Impact Without Limits

S5 E5: Derek Karmie on Family, Business, and Leadership Pt. 2

• Dale and Brian Karmie / Adkins Media Co.

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In Part 2 of this conversation with Derek Karmie, the stories get even better. Derek shares a hilarious and memorable install story that captures the culture, camaraderie, and grit behind the work.

The conversation then shifts into leadership, legacy, and what it means to step into a second-generation role. Derek offers thoughtful insight on learning from those who came before you, staying true to core values, and pushing the business forward without losing its identity. He also reflects on the importance of involving family in the journey—showing how early exposure and real responsibility can shape the next generation of leaders.


Episode Highlights: 

  • Jumping back in: fun install stories.
  • Derek reflects on stepping into a second-generation role.
  • Lessons on leadership, identity, and growing a business.
  • The impact of involving family in the business journey.



Links Mentioned in Episode/Find More on ForeverLawn:

This show has been produced by Adkins Media Co.

SPEAKER_00

On paper, that should have been a terrible project. We're in the middle of nowhere in the in the fall in northern Arizona, like frigid cold, nothing to do for two months straight working on this project. And it was an absolute blast.

SPEAKER_01

Welcome to the Impact Without Limits podcast.

SPEAKER_02

Hey everybody, welcome back for part two of our conversation with Derek Carmy on the Impact Without Limits podcast. Um, tell me what one of your uh funniest, most memorable install stories.

SPEAKER_00

Well, probably the funniest install story wouldn't make any sense to anybody if they weren't here. It was Mischler do nothing that would make Builder mistake you for a toilet, which means nothing unless you were there. One of the funnier ones, though, that I think will be funny to people was the football toss. So we were on this install. Oh, that's the same project. So we were on this install with George Barry, who was a newer dealer. Was he a dealer at the time, or is he thinking about it? He was a dealer from Texas. I think the install was in Missouri or something like that. It was insanely hot. It was like 100 degrees, full humidity, no shade, no breeze, just burning hot. But we're doing this install. It was a playground, so there was a little basketball, outdoor basketball court nearby. And we had a football, and we had kind of been throwing a football around the job site. And George, who's from Texas, was kind of ribbing us about how Texas football is better than Ohio football, which of course is not true. So at the end of one of the work days, we decided that we would prove to him how much better Ohio football was than Texas by taking the football and shooting a shooting at the basketball hoop with it. So I don't remember who went first. So it was Dale goes first. We're 30 feet away, 50 feet, I don't know, 50 feet away, something like that. It was not an easy shot. Throws the football, boom, straight into the I think you switched it. Dale's was a nice spiral. It was a nice throw. Yeah. Um I missed. I don't know if I missed before or after everybody else, but I I miss. I was very I was very close. I I just missed. I was very close. So Dale makes it.

SPEAKER_02

So Builder is next. Yeah, so we start we start saying that's Ohio football. I'll take that, Texas. His bury had thrown 10 times. Right.

SPEAKER_00

He didn't he didn't make any.

SPEAKER_02

He was he was yeah, and I hit up with Skish and we're like Ohio's better, and he's like, oh well, and that's when Builder and Mischler come walking up.

SPEAKER_00

Walking over. Builder was our um, he was never full-time with the company, but he traveled and helped us on installs. Awesome guy, not very coordinated. So like, okay, Builder's got to throw. Builder steps up, he kills it. Kind of a dead duck. Swish.

SPEAKER_02

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

We were going nuts. I mean, look. George is kind of dejected.

SPEAKER_02

Builder throws that tries to hit that a hundred throws. He probably doesn't make one.

SPEAKER_00

No. So Mischler comes up next, and Misler's the he's the equipment operator. Again, great guy. Uh not probably not what you would call like a pop-tier athlete. Yeah, an athlete, an athlete. So he grabs the football and he throws it. And if I remember correctly, it flies like 50 feet in the air, like a big, huge lollipop, and just swish straight through the hoop. So we just started going nuts getting in George's face.

SPEAKER_02

Three swishes or three makes in a row.

