{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.96,"endTime":5.44,"body":"Welcome everyone to the"},{"startTime":5.44,"endTime":9.08,"body":"latest edition of our Reimagining Mobility"},{"startTime":5.44,"endTime":9.08,"body":"Podcast series."},{"startTime":9.08,"endTime":10.68,"body":"I'm here with Alwin Lutz."},{"startTime":10.68,"endTime":13.72,"body":"We are virtually this time"},{"startTime":10.68,"endTime":13.72,"body":"because Alwin works"},{"startTime":13.72,"endTime":17.52,"body":"in our California Tech Center"},{"startTime":13.72,"endTime":17.52,"body":"just south of L.A.."},{"startTime":18.0,"endTime":20.88,"body":"He's a controls manager there"},{"startTime":18.0,"endTime":20.88,"body":"with lots of experience in battery"},{"startTime":20.88,"endTime":24.36,"body":"development,"},{"startTime":20.88,"endTime":24.36,"body":"BMS development, software and controls."},{"startTime":24.84,"endTime":27.84,"body":"And today"},{"startTime":24.84,"endTime":27.84,"body":"we talk a little bit about air mobility."},{"startTime":28.08,"endTime":32.12,"body":"And Alwin is one of the guys"},{"startTime":28.08,"endTime":32.12,"body":"from our technology team"},{"startTime":32.68,"endTime":35.52,"body":"that worked on a variety"},{"startTime":32.68,"endTime":35.52,"body":"of different batteries, including"},{"startTime":35.52,"endTime":38.36,"body":"the one that just went up"},{"startTime":35.52,"endTime":38.36,"body":"in the air recently."},{"startTime":38.84,"endTime":42.28,"body":"So we want to take this opportunity"},{"startTime":38.84,"endTime":42.28,"body":"to talk about this a little bit. So."},{"startTime":42.96,"endTime":45.44,"body":"Alwin, thanks for joining me today."},{"startTime":45.44,"endTime":48.24,"body":"Maybe just start out"},{"startTime":45.44,"endTime":48.24,"body":"with I'm kind of going the opposite"},{"startTime":48.24,"endTime":51.52,"body":"instead of starting out"},{"startTime":48.24,"endTime":51.52,"body":"with what the commonality dots are."},{"startTime":51.64,"endTime":53.28,"body":"I want to start out with"},{"startTime":53.28,"endTime":56.76,"body":"what are the biggest differences"},{"startTime":53.28,"endTime":56.76,"body":"between when we develop a battery,"},{"startTime":56.76,"endTime":60.16,"body":"both from a maybe mechanical side,"},{"startTime":56.76,"endTime":60.16,"body":"but also from a control side"},{"startTime":60.92,"endTime":64.28,"body":"between something"},{"startTime":60.92,"endTime":64.28,"body":"that goes up into the air and something"},{"startTime":64.28,"endTime":68.16,"body":"that stays on the ground, either on two"},{"startTime":64.28,"endTime":68.16,"body":"wheels, three, four or multiple wheels."},{"startTime":69.88,"endTime":70.4,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":70.4,"endTime":72.6,"body":"Thanks, Stephan, for having me on."},{"startTime":72.96,"endTime":73.96,"body":"Really appreciate it."},{"startTime":73.96,"endTime":78.52,"body":"And being out here in California,"},{"startTime":73.96,"endTime":78.52,"body":"I can see that"},{"startTime":78.52,"endTime":80.16,"body":"you're here having the shades down."},{"startTime":80.16,"endTime":83.04,"body":"And anyway."},{"startTime":83.04,"endTime":85.88,"body":"It's no need to rub it in today."},{"startTime":86.08,"endTime":88.52,"body":"Yeah. No. So. Exactly."},{"startTime":88.52,"endTime":91.8,"body":"So but yeah, it's an interesting question"},{"startTime":91.8,"endTime":96.88,"body":"about the kind of what is the challenge"},{"startTime":91.8,"endTime":96.88,"body":"on the automotive side."},{"startTime":96.88,"endTime":101.04,"body":"And now that we get into the aerospace"},{"startTime":96.88,"endTime":101.04,"body":"side, it's"},{"startTime":102.0,"endTime":104.16,"body":"as simple as that."},{"startTime":104.16,"endTime":106.4,"body":"If you look at automotive,"},{"startTime":104.16,"endTime":106.4,"body":"if you have a problem,"},{"startTime":106.4,"endTime":109.68,"body":"you pull over,"},{"startTime":106.4,"endTime":109.68,"body":"you stop and things get taken care of."},{"startTime":110.28,"endTime":113.16,"body":"If you're in the air,"},{"startTime":110.28,"endTime":113.16,"body":"there is no option to pull over."},{"startTime":113.52,"endTime":117.88,"body":"So you have to constantly"},{"startTime":113.52,"endTime":117.88,"body":"from the beginning, get into a mindset"},{"startTime":117.88,"endTime":122.0,"body":"that more or less failure"},{"startTime":117.88,"endTime":122.0,"body":"is not an option in aerospace."