Burnt Mills Cider: Crafting New Jersey’s Finest Hard Ciders in Bedminster

On this episode of Greetings from the Garden State, I visit Burnt Mills Cider in Bedminster, NJ, and sit down with owners John Coates and Miranda Meade to talk all things cider. From their early beginnings to launching in the middle of a pandemic, Burnt Mills has built a reputation for crafting high-quality, locally sourced ciders that showcase the best of New Jersey produce.

We dive into the art of cider-making, the challenges of sourcing the right apples, and how Burnt Mills uses everything from Jersey-grown blueberries to cranberries and even beets in their seasonal and flagship ciders. Plus, we sample some of their best offerings—including a cider that tastes just like a fresh apple cider donut.

Whether you’re a cider aficionado or just looking for a new local spot to check out, this episode is packed with insight, history, and plenty of great drink recommendations.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• The history of Burnt Mills Cider and how they started in the middle of the pandemic
• How cider-making differs from beer and wine production
• Why certain apples are better for cider than for eating
• The role of New Jersey agriculture in Burnt Mills’ ingredients
• A tasting of their flagship and seasonal ciders—including fan-favorite flavors
• The outdoor experience at Burnt Mills and why it’s a great spot to visit year-round

Guest Links:

• Website: Burnt Mills Cider
• Instagram: @burntmillscider
• Facebook: Burnt Mills Cider
• TikTok: @burntmillscider

Sponsors:

• New Jersey Lottery – Because anything can happen in Jersey.
• Mayo Performing Arts Center – Your destination for live entertainment in Morristown, NJ. Visit their website.
• Meghan Carroll of ReMax Elite – Looking to buy, sell, or rent in Monmouth or Ocean counties? Call Meghan today at 732-508-7402 or visit mcsellsbythec.com.

Connect with Us:

• Website: Greetings From the Garden State
• Instagram: @greetingsfromthegardenstate

Call to Action:
Love the episode? Leave us a review, share it with a friend, and come visit Burnt Mills Cider for a taste of New Jersey’s best locally crafted ciders!

Transcript

John Coates [0:00 - 0:00]: Foreign. 

Mike Ham [0:18 - 0:28]: What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Greens for the Garden State, powered by the New Jersey Lottery. I'm your host, Mike Ham. We're in Bedminster today at Burnt Mills Cider with John and Miranda. Guys, welcome to the show. 

Miranda Meade [0:28 - 0:28]: Thank you. 

John Coates [0:28 - 0:29]: Thanks. Good to be here. 

Mike Ham [0:29 - 0:47]: Absolutely. It's great to be here. So this is going to be. I think I told you off mic. I know I told you off mic. Episode like 161, 162, so three plus years, 160something episodes. And our first cidery, which we just confirmed is a. Or I just confirmed is a real word. So I'm excited. So this is, this is a big moment in the show. 

John Coates [0:47 - 0:49]: Well, we're happy to be part of it. 

Mike Ham [0:49 - 1:06]: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, okay, Burnt Mills Cider for. We just said it to cidery, but kind of like let's do 30,000 foot view maybe. John, you want to take this one of what Burnt Mills is and what it does and what it makes so people kind of know what it, what it is right out of the gate. 

John Coates [1:06 - 1:36]: Sure. Thanks, Mike. Burnt Mill Cider makes hard cider. Hard cider is a fruit wine where we're taking apple juice, fresh apple juice, fermenting it into an alcoholic product where the, where the natural sugars in the apple juice get converted into alcohol and then we generally finish it off with either carbonation or actually other flavors that we add to it. 

Mike Ham [1:36 - 1:55]: Yeah. And so like when, because we've done a lot of breweries, we've done wineries, we've done distilleries. Like, where does a cidery fall? Kind of in like just from my own curiosity, like in the pecking, like not pecking order, the regulations or different things. Is it kind of fall under the winery type thing? 

John Coates [1:55 - 2:54]: Yeah, historically. So the state considers me a winemaker. I have a winemaker's license. But it's one of these products that fall, you know, into different classes. It can be viewed as a substitute for beer in that it has a similar amount of alcohol. You know, our products are generally between 5 and 6% ABV, so not too dissimilar to that of a beer. Certainly a lot less than the typical wines, abv, but the flavors, again, it's very analogous to a wine in the sense that we're taking a fruit juice and fermenting it. And the process is almost identical to that of winemaking. There's no brewing involved whatsoever. There's no distillation involved whatsoever. It's just fermentation of a, of a fruit juice. To, to something that's been done for 8,000 years. Yeah. To. To get a very different product. 

Mike Ham [2:54 - 2:54]: Totally. 

John Coates [2:54 - 2:55]: Yeah. 

Mike Ham [2:55 - 2:59]: And so, I mean, I think what's interesting. So how long has Burnt Mills been here? 

