Principal Jono has such a fantastic insight into the social and emotional needs of children. Jono and I spoke about so many things, and we could have chatted for hours longer. Jono has some terrific advice for parents who are sending their children to school in 2022. He also offers his fellow teachers some words of wisdom and gives his opinion on important topics such as inclusive education and integration and how the two differ. I can't wait for you to hear this fantastic episode. I am keen to interview Principal Jono again so please send in your feedback and questions for him. Thanks!!
Principal Jono has such a fantastic insight into the social and emotional needs of children. Jono and I spoke about so many things, and we could have chatted for hours longer. Jono has some terrific advice for parents who are sending their children to school in 2022. He also offers his fellow teachers some words of wisdom and gives his opinion on important topics such as inclusive education and integration and how the two differ. I can't wait for you to hear this fantastic episode. I am keen to interview Principal Jono again so please send in your feedback and questions for him. Thanks!!
Hi, everyone. Welcome to this episode of mumble road. Today we're looking at schools and school communities. Today's discussion will focus on the hugely daunting transition from preschool to kindergarten, specifically for those parents who are sending a child with a disability to school for the first time. Joining us is principal JOHNNo. He is the principal of a school that caters for over 300 students. jhanas school is doing amazing things for children with disabilities, including the little e's who are embarking on their transition to big school, I was able to get the answers to many of the questions that parents of preschool aged children have. How do you start the transition process? How do you communicate with the school? How can parents make this transition easy for their child? How does some teachers make this very complex job looks so effortless? And finally, how can schools do more to support families, particularly those with a child with a disability? Firstly, let's get to know a bit more about Johnny. I didn't realise I wanted to be a teacher until after school. I was actually a 20 year old in a combi van going around Australia on my own and some random backpacker dude, up in the Far North Queensland said to me, you know, you'd be a great teacher. And I reflected on that for the rest of the trip. And when I got back to Sydney, I decided, right, that's what I'm going to do. I couldn't wait to get in the classroom on my own. And when I did, oh my goodness, what an eye opener that was. I started in Granville in Sydney, very multicultural or Arabic and Turkish people. I started on a prac in the sixth term, or, and I'm back crying in the car on the way home because these kids were so tough, and they'll give me such a hard time. And I was very naive when I was doing poetry appreciation lessons at 215. In the afternoon, when the kids had totally tuned out. Yes, I learned very quickly what real world was like, and I've come from a privileged background to grow up in the north shore of Sydney to make the real people was very different, absolutely loved and realised that's where I may be. And then bit by bit as I got more knowledgeable, moved from there to Villawood east. That was probably the first time I've met students with really strong work ethic. And a lot of those families had just come off the boat. And you could see that it was wasn't going to be long before that that was just a stepping stone for them. They were going to move their way up through society through hard work and dedication, just sort of lit from there. I had that opportunity to go Lord Howe Island, then that sort of couple of years there. And then realised that, in fact, I love community. And that little community of Lord Howe Island with 300 people on a rock in the middle of the Tasman Sea, made me realise that was much nicer and better fit for me then the big city. So that's when we moved up to the hunter. And I've been the hunter ever since. So for the last 20 years or so, Jonno, you are a leader of a school now. Why did you choose to rise to the top of your profession within the school environment orientation, probably 30 years now. And there are certain points in your career when you feel you can offer more. There's pros and cons because as you have influence on more people, and as a principal, it's not just the kids you have the influence on it's the staff and the families of the children to to the whole community. But each time you do so you are removed a little bit more from the actual day to day teaching in the classroom with the kids while you have a greater influence, you have less connectivity, that they're just seeing those beautiful moments for the kids growth throughout the year. And so that's the bit you have to give up. Which is unfortunate. Yes, it was a very tough job to decide to do that path. You do an incredible job you lead a school that caters for a very diverse range of learners. However, it does go into the title that's common to people are called a mainstream school. Your professional role is incredibly broad as a result of this. Can you give the listeners a brief overview of the of the different learners that your school caters for and the knowledge and the skills that you as