Neurolicious - by Mummel Road
Parenting can be a tough gig, parenting a child with additional need can be even tougher! How would I know? I am a parent of 3 beautiful children one of whom has a disability. Professionally, I also support parents of children with additional needs. I wanted to bring my personal perspective and my professional knowledge and network together to offer listeners a place to learn and feel comfort. There will be something for everyone on the Mummel Road podcast. Wanting to know more? You can find me on socials @mummelroadEnjoy!Em
Neurolicious - by Mummel Road
When Your Child with Autism Becomes a Teen: A Mother's Story
The Neurolicious Podcast brings valuable insights to parents navigating autism. In this episode, we dive deep into the challenges of puberty.
Meet Leeanne Hawke
Leeanne Hawke is a mother, advocate, and expert by experience in raising a child with autism. Her journey with her 17-year-old son has given her unique insights into the challenges and joys of parenting a neurodivergent teenager.
Leeanne’s approach combines practical wisdom with heartfelt empathy, making her an invaluable resource for other parents on similar paths. Her openness about both the struggles and triumphs offers a realistic view of life with an autistic teen.
Through her experiences, Leeanne has become a beacon of hope and support for the autism community, sharing strategies that have worked for her family and offering encouragement to others.
This episode discusses instances of children becoming agitated and using aggression as a form of communication. If you are concerned about someone in your home please seek support from these resources:
https://www.familyrelationships.gov.au/talk-someone/advice-line
https://www.orangedoor.vic.gov.au/
https://intouch.org.au/
https://www.beyondblue.org.au/
For regular updates and recaps of episodes, please keep and eye on our Facebook or instagram page
If you are wanting to support this podcast, please subscribe and follow our podcast.
Mummel Road Community Programs is a registered charity offering adolescents on the autism spectrum the opportunity to engage with their community in a meaningful way. To learn more about our charity or donate please read more here
Mummel Road Members get weekly support session with Emily, our advanced positive behaviour support practitioner. Learn more about our members hub here.
If you are wanting to share your story with the Neurolicious Community, please reach out to us at info@mummelroad.com.au
Hello friends, welcome to the Neuralicious podcast.
Speaker 2:This is a space where we can talk openly about parenting neurodiverse kids.
Speaker 1:I'm Emily, founder and director of Mumble Road, an NDIS registered autism specific service. I'm also the mum of three kids, and my eldest has a ton of neuro spice and I'm Kylie.
Speaker 2:I'm a paediatric occupational therapist who has a special interest in ADHD, autism and building connection with kids who don't really seem to like anyone. We are the brains trust you need and we hope the Neuralicious podcast helps you learn a few things and feel not so alone.
Speaker 1:So settle in for another episode on Neuralicious. Welcome to the Neuralicious podcast. Welcome to the Neuralicious podcast.
Speaker 2:Today we're talking about what happens when your child with autism becomes a teenager. If your child hasn't reached their teens yet, it's likely that you're anticipating the changes that can occur in their behavioural bodies and really their whole world. So to help us with this challenging topic and time in everyone's life, we're speaking to Leanne Hawke. Leanne wears so many hats in the neurodiverse world she is a staff member at Hunter Aspect School, she's an advocate for individuals on the autism spectrum and, most importantly, she is the mum of Riley. Welcome, leanne, thank you so much.
Speaker 3:It's an absolute pleasure to be here today. I'm very excited.
Speaker 1:Good yeah, we're excited too. We know that you're very busy. You are a very busy lady, so thanks for sparing some time to come and chat to us today. Thank you. Riley is a 17-year-old boy. He has favourite things food and people just like everyone else. He's also on the autism spectrum. Leanne, was there a moment when you started to think Riley might be starting puberty now, or isn't so much of a child anymore?
Speaker 3:I'm not going to lie. Puberty has been very tough for all of our family, and I did lots of research, as you do as a parent, and read that children on the spectrum experience puberty so much more intensely than every other neurotypical child Probably. The signs that we saw were, you know the typical ones getting hair in places that he'd never had before, a real growth spurt, you know lots more language and conversational type stuff and, of course, becoming so much taller, particularly taller than me, and he just wasn't my little baby anymore.
Speaker 1:They sound like tricky stages for every child, but I can imagine with Riley they were particularly difficult because there's lots of things that you need to communicate with him.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely. All the behaviour that had never happened before was also really challenging.