John Coates [2:59 - 3:37]: We opened our doors four and a half years ago. Right. June of 2020. Right in the middle of, of the pandemic. Yeah. So when we started, and Miranda can attest to this, we were wearing the mask. You can still see the, the social distancing patches on the wall and on the floor. You know, it's funny, at the time we didn't know whether or not people were going to even show up because all the bars and restaurants were closed. But we had the opposite problem. A lot of people came because you could be socially distant. In addition, since we're very outdoor oriented. 

Mike Ham [3:37 - 3:38]: Yeah, it looks great out there. 

John Coates [3:38 - 3:49]: Outside. You could bring your family, your friends, your pet. You know, feel comfortable in that. You, you know, there was plenty of space. You could be socially distant and could have a nice tasty product as well. 

Mike Ham [3:49 - 4:14]: Yeah. So. All right, I think it's interesting because like you said, 8,000 years and like New Jersey has a very long history of growing apples and all that, like, especially up this way, Sussex county, like that whole, that whole area up there as well. So are there a lot of cideries in Jersey? Because I honestly, I don't even like, I know this one and I've heard of this one before, but I don't know if I've hear of many others. 

John Coates [4:14 - 5:48]: Yeah, there's. There are a handful of others. I believe there are five cideries in total in New Jersey. They're. They're all very high quality producers. But, but going back to your original comment, this is a state that has a very long history with, with apple growing, with cider making, also with cider distillation. Right. You know, going back to colonial days, New Jersey was the state for, for production of applejack. Yep. And that tradition certainly took a pause, as it did with everywhere else when. During the Prohibition era. And that put a semi permanent disruption. It was probably the central event in the history of New Jersey cider making because the apple orchards that were left over were essentially converted to, you know, varieties of apples that were better. Better off at supermarkets, not necessarily good for cider making. And, and that legacy remains true to this day. So we, we still see the effects of, of Prohibition in, in, you know, the, the offering of varieties of apples that are available. But I would, I suspect the people at these other ciders in New Jersey and elsewhere would say that part of Their role is to introduce to the public a much higher quality cider that would be more akin to what was available in years past. 

Mike Ham [5:48 - 6:12]: Sure. And I promise we're gonna get you in here, but now I'm just down this rabbit hole, and this is kind of what happens. This is what happens with some of these episodes. So you mentioned apples that are good for the supermarket, but maybe not good for making cider. So what makes a good apple for a hard cider? And then what. Where is Burnt Mills getting their apples to produce the cider that you sell here? 

John Coates [6:12 - 7:53]: Yeah, so that's a really good question. Generally speaking, an apple that has essentially higher acidity levels, higher sugar levels, you know, bittersweets, bitter sharps, not necessarily good for tasting, you know, ripe off the tree. They are often, you know, able to produce an excellent cider. And. And generally speaking. And app this. Not true across the board. But generally speaking, the apples that you find at a supermarket or taste good, but they don't make a very good cider. And by the way, the same thing holds for grapes. If you were to set out to make, let's say, a red wine, and I love using this analogy, you wouldn't buy grapes from red grapes from the supermarket. I would take Cabernet Sauvignon varieties or something else. Something that's better suited for the application at hand. It's the same thing for apple cider making. Some of these varieties are. Are not necessarily ancient, but they're, you know, heirloom varieties, and they're a little bit harder to find. We have taken apples now. We have some of these heirloom varieties planted out front, but they haven't yet started producing fruit. And so until that point, we've generally been taking most of our juice from. From upstate New York. We've gotten some from Pennsylvania and as close by as, you know, next door in Chester. 

Mike Ham [7:53 - 7:54]: Yeah. 

John Coates [7:54 - 7:54]: New Jersey. 

Mike Ham [7:54 - 8:36]: Yeah. Which is cool. And I think, like, you know, the farming aspect of that. We did stuff with some of the wineries that we've done stuff with, and obviously, something like this, like the Garden State, like, we're growing stuff, we're producing things, apples, grapes, all that kind of stuff. And I think that that's a cool thing to kind of. That people forget about sort of, you know, and then a lot of what you're making here sometimes is contingent on what the growing season's like, and, like, you know how that happens and whatever. So to me, it's just like an interesting kind of the ebbs and flows of, like, you have Some control. But you also don't have a ton of control. You're kind of just like, it's up to mother Nature at a certain point, you know, of the process. 

John Coates [8:36 - 9:45]: Yeah, no, you're hitting the nail on the head. And the other thing I thought that you said that's interesting is specific to New Jersey is that the state has such a long history and produces just some, some awesome produce. And we try to incorporate a lot of that into, you know, our products. We were talking about Jersey Blue, which is, you know, a cider that is blended with fresh New Jersey blueberries that we get from one farm down in, down in Hamilton. Then we have Jersey peach and you know, you can imagine what that's made with. And then we have. You're going to try a little bit later product that's made with fresh New Jersey cranberries. You know, people in New Jersey know how good these, these, you know, foods are, but I'm not sure how, how well known it is outside of New Jersey. Yeah. And we do that with a lot of our products. We've had products that, that, you know, have contained cucumbers, basil, all grown locally. Beets, carrots. They're absolutely delicious. 

