#14 How Can You Help Build Your Child's Resiliency? With Dr. Mortimer

What does resilience mean?  What are the skills related to being resilient?  and how can you support your child in developing resilience?

This week's guest is  Dr. Mortimer, a Licensed Psychologist, who is currently practicing in Fort Worth, Texas. She has prior experience working within school districts and the hospital setting. Dr. Mortimer has been married for 15 years and has 2 children, ages 7 and 9. Her role in public school and private practice settings have given her opportunities to work with children and young adults from 2-25 for evaluations to determine diagnosis, counseling, and behavioral support. The combination of clinical experience and her personal parenting journey has given her insight into a wide variety of common childhood experiences and challenges. 

Join our talk about resilience where  Dr. Mortimer shares research-based strategies to make your home a place where you find true enjoyment and raise resilient kids!

Here you can read more about Dr. Mortimer, and her partner Dr. Erin. You will also find more details about their “101 parenting course” (only 90 minutes!).

Related resources:

•  What is the mistake club?
•  Chores by Age Free printable

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Transcript

Tammy: 0:01

Good morning, Jordana. How are you today?

Jordana: 0:03

Good. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for coming. do you know that I personally, when I think about resilience, I imagine it like a person who's really strong that everything that goes in his life, , it doesn't touch him. It's like life is so smooth. And honestly, that's an unrealistic expectation, especially from our kids. Should develop all those skills. So I want to start and ask you, what does resilience mean?

Tammy: 0:32

Sure. Great question. So resilience is kind of that ability to bounce back quickly. From something that was difficult or an adversity, uh, and having those skill sets to adapt no matter what the situation is. So if it was something easy, you can move on quickly. But even if it's really hard, you have your own set of strategies in order to continue to move on without it negatively impacting you. So, uh, it's kind of like a protective barrier and you're right. There are some people who seem to be more naturally resilient than others and things don't impact., and that's kind of our ideal of what we think that would look like previously. It really was viewed as almost primarily a psychological, component that you had. And some people had it and some people did not have it, but we've learned through research that you can grow this skill. This is something that can be learned. there is a biological component where some people appear to be a bit more resilient, but like with most things, there's a nature and a nurture component., so it is something that,, parents can, , impart on their children can teach them how to be more resilient, which is good news. You're not outta luck. If your child isn't just naturally very resilient.

Jordana: 1:37

Yeah, it, gives me a much more optimistic view of my children and myself . So let's dig in. What are the skills related to being resilience?

Tammy: 1:47

sure. There's a lot of things., the other I probably should have clarified is that resilience doesn't mean it is a protective factor and that you have a set of skills or coping strategies, but certainly doesn't keep you from ever experiencing significant adversity. Right. So we're still gonna have stress and, so this is just giving us the ability, to continue our lives without being significantly negatively impacted. So, uh, the skills related to, resilience would be, , one having your own set of coping strategies. And this I think is one of the great things that. Parents can teach their children, there's a lot of research now and a lot of people are trying to emphasize teaching kids. How can you, when you're feeling really overwhelmed, , be aware of those feelings, be aware of how your thoughts are impacting your behavior and the way your body feels inside those sematic components. and then being able to figure out what works for you in order to kind of come to that,, state of calm or homeostasis. So that's, I. some other, , skills would be problem solving., so being able to see that we have an area of difficulty or a problem that we're facing and kind of breaking that down or figuring out how can we get to the goal that we need, or how can we process through that? Whether that's., activity we have to do, whether that's in a relationship and we're having conflict with a friend, but being able to figure out like, okay, this is what the problem is. Here are the steps I can take in order to kind of process through that. That is helpful. Patience is a component, but that one is a little bit hard and that is hard for us as adults too. I think even though our, brains are fully formed, we still have a hard time with patients. And, , I think that brings up a. Component is that we often want our kids to be really great at things, or we get surprised when they get really frustrated. but we as adults where our brains are fully formed already, still struggle significantly. Sometimes when things are really difficult and we have to push ourselves beyond what we're usually comfortable with in order to reach a goal. So if we can kind of reflect on our own frustration, sometimes I think we can extend a bit more grace to our children when they have a difficult time.. and that usually manifests, you know, in negative behaviors that we don't want, whether that's, , crying or getting really frustrated or whining or quitting., and we tend to put even more pressure on them. Like, why is this bothering you? Why can't you just do this? We know that you can do it, just, just do it. Uh, and that usually doesn't get us the outcome that we want. some other skills that are related would be commitment. So kids learning that once they agree to do something, they have to follow it through. And that's a hard one. and I know that's kind of leading into something else, but I'll just say it's important for us as parents to help our children keep their commitment. So for example, if they wanna tryout a new sport or an extracurricular activity. And you know, they be like, oh, I promise that if you sign me up for soccer, I, you know, my friends are doing it. I'm gonna love doing it. I promise. And then you go to the first practice and they have to run the whole time and they're sweating. They're like, you know what, actually, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be. No thanks., but having a conversation from the beginning of, Hey, you said you wanted to do this. We made a commitment. We signed up and were part of a team. Other people are counting on. you may not like it so much, but there's still a skill that we can probably learn from this experience. So let's, let's let this play out and you gave your word and then we'll talk about it when you know, the season's over or however many lessons, if you signed up for guitar or piano., and that teaches them that we don't quit. When things get hard, we still have to keep pushing through.

