S5 E4: Derek Karmie on Family, Business, and Leadership Pt. 1

Dale and Brian sit down with Dale’s son, Derek Karmie, for a candid conversation about what it was like growing up alongside the early days of ForeverLawn. From moving across the country at nine years old to tagging along on installs and experiencing the realities of building a business from scratch, Derek shares a unique behind-the-scenes perspective that blends humor, family memories, and formative life lessons.

Along the way, he reflects on hard work, opportunity, and what it means to earn your place in a family business. With plenty of stories—from early road trips to jobsite moments—this episode sets the stage for a deeper look at leadership, growth, and legacy in Part 2.

Episode Highlights: 

• A 9 year old’s perspective of moving cross country.
• Derek’s role at ForeverLawn now.
• Reminiscing on past projects.
• Derek’s roles over the years.

Links Mentioned in Episode/Find More on ForeverLawn:

• www.foreverlawn.com
• Impact Without Limits Instagram: @impact_withoutlimits
• ForeverLawn’s Instagram: @foreverlawninc
• Get Grass Without Limits Here
• Visit our show notes page HERE
• Subscribe to Our Newsletter HERE
• Dale’s Instagram: @dalekarmie
• Brian’s Instagram: @bkarmie
• Find Our Shorts on the ForeverLawn YouTube Channel

This show has been produced by Adkins Media Co.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

I think a big part of why you started this thing was opportunity for your family. I don't take for granted the work that you put in to give us these opportunities. So when I'm given those opportunities, I try to do my best with them.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

So why would two guys leave comfortable jobs, move across the country, and start a business in an industry they don't know, a place they don't know? And could it be successful? We're Dale and Brian Carmen. Join us as we share our story and inspire you to become people of impact. Welcome to the Impact Without Limits Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Welcome back to the Impact Without Limits Podcast. Dale Carmen here, sitting with my brother Brian. Hey everybody.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Good to be here. Welcome back. And today we have a guest with us. We have Derek Carmy, Dale's oldest son. Derek, welcome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Welcome, Derek. So we spent about a half hour to 45 minutes trying to figure out how to make this work because we only had two mics and two cameras when we should have three. One of them wasn't working. So Brian and I are going to be doing a little shifting back and forth of the microphone. And our great team will do some tremendous editing. So hopefully it won't be too unnatural or distracting.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I'm just watching the camera, and that was not quite natural, but we're going to be all right. So, all right. Um, Derek, so we've through this podcast told the story of you know quitting our job, selling our homes, moving to Albuquerque, and we've kind of gotten perspective from our wives and told our story, but I wanted to talk just a little bit about what it was like for you. You were nine when we made that decision. So what's it like for a nine-year-old to hear you're going to be moving across the country? And what were your thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Well, I didn't know Albuquerque was a real place. I thought Bugs Bunny made it up. So I was pretty excited to find out that it actually existed. Um, the process of moving, I actually was pretty excited about it. It was a an adventure we drove across the country. Um I don't know if you bought them for us for the trip or if it was just a Christmas gift, but Kaylin and I had these these little film cameras um that we were using to kind of take pictures as we drove across the country. That was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Yeah, pretty sure I bought that for the trip. Actually, I think mom got those. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Yeah, but um I was yeah, I was excited.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

And then you say film cameras, were they like disposable?

SPEAKER_03 2:40

No, they actually you had like a mine was blue and hers was pink, and you actually put a roll of film in. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

You were like right at the cusp of people old enough to remember cameras with film.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah, I remember you guys getting Angie and Lori some cameras for birthday and Christmas gifts and things like that that were digital and like four megapixel and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Oh, yeah, it was a big deal. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. So you took pictures on the ride out?

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Do you have any of those pictures? I don't know where they went. I don't have any of them.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

No, but I just remember we had never really had never been out west short of living in Seattle for that short stint. So it was kind of neat just driving and seeing the terrain and the landscape change as we went. Uh, I thought that was really cool. Um I didn't really know we didn't have a place to live, so there was not too much stress. I just went to a house to live. We got there, and there was a house, and until we were pulling out, there was a neighbor across the street that had kids about our age that we met and kind of became friends right away.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Lived in a good neighborhood with some so when um first of all, and and and I'm just I think this is kind of neat because I I do want to get your perspective and hear how things look to you, but just the whole concept of um me leaving uh my career, which was computers, computer consulting. I worked from home, you know, up in the in the blue room at the house, and you guys could come up and see me, whatever. Stopping that and switching and selling artificial turf. I mean, did did that even register? Did you understand any of that? Or was that no moving?

