Impact Without Limits

S5 E14: Faith, Family, & ForeverLawn: A Conversation with Kaylyn Leyda

• Dale and Brian Karmie / Adkins Media Co.

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In this special episode of Impact Without Limits, Dale and Brian sit down with Dale's oldest daughter, Kaylyn, to hear her perspective on the early days of ForeverLawn. From childhood memories of moving to Albuquerque and growing up around a startup business to lessons learned about integrity, hard work, and family, Kaylyn shares stories that are both heartfelt and humorous. Along the way, listeners will enjoy behind-the-scenes moments, family adventures, and a glimpse into the values that helped shape the ForeverLawn journey.

Kaylyn also opens up about one of the most difficult seasons of her life—her battle with infertility—and the unexpected path that led her and her husband to adoption. With honesty, faith, and gratitude, she reflects on how God’s plans often look different than our own, yet can lead to blessings beyond what we could imagine. This conversation is filled with laughter, wisdom, and powerful reminders about perseverance, purpose, and trusting God through every season of life.


Episode Highlights: 

  • Growing up ForeverLawn.
  • Finding her own path.
  • From heartache to hope.
  • Lessons that last


Links Mentioned in Episode/Find More on ForeverLawn:

This show has been produced by Adkins Media Co.


SPEAKER_02

We have such a loving father that in the midst of hurt and heartache and in the pit, he is still working things for our good. And it might not be the answer we wanted, it might not be in the timing that we wanted, but he is going to answer. And I'm just really thankful that this is a story he's written for us.

SPEAKER_03

So, why would two guys leave comfortable jobs, move across the country, and start a business in an industry they don't know, a place they don't know? And could it be successful? We're Dale and Brian Carme. Join us as we share our story and inspire you to become people of impact. Welcome to the Impact Without Limits Podcast.

SPEAKER_04

Welcome back to the Impact Without Limits Podcast. This is Dale Carmi here with my brother Brian.

SPEAKER_03

Hey everybody. Today we have a special guest with us. Yes, we do. The special guest is Kaylin Lida. I almost said Carmy. I caught myself. Thanks. I was gonna go with Carmi. Kaylin is uh Dale's oldest daughter. Yes. And uh we just wanted to share some time and some memories uh of your childhood and what your dad did right and wrong.

SPEAKER_04

No, just oh boy. No, we just it's it's fun.

SPEAKER_03

We've we've uh decided to do uh you know some of these special episodes where we we interview some of our family because we kind of tell our version of the stories. It's fun to hear other perspectives and other versions. So welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's kind of fun. Not many people get to be on the set of their favorite podcasts, so it's cool.

SPEAKER_04

There you go. Podcast. Nice plug.

SPEAKER_02

I might be trying to get some uh favorite daughter Yeah, she's getting brownie points on that one.

SPEAKER_04

Good, well played, well played. So uh we don't really have it's funny. We we met here and we just talked a couple minutes before we we went live. We don't have any particular agenda. Uh usually when we have these, we just sit down and talk. So Caitlin is uh not prepared, no notes, no script here. But um, you know, Caitlin, we started this journey uh in 2002, which time you were seven years old.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And uh just just kind of want to see how much you remember. We're gonna ask you some questions as we go through it, but do you remember anything about leading up to us going to Albuquerque? Did you know what we were talking about, what we were doing? Was there no concept there?

SPEAKER_02

Uh, I mean, I knew you and Uncle Brian were going out to do something and get something started before we came out and joined you. Um, honestly, probably my like most like clear memory of that is Derek and I had this big paper map that we would put on the floor and you would call us and tell us where you were in the country on your driveout, and we would track you on your way to, and we would say Albuquerque or Albaturkey.

SPEAKER_04

You did say Albaturkey.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So um, and we would track that. So I remember that. I don't think I knew that it was artificial turf or like building up, like I don't think I understood any of that. I just knew you were going out to prepare something and work on something to make way for us to be out there with you.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and just gonna throw out there we do have a studio audience with us today. Caitlin, your daughter Avia is with us. So if you hear any little coups or cause or maybe even some applause from Avia first, she's applauding and uh she is advanced.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, I know she is your daughter, so it's not out of the question.

SPEAKER_02

But definitely not, not my DNA, but most certainly my daughter.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so so and and I remember that. I remember Brian, we certainly remember our journey across the country. And I do. And you know, like we're driving away from our families and to this unknown land. Um, but I remember calling home and and updating. Uh, and and mom and I had talked about that about having you guys track us as we went across, and we'd tell you we're here and we're here, and so you guys could look at the map. But you didn't really have any probably understanding of what we did before that we were software consultants. Uh you do know that we worked from home because you guys would come up to that front room where which was my office in the old house.

SPEAKER_02

We'd peer in the glass windows, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So that was a change to going from working at home to moving across the country.

SPEAKER_03

You know, it's so funny to think back on that house because that's a house I grew up in, right? But you and uh you you just think about that room. It was so different, right? It's kind of like a living room, family room, fireplace. It was a big open room above the garage, but then it had sliding glass doors that shut it off, right? So you would be in your office and you'd shut that sliding glass door, and I can just picture these two sitting there with that's what they were.

SPEAKER_04

They'd have their hands pressed up against the glass and their nose and looking in saying, Yo, can we come in? Can we do things?