SPEAKER_00

An absolute crack up. So that was a funny one. Uh the whole Navajo project was just like one big, giant, funny story. There's lots of good ones, but the football toss one is a good one that I think is somewhat able to be appreciated without having been there.

SPEAKER_01

All right. So I got a couple. Uh one, you're you're second generation stepping into the business. What kind of advice would you have for someone else who's out there? Maybe it's a Foreverland business, maybe it's um something different, but they're working with their parent or another generation and trying to step into a role in that business.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, a couple pieces of advice I would say. First of all, learn from the first generation because if the business is successful, they're doing things right. They were, were and are still the heart and soul of the business. So learn from them and pattern yourself after them. You don't have to be them. That's something I had to figure out is I don't have to try to be Dale or be Brian. I need to be myself, but I need to be myself that's been kind of impacted and influenced by you guys and what you've done. And then another one for me is just like that you can do it. I still struggle with that sometimes, like what you guys have built and uh how monstrous it's become and how you guys took it from nothing to what it is now, and I became a part of it later on. So there's sometimes that I don't know if self-doubt is the right word, but feeling that like this is this enormous thing that I'm stepping into and there's a lot of pressure, but you can do it. That's how I felt every time you guys have given me an opportunity is like this this one, this is a big one. This is a lot for me. And I've gotten through it and and I think done a decent job because you guys keep giving me more opportunities. So I'd say I'd say I'd say learn from them, learn the company, learn the like the identity of the company for us. It's the quality, integrity, innovation, the five F's, being creative, people of impact, all those things, and take that to heart because that's that's the really important stuff you don't want to want to lose. The business systems and all that stuff, the strategy will evolve as you go, but those core elements shouldn't change. So make sure you know those and you can do it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and and you you were talking at our conference last week about next generation and stepping in, and we're not going anywhere. Well, Dale might be. We're gonna be around for a little bit, but you talked about when the next generation takes over, uh, the three possibilities of what can happen with that business. Can can you just share that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it was play, preserve, and prosper. Play is the second generation comes in and they've got kind of this money and can afford them a cushy lifestyle for a while, so they kind of take it easy on themselves, do what they want, and you know, squander it. You know, it may not crash down on them, but it if it doesn't, the third generation's gonna struggle. You have preserve, which is when you come in and you just want to maintain the status quo and and keep things the way that they are, which is a little bit of a better option, but I still don't think is great. It makes me think of what Dale always called the pre-vent offense. Uh you team has a big lead, so all of a sudden they go super conservative on offense, they start running the ball, trying to burn the clock, and they just keep going going three and out and give the other team momentum. So I don't think that's that's a good option either. And then the third is prosper, which is where you step in, try to stand on the shoulders of the people that came before you and push the thing to new levels. Uh I think when you do that, it's important to understand the identity of the company, like I mentioned earlier, because if your focus is just on growth and you throw that stuff out the window, you can kind of take away the foundation of the company and set it up to collapse, either by growing, you know, maybe not by growing too fast, but for the sake of growing fast. Um, but you know, understanding the identity and still trying to push it forward is a big thing. And for us as a company, I think it's relatively easy. I shouldn't say easy, simple, because you guys have always been risk takers, and our one of our core values is innovation. So just by the very nature of our company, we're kind of built around moving forward. So just continuing with that.

SPEAKER_02

All right. Well, I don't want to put the pressure on you, but how old are you?

SPEAKER_00

I'm almost 33.

SPEAKER_02

All right. And I was 37 when we moved out. And you've been doing this for 15 years. So you are far beyond where where I was or where we were when we started. So I I think expectations are high for uh for what you can do and what you what you will do. Um, and and yeah, not going anywhere, but maybe maybe want to do a little bit less. So there will be more coming your way. Um what do you what do you see? What what do you see in the future for I I guess for for Evelyn?