SPEAKER_03 4:20

Yeah, I don't think it really I knew it was a big big change for us because we were moving, but I don't know that I really understood the gravity of giving up an established career with a good paying job to start a business. I did realize pretty quickly how hard you guys were working, especially because you let me tag along sometimes. So I knew you guys were working hard, but the gravity of it was not probably there.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Did you realize how broke we were?

SPEAKER_03 4:46

No, not at the time. Looking back, yes. Um there's a funny story that I I tell people that they kick out of. Uh we used to eat hot dogs a lot. It was like the bar S, like cheapest, cheap hot dogs you could get. So my entire childhood, I thought I hated hot dogs. And I went to a friend's house in sixth grade, I think. So a couple years after we had been out there, like, hey, we're gonna have hot dogs for lunch. I'm like, I don't like hot dogs, but I'll be polite and I'll eat it. And they made Oscar Meyer hot dogs. I was like, wow. I actually like hot dogs. I just I just don't like the ones that we buy. It didn't help that mom boiled them a lot of the time, which is about the worst way to cook a hot dog. Uh, but looking back, I can tell how broke we were, like the group the food that we ate and that we were always doing like combo dinners with your family, Brian, and things like that. But at the time, no, I don't think I had a concept of how little money we had. Not having a freezer maybe should have been a slight tip off, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

That didn't Yeah, but that was only for about two months.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

Yeah, it was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Do you remember? So speaking of the freezer. Yeah, I don't think it was right then. Are you gonna talk about the ferret?

SPEAKER_03 5:55

The ferret that's the first thing I thought of when I said when I said the freezer was the ferret.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Tell me your perspective of the ferret story.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Well, if I'm remembering correctly, this was a long time ago. Mom had gone into the garage, probably to get something out of the out of the cooler that was the freezer. If it was at that time, maybe it was a little later. And she came in and said something to the effect of there's a weasel in our garage. I think it was a weasel, I don't know. It was some kind of animal that it definitely was not. And we're like, There's not a weasel in the garage. She said, There's a weasel in the garage. And you're like, no, there's there's not a weasel in the garage. So we go out and look, and sure enough, there's this ferret just zipping around in the garage.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

You remember we didn't get a little bit of a little bit we captured it, we put on ski masks and gloves, and we caught it and made it our pet. Yeah, that was named it Ricky. That's good stuff. Um go ahead, Brian. You were getting ready. I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Are ferrets wild in Albuquerque? No, someone's pet. So somebody else was definitely a pet that made its way into our garage. Yeah. But there wasn't like a hey, we found a ferret. It was just a we'll make it our pet.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Yeah, but we were net neutral on the whole thing because we had a bunny that lived in the backyard that escaped. Yeah, what was the name? Michael Tate. Michael Tate, the big white bunny.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

It was a snow white bunny we named Michael Tate.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

He was big, he was a unit of a bunny. Just lived in the backyard, and one day McKenna, her friend, actually left the gate open. So he escaped.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Yeah. But we did go down to the pet store when we found the ferret, and we asked, and anybody reported a missing ferret.

unknown 7:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

I don't know if we put up a sign down there, but we asked, we might have left our number. And what are you gonna do? Go to the the dog pound? There's no ferret pound. I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

I don't think they would take a ferret. Pretty sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Yeah, we kept it. So when you you we look back at what we did. And you were on an install. I think the first install you were on was maybe that trip we took to Tucson.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

I'm pretty sure I don't remember the timing of things, but I'm pretty sure I went with you to cut in the holes at Charlie Rudolph's house.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

You did.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

So I don't know when that landed time wise.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

After the Tucson.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

We were all in the hotel room. Oh yeah. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Yeah, so we had Brian and Dale, Lori, Derek, McKenna, Kaylin, and Lori was pregnant, all in a mo motel. Mmm. Motel room. Yeah, that one that one didn't end so well. Do you remember much about that trip?