SPEAKER_02

I'm sure my mom loved all the handprints on that.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay, so tell me then um some of your your earliest memories or understandings that we were doing artificial turf. What I like was was there somewhere where you think back and say, okay, I understand what what they were doing, maybe not why or the whole story behind it, but you're like, okay, this this is what my dad does.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So I remember um at the the first office, um there was this section of turf that you guys did where someone happened to miscut it and it was a little short.

SPEAKER_04

So there was a turf with the some ones you're looking at right here. That was the point fingers or name names. Which one it was. It was both of us.

SPEAKER_02

So um, like I remember seeing that and thinking that was really cool because I'd never seen fake graphs before. And so that was really neat. And then um honestly, I feel like the next things I remember in terms of like timeline was just crawling over all the rolls in the warehouse. Like when we'd come to visit, we'd just go run around the warehouse and climb on what felt like mountains of rolls. They're probably only like seven or eight feet off the ground, but it felt like we were like climbing Mount Everest and sliding down and jumping around. So I like I remember that and and so that aspect of it. And then um I don't remember what project it was, but it was a project where mom was pregnant with Jenna. McKenna was like three, I was sinking nails along the edge of the project. McKenna was playing in the middle of it, and I think Derek was uh doing rubber or running a like a broom of like the power broom. Um, I feel like that was the first like real hands-on that was early on.

SPEAKER_04

I was gonna say that was pretty early because um we went out in September of 2002, and that job was in Tucson in either late January or early February 2003. That was pretty early, and that that was that that was that trip where I kind of told mom because we didn't have a refrigerator at home, and I'm like, hey, why don't you you know come with us and bring the kids? It'll be a little bit like a vacation. Um, she didn't realize that we were all gonna stay in one room, all of us being not just mom and all the kids, but Uncle Brian as well. And we weren't in a hotel, we were in a mmm motel. Um, but yeah, so that's it.

SPEAKER_03

I think that might have been part of when you learn not to oversell and underdeliver. I think that trip. Yeah, that was someone did not that was a hard lesson. Well, uh, it ended well like as far as getting married. It ultimately ended well. In the end, there's a little bit of Glory was a trooper, but man, I remember she was not in a good mood when she left. No, she wasn't. But it reminds you you you joked a little bit about it was gonna be like a vacation. But I was thinking the other day, just yesterday, we were talking about home shows, and the the idea that like home shows for our kids were like those were the do you remember those?

SPEAKER_02

Tell me about yes, because the best. That was like you get all the swag. Yes, you get all the fun stuff that we were not able to get other ways. We'd get the the toys and the knick-knacks and the crayons and yeah, it's candied and pens and food. And then as I got older, there I remember one home show we worked, we were right around the corner from a goat cheese booth. It was so good. I'd get little crackers with goat cheese on it, or there'd be salsa people.

SPEAKER_03

So, I mean, home shows were they were a huge source of business for us early on, and so often it was in you know in Albuquerque where we lived, but like that, we would make that source of entertainment and food for our families. And we could use the kids playing on the the artificial grass to pull people in. It was great. It was such a but it was just so funny because you know, I remember my kids used to get so excited about home shows, like, oh, there's a home show, can we go? And it's just they were so fun. It's hilarious to think that like that was the fun times.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, I remember the first home show I worked uh when I was doing sales at NEO, I was like really excited for because I hadn't done a show in a long time. It's gonna be really great. It was good. We got a lot of leads, but I was very bored working the booth, and it was not as reminiscent as I hoped it would be of my early days.

SPEAKER_04

Working the booth isn't as fun as running the show. Uh although it can be good, it can it can be fun and exciting. Um all right, so we were out in Albuquerque, you were seven when we went out, you were just turning 12.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right when you came back.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

While you were out there, did you, as a kid, did you know or understand that we didn't have much money, that utilities were getting turned off, that mom couldn't go to the grocery store and buy food, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03

Did you was that an awareness in darkness and wonder why?

SPEAKER_02

I did not. I like I truly had no idea. Um, like I remember even like I remember being at the store, and I don't know if mom told this story when she was on the podcast or not, but um, there was a time when Derek and I were at the store with her, we're going around and marshmallows were on sale, and we really wanted marshmallows. So we took a bag of marshmallows up and we're like, mom, can we get marshmallows? And she said no. And Derek said, like, they're only like at that time it was probably like 49 cents or something. And she's like, I know, we just can't afford them. Literally went over my head. I had no idea. I'm like, okay, we just can't get marshmallows. Like it wasn't until um we were I like you guys had released the Grass Without Limits book, and I read the book, and I it like all clicked like, oh my gosh, we were broke. Like, I I had no idea. I was so you guys made life so fun. And we like, I don't know, I feel like I lived a rich life. Like I had rich experiences. I got to see a lot, I got to go to a lot of places. I know you sacrificed a lot for us to be able to do those things, but like I would have before that book, I probably would have had no idea. Honestly, I think even without the book, I don't know if I would have ever put it all together. I'm like, go.

SPEAKER_04

So tell me, is that your favorite book of all time? It's aside from the Bible.

SPEAKER_01

It's yeah, it's up there.

SPEAKER_04

It's up there. Okay, I'll I'll take an up there. Um, all right, Blue Bunny. Does that mean anything to you if I say blue bunny?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_03

That one just brought me a flashback. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That was great. So uh Blue Bunny had uh an office. What was it in the same row as yours?