Mike Ham [9:45 - 9:46]: That's really cool. 

John Coates [9:46 - 9:54]: And you know, and they're micro. You know, it's kind of micro local. They're, they've been grown at farms close by. 

Mike Ham [9:54 - 9:54]: Yeah. 

John Coates [9:54 - 9:55]: In town. 

Mike Ham [9:55 - 10:02]: Yeah. So here you go. How long have you been here with Burnt Mill Cider? And then I have a follow up question for that. 

Miranda Meade [10:03 - 10:04]: I've been here about four years. 

Mike Ham [10:04 - 10:06]: Okay. So almost the. Pretty much the entire time. 

John Coates [10:06 - 10:08]: So she was one of the first to employee. 

Miranda Meade [10:08 - 10:09]: That was the third employee. 

Mike Ham [10:09 - 10:16]: Okay. And I think I saw, I think it might have been LinkedIn because I was trying to do some research before this that you like the tasting room manager first. 

Miranda Meade [10:16 - 10:17]: Yes. 

Mike Ham [10:17 - 10:22]: And then now doing like the marketing and social media stuff and I'm sure still doing a little bit of everything. 

Miranda Meade [10:22 - 10:26]: Yeah, Some sales. Sometimes I help with production, mainly canning. 

Mike Ham [10:26 - 10:26]: Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [10:26 - 10:31]: As needed. And just events once in a while. Like we do tastings in local liquor stores. 

John Coates [10:31 - 10:32]: Sure. 

Miranda Meade [10:32 - 10:42]: So I'll go do those. We do the farmer's market. The Bedminster Farmer's market, which starts in May and goes through early December. So we take turns doing that Saturday morning. 

Mike Ham [10:42 - 11:12]: Okay. So you of all people, and I'm sure obviously John knows too, but when you're in here and people are buying stuff like you obviously have, like you mentioned some of those varietal type things like, you know, special specialty, fermented, you know, Ciders. There we go. Got there. But what are, like, the. The main players here, like, with. People are coming. Like, are they ordering? Are there, like, flagship ciders that Burnt Mills has? And if so, what are they? And can we try some? 

Miranda Meade [11:12 - 11:13]: Yeah, definitely. 

Mike Ham [11:13 - 11:14]: Okay, cool. 

Miranda Meade [11:14 - 11:41]: Our main flagship is our semi dry. It's like our classic hard cider dry sparkling we usually have as well. It's going to be a lot drier than that. More like an apple champagne or a prosecco. Then usually have the sour cherry all year. The pear we have all year, and then the general George, which is a cherry vanilla. And then we rotate seasonally. Some fall seasonals now are the Hunt, which is a cranberry chai cider donut, which tastes like drinking a donut. It's wild. 

Mike Ham [11:41 - 11:42]: Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [11:42 - 11:57]: False spice, which is like apple pie. And then we'll start getting into our spring and summer flavors. Very soon. We'll have our mango berry coming back soon. It's a mango strawberry, hopefully Scarlet Nights, which is a new one. If we can work that out with Rutgers, which would be fresh New Jersey cranberries and ginger. 

Mike Ham [11:57 - 11:57]: Okay. 

Miranda Meade [11:57 - 11:58]: A little bit of a kick to it. 

Mike Ham [11:59 - 11:59]: Sure. 

Miranda Meade [11:59 - 12:07]: And then we do a strawberry lemonade, the peach, the Jersey blue, all of those summer flavors that we get local produce for. 

Mike Ham [12:07 - 12:10]: Awesome. So what do we have? We have a little flight back here. 

Miranda Meade [12:10 - 12:10]: Yeah. 

John Coates [12:10 - 12:14]: Yeah. Why don't we start with the driest, which is the dry sparkling. 

Mike Ham [12:14 - 12:16]: Okay. And this. Go ahead. Sorry. 

John Coates [12:16 - 12:25]: Miranda pointed out it's kind of like an apple champagne. It's very dry. There's no sugar added. 

Mike Ham [12:25 - 12:26]: I like this. 

John Coates [12:27 - 12:47]: And our products, generally speaking, are very dry. Even the sweetest ones we do are probably 30% drier than, let's say, anything from Angry Orchard. But this is one of the few ciders that we do that are unflavored. And to get this this way. 

Mike Ham [12:48 - 12:48]: Yeah. 

John Coates [12:48 - 12:53]: Is very difficult. This is a very. To me, it's delicious. This is really one of my phenomenal. 

Mike Ham [12:53 - 13:00]: It's one of my favorites. You're biting into an apple that just kind of like, bursts with appley flavor in your mouth kind of thing. 