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Um, I have little snippets. I remember I think mom left early.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

I don't remember if that was a trip where the slushy machine exploded all over us. We probably didn't have enough money to be buying slushies back then. That might have been another another trip out there. I remember helping with the installs, doing spikes and maybe helping spread some rubber and stuff like that. Mom being, I think, out there power brooming.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

She was.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

I think even McKenna was helping like lay out spikes and stuff. So I remember that's the part I remember most of it.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

McKenna was kind of just like She was sort of there. Yeah, we'd give her something to do just to keep her busy.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

That was a fun trip. All right. So I want to, and we can go back and fill in some guests, but I don't want to fast forward to now. Wow. That's just I I just want to jump. You're now um a leader in our business. You've worked here for 12, 15 years?

SPEAKER_03 9:34

Yeah. I well, I've been full-time since 2000. Sorry. 2011. So 15 years of full-time work, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Yeah. And um is is that something like did you always watching us think, hey, I wanna do this? I mean, it did you ever have thoughts of doing something different?

SPEAKER_03 9:55

No, I always knew I would either do I knew I'd do this, this being either joining the business or following in your footstep and starting my own. For a while, I actually was planning on working here and then starting my own business, probably a dealership, and doors opened and I just kind of kept moving through them and realized that the path for me was to stay here and progress through the company.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

It's interesting you said that because uh my daughter Paige and her husband Wade started a dealership, and I remember back to my girls, and I assume you were part of it too, like playing dealer as a little kid and where you would like pretend like, hey, we're a dealer in this market or something like that. Um what what was your I mean, what was your perspective of what we did and who dealers were and as you grew up? What what was that mindset?

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah, I I mean I grew up around some of the dealers because I started I was at the first conference. I was actually telling Tess a couple days ago, I've only missed one conference, and it was the one at Disney World, which is probably like the best one for kids to actually go to, because mom suddenly decided that I couldn't miss school that year. So it's kind of a bummer. I've missed one, but I yeah, I've been around the dealers since I was a little kid. I viewed them really as just part of the family, kind of an extension um of us. Uh obviously I knew that they were business owners and recognized that they're entrepreneurs, which appealed to me. So my thought was I would start a dealership in the Florida panhandle just because I enjoyed it there. Our family kind of has some cool memories there and I like the area. Um ended up kind of not doing that. I'm glad I didn't actually love Ohio, so I'm I'm glad that I stayed.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

I think Brian and Marcy are glad you didn't do it.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Yeah, well, that's part of it. They they were joining and they were from Ohio, like right down the road from us, and they said, Hey, we want to move to start this dealership. And I think they were looking maybe at the Atlanta area or something like that. And we had we had a dealer there at the time. It's like, what other markets would be good? And I said, I listed somehow. You know, you got the southwest and places like that. And I said, one that I think personally would be really cool is the the Florida panhandle. I said, I'd the market would be different because it's a lot of rental homes, but I think there is a strong residential opportunity there, and you have the commercial stuff too, and they liked the idea, so they ended up moving there. I'm glad their dealership is doing well because I feel bad if it if it wasn't, because it took my advice uh and and moved to that market. Um But yeah, just uh kind of I'll got opportunities throughout. You guys let me start the home office dealerships and things like that, and decided the path was just to stay here and be part of the home office.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Well, kudos you, because you were in the role of new dealer onboarding when you were saying you you so um you suggested the market that you in the back of your mind were thinking you might want to start a business at. So that's that's a a nice selfless move. And I think it turned out well. Turned out well. Um jumping around, speaking of Florida panhandle. Do you remember Papa Ray's job? Oh, yeah. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 12:59