SPEAKER_04

There's probably like we were in a we were in a strip plaza that was just like long. There were uh it was almost the whole outfit was a whole alpha player.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we were in unit J initially. So we were down at like X or something. We're like 30 units.

SPEAKER_02

And they had a freezer in the front that had blue bunny samples, probably for people who were coming in, wanting to open up commercial accounts and whatnot. Little did they know they were going to be supplying the Carmi kids as much blue bunny ice cream as they could.

SPEAKER_03

I remember while we were there. One of the first times we were there, this guy came over and he was like, Hey, if you ever want any blue ice cream, just stop down. We got a freezer full of ice cream. You can take whatever you want. And we were like, Really? We could take whatever we want. He's like, sure. They just give it to me to give away, to spread the word. It's our advertising. So we could just come down and grab ice cream out of the cool. He's like, Yeah. So we're like calling the wives. Hey, bring the kids, bring the kids. We got we got something. Send them down to the end. I remember, man.

SPEAKER_04

So it was Derek, Kaelin, McKenna, Julia, and Paige. And Paige would have been really little. She might have had to been carried down. But they'd go running down the sidewalk to the end, and they'd go into the blue bunny place and just like clear out that freezer. He didn't know it.

SPEAKER_03

They ended up shutting that office down. It lasted what, maybe six months to a year.

SPEAKER_04

We got uh several trips down there for free ice cream, and then they shut that down. Oh, that was great. That was funny. All right, what about um I'm sorry, I'm just I'm just throwing stuff out there. What about the secret park? Do you remember the secret park?

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04

Does that mean anything to you?

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't remember the secret park.

SPEAKER_04

I think Derek would remember the secret park. Do you remember the secret park? I don't remember the secret park. I guess you do. Well, okay, I we we we so there was a park that was up off of uh San Francisco. Yes, yes, yes, yes. San Francisco, was that the street? I forget. Yeah, but there was just a park that was um not directly near your house or my house, but we found and we called it the secret park because nobody was going to it. Nobody went to it, yes, and so we'd go there and we'd take the kids and they'd go play and nobody was ever there. We called it the secret park.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know how I don't remember that. Like that, no, no memory of that whatsoever.

SPEAKER_03

All right, so you you talk we talked a little bit about you know, there were periods where there was a lack of finances, lack of resources, but there were also periods where we worked a ton, we worked a lot of long hours and we weren't home or weren't present as much. Um did you ever feel like, hey, where's my dad? Did you feel neglected? I was trying to ask it in a little bit of a positive way that she could possibly answer it in the affirmative.

SPEAKER_02

Um I mean, like yes and no. Um like I knew to a degree why he was gone or why you guys were gone so much. Um, I don't think I ever felt like abandoned or neglected, like because I knew there was purpose behind it. Um, but there definitely were seasons where he would come home from a long day and he'd be come in, eat dinner, and he'd be sitting on the couch and we'd be either running around the living room playing games or like be throwing a ball, and next thing I look over and he's just out cold asleep. Uh, and so there were seasons where even when he like when he was home, he was resting for when he was gonna get up early the next morning and leave, or you know, just resting his eyes a little, as he might say. So um, but I definitely remember seasons of him not being like present much in the terms of like like actually physically there, but when he was there, he was like present. Like you were engaging with us and playing games and telling stories and wrestling without like us, and so it I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04

Like well it does. I'm glad to hear you say that because that's what I've always said is when when we were home, we were home, right? When when we were there to uh either spend time with our our our wives or our kids, we dedicated that time, right? It was undivided. But you know, that might be just dinner and an hour or two after the kids go to bed, and then you pop open the computer and it it was back to work. But yeah, uh you know, I think that's where we talk about the quality of time, maybe over the quantity of time uh comparison.

SPEAKER_03

So as we got to a point um and said you would have been about 12 when we were getting ready to move back to Ohio, was that an exciting time for you? Were you excited to come home or were you sad about leaving Albuquerque?

SPEAKER_02

Oh man. No.

SPEAKER_03

Is that a setup? Do you know the answer to that? I don't I actually that was not a set I noticed you guys both kind of chuckling at the time. Do you want to tell the story?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so uh it was my 12th birthday, and the big thing when we turned 12 in our family is for the girls is they could get their ears pierced. And so that was like a big birthday in our household. Um, I guess that was the first one. Interesting. And then by the time Jenna came around, she could just get her ears pierced whenever she wanted. She didn't have to wait until she was 12. There we go. So I turned 12. And my parents planned uh this day. My best friend at the time, Nicole. Um, I think we skipped school. We went to the mall the whole day together, got my ears pierced, got a an at like a massive candy chocolate-coated apple from Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory. I think we maybe went to it's and like we just did all this fun stuff.

SPEAKER_04

I think we had to turn her up. I think we had a giant cookie.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, the cookie cake. So we go back to the house, we do the cookie cake. I'm sure we went out to dinner. I don't know where we went. So then uh Nicole uh gets picked up before.