Speaker 1:Yeah, could you speak to that? Was there any change in his usual behaviour going through this initial puberty phase or in the centre of the puberty transition For puberty?
Speaker 3:Riley, it kind of just happened overnight and it was kind of about towards the end of the puberty transition. For puberty, riley, it kind of just happened overnight and it was kind of about towards the end of the year. So it's kind of putting it down to is it just the end of the year and he's really tired or hang on, something's going on here. But we saw lots of increased defiance. What had always been really successful with us is doing that first, then, and people that aren't part of the autism world, you know it's first you do this, then you do that, and the then is usually something desirable. So that had always been so successful for us. But now it just was not working. Riley would just put his foot down Sleep patterns, which I think is pretty neurotypical for any teenager. But that, and still today, is quite a challenge. Not wanting to get out of bed in the morning, staying up until midnight, 1am, the whole public, private concept has been a real challenge for us, which I think it is for a lot of kids on the spectrum, just in general understanding, and particularly because I think you go through that little kid phase where you know clothes aren't really an option, open door policies at home and then all of a sudden you go, oh, hang on, maybe we need to stop that and limit what we're wearing around the house and having doors closed and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:His obsessions became much more intensified kind of thing. His obsessions became much more intensified. Riley loves the wiggles, so it was wiggles or nothing. He has things set up in the house that no one can touch, and so that became much more intensified and very much related to his anxiety that he's always had, but that anxiety just exploded. Of course, the not so good part was the aggression, which was a big concern, particularly how much bigger he was becoming. And so much of that was directed at me as mom and his person. I get to see the best but also the not so great things. And the last bit is that he developed epilepsy. So from around 10, the epilepsy developed and he was having seizures which were really hard for him to manage and understand what was happening, and so it had a big impact on his behavior as well. You know, riley also has an intellectual delay, so we're dealing with a teenager with lots of teenage hormones but with the capacity and the developmental capacity of like a four-year-old. So it was like the perfect storm.
Speaker 1:I can really empathise and sympathise with you on both levels with that. What do you think, Kylie, when you hear that recap of Riley, when you think about things like the public and private space that we just spoke about, how do you see those difficulties being really hard for people? So things like knowing where there's a private place to go to the toilet and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, while you were speaking, Leanne, it really became apparent to me how, when you're dealing with, say, a neurotypical child, the answer just because is good enough, so you don't do that just because, and they go okay then. But when you're dealing with the neurodivergent community or the neurodiverse community, they really need the why, why am I not doing it, why am I not able to do that? Why is that not appropriate? And then when you also have the communication barriers, it would be really tough and also, I would assume, frustrating, because you're also, leanne, like you're a mother, but you're also a human being navigating this world. So it must have been so stressful to navigate that for yourself, not just for Riley.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we had to change the way that we did everything and how we supported Riley.
Speaker 1:Leanne, you did mention that some of the strategies that you were using up until this transition to puberty was so effective. So, with this change, can you talk to us about how you did change strategies or approach to really support Riley and yourselves, to keep him and yourself safe?
Speaker 3:to really support Riley and yourselves to keep him and yourself safe. Yeah, what you were saying, kylie, about the communication and needing to explain that, why is exactly what happened for us? We had to prepare Riley for every detail of the day lots of visual supports you know he wanted to see the picture of where we were going on the phone lots of repetitive talk, lots of reassurance and obviously that's very much linked to his anxiety, which he's always had. But, as I said, it was just intensified and our autism kitties love repetition, they love structure, they love routines. So now that's just become part of his routine that we haven't been able to kind of move on from. And we got a psychologist on board really early. Zoe was incredible at sort of guiding us particularly around the puberty stuff and that step-by-step process. She sort of specialises in autistic young people and sexuality and puberty. So she was giving us lots of tips more than Glenn and I, my husband and how we sort of manage that day-to-day stuff and really having a transparent, open communication between Riley's whole team. So he's therapist, he's psychologist, he's pediatrician and, most importantly, he's teachers as well. So we were all using the same language, we were all doing the same supports, we were all being really predictable, all sort of following the same goals that we wanted for Riley, and we also have lots of non-negotiables.