John Coates [13:00 - 13:01]: Yes. 

Mike Ham [13:01 - 13:04]: I just didn't even talk it to the mic there. But burst with apple flavor in your mouth, so. 

John Coates [13:05 - 13:40]: And it's hard to, you know, to get this to this point, to the extent that they're imperfections or impurities. You can't hide it with. You can't hide it with other flavors. There's no sweetness that. That we're adding in. This is just out there in the open and. And it is what it is. So, yeah, if it were, you know, I'm sure that to some extent, it does have impurities. But. But the. You know, to me, they all kind of combine together for. For complexity. But it. This is just, you know, a delicious, Very simple. 

Mike Ham [13:40 - 13:41]: This is cider. 

John Coates [13:41 - 14:34]: Yeah. Very traditionally done, you know, and this has also shaped the way that we've. We've approached cider. So this was one of the first flavors that we had in our lineup of. Of four flavors when we opened four, four and a half years ago. We've had well over 20 flavors. Right now we have 11 on. On tap. But. But this was one of the. The front four, if you will. And the philosophy we've taken is that cider is kind of like wine's relaxed younger cousin. It'll never be such a great analogy. I love that. It'll never be as complex as wine can be. So there's no need to be a snob about it. France snobbery. I think that exists, and I can understand it because you can get. 

Mike Ham [14:34 - 14:44]: I get so intimidated by people that know a lot about wine. Like when we did, like, the wine Expo and all this stuff, I'm just like. They're like, oh, what notes are you getting? And I'm like, what the hell's a note? I don't know. What are we talking about? You know, exactly. 

John Coates [14:45 - 15:34]: With cider is just, do you like it? You know, do you want to drink more? And. And so this. This type of drink is. Is a very, you know, tasty alternative to. To beer. It's a lower alcohol alternative to wine. And. And because it's, let's say, on the simple side, it lends itself to being dressed up with other flavors. So that's why what you'll see in our lineup, most of the time, we're adding some sort of flavoring to the cider. In a lot of cases, as we pointed out, we're trying to showcase what's great about New Jersey in that we're adding in blueberries or we're adding in fresh peaches or cranberries or some of these. These other items that are. That are grown here in the Garden State. So. 

Mike Ham [15:34 - 15:54]: So you mentioned something like this being, like, a hard one to, like, master, I guess, or at least like to get it to this point and like, this flavor profile or, like, I guess, lack of a flavor profile, if that makes sense. So just as I've. Out of curiosity, how long have you been making cider? 

John Coates [15:54 - 16:28]: Oh, yeah. Good. Good question. So, in fact, I started. I started growing Cider specific apple trees about 12 years ago and with the intent of making cider as a hobby. So. And that started about 10 years ago. It wasn't until, let's say seven years ago that, you know, I had the intention of, of going commercial with this. 

Mike Ham [16:28 - 16:28]: Yeah. 

John Coates [16:28 - 17:10]: And, and then even, even once we started, you know, when went commercial, you know, by, by getting some help from some people I trust, I. I discovered how much, how little I actually knew about it and how much I had to learn. Right. And that, that maintained, you know, that holds true to this day. I'm, I'm a student of, of the product and, you know, I'm learning something every day and just trying to minimize the mistakes that we make. But, but it started, it started as a hobby and it just became an expensive endeavor from there. 

Mike Ham [17:10 - 17:30]: Yeah, I mean, look at this. It's the same, you know, same kind of thing. So a hobbyist really. And then like, was, was there a. It's like some of the breweries that we've had on, it was like they made this one beer and they brought it to their friends or they submitted it to some like, contest or whatever and they're like, you gotta, you should open up a brewery kind of thing. Was it a similar experience for you? 

John Coates [17:30 - 17:32]: No. In fact, it was probably the opposite. 

Mike Ham [17:32 - 17:34]: I don't do this, dude. 

John Coates [17:34 - 18:10]: Yeah. I did have somebody say, you shouldn't, you shouldn't start a business. But it was really my wife that gave the push out of the nest. I suppose she saw that I had some passion for pursuing the hobby and I wasn't there with the product yet, but I think she had the faith that stuff would follow with the experience. And she was right. She was right in. Yeah, she's always right. That's exactly right, Miranda. 

Mike Ham [18:10 - 18:13]: Words to live by. If they take away from this episode. 

John Coates [18:13 - 18:18]: It'S that, you know, Val, we can end at this. Yeah. 

Mike Ham [18:18 - 19:01]: This has been. Yeah. The Mayo Performing Arts center is the heart of arts and Entertainment in Morristown, New Jersey. MPAC presents over 200 events annually and is home to an innovative children's arts education program. To see MPAC's upcoming schedule of world class concerts, stand up comedy, family shows and more, head to mayoarts.org or just click the link in our show notes. Looking to buy, sell or rent in Monmouth or Ocean counties, Meghan Carroll of ReMax Elite brings local expertise and personalized service. Megan will make your real estate process smooth and stress free. Bringing Southern hospitality to the Jersey shore. Call Meghan today at 732-508-7402 or visit her website at mcsellsbythec.com no, we have to try more. So what do we got? What do we have next? 

