Playground Talks

#38 How To Prevent Extremism From Childhood? with Dr.Emily Bashah

• Tammy Afriat and Dr.Emily Bashah • Episode 38

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As the hostage crisis is happening in Israel, we had this important conversation with Dr.Emily Bashah, where we discussed:

  • What is extremism? 
  • How does extremism relate to one’s sense of agency?
  • How can you foster your children’s sense of agency?
  • 5 ways to Prevent Extremism from Childhood

Dr.Bashah is the author of the book "Additive Ideologies" and a licensed psychologist with a private practice in Scottsdale, Arizona. She is an expert witness in criminal, immigration, and civil courts, she has worked on high-profile cases covering issues of domestic terrorism capital offenses, and first-degree murder.

Dr. Bashah was awarded the Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues Policy Fellowship and served within the American Psychological Association’s Public Interest Government Relations Office in Washington, D.C. A frequent expert guest in media, Dr. Bashah clinically specializes in mental illness, personal and collective trauma, addiction and grief and loss, as well as family and relationship dynamics. 

Relevant links:
The Optimistic American Podcast
#39 Are American citizens and children immune to extremism? with Dr. Emily Bashah PART B

As a certified parent coach, I aim to help you set boundaries with compassion.
So grab your FREE Compassionate Parenting Guides now!

You can also:

Remember to treat yourself and your children with compassion and curiosity. 🫶

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

Hi, Basha. are you today?

Dr.Bashah:

Good. Tami. Thank you so much for having me on your show. It's an honor to meet you and to get to know you and be invited on your podcast during these difficult

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

times. Thank you for collaborating me. And I think we were in touch for a couple of weeks. And kind karma that we get to do this interview, right after the horrific events happening in Israel by a terrorist organization called Hamas . So I really appreciate you taking time and sharing your perspective as a psychologist and from your own personal and family experiences. And we'll talk today about how to prevent extremism and. I would love to first from you, how do you define extremism and what does it has to do with the book you wrote called Addicted Ideologies?

Dr.Bashah:

Yes. Thank you

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

much for

Dr.Bashah:

having me on your show. So my partner, husband, father of our daughter, Paul Johnson, and I coauthored a book, Addictive Ideologies. Finding meaning and agency when politics fail you,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

because we

Dr.Bashah:

were so concerned about these growing polarizations and extremism in the U S

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and

Dr.Bashah:

also globally.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

And

Dr.Bashah:

what we did is we analyzed and assessed., various

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

forms of genocides across the

Dr.Bashah:

globe, acts of terrorism and extremism.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

And

Dr.Bashah:

we actually just came back from a trip to Bosnia, meeting with political and community leaders there, really understanding the atrocities that had been committed to the Bosnian population. And actually we were supposed to be in Israel this week, meeting with community and political leaders. Um, as well as

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

family

Dr.Bashah:

members

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

having

Dr.Bashah:

a reunion

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

with the

Dr.Bashah:

Jewish Iraqi community. so my work, I come at this

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

a

Dr.Bashah:

psychological lens. I do work as a forensic, expert, doing evaluations of people who are being charged

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

domestic terrorism,

Dr.Bashah:

extremism, capital crimes, first degree murder.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

And Paul comes

Dr.Bashah:

at it. He was the former mayor of. Phoenix, served two

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

in the 90s,

Dr.Bashah:

and he's a political expert and really committed, to political reform and raising awareness and growing the independent party in the U. S. and reducing extremism in politics today.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So

Dr.Bashah:

we originally looked at

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

family's

Dr.Bashah:

story as a case. study in our book and really extrapolated that to show and illustrate how this could happen

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and how

Dr.Bashah:

none of us are really immune to it.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and it

Dr.Bashah:

does give

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

a

Dr.Bashah:

good sound theory and understanding of how someone like a terrorist organization like Hamas. Could commit such violent forms of atrocities against Israeli citizens, children, babies, women, elderly, disabled. and what we find is that they're all tied to an ideology. And that these ideologies that become violent are ones that tend to see people as an

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

out group. There's a

Dr.Bashah:

groupthink mentality that is happening.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

They

Dr.Bashah:

see themselves as victims and oppressed. And then that lends itself

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

justification that

Dr.Bashah:

of the outgroup as being the oppressor. And it justifies the violence. more so it's dehumanizing of the oppressor. And so that's why we can see