Yeah. Um the the first one tell me your your memories or your recollections. I remember being on the first install, but I don't think I was there the whole time because that was our first real like vacation in a while. So I think I spent some time with the family vacationing, but it was the first install where we had to cut the squares and glue them. So I remember doing that. Um I remember going back out, I think, for some repair work after Hurricane ripped some of the turf actually off the roof, and we had to glue it back on. And then was there a third trip where we installed a little side yard area? We did, we did the the like whole outside hallway down the I remember on that one, it was you, me and Jim, I think, on the third trip, and um we were installing turf kind of out like his little side door, and there was a a wall, I think with like a built-in planter, um kind of separating the area from the main patio area where we were working. And Jim and I, for whatever reason, from the I don't know what story he was on, the 18th story got up on this planter bed and like shuffled around the wall on the edge of the building to access the area. Yeah, I was and I look back and I'm just wondering why on earth we did that. It seems like such a terrible idea. One one bump and we would have been over the side.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

I was opposed to that. That's kind of a boom-chilling memory for me. I was hugging the wall on the other side because I'm so um not a fan of heights, and you and Jim were climbing around the outside of that, and it's like you're right.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Yeah, I'm scared of heights too. I don't know what I was doing. Yeah, um, but no, I remember the I remember the the project really well. It's still one of my favorite pictures that we have because he had the two tiers of grass and the background.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

That's a great shot.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

So uh I want to go back to um, you know, we're we're in Albuquerque and we're there a year and a half, and Astroturf, Astroloan files bankruptcy. Do you recall any of that in the actual start of Foreverloan? Or was that?

SPEAKER_03 15:04

I do. I remember that. I don't know again that I realized how big of a deal it was. I think it was just kind of a blind faith that things would be okay. I remember making the trip to go see Greg Norfleet in was it Southern California?

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

To look at those, look at those fields. I don't remember was it I don't even remember the name of the company was like Forever Green or um going to see him. I remember that. And then I remember also I think I was with you guys meeting Roger Baker. Um I don't know, I don't know when how that all fits in, but I kind of remember that too. So the first that was a couple months later, one of the early dealers, or possibly the first dealer.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Well, you you were so you were also down with um El Paso James James installing there.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Remember you made that hole in one on his little on his little putty green in his office.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yep. I'm I'm sitting there meeting with this guy that's supposed to be a potential dealer, and he's got the the pool spa hot tub business. And um Derek's like, what do I do? And he had this little indoor chipping golf course. I said, just go play some golf on Derek, wax it. He got a hole in one sunk it.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

I'm glad you were hitting into a hole or through it. I don't remember. I think I almost chipped it in. Um and I don't, yeah, I don't know. Was he was he involved with that big 5,000 square foot project out there in El Paso? Because I remember going and helping with that one as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

He was involved from the standpoint of selling it, but that was one of those epic projects where he was supposed to be there with his team and nobody showed up. Yeah, there wasn't really a team there. We ended up doing it. Yep. So you remember that job?

SPEAKER_03 16:49

I remember that job. Yeah, not in great detail, but I remember it.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

And the Greg, the Greg Norfleet trip was fun because we were going out to look at some installs of this product that we were considering using for um you know the product we would we would launch, eventually launch for Evelon with. And uh, we had to go out to California to see an install. So we drove through the night to get there. We met him at eight o'clock at a Denny's, spent the day driving around Southern California, and then we drove back home because we didn't have the money for a hotel. Well, I remember driving across the desert on the eastern part of California being so tired. I was I was spent. Brian, I think you maybe started driving and switched to me, or maybe I started and hadn't switched yet. But I'm like, I can't stay awake. You were in the back seat, and I think you were just awake, just looking at me, and I stuck my head out the window, and amazingly, in the middle of the desert, it started to rain.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

And it hit my face and woke me up because I I thought I was going down. Just a funny story. That's happened a couple times.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

I remember driving back from Arizona the one time, too. Just listen to that newsboy's song on repeat the entire drive home because it was keeping you awake.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

I mean, pulling over and resting could have been an option, but it never seemed to be one of the options we considered. We had to get back. There always was. Always was. All right. So is you um you started into working at Foreverline? We talked about you were in sales and then New Dealer onboarding. And um a few years ago you took over the sports grass division. And um talk through that a little bit. I I mean, was that something that you had a strong desire to do, or was that something you were thrust into?