a principal need to have to engage those students within your school? Yeah, well, that's a question I know you can answer it though. You're the man for the job. Break it down into its parts. Yeah. Firstly, let me give you an idea of the setting of the school so I've got a school 300 kids. We have 30 to mainstream classes from kindergarten to e6, and we have three support classes. And we call that the support unit, the unit of three classes, and we have had that unit established in our school for decades. Now, support classes at present, popping up everywhere. In fact, I heard just the other day that they're proposing and a new 90 classes across the hunter in the next handful of years. So they're growing exponentially, because we're seeing so many new diagnoses and people coming forward with the disability. So we're needing to accommodate these students, we've been established for a long time, which has been terrific. So we have staff that are a long term in our school, and very, very good at their craft of looking after the students with disabilities. So I'm going to say when I got there, I'd never been in a school with a support unit before. So there was an awful lot of learning for me, I first arrived, and I took the lead off the support staff there bit, and really learnt a lot from them. And I've got a colleague principals who also had support units as well and would ask them about things. What we're finding these days is that there are students with disabilities everywhere. They're not necessarily just in the support classes. Like we have a huge number of students with disabilities in our mainstream classes as well and also need to be catering for them. How do we do that? We're always doing professional learning. We're learning an awful lot about the different diagnoses because they, they seem to keep changing as well. There was the Add and then became the ad HD. And then it became odd. And then, you know, it just goes on. Yes, this year, I heard a brand new diagnosis I've never heard before, I'm just trying to keep up with the medical profession of what these new diagnoses are, and what that means for educators and how we need to cater for that child in the supporting education settings really complex. And we're learning to more and more about trauma informed practice and how the effects of trauma can look like other diagnoses, where we might be thinking a child has some autistic tendencies, or some ADHD or whatever it might, in fact, be trauma related, our understanding of dealing with the students just gets better and better. But in saying that every day has absolutely wonderful moments where you've seen growth in these kids. But every day presents challenges too, because what might work on last three days doesn't work today, and we're gonna keep reflecting on our practices and changing them up. But the success comes, I think, the two things that you have a really dynamic team around you, and you trust in their abilities, and you will push forward as a team. And then the second one is the relationships with the kids and their families. And as I said, we've got those great moments, we've also got those difficult moments. And if you can build those relationships with the families and the kids and have been depositing into those emotional bank accounts, celebrate the great times will when there is a difficult time we can navigate it together and have that trust between home and school that we're doing the best kids. Excellent. Wow, John, oh, just listening to that. And I'm sure the listeners who tune into this podcast will feel the same. That gives us a little bit of an insight into the capabilities of your role, your professional practice, every day bans from interpreting medical diagnosis, right through from being a pillar of the community, and a real sounding board for families and staff members. I am just actually or have you right now, what a terrific job that you do. The majority of the listeners and the families that I deal personally with have a link to somebody with additional needs. You have been in the industry for 30 years. Could you just give us a couple of sentences about what you've seen in the realm of inclusion in your professional practice? Yeah, I'm seeing that we are getting better and better at it. As the years go on. There's a greater understanding amongst the whole community as the importance of inclusivity needs to be distinguishment between what inclusivity is, it's about a full the full coming together of kids with disabilities. With the main population integration is a bit different. It's thing having children with disabilities within a mainstream setting, which is pretty much what the way our school is, has been set up. And those kids within our support classes, they come in, they integrate so they come out to the playground and join the rest of the school population, but they're at our assemblies, but they are within they stick within their own classes for the majority of the day. Yes, if a child shows some adeptness of a certain subject, they might then go and visit a mainstream class for that Lesson, and so on, but on the whole, they're grouped together. Okay, that's more as integration, whereas inclusivity be right I talked about earlier, where you've got kids with disabilities in the mainstream classes, working with the kids with full ability all day long. That's why I hinted earlier about where I see us going