{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.303,"endTime":4.504,"body":"Hello, everyone, and welcome"},{"startTime":4.504,"endTime":7.774,"body":"to the latest podcast edition"},{"startTime":4.504,"endTime":7.774,"body":"of Reimagining Mobility."},{"startTime":8.408,"endTime":10.51,"body":"I'm here with Aaron Pulskamp."},{"startTime":10.51,"endTime":13.98,"body":"Aaron, you work for us"},{"startTime":10.51,"endTime":13.98,"body":"in Fuel Cell Canada, where we developed"},{"startTime":13.98,"endTime":15.682,"body":"fuel cell stacks."},{"startTime":15.682,"endTime":17.851,"body":"So maybe to start out with,"},{"startTime":17.851,"endTime":19.953,"body":"tell me a little bit,"},{"startTime":17.851,"endTime":19.953,"body":"what have you been doing as of late?"},{"startTime":20.887,"endTime":21.788,"body":"Yeah, happy to."},{"startTime":21.788,"endTime":24.057,"body":"Thanks for having me, Stephan."},{"startTime":24.057,"endTime":24.324,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":24.324,"endTime":27.827,"body":"So we're out here in Canada,"},{"startTime":24.324,"endTime":27.827,"body":"in the Vancouver area,"},{"startTime":28.161,"endTime":30.73,"body":"kind of the heart of where"},{"startTime":28.161,"endTime":30.73,"body":"a lot of fuel cell development"},{"startTime":30.997,"endTime":33.433,"body":"goes down."},{"startTime":34.0,"endTime":38.772,"body":"We are a group of about 45 people, and"},{"startTime":39.706,"endTime":43.543,"body":"I get the honor of being the engineering"},{"startTime":39.706,"endTime":43.543,"body":"and prototyping manager out here."},{"startTime":44.544,"endTime":46.579,"body":"So our job is to"},{"startTime":48.148,"endTime":50.75,"body":"take customer considered customer requests"},{"startTime":51.618,"endTime":55.555,"body":"for engineering of custom"},{"startTime":51.618,"endTime":55.555,"body":"fuel cell stacks,"},{"startTime":57.49,"endTime":60.693,"body":"hopefully turn those into a real life"},{"startTime":57.49,"endTime":60.693,"body":"fuel cell"},{"startTime":60.693,"endTime":63.897,"body":"stack"},{"startTime":60.693,"endTime":63.897,"body":"that we can then test in our testing lab."},{"startTime":64.864,"endTime":67.367,"body":"We also do a significant amount"},{"startTime":64.864,"endTime":67.367,"body":"of our own internal"},{"startTime":68.301,"endTime":73.306,"body":"fuel cell design"},{"startTime":68.301,"endTime":73.306,"body":"and prototyping for our own purposes,"},{"startTime":73.306,"endTime":75.909,"body":"and we're doing that with,"},{"startTime":73.306,"endTime":75.909,"body":"at least on my team,"},{"startTime":76.776,"endTime":78.778,"body":"about 18"},{"startTime":79.145,"endTime":81.481,"body":"highly experienced engineers"},{"startTime":83.116,"endTime":86.553,"body":"that kind of cover all areas"},{"startTime":83.116,"endTime":86.553,"body":"of the fuel cell component development."},{"startTime":87.42,"endTime":92.725,"body":"I have guys that that specialize"},{"startTime":87.42,"endTime":92.725,"body":"in every component, including plates"},{"startTime":92.725,"endTime":96.696,"body":"and meters, but we also have people"},{"startTime":92.725,"endTime":96.696,"body":"who do failure analysis,"},{"startTime":97.063,"endTime":99.632,"body":"CAD design, quality"},{"startTime":100.767,"endTime":102.068,"body":"prototyping."},{"startTime":102.068,"endTime":105.305,"body":"All the areas that you would think"},{"startTime":102.068,"endTime":105.305,"body":"you would need to execute"},{"startTime":105.305,"endTime":108.808,"body":"of a fuel cell stack design."},{"startTime":108.808,"endTime":109.142,"body":"Perfect."},{"startTime":109.142,"endTime":112.378,"body":"So when we go right away to the fuel cell"},{"startTime":109.142,"endTime":112.378,"body":"stack design and you alluded a little bit"},{"startTime":112.378,"endTime":115.982,"body":"to all the different components,"},{"startTime":112.378,"endTime":115.982,"body":"two membranes,"},{"startTime":117.584,"endTime":119.519,"body":"again, lots of different components."