Speaker 3:So, as I said, you know they don't like change. Riley particularly doesn't like change. So we have some non-negotiables in our house. Riley only wears a red shirt literally every day, except for his school uniform. So it's you know, he wears a red shirt, there's no arguing about that. And he also takes his guitar everywhere Again, no arguing about that. And certain pieces of furniture we do not move, and his little space on the dining room table we do not move. So they're sort of our non-negotiables that keep his anxiety down, which is, as I'd mentioned before, because of his wanting to keep everything the same. That has just now stayed in place.
Speaker 1:That's really great to hear all those strategies. I'm sure that's going to be helpful for the listeners as well who are going through this same patch as well. And there are other things that we do have to change, though, aren't there, like you stated? So riding that wave when there is a small change, for example, if a teacher is away or Glenn's away for work, that sort of thing. So sometimes I imagine that you do have to ride a tricky wave when those things happen, and you do that with visual supports and lots of preparation, I imagine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. And going back to what you said, kylie, about the why. So if things have changed, this is why, mate, we need to do this instead of this today. We need to go this way. You know that kind of thing and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't work and you know everything goes out the window and we can't do that. But it's just that reassurance for Riley about what's happening and the why it's happening. And it's kind of like that toddler thing it's. You know toddlers always ask but why? But why, why? So it's, it's going back to that.
Speaker 2:I think that's fair, like if I was Riley navigating the world. I don't think it's too much to ask the why to get that understanding, especially if in his own way, he is processing it. Even for me every day is different, so some days I'm going to be like, yep, I can take that in my stride, and then other days, not so much.
Speaker 2:So, you know yeah, you did mention that when Riley started to go through puberty, he did get aggressive with you. How did you manage? Or how do you manage now that, because you're right, he would have the strength of a man, essentially, and it doesn't really matter how tough you are as a woman? Yeah, when it comes down to that mechanics, we generally don't have the strength to fight off an aggressive male coming towards us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that I think, has been the absolute hardest part of this whole process of, you know, moving from a child to, you know, basically an adult. Aggression has intensified and over the last couple of years I've become better at seeing the signs and stopping it before it gets really bad. But the flip side of that, I guess, is that I'm really hard on myself because I've given in. So it's that really fine balance because you know you don't want to give in and let him sort of get everything, because things just don't go away all the time, yeah, at 1 o'clock in the morning and on a school night and not getting to bed and he's tired, and that aggression is sort of often when it comes out in the afternoons and late at night. And you know, I have had some really scary moments, particularly in the car. I remember when I saw my psychologist for myself and I was sort of explaining the aggression to her and she sort of said well, you're living in a domestic violence relationship and I'll try not to get too upset and hearing those words it's like that's so true. You know, if it was your partner that was doing this you would be leaving in a second. But when it's your child. How do you manage that? So I've just sort of really try and protect myself.
Speaker 3:I you know, fortunately, as being an aspect staff member. We do what they call MAPA training and safety intervention training. So I've got some good blocks that I can do and and knowing how to I guess have a bit of an escape route so I can at least get out of the way and try and talk him back down and kind of get him back to a calm space. But when he is at that aggression and we are coming back down, he is quite remorseful of that and he just wants a hug and he just wants to feel really supported. So that's also really tough for a mum because he can get over it relatively quickly.