},{"startTime":122.76,"endTime":123.96,"body":"That's kind of the"},{"startTime":125.4,"endTime":127.64,"body":"I think the biggest"},{"startTime":127.76,"endTime":129.84,"body":"item that the entire team here"},{"startTime":130.2,"endTime":133.08,"body":"had when we started into that area."},{"startTime":133.08,"endTime":135.32,"body":"We we work together with our customer."},{"startTime":135.68,"endTime":138.0,"body":"They were in the aerospace area."},{"startTime":138.0,"endTime":142.08,"body":"So we got a good understanding"},{"startTime":138.0,"endTime":142.08,"body":"that they kind of guide us through there"},{"startTime":142.28,"endTime":144.44,"body":"because they were more experienced"},{"startTime":142.28,"endTime":144.44,"body":"in that."},{"startTime":144.44,"endTime":148.92,"body":"But nevertheless,"},{"startTime":144.44,"endTime":148.92,"body":"we said our best team members here"},{"startTime":148.92,"endTime":152.68,"body":"on that project,"},{"startTime":148.92,"endTime":152.68,"body":"on that area to say, okay,"},{"startTime":152.72,"endTime":155.8,"body":"we we have failure is not an option."},{"startTime":158.76,"endTime":159.32,"body":"If you"},{"startTime":159.32,"endTime":160.92,"body":"if you think about it"},{"startTime":160.92,"endTime":165.48,"body":"and I just had recently a conversation"},{"startTime":160.92,"endTime":165.48,"body":"about systems engineering,"},{"startTime":165.48,"endTime":169.12,"body":"how much more important is systems"},{"startTime":165.48,"endTime":169.12,"body":"engineering than when you say just"},{"startTime":169.44,"endTime":172.92,"body":"just one basic"},{"startTime":169.44,"endTime":172.92,"body":"big differences with a vehicle"},{"startTime":173.08,"endTime":177.24,"body":"I can put to pull to the right side"},{"startTime":173.08,"endTime":177.24,"body":"with a plane,"},{"startTime":177.6,"endTime":181.04,"body":"a helicopter,"},{"startTime":177.6,"endTime":181.04,"body":"whatever it might be, I can't."},{"startTime":181.44,"endTime":183.48,"body":"So that's that suddenly makes systems"},{"startTime":181.44,"endTime":183.48,"body":"engineering"},{"startTime":183.48,"endTime":188.44,"body":"even more important, or"},{"startTime":183.48,"endTime":188.44,"body":"is it still more important that the design"},{"startTime":188.44,"endTime":191.52,"body":"of the battery, for"},{"startTime":188.44,"endTime":191.52,"body":"example, is is more critical now,"},{"startTime":192.52,"endTime":193.44,"body":"or is it both of it?"},{"startTime":193.44,"endTime":194.16,"body":"I guess"},{"startTime":194.92,"endTime":197.76,"body":"is this the system engineering aspect"},{"startTime":197.76,"endTime":201.04,"body":"is hugely important"},{"startTime":197.76,"endTime":201.04,"body":"in the aerospace industry for sure,"},{"startTime":202.12,"endTime":206.56,"body":"because you you kind of approach it"},{"startTime":202.12,"endTime":206.56,"body":"from a component level"},{"startTime":206.56,"endTime":209.76,"body":"to make the safety"},{"startTime":209.76,"endTime":213.28,"body":"of flight"},{"startTime":209.76,"endTime":213.28,"body":"critical components of flight worthy."},{"startTime":213.6,"endTime":216.6,"body":"But then that is not really"},{"startTime":213.6,"endTime":216.6,"body":"the whole take it."},{"startTime":216.64,"endTime":219.16,"body":"You have to approach it"},{"startTime":216.64,"endTime":219.16,"body":"from a system perspective."},{"startTime":219.64,"endTime":222.52,"body":"And that's something that"},{"startTime":222.52,"endTime":225.76,"body":"as a supplier or technology partner"},{"startTime":222.52,"endTime":225.76,"body":"in that area,"},{"startTime":226.2,"endTime":228.4,"body":"you can do that alone by yourself."},{"startTime":228.8,"endTime":232.48,"body":"You have to work together"},{"startTime":228.8,"endTime":232.48,"body":"with other systems, subsystems, suppliers,"},{"startTime":232.92,"endTime":237.96,"body":"and more so with the airplane manufacturer"},{"startTime":232.92,"endTime":237.96,"body":"that is really leading the charge"},{"startTime":237.96,"endTime":240.96,"body":"because they have the full system,"},{"startTime":237.96,"endTime":240.96,"body":"all of you, whereas"},{"startTime":240.96,"endTime":244.6,"body":"we have a small sliver"},{"startTime":240.96,"endTime":244.6,"body":"of that entire project."