},{"startTime":119.519,"endTime":123.59,"body":"And I'm certainly not an expert in"},{"startTime":119.519,"endTime":123.59,"body":"but if you had to explain"},{"startTime":123.59,"endTime":124.724,"body":"what are the two or three"},{"startTime":124.724,"endTime":128.761,"body":"most critical components"},{"startTime":124.724,"endTime":128.761,"body":"in a fuel cell stack, what would that be?"},{"startTime":129.963,"endTime":131.264,"body":"Yeah. So"},{"startTime":131.764,"endTime":135.168,"body":"I think we would start with the MEA,"},{"startTime":131.764,"endTime":135.168,"body":"the membrane electrode assembly."},{"startTime":136.136,"endTime":139.472,"body":"It is the component that carries"},{"startTime":136.136,"endTime":139.472,"body":"the catalyst"},{"startTime":140.373,"endTime":142.408,"body":"that makes the electrochemical reaction"},{"startTime":142.408,"endTime":145.245,"body":"that then produces electricity"},{"startTime":142.408,"endTime":145.245,"body":"for the fuel cell to work."},{"startTime":146.312,"endTime":149.849,"body":"So that's probably the one key component"},{"startTime":149.849,"endTime":152.519,"body":"as far as what makes a PEM"},{"startTime":149.849,"endTime":152.519,"body":"fuel cell unique."},{"startTime":153.52,"endTime":157.19,"body":"But in order for that to work,"},{"startTime":153.52,"endTime":157.19,"body":"you have to have fuel cell plates."},{"startTime":157.19,"endTime":159.225,"body":"We call them bipolar plates."},{"startTime":159.225,"endTime":162.061,"body":"Their job are to get the hydrogen"},{"startTime":162.061,"endTime":165.932,"body":"and the oxygen to that catalyst layer"},{"startTime":162.061,"endTime":165.932,"body":"so the reaction can take place."},{"startTime":166.799,"endTime":169.068,"body":"They also carry coolant"},{"startTime":169.502,"endTime":172.205,"body":"because fuel cell"},{"startTime":169.502,"endTime":172.205,"body":"stacks are actively cooled."},{"startTime":172.872,"endTime":175.808,"body":"One of the byproducts"},{"startTime":172.872,"endTime":175.808,"body":"of the reaction is heat."},{"startTime":177.043,"endTime":179.379,"body":"So the the the bipolar plates"},{"startTime":179.546,"endTime":183.349,"body":"separate the MEAs And then as you continue"},{"startTime":183.349,"endTime":186.753,"body":"to stack those up,"},{"startTime":183.349,"endTime":186.753,"body":"you create more and more power."},{"startTime":187.654,"endTime":191.357,"body":"That stack of plates"},{"startTime":187.654,"endTime":191.357,"body":"and MEAs that needs to be held together"},{"startTime":191.357,"endTime":194.46,"body":"with some sort of mechanical"},{"startTime":191.357,"endTime":194.46,"body":"compression system."},{"startTime":195.461,"endTime":197.664,"body":"That way it can stay nice and sealed"},{"startTime":199.132,"endTime":200.934,"body":"and that the contact resistance,"},{"startTime":200.934,"endTime":204.17,"body":"the electrical contact resistance"},{"startTime":200.934,"endTime":204.17,"body":"between the components inside"},{"startTime":204.837,"endTime":207.84,"body":"stays low, giving you the best power"},{"startTime":204.837,"endTime":207.84,"body":"that that you can."},{"startTime":207.874,"endTime":211.344,"body":"So I would say that those are probably"},{"startTime":207.874,"endTime":211.344,"body":"the three most critical parts."},{"startTime":211.711,"endTime":212.612,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":212.679,"endTime":214.948,"body":"So those are the critical parts, I guess."},{"startTime":215.448,"endTime":218.851,"body":"A lot of times the most critical parts"},{"startTime":215.448,"endTime":218.851,"body":"are the most challenging parts, right?"},{"startTime":218.851,"endTime":222.422,"body":"In a battery, for example,"},{"startTime":218.851,"endTime":222.422,"body":"everybody talks about the battery cell."},{"startTime":223.022,"endTime":225.592,"body":"In reality, we believe I believe to it"},{"startTime":225.625,"endTime":228.461,"body":"the biggest challenge"},{"startTime":225.625,"endTime":228.461,"body":"is thermal management in the battery."