Speaker 3:Where I've got that sort of trauma response, where and I've been in that fight and flight and my coming down is so much longer than he's coming down, so you know, oh, then he'll be settled and you know, perhaps then he's gone to bed and you know I'm getting in the shower bawling my eyes out, which I guess is a very natural response. But then you know that's a whole mother guilt comes in and you know you're feeling like a horrible parent because you've sort of got these thoughts of your child that you know, oh he's just hit me, but you know you've got to remove the behaviour, remove the child from the behaviour and know that he's not doing it intentionally. So the aggression is definitely the hardest part to live with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great you're getting that support professionally as well. To acknowledge that because that's the step to say it is hard, your road is incredibly hard, and to validate those feelings. So when you are crying in the shower you can say I have a right to feel sad. We've got practices in place to help Riley long-term and I guess that the goal is to help him develop some other skills eventually when he's ready with the support, but for the moment it must be so incredibly hard. So thanks for explaining that, because I know a lot of listeners would be in this same boat. And it is described as a domestic violence situation because you feel like you could get hurt.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is interesting to hear about some of the strategies or just the knowledge about physically blocking to keep everybody safe and moving away safely as well, so they're really good areas to explore for other parents who are in a similar situation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and there's. You know it's something. It's a topic that often isn't talked about because there is also a lot of shame around it as well. So it's not something that you know. I'll advertise that this is what happens, but you know, it is the reality of what a lot of parents with autistic children are living with.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yes, I would agree with that. Working in the field, we both do. You know we do see and hear reports of this often and it does need to have a light shined upon it so that when all the parents are having a cry in the shower, they know that they're not alone Exactly yeah. So thanks so much for sharing that. Really, it is a private story To some respect. Like you said, you don't advertise it, but it's really important to discuss it. So thanks for going into that really vulnerable space. I imagine it's also hard for Glenn to see you. At the end of the day, he's a very supportive dad. So that is Riley's dad. He's a wonderful parent and a wonderful man. And the impact of him on him maybe not directly because he's not there to witness it, but he then has to he must have some difficult thoughts to process as well. Can you talk to that at all?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know that Glenn does feel. I guess he has a lot of guilt around that as well, because the aggression isn't aimed at him and it's often when Glenn is not home. The nature of Glenn's work is means that he does travel quite frequently and often for sort of a week at a time. So Riley's as I mentioned before, I'm his person and that's that consistent part of his life. So when Glenn is home he will often push Glenn away and again, I think that's very much related to Riley sort of just wanting to keep that consistent environment, me being his person, you know daddy's home and taking mummy's attention away from me and that kind of thing. I think it's a combination of things. So unfortunately that's kind of the reality for our family when Glenn is away and then when he is home as well. So if Glenn is around, however, they have a beautiful bond together and I'll often step out, so that's when I'll go out, which is also respite for me, and the two of them just have the best time together, which I think really then helps them when the three of us are at home. That you know, daddy can do things and it's that why. So you know, when Glenn does come into the kitchen and Riley's saying go away, daddy. It's like no daddy's here to do the dishes or he's helping with dinner and it's giving that why Glenn's in his space, which works really well for us, and then Riley will invite Glenn into his space.
Speaker 3:And when the three of us are home I'd mentioned that Riley is a huge Wiggle fan it's the three of us putting on little shows, going over Wiggle songs and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:And Riley loves mirrors, so it's all of us standing in front of a mirror doing our dances and that kind of thing. So it does sort of foster that relationship between the three of us. But when I'm not home they have a great relationship and have lots of favorite things to do that Riley doesn't let me do with him, like going to the pool and you know, going for drives around the beach and that kind of thing doing certain wiggles dances that you know, oh, that's just a daddy and me thing, that's not a mummy thing, and you know will tell me to go away. So it's really great that they have their own little things that they do and Riley and I have our own little things that we do, and then there's wiggle songs in particular that we all have to do together. So you know, if Glenn's doing his work downstairs, it's like Daddy, come upstairs, we're doing. You know this particular song now.
Speaker 1:Great, that's so nice to hear. I really love hearing that. That's a beautiful recap and the fact that you do have your different things and Glenn has his space with Riley as well, which is so nice. So I guess some of our listeners would be hearing this story and they may have younger children and they are thinking about when their child does get to this stage, when they're bigger in size. Are there any things that you could suggest to help them prepare as a family for this transition?
Speaker 3:Just being prepared for it is a big one, and knowing what's coming, because it isn't often easy. For some autistic kids it is quite a simple process, but I think for the very large majority it is a period where there is so much change and so much brain development and behavioural changes and size changes and, as autistic children don't like change, it is really difficult for them to be able to process and know the why this is happening to me. So I think just being really prepared for it and being open to that it's going to happen, we can't stop it from happening. So you may need to change the strategies that may have always worked for you and look into other strategies. And I think also is being really transparent with your child's team. So having all the therapists, particularly the teachers as well, communicating with them and being really honest about what's happening to get you know everybody supporting your child.
Speaker 2:I think that's a really good one to put out there as well, that the whole team needs to be on the same page and doing the same things, or it gets quite confusing for everybody. The whole team needs to be on the same page and doing the same things, or it gets quite confusing for everybody.
Speaker 1:The whole team needs to be ready to adjust, don't they as a team Like? That's important. The team can't be stuck in the same strategies either. You mentioned that you did seek a support from a puberty specialist who just focuses on that, and they can then guide the whole team, who may not be specialists in that adolescent era, and I think as a whole team. You know Kylie would be well and truly understanding this as an OT that the strategies have to change all the time, and that's a really good reminder for the team to work together in that capacity.
