Impact Without Limits

S5 E16: The Constitution: America's Framework for Freedom

• Dale and Brian Karmie / Adkins Media Co.

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 29:25

Send us Fan Mail

This episode of Impact Without Limits explores one of the most important questions in American history: What is freedom? Brian and Dale discuss the difference between true liberty and unrestricted self-interest, examining how the Founding Fathers sought to create a nation where freedom could flourish within a framework of moral responsibility, order, and self-government.

The conversation also traces the transition from the Articles of Confederation to the U.S. Constitution, highlighting the debates that shaped America's system of checks and balances, federalism, and protected rights. Along the way, they examine the influence of faith, human nature, and divine providence in the founding of the nation, offering a deeper appreciation for the document that has guided America for nearly 250 years.


Episode Highlights: 

  • What does freedom really mean? 
  • From Revolution to Government. 
  • Building the Constitution.
  • A nation governed by principles.


Links Mentioned in Episode/Find More on ForeverLawn:

This show has been produced by Adkins Media Co.


SPEAKER_01

To think that what I'm going to call a fairly simple document, to have the ability to govern a group of people and a nation the way it has for this amount of time just speaks to the brilliance, and again, I'm going to say the providence that went into the writing and developing of this document.

SPEAKER_02

So why would two guys in comfortable jobs move across the country and start a business in an industry development or least development? Could it be successful? We're the young brand. Welcome to the Impact Development Podcast.

SPEAKER_01

How do you define Welcome back, everybody, to the Impact Developments Podcast? This is Dale Carmen sitting here with my brother Brian.

SPEAKER_02

I am honored to be in studio with the free bird himself. I am back. Dale Carmen have seen the uh video.

SPEAKER_01

Uh he is rocking the eagle hat. Oh, yeah. Again, every time I look down, like the little tail flops and wiggles.

SPEAKER_02

If you move too much, the eagle might attack the microphone. So be careful. No, it's pretty solid. We also have a guest in the studio today. We do. We have a studio audience, my wife Angie, who is not on camera.

SPEAKER_01

I wish we had the camera on her. She loves it. She loves the attention.

SPEAKER_02

All right. So we've been talking, we're talking about America 250. We're talking about um the we talked about the Declaration of Independence and we're going through some of the battles of the Revolutionary War. And you know, the question of how do you define freedom and at the same time define a government, right? And we could spend, you want to spend a few minutes just talking about freedom?

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, because so we were we've talked a lot, and I'll promote it again here, whitehouse.gov. Go to the 250th uh celebration section, a series of videos there, go watch them. But when I went out the the the last time I went out to it, a little thing popped up, asked me, did I want to be a follower or whatever? And I'm like, sure. And I clicked it. And so it asked me for my name, uh, my phone number, my email address, and then it just had a question. It was either what is freedom? What does freedom mean, or what does freedom mean to you? Something like that. And it made me pause and think. It's a great question. Like, what is freedom? What does freedom mean to you? Right? What does freedom mean to you uh out there in the audience listening? Pause for a second and think about it. So my first my first reaction was I look, uh Christian man, I went spiritual. It's like um freedom. I I came up first, I came up with one word. To me, it was unencumbered. And I don't know that that's a good word, but that that that's what came to mind. And so spiritually, we are all fallen, we're all right, we we're we're all sinful, make mankind is sinful, so we're all separated from God. So we aren't free, we are burdened by the weight of sin. And Christ died to forgive our sins and take away that burden and set us free. So that's a freedom, right? Son has set you free, you are free indeed. You're free indeed. And we could talk oh my goodness, long time about that. But now let's bring it, okay, out of the spiritual world to just the idea of being free, free as people.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And the first can I go back real quick? Yeah, go. Because liberty is kind of synonymous with freedom, right? I I think those words are pretty, pretty uh similar. And Patrick Henry, give me liberty or give me death. We talked about that. You you pulled up some of that speech. How critical is freedom that you're saying, if I'm not free, I don't even want to live. Right?