in the future. A couple of years ago, I did an exchange with a Canadian principal from Vancouver. And that involved her coming over here for 10 days. And then I went over there and stayed there for 10 days, when she walked into my school and saw the support classes, as distinct from mainstream, she said, Oh, you're still doing this? Are you there? I looked at her and said, What's what you're talking about? And she said, Oh, yeah, we went down that road. And we found that what was going on was, the classes will be created exponentially. Does that sound familiar? And it just got out of hand and silly. So we abandoned that idea. And we went back to full inclusion, so that all students, whether disabled or not learn together in schools, and the appropriate supports are provided. So if you got a severe disability, you've got lots of personality, mild disability, you just have accommodations, so and went into the schools and have a look around, and they seem to be a genuine inclusivity going on, which is terrific. So I'm wondering if maybe down the track, New South Wales or Australian schools systems might might see that as the future. In saying that, though, what we have currently is what we have, what we do have a president, we do well, hugely proud of the public education system, because they will never say no to providing the properties and the access for students who need it. If we know that a child is coming to our school, and we know that they need certain certain properties, let's say, you know, we need a new ramp in the school, we need the handrails on the stairwells, or whatever it might be, the Department of Education will fork out the money to make sure those facilities are available. And if we've got enough, notice, they'll be ready. On day one, the natural order arrives, and we're talking hundreds of 1000s of dollars, in some cases to get that school prepared for that trial, which is a real testament to ensuring that the school system caters for the needs of the students. It's excellent. Yeah. So that's the properties. And then of course, if we need the personnel, we have ways of making sure that happens as well, to a point, sometimes, you know, we have the capability, sometimes the child's needs exceeds the capability of one setting, but then that goes to a panel, and we look at other cities that does kind of lecture. Wow. It's fascinating. And it is incredible to hear that insight into how the school does prepare for children with additional needs. I am a parent of a child with a disability. And some mornings, I am incredibly stressed just getting my own child to their schooling setting, I feel overwhelmed, their siblings might not have been dressed in time. And we arrived at the school gate and quite foster I and many, many other families hand our children over to you in our state of stress. Sometimes you as a principal in your amazing staff receive them and and set our mind at ease. When you see a parents face like mine sometimes, who had a morning, like I've had many of them, how do you respond in a way to give them that sense of ease when you know, you can evidently say that they've had a tricky morning, talk us through what goes through your mind in the transition the child from the parent into your school community, we understand it as most, most teachers are also parents themselves. We've all been there. We've all had those mornings, we understand completely, I guess the first thing is there are no judgments, we get it. So then what I think we are best at offering is routine, and calm and comfort. And we also come from a team approach as well. So we have an identity that might be already off at work and you're trying to do it on your own in the mornings when you get to school that soften not just the one staff member but a team so we can work together to ensure that that child transitions across the school day calm environment where we the staff can support each other and make sure that calmness and that routine starts from the outset. Excellent. So we have just briefly touched on being in a stressful state sometimes and I'm talking about my own personal experience here, your professional practice and you lead a team of staff you would have stressful days and stressful weeks. How do you defrag or how do you come back from a day that's been particularly stressful or a week that's been particularly stressful? And and review or Go over your practice in a way that can keep your personal stress under control. And also, you need to be firing on a four or fours to support your staff. So can you just talk us through a little bit of the stress management process that you go through to ensure it's funny, so we're going to be firing on all four cylinders? I, I used to work for a principal who would come in on Sundays and say are, John, I'm only firing on 11 cylinders today, looking at you presuming that you're a 12 cylinder, man. Yeah, you got the big engine heavy. You're absolutely right there. It is a stressful job. You get hit from so many different angles. You've got the kids, the staff, the parents, you've got all the expectations from the department coming down on you. You've got the community expectations. Yeah, the hits just keep coming. You think everything's going smoothly? I should never presume that because the next seconds, something blows up, and then you're at it again, I think you've the way I deal with it is that I'm very