Speaker 2:I really liked the idea of like we need just to pivot a bit. I was just thinking because I've met Riley before and I know Charlie B there's a point where in everyone's life you sort of realize that you have free will and that's not outside of this space either. So I think maybe neurotypical kiddos realise they have free will, maybe before puberty, where this is like a perfect storm of everything's changing inside me and I can also say no and get my own way using these different strategies and we're sort of playing catch-up of what's going on?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's you know. You completely summarise that perfectly. I find that, with Charlie B just focusing on my own son, where he used to be any trip to the park, he'd be like I'm coming, I love the swing. He got to puberty and he's like no, I'm like, but, mate, it's the swing.
Speaker 1:You love the swing or a trip to Kmart, and he's like no, I'm like but, mate, it's the swing, you love the swing. Or a trip to Kmart, and he did then start to put his foot down and it was difficult. We did have to, like you, adjust our strategies, but that's a really good insight into where the difference between typical developing children who do have that agency a little bit earlier, and so the puberty is that perfect storm. So thanks for bringing that up.
Speaker 2:That's a really good point. Just listening to your conversation it kind of just popped into my head.
Speaker 1:I was like oh wow, yeah, the whole.
Speaker 2:I don't want to do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and our speech therapist was great around that and giving Riley that self-autonomy that you know he can say no to things and she sort of really then educated the staff, his teachers, that we do need respect. So when Riley tells us to go away and we're in his space, we need to respect that and say, yeah, I'm going to go away, I'm just over here, but if you need me and respect that, that he needs some space and we're still in eyesight, we're still in earshot and we're going to respect what you're telling us.
Speaker 2:We are approaching the end of our time with you, leanne, to finish each interview on Eurolicious, we like to hear about what you are nailing and what you are failing at home.
Speaker 1:Leanne doesn't fail anything.
Speaker 2:I was just about to say my list of failings seems to be getting longer by the week. But I have to add here that you seem to be nailing a lot of things. So let's hear it from your perspective. What do you think you're nailing and failing?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I must be just a very good actress or working around a lot of autistic kids. I'm really good at masking or working around a lot of autistic kids. I'm really good at masking. But I think what I'm failing at the moment, and particularly with the return to school, is Riley is still very much on holiday time and the going to bed and getting up is a bit of a nightmare. So we're all tired and I'm not going very well at trying to change that pattern. What I'm nailing is I am so excited to be part of the aspect float for Mardi Gras this year, so I've just spent the morning searching and buying my outfit and I've nailed it.
Speaker 2:I've nailed it, I'm so excited I love that one. And I just went oh my God, have a float, I know.
Speaker 1:Kylie's brain is just blowing up right now. So yes, it's amazing. Oh my gosh, I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, em. Well, look, I have had quite the week, not for the best reasons, to be honest, what I'm failing at is food. I find that in my home I have these visions and on my Facebook feed I get all these great recipes about how to keep kids healthy, but I just struggle. My food is great, I try to eat really well, but my kids I feel like I am failing on that front. I feel like I am failing on that front Making and helping them to eat kind of better, I guess, less packaged, blah, blah, blah, all the stuff that you should do. So I feel like I doom scroll myself at night into a bit of a corner. I keep reading the stats about veggies and all that sort of stuff and it does not help. So I'm trying to reduce, like I'm trying to increase homemade food and snacks and stuff, but like there's just not enough time in the day, I find that's what I'm working on, but it's not all bad. So I feel like I nailed Charlie B's birthday present.
Speaker 1:So this year, charlie B, he asked for a GoPro and yeah and he did. He sort of pointed to it and he loves mowing and he loves doing a few things, and so I got it for him and I got him a vest which attaches the GoPro on his chest so he can wear it and mow the lawn. We have to help him, but he is. He's able to mow the lawn for about 10 minutes with that and then watch it and I feel like it's a really great time that he's engaged in a meaningful activity and it's just made his world like.