John Coates [19:01 - 19:13]: The next one up is coming of one of the newer flavors. It's just simply called pear, which is kind of descriptive because it is a Bartlett pear apple cider based product. 

Mike Ham [19:13 - 19:14]: Yeah. 

John Coates [19:14 - 19:23]: So this is just called pear. It's nice and great and. Yeah, come on in. 

Mike Ham [19:23 - 19:25]: You can come in, Megan. 

John Coates [19:26 - 19:53]: But you'll get it. You'll get the pear on the nose, and then when you take a sip, you definitely get a burst of flavor. Yeah, totally. Pear flavor. Again. This is one of the newer ones. We introduced this almost a year ago and we had tried a couple years ago, you know, a pear. We'd taken some Japanese pears grown in Pennsylvania, by the way. 

Mike Ham [19:53 - 19:53]: Okay. 

John Coates [19:54 - 20:12]: And. And we really didn't get the pear flavor that we were looking for, so we found it more in this, this Bartlett, the Spartlet pear. But it, you know, when, when we got a lot. And that's how these products come together. 

Mike Ham [20:12 - 20:12]: It's. 

John Coates [20:12 - 21:25]: Yeah, a lot of times we get, A lot of times we get, you know, our products through failure and, you know, we'll have, we'll trial something and, and you know, it won't work out. And after a little bit of time, we'll, we zero in on, you know, by narrowing the goalposts and get to where we want to be. St. Hoff's is another example. We failed with that one 35 times before we got the. Got to the right flavor profile. And when you get there, you know, we had to change the technique for the way that we, you know, actually make the product. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure that there aren't other people in the industry that are. Most of the people are not doing it the same way that we're doing it. And, and it's very difficult to get the flavor less so the nose with products like that. But when you get it right, you know, you, you have a sense of pride of, of something that, you know, is, is a higher quality product than what else is out there. Yeah. And least in my opinion. And, and you just run with it. So pear is one of those things. 

Mike Ham [21:25 - 21:28]: I like that. I like the pear a lot, you know. Yeah. 

John Coates [21:28 - 21:32]: Really simple. But, you know, it has good flavor and, and that's been pouring well for us. 

Mike Ham [21:32 - 21:32]: Yeah. 

John Coates [21:32 - 21:33]: Yeah. 

Mike Ham [21:33 - 22:14]: Sorry to those two ladies that came in too. I was going to like, stop and like, so that you guys could talk to them, but they're gone. All right. So they'll come back? Yeah, yeah, they'll be fine. So I guess my next question is when. So you're, we mentioned the beginning hobby to now an expensive business endeavor. When you're creating, excuse me, these new flavors or these, you know, trying different things. Like are you, I mean, obviously you can't like put a whole batch in a tank and ferment it and just like hope it's good and however long that process takes or are you like trying stuff on a smaller scale and then trying to scale it up production wise? Like, how does that. Yeah, how does that work? 

John Coates [22:14 - 22:15]: That's such a good question. 

Mike Ham [22:15 - 22:19]: I don't want to give away like the secret, but I think, you know, that's curious. 

John Coates [22:19 - 22:31]: Well, no, you're, you're, you're onto something there. It'd be foolish to, you know, try to make a completely new product with a 3,000 gallon tank. 

Mike Ham [22:31 - 22:34]: Yeah, it's a lot of, a lot of cider. Yeah. 

John Coates [22:34 - 23:02]: You'd have to be pretty confident you knew what you were doing or you knew where you wanted to get to. We will start. The simplest thing is to start with at a small scale and, and then zero in on, on the product. And you should come to one of our Monday morning meetings because a lot of times we, you know, our group meeting will be, you know, sampling, you know, some of the, the trials that. 

Mike Ham [23:02 - 23:06]: I mean, it sounds, it sounds great. And on a Monday morning, you know. 

John Coates [23:06 - 24:04]: Yeah, you can, you know, you'll get instant feedback and you kind of. That's how we go about moving the goalposts and that's an iterative process. So you keep going back at it till you get something. Now maybe you're wasting a few liters per sample, but that's not really, that's just the cost of doing this and I'm willing to forego that. But there's some times where we don't have the luxury of being able to do that. We have to commit to larger amounts. Like for example, when we age something in a barrel, you have one barrel and that's a larger 50 gallon type of commitment. And that's fine too. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't. We don't put it on tap unless we have something that, that we think is tasty. Yeah. 