SPEAKER_03 18:43

I did not have a strong desire to do it. I think what was supposed to happen was there was supposed to be kind of a one-year transition from Dale to me in that role. Um, which I think was supposed to start around January and kind of transitioned throughout the year, and then in March.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Was it 2020?

SPEAKER_03 19:01

It would have been 2021 because it was the year of the trip to uh Jackson Hole.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

So it was after COVID had kind of kicked in because we had to move to a domestic achievers trip. And they went on the achievers trip in February or March, so I covered for him while he was gone, and then he never took it back when he came back to the office. So I just kind of kind of owned it from that point forward. Uh it was not something that I particularly wanted to do, but I knew it was something that the company needed and would be a growth opportunity for me. So I took it on. Um, and I think it's worked out pretty well. So what has um I like it now. I was just saying, I like it now.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Yeah. Well, it's doing well. Sportsgrass is our fastest growing brand right now. Um, we've seen significant growth there. Um what what has been maybe different than you expected as you stepped into that role? And where do you see it heading?

SPEAKER_03 20:04

A couple things, I mean there are lots of differences. When we when I kind of stepped into that role, it hadn't had a full-time brand leader before. Um we didn't encourage dealers to really push that brand. We actually kind of discouraged them from pushing the brand, honestly. So it's been a I think a major adjustment on the part of the company to actually invest money into that brand and try to move it forward and start to uh encourage dealers to get involved. Uh so that's been the biggest change for me is it was a brand that was sold by only a handful of dealers. Our volume was low to now. I think the volume is about four times what it was when I stepped into the role. And we have instead of only four or five dealers selling sports fields, we have about last year we had 20 dealers that's pretty good for five years.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

I think that was a subtle velvet sledgehammer smash on my head because cut me out of the way. We really got that thing cooking.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

I just don't think the brand had been prioritized at all. So having somebody that prioritized it and you guys being willing to let that be basically my full-time thing. And you invested in a team as well. I mean, we pretty quickly brought on Andrew and and started to build out resources there, um, adjusted kind of how we execute the projects. So yeah, it's just kind of grown.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

All right. So let me ask you this. You've you know, we talked about you starting when you were nine years old out on your first job. We're talking about you now leading the uh the sportsgrass division of Foreverlone and being part of the executive team. But give me a couple um uh I would say of the key leadership rules or principles or ideals that you've learned or embraced over the years, because you've grown from in this business a kid that didn't know. Anything out there pounding a spike to you know leading a large section of our team.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

I don't consider myself a fantastic leader or a natural leader. Uh you guys invest a lot in leadership. So I've attended seminars and read books and things like that. I've definitely learned the most just from observing and working with the two of you, though. That's where most of my lessons come from. So I've kind of tried to pattern myself after you. The things that I think I do well when I just try to be honest with myself is I think I'm I think I've developed a decent ability to look at the people on my team and figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are and try to align them in jobs where they're spending most of their time in their strengths and having minimal weaknesses. And I think I'm decent at doing that with myself too, realizing what I'm good at and what I'm bad at and trying to round myself out with people on the team. And then I'm not I'm not afraid to work hard and to work consistently, so that definitely helps. And then I think adding good people to the team has has been a good one. Get people that fit our culture and that are good teammates really has helped. And that's a big part of why the brand and the teams that I'm part of have grown is the people that are on them. So those are a couple things that I would say come to mind for me.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

So we've talked about um, you know, one of the the the sometimes challenges of working with family. Um it's kind of like coaching your kids, right? You the the tendency is for people to think that somebody got a position because of their relationship or whatever. And and as as a leader, you you probably make it a little bit harder. I know when I coach my kids in basketball, they had to do a little bit more, prove themselves a little bit more to get the same type of playing time as another kid. And um honestly, I think the same's true for for you in business or our kids in business. Um we we want you to earn it, and so you've moved up through and and proven yourself at different levels.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Um what's that looked like from your side? I feel you guys have given me a ton of opportunity. I think that is what I've been given as opportunity. I don't think I have been I I think you've you've let me kind of prove myself and earned my keep a little bit. So you've given me the opportunity, but you've also let me kind of be in the sink or swim situation of being able to do it or not. And there's I think most of the time I've done pretty well, and there's been some things that I some opportunities that I've probably not done the best with, but I think in general, you guys have given me opportunities and I realize what a big deal that is. Uh you guys I think a big part of why you started this thing was opportunity for your family. I don't take for granted the work that you put in to give us these opportunities. So when I'm given those opportunities, I try to do my best with them. Um you guys have definitely pushed me, but I don't think it's been unfair or anything like that. I think coaching your kid is a good example. It's not a um it's a positive, it's not a negative that you're maybe a little harder on them.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Speaking of coaching your kids, who was the best coach you ever had?