SPEAKER_00

I try not to get too married to a vision of the future because I know things change and are dynamic and doors open and close and things like that. But I think that's a good start to an end. I think the things that will that will stay are the core values, the the purpose to be and create people of impact. That's not going anywhere. Uh the dealer network is not going anywhere. That's a a huge, huge asset for our company. We hear from people in our industry all the time. So I think there's foundational things that don't change. I think we'll continue to grow. I think the sports industry, the sports market for us will continue to grow. We have a small market share there. It's growing quickly, so there's a lot more we can do in that space. I think we'll continue to lead the way in the playground space. I think we'll take market share in the golf space. Uh, I don't know exactly how we've talked about a couple moves there, but I think that's coming. And then the areas where we've historically been strong, the landscape and canine, I think, uh a little bit of a dip the last few years, but I see us sort of re-establishing those brands as the leaders in their industry and continuing to grow. As far as money-wise, what the company looks like, it's really hard to say. Um, but I do know we want to like stay family-owned. I want my kids to have part of running the company someday. I want to hopefully, if they're interested, raise them in the company. So that's how I would answer that, I think.

SPEAKER_01

So you just talked about family and your kids, and family's one of our forever one Fs. Um what what were I guess maybe what encouragement or what advice would you give to other people that have, you know, families um with how maybe we did things right or did things wrong, but how we integrated family with business and made sure that we I don't like the word balance, but had a rhythm to to the family and work.

SPEAKER_00

You did things right. I think it started just by having strong families. Obviously, you guys have strong family units that you raised well in Christ, I think is a big part of that. Huge part of that. At a young age, you let me kind of be involved and be around, which led me to take an early interest and appreciation in what we had. Obviously, I mentioned as a kid tagging along on installs and stuff like that. But I even remember in high school, we used to finish, Justice and I, Ken Sun used to finish football practice in in summertime, in the off-season practice, and we would walk, you know, whatever it is, a mile or two. Instead of going home, we would walk to the office and just be there and hang out. And we weren't really working, we were just kind of goofing around, but we were there and we saw it and it made us feel like we were sort of part of it. And we both took a obviously an interest, both working the company now today. And then when I actually did start working full-time, I don't want to make up a Dale quote, but I'm gonna try to say it the best I can. Uh, basically told me, because I I wasn't thinking about doing college. It didn't really appeal to me. I could have, I had good grades, but I didn't really want to. And he said, I can guarantee you a job at Foreverlawn, but you'll start out making 10 bucks an hour working in the warehouse, and then we'll see what happens from there. And that was what I did, and I think that was really smart was you guys have had me work in almost every part of the company. The only part I haven't really held an official position in is accounting, but I've gotten some knowledge of that through running the home office dealerships and some of the other entities that I get to assist you guys with. But I've done everything else. I've done the warehouse, I've done the installs, I've done in-home sales, I've done phone sales, account management, run at the dealership level, uh, leading a brand now, leading a team that's involved in that brand. So I think that's what I would say is if kids want to be involved early, let them don't try to stiff arm them away, let them take an early interest. And when they start, give them an opportunity, but don't make it easy on them. Let them do everything, let them work their way up. Um let them earn additional opportunities. That's what has really helped me, I think.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that that's that's actually good when Derek and I I reflect on that. And look, you know, we we did some things right, we did some things wrong, but um we absolutely involved our kids and maybe you more than others because you were the oldest, but you were there when we signed up with the first dealer in El Paso, you were there when we signed up the second dealer in California, you were there when we met Greg Norfleet looking for the new product. Um, you remember you were with me we went down to Surface America, um, was a uh poor in place um surfacing company. Uh I don't know if it was Surface America, it was um Robertson. Robertson that they might have joined later. I don't know if you remember that. We we were driving through. We just walked into that. I had this meeting with this guy, and I walked in with you at that time. I think you were maybe twelve.

SPEAKER_00

Yep, I remember that. I didn't know I didn't know what that meeting was. I couldn't have told you what that was, but I remember the meeting now that you're talking about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And you know, on so not just installs, but meetings and being in the business. And Brian and I would a lot of times have talks about the business and about the future, and you would be sitting there, and the other kids you know would be sitting there and watching that. And uh that that's pretty valuable. So I know Bri, we've done a lot of things wrong, but every now and then you do enough stuff, you do some right too. And I think that was a good one. Um, I we're probably getting ready to wrap up. I'm thinking just looking at the time, I could I could talk for a while, really uh enjoy you being here and hearing some of this. But any uh any last um uh uh interesting story, a funny trip, or just anything you want to throw out there is uh, you know, your last last few minutes on the podcast here.