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

the rhetoric, a

Dr.Bashah:

lot of the propaganda that's

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

pushed

Dr.Bashah:

from Hamas is really seeing and inflaming that they're the ones who are victimized and justifying the acts of vengeance against Israelis because they're not seeing

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

Israelis as part of

Dr.Bashah:

this shared humanity, or, or as human. And. There is an addiction that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

that we see

Dr.Bashah:

with these kinds of extremist groups,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and various

Dr.Bashah:

organizations, or even people individually who commit terrorist attacks, even

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

U. S.

Dr.Bashah:

soil, um, is that there, there are these push and pull factors. They start to be. pulled from things that would ground them

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

root them

Dr.Bashah:

and connect them to

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

a

Dr.Bashah:

sense of belonging,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

a

Dr.Bashah:

shared identity and pushing them more towards radicalization.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

And

Dr.Bashah:

especially there are some vulnerability factors. We can see that radical organizations or radical leaders can help prey upon people who are more vulnerable

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

to

Dr.Bashah:

really indoctrinate them towards these radical forms of ideology. So there's a lot of different processes, but really, I mean, it's quite simple. There's nothing that justifies or condones the acts that Hamas had inflicted in this last week and on the 50th Yom Kippur War and on the Shabbat

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

in

Dr.Bashah:

Israel and beheading babies and infants and tying hands of Children, uh, behind their backs and killing them execution style, raping women and parading them in the streets and celebrating their victory and dancing and singing and chanting. of these

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

Horrific, uh, sadistic acts

Dr.Bashah:

that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

been committed.

Dr.Bashah:

I mean, it's really, it's savage and barbaric, and there's

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

no justification.

Dr.Bashah:

Um, our work is, if we can understand it, we can prevent it. And there are a lot of commonalities that we see across time and across the globe

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

in,

, Dr.Bashah:

various genocides.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

what we saw

Dr.Bashah:

actually in Iraq. When my parents were living there, was that, you know, these were everyday people who just suddenly joined in the forces of the Ba'ath Party and the rise of Saddam Hussein, and they created the Jews as a scapegoat and ostracized them and, said that they are the ones who are oppressing you and they're the ones to blame, for, you everything that is going wrong in your life. And so we have to get rid of them and they're not human. They're, they don't share

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

same humanity

Dr.Bashah:

as us and, and they're less than human. And in doing so we saw.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

assets

Dr.Bashah:

were seized

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

of Jewish

Dr.Bashah:

citizens, business partners, had turned on Jews, businesses were looted, Jews

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

had to

Dr.Bashah:

escape for their

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

They

Dr.Bashah:

had to go through underground passages. my father has a harrowing story of. Escaping through Kurds,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

the Kurds

Dr.Bashah:

had smuggled him into Iran. This was before the revolution at the time. And, there was a safe house in Tehran for him and the U S we're helping

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

different

Dr.Bashah:

operations, to assist these Jews coming out of, these Arab worlds, to have safe

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

to

Dr.Bashah:

Israel. but what happened is. You know, it doesn't just happen overnight, but how is it that masses amounts of people can just condone such violence against people who were their neighbors, their friends, their business partners, the shopkeepers. they went to school with them. How is it that they can just turn on them after having those solidified relationships? And my family has been in Baghdad since 500 BC. This isn't,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

you know,

Dr.Bashah:

they are

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

Arab Jews. We

Dr.Bashah:

are Arab Jews. Babylon is our home

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and we're not

Dr.Bashah:

foreigners. and so

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

being able to

Dr.Bashah:

extrapolate what is going on, Paul and I were really able to elucidate.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

elucidate the risk

Dr.Bashah:

factors for one to be pushed

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

these addictive

Dr.Bashah:

ideologies and the risk is seeing oneself as a victim and seeing the other as the oppressor.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So, when you talk about terrorist organization, we also kind of see as a whole, you know, that's it an organization, but I want to take it to the very person who decided. to do it. To join those terror organization and adapt those ideologies. And I want you, because in the book you are talking about the sense of agency. So if you could please elaborate on what does

Dr.Bashah:

that mean? Yeah. So, you know, personal agency and I realized, your podcast

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

also, you

Dr.Bashah:

know, for mothers and, Parents, uh, raising Children. So I think adding a developmental approach and lens might make some sense for your audience.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

You know, there

Dr.Bashah:

is a developmental approach to violence. So there's longitudinal studies that reveal that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

the most aggressive

Dr.Bashah:

age across the lifespan are actually toddlers. So anyone who has a 2 year old know that.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

They're still learning.