},{"startTime":244.96,"endTime":246.36,"body":"Mm hmm. That kind of"},{"startTime":247.72,"endTime":250.8,"body":"system is definitely"},{"startTime":250.8,"endTime":252.04,"body":"a major part."},{"startTime":252.04,"endTime":255.84,"body":"More so in the aerospace industry"},{"startTime":252.04,"endTime":255.84,"body":"than I can see in the"},{"startTime":256.24,"endTime":258.44,"body":"in the automotive industry."},{"startTime":258.44,"endTime":261.28,"body":"And we got involved"},{"startTime":261.92,"endTime":264.36,"body":"in that also with this project that we had"},{"startTime":265.04,"endTime":270.0,"body":"that we were bringing in our experience"},{"startTime":265.04,"endTime":270.0,"body":"from the automotive systems side,"},{"startTime":270.0,"endTime":274.12,"body":"because we have done"},{"startTime":270.0,"endTime":274.12,"body":"a lot of not just battery packs, but also"},{"startTime":274.48,"endTime":277.92,"body":"prototype vehicles, full vehicle"},{"startTime":274.48,"endTime":277.92,"body":"integration systems"},{"startTime":277.92,"endTime":282.64,"body":"where you have to understand"},{"startTime":277.92,"endTime":282.64,"body":"the vehicle itself."},{"startTime":283.12,"endTime":286.36,"body":"And we brought that knowledge"},{"startTime":283.12,"endTime":286.36,"body":"and that integration, that system"},{"startTime":286.36,"endTime":291.68,"body":"knowledge also to the aerospace industry"},{"startTime":286.36,"endTime":291.68,"body":"with those partners that we work together."},{"startTime":291.96,"endTime":296.12,"body":"So it was quite a it"},{"startTime":291.96,"endTime":296.12,"body":"exciting learning experience, but also a"},{"startTime":296.68,"endTime":301.28,"body":"a good synergy between their experience"},{"startTime":296.68,"endTime":301.28,"body":"and our experience in that area."},{"startTime":301.88,"endTime":302.72,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":302.96,"endTime":306.84,"body":"Is is for you and your team,"},{"startTime":302.96,"endTime":306.84,"body":"maybe for both you and your team."},{"startTime":306.84,"endTime":307.84,"body":"Both. Is it"},{"startTime":308.92,"endTime":310.6,"body":"is it more exciting?"},{"startTime":310.6,"endTime":311.88,"body":"Is it more."},{"startTime":311.88,"endTime":315.36,"body":"Well, I'm a little scared to put something"},{"startTime":311.88,"endTime":315.36,"body":"together that goes up in the air."},{"startTime":315.36,"endTime":316.0,"body":"Or is it is"},{"startTime":316.0,"endTime":319.92,"body":"it really at the end of the day, really,"},{"startTime":316.0,"endTime":319.92,"body":"it comes down to a different challenge."},{"startTime":319.92,"endTime":321.84,"body":"But, you know, let's go to it, right?"},{"startTime":321.84,"endTime":325.08,"body":"I mean, specifically"},{"startTime":321.84,"endTime":325.08,"body":"at CTC, over the years, we've come up"},{"startTime":325.08,"endTime":329.48,"body":"with very cool technologies"},{"startTime":325.08,"endTime":329.48,"body":"and really some cutting edge Never there"},{"startTime":330.2,"endTime":333.56,"body":"before done type of products,"},{"startTime":333.56,"endTime":337.44,"body":"integration, vehicle solutions,"},{"startTime":333.56,"endTime":337.44,"body":"whatever it might be."},{"startTime":337.72,"endTime":340.88,"body":"But this is what that this was"},{"startTime":337.72,"endTime":340.88,"body":"definitely a step forward again into the"},{"startTime":341.4,"endTime":342.36,"body":"air mobility."},{"startTime":342.36,"endTime":344.64,"body":"Right. Is how was that from you guys?"},{"startTime":344.64,"endTime":345.92,"body":"How was the team excited?"},{"startTime":345.92,"endTime":349.32,"body":"How were you excited or how you were like,"},{"startTime":345.92,"endTime":349.32,"body":"I'm not so sure about this."},{"startTime":349.52,"endTime":353.08,"body":"How did you guys take it?"},{"startTime":353.08,"endTime":355.84,"body":"We were quite excited"},{"startTime":353.08,"endTime":355.84,"body":"because it's a challenge."