Speaker 1:It's just brought so much happiness to him and I feel like sometimes we've assumed he's happy or said, oh, you love the swing. Therefore that's the only thing. This is something he genuinely wanted and we got it for him and he's relishing in that. And I tell you I'm getting goosies because that, like other people and other parents might say, well, that's easy, it's not. It's not for us in the neurodiverse world, but to find a present that he genuinely wanted and genuinely uses is just floating my boat all over the shop. So, yep, that is my nailing it for this week.
Speaker 2:That is a great one. That is such a good one.
Speaker 1:I think so, yeah, yeah. So, kylie, let's hear yours. Come on, put in what else you said. Remember we have a timeframe, carl. So it's like we have to stick to the answer. There's no tangents, no segues. We don't want to hear about your side project. Nope, I'm very very focused.
Speaker 2:I even took a note. I am nailing it at. I finally got my room somewhat sorted after finishing uni, so got everything sort of packed away and all of my doom piles hidden Definitely not sorted, but definitely hidden. However, I am going to end it on a little bit of a downer with my failing it. I am really struggling to meet my family demands while also finding time for my social engagement, for mental health. I was sort of saying to Em on the drive in today it's like you've got to just fit yourself in around everybody else and I don't do well with that. I don't like not being a priority and I know that as a mum you're not going to say that, but I just really want to just be me. So 2025, 2020, thrive oh.
Speaker 2:I love it I stole it off Tony and Ryan the podcast oh they don't need to know. Loved it. But, yes, so for my mental health I really need to make it a priority that there's something carved out in the week for me.
Speaker 1:Do you know, I think when you're ready, when you acknowledge that and you had time to notice it, then you're ready Like you had time to notice it, then you're ready Like you had time to think I want to do something for myself. That means that it is you're ready to pounce and just do it. That's amazing. I think they're really great things, both things that you've done well and the fact that you want some time for yourself. I mean, goodness me, I think you can do that, yep, I think it's doable. I think you can do that, yep.
Speaker 2:I think it's doable and you just have to go. You know what? No, you get a lot of my time. I'm going to go and do something, yeah, and not feel bad.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I just want to remind kind of going from your nice segue into reminding parents, family and carers just to be really kind to yourself and find little snippets in the day where you can have to yourself or take a breather. Mine is hanging the washing out in the line. You know it's not much fun, but I will do that really slowly and then I'll walk back into the house really slowly, just you know, feeling the sun on my face and taking a breather. So that's my little tip that just find those little snippets, even having a two minute extra long shower, wherever you can find those little bits where there's no one else, it's just you and you get to take that big deep breath.
Speaker 2:That's a good one it is.
Speaker 1:It's like a mini break. Yeah, exactly, I was going to say for autism mums and dads. Those mini breaks are just, even if it's two minutes. I think that that's a really good snapshot of the challenges that we can face and the relentlessness. So the fact that you can relish in that moment of peace of hanging out the washing, but that's really important that you've said that is time. So you've got to appreciate that and you do, and that's going to take it you so far. So I hope other parents that are listening use that to themselves understand where they can get even two minutes of mindfulness and peace in a day.
Speaker 3:Yep, thank you for sharing that. Yeah well, we all hear this. You know self-care and that kind of thing and you kind of think, oh well, how am I going to fit that into my schedule?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll go to Hawaii, but it can just yeah it can just be two minutes.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Do you know? Just one more thing saying what do you do? And I remember saying I actually have hand cream next to where I wash my hands and literally just after washing my hands, putting on hand cream. And that was my 30 seconds to myself, because my hands smelt nice and my friends were like you have gone insane. But I said, well, that's the reality I live with. I can't leave my son unsupervised. So I've got 30 seconds, so I've got to live with that. And I did. Yeah, look, that's all we have time for today. Leanne Hawke, it's been an absolute pleasure to spend some time with you today. You continue to work so tirelessly and hard to advocate for individuals on the autism spectrum and all of the autism mums, dads, grandparents, kids are really lucky to have you not only in the space but just your voice advocating for families. So this is the start of many important conversations.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me and asking me. It's been a privilege, thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on the Neuralicious podcast. Thanks for joining us on the Neuralicious podcast.
Speaker 2:If you've enjoyed this conversation and want to find out more, head to the Mumble Road Facebook page, where we share moments from the podcast and so much more Like stories you can relate to and we'll ask you, the Neuralicious community, how things are going at your place.
Speaker 1:We'll also answer your questions whenever we can. Until next time, be kind to yourself.