it. And they learned that the decision-making. So for an intellectual boundary, let's just say, when you were trying to learn to give your daughter her respect and her physical boundaries for her room, and you're like, well, she's telling me to get out of her room, but it's my house. And her room is a mess and I really don't want to remember my house. That's a mess at the same time. is that respectful. I want to be really respectful. So I would kind of have some of that conversation and then I would decide, well, what am I able to enforce? What feels good for me? so okay. If I, I would talk this through, if I, leave her room alone by. Do what she wants in her room. And then we maybe get bugs. Oh, there's natural consequences. She might start cleaning it up when she sees a bug or two and we can kind of control a bugger to in our home. So I can be respectful of her by allowing her that physical space. And then I'm pretty sure you have. You probably, maybe you don't even know it yet, but I'm pretty sure you have a limit. So maybe if rats came in, you'd be like, okay, all right. It's now. This is a clean room, right? So you have that limit set, you know, a few bugs. Okay, fine. But once furry creatures get in the house that are unwelcomed, then we need to change this, this thing. Right? So that's your intellectual boundary? What do I feel comfortable? I feel comfortable with allowing a few bugs in the house. If it happens that way. I'm going to be able to be respectful of her because I'm not going to be yelling because her room is a mess or I'm not going to nag her about this. We will be able to have a better interaction and I'm comfortable with a few bugs, rats and rodents, not comfortable. We'll then have to set a new boundary. Does that make sense?

Tammy: 16:56

Yes, it is. I like it. Like you have your own level of boundaries as a parent for whatever you can tolerate and whatever you can't, and then you might need to communicate it with your child and say, as long as this is the consequences. Then you'll deal with it, but when it's getting a bigger consequence and that other people in the house are being affected by that, then in this case, I am sorry, but I can tolerate it anymore. Is that

Dr.Dowtin: 17:24

Yup.

Tammy: 17:25

I get that. And what about sometimes there are the disagreement, like she would say, I think something and then I would say, well, but I see differently. So. Sometimes it could go into a power struggle, like who's right. Who's wrong. And I want to hear your piece of advice on.

Dr.Dowtin: 17:45

yeah, power. it depends on the situation for example, Let's just say your daughter loved rats. And thought they were cute. What if she says, no, I don't see it that way rather really cute. Like they could, maybe I could have a few pets or they could be my friend. Like I think I should be allowed to. You let my room get as messy as I want, even if rats come in because rats are cute. then at that point, it's not going to be a power struggle because you say, okay, I would still validate that. That's what they're thinking. That's what they're feeling, because you know, your thoughts, your thoughts and your feelings are your feelings and it's okay for you to have them. So I might say, I hear that you really think that rats are cute and you really want the opportunity to let your room get as messy as you want, even if they're rats. So it kind of paused there, let her have that. but in this house we don't allow rats. they carry diseases . So if I see a rat, I will, whatever the boundary that you're going to enforce. And I like when people do contracting, , especially looking at 11 year old. and what that just means is that we've written this somewhere. We both know that it exists. Right. We've set this kind of clear. I verbally said it, but it's also in writing. So it has some permanence to it. it also helps with your memory. Cause sometimes we have. few boundaries and we're like, what did I say would happen if this happened? You know, it was like kind of good to write it down, for the things that are like really serious and you immediately need to be consistent about.

Tammy: 19:08

so would the intellectual, I get that if it said just a conversation, we can agree to not agree, and this is me respecting her different opinion, but then you also talked about the difference between power struggle and setting boundaries. And. What I got is I am, as a parent needs to ask myself, is it something that I cannot tolerate? And that means that I'm really trying to holding a boundary versus I'm asking myself, is this just something that bothered me because I said so, and she should, , align with it. So this is kind of, how can I distinguish for myself? Where am I at? And then to move forward after having this inner conversation,

Dr.Dowtin: 19:52

exactly. I also, late to remind parents, if you can operate from a value system, whatever your values are, When you're interacting with your children and ha, and thinking like, is this a power struggle? If this, whatever you want to say, does this. Is this in some way going against or aligning with my value. It wouldn't, whatever the specific value may be. Because usually it's parents, there are certain values that we're trying to, we want them to like, oh my gosh, I want you to have this when you grow up, like, I want you to, be kind to others or respect other people's spaces or, Live a healthy life. You know, there are certain values that you really want to instill. And so sometimes when we're in a power struggle, it's because it's attacking our value that we're trying to. And still in our children and we really want that. So if it's incongruent with your value, then maybe it is something you need to set a boundary for, but it also means that your value should have been stated over and over and over in some way, shape or form to your children. It's not fair for us to keep it up here. They need to also know.

Tammy: 20:56

I live the connection between values and boundaries. Which is something that you made it really clear. Some of the boundaries we're setting for ourself and for our kids is because we have some kind of value that we want to live by. For example. You just mentioned like all the routine that we talked about, hybrid sex showering, it's actually the value is, being clean and having healthy life. Same goes with foods. It just the same thing. It's like I'm setting those boundaries because I want my kids to have the best nutrition in their body. So I really love the connection. Thank you for

Dr.Dowtin: 21:33

You're welcome.