Mike Ham [24:04 - 24:23]: And I was also reading online, I think on the website that there's like some that you can get in stores in like a liquor store someplace. There's other ones that are only poured here, so you actually have to come out to Bedminster to actually try them. So what are ones that like make it out of this space, but what are some of the ones that are for like the die hard Burnt Mills fans? 

John Coates [24:23 - 24:41]: Well, so Miranda, why don't you take that. But you know, we have a, you know, a split. She said we have the split of. Of year round flavors and most of which get put into cans. Yep. And then we also have a rotational seasonals on you. 

Miranda Meade [24:41 - 24:46]: Yeah. So we don't can all of our seasonals. If it's like really popular, you know, we'll consider it for like the next year. 

Mike Ham [24:46 - 24:47]: Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [24:47 - 25:00]: But if we had something on tap, people can come and get it in a growler. Sometimes we'll sell kegs to restaurants and bars. And then our flagships, we do cans to stores as well as restaurants and bars. And they can do cans or kegs. 

Mike Ham [25:00 - 25:00]: Got it. 

Miranda Meade [25:00 - 25:03]: We're in a little over 200 stores. 

John Coates [25:03 - 25:03]: Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [25:03 - 25:04]: Yeah. 

Mike Ham [25:04 - 25:07]: In Jersey, across the country. How does that. 

Miranda Meade [25:07 - 25:08]: And some in Pennsylvania. 

Mike Ham [25:08 - 25:08]: Okay. 

John Coates [25:08 - 25:29]: Yep. Yeah. And then, but, but you're right there. There are a lot of times there will be. For example, right now we have, you know, six things, six flavors in cans, but 11 things on tap. Yeah. And so the next. It's a good segue into the next flavor that we're going to try. 

Mike Ham [25:29 - 25:31]: See this is. We're like, we're all old pros here. 

John Coates [25:31 - 25:56]: Yeah. This one's called Friendsgiving and I made with New Jersey based grown cranberries. It smells. And then. And this is. Yeah. And you'll get some rosemary as well on there. So it's a blend of spice and tartness. That's really cool. From the herbal spice with the rosemary and then the tartness from the cranberry. 

Mike Ham [25:56 - 25:57]: Yeah. 

John Coates [25:58 - 26:47]: This is a flavor that we've had every year, but the recipe changes every year based on what we have available the year before. We put juniper instead of the rosemary, but it is a local fan favorite and it's something that you can only get at the cider. So there's always a reason to come here for something because this will be the only place where you can find one or two particular drinks. The Jersey Maple Bourbon is another one where we've taken bourbon barrels, aged the cider for a while and then blended. Blended that aged higher ABV cider with locally made maple syrup. Yeah. 

Mike Ham [26:47 - 26:48]: That's cool. 

John Coates [26:48 - 26:55]: You know, that's not. We have. We can only do that in small batches. That's never going to go into cans and go out to the stores. 

Mike Ham [26:55 - 27:29]: Yeah. It's crazy. Like, you know, I was going to ask at the beginning when we, when we started on the first one about, like. And you beat me to it because I was gonna ask, like, is there a way to taste wine? I have wine. Here we go. Way to taste cider. Because, like, you know, when you do the wine, there's always. There's so many levels. People are spitting it out, doing all sorts of crazy things, but, like, there's obviously like an aroma to it. But I've noticed that, like, all of these. It's just like, even now, like, my mouth is, like watering for, like, for more. It's like a crazy kind of. 

John Coates [27:29 - 27:30]: Thank you. 

Mike Ham [27:30 - 27:44]: Crazy kind of thing. It's like, you know, I mean, I drink. I told you off, Mike. Like, I drink whiskey and beer and like, that doesn't really happen. Yeah. But I honestly, like, I don't even remember the last time I even had a cider before today. So this may change my whole thing. 

John Coates [27:45 - 27:49]: I mean, that's actually. Thank you for saying that. 

Mike Ham [27:49 - 27:50]: Yeah, you're welcome. 

John Coates [27:50 - 29:44]: You know, that. That is the. Again, I do think that the role of the craft producer now, this is not just for the cider makers. This applies to the beers and the breweries and the distilleries, the wineries. The role of a craft producer is to. Is to create a higher quality product for the consumer and introduce the consumer to, you know, to what the product could actually be. These products have a lot of potential, and it's not just in the unflavored, you know, traditional ciders that we have. It's in the flavored ones. We try to do something that nobody else has done and to offer combinations of flavors that are unique and together, you know, make people say, wow, that, that, that's good, or I want more. Yeah. How did they do that? And I, I think that the, you know, when you, when you look at any of the craft producers, you know, we're not going to be. We're not going to be able to compete against the large producers on, on price. Right, right. So. But where you can outperform is in the quality of the product itself. Yeah. So. And at Portmill Cider, we're no different from any other craft producer. We're trying to come out with a high that is differentiated through our processes, through our inputs, you know, through our, our just our overall creative input as well. And, and what you see is just a reflection of. Of the efforts that we, we put into it. 