SPEAKER_04

I know this sounds like a pretty big splurge, but this was 2006. We were we were we were turning. We weren't wealthy, but we had enough money to get a cookie and have a party.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and so Nicole left before gifts. So I just like thought was weird, but you know, whatever. It was a school day. We spent the whole day together. And then we're doing gifts, and I'm opening my gifts, and I don't remember anything else I got. But then my dad said, Hey, I've got one more thing that like we want to show you. He pulled out his computer and he turned around and he's and it was a picture of a house with like a green yard. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you bought a house, and he's like, We did. And I'm like, Oh my goodness, and he's like showing us house and he said, and look at where the address is, and it said Ohio, and I just broke down sobbing, burst into tears, which really wasn't fair for them because I am pretty sure every day since we live moved to Albuquerque, I asked when we were going back to Ohio to be close to our cousins, to be close to our family. But I guess, like in the course of being in Albuquerque, I didn't realize how much Albuquerque became home and how much the people there became family. Um, and so I think had you asked me before then if I would have been excited if we were gonna be back, I would have said yes. But that was just a weird like all this time with my best friend, they're like the greatest day, got my ears pierced. I'm feeling old and cool. And then, like, oh, and by the way, come summertime. Yeah, this isn't this isn't gonna happen anymore.

SPEAKER_04

You talk about misreading a room. I mean, Lori and I obviously thought that was like a gift. We we thought that would be a great surprise for her, and she'd be excited. We made our 12-year-old daughter burst out in tears and run to her room sobbing.

SPEAKER_01

I think I literally cried on her 12th birthday.

SPEAKER_04

She did. And Lori and I just sit in her, like, what did we just do? We ruined her 12th birthday. It is memorable. Oh my gosh. You still remember it.

SPEAKER_02

Great. The other birthday I remember from when we were out there, which was probably honestly probably my like top two birthday of all time, was again, I had no idea we were broke, no clue. Because for one of my it had to have been like my 11th birthday, all I wanted was whitening strips and like something else. I think like a container for my markers or whatever. And you guys got me whitening strips and this gorgeous desk that I thought was the most beautiful thing. Oh, the desk. And it wasn't until we came back to Ohio that mom's like, yeah, we got that at a thrift store because we couldn't afford anything else.

SPEAKER_04

I think I spent $10 on that desk.

SPEAKER_02

It was great. I wonder.

SPEAKER_04

It was, I'm pretty sure, your 11th birthday. I I think I spent a total of $40 for your birthday.

SPEAKER_01

It was great. That's $40 you ever spent.

SPEAKER_04

If if that much, I I got the desk. I think we got you a sweater from the thrift shop too, and then probably the whitening strips. Yeah. And that was your birthday.

SPEAKER_01

Loved that birthday.

SPEAKER_04

But note to parents, it's not necessarily about how much you spend, but getting getting the right gifts.

SPEAKER_03

And second note to parents if you start with very few gifts, then just a little bit looks like a lot. It does. Yes. But if you start with a lot, where are you going? All right. So and I I don't want to fast forward too much, but you you're you're working in for everyone now. Um, but like growing up, were were you did you think, hey, like I'd like to be a part of that someday, or was it just like didn't really think about it until you were an adult? Like, what was your for everyone experience?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I mean, I was pretty early on was cutting samples, which I thought was pretty great. I think I was paid a dollar per stack of ten that we cut and cleaned. Um, and that was dude. Hey, we flush with cash.

SPEAKER_03

We could use that in the warehouse again if we can get a dollar a sample. Um, it's ten cents a sample.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, so it was one dollar for ten samples. I don't know if it's quite right. I thought it was a dollar a sample. Maybe I don't know. No, you know what it was? It was when we did that. Oh, it was the mats. Yeah, who'd we do that for?

SPEAKER_03

Um we can't say the name. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

But yes. But it was a a store, had a retail store, but it's an online catalog as well that does new and neat ideas.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

They're very sharp. Yes, they are very sharp. It's it's an image of sharpness. But anyway, we had to cut, I don't know what it was, like a couple hundred mats. And they were you know for for a display, you know, like one foot by two foot or something. And I told you guys I'd pay you a buck for each one you cut, and you and Derek, you went to town.

SPEAKER_03

It seems pretty wise to give like what a 13 and 11-year-old or 14 and 10-year-old, what's the age difference there? Yeah, two years. Yeah, 18 months. So 13 and 11 or 12 and 10, give them knives and say, go cut the samples. Go cut the samples. What's wrong with that? And you know what? They did a good job. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I don't remember either one of us cutting ourselves in that whole situation. Talk about skill.

SPEAKER_03

That's nice.

SPEAKER_02

Get good, then get fast, right?

SPEAKER_03

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_04

Get good, then get fast.

SPEAKER_02

So I so coming from that, pretty early on, like while we were still in Albuquerque, it was after we visited uh Destin, Florida. It was like all of the Dale and Bryan Crimy Kids. The dream was to own the Destin Foreverlone dealership. Like that was the we're gonna live in Destin, we're gonna sell turf, we're gonna be on the beach, it's beautiful. And then I remember, I was like, honestly, like I think kind of what I'd had like in mind, kind of through middle school, kind of going into high school.

SPEAKER_04

Then I remember when you signed the I was gonna say, how how upset are you with Brian and Mercy?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, not now because I would not want to live, wouldn't I like being close to family? But when they signed on, I was like, Dad, you've gotta be kidding me. Be sure.

SPEAKER_03

I got blowback on that one. That was Derek's fault. They were looking at potentially Georgia and other areas, and Derek was the one that threw out. How about Destin? How about Destin? That would be a good area.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, Derek.

SPEAKER_03

And it is, it's a great area. They're doing a great job.