},{"startTime":356.0,"endTime":358.04,"body":"One of the things that we like here is a"},{"startTime":359.2,"endTime":361.88,"body":"challenge, something new and"},{"startTime":363.16,"endTime":364.92,"body":"in the beginning, you"},{"startTime":364.92,"endTime":368.56,"body":"you start working on"},{"startTime":364.92,"endTime":368.56,"body":"on the mechanization, on"},{"startTime":368.88,"endTime":372.96,"body":"designing the battery pack based on what"},{"startTime":368.88,"endTime":372.96,"body":"the customer thinks, what they want."},{"startTime":373.28,"endTime":376.44,"body":"We brought in our new technology"},{"startTime":373.28,"endTime":376.44,"body":"with the cassette technology,"},{"startTime":376.8,"endTime":379.04,"body":"which was new for them to understand."},{"startTime":379.36,"endTime":383.6,"body":"So there was an educational transfer"},{"startTime":379.36,"endTime":383.6,"body":"of what we bring"},{"startTime":383.6,"endTime":387.72,"body":"to the table versus what they expect,"},{"startTime":383.6,"endTime":387.72,"body":"which was very beneficial."},{"startTime":388.28,"endTime":393.12,"body":"But then as you progress"},{"startTime":388.28,"endTime":393.12,"body":"in the development and then the day to day"},{"startTime":393.12,"endTime":396.56,"body":"activity, the one thing that we definitely"},{"startTime":396.56,"endTime":398.88,"body":"learned and appreciated very much"},{"startTime":400.04,"endTime":402.84,"body":"is the the amount of detail"},{"startTime":402.84,"endTime":405.76,"body":"and the amount of documentation,"},{"startTime":402.84,"endTime":405.76,"body":"the amount of"},{"startTime":408.6,"endTime":411.96,"body":"collecting of data and organizing it."},{"startTime":412.16,"endTime":415.2,"body":"So that is verifiable,"},{"startTime":412.16,"endTime":415.2,"body":"that is perceptible,"},{"startTime":415.24,"endTime":417.84,"body":"because eventually"},{"startTime":415.24,"endTime":417.84,"body":"you have to have all the data behind"},{"startTime":417.84,"endTime":420.72,"body":"all of your development"},{"startTime":417.84,"endTime":420.72,"body":"and testing to get to that"},{"startTime":421.64,"endTime":424.32,"body":"safety of flight airworthiness state."},{"startTime":424.92,"endTime":427.48,"body":"And that even for a prototype"},{"startTime":427.48,"endTime":431.84,"body":"in the automotive prototype world,"},{"startTime":427.48,"endTime":431.84,"body":"it is not that critical that you have"},{"startTime":431.84,"endTime":436.84,"body":"all of these detailed reports, all of"},{"startTime":431.84,"endTime":436.84,"body":"these detailed assessments of the failure."},{"startTime":436.84,"endTime":439.16,"body":"When we have a failure in during testing,"},{"startTime":440.24,"endTime":440.64,"body":"we need to"},{"startTime":440.64,"endTime":445.32,"body":"investigate and document"},{"startTime":440.64,"endTime":445.32,"body":"and then later on document"},{"startTime":445.32,"endTime":449.32,"body":"also the change that came out of it"},{"startTime":445.32,"endTime":449.32,"body":"and how it got implemented."},{"startTime":449.32,"endTime":450.64,"body":"Not into that one piece"},{"startTime":450.64,"endTime":454.84,"body":"because we have hundreds of pieces that"},{"startTime":450.64,"endTime":454.84,"body":"get into the airplane for each individual."},{"startTime":454.84,"endTime":460.64,"body":"So documentation and tracking,"},{"startTime":454.84,"endTime":460.64,"body":"that was a huge learning for us as well."},{"startTime":461.12,"endTime":462.48,"body":"Okay. Okay."},{"startTime":462.48,"endTime":466.44,"body":"How critical I know today in when we do"},{"startTime":462.48,"endTime":466.44,"body":"passenger vehicles or heavy duty trucks"},{"startTime":466.44,"endTime":468.68,"body":"or anything"},{"startTime":466.44,"endTime":468.68,"body":"that's on the ground, let's say"},{"startTime":468.68,"endTime":471.56,"body":"simulation is becoming more"},{"startTime":468.68,"endTime":471.56,"body":"and more of a criticality."},{"startTime":471.56,"endTime":476.52,"body":"I know, for example, just a lonely,"},{"startTime":471.56,"endTime":476.52,"body":"let's call a usage or driving cycle."},{"startTime":476.52,"endTime":476.72,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":476.72,"endTime":479.92,"body":"Or in this case, flying cycle"},{"startTime":476.72,"endTime":479.92,"body":"is certainly considerably different"},{"startTime":479.92,"endTime":482.4,"body":"from a from a vehicle,"},{"startTime":479.92,"endTime":482.4,"body":"even if it's a race car."},{"startTime":483.84,"endTime":484.92,"body":"Tell me a little about that."