Tammy: 21:34

Awesome. I want to move on to, the thing about time boundary, which I think. It's kind of a simple one. It just, if my son say, I want to play with myself now, then I should just respect that and say, okay, go ahead. Or he says, I'm not willing to play with friends now. Also it's some kind of time-bound right.

Dr.Dowtin: 21:57

Um, I'm not willing to play with friends now or the now part yes. It looks like it's time, but actually I would think of that one probably as either emotional or physical. Cause I would think about that as, I don't want to be in space with other children right now, or I don't have the emotional, capacity. I just want to be with myself. So. But time. We really want to think about our scheduling, um, how long things happen. when things yeah. How long when things happen. So if it's, going to, that you have, you have an appointment or you're trying to get to a birthday party or school. Exactly. You're trying to get to school on time. You're trying to, um, you may have homework time set up, right? Like, after school, whatever you might have. Things that have to happen or that you really want to happen around or certain amount of time, but then also the, how much, right? So like you have one hour of screen time, And the boundary is, if you go over that screen time, then I'm going to take the tablet away or I'm going to whatever the case would be. So those are the, time ones that are, and it is pretty simple because it's just like how long and when something occurs.

Tammy: 23:08

Okay, I get that. That was simple. Yay. I wonder, actually asked you something we know nowadays that the long-term. Effect of punishment is not good. So we're trying to avoid those. So we're using the logic consequences, natural consequences, but then the best way to approach our kids nowadays, as far as I know, and you can rephrase it is using more of the compassion and curiosity. It's like asking, what do you need? What do you want? And then kind of find in compromise our child needs. Archer desires. And my question for you is if I have a kids range is three to 11, how do I implement? Or which one do I pick to implement? Could I use this, you know, kind of discussion thing with my three years also, I'm trying to get it more tangible for, parents, because honestly I'm telling you, my three years old is pretty from one and I can see. myself having these whole dialogue with the three years old. So I'm really trying to organize my thought around that.

Dr.Dowtin: 24:12

No, that's really good. Well, it's also, thinking about where your child is. A lot of our, , I think that one of the things, one of the challenges that we get into is when we're really thinking about boundaries is one we're in the heat of the. Right. And then that the three-year old is not none of us, honestly, if your brain, if you're already in the emotional part of your brain, you don't have access then at that point to your frontal, your frontal lobe, which is the front part of your brain, which is planning organization, logical thought, right? It's our executive functioning. So if I'm in the emotional space and I don't have access to this logical stuff, And you're over here trying to reason with me. It's not going to get through, it's just not happening. I don't have access to that part of my brain right now. And so when I have access to that part of my brain is when I'm calm and children, a three-year-old, they're going to have the access to their brain. Usually when they're playing. And when they're the happiest and plays, usually when children aren't just like themselves in their own world. So , whenever you're thinking about, okay, there's a boundary I'm to want to set later or there's values. I'm trying to instill, we always say introduce that during place. So play with your child, , and actually play with them. Don't just like, watch them play, but interact with them while they're playing. And, like it might be a good opportunity to think about physical boundaries when you're playing. Let's just say your child snatches a toy from you. because they really wanted to win. Maybe we could have just been excited, like, oh my gosh, this looks like I want to ask them. then that could be a time where you say, oh, you snatch that for me, I don't play with, my friends or I don't play with people when they snatch toys for me really quickly. And you just have made that statement and maybe they've sunk in, maybe it didn't. But then what happens is the next time that they snatch something, then you say, oh, you snatch it again. Well, I'm not going to continue playing right now. We can try it. And you can let, they can still keep playing, but you were, then you're not flying with them because you kind of set that boundary that said they don't play when people snatch things from me. So the first thing is do it when they're calm, try the strategies first, when they're calm and usually starting them during plan and when they're really young, you're going to use fewer words than you're using with your 11. You're trying really hard to use really short sentences, as much as possible because your 11 year old has more vocabulary, more expressive language and is going to be able to understand and express that herself better than your three-year-old. So these strategies can be used concretely throughout the age band, but they look different because we want to tailor them to your child's development.

Tammy: 26:50

So first I like the idea introducing the boundary and the value when playing, cause this is when the brain is able to. Gain those kind of ideas. And it does require from parents to sort of plan that ahead. Right. You kind of think about what value do I want to talk about, how do I want to approach, do I want to do it with a book or do I want it just, you know, saying when I was a kid, blah, blah, blah, and give the example. So the message. In there, but it does require an, I think this is one takeaway from this episode is that we can just accept our kids to have those boundaries and know what is it, what the expectation and how to actually implement it. It's something that we need to work on the idea and break it into little milestones of how to get there.

Dr.Dowtin: 27:44

Exactly. Exactly. And so yeah, you have to first know what your value, what the values are, what are the values I want to teach my job. You have to be intentional. Right. And think about those things. and then you can find moments that it's a good opportunity, right? Some, again, some of these things are going to just naturally come up. You said that your, your son is strong-willed, He's has his mind made up sometimes and you're trying to figure out what, well, how do I work through that? and I always say, well, one, you can use that for good. Right? Cause a strong-willed person, a strong mind person can be a great leader. Sometimes one day we just have to teach them to use their powers for good. Right. Yeah.