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Coach Rick. I knew you were. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. It was you. Coach Rick was a really good coach, though. And honestly, Coach Mattingley from uh Lake High School Wrestling is a fantastic coach, also.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah, we had fun. We had um three years out in Albuquerque with the Trojans. It was a good time. Yeah, I was blessed. Um tell me uh of your time for everyone, what's the worst job you've had? I don't mean like install you've done, but the worst job you filled. And why? I because in my head I think I know what you're gonna say, but but I don't.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

It depends on how you define worst. If you're going with jobs that I liked the least, it I don't know if I should say it because we still have people that do this job. I'm gonna say it. It it would be what is now our BDT business development team, which is uh kind of like remote sales type of work. I was pretty good at it, I think. Yeah, you and I got to where I actually was making pretty good money because it was commission and bonus and stuff like that. But I just did really I really didn't like it. Just kind of sitting in an office working off your computer all day. Um, so then I took a promotion with about a 60% pay cut to run NEO as kind of and that that's the hardest like working job I've ever had because it was just me and Kaylin and me, and we had to do everything. So the weeks were long and it was a grind, but it's also one of my favorite times.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

Right, Brian, I know you have something you want to say, but just real quick, paint paint the picture of that. What so you're working in the office, you're making, I think, decent money, and we came to you with this proposition and just just tell us what what you had to do, what what what'd we lay out before you?

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Um, yeah, so we had a we did historically had a dealer that owned the territory where the home office is. So the way our company is set up, all the the work that we do runs through dealers if it's in their territory. So anytime anytime someone would want to buy turf from us, we kind of had to refer them to this dealer, and it was a little bit awkward and things. And the dealer was doing a lot of work, but not actually in Stark and Summit County, which is where their territory was, and maybe some of the counties to the south. So they had a territory realignment where they actually relocated their territory and opened this market up. So you guys came to me. I had been doing the sales type position for a few years at least. And you said, hey, this market has opened up. We think we should take it and make it our market, run it like a dealership, and actually focus on doing work in Stark and Summit County because it'd be good for the company. Number one, to have experience actually operating dealerships, but two, to have nice projects in the ground to show people when they come to visit us, because we didn't have tons of turf in the ground here. You asked me if I wanted to do it. I understood it was gonna be a big step backward in pay. I knew it was gonna be really hard work. I didn't quite grasp how much.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Define that a little bit. I mean, I I don't want to dig too much into your personal, but like there was opportunity, but you were gonna lose significant income.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

It was legitimately a 60% pay cut. Now, a lot of my pay in my previous position was through commissions, but I was good at the job. So it's pretty much a guarantee that every year I was gonna be making what I was making because I was uh decent at selling. Um this big step backward, and there was opportunity to earn as the business became profitable, which unfortunately I changed roles right before it got to that point. So I didn't quite feel but uh moved into the sports grass role. But um yeah, big big step, big step backward. Our office was a little probably 10 by 12 room uh out on the property that that you guys own. I think you did let us have it for free, which is which is nice. But we were just posted up in there. Uh we had no phones, we had no dealer email addresses, we had no webpage. We went through the whole process like a new dealer would have creating all of those things. Figuring out how to get a landline out there was actually pretty hard. I took a decent amount of time to get the phone set up. Um, we had to figure out how to market. I remember driving around, Kaylin and me. This was 2017, it was right before I got married. I remember we're like, what do we do? So we'll just have we'll go talk to people. So we just started driving around talking to people. We started with people we knew, like Scott Summers at Hartville Hardware and Klein's landscaping and things like that. And then we kind of went from there. And I remember talking to people, and they're like, Do you really think it's such a good idea to be doing this in Stark County? Like, do you think people actually will want to buy this in Stark County? We're like, Yeah, we think so. Like, okay. Like it just seems like the demand wouldn't be that much, and like, yeah, we think it'll work. And we'd work the home shows first couple years. We worked the home show, people are literally laughing at us, like, oh, that's hilarious. I should get that. But you know, they don't actually want to, they're just like being sarcastic. And you know, we made you just kind of beat the pavement and connected with people, and then we got our marketing to work, and now it's a pretty big dealership that turns consistent volume for us. But the early years was pretty hard. We were doing the sales and the install and everything.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