SPEAKER_02

So but yeah, so uh for most of my like childhood, that was like that's what we're gonna do. Like, we're gonna do that. And there was like a Kenna and I talked about doing at one point, and Derek and I did, and that was kind of just like the dream. And then uh junior year, I started working in the warehouse uh after school and started cutting samples and cleaning samples. And um, I pretty quickly decided I didn't want to go to college. Um, I didn't like I'm a little anti-authority, and I didn't like that everyone.

SPEAKER_04

Where do you get that from?

SPEAKER_02

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04

Obviously, from her uncle or her mother is crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and I hated that everyone was telling me I had to go to college, essentially minus like my parents and like you and Aunt Angie, everyone was like, Where are you going to college? Where are you going to college? And I had people in my class tell me that I was stupid for not meaning to go to college, and I was like, Well, I'm just gonna show all of them. Like, I'm gonna build something great with my life without going to college and just kind of well, you know, just show them off or show show them that they were wrong. And so you want to stick it in their ear, right? Yeah, I was just I was trying to say there. Yeah, like I just I they were dumb and I needed them to know that. So uh and so uh I didn't know what that was gonna look like, but I actually just started telling my guidance counselors at school that I was taking a gap year because they were so annoying and easier thing to co-hounding. Um and it was just less fighting that I had to do. So uh started at Forever Lawn uh doing honestly, I think I was kind of like your assistant when I came when I grab graduated, I did a mission trip in the summer and then came back and I started full-time right away. And I did um like admin work and things. Um and then kind of grew into customer service, built out our closed loop warranty system, and then um I interned down in Georgia and I was hooked at that point. Like I knew I wanted to end up working in the production realm to some degree, um, and RD and product development.

SPEAKER_03

And so um Okay, I want to take a step back because you you you say intern down in Georgia, and I know what that means, but we didn't have a location down in Georgia at the time.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, yeah, we did not.

SPEAKER_03

You went down and worked with one of our suppliers and you worked in all different aspects of the business.

SPEAKER_02

I did, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Talking a little bit about what that experience was like.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, um, it was really cool. One, I realized that I was not I did not like being by myself because I went down there, I didn't have any friends, didn't have any family, and I stayed in a house um on the property of some family friends that we have.

SPEAKER_04

You can use their name.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so I stayed, um, the people's family had a house on their property, and uh I stayed there and I stayed there by myself, and I just was bored a lot of the time because I'd work 12-hour shifts in the factory and then come back. So that was like the biggest realization. But so what I would do is I'd go in, clock in at 7 a.m., and they would tell me where I was gonna be that day. And so I think the first thing that I did while I was down there was working the creel, which the creel is um the section of the machinery where each bobbin of yarn gets run through, is housed and then run through tubing down into the tufting machine. So there's 720 needles on a tufting, or is that right? My brain broke.

SPEAKER_04

Depends on the gauge. I think you've got 480 on a normal. Right, so you've got 480 and then you've got thatch. Right.

SPEAKER_02

So you've got thatched. You've got 720 spools of yarn actively running through this machine at the same time. But then on top of that, you've got duplicates for each one of those for when one runs out. You've tied in the back end of the second one so it runs. So I worked on the Creole, and that was um, I was the laughing stock of the Creole because they make use of Hispanic labor down there. I do not speak Spanish. I did not take a single Spanish class ever. And they all yell, because they're all Hispanic or Spanish speaking, I should say, they yell everything out in Spanish. And I, they would just sit and watch me haul up and down the creel, bottom, top floor, bottom floor, trying to figure out what line broke and where it's at and how to tie it back in. And like at one point, there's just this white girl running around the creel, not knowing what anyone is like saying and telling her. And they were like kind, like they weren't mean about it. But I look around and most of the other machines had entirely stopped and were gathered around watching me work the grill. I think I was the only non-Spanish speaking person in the entire, like as far as like factory workers. I think I was the only one in that facility. So, um, but that was fun. I uh learned a lot. So I did that. Then I worked on the coder, worked on a tufter for a week, worked on the knitter uh for a long time. I worked on the knitter for a long time. Um, it was cool because one, I got to see when I got to meet a lot of really cool people. I got to build relationships and um that I wouldn't have any other way that have honestly served me really well uh in the time in my career. Um also gave me a wealth of knowledge and not just knowledge, but firsthand knowledge of processes and seeing, like I got to see things go wrong. And that sounds weird, but like I got to see yarn break and I got to see what that looked like and how you're supposed to fix it. And if it doesn't get fixed, what that looks like on the back end. And um, and so it gave me when I started working in like customer service and claims, it gave me a really good like gauge of okay, this is what we're seeing, and it like being able to track back and say it likely happened in this process and this is what happened. So here's potentially what we could do to fix it on site and move like work through it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and you were down there for seven weeks, yeah, seven or eight weeks. You lived there. And every, like you said, every day you get up and you went and you worked at a different spot in the process to learn it. And I I believe still to this day, you're you're probably the most knowledgeable person in Foreverlone with regards to the products, the processes, how things are made, what you know, what goes into it. And uh you know, that's a testament to your your knowledge, but you're putting yourself in position to learn and do that. So that that's that's a neat part of your journey. Um I I'm gonna change gears a little bit. Tell me, um I I'm gonna ask you for a funny story, just something, but before I get to that, tell me some of the what what you would say lessons you've learned, key lessons or or key um I I don't know, traits, values you learned growing up in Foreverlone or growing up in our family.