conscious of what I have an influence over and what I don't. So I'm always reflecting on what's my sphere of influence? How can I affect this situation? How can I deal with this to a point and then forget about the rest, the rest just will happen? Anyway, there's been a real push for all teachers, principals lately to make sure that you're looking after your own well being as a priority. And they always use that analogy of when you're on the plane and the Bs socket, things come down is face to face mask on your own face first, before you assist the people around you. Talk about that a lot. With the well being as well, in schools, I rely on coming home and debriefing with my wife is very good. Chocolate and alcohol. Excellent. Just going out with friends is very important to ensure exercise and sleep over usual. Yeah, well, that's really great. I'm very conscious of the the well being aspect of the position that you have, because of the responsibility that you have to so many people, I am just going to shift a little bit of a gear here, particularly at this time of the year, it's term three, a lot of the people that I deal personally with parents who have children who will be transitioning into kindergarten next year, in the coming year, and they often have additional needs. They're not yet in a school environment, they've not had exposure to principles and schools and routines. Could you just give us a little bit of an insight, or some advice for those parents of children may have children who may have additional needs? How would you offer them advice to equip them with that transition into their schooling life? I think the key is communication. If your child has already added some sort of Early Childhood Education Centre, then the staff they will know the child very well schools talk to parents, but they also talk to the directors and the staff at these early childcare centres to get a really good insight and the profile of the children coming board. In the kinder. A lot of schools also have great transition programmes, you know, they might have orientation sessions, maybe just three or four or five of those in turn for a lot of schools now also, doing extra transition programmes such as our school, for instance, is doing throughout term three, doing like a playgroup every Friday. So that gives an additional chance to really get to know the students parents are there while the students are there for an hour or an hour and a half each time. And so it gives you a great ability to then talk to the staff of the school and let them know what your concerns and anxieties and so on. And although this is a new experience for you, as a parent, moving your child into the school environment, good to remember the the staff at school have done this year after year after year. And although they have never quite met a unique person, like your own child, they will have dealt with children like your child before and and know and feel confident about how to handle them. They I think most teachers get into teaching because they care about others. And I think it'd be looking hard to find a teacher at a school that doesn't care about the children coming in, and they will listen intently they'll listen to what your concerns are, and they will do their utmost to put you at ease because I think sometimes a lot of the anxiety that comes from the child staying school is not from the child themselves. But from the parent often the kids on day one they'll quite happily take the hand at the child next to them and walk in two lines down to the classroom while the parents are there sobbing in at the assembly. That was me. Yeah. Those anxieties should be alive knowing that the staff They will do their utmost to look after your child does go and get that coffee. Yes. And relax. Look, if you have any concerns in those days leading up to school, the days after school starts, just keep talking to the staff. It's that ongoing, clear and transparent communication that will soon bring all those fears and anxieties to wrist. Excellent. You just touched on the programme that your school offers that playgroup. And just from a parent's perspective, this is amazing. So again, you've you've spoken to us about what your school offers a new as a as a leader. And then there's another, this programme that's run, presumably by staff at your school, in addition to the teaching staff, or is this is that the kindy teachers that run this programme or they do bring extra staffing because just from my perspective, that is an incredibly valuable experience. And again, testament to the New South Wales Department of Education and your school particularly for putting this initiative together. Who runs that playgroup? It is the school staff. That's amazing stuff. So we, we might collapse support programmes at that point. So we have our class teachers, but we we have a suite of specialist teachers too, who go in to classrooms to support remedial reading and things like that. So we will utilise those peripheral staff, in order to do these programmes, will also get Kindle teachers off class to come in and visit during this transition programmes as well. So yes, it keeps us busy. It gets us on our toes, but it's a wonderful programme to be able to offer. So how do you get to that point, you have a four or five year old who you know, will require additional supports within their learning environment. It really