SPEAKER_01

Just an amazing thought. Absolutely. But I think a lot of people, if you say, What does freedom mean to you? And the quick answer is freedom means I can do whatever I want. I'm free, right? I can do anything. I don't think that's but not really think that's accurate, right? Right. There are basic moral laws, moral guidelines that you don't violate. Like, uh, okay, if I'm free, does that mean Brian? I can come over and stay at your house, you know, walk into your house and stay there without asking. Can I take your car from you? Can I take your money? Can I um if I just want to have a smash party, can I go over and smash the window out of your car? Right? Freedom doesn't mean you can do anything you want. And so you have to begin to say, okay, well, what does freedom mean? And and I think in the in the the arena of what we're talking about, it is creating a form of a structure which becomes a form of government that allows people to do things and live in a way that most other governments and governances do not, give them freedoms to operate, freedoms to have commerce, freedoms to interact and to move freely from one place to another. But there still have to be some guidelines put in place, right? Some boundaries or guardrails.

SPEAKER_02

We talked about the Declaration of Independence, that men that we have certain unalienable rights, right? Where all men are created equal. Certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness, right? So, but if one way that we started to talk through this, and and I said, Well, as long as the freedoms I'm expressing don't impede on your life or impede on your freedoms or impede on your pursuit of happiness, like that's that's fair, right? That's that's good. So maybe that's the definition. And you challenge that actually, I I think, and made me think, right? Because you said, but there's also, if we go back to it's endowed by a creator, there's a moral code, there's something deeper that you know you can say, well, you could do something. Um, you you talk about like running running around the street naked, right? That technically isn't offending my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness.

SPEAKER_01

But that that's a violating a moral decent.

SPEAKER_02

It's my right. So there's some things there that you need to to bake in.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

And and this, so the idea in all this is setting up where we're trying to the the Constitution, well, first the Articles of Confederation, and then the Constitution are set to define this government. This guy, they're not granting freedoms. The government isn't giving us the freedoms, but it's establishing a framework for that freedom. Because without it, right, and and we we talk just lightly about the difference between the American Revolution and the French Revolution, right? French Revolution, shortly after, right, there's this uh spirit of of liberty that's sweeping over the world after they see what happens in America, this idea that all men are are free and and have freedom by nature and the government can't be set to oppress you. So they they start to overthrow the monarchy in France. The difference is the American revolution and the American search for freedom is couched in Christianity and in morality and that's the foundation. Right. And the French Revolution is not. And this actually becomes a divide um in between Americans, right? There are certain Americans that are like, hey, we need to support the case of freedom everywhere. Um and then there are other Americans that are like, oh, the French are missing it, right? They're they're not the same as us because what they're doing is anarchy. What we're doing is setting up a civilized freedom under a guided morality, under the understanding of there are laws and restrictions that we need for common decency. We're not, and what happens in France is it fails. And instead, they get rid of the monarchy, but they end up with another dictator, Napoleon, right, who steps in and becomes a tyrant himself. Right. And so it's it's incredibly important to understand that freedom isn't just unencumbered, that's part of it, but there's more to it than that.

SPEAKER_01

Right. And and so as we look at at uh the creating of this nation, we declare our separation from England, from Great Britain in 1776. We have the Revolutionary War taking place that ends in 1783, but we don't officially have a country, a true uh collection of the states together as one unified country under a uh guess I just say the constitution, it's a set of laws, but until 1789. 89 is the constitution.

SPEAKER_02

So in between there, you have the Articles of Confederation. So the Second Continental Congress starts in 76, and that's the the Declaration of Independence. But then shortly after that, they they publish this Articles of Confederation. And the idea of this Articles of Confederation is these are all independent states, right? But we need some commonality to hold us together, and so it's this loose confederation, and this loose confederation basically says, and it's it's written in 77, so shortly after the declaration, in 78 and 79, it gets ratified by the states. Um, I think Maryland is the last one to ratify it in '81. But it it basically coordinates three independent states to a common purpose, but giving that confederation no real power to compel anything. So it's kind of like this government or this association by polite request. And it works well enough during the war when there's a common enemy, right? But then after we defeat the British and there's no common enemy, it starts to fall apart almost immediately because everybody starts pursuing their own self-interest and what's holding us together. This government has is this confederation superior to the states? Some states are saying, absolutely not. The state government is superior. Well, if the state's government's superior, then who determines commerce with foreign countries? You have all these different states regulating their own commerce with the foreign, and it and it's it's falling apart, right? So the founding fathers are starting to realize this. And in about this time, you have the federalist papers start to be written. And you you've had some form of some some people in in the uh Continental Congress have been saying we need a stronger government, and others are saying no, we need states. There's a divide. There's this divide. And so the Federalist papers, um, primarily written by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, John Jay, they they write under the pseudonym Publius, and they they publish these papers talking about why they need a strong central government, why we need a federal form of government.