SPEAKER_02

Uh the biggest thing I probably learned growing up uh in our family was about integrity. And it's not just what you do when you're in front of people, but what you do behind closed doors and how you carry yourself in all aspects of life. Um and I kind of thought that was like a normal thing that kids like learned a lot about growing up, and I think they do, but I didn't realize to the um the extent that you and Brian really like talked about it and ingrained it and I said, this is how you live life, this is how you operate a business, and and so that is um that's probably one of them. But I think just hard work, um I'm not I feel bad saying this. I am not the grittiest person in the world. I actually think I lack a grit. It's something we're working on. Um but hard work and um not shying away from work and being willing to jump in and do it and learn new skills. Um like I said earlier, things like the getting good and then getting fast, um character first, and like honestly, all the axioms. Yeah. So yeah, anyway, all the axioms, um, those are things that again, probably other people learn, but things that I learned.

SPEAKER_03

Um I got a quick question on axioms. Did you say you're a podcast listener?

SPEAKER_02

I am, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Were there any axioms that shows that came out and you thought I don't know if I've heard that before?

SPEAKER_02

Um yes, actually, the one of the even a dead fish can float downstream. I don't think I've ever, and I understand the concept of it. I don't think I ever remember my dad saying that.

SPEAKER_04

However, okay, that was the dad. That surprises me.

SPEAKER_02

However, I have been slapped with the um life's not fair, and if it were, we'd all go to hell by Uncle Brian on a handful of occasions.

SPEAKER_03

That one's just the Brian, that's a sticky. Yeah, that one, that one seems to be gaining traction. Uh yes.

SPEAKER_01

It's good.

SPEAKER_04

All right. Uh do you have any funny stories that for either from the time in Albuquerque or since that you just that jump out at you when you're thinking back like that? That was either amusing, um, funny, uh embarrassing, what have you. Oh can I set you up for a funny story?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because honestly, I feel like I'm alone. She's got a she's got a blank look on her face.

SPEAKER_03

This is before Foreverline.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Oh.

SPEAKER_03

You know where I'm going.

SPEAKER_01

I think I know where we're going.

SPEAKER_03

This was you and Derek came over to stay with Aunt Angie and and me. And I don't know if we would have had any kids at that point, but they were were they were babies. I don't know that we did. And we we decided to make pretzels, homemade pretzels.

SPEAKER_02

We did make homemade pretzels, but you didn't eat them. I did not eat a single homemade pretzel.

SPEAKER_03

Why didn't you eat those homemade pretzels?

SPEAKER_02

Because as we were making the pretzels, we were you were telling us like what to do and what to put where, and it came time to put yeast into water. And I was like, Why do we have to like we were just asking, like, why do you have to put yeast in water? And you're like, well, it'll bubble and it'll like we'll become active and come alive. And we're like, what do you mean alive? And you're like, well, yeast is like little bugs. And I was like, What? I'm not eating bugs, and so I was so grossed out, I would not eat a single pretzel.

SPEAKER_03

That was great. You made the homemade pretzels, they didn't eat them. She didn't say anything, like, but it was like we made these pretzels and we were all excited, and they were pretty good, and we went to eat them, and she was just like, You don't want any? I'm like, wow, I wonder why she doesn't want any. I don't even know if I found out that night, but when I ended up finding out what happened, I was cracking up.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like they're tiny little animals or little bugs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

What? Yeah. Well, you say organisms or bacteria or whatever. It doesn't make sense. I was trying to relate to a kid. Yeah. You did.

SPEAKER_02

You definitely related.

SPEAKER_03

That was funny. All right. So any funny Forevermond stories?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So the one that comes to mind is it was uh we lived on Valley Court in Albuquerque. And I think it was like the um the curb guy had come and had done the curb with the lights. Um and so we were doing that, and you had you guys were out there, and the crew of like college, high school kids were out there working with you, and you had a trailer that had a ramp up, like a dump trailer had a ramp up the back. And they were thinking they were so cool if we were across the street, like Derek Kenna, and I were just watching all of this, and they're trying to take full barrow wheelbarrows and run up the ramp and dump it into the truck, and they were all failing miserably. They one, most of them couldn't get it up. Two, if they did, they were looked silly doing it. And I don't remember if it was you and my dad or just my dad. And I don't know if you guys you seemed irritated. I don't know at them maybe because they were goofing off, or if it was just like it was just from the outside perspective that you were like irritated, that you seemed irritated. And dad takes that wheelbarrow and just sprints and gets that up there and just leaves all these young young guys who are supposed to be like the the muscle of the crew, like the heart, like the the laborers, I guess. That's a bad way to say that.

SPEAKER_04

No, that's right.

SPEAKER_02

But anyway, you totally showed them up, and then they just kind of like all hung their heads a little bit and went back to work.

SPEAKER_04

I I mean that that was our thing, right, Brian? We would first of all when they would fill the wheelbarrow, they would only like fill it halfway. Half fill it.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe three quarters.

SPEAKER_04

And and then we we had a little narrow board, it might have been a six-inch board. I don't know that that was OSHA approved, might running up to the dump trailer, which the dump trailer sat pretty high. Yeah. And these guys could not run the wheelbarrows up, and and we're like, all right, out of the way. Yeah, there was probably a little bit of disgust in our in our voices, but it was also a little bit humorous, humorous to us. And we we would fill that wheelbarrow with more, put in more, we'd get it the little gravel spilling out over the edge and or dirt, and we'd run it right up the ramp and into the the uh the dump trailer. I just remember sitting on the curb. You guys I didn't even remember that you guys were watching.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like we were heckling the other guys, and then you didn't.