liked them to start kindergarten at their local school. When and how do you start communicating with the school? Who do you talk to, if you have a child with disability coming in, and you feel that they are not suitable for the mainstream setting, and you want to get them into a support class from the get go. At the beginning of kindergarten, there's a process. And this is one that some parents may not know about. You see, as the principal of my school, I'm responsible for the enrollments of all the kids that go into the mainstream classes that are not responsible for the placements of children going into the support classes that is done by a panel, a district office. And that process involves something called an access request, which is a digital document that we have to write up giving the profile of the child. And then that's submitted to district office. And there are twice a term, a panel looks at all those applications, and looks at how many vacancies there are in the classes at my school and the surrounding schools. And then places those students accordingly, on the basis of need, unfortunately, there might sometimes be 10 applications or only five vacancies. And so an application may have to go to a number of panels before the child gets a placement. And the parent and the principal have no idea where that child may end up, they might end up at a local school, but there may be no vacancy, so they have to go to a neighbouring school. So that's how that works. Now, in order to get an access request written for a child, a four year old, who isn't yet at school, you need to contact your zoned school and talk to them about the needs of your child and the setting that you would like them in and then that school can start writing the access request on your behalf and submitting that. That's really great. That's really that's a really good clean pathway for those parents who are in that position. Yes, to know what to do. Again, you did say to contact the zone school, so that's really a good first step. So they're the public school that the that their home is zoned into. Yes, great advice. Go to the department website to find out which school is your zone school. If not just ring the local school and ask, they'll be able to get very quickly. Excellent. And it's also the parents choice as to what setting you want your child in. We've had examples. I've had a lovely girl who was severe cerebral palsy, wheelchair bound needed to be changed. We had to get her and slings and all sorts of things. Now, her parents were adamant that they wanted her in a mainstream classroom. And so that's what we did. That worked really well worked really well. There are really three tiers there's the mainstream is support classes within a mainstream school. And then there's a support school. nearest one to us in the Maitland area would be Hunter River Community School students with perhaps more severe disabilities would go to school that setting so you've got your three tiers, but I just want to reiterate that it is the Parents Choice That's great. That's a really great point to, to end on with that, with that topic. Thank you for that description. That's excellent. On, because I feel like I've got you here and you're such a wealth of knowledge, we've spoken about the parent perspective, there are some terrific and passionate teachers out there. You've had a wealth of experience within the education industry, for some newer teachers, or some teachers that are within the industry and looking for some advice, or some some words of wisdom. What are those words of wisdom or advice or tips for your fellow teachers within the education industry as yet another big one. But awesome chocolate, I think the reason teacher goes into teaching is because of their passion, passion for the education of children, and just getting each child to reach their potential. And there is nothing more delightful per teacher than you know, that little note or that little comment that they make, or that you taught them the previous year, and they come back and they just tell you how much they loved having you as a teacher the previous year, it is, is no greater reward. There are so many other stresses, the workload and all the other bits and pieces go with it. But it's just those little moments like that, that overbalance I guess, the positives and some negatives. So you just got to keep that passion and realise the difference you make? Absolutely. Wow. Well, John, oh, I know you as a personal friend. And I admire you because of your professional capacity, and what you do within your school and your community. I've known you for many years, and I've always respected your work and your dedication to roll. I feel so lucky to have had this interview with you today. I really want to thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Emily. And I really appreciate what you're doing the families of students with disabilities as well. Thank you. And I think we'll go out and buy each other some chocolate now. That's it for this episode. A closer look at the transition from preschool to kindergarten. I'm Emily Baitch, developmental educator, teacher and mum to three beautiful children. One though, is on the autism spectrum. You can find me on Instagram, Facebook, and the web. Just search mumble road. We're all here to help each other. And remember, every road starts with small steps. Until next time, bye