SPEAKER_01

And at the same time, there were a lot of people who were opposed to this idea who were, you know, putting out leaflets or pamphlets or writing articles in newspapers, uh, you know, in the press, and you know, trying to explain why we didn't, right? They they wanted their freedom and they didn't want this federal body overriding the rights of the states.

SPEAKER_02

Understandably, they were afraid of a strong central government because they had just come out of that. They just come out from under a tyranny. But James Madison, another great Virginian, right, is kind of the author of the Constitution, and he drafts this. And then Hamilton, Madison, and John Jay are writing these arguments saying, hey, this Articles of Confederation aren't working. We don't have a federal government, they can't tax, they can't enforce laws. The Constitution will fix this by creating a stronger central body, but it's not going to be a threat to liberty. Like we're going to protect these God-given freedoms.

SPEAKER_01

And there's this public debate. It's a tough sell. It is. Because you also you're saying what what we just came out from underneath, right? You don't want to step back into that. But I don't know that you've seen anything like this in the history of the world. I know. I don't know that you can you can look anywhere and say we're going to be like so-and-so or such and such. So the the people that are opposed to those are saying, we just want our freedom. Let us be, you know, let's operate together as this group of states, but let us be free and independent. And and so there's a real there, there, you know, battle of ideas, battle of words, and and I think the intent is good on both sides, but it's how does this group move forward?

SPEAKER_02

So one of the things that comes out, and and again, Madison and Hamilton and Jay are writing these, Alexander Hamilton writes the most. Um, James Madison had written the the Constitution. He writes one that's Federalist Paper 10, and it's kind of uh it's it's one of the most widely cited, but he talks about the problem of factions. And the problem is if you have citizens and they're each seeking their own common interest, you get factions. And we see this today, right? You get groups of people that are like, I want mine. And so he's like, How do we control this? And and Madison's point is like human nature leads to that, right? Yes, we're created in the image of God, but we're fallen. And because we're fallen, we all seek our self-interest. And so if we're seeking our self-interest, there's no way to eliminate uh factions. If if you remove this desire, this uh um self-interest, you you can't change human nature. So the only way you can do that was tyranny. So then how do you control the effects of this? And so what Madison argues is this idea of a federalist government. And he says that the point is you need a larger republic instead of these smaller groups of people. So if you look into you know Roman history or other places in in history, it was hey, if you get a smaller group of people that are very similar, then they can govern themselves. But when you get too big of a people, they I mean, you look at America today, right? We're divided. There are people that believe very differently than I do that are still Americans. But how what unites us, and and Madison argues that a larger government is better because it's broader, you get diverse opinions, you get healthy dialogue and debate, and out of that, the best ideas win and the best people serve. And and how do you but how do you protect the rights of the individual? So that's the idea of this new document, the constitution. And so the constitution is a really simple document, but it sets up this framework for our freedoms.

SPEAKER_01

It's it's amazing. Well, like again, I'm gonna pause and ask the question uh out there in audio video land. How many of you have read the Constitution? And I'm gonna guess it's a pretty small number. And look, I'll myself, I'm sure I looked at it and read through it in school. I probably read the clip notes version the way I went through school. But we were up last Friday at the uh American Mission Center. Yep.

SPEAKER_02

On the American Policy Roundtable.