Tammy: 28:25

You don't want to like degrade it or not give it legit because it just taking this super power they have, but also you have to be so patient, like, I want to ask you should about that. If I'm using a certain consequence and, you know, dialogue, and I'm repeating it over and over again. What would be a timeframe that you could say, well, this type of dialogue or whatever is not working, we need to change.

Dr.Dowtin: 28:53

Oh, good one. Do you mean repeating it over and over again? Like over time?

Tammy: 28:57

Yeah, specific example. Right. So my child is getting angry and then he heats or heels. And then I say, well, I can't let you hit me. And then, we have some strategies. I can say, I can see that you're angry and it's okay to be angry. What do you want to do now? Like, and then he can push the stick, the wall, he can breathe. We have those kinds of things and we've done it thousands of times we've done it so much. So that's why I'm asking what's the limit to say, well, this kind of thing is not working.

Dr.Dowtin: 29:32

Very good. I would say that there isn't a perfect timeline. but if yes, if you've done it a thousand times and you've done it, you know, you feel like you've done it for, for weeks and months on end and you feel like you've been consistent in the way that you do that., then it means that the constant. Isn't potent enough. So when we think about natural consequences and logical consequences, so say for instance, you want your child to like, have the rain coat on or put it, get an umbrella or something and they say no. And you're like, okay, well, and then they, the natural consequences it's raining outside, so they get wet. Right. but maybe that was fun. And it was like, ha like playing in the rain and I'm so much fun. So it was a natural consequence, but it didn't change. The behavior probably reinforced the behavior. So then you might want to say, then we have to switch. So maybe at this point, I'm giving you these options, but these options are potentially. You're looking at them as playtime. Like yeah, we're pushing, but like I'm giving you the attention. So maybe what it is is that when he hits, because you've done it a million times and you've set the boundary, we don't hit, then you remove yourself. you may remind him, you have all those things. You can do push the wall, whatever you pick one, but mommy's going to go make lunch or whatever. maybe you keep the same thing in place, but you make it. Does that make sense?

Tammy: 30:50

Yep. It makes sense. it seems like . We can tolerate and we can patient but there is certain point that, you know, as a parent, you need to reevaluate your tools and see if you need to change something.

Dr.Dowtin: 31:02

Exactly.

Tammy: 31:04

Thanks for it for saying that., I think we need to go towards the end. So I wanted to ask you if there anything else you want to add,

, Dr.Dowtin: 31:12

I think it's just, you know, remembering that parenting is a journey and, you matter, so I want the parents out there to know that you matter and your emotional capacity is really important. And I say that because when we think about boundaries, it can be so hard to learn how to set them, to reinforce them. We have our guilt and our feelings and all those things. So you really have to make sure that you're doing things that you care for yourself. And I we've used this analogy a million times. I got to find another one, but it's that mask on a plane analogy. So when they tell you if the oxygen masks come on, you put the oxygen mask on yourself first, and then you turn and help the ones that are with you, right. You're trying to help your child help the elderly person, whatever. And the reason for that is let's just say, as you're trying to put the mask on your child and you don't put yours on what if you pass out. Now you don't have a mask on the child, doesn't have a mask on, nobody has a mask on and you can't get appropriate oxygen. So if you aren't emotionally regulated, if you are in a place where you don't have the emotional capacity to do something, then you're not going to be able to instill or teach that value at that particular time to your child. So then you got to check in, do whatever you need to do to re-read that. And then go back in fresh and fresh faced and bushy tailed, to interact with your child. That's an intellectual boundary you can set for yourself of self-care.

Tammy: 32:35

I would even take what you said one step further and say. In a moment where I feel I don't have the emotional capacity to deal with something. I sometimes let go even, you know, very high prioritized boundary of myself. If I feel like I can't handle it the way I wanted to do it, I'm like, okay, I'm just going to close my eyes and let it be.

Dr.Dowtin: 33:01

Exactly. Yeah. Take your deep

Tammy: 33:03

So I love. Point it just changes the game when you're so strict with yourself as a parent, that you always have to do it. You all, you know, it just let it respect your own own humanity.

Dr.Dowtin: 33:17

It's respect your own humanity have respect your own intellectual boundary. You were allowed to be human. There is no such thing as a perfect parent, and you're all just doing our best, you know,

Tammy: 33:27

We just need to model being a human

Dr.Dowtin: 33:30

Yeah, exactly flaws and all, they need to see it all. Cause they need to see how you recover from your mistakes. That's so important, right? If they think you're too perfect, then think about the unrealistic expectations they set on themselves. Right?

Tammy: 33:45

Yes. Thank you so much for being so genuine and sharing those type of boundaries. I think. So essential for us, the parents to know and be aware of. There was a, so once again,

Dr.Dowtin: 33:56

Thank you. Alrighty. Bye-bye.