},{"startTime":229.262,"endTime":233.967,"body":"So there may not line up with critical"},{"startTime":229.262,"endTime":233.967,"body":"components being also the most challenging"},{"startTime":233.967,"endTime":238.104,"body":"to design, right to get right to assemble,"},{"startTime":233.967,"endTime":238.104,"body":"right to prototype, right test, write,"},{"startTime":238.104,"endTime":239.405,"body":"whatever it might be."},{"startTime":239.405,"endTime":242.575,"body":"How is it in fuel cells as the component,"},{"startTime":239.405,"endTime":242.575,"body":"as you just mentioned, Are they older?"},{"startTime":242.609,"endTime":244.844,"body":"Also, they're the 2 to 3 most"},{"startTime":245.778,"endTime":248.214,"body":"challenging components to design"},{"startTime":248.214,"endTime":251.317,"body":"to maybe not design, but maybe to build to"},{"startTime":251.317,"endTime":255.421,"body":"because of quality issues,"},{"startTime":251.317,"endTime":255.421,"body":"because of small tolerances, whatever."},{"startTime":255.421,"endTime":257.423,"body":"Can you shed a little bit of light"},{"startTime":255.421,"endTime":257.423,"body":"on that?"},{"startTime":257.423,"endTime":257.957,"body":"Sure. Yeah."},{"startTime":257.957,"endTime":262.895,"body":"I mean, you did allude to a lot of the"},{"startTime":257.957,"endTime":262.895,"body":"things we think about on those components."},{"startTime":263.162,"endTime":266.699,"body":"Each one kind of has its own unique"},{"startTime":263.162,"endTime":266.699,"body":"set of challenges."},{"startTime":267.0,"endTime":270.27,"body":"I mean, if you start talking about the MTA"},{"startTime":267.0,"endTime":270.27,"body":"with the membrane in there,"},{"startTime":270.27,"endTime":273.139,"body":"the membrane is only ten or 12 microns"},{"startTime":270.27,"endTime":273.139,"body":"thick."},{"startTime":273.306,"endTime":274.774,"body":"It's very, very thin."},{"startTime":274.774,"endTime":278.645,"body":"And so now you're dealing with"},{"startTime":274.774,"endTime":278.645,"body":"in sort of industrial"},{"startTime":278.778,"endTime":283.383,"body":"assembly processes,"},{"startTime":278.778,"endTime":283.383,"body":"very thin, difficult to handle membranes."},{"startTime":284.35,"endTime":286.786,"body":"So that in and of itself is a challenge."},{"startTime":286.786,"endTime":289.422,"body":"But the catalyst layer that goes on,"},{"startTime":289.422,"endTime":293.092,"body":"it is also quite thin"},{"startTime":289.422,"endTime":293.092,"body":"and it contains platinum."},{"startTime":293.993,"endTime":296.362,"body":"And platinum is"},{"startTime":293.993,"endTime":296.362,"body":"what makes the reaction take place."},{"startTime":296.362,"endTime":299.065,"body":"So we want to make sure"},{"startTime":296.362,"endTime":299.065,"body":"we take care of our platinum."},{"startTime":299.065,"endTime":303.369,"body":"It's we don't want it to tell to wash away"},{"startTime":299.065,"endTime":303.369,"body":"or to break down"},{"startTime":303.369,"endTime":305.171,"body":"or to get corroded in any way."},{"startTime":305.171,"endTime":308.775,"body":"So the challenge is design"},{"startTime":305.171,"endTime":308.775,"body":"a catalyst layer that's somehow low"},{"startTime":308.775,"endTime":313.513,"body":"on platinum, but also durable"},{"startTime":308.775,"endTime":313.513,"body":"and gives you the power that you want."},{"startTime":313.813,"endTime":314.781,"body":"So that's where you get into"},{"startTime":314.781,"endTime":317.817,"body":"a little bit of that electrochemistry,"},{"startTime":314.781,"endTime":317.817,"body":"a little bit of black magic, where"},{"startTime":318.818,"endTime":322.955,"body":"mechanical engineers like me can't"},{"startTime":318.818,"endTime":322.955,"body":"always get their head exactly around it."},{"startTime":323.823,"endTime":324.39,"body":"That's where we have"},{"startTime":324.39,"endTime":327.96,"body":"a lot of expertise in chemists"},{"startTime":324.39,"endTime":327.96,"body":"and how that can help us with that."