SPEAKER_01

And uh they had a little copy of the Constitution sitting there by the front desk when we were walking out. I grabbed a copy of it and I went home and read it. And it's not that complex or heavy of an uh document. I mean, it's got seven and when I seven are when I look at it and I think that has governed this country for 250 years is astounding. And yes, we've had amendments, but even the amendments, if you look at it, they they haven't been that many. They're pretty limited. As they should be. Um but so to think that uh what I'm gonna call a fairly simple document, and I don't know if you read it straight through, maybe it takes 20 minutes to read, something like that. But a fairly simple document, uh to have the ability to govern a group of people in a nation the way it has for this amount of time just speaks to the brilliance, and again, I'm gonna say the providence that went into the the writing and developing of this document. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

The the general structure, so it's it's a document with seven key articles or points, and and then under that it lists those out, but it really establishes a government with checks and balances, and you've got three branches of government, right? Which there's a really funny video that Wade showed me this this uh I'm I'm sidebarring real quick, but there's a uh a sheriff in North Carolina who is being questioned in front of the legislature, and they ask him, you know, what branch of government do you serve under? And he's like, North Carolina or something. And he's like, Well, no, like the three branches. And the guy didn't know the three branches. He's the he's the highest ranking executive in the county. And and so then the the senator's like, well, I didn't expect it to go this direction, but you've got the executive, the legislative, and the judicial, and he describes them and he says, Which one are you? And the guy says, Well, probably number three. I was like, Well, for the record, can you tell me what that is? He says, Did you just so and he goes, No, you're wrong. But it's just amazing. Like, this is uh an elected official, a high ranking, he's the the sheriff, the the you know primary enforcer of the laws, which is the executive branch's function, in this the county, and he doesn't even know the branches of government, but et cetera.

SPEAKER_01

That would have been a good question we could have asked. Maybe we'll do it anyway. Surprise asked in the next episode.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but the the three branches of government and have checks and balances so that they can check each other, and that's kind of the horizontal division of the government. But then federalism is also a federal and a state government that has what was intended to be a limited federal government that has, you know, enumerated powers for, and and we'll get into what those are, the these seven articles that are laid out. But most of the rights, and that's amendment 10 in the Bill of Rights, makes it clear, everything's relegated to the states if it's not clearly defined for the federal government, right? So the idea is this federal government still provides a lot of freedom for states. There's a lot of um, you know, if one state wants to have a set of laws that's different from the other state, that's fine. But when you have things like interstate commerce, when you have things like declaring war, when you have things that are international treaties, that needs to be done as one collective federal government.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and as long as those states' laws don't um go against the federal laws that are in place.

SPEAKER_02

I actually didn't realize that didn't happen until later, though. Marbury versus Madison is where it was established, and I don't I don't remember exactly where when that happened, but it's in the 1800s, that you can declare a state law unconstitutional. That wasn't something that was not actually written in initially. But so just real quick, um, what the seven articles, and I'm just gonna real quick outline what they are, and then we can talk about some of them. And then I want to get into the Bill of Rights because that's the first 10 amendments, and they were all passed together and critically important. But Article One is establishing Congress, and it's a lot of words there, and it it's a very unique form of government because it's this, you know, two-chambered Congress where you have the Senate in the House and it despite it explains the difference between the two and what their powers are. And, you know, I mean, if you don't know, only the House of Rev Representatives can start taxes and financial things, and then it goes to the Senate for approval. Um, but it lists out what they can do, and it also lists out what Congress can't do. So it defines Article One defines the legislative branch of government.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it at a very again, very simple level, just the creation of both the Senate and the House, and that every state has equal representation in the Senate, right? Every state has two senators. Doesn't matter how much population you have, how little population you have, you have two senators. But then the House of Representatives is representative of the size and the population of that state. So the states that have more people have more representatives, states that have fewer have less. Uh, and then that a bill was originated in the House, right? But then it passes the House, it gets sent up to the Senate. Yep. And the Senate has to pass it or ratify it, and then it comes back down to the House. That it's brilliant. It is incredible.

SPEAKER_02

And Madison was a brilliant man, and all these founders, brilliant men. But that's divinely inspired, right? Like that is beyond human.

SPEAKER_01

Again, the the laws and the um creation of the Constitution, the the established government, more than any other document founded on the Bible. And I haven't recently Myself, but um read that the Book of Deuteronomy was the most referenced book in the creation, uh, you know, the works of many of these founding fathers. So um, yeah, divinely inspired uh both from above and from the writings of the you know, the biblical writings.

SPEAKER_02

All right. So you have Article One establishes the legislative branch, article two establishes the executive branch and creates the presidency. And this this was a controversial thing, right? Establishing a single executive serves four terms, and they explain how he's gonna be elected through an electoral college rather than a direct popular vote and the importance of You said four terms, it was four year terms.