},{"startTime":484.92,"endTime":489.56,"body":"How how important was simulation and how"},{"startTime":484.92,"endTime":489.56,"body":"much did you guys make use of simulation?"},{"startTime":491.04,"endTime":493.88,"body":"Yeah, we we did have the"},{"startTime":495.36,"endTime":497.4,"body":"challenge to do a lot of simulation"},{"startTime":497.4,"endTime":501.4,"body":"because one of the items is"},{"startTime":497.4,"endTime":501.4,"body":"this is new technology."},{"startTime":501.4,"endTime":503.64,"body":"And one of the critical parts is that"},{"startTime":504.76,"endTime":506.96,"body":"there are kind of"},{"startTime":504.76,"endTime":506.96,"body":"two parts of the simulation."},{"startTime":506.96,"endTime":511.24,"body":"One is the like you mentioned,"},{"startTime":506.96,"endTime":511.24,"body":"the uses profiled the drive cycle,"},{"startTime":511.24,"endTime":514.76,"body":"so to speak, the flight profile."},{"startTime":514.76,"endTime":520.08,"body":"That was something we had to learn"},{"startTime":514.76,"endTime":520.08,"body":"and understand and then actually get"},{"startTime":520.08,"endTime":525.0,"body":"into our upfront simulation activities"},{"startTime":520.08,"endTime":525.0,"body":"to see how doesn't respond thermally."},{"startTime":525.32,"endTime":527.88,"body":"How does the entire system respond"},{"startTime":528.16,"endTime":533.84,"body":"in terms of accuracy, of state of charge"},{"startTime":528.16,"endTime":533.84,"body":"or any of that which is different"},{"startTime":533.84,"endTime":536.88,"body":"from a vehicle where"},{"startTime":536.88,"endTime":540.32,"body":"you have a certain amount of peak power"},{"startTime":536.88,"endTime":540.32,"body":"and continuous power."},{"startTime":540.64,"endTime":544.4,"body":"So you're used on a vehicle that you do"},{"startTime":540.64,"endTime":544.4,"body":"your wide open throttle to get your 0"},{"startTime":544.4,"endTime":547.76,"body":"to 60 or 60 or 100,"},{"startTime":544.4,"endTime":547.76,"body":"and then you come back down"},{"startTime":547.76,"endTime":550.96,"body":"to low power in the aerospace."},{"startTime":550.96,"endTime":556.16,"body":"It was really a continuous hyper power,"},{"startTime":550.96,"endTime":556.16,"body":"medium power, our high power."},{"startTime":556.44,"endTime":561.32,"body":"So a lot of simulation activities"},{"startTime":556.44,"endTime":561.32,"body":"before we actually built"},{"startTime":561.32,"endTime":565.56,"body":"anything was done"},{"startTime":561.32,"endTime":565.56,"body":"in the thermal side of things."},{"startTime":566.2,"endTime":569.88,"body":"And then the second aspect"},{"startTime":566.2,"endTime":569.88,"body":"of the simulation that we had to do"},{"startTime":569.88,"endTime":573.12,"body":"here is what I mentioned earlier about"},{"startTime":573.6,"endTime":576.16,"body":"you can just pull over"},{"startTime":573.6,"endTime":576.16,"body":"to the side of the road."},{"startTime":576.84,"endTime":580.48,"body":"The major requirement for"},{"startTime":576.84,"endTime":580.48,"body":"aerospace here is really what"},{"startTime":581.64,"endTime":583.76,"body":"inherently is"},{"startTime":583.76,"endTime":586.8,"body":"an issue with any lithium ion battery,"},{"startTime":583.76,"endTime":586.8,"body":"which is thermal runaway."},{"startTime":588.44,"endTime":594.36,"body":"So we did have our cassette design"},{"startTime":588.44,"endTime":594.36,"body":"optimize from the get"},{"startTime":594.36,"endTime":598.08,"body":"go to really look at a single cell"},{"startTime":598.08,"endTime":600.56,"body":"or dual cell"},{"startTime":601.36,"endTime":604.28,"body":"runaway of the cell without propagation."},{"startTime":604.28,"endTime":609.36,"body":"Now what does that mean"},{"startTime":604.28,"endTime":609.36,"body":"in normal automotive production"},{"startTime":610.04,"endTime":614.36,"body":"designs,"},{"startTime":610.04,"endTime":614.36,"body":"you are preventing thermal runaway"},{"startTime":614.36,"endTime":617.16,"body":"with any type of method"},{"startTime":614.36,"endTime":617.16,"body":"in the pack design."},{"startTime":617.6,"endTime":621.32,"body":"But nevertheless,"},{"startTime":617.6,"endTime":621.32,"body":"you cannot oftentimes fully prevent it."