What do you think your biggest lessons out of that time were?

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Um, it was really helpful for me just to be able to understand what dealers go through when they start. I think that's something most I know that's something most people in our office don't have much of a concept of because they just have worked at the home office side, which is not bad, right? The people that work at the home office are people that have recognized that they want a career with a good company. That's what they signed up for. They didn't sign up for owning a business and all the risk and hard work and insane hours that comes with that. But I think for me, knowing um what the dealers go through helps me in my role, which is largely dealer focused. The brand leaders really exist to serve and help the dealers grow their particular brand. Um that was a good one. And then just like personal lesson would be the grit piece of just doing it, putting in the work and taking the hits, and you have to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

So when you tell that story, you are not exaggerating. I mean, I don't think Brian and I did anything other than telling you go start any yo. I uh yeah, I didn't even realize we weren't involved in any like direction, hey, go do this, any marketing, uh, just any of it. We we we literally just threw you guys out and said, do it.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

I didn't even realize we had the support from the accounting team. So you guys have an accounting entity that kind of handles the books for all your businesses. I didn't even know we had access to that. So I was like and manage our money and and do things uh myself, and then Nick was like, Hey, I got your financial reports if you want to look at it. I'm like, wait, what? You're you're doing stuff with this? And he's like, Yeah. So that was nice, but yeah, um, yeah, it was kind of just kicking the baby bird out of the nest.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Were you mad at us at all? For did like, did you feel like these guys really hung me out there? Or you didn't even think about that?

SPEAKER_03 32:35

There was a period when Tess and I first got married where I was maybe a little mad at myself for taking the job because we were making so little money, we were just kind of burning through, we were buying the house and kind of starting life together, and we were burning through kind of our paychecks and into our savings a little bit every month. But uh I was still as a whole very glad I took it. But there were some moments where I was like, man, I was like making really good money, I could have uh you know, could still be doing that, but the reality was I was coming out of the job I've liked the least with the company into something that I loved doing every day. And we built a little team that was awesome to work with, so hard work, but I don't regret it. Definitely not.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Back to the least, that surprised me because what I thought you were gonna say was when you worked in the warehouse, because you were alone and the warehouse was two miles up the road from where we were. And I remember you coming to the office one day and said, Is there anything I can do other than working in the warehouse?

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Yeah, the warehouse was funny because eventually I kind of like got given an office role. I think maybe just because I didn't have enough to do at the warehouse. So I'd be sitting down at the office, answering emails or talking to somebody on the phone or something like that. And Amy would come knock on the door, like, hey, there's a truck at the warehouse that needs unloaded. So I'd run out, jump in the car, drive two miles down the road, unload the truck. We did not have a forklift. So when stuff needed unloaded, if they didn't have a lift gate and a pallet jack, we were unloading pallets by hand. I remember doing that doing that with sand shipments a couple times, which was brutal. Um, but I think I did the one for such a short amount of time. I pretty quickly evolved into some other things. And I was there were traveling installs sprinkled in to keep things fresh too. Um but yeah, the the one that I enjoyed the least was the yeah, I don't know if it's safe to say I was best at sales, but it was something I was very good at. I just I just didn't enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

You led you led our company in sales 15 years.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

All right, having a great conversation here with Derek, but I think we probably are gonna split this into two episodes. So thank you for listening to Impact Without Limits Podcast. Stay tuned for next week.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

This is a Fred Call of me reminding you that faith looks up, hope looks ahead, and love looks all around to see whom it can help. Good day.