Dr.Bashah:

They're still socializing. They don't necessarily understand social emotional reciprocity. It takes time for them to learn what

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

norms

Dr.Bashah:

are and to see that they're going to be pushed

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

outside

Dr.Bashah:

of the group and not have friends if they're going to be mean to them or stealing their toys or hitting them on the head. and, you know, it seems kind of preposterous. to consider since children, you know, we see them as pure as innocent, but aggression variable study include like forceful hitting, biting, pushing, pulling on another person's body, which two year olds do. So between the ages of two and four is really crucial for parents to model and teach. Pro social behavior. And really, you're teaching them

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

that

Dr.Bashah:

they're they are their own

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

being, and

Dr.Bashah:

they do have agency and responsibility, and they need to be accountable for their behaviors. And so if a child can't socially adapt and they're being ostracized by others and

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

pushed

Dr.Bashah:

out of the group, they don't necessarily learn these skills and they can become emotionally and

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

stunted in

Dr.Bashah:

their development. So I see this in adults that I see either in the forensic work or clinical work that I do where there is this, like stunted developmental growth. That they need to

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

relearn because there were

Dr.Bashah:

missed opportunities in their childhood. While

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

it's a minority

Dr.Bashah:

of children, I should say, so parents don't freak out. Parents ultimately teach children to become socially desirable through this exchange.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

It's

Dr.Bashah:

social emotional

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

That's that

Dr.Bashah:

give and take. I'm gonna share this toy with you because I know that you'll continue to be my friend, and I would rather have someone to play with than no one. you know, so those things

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

important. And through

Dr.Bashah:

the mechanism, adults and peers are now

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

drawn to

Dr.Bashah:

the child because the child gains affection

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

from

Dr.Bashah:

adults.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

gained the benefit from

Dr.Bashah:

adults. They get the praise from adults

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

that is going to help

Dr.Bashah:

reinforce their behavior.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So you've

Dr.Bashah:

got this like varied social input norms that all inform moral. development

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and

Dr.Bashah:

And we see, you

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

over

Dr.Bashah:

time, like the brain is constantly developing their ability to to understand information

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

social rules, do evolve

Dr.Bashah:

over time at a deeper level because, you know, you have

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

teach it

Dr.Bashah:

at a very simple level when they're young and then you could expand upon that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

they get

Dr.Bashah:

older.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

Now with

Dr.Bashah:

adolescence, it's a little trickier because now you've got the effects of testosterone and the hormones so we see this even with tweens, right, so they're not

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

teens, they're

Dr.Bashah:

like somewhere in between.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

Like 9 until 12 13 where where they really begin to be teenagers, right?

Dr.Bashah:

Exactly. Yeah. So that's like that in between stage.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

And so

Dr.Bashah:

boys went by the time that they're adolescents, boys between the ages of 16 to 25

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

to 25 become more aggressive

Dr.Bashah:

physiologically. because of testosterone and the hormones. And so these biochemical changes correlate with increased aggression. There's more stimulus seeking.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

they're

Dr.Bashah:

more sensation seeking and their risk taking and

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

impulsive. And again,

Dr.Bashah:

their frontal lobes not developed so they don't have executive functioning and skills to like moderate. their behaviors or think, Oh, no, that's going to hurt somebody. Or, Oh, there's going to be some legal consequences if I do this. Or, Oh, my parents will punish me if I do this. Like, you know, that comes later.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and it's hard to

Dr.Bashah:

prevent. but it is teachable,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

so

Dr.Bashah:

that's why, like, you know, we're really strong supporters of, like, athletics,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

It's putting them

Dr.Bashah:

in teams where they can feel, like, a sense of pride in their sport, that's also teaching them self discipline and self regulation, these pro social group activities. These tendencies If they're not controlled, these aggressive