SPEAKER_03

Well, they were failing. They were failing. It wasn't that they're they couldn't. I don't know if they dropped it off to the side or we had to catch the colour. I know there was at least one spilled a couple that we had to help.

SPEAKER_02

I don't actually remember anyone making it into the truck or the trailer except for you and my dad.

SPEAKER_04

I uh without help, I don't think anybody did.

SPEAKER_02

So but that was good. I like that. That was a good one. Good job, Katie. I mean, it's a bummer that my mind is entirely blank because there are countless hilarious stories. Some that I am the star of and many that I am not, and I can't think of a single one.

SPEAKER_04

That's all right, that's all right. Um okay, I'm I'm gonna change gears here. Give give me um give me a uh a hard time you you went through and what you learned from it.

SPEAKER_02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04

It could be anything.

SPEAKER_02

Well, because she's curious today, I'll talk about this one. But um, so wait, does it have to be work-related? No. Oh, okay. No, not at all. So uh my husband and I got married in the end of 2021, and we had decided we wanted to wait.

SPEAKER_03

Hey, real quick, what's his name? Let's give him a shout out.

SPEAKER_02

Bobby.

SPEAKER_03

All right, Bobby. There you go.

SPEAKER_04

Bobby Carmi, right? I'm sorry, Bob. Bobby Lida. Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_02

Um we got married 21, and we decided we were gonna wait about 18 months before we started a family. And so uh we we get to 18 months and we start trying, and like nothing's really happening. And then um, about six months into us trying, I started getting really bad abdominal pains um and started having some other symptoms and go to get check out, checked out. And it turns out I have a an 11 centimeter cyst on one of my ovaries. And so I have to go in for surgery. Um, they remove the cyst and unfortunately are unable to save my ovary in the process. So here we are, a young-ish family or a couple that wants to start a family, and my chances of having kids essentially went out the window. Um, we were given about a 5% chance to ever conceive naturally, and that doesn't include caring to term and things like that. So um, that was really hard for me because my whole life, all I wanted to do was to be a wife and a mom. And then I can't got to a point um where I didn't think that was gonna happen. Like I didn't think I was gonna get married. And I was like, okay, well, I'm just gonna become like the cool aunt who travels and does all these cool things. And then I met Bobby and I was like, oh my gosh, that dream of being a wife and a mom is still alive. And so um we tossed around like what we were gonna do, and but I was just crushed.

SPEAKER_04

You were definitely crushed.

SPEAKER_02

Crushed, like defeated. I was honestly defeated. And I never questioned that God was good or that he was the Lord of my life and that he was in control of the situation, but I doubted that I would ever feel goodness um, like this side of heaven again, which I realize looking at now is super extreme. But it just felt like the thing that I was designed to do, the thing my body was designed to do, and the first commandment we were given, which is to be fruitful and multiply, was taken from me. And so I was like, how in the world? Like, what am I supposed to do with my life now? Like I'm 27 years old, I have one ovary that's not working, and I can't have a family, and that's all I want. And so we about we struggled. So from the time we started to the time we like got the infertility diagnosis was about two years. Um, then we started talking options and just talking through it. We quickly decided IVF was not going to be something that either one of us wanted to pursue. Um, and then it came down to like adoption. And we're like, okay, so we'll talk to the options there. And we decided to go with private adoption, which is where um you become a family in waiting after going through all of the federal and the state things to be to become an adoptive parent. And then you can um present to a mom who is pregnant, who is considering adoption. She looks at all of these families that are wanting to adopt, and then she selects the family that she wants to um place her child with. Right. Uh so we started that process, and um, we were told we were gonna be um we got through the home study, which was I understand why they do them, but it was grueling. We I probably did four or five hundred pages of paperwork all while trying to grieve like infertility and all of that, going to therapy, working through all of that, um, get the home study done. And we were told we had about 18 months till we would likely match with a parent or with parents. And uh 12 days later, we got a phone call that our daughter was waiting in a hospital for us to come and get her. So um just like, man, coming from like the depths of sorrow and like being in this pit of like, what is my life supposed to be? Because this thing that I have probably the thing that I've idolized, like I did, I really did turn being a mom into an idol. And I had to wrestle through the Lord with that. But this thing that I idolized, this thing I built my hopes and my dreams around was shattered and it was gone. And so what do you do after that? Like, how do you come back from that? And just seeing the Lord like what I thought was like almost like cruelty, like, hey, like I know you want this thing, but I'm gonna take it. Like you can't have it, you're not gonna get it. And getting to see, like, getting to see the goodness in the midst of the bad thing that happened, this side of heaven is so beautiful. And I'll be so thankful for that because a lot of the times the struggles and the things we go through, we're not granted the ability or the chance to see the goodness that the Lord is working out of it. And so I have the most beautiful, most precious daughter with the most incredible story. And every day I look at her and I just realize like it's it's a weird dichotomy because I look at her and I say, like, there's no reason she should be mine, right? She's not not my. DNA, she wasn't from my state. There was no connection with her mom, none whatsoever. But I also look in her, I think, like, man, before you were conceived, the Lord knew that you were going to be in my arms. And that's just like so beautiful to me that we have such a loving father that in the midst of hurt and heartache and in the pit, he is still working things for our good. And it might not be the answer we wanted, it might not be in the timing that we wanted, but he is going to answer. And I'm just really thankful that this is a story he's written for us. It's not the one I would have written for myself, but I'm really happy it's what's been written.

SPEAKER_04

That was very well stated, Caitlin. That's awesome. But like, could you imagine now, knowing what you know, not having Avia is your daughter?

SPEAKER_02

No, like I think about that. Like I think about like what if we had been able to get pregnant? You would have what would have happened to her.

SPEAKER_04

I would have never known Avia.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_04

And it just and what happens to her and how does her future play out without you there to receive her?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_03

Thanks for sharing that. That's really good. And there's a lot of nuggets of wisdom in there, and and um, you know, sometimes the the best lessons are the hardest lessons. And to see what you've learned going through that experience is is really, really neat.

SPEAKER_04

All right, I'm gonna hit you with one more. Give me a character from the Foreverlone history, a person. Whoa. Just a name, a funny person, just something, and and why that character or person is memorable.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'll throw this one out there, and if it's not a good fit, we can take it out.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, we can we we have the ability to back it up.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but Joe Leedy.

SPEAKER_04

I knew that's what I was gonna say. I knew that's where we were going. Joe Lee. Love you, Joe.

SPEAKER_02

He was great. Um, but I because I had a desire to work in production, I worked alongside Joe for years. Um I shadowed him. Uh actually one of the weeks I was in Dalton, I think he lived in Chattanooga at the time. And so I worked alongside of him for a couple days and saw what he did. Um and I regularly went down and visited him and worked alongside him. And then uh in 2018, when I left NEO doing sales at NEO and came back to the home office, ended up working under him and uh just learning from him. And oh my gosh, every I would keep a tally of the Joe Isms that I would have to do.

SPEAKER_03

I wish we had a list of Joe Isms.

SPEAKER_04

If we would have like written them down and recorded them. It's Joe Joe had uh a phrase or a saying, or uh you know, uh in a sense, an axiom maybe for anything that happened, Joe. And we called him Joe Isms. He had something he would a clever quip he would come back with.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so he just he cracked. I've never met anyone like him ever. Because like they're like people you're like, oh, like that mannerism reminds me of, but he was just such a a curated human being with hilarious facial expressions and inflection in his voice, and the Joisms were just great.

SPEAKER_04

Joe is one of one, and he is looking at the we talk about people of impact in the history of Foreverline. He's one of the most impactful um people that that in in the trajectory of our company he was there in the very beginning.

SPEAKER_03

The very first Foreverlone employee. Josh Goker would argue with that. Josh worked for Foreverline Southwest or or Astronauts. We talked about this. Foreverline Inc.

SPEAKER_04

Joe was he was incredibly impactful in the development of this company, the direction we took, and just uh in and he he was I I don't think there's anybody that worked with or met Joe that doesn't come away saying that was a memorable character, and he did great things for us. So, Joe, thank you um for being out there. Hopefully, you you somehow you hear this or get get to hear this. All right. Any closing thoughts, comment, open mic for a minute or two? Anything you want to say? And you don't have to, but anything you want to throw out there, or you're like, man, this is my chance to say this or talk about this.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think so. I can't. I feel like I talked a lot already.

SPEAKER_03

So you've shared a good bit. Well, thank you for uh being with us today. Thank you for sharing and uh some of the fun stories and some of the the sharing the difficult times too. And um just want to thank you for what you bring to the family and what you bring to forever one. Yeah, you're you're uh very thankful.

SPEAKER_04

I'm gonna throw a curveball out there as we're closing out. Tell me about America. 250, the semi-quincentennial is is right around the corner.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Closing thoughts, America. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh man. Uh even with some of the craziness that is going on, I am eternally grateful that I get to live here. Um, just first and foremost, uh so thankful that this is where we get to raise our family and where we get to do life. Um, but man, we are gonna party on the 4th of July.

SPEAKER_03

Get the fireworks out. Party like it's 1976. Yeah. Or maybe 1776. 17. I thought I thought you were partying because I was born. No. Or we can do that too.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but yeah, so my my husband is a huge patriot, like I am. Praise the Lord. Um, and come from a very patriotic family. And so we're pumped. We're very excited. 250 is thrown out all the time, left and right. I know I'm not in the office on Fridays, but we're doing the patriotic Friday.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, patriotic Friday.

SPEAKER_02

So it's we're ramping up and we're ready and we're excited, and um, I'm just really looking forward to celebrating with our family. And I think it will be the first one that like AV is super active at, which will be really cool to get to do like sparklers and things with her. So selfishly really excited for that part of it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, go, America.

SPEAKER_04

Happy birthday, America. All right, I think that's a wrap. Caitlin, thanks for being here. Uh, enjoyed hearing from you and uh to our audience. Look, there's a lot of takeaways from this talk, but remember, we're we're sharing stories, we're sharing um thoughts and ideals, and and our hope is to um be people of impact, that you can pull things out of this that are beneficial to you, but also to help you become people of impact. And uh hopefully this this will do that. So have a great week, and uh, you know, God bless the USA.

SPEAKER_00

This is a Fred Carmi reminding you that faith looks up, hope looks ahead, and love looks all around to see whom it can help. Good day.