Mike Ham [29:44 - 30:03]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so far, I'm blown away. I honestly do think the, the first one, the unflavored one, Is my favorite so far because it's just like, so simple and so good. But all three have been like, I love the. I mean, I loved all three so far. So thank you. You're hitting on exactly what you're trying to do, so mission accomplished, I would say. But that's just me, you know, so. So what's the last one we got? 

John Coates [30:03 - 31:17]: So the last one is. Is more of letting you know what. What the kids are drinking. This is the sweetest one. So, you know, it's also. I don't mean to be tongue in cheek here, but I learned early on that if I made ciders that appealed to my palate, which tends towards the drier side, then we would have been out of business within a couple weeks. Nobody would have bought our product. Generally speaking, even though we skew on the drier side, our better selling ciders tend to be the sweeter ones. And so what you have here is called cider donut. This is a fairly new product for us. It was new in cans for the first time last year. It was new on tap two years ago. Okay. But it's just a sweeter cider with cinnamon and vanilla. And in terms of our seasonal offering is you're blown away with. Yeah, in terms of our. Our, you know, seasonal offerings, this would be one of our best sellers. 

Mike Ham [31:17 - 31:18]: Yeah. 

John Coates [31:18 - 31:20]: So this is what the. What I say the kids are drinking. 

Mike Ham [31:20 - 31:47]: Yeah. I mean, like, it's. It's obviously sweet. Definitely sweeter than like, the first couple that we had. But, like, I think maybe the reason why I haven't had a lot of ciders is because they're just like. They just taste like sugar bombs. And like, this doesn't taste like that. It's like, kind of like mellow at the beginning, and then like, at the end, it's like you bite it to the cider donut. You just. The only thing you're not getting is the donut and like, the little granulated sugar on the outside. You're waiting for the crunch almost on the sugar, you know, the sugar crystals. 

Miranda Meade [31:48 - 31:50]: So not as heavy as, like a donut flavor. 

Mike Ham [31:50 - 31:50]: Exactly. 

Miranda Meade [31:51 - 31:51]: Usually is. 

Mike Ham [31:51 - 31:52]: Yeah, Anything flavor. 

John Coates [31:53 - 31:53]: Yeah. 

Mike Ham [31:53 - 31:54]: Even a donut is nice. Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [31:54 - 31:54]: Right. 

John Coates [31:55 - 32:09]: Yeah. No, I think that's. I think that's exactly right there. You know, we're trying to give you the experience of. Of what a cider donut in a glass might taste like. So that's the target. That doesn't necessarily mean we hit the target. 

Mike Ham [32:09 - 32:37]: But listen, I've never had it before today, so that was like a real Time, like, you know, my, like, eyes are bulging in my head. And Chrissy, my fiance, loves apple cider donuts. So if it's anywhere here, I'm going to take some for her. So I'm curious also because I see like all these tanks in the back behind the camera. So you can't see those. Sure. There's a lot of things going on back there and some of those tanks are gigantic and so that's where all the production happens is right here. On site. 

John Coates [32:37 - 33:13]: Yes, everything is done on site. The. Those, the larger tanks that you see in the back are the fermentation tanks. They're also bulk storage tanks. And then what you don't see on the left hand side are the smaller tanks, the bright tanks. And you also see those in breweries and even distilleries. Yeah. And those, those can be pressurized. So that's where we finish off, you know, a base cider and flavor it carbonated, you know, and get it ready for packaging either in a keg or in cans. 

Mike Ham [33:13 - 33:19]: What are some of like, what's your favorite here? What's your favorite cider? That's here at Burnt Mills. 

Miranda Meade [33:19 - 33:23]: Of the ones we do. I like the peach a lot in the summer. 

Mike Ham [33:23 - 33:26]: Usually we're going to have to come August. Yeah. For that. 

Miranda Meade [33:26 - 33:29]: Yeah, it was strawberry lemonade as well. In the summer. 

Mike Ham [33:29 - 33:53]: Yeah. It's really, really good when you guys are doing these Monday morning meetings that we talked about and like you're trying new flavors. Like, is it like, what's the feeling like when like everyone at the table, maybe there's some like a naysayer in the group, but whatever. But everyone at the table is like, nailed it. Like, this is it. We hit it. This is exactly what we were going for. Like, that must be an awesome feeling to know that you're going to bring something quality out to people. Right? 

John Coates [33:53 - 34:22]: Yeah, we get that. It's funny, sometimes you have a product that is on target with what you had in mind and that doesn't necessarily translate to commercial success. So again, the flavors that appeal to me personally tend to because they're on the dry side, they tend to do less well. 

Mike Ham [34:22 - 34:23]: Okay. 

John Coates [34:23 - 34:26]: But I think they're absolutely delicious. 

Mike Ham [34:26 - 34:44]: Yeah, you really have like that artist's curse kind of thing. I feel like, you know, it's like, you know what you like, but you also want to, you know, sell something, you know, so. But honestly, I mean, all these were phenomenal. And we mentioned the summer too. Can we talk about the outside? Because right now it's like recording this episode. It's like 20 degrees outside. 

Miranda Meade [34:44 - 34:44]: Yeah. 

Mike Ham [34:44 - 34:54]: And it's been. This is like the warmest day we've had in like four days. But it looks so cool. There's like fire pits back there. I know you guys do food trucks. So there's a bunch of stuff that happens here, right? 

Miranda Meade [34:54 - 34:54]: Absolutely. 

Mike Ham [34:54 - 34:55]: Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [34:55 - 35:06]: So we have some. We have a covered pergola now and then we have picnic tables there. Some picnic tables out in our field. People tend to bring their own, like folding chairs, blankets, and just kind of set up shop. Get comfy. 

Mike Ham [35:06 - 35:06]: Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [35:06 - 35:20]: And we do have food trucks right now. We only have food trucks on Saturdays, weather permitting. If it's like snowing like crazy, they're not going to come. But we usually have one every day that we're open during our busier seasons, like the spring and the fall in particular. 

Mike Ham [35:20 - 35:24]: It must be awesome out there when there's, like, people out there and. 

Miranda Meade [35:24 - 35:24]: Yeah. 

Mike Ham [35:24 - 35:25]: You know. Yeah. 

John Coates [35:25 - 35:26]: We're family friendly. 

Mike Ham [35:26 - 35:27]: Yeah. 

John Coates [35:27 - 35:31]: You'll see people, you know, treating it as a. Almost as a beach. Yeah. 

Mike Ham [35:31 - 35:31]: Yeah. 

John Coates [35:31 - 35:48]: And they, you know, they'll camp out for the afternoon, see the tents and the canopies. They're celebrating birthdays or, you know, spiritual, special family events. It's really nice to see that. And they get to enjoy. We look west, so they get to enjoy a nice sunset. 

Miranda Meade [35:48 - 35:49]: Sunsets are beautiful out there. 

Mike Ham [35:49 - 35:50]: Yeah. 

John Coates [35:50 - 36:01]: And just. It's a really. It's meant to be a gathering place with community and a place where you can relax. And so I think we've achieved that part of it. 

Mike Ham [36:01 - 36:07]: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Quick sidebar to. Did we hit everything that we needed to hit? 

Miranda Meade [36:07 - 36:16]: I think so. The only other thing I would mention is that all of our products are naturally gluten free, which is another thing that's great about cider being a good alternative to beer. 

Mike Ham [36:16 - 36:22]: Yeah. Okay, so we'll do that and then we'll do socials and website and everything. You good? 

John Coates [36:22 - 36:22]: Sure. 

Mike Ham [36:22 - 36:49]: Cool. All right. This has been great. So I'm going to mark. I don't have my time in front of me, but. Okay. So I've also noticed that me, like I mentioned beer, whiskey, that's kind of like what I drink. But as I'm getting older, like, beer doesn't always agree with me as well as it did back when I was like slammin natty light in college. Like when I was 21 for sure. But cider, gluten free, right? Yes. 

Miranda Meade [36:50 - 36:55]: It's all naturally gluten free, about the same ABV as a beer. But it's a Little bit lighter and a little friendlier. 

Mike Ham [36:55 - 36:56]: For sure. 

Miranda Meade [36:56 - 36:57]: We love friendly. 

Mike Ham [36:57 - 37:13]: Yeah. Okay. So this has been great and I really appreciate you guys having me out and for the little flight here and everything. This was awesome. Was great getting to know you both. So if people are listening to this and they want to know more about Burnt Mills and they want to, you know, know where to go, know where to check out socials, all that kind of stuff, where would you send them to do that? 

John Coates [37:13 - 37:13]: Yeah. 

Miranda Meade [37:13 - 37:22]: So we have a website, Burt millsider dot com. We've got our food truck schedule on there. Our tap list is on there. We're also on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. 

Mike Ham [37:22 - 37:22]: Awesome. 

Miranda Meade [37:22 - 37:31]: And we're good about updating, you know, food truck schedules, tap lists, what's available on cans, events going on, things like that. You can message us that way as well. 

Mike Ham [37:31 - 38:02]: Sweet. Well, John Miranda, thank you so much for doing this with us today and having me in here. We'll put all the links in the show notes. People just go click them, check it out, come out, you know, grab a cider, enjoy. And we're definitely going to come out. We'll bring the dog. We'll do a whole thing outside over the summer. That's going to be awesome. Can't wait. Yeah, sure. So thank you again, and just for everybody listening, this has been the Greetings with RSA podcast powered by the New Jersey Lottery. I'm Mike Ham. We were out here at Burnt Mill Cider in Bedminster, New Jersey, today. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time.