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

can

Dr.Bashah:

manifest into externalized behaviors or violence, if they haven't

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

the

Dr.Bashah:

social skills during that critical period of time, and it can have a very different impact on the adolescent male, that trend then more towards conduct problems, oppositional defiant, and, behaviors, which can be precursors for, development of antisocial personality disorder later.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So, I'm sensing that Agencies is actually the awareness that one has that he has to control his own actions, behavior, thoughts, you know, all those kind of things. And also that if he is not controlling them, then there will be outcomes. So that would affect not only himself, but also the people around him, right? Yeah, So

Dr.Bashah:

agency is a mindset. It's adopted through learned behavior and having agency is the belief that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

have the ability and power.

Dr.Bashah:

To effectively make changes that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

inform your

Dr.Bashah:

being And they determine the outcomes that then shape your life.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

This is free.

Dr.Bashah:

Well,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and so it's a belief in

Dr.Bashah:

yourself about your inner strength, your resilience, your flexibility, your ability to adapt to change and do difficult things and yet still have the ego strength. But you're holding that responsibility and accountability. for yourself. Now, this doesn't just happen like you have to develop

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and

Dr.Bashah:

it's through struggle that we learn it. It's I call it struggle muscles. I tell my clients all that time, like, you know, all the time. I'm like, okay, these we have to engage your struggle muscles because like they need to be activated in

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

for

Dr.Bashah:

us to build upon them. So we can always change our self narrative. So what we tell ourselves, if we really believe we're the victim, we've been wronged. It was their fault. They're the oppressor.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

You know, we have

Dr.Bashah:

to be able to

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

look

Dr.Bashah:

at that narrative or habit and things that we're telling ourselves and sometimes how our

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

interacted with us

Dr.Bashah:

has tremendous impact on shaping our self construct. Sometimes it has to do with our external situation and circumstances that inform these internal scripts and the worldview and as adults. You know, we in turn play a large role in how our Children will view themselves.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So

Dr.Bashah:

our goal as parents

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

order to promote

Dr.Bashah:

Self agency is to raise Children who are socially adept. They're emotionally intelligent. They have a sense of like a moral consciousness. They're driven, They're ambitious, but they're also productive members of society. They don't just

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

see

Dr.Bashah:

themselves. They see that they're part of a larger group and that group is dependent on them and they're dependent on the group. There's this beautiful interrelationship. we should want them to be independent thinkers for themselves and to fall and get back up and to learn from that experience.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

so I'm wondering how do you recommend and also you could give some specific example and how parents can protect their children while they're also not, and over overshifting them with, you know, natural consequences.

Dr.Bashah:

Yes, that's really important. you know, so I think that there's a couple different tips and strategies that I would suggest. so gaming and social media can definitely have an addictive potential, especially for, adolescence. So, really monitoring Their access to smartphones, what they're doing on their smartphones. who are they communicating with? What kind of information and content is being shared with people? They're communicating with,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

because there are recruiters online who are. radicalizers from

Dr.Bashah:

extremist organizations, and they're searching for vulnerable youth who can be exploited. And so monitoring the online activity is a really important idea, having lots of conversations with them.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

research illustrates

Dr.Bashah:

that gaming activates this dopaminergic pathway. It's an excitatory response system, and it releases dopamine and adrenaline, and it feels good, and it wants us.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

to keep going

Dr.Bashah:

back.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

so it can have

Dr.Bashah:

that addictive component. and this activates

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

I

Dr.Bashah:

mean, we see that in all kinds of addictions like substance use or gaming or gambling.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

so we, we

Dr.Bashah:

just really

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

want

Dr.Bashah:

to monitor it and counteract that.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

Number

Dr.Bashah:

two, ideologies operate really in a similar way as addictions.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So

Dr.Bashah:

in that people continue to

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

things that harm them,

Dr.Bashah:

and despite

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

hurting themselves and the people

Dr.Bashah:

they love

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and they

Dr.Bashah:

can't control themselves.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

And these

Dr.Bashah:

ideologies have an obsessional quality.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

They can't

Dr.Bashah:

quite stop. And, It's difficult once they're psychologically and emotionally invested and engaged, which can have the potential to rise towards the violence or aggression. So

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

substance

Dr.Bashah:

use disorders and

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

ideological addictions

Dr.Bashah:

can be exacerbated by one's desire

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

fill this void

Dr.Bashah:

in their

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

especially

Dr.Bashah:

if they feel like They've been pushed out of their peer group. They're ostracized. They're bullied. They're not wanted. They don't have

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

sense of

Dr.Bashah:

belonging or a strong sense of identity. And there's this desire to overcome the beliefs that their lives are destroyed, that they're humiliated,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

they're

Dr.Bashah:

embarrassed, that their life is meaningless,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

or

Dr.Bashah:

that they're rejected socially. and

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

they feel powerless.

Dr.Bashah:

to affect

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

pro

Dr.Bashah:

social change.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So number

Dr.Bashah:

three, we really want to buffer and build the support system to

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

them

Dr.Bashah:

and shield them from these possible effects. And so,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

that

Dr.Bashah:

might be their coach, it might be their teachers,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

might be

Dr.Bashah:

their community centers that they participate in, extended family, neighbors that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

trust,

Dr.Bashah:

psychologists.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

that, you

Dr.Bashah:

know, when

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

trust

Dr.Bashah:

are going to be positive influences because sometimes children don't listen to their parents,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

they'll listen to other authority

Dr.Bashah:

figures instead. So you might actually get some,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

um. Yeah, you might. That's what happens when teen, teen and preteen comes in you say they would say, no, I'm gonna do Y. like. Exactly. Exactly.

Dr.Bashah:

So, you know, you

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

start to lose that

Dr.Bashah:

influence. So having those like really important authority figures that they respect and admire that you trust who are influencing them becomes so much more important.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

can I pause you for just a second, because this podcast is also meant younger kiddos. Yes If could also, Give us some example that we can think about and the intention in our parenting for the toddlers that you just mentioned, it's still be great. Yes, yeah,

Dr.Bashah:

absolutely.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So I'll

Dr.Bashah:

just finish off these recommendations and then

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

I'll talk about

Dr.Bashah:

the toddlers.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

so number four,

Dr.Bashah:

I would say, don't alienate them.. You know, especially like, for the older older ones,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

You

Dr.Bashah:

know, if they've already become ideologically extreme. in their belief systems

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

or

Dr.Bashah:

in their behaviors, you don't really want to engage in

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

power

Dr.Bashah:

struggle with them. research tells us by confronting their beliefs head on

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

people

Dr.Bashah:

who have already become radicalized, it's just going to further push them away and

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

going

Dr.Bashah:

to see you as, an opposition. And so you're not going to have any influence at that point. So rather than trying to

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

them

Dr.Bashah:

with facts, really just... Go in questioning, like be very open with them, supportive with them.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

really not trying

Dr.Bashah:

to engage in like counter evidence and that kind of conversation or dispute with them, but really just ask them questions like, how did they get to that solution? How did they get to that concept or idea? What led them there? So have them extrapolate

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

themselves so

Dr.Bashah:

that they

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

also

Dr.Bashah:

see that there are things that don't quite add up or piece together for them and really. Reinforcing their morals and ethics and values that you and that person shared,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

before

Dr.Bashah:

they were radicalized.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So

Dr.Bashah:

what we know with tribalism is that people who adopt a certain

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

identity

Dr.Bashah:

to a group

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

that they

Dr.Bashah:

become so invested

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and

Dr.Bashah:

so loyal that. there's nothing that this group can do wrong. So they're constantly justifying things that they do that may be immoral or harmful, or hurtful to other people., what we want to do is really

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

pull

Dr.Bashah:

up this cognitive dissonance and say, Hey, you know, there is a tension

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

that's there that there's anxiety that's

Dr.Bashah:

produced because. It goes against your morals, what you're doing and what you're agreeing with and what you're saying goes against the foundation

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

what

Dr.Bashah:

you believe in. And so if you can keep that construct of that dialectic, we call it in psychology, that That conflict that's there and do some deeper work, it can help to prevent going off the deeper end and just justifying everything that your group has

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

doing or

Dr.Bashah:

saying. And I mean, honestly,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

what we've

Dr.Bashah:

been seeing with, pro Hamas, supporters who are just, you know, defending Hamas. Irrespective of who they murdered and how they killed them and,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

the

Dr.Bashah:

barbaric and sadistic and savage acts

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

they

Dr.Bashah:

had committed against innocent civilians,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

and say

Dr.Bashah:

things like, Israeli, Israelis deserved it.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

You know, they're

Dr.Bashah:

the colonizer, they're the oppressor. it was just a matter of time. And so, really, that's as an example. So the last recommendation I would say is,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

you

Dr.Bashah:

know, during times of loss and grief and trauma, we can all be confronted with this like deep existential questioning at various times in our lives. Like asking, who am I? What am I about? What do I believe in? Where do I derive meaning and purpose? What am I meant to do in my life?

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

And

Dr.Bashah:

we can find ourselves at different times, feeling insecure, feeling

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

unsure of

Dr.Bashah:

ourselves. and this process really informs identity construction and informs what we do and why we do it. And it. It's important because the other side of it is that

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

promotes a

Dr.Bashah:

dissolution of self and so by engaging in activities that promote

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

this meaning

Dr.Bashah:

and purpose, a sense of belonging and commitment to community and pro social ways can really strengthen our identity and confidence and security and who we are.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

I get that. And that's actually something that you could start and do with your toddlers, you know, start and see where their passion lies. so they can invest their time and their energy there in the, you know, whatever they like do sports, art and craft, theater, whatever it is. Right. And so they grow into the place where they feel belongs. they feel the meaning of their life. They, they feel connected and feel their value.

Dr.Bashah:

yeah, absolutely. And

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

I

Dr.Bashah:

just wanted to address your other question about,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

know, over protecting

Dr.Bashah:

children or like, what

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

parents do for

Dr.Bashah:

toddlers?

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

so

Dr.Bashah:

parents who

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

over protect Children foster

Dr.Bashah:

high degrees of stress and anxiety and an inability for their Children

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

learn how

Dr.Bashah:

to deal with challenges on their own that they're going to face as a young adult.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So

Dr.Bashah:

it's a balancing act, right? Obviously you want. To ensure that your child is physically safe, but sometimes

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

them to

Dr.Bashah:

really do

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

things that

Dr.Bashah:

are emotionally difficult,

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

to

Dr.Bashah:

build that resilience and that trust

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

belief in

Dr.Bashah:

themselves factor.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

going

Dr.Bashah:

to build that confidence that they have in themselves to know I can

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

through this. I

Dr.Bashah:

can survive this. I can find a way out. I can find a creative solution.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So

Dr.Bashah:

that confidence only happens in their. That personal intersection with others without interference by a parent attempting to save them. If you come in and

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

save

Dr.Bashah:

them and rescue them, they're

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

not going

Dr.Bashah:

to learn those skills. Cause they'll, they'll think, well, my parents don't believe in me and trust me to be able to get through it. Why should I? and children, like

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

they

Dr.Bashah:

absorb everything.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

more what you do

Dr.Bashah:

rather than what you say. Like what you think you're teaching them is not what you're teaching them. It's how you're It's everything else.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

all

Dr.Bashah:

the non verbals that you're showing them that they're absorbing.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So

Dr.Bashah:

we have to be mindful of that too.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So between, you

Dr.Bashah:

know, usually two and four years old, children learn how their aggression and unwillingness to share or be nice creates an environment where other children might not want to play with them or reject them Right? And so they learn from that. Are they going to continue being aggressive or are they going to play nice and be kind and share? so they. Children also learn how to gain acceptance by understanding these natural consequences, even at an early age. So as a parent, we don't want to prevent them from having that learning by

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

coming in

Dr.Bashah:

and rescuing them, because it's so important to their development. And it's part of resilience, because it's an important life skill with many benefits. So it's critical that parents obviously ensure your child is safe, but it's also key to balance that While making them strong and emotionally intelligent.

Tammy Afriat, CPC:

So when you mentioned kind of do not own your child discomfort and actually take responsibility your child when he does those unacceptable thing in social setting. And I want following that, I want to ask you because in your book, you have something that I really resonate with. You talk about restorative justice. versus punitive justice in the context of countries. But I to ask you, when it comes to sibling fights, how do you implement that idea to help, parent be a better

Dr.Bashah:

parent?

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Tammy Afriat- Certified Parenting Coach CPC, CYPFC

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