SPEAKER_00

So we had this project in 2013, I believe. It was three baseball, three baseball fields on a Navajo reservation in northern Arizona. Uh I think it was a project that had been in the works for a long time and looked like it was gonna go, and then it would disappear and it would come back, and eventually it's like, holy cow, this thing's actually sold. We have to go put in three, three baseball fields. At the time, remember, fields were not really part of our business. We would do one or two a year total. So we had to do three. And we had to do them that year. I think we might have gotten the contract in the late summer, maybe. So we're starting to install in the fall. Uh uh short, funny story about it, and then I'll kind of get to why I'm talking about it. We get all loaded up. We got truck. We're in Ohio, we got a truck, trailer full of equipment and tools. Um, we're literally staying in the in the middle of nowhere. Like we stay at a hotel in the middle of nowhere, and then we drive 45 minutes more to the middle of nowhere, and that's where the job is. So we bought all this canned food and stuff, we have it all packed into the trailer. We're getting ready to leave town. And Dale, Kalen, Builder, who I mentioned earlier, and myself are the team driving this truck across the country, make some stops along the way to do some little projects and whatnot. We're getting ready to leave, and Dale takes the truck and trailer to the tire shop just to get a quick once-over, make sure everything looks good. Shout out to Tina before we embark on our voyage. And he said, While he's there, he notices one of the techs looking at the tires on the trailer and he kind of gives them like a little scratch, or maybe kicks them a little bit and seems satisfied with them and like, yeah, good to go. We got you spare, and we're on our way. So for some reason, we left at night, so we're driving. We we leave Hartville where we live. We're driving, we make it about to Columbus. I don't think we're all the way to Columbus, which is less than two hours, and we're driving. All of a sudden, we feel this little like pop and a bump. We're like, eh, that was weird. I don't know what that was. I might hit like a pothole or something. So we drive a little more, all of a sudden we just feel pop, pop. And Dill says, We're losing tires, dranks the rig off to the side of the road. The trailer tires had been dry rotted, and we lost three, I believe, because the first pop we heard a few minutes earlier was the first one. We kept driving, then we lost two more real fast. Middle of the night. So we're sitting there, a state trooper comes by, very nice. She's off duty, and she's like, Hey, what's what's going on? You guys broken down? We're like, Yeah, we're stuck. It's like, okay, uh, I'll light some flares and leave them so you guys are safe, and I'll call you a tow truck. Like, okay, sounds good. Thank you. She calls the tow truck. She's like, All right, well, I'm off shift, so I'm gonna leave. So she drives away. So we're just sitting there on the highway. Um 71 probably, and uh this tow truck comes up and it's a normal tow truck. We have a crew cab F250 with a 20 foot 28-foot enclosed trailer. And he's like, Oh man, I'm not gonna be able to tow you guys. Like, yeah, no, you're not. What do we do? He's like, Well, there's other company you've got to call. They have a low boy trailer, they can winch the whole rig up onto it. It's like, okay, can you call them for us? Yeah, he calls them. We were waiting. It took him a long time to show up, but eventually this thing shows up a monstrous, monstrous tow truck with this whole system like drops off the back, and there are four of us, and he's driving a tow truck. So he gets there and he's like, hmm, I don't really have anywhere for you guys to sit. You're gonna have to stay in the truck. We are in the truck as he loads it up onto the tow rig and we are driving down the highway, sitting in the cab of the truck on his tow rig. So it's fine. We drive a little ways up. There's a truck stop he's gonna take us to. He's like, I'm gonna get you guys to this truck stop. When they open the mortar, they can get you tires. So okay. We make it to the exit, we get off the exit. As we're turning into the truck stop, we're like, hey, do you guys smell smoke? All of a sudden, the the tow truck just comes to a grinding halt. Like, what's going on? He comes out, he's like, My brakes just seized up, I can't go anymore. So the tow truck is broken down with our broken truck on it at the entrance to this truck stop. We're like, what are we gonna do? There was a little restaurant inside, it was a loves or something. So we go inside and we get something to eat while they bring a repair truck to fix the tow truck with our broken truck on it. They get it fixed, he gets in there and drops our truck off. It's the it's early hours of the morning, so we're not paying for a hotel. Except October? October. So it's a little brisk. Like, we have sleeping bags. So Dale and I go outside, fold down the ramp to the trailer, and just spent the night under the stars in the sleeping bags while the other guys slept in the truck. We wake up in the morning and we go to the shop, and they're like, Oh, we don't have any tires for this thing. So then Dale and I had to go drive around Columbus to these tire shops to source three tires to get the rig fixed to get back on the road so we could really just start our trip. But um, it was it was funny. The whole reason I'm telling the story, though, is on paper that should have been a terrible project. We're in the middle of nowhere in the in the fall in northern Arizona, like frigid cold, nothing to do for two months straight working on this project, and it was an absolute blast. I have so many stories from that. It was such a good time. There were hard days, it was very hard work, but we had the guys from New Jersey show up in shorts. Yeah, Joe shows up in shorts at 17 degrees and probably 30 mile an hour winds. He's like, I thought Arizona's supposed to be warm. His cousin Austin is like, Joe, I told you to check the weather, we're not going to Phoenix.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00

We all kind of contributed some clothes to him, but um, it was just, I think, a testament to doing something you love with people that you love because if you were out there with the wrong group, that would have been absolute misery. And we were having a great time. It was hard work we missed. It was hard work.

SPEAKER_02

We were we had to trench the fields, set the boards. Remember, we had to cut our own rebar.

SPEAKER_00

We had to cut our rebar. We had to finish the stone because the stone had been finished way before, so we had to regrade it.

SPEAKER_02

In the mornings, it was 17, 18, 20 degrees. We got hit with blizzards.

SPEAKER_00

We had windstorms that were picking up.

SPEAKER_02

Brian went for the ride on the magic carpet. We had a hundred fifty foot roll of car uh turf, go airborne and which weighs probably close to two thousand pounds.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Just blew away like a piece of paper.

SPEAKER_01

I remember we had those grippers latched in the side, and I I told everybody, I said, listen, if the wind comes, just let go. It's not worth it. And everybody else lets go, and I held on. And man, I went I probably was thrown twelve feet in the air. Yeah, and and 15, 20 feet down the down the path. And that was just crazy. You realize the force of nature with something like that. Because we couldn't move those rolls for all we were worth, and the wind came and just like boom, just like that.

SPEAKER_00

But it was yeah, just for me a testament to being with people that you like doing something that's important.

SPEAKER_02

That was there are so many funny stories and fun jobs. So you're right. I I mean, I was out there for I want to say 47 or 48 straight days without being home, just on that job. We used to sit in the trailer and we took like beans and soup and we'd grilled cook them, fire up a grill and then we'd yeah, there's a guy on the roadside right outside where the field was selling mutton from a trailer. We'd go eat some mutton, just just hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

There was the one burger shack nearby that we went to so many times we kind of got sick of and opted for the beans out of the can instead.

SPEAKER_02

But but you're right. I think when when you make up your mind to do something and enjoy doing it and you're with the right people, anything can be enjoyable. And we had a blast on that project.

SPEAKER_01

All right. So thank you. Uh it's been fun. It's it's fun working with you. It's fun to watch your progression and growth over the years into uh the the leader that you are today. And I know you said you don't consider yourself sometimes much of a leader. I think that uh there's a little bit of humility there. You certainly are. You you you lead the team well, and you um, you know, I I think you're the best type of leader that leads by example first, right? So I appreciate that. Appreciate um the role you've stepped into in our company. So thank you. Um looking forward to fun future together.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, thank you. This is fun.

SPEAKER_01

This is a threadcome reminding you that face looks up, hope looks ahead, and love looks all around to see whom it can help. Good day.