Jordana: 5:05

Yeah, that's so true. I had just the same thing with my daughter. She would apply to something and then she didn't wanna go. So we made an agreement and I ask her, what's the timeframe that we can agree on that you are gonna try. And by then we will reassess if you want to continue or not.. So, in this example, how much would you say would be the minimum that a parent should, coach his child to try to give it a try?

Tammy: 5:33

Sure. So I think that's a good conversation to have at the beginning. So this actually happened with my daughter in basketball. Some other girls from school were signing up. She was excited. We thought it was an all girls team. and we talked about before, okay, this is how many games there are, you know, the season lasts for so many weeks. And normally like in elementary school, it's like eight or 10 weeks. Right. It's usually not a significant period of time for a season. So we showed up and it turns out it was, it was co-ed. Uh, and this was already in third grade. So third grade boys, most of them had already played basketball and we had not, and I did not play sports growing up. So I had no advice to give her on how to play basketball. So she was like, mom, this was not what I thought it was gonna be. And I was like, it wasn't what I thought it was gonna be either. But we signed up, we made a commitment to our team. We're we're just in a try. and we learned some great skills and strategies. You know, how we have to show up, even if we don't like things, we can find moments where it can be enjoyable. It's still nice to be, you know, part of a team and have that camaraderie. At the end of the season, we got an email that was like, congratulations, you finished your first season of soccer. And her immediate response was. First and last season. So it's like, okay, I got it. it doesn't mean that we didn't have that conversation multiple times, you know, like, Hey, I know that we have another basketball game this weekend. I know it's not what you're really looking forward to. We made a commitment and we kind of have a catch phrase in our family. To teach this skill specifically. And, , a family phrase is Mortimoers, don't give up. Uh, and so we, we just kind of reflect on that, like, Hey, Mor Tomers, don't give up, this is an opportunity for us to show that in real life. and we can talk about it at the end, what we've learned, even if we, again, it's not our favorite thing and we don't ever wanna do it again. There's some little nugget amongst all the difficulty that can Possitive

Jordana: 7:18

I that one season, good starting point starting

Tammy: 7:21

one season and you know, I guess if you're signing, it's always a good idea too. Most places will give you like a few trial lessons. You know, it's like commercial arts is pretty good at giving you a lesson or two or a week., if it's, um, instrument and you would have to buy, , the instrument, I definitely would try a few before you fully commit because thatof being a lot more of a financial component in addition to a time component. of course, giving them options to test something out. We don't wanna be, stressed out ourselves as parents and forcing them. Right. So there's some pre-work we can do to make sure that they have enough of an idea of what they're actually asking for. So like, if you wanna sign up for piano, that's great, but you're gonna have to practice every day. And then you have a lesson once a week, or, if you wanna do soccer, like, Hey, that's great. But every day you probably need to practice kicking the ball. So it's explaining what those parameters really look like. What's really gonna be asked and required of them, like in, so you're gonna have to be outside and running and it's gonna be hot and sweaty. Like, are you prepared for that? so we can do some pre-teaching beforehand and not just sign them up haphazardly and then tell them, well, So sad. I signed you up. You have to do it. So obviously there, there needs to be some collaboration at the beginning for that decision.

Jordana: 8:33

I totally get that. I actually dig into the commitment component, but you started by saying that we, in order to be resilient, need to develop skills such as commitment and self-awareness and coping skills. Is there anything else you wanna add

Tammy: 8:51

for the skills related to, resilience. I, so So I think, oh, and the other one I would say is being able to ask for help. So I think a lot of times . we assume that resilience means that you are just a strong individual, and a key factor. and we're gonna talk about this. I know in a minute for good resilience that we talked about that biological component, and then that. Nature versus nurture. So the nurture component is the biggest research based factor outside of genetics for resiliency is a loving, committed relationship with an adult, whether that be a parent or a grandparent or some caregiver., and that's the big thing we're gonna talk about with, how can we support that skill is one,, if we're just committed, like if they're listening to this podcast and they're wanting to learn more about being a better parent, they're already, you know, on the right track and invested into that process, that is a big protective factor. And in that relationship, being able to ask for help or acknowledging mistakes is super helpful, , because you don't have to do it alone. We are social creatures. We are meant to be in community with one another., and it's a sign of strength to know your own boundaries and limitations. And when you need to ask other people for some support,

Jordana: 9:57

I resonate with this a lot and I'm sensing two things it's asking for help is modeling as a parent that I'm asking for support and advice, and also.

Tammy: 10:08

Mm.

Jordana: 10:08

Encouraging my child to ask for help whenever he needed that.. And also you mentioned advocating for yourself, which is another piece for the child to be able to say, that's what I need or that's what I want, or I didn't feel comfortable when, you know, my sibling heated me. um, which goes to the part that you mentioned to solving problem, like encourage the kids to solve the problem by himself. and then if he can do it, then ask help.

Tammy: 10:37

And I wanna clarify too, cause I think, depending on their age and developmental level, a lot of times, yes, we want them to problem solve independently, but that. End goal. So there's a lot of steps in between of them not having. And this goes for all the skill sets we're talking about, right? We're, we're starting at a zero, you know, when we're born outside of natural resiliency, but patience is hard. Problem solving is hard, asking for help is hard. It's hard for me as an adult to ask for help still, even though I know that it's good and important and other people want the opportunity to help most of the time, So we need to break those down and not have adult expectations for what some of these things look like. We need to have child expectations. So specifically for problem solving. my typical advice is. Having them reflect on what the problem is and how that impacts themselves and other people. Usually it does in some way, whether that's emotional behavioral, you know, cuz they're upset with someone or a conflict happened and then give them a few options on if they can't generate it themselves. Cause especially at the early age, they're probably not gonna be able to come up with the best way, to handle it. And so give them a few options and like, Hey, like based on what you're telling me, these look like different ways that we could handle the problem. Which one do you think would be a good choice and, and let them make the choice, even if that would not have been your number one way of solving it, so that they can see what the feedback is. And so after they try that problem solving approach, maybe it does work and we move on and they've learned how to use that strategy. Uh, or if it doesn't work, say like, okay man, bummer looks like we have to try another one. So it's definitely a collaborative problem solving process. Again, they're still making decision. They're still doing all the actions, but then cognitively thinking through what are all the different things involved in solving. It probably need some adult support.

Jordana: 12:21

Mm-hmm so how can a parent actually can support his child developing resilience according to the age? Cuz probably I wouldn't expect to have a whole discussion like that with the two years old. So if. Dig into that

, Tammy: 12:36

sure. Yeah. So like we said, first is having just a really loving, relationship. So at two, we're doing a lot of, , exploring environment, a lot of cause. Effect, , and some, and a lot of that can be frustrating, like, you know, a toddler eating and throwing food on the ground to see what happens. and so them ability to do that without us always being angry or taking it personally and be like, oh, well, when you throw food on the floor, it goes on the floor and that's not good. And it shows me that you are finished eating. Is that what you're saying? And they can either. Yes, I'm done. And you take it away or they can say no and like, okay, well then don't throw food on the ground and I won't take that away. So it's a, a little way to kind of build in a them understanding, problem solving and like our actions have an effect. most of that's gonna be like through modeling a specific situation. You're right. We cannot have deep conversations with a two year old about those things.. but then modeling a lot of, regardless of the ages, modeling those skills and being able to say like, oh, when you know, when this happens, I see you're frustrating. And reflecting back on those emotions and saying, it's okay to get frustrated when your toy doesn't work, do you wanna fix it? Or do you want, you know, mom or daddy to help you fix it? So that's an opportunity and just those little small moments. We're modeling for them, how we can still say calm we're validating that emotion and that it's okay. We can't fix that emotion for them. And we shouldn't, they need to learn to sit with that and overcome it, but we can still guide them on the process of getting to the end result. And then they have a choice. You wanna try again? You know, are you able to do that without being too frustrated or do you need some outside support?, I think that's a big way to help kind of get them on that process is when they're experiencing frustration to just reflect and say, Hey. Man, that looks really frustrating., and it's hard. Would you like to try again or do you wanna ask for help? And that I think can, that's a little bit older, kind of getting more towards four and five and up, but you can still give those simple choices when they're a younger toddler.

Jordana: 14:25

Yeah, , it totally works. Especially with the ones that are like really bossy or today they call them leaders. They wanna do everything by themselves. So when they turn too terrible too, it's it's not gonna work otherwise I know from it firsthand so.

Tammy: 14:45

My daughter is one of those leaders. It's good. That's good. They, they want to make decisions. They wanna make things happen and those are good goals. As an adult, we just get frustrated, as parents, because we are like, that's great later, but right now I just kind of want you to do what.

Jordana: 15:02

Yeah, I always think about it that in the short term, it makes my life as a parent a bit harder, but in the long term, I know this boy will survive.

Tammy: 15:12

So far. Yeah, I think that's a, a perfect, , description of what's happening is it's normally a reflection of our own frustration, right? So much a problem with the child having that personality characteristic, it's our ability as a parent to maybe guide them because of that personality characteristic, the best way.

Jordana: 15:30

Yeah, I think it's many times fall into timing boundaries that we have to get things done in a certain time and the kids just wanna do it by themselves. So it takes. 10 times more than it should. So we are being unpatient as you said, it's a lot of about patient

Tammy: 15:45

Yeah. me Think about normal morning routine, you know, like most, I think that's a time when most of us as parents get really impatient, because we're trying to get out the door and go to work or we have somewhere to be, or the kids have to go to school. And a lot of it comes down to like, did we plan accordingly enough for the time that it probably takes, I notice on mornings where things seem to go swimmingly. It's like, oh, I got up a little bit earlier and got myself ready so that I could guide them along versus me feeling rushed. And then pushing that, you know, feeling upon my phone kid sometimes.

Jordana: 16:15

Yeah. It circle up to the beginning of our discussion, talking about resilience self-awareness and,

Tammy: 16:22

Yes.

. Jordana: 16:23

So we started with the two years old and can we. move on and how do we support the child as he grow up? And also what's the expectation. Like you talked also about how much time does it take to a person to recover from this bump.

Tammy: 16:39

like, is there an expectation of how long it should take you to recover? Uh, I don't, I don't think so. you know, I don't think that we can put a time limit and if your child takes a little bit of extra time, that is like a warning bell, like, oh, that's red flag that I don't think it quite works that way., if I could summit would be being able to handle that difficulty in a positive or proactive way. So, they can still be frustrated, but if they have a coping strategy to be calm and realize like, okay, this is, and kids are still allowed to be upset and mad, right. We as adults are still upset and mad at times when things happen, but its ability to say like, okay, that was really upsetting. but I know that I need to do it anyway. And so. Are gonna go take a break. I am gonna take a walk. I'm gonna talk to a friend about it. I'm gonna get some feedback on what would be the best way to approach this. So we're still sitting in maybe the negative emotion for a minute, but we're still proactively trying to overcome it. So I think you can have both of those things at the same time.. I Resilience doesn't mean, you have to be cheerful all the time, right? About when you have something that's really difficult. That doesn't mean you are like a Pollyanna where you're just like, oh, that was really hard. That's okay. My day is great. I'm still doing it. Uh, that would be an unrealistic expectation because we're humans and life can be really hard a lot of the times. And it's okay for both. Things to exist at the same time.

Jordana: 18:03

so you just mentioned some great coping skills, which is like walk away, talk to a friend, Take a break, just do something different. And those are the things which we can start and implement and guide our kiddos . , so when do you think you could actually guide your kids to do those kind of coping skills?

. Tammy: 18:23

So, yes, that definitely progresses. I think as, when toddlers, as parents were probably pretty good at the distraction technique, where we kind of direct them to something else. but we don't necessarily need to always distract them from emotions all the time. They're allowed to ex. Experience some negative things. but we can move them forward. We don't need them to have a long, a long tantrum., Jordana: When would you

Tammy: 18:47

Oh, for coping

Jordana: 18:48

to use the more advanced, I would say coping skills.

Tammy: 18:52

Sure. So I think. Small pieces of moving it along developmentally is important. you know, if we're modeling from a young age, so let's take, for example, that they are three and four, something that you can do is, , some awareness. Or grounding techniques. So things like, you know, five things that you can see, , four things that you can, hear three things that you can smell. Some things that you can touch and doing those outside or things like, laying outside on a blanket, uh, and staring up at the clouds and looking at what shapes the clouds are making and feeling the wind., beyond you and just being able to be present with your own body and your own thoughts, and those are okay. And those can be again, they're probably gonna be really brief for a four and five year old. You may not even get through all the, the different numbers of things that you can do, but that's a great way to, kind of give them some exposure. And then of course them seeing you do it. I think that's a big component. Cause a lot of times we tell let's take breathing. For example, breathing strategies actually have a lot of research behind them because they can, regulate your blood pressure., they really do help you calm down, but a lot of times we don't practice or model for our children. And so what happens is in the heat of the moment we say like, okay, look, let's do those breathing strategies, but it sounds . Almost like a consequence or punishment, like, oh, you got upset. So now you have to go do these because we don't ever do them at any other time., they don't know how to do them well., and especially in a moment where you are having heightened emotions, you're breathing and heart rate and everything are, Occurring at a faster rate. And so you might start breathing, but they're gonna be breathing really rapidly, which is the opposite of what we want them to do. So the component is having a regular enough practice where we're doing it so that it is a natural, normal thing where it's like, oh, I see. You're starting to get really up to. That and frustrated, you know, how we always or regularly, do that thing where we breathe in for a couple counts and we breathe out for a couple counts. Let's try that and see if that can help us, you know, before we get to the period of problem solving, , that's another good point is we always, we need to be able to be calm and collected when we're making some of those decisions. And there's okay to have a period of time in between when an event happens and letting our children experience that emotion and then overcome it and then move to the problem solving. Roach a lot of times, I think we accidentally escalate a situation because right then we want them to solve it. We want it to be over with, we don't have time to deal with it. We just need to move on., but we're not allowing that little gap in between of them learning that self-regulation and that resilience of like this feeling was really icky and frustrating. I don't like it, but I can survive it and overcome. And then we move to that problem solving approach. So just that regular practice,, and then as they grow, they'll have more insight into like, oh, I can pick up on these things on my own and be able to verbalize them. Whereas at the beginning you're gonna have to guide and model that a pretty significant amount. So that should be your expectation that you're definitely taking the lead role., and it takes practice. So you're definitely gonna stumble and., maybe not include all the components and that's okay. As long as we're together and focus on being calm and your child sees that you're connected and really focused on letting them handle that feeling. That's the important, component to focus on, not whether or not you do all the steps correctly, whether you do 'em on the wrong order., just being present and being able to manage your own emotions, right. And you can self regulate. Um, that is the great best step.

, Jordana: 22:10

I get that. The first thing a parent should be aware of is not to own his child discomfort and move towards the solving problem mode immediately, but just to hold the space for the child to come down with the strategies you just mentioned and then move to the more talking piece.

Tammy: 22:30

yeah, it seems like, I think sometimes we view it as kind of like, I don't wanna say a waste of time, but just maybe. Won't have time to include that component. But I think when we don't include that, when we then try to get to the problem solving component, we've either escalated the situation or they can't really make a decision. And so then we just kind of drag it out even longer than it probably would've been in the first place. So it's just a little, a little investment that usually then,, is rewarded in them being able to move on and cope with it and have a positive attitude and realize like, oh, I was able to handle that, which is the, the skill we're looking for.

Jordana: 23:04

Mm-hmm yeah. You say that the foundation the solving problem mode is first of all, validate whatever they feel and let them move out of it. So parents, trying to escalate the process is just doing the opposite. right. That's what you're saying. Okay. I get that.

Tammy: 23:23

yeah, and I think sometimes we think if we tell them like, oh, it's not that big of a deal, or it's really not that bad or you shouldn't be that upset about it. we're teaching the wrong message that that their feelings aren't true. Uh, and sometimes feelings are irrational and, and that's definitely an later age where we kind of talk about that later elementary, mid to late elementary. and we can ask good questions, like, Hmm. Like what made you think that? Or, you know, why do you think they had that response to you? but their feelings are their feelings just like it as adults. If someone tells us , oh, you shouldn't have been that upset that that person said that to you or, oh, you know, your boss really didn't mean it that way, that normally just makes us really defensive, but same thing, it makes our children really defensive., and that certainly isn't helping the relationship. For them to be able to come with us with their problems., that's what our goal is for them to come to us. But if we're dismissive or tell them that it's not as bad as I think it is. and just kind of an irritated, frustrated way, that, like you said, it's making the problem worse.

Jordana: 24:22

I totally get that. It's. That leads me to the next question, which is in which scenarios you could indicate that my kid is not resilient according to his age development stage and the parent or the kid might need an external support.

Tammy: 24:42

Sure. So at age two and three, they are not resilient. so, I mean, I think we all have a funny story about them asking you specifically for request, like, please cut my sandwich in half and then you do, and you know, that is, you know, a level five send over the edge, right. Not rectangles, but triangles and we got it wrong., so again, just having a good expectation that they cannot handle it on their own. And that is okay., and really we're looking at end of three, beginning of four, where they're gonna start to be able to, be a little bit better at handling. Like if a, a peer grabs a toy, from their hand and they don't immediately react and lash out against them. So, you know, later years, four and five, we're gonna start to see those skills. And that's really where we can step into that situation and say, oh, I bet it made you. Set that, Johnny took that toy from you, you know, what can we do about this? And so he can say, Hey, do you, they can find something else to play with. Or do you wanna go ask Johnny for the toy back?, and then also there's a whole nother situation with handling the other child who took the toy and giving them some choices about how they could ask, you know, for the toy or when will they be done so that they can have a turn. So those are great ways to start modeling some of those decisions when they can one have the verbal skills., if they don't have the verbal. Skills to process what you're saying or to express their feelings. That's obviously gonna make it more difficult. So we see in kids who have a major speech impairment, we do see an increase in behaviors because it's frustrating when you have a lot of things that you're feeling and thinking, and the people around you, aren't able to understand that., and so that's a big component too, to keep in mind is having the, the language ability to process what adults are saying. And then also for them to individually be able to express themselves.

Jordana: 26:24

Mm-hmm so , I'm sensing that , if a parent have a slightly concern with his kids, , speech development, then he should seek some help. Cuz this could

Tammy: 26:35

for speech. Yes.

Jordana: 26:37

Great, , predictor for a behavior down the roads, right? That's what I'm understanding. Mm-hmm

Tammy: 26:44

So then as they get older, what would start to see would be things like, getting what would like very emotionally overwhelmed when something doesn't work. So for example, like for a kid who can't put the pieces of a toy together, , and they, you know, are breaking down and crying would be one. As we get older, we. See, I can give a personal example of like my daughter trying to learn a new, hard piano song, you know, and just like laying her head down on the keys and being like, I can't do it. There's no way it's too hard. I'll never be able to play it. And so we say like, okay, well, it's really hard. How about you just take the first line, like only focus on the first, , 10 notes. Let's just see if we can do that. And then all of a sudden, you know, we get to the end and she's playing the whole song at her recital. So it's a good example if we just, , Saw that frustration in our children and thought like, oh, this is too much for them rather than guiding them on. Like, how do we break it down? How do we, yes. Validated is really frustrating. It's hard when we have to do something that doesn't feel natural or doesn't come easily., but then if we help them with that patience, we help them with that commitment., we help them with the problem solving, cuz we broke it down into a smaller chunk. They're getting those little periods of. And so it's releasing all those feel good neurotransmitters. That's like, wow, man, that felt great that I did that. And I did learn it. Uh, it's a similar process. I feel like with most kids in reading, reading is hard., if it doesn't come naturally,, but if you stick to it and then you can reflect like, Hey, you weren't able to read this word and now you are., then they release that feel good neurotransmitter and that's, what's motivating them to then be able to push themselves the next time. Cause they realize like, oh, that was hard. I felt this before. I don't like it, but I can survive it., and then we're creating a snowball of success, which is then setting them up for, , much harder things when they are teens into young adulthood, into, , full adulthood where we still have things that require us to, , commit or to complete actions that are difficult. It's all those little snowballs building in order to be have those lifelong resilience skills.

Jordana: 28:43

So to break it down into little wins. That's what I'm,

Tammy: 28:49

Yes. Yeah. I mean, as for us too, like if, if we just think about how overwhelming, let's say, you know, we have to clean the house, you know? and it's like, where do I even start? It's like, okay, well, I'm just going to. Start with the dishes and I'm gonna clean off the counters and it's like, oh, okay, well that felt good. It's obviously for myself, like that's less anxiety provoking. It seems like there's a sense of common peace. Like, okay, I did this, let's break it down., my daughter is about to turn 10 and so taking a lot more responsibility slowly. We also do., not so. Yes chores, but just, what does it require for you to be a part of our household? Like, we all have to contribute in some way in order for our house to run., and sometimes she feels that way about her own room. Like, oh my gosh, there's,, clothes everywhere and , a puzzle, exploded., and there's pens and markers from coloring everywhere. And so it's breaking it down, like, okay, just do your clothes. Just do, don't worry about anything else. Just do that and see if you can do it. And it's like, oh, well, well I finish that in 10 minutes. See, yeah. It's, it's not that hard. And so the. Us., we're still working on some of the same things, as our kids, it's breaking it down and learning how to have that small win , in a big task.

Jordana: 29:55

Yeah, it happens with cleanup as well. If the Lego is out and the magnet tiles is out and , many cars is out the kids, they don't have a clue where to start. So we also just focus on the magnets and then move on. So I like this idea. It really works good. anything else you would like, , to add in regard to scenarios that indicate that kids might need an extras? Cuz I'm hearing that in about, let's say four, they should be able to manage more of this frustrating moment.

Tammy: 30:28

Yeah. So they're still gonna have an emotional reaction. Right., but yeah, we can definitely start guiding them on asking them how they want to start moving forward with solving it. Uh, they can definitely be an active. Event rather than just us just telling them what they need to do to solve it., and building that coping strategy set again, just having really small expectations of what they can be doing. so what would we would notice is an emotional reaction, a., not being able to persist. Um, so getting frustrated and wanting to quit and not being able to move on, and just, you know, kind of that frustration easily discouraged is what we wanna push through. And I think there's been a, , related to resilience. There's been a greater, awareness and education related to growth mindset that has become a big thing, kind of a buzzword, which is definitely related to it's okay. To make mistakes. This is a learning process. How do we still get focused on getting to the end and you know, not being able to do something yet. So that power of the word yet is closely tied. And I think I., us focusing that through the school system, a lot of school systems are incorporating that into their educational process and, , parents, , incorporating that and allowing mistakes,, that's gonna be a normal, process of being a human is definitely helping them realize like it's okay that I didn't do it right the first time. Cuz a lot of times that's where it's. Stems froms. Like I should have already been able to do it, like either put that toy together exactly how I wanted or made that picture or drawing exactly how I wanted it to be in my mind. And that didn't work. more Related, to just daily tasks sometimes than big things like sports , or music. They just didn't meet their own expectation. And that is frustrating to them, like, okay, you're right. You didn't do it., do you want help? Do you wanna watch a video about how to draw that better? Do you wanna just try again? we can support them so they can kind of overcome that and, learn to do it independently and how it is a process. We don't do it. Usually write the very first time. And that's okay. None of us normally do.

Jordana: 32:17

Mm-hmm so just to embrace the process itself before it even gets to . the. Expectation of the result in our mind.

Tammy: 32:25

Yeah. A regular practice of this, probably isn't gonna take a few times. And it might be frustrating along the way., and if that's what the kids are expecting of a process, rather than they're always gonna do it right away, the first time exactly how it should be. You know, we're lowering their own expectations, not in a, negative way. We want them to reach great goals and we wanna push them to do great things., but it's a learning process, with emotional skills, with actual academic skills, with behavioral skills, uh, we just start small and slowly build across all of areas of development.

Jordana: 32:57

well, that made it really clear how , we should be kind of the coach for our children. That's what it is,

Tammy: 33:05

Yeah,

Jordana: 33:06

parent. I like that. Anything else you would like to add?

Tammy: 33:11

I guess one, , wait. Parents to know, like how to push them or how to know, you know, what would be an appropriate expectation is there's this idea of a zone of proximal development., and what that means is we wanna look at what skillset are they currently able to do, where they feel successful and not very frustrated. And then nudge that just a little bit. So we're not making really high expectations, just, Barely out of their comfort zone. And so those are the slow steps., the best way to kind of think about like, well, , how do I set a goal for my child? That's attainable is look at what their current skillset is and nudge it up just a little bit. So, , let's say that they can, do the P and O example. They can only sit really for about, five minutes before they get frustrated. It's like, okay, well, let's try for six minutes. And so we're gonna slowly build. So it's about taking their current skill set and just bumping it up a little bit would be a good indicator for how parents would know how to move forward.

Jordana: 34:05

So kind of help them, , create their own scale, their own bar. Mm-hmm

Tammy: 34:11

Right. And it's gonna look different for every single individual,, each one of your children across some, they might be., struggling more in one area, but doing excellent in another. So they probably don't need to push themselves in the area where they're already excelling. Uh, we need to focus on the one where they need support there, and then obviously that'll look a lot different from your other child. And so just evaluating their own skillset and how to bump that just a little bit.

Jordana: 34:31

Got it. Well, it. So good. We got so much, and I like the whole new perspective about resilience, which make it so much more realistics

Tammy: 34:44

Yes.

Jordana: 34:45

so thank you. Jordanna so much for being with me today and sharing from your experience and knowledge, and have a great day.

Tammy: 34:56

Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for asking really good questions. And hopefully this is helpful for pushing our children to, meet some goals.

Jordana: 35:03

Well, I hope so too. And will have, um, your great online course will be attached. So if someone wants to get more of your content, he'll be able to do so.

Tammy: 35:16

Yes. It definitely focuses on helping build that relationship, giving some coping strategies to your kids. and a definite emphasis is problem solving. How do we teach our children problem solving so that they can, , fix their own, , mistakes, which is an important life goal. So thanks for mentioning it.

Jordana: 35:30

Of course, bye. Have a good day.

Tammy: 35:33

You too. Thank you. Bye bye.

Jordana: 35:34

bye.