},{"startTime":328.828,"endTime":333.299,"body":"And then if you zoom out"},{"startTime":328.828,"endTime":333.299,"body":"to the bipolar plate, you know,"},{"startTime":333.733,"endTime":335.368,"body":"the whole idea of fuel cells"},{"startTime":335.368,"endTime":338.671,"body":"is how much power"},{"startTime":335.368,"endTime":338.671,"body":"can you make out of the smallest package?"},{"startTime":338.905,"endTime":340.673,"body":"Power density, we call that."},{"startTime":340.673,"endTime":343.309,"body":"And so you want the plates"},{"startTime":340.673,"endTime":343.309,"body":"to be as thin as possible."},{"startTime":343.776,"endTime":348.581,"body":"But of course, as they get thin, you run"},{"startTime":343.776,"endTime":348.581,"body":"into problems with, you know, robustness,"},{"startTime":349.615,"endTime":351.351,"body":"cracking, breaking."},{"startTime":351.351,"endTime":354.821,"body":"If they're metal,"},{"startTime":351.351,"endTime":354.821,"body":"perhaps welding is a problem because"},{"startTime":354.821,"endTime":358.791,"body":"you're welding very, very thin substrate"},{"startTime":354.821,"endTime":358.791,"body":"like a 100 micron thick substrate."},{"startTime":360.293,"endTime":363.796,"body":"So there's a lot of challenges there"},{"startTime":360.293,"endTime":363.796,"body":"in trying to make a plate"},{"startTime":363.796,"endTime":369.602,"body":"that is durable enough"},{"startTime":363.796,"endTime":369.602,"body":"or robust enough to handle the stresses of"},{"startTime":369.635,"endTime":373.706,"body":"being inside the stack, but not so thick"},{"startTime":369.635,"endTime":373.706,"body":"that you lose your power density."},{"startTime":374.006,"endTime":374.607,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":375.174,"endTime":377.31,"body":"And then lastly,"},{"startTime":375.174,"endTime":377.31,"body":"I would just comment on the"},{"startTime":377.643,"endTime":379.946,"body":"maybe the compression system"},{"startTime":377.643,"endTime":379.946,"body":"that holds it all together."},{"startTime":380.68,"endTime":383.583,"body":"This is the part that most people"},{"startTime":380.68,"endTime":383.583,"body":"can relate to because you can see it."},{"startTime":383.583,"endTime":385.051,"body":"You can you can see how it works."},{"startTime":385.051,"endTime":387.32,"body":"It has springs"},{"startTime":385.051,"endTime":387.32,"body":"and things like that inside of it."},{"startTime":388.121,"endTime":390.69,"body":"But I would say that"},{"startTime":388.121,"endTime":390.69,"body":"the challenge there is"},{"startTime":392.191,"endTime":394.06,"body":"it needs to be able to be"},{"startTime":394.06,"endTime":397.029,"body":"an interface"},{"startTime":394.06,"endTime":397.029,"body":"to the rest of the fuel cell system."},{"startTime":397.73,"endTime":400.933,"body":"So you have to make sure you consider"},{"startTime":397.73,"endTime":400.933,"body":"what those interfaces are."},{"startTime":401.434,"endTime":404.07,"body":"And I would also say that"},{"startTime":404.07,"endTime":408.775,"body":"it has to be robust in that,"},{"startTime":404.07,"endTime":408.775,"body":"you know, our products are in cars"},{"startTime":408.775,"endTime":412.979,"body":"and ships and trucks and you think about"},{"startTime":408.775,"endTime":412.979,"body":"shock and vibration and things like that,"},{"startTime":413.479,"endTime":416.048,"body":"and you're essentially holding together"},{"startTime":416.048,"endTime":419.252,"body":"like an accordion of cells into a block."},{"startTime":419.252,"endTime":422.054,"body":"And you don't want that block to shift"},{"startTime":419.252,"endTime":422.054,"body":"or move"},{"startTime":422.054,"endTime":424.991,"body":"through the duty cycle of the stack"},{"startTime":422.054,"endTime":424.991,"body":"or the lifetime of the stack."