},{"startTime":621.68,"endTime":625.04,"body":"And the design objective"},{"startTime":621.68,"endTime":625.04,"body":"is really to prolong"},{"startTime":625.8,"endTime":629.24,"body":"that event so that you have enough time."},{"startTime":629.24,"endTime":633.48,"body":"We're talking"},{"startTime":629.24,"endTime":633.48,"body":"minutes, tens of minutes for the operator,"},{"startTime":633.48,"endTime":636.96,"body":"the driver, to get alerted"},{"startTime":633.48,"endTime":636.96,"body":"and move out of there"},{"startTime":638.28,"endTime":640.44,"body":"for this application. We couldn't do that."},{"startTime":640.44,"endTime":641.48,"body":"We have to stop it."},{"startTime":641.48,"endTime":644.04,"body":"We basically have to stop the propagation."},{"startTime":644.04,"endTime":646.8,"body":"And in order to come up with the correct"},{"startTime":647.8,"endTime":648.56,"body":"design"},{"startTime":648.56,"endTime":651.64,"body":"on the mechanical system,"},{"startTime":648.56,"endTime":651.64,"body":"we did a lot of simulation."},{"startTime":651.64,"endTime":656.4,"body":"We did individual cell testing,"},{"startTime":651.64,"endTime":656.4,"body":"took the learnings or the data,"},{"startTime":656.4,"endTime":659.04,"body":"the real data of the energy,"},{"startTime":659.4,"endTime":664.16,"body":"the release of the energy over time,"},{"startTime":659.4,"endTime":664.16,"body":"and how it then spreads"},{"startTime":664.28,"endTime":668.52,"body":"within the cassette and spreads"},{"startTime":664.28,"endTime":668.52,"body":"within the entire system to then"},{"startTime":668.52,"endTime":672.24,"body":"do the simulation"},{"startTime":668.52,"endTime":672.24,"body":"and optimize and change materials."},{"startTime":672.6,"endTime":674.28,"body":"We change"},{"startTime":674.44,"endTime":676.88,"body":"the construction of the units to come"},{"startTime":676.88,"endTime":679.56,"body":"to a simulation result"},{"startTime":679.92,"endTime":684.04,"body":"that gives us confidence"},{"startTime":679.92,"endTime":684.04,"body":"that, yes, this will not spread."},{"startTime":684.36,"endTime":687.24,"body":"It will have two cells"},{"startTime":687.24,"endTime":689.64,"body":"or three cells that are unusable."},{"startTime":690.24,"endTime":692.64,"body":"An entire cassette is unusable, but"},{"startTime":692.64,"endTime":696.56,"body":"the entire battery system"},{"startTime":692.64,"endTime":696.56,"body":"is still fully functional"},{"startTime":696.56,"endTime":699.64,"body":"with a minor degradation"},{"startTime":696.56,"endTime":699.64,"body":"and the airplane can still fly."},{"startTime":700.12,"endTime":701.96,"body":"Okay, that was that."},{"startTime":701.96,"endTime":705.48,"body":"And that followed up"},{"startTime":701.96,"endTime":705.48,"body":"then afterwards with physical testing"},{"startTime":706.08,"endTime":709.28,"body":"to actually validate"},{"startTime":706.08,"endTime":709.28,"body":"that all the simulation activities"},{"startTime":709.64,"endTime":712.6,"body":"are translating into"},{"startTime":709.64,"endTime":712.6,"body":"real test and then results."},{"startTime":714.48,"endTime":715.8,"body":"So that kind of brings me to a top topic."},{"startTime":715.8,"endTime":720.36,"body":"Wanted to get to what"},{"startTime":715.8,"endTime":720.36,"body":"what does it take for, let's say, battery"},{"startTime":720.36,"endTime":723.12,"body":"and battery systems"},{"startTime":720.36,"endTime":723.12,"body":"to be even more applicable"},{"startTime":723.64,"endTime":726.12,"body":"to air space, right."},{"startTime":726.12,"endTime":728.76,"body":"Or again, mobility in the air."},{"startTime":728.76,"endTime":731.84,"body":"So to speed planes,"},{"startTime":728.76,"endTime":731.84,"body":"maybe even helicopters, who knows?"},{"startTime":732.12,"endTime":734.56,"body":"Drones certainly as well is a the,"},{"startTime":734.88,"endTime":739.12,"body":"is it power to weight"},{"startTime":734.88,"endTime":739.12,"body":"ratio to energy to weight ratio?"},{"startTime":739.12,"endTime":742.56,"body":"Is it the ability to have cells,"},{"startTime":739.12,"endTime":742.56,"body":"maybe solid state"},{"startTime":742.56,"endTime":743.96,"body":"that are less"},{"startTime":745.56,"endTime":746.4,"body":"swelling,"},{"startTime":746.4,"endTime":749.88,"body":"less susceptible to thermal runaway?"},{"startTime":749.88,"endTime":753.24,"body":"Give me a little bit of insight"},{"startTime":749.88,"endTime":753.24,"body":"on that one."},{"startTime":753.32,"endTime":755.56,"body":"Yeah, it's for a"},{"startTime":755.96,"endTime":759.68,"body":"for an airplane, more"},{"startTime":755.96,"endTime":759.68,"body":"so than for car weight is everything."},{"startTime":760.92,"endTime":764.28,"body":"You have to have a energy storage system"},{"startTime":764.68,"endTime":767.76,"body":"that is as much reduced in weight"},{"startTime":767.88,"endTime":771.84,"body":"because whatever you have in weight,"},{"startTime":767.88,"endTime":771.84,"body":"you cannot carry as cargo."},{"startTime":772.2,"endTime":776.08,"body":"And you want to have an airplane"},{"startTime":772.2,"endTime":776.08,"body":"that flies 500 or 400 miles"},{"startTime":776.36,"endTime":777.84,"body":"and can carry one or two people."},{"startTime":778.84,"endTime":779.64,"body":"That's useless."},{"startTime":779.64,"endTime":784.2,"body":"So weight is the major criteria"},{"startTime":779.64,"endTime":784.2,"body":"in order to get really that ratio between"},{"startTime":784.44,"endTime":789.8,"body":"how much energy can you store for a given"},{"startTime":784.44,"endTime":789.8,"body":"amount of weight that you have in there?"},{"startTime":791.52,"endTime":793.56,"body":"That's the main overlaying"},{"startTime":794.08,"endTime":796.8,"body":"objective of of getting there."},{"startTime":796.8,"endTime":799.8,"body":"The second area, of course, is the safety"},{"startTime":796.8,"endTime":799.8,"body":"and the reliability,"},{"startTime":800.32,"endTime":803.4,"body":"and that is"},{"startTime":803.4,"endTime":806.6,"body":"somewhat"},{"startTime":803.4,"endTime":806.6,"body":"related to the type of cell technology,"},{"startTime":806.6,"endTime":811.92,"body":"as you mentioned, that you can use at this"},{"startTime":806.6,"endTime":811.92,"body":"given time with current cell technology,"},{"startTime":811.92,"endTime":815.16,"body":"you have the safety"},{"startTime":811.92,"endTime":815.16,"body":"aspect of thermal runaway"},{"startTime":816.28,"endTime":818.68,"body":"and you have to protect for that."},{"startTime":818.68,"endTime":823.12,"body":"That means you have to do construction"},{"startTime":818.68,"endTime":823.12,"body":"of your battery design"},{"startTime":823.48,"endTime":826.84,"body":"to prevent it and not to prevent it,"},{"startTime":823.48,"endTime":826.84,"body":"but to mitigate it to the point"},{"startTime":826.84,"endTime":829.28,"body":"where you can are arrested"},{"startTime":826.84,"endTime":829.28,"body":"and that that wait."},{"startTime":830.0,"endTime":834.04,"body":"So long term, I can see that"},{"startTime":834.52,"endTime":838.84,"body":"most predominantly"},{"startTime":834.52,"endTime":838.84,"body":"will be to get the energy on a on"},{"startTime":838.92,"endTime":844.44,"body":"on the cell level up"},{"startTime":838.92,"endTime":844.44,"body":"and to reduce the potential of safety"},{"startTime":844.44,"endTime":848.0,"body":"because that automatically will reduce"},{"startTime":844.44,"endTime":848.0,"body":"everything that's around the battery"},{"startTime":848.2,"endTime":849.32,"body":"to minimize the weight."},{"startTime":851.24,"endTime":853.2,"body":"You talked a lot about safety."},{"startTime":853.2,"endTime":855.0,"body":"Let's maybe the last question here."},{"startTime":855.0,"endTime":858.0,"body":"How much different are"},{"startTime":858.0,"endTime":860.76,"body":"you approaching the software"},{"startTime":861.16,"endTime":865.16,"body":"as opposed for for air mobility"},{"startTime":861.16,"endTime":865.16,"body":"as opposed to for ground mobility?"},{"startTime":865.52,"endTime":868.16,"body":"Is there a difference"},{"startTime":865.52,"endTime":868.16,"body":"or are you real using the same thing or"},{"startTime":868.16,"endTime":871.24,"body":"are you putting additional"},{"startTime":868.16,"endTime":871.24,"body":"safety mechanisms in?"},{"startTime":871.36,"endTime":873.04,"body":"We have more redundancy."},{"startTime":873.04,"endTime":875.16,"body":"Tell me a little bit"},{"startTime":873.04,"endTime":875.16,"body":"specifically about the software."},{"startTime":877.08,"endTime":880.32,"body":"Yeah, the the software development for"},{"startTime":880.68,"endTime":884.16,"body":"the aerospace is is"},{"startTime":884.28,"endTime":887.68,"body":"very well, let's put it that way."},{"startTime":887.68,"endTime":890.96,"body":"It's it's very regulated in a way,"},{"startTime":887.68,"endTime":890.96,"body":"and it's"},{"startTime":890.96,"endTime":895.16,"body":"very strict to get the different"},{"startTime":895.16,"endTime":899.2,"body":"disciplines organized, similar like"},{"startTime":895.16,"endTime":899.2,"body":"in the automotive production development."},{"startTime":899.24,"endTime":903.6,"body":"You have you have your recycler,"},{"startTime":899.24,"endTime":903.6,"body":"you have your requirements definition."},{"startTime":903.6,"endTime":908.12,"body":"You have to have your test cases"},{"startTime":903.6,"endTime":908.12,"body":"and everything."},{"startTime":908.4,"endTime":909.88,"body":"But more so on, on the"},{"startTime":911.08,"endTime":913.56,"body":"aerospace area where you have"},{"startTime":914.0,"endTime":917.52,"body":"all of the automotive requirements"},{"startTime":914.0,"endTime":917.52,"body":"and then the strict"},{"startTime":918.64,"endTime":923.04,"body":"testing and also the documentation"},{"startTime":923.36,"endTime":927.36,"body":"and control of the software"},{"startTime":923.36,"endTime":927.36,"body":"for modification."},{"startTime":927.64,"endTime":931.32,"body":"That has to be extremely strict"},{"startTime":927.64,"endTime":931.32,"body":"to any any code change,"},{"startTime":931.32,"endTime":936.04,"body":"no matter how small it is, cannot be"},{"startTime":931.32,"endTime":936.04,"body":"just accomplished through internal."},{"startTime":936.04,"endTime":941.88,"body":"It also needs to be then approved by"},{"startTime":936.04,"endTime":941.88,"body":"the FAA later on when it comes to safety."},{"startTime":941.88,"endTime":947.2,"body":"So there there's another it's"},{"startTime":941.88,"endTime":947.2,"body":"not a kind of self certification in a way."},{"startTime":947.48,"endTime":952.64,"body":"You really have to bring everything"},{"startTime":947.48,"endTime":952.64,"body":"to a agency"},{"startTime":952.64,"endTime":955.56,"body":"that will"},{"startTime":952.64,"endTime":955.56,"body":"then eventually approve your design"},{"startTime":955.88,"endTime":958.96,"body":"and approve your software"},{"startTime":955.88,"endTime":958.96,"body":"and also the modifications thereafter."},{"startTime":959.48,"endTime":963.4,"body":"So from that perspective,"},{"startTime":959.48,"endTime":963.4,"body":"the actual software development,"},{"startTime":963.4,"endTime":968.72,"body":"do you develop and see MATLAB,"},{"startTime":963.4,"endTime":968.72,"body":"Simulink model based is very similar,"},{"startTime":969.12,"endTime":973.6,"body":"but the entire process"},{"startTime":969.12,"endTime":973.6,"body":"and the quality assurance"},{"startTime":974.64,"endTime":976.88,"body":"around it is quite intensive."},{"startTime":978.28,"endTime":981.56,"body":"Okay, Alwin, thank you very much"},{"startTime":982.0,"endTime":984.48,"body":"and thanks for tuning in"},{"startTime":982.0,"endTime":984.48,"body":"for our latest podcast."},{"startTime":984.72,"endTime":985.84,"body":"Again, thanks, Alan."},{"startTime":985.84,"endTime":989.16,"body":"Lots for the insight here on our air"},{"startTime":985.84,"endTime":989.16,"body":"mobility adventures"},{"startTime":989.68,"endTime":992.52,"body":"and we're now getting more"},{"startTime":989.68,"endTime":992.52,"body":"and more into it with our technologies"},{"startTime":992.52,"endTime":993.92,"body":"and what you mentioned with what"},{"startTime":993.92,"endTime":998.16,"body":"our battery cassette technology"},{"startTime":993.92,"endTime":998.16,"body":"was originally envisioned for."},{"startTime":998.16,"endTime":1000.2,"body":"So this is the first step."},{"startTime":1000.2,"endTime":1003.24,"body":"And the next step is hopefully"},{"startTime":1000.2,"endTime":1003.24,"body":"we're we're taking this to space then."},{"startTime":1004.48,"endTime":1006.76,"body":"Thank you Awin, for your again"},{"startTime":1007.64,"endTime":1010.04,"body":"Thanks for listening to reimagine"},{"startTime":1007.64,"endTime":1010.04,"body":"mobility Podcast."},{"startTime":1010.04,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"If you like this episode,"},{"startTime":1010.04,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"please subscribe and tell a friend."}]}