SPEAKER_01

Four-year terms.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry. Um But like there were people afraid of this, right? Because this was are we just creating another king? And so they set up some clear powers of what the executive can do and what they can't do, and sets up um the idea of a four-year term. So there's an election, um, and and it it wasn't set that he could only serve two terms, right? That was actually just George Washington making that declaration after his second term saying, I feel this is right, and that set a precedent. Right. But I I mean, this is it's important, right? You've got to have a figurehead. You can't have a country without a primary leader, without a figurehead, right? But what does that look like? They established this executive branch in the presidency. Again, a novel idea, a brilliant idea, and um changing the course of history. And then the third one is the judiciary, which is you know setting up a Supreme Court and then lower federal courts. And um there it is. That was 1803, was Marbury versus Madison that gave the Supreme Court the power to strike down laws as unconstitutional, and then that becomes part of the checks and balances. But that wasn't immediate, that wasn't uh until 1803. But man, what a that three branches of government just incredible balances. So then Article 4 talks about the states and governs relationships between the states, right? And um guarantees every state um a Republican form of government and federal protection against invasion. So it it's again the articles of confederation were very loose and there was nothing truly binding. It was it was um kind of a polite request for them to work together. This is putting it in writing, like no, the the federal government is is um takes precedent over the states, but then the states um also in return get protection that if anything happens to one of the states, the federal government's gonna step in. And it requires all the states to support that. And so you have yeah, you think back, what what are these guys coming out of? They're coming out of that situation where there was a while where Massachusetts is saying, hey, we're getting we're getting hammered by the British, and you have people in some of the other states, South Carolina, Georgia, wherever, saying, Maybe that's your problem, not mine. I don't know that I need to deal with that. And so this is saying, no, we're together. We're together. So Article 5 sets up the amendments, how it can be changed, what's it take? And again, brilliant. This idea of it takes two-thirds votes of both houses to change this, right? And and unfortunately, we're in a place in Ohio right now where we don't have that, and our state constitution can be changed by a simple majority vote. Majority, simple majority, and we had an awful change recently, and it was done by a you know, a political campaign, and you realize the I mean, the foresight that these guys had putting this together is just amazing. So, in 235 years, there have only been 27 amendments, and the first 10, the Bill of Rights, were within the first few years, 1791 uh was ratified.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I want to throw something out there on this, and and that is uh it takes two-thirds of a vote of both houses of Congress, or the convening of a constitutional convention, which is called for by two-thirds of the state legislature. So if if individual states, if two-thirds of the individual states call for a constitutional convention, you can you can pull that convention together and you can make an amendment to the constitution without going through the the uh elected officials.

SPEAKER_02

And that's interesting because the the state legislatures and the state elected officials are different than the federal government elected officials. I mean, we know that because we have elections, but this again is another check and balance of a federal level that says if the state legislatures are feeling this, right?

SPEAKER_01

The states on a two-thirds vote, again, it still requires two-thirds, but they can call uh a constitutional convention.

SPEAKER_02

Um Article 6, supremacy clause, that the federal, the constitution, federal laws, and federal treaties are the supreme law of the land. Um and that all federal state officials must swear an oath to the constitution, um and that no religious test can be required for public office. And and just again simple but straightforward. But but think about that.

SPEAKER_01

All federal and state officials swear an oath to support the constitution. Their oath isn't to a person, it's not to a superior, it's not to a king, it's not even just to their state, it is to this to the constitution.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and last one's just ratification. Nine of 15 states needed to ratify in order for it to take effect. We started the question with how do you define freedom, right? And we talked about that personally America spiritually. America. I mean and and it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. No, but it does mean that we are not ruled just by people, a king, or even just by our elected officials, but that the constitution defines the form of government and it protects rights that are endowed by our creator.

SPEAKER_01

All right, everybody. Uh hope you learned something. I really do. And I hope you got inspired to go out and and read the Constitution, see what it says, and know you know what it is that governs our existence. And uh with that, I hope you have a great week. See you next week.

SPEAKER_00

This is a threat for me reminding you that faith looks up, hope looks ahead, and love looks all around to see whom it can help. Good day.