},{"startTime":425.158,"endTime":425.925,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":425.925,"endTime":428.127,"body":"Well, I learned just recently"},{"startTime":428.795,"endTime":432.231,"body":"that that hydrogen leakage"},{"startTime":428.795,"endTime":432.231,"body":"is also a problem,"},{"startTime":433.032,"endTime":436.235,"body":"and that the way I at least understood"},{"startTime":436.235,"endTime":439.472,"body":"it is you always going to have your case"},{"startTime":436.235,"endTime":439.472,"body":"with a little bit of leakage."},{"startTime":439.872,"endTime":443.743,"body":"But as a final a fine line between"},{"startTime":439.872,"endTime":443.743,"body":"a little bit of leakage and then too much."},{"startTime":444.21,"endTime":448.448,"body":"Is that another major challenge is it's"},{"startTime":444.21,"endTime":448.448,"body":"just kind of like, you know, we got it"},{"startTime":448.481,"endTime":451.651,"body":"as good as we can and we can live"},{"startTime":448.481,"endTime":451.651,"body":"with a little bit of leakage?"},{"startTime":451.651,"endTime":456.722,"body":"Or is this constantly something"},{"startTime":451.651,"endTime":456.722,"body":"you experiment and prototype as well?"},{"startTime":457.69,"endTime":459.225,"body":"Yeah, you you've nailed it."},{"startTime":459.225,"endTime":462.361,"body":"Their ceiling is a very big challenge"},{"startTime":459.225,"endTime":462.361,"body":"in fuel cell stacks"},{"startTime":463.229,"endTime":465.765,"body":"because we have usually several"},{"startTime":465.765,"endTime":468.568,"body":"hundred individual cells all stacked up."},{"startTime":468.901,"endTime":473.239,"body":"You need to seal the hydrogen"},{"startTime":468.901,"endTime":473.239,"body":"smallest element on the periodic table"},{"startTime":474.407,"endTime":475.875,"body":"in every one of those cells."},{"startTime":475.875,"endTime":478.11,"body":"So you end up with, you know,"},{"startTime":478.11,"endTime":480.78,"body":"potentially miles of seal length inside"},{"startTime":480.78,"endTime":485.117,"body":"a cell, compounded with"},{"startTime":480.78,"endTime":485.117,"body":"the cells are so thin"},{"startTime":485.117,"endTime":488.955,"body":"that you don't have a lot of space"},{"startTime":485.117,"endTime":488.955,"body":"for like a nice, tall, compliant,"},{"startTime":488.955,"endTime":493.159,"body":"squishy seal that you would want like"},{"startTime":488.955,"endTime":493.159,"body":"around your door seal of your vehicle."},{"startTime":493.392,"endTime":497.597,"body":"We're talking fields that are"},{"startTime":493.392,"endTime":497.597,"body":"maybe a half a millimeter tall on one side"},{"startTime":497.597,"endTime":501.1,"body":"and maybe only 20"},{"startTime":497.597,"endTime":501.1,"body":"or 30 microns on the other side."},{"startTime":502.335,"endTime":507.974,"body":"So and maybe second to"},{"startTime":502.335,"endTime":507.974,"body":"that is you can't use ceiling materials"},{"startTime":507.974,"endTime":512.211,"body":"that would potentially harm the membrane"},{"startTime":507.974,"endTime":512.211,"body":"or the catalyst layer."},{"startTime":512.245,"endTime":515.648,"body":"So we know, for example, that silicone,"},{"startTime":512.245,"endTime":515.648,"body":"a very common ceiling material,"},{"startTime":515.882,"endTime":519.552,"body":"does actually have"},{"startTime":515.882,"endTime":519.552,"body":"a harmful impact to the stack."},{"startTime":519.552,"endTime":523.623,"body":"So we want to make sure we use materials"},{"startTime":519.552,"endTime":523.623,"body":"that are fuel cell safe"},{"startTime":524.624,"endTime":526.893,"body":"and also through very smart design,"},{"startTime":528.127,"endTime":531.297,"body":"try to get seal profiles"},{"startTime":528.127,"endTime":531.297,"body":"that feel the best we can."},{"startTime":531.931,"endTime":536.903,"body":"If if it leaks hydrogen that goes right"},{"startTime":531.931,"endTime":536.903,"body":"to the efficiency of the stack."},{"startTime":537.203,"endTime":537.703,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":538.538,"endTime":540.406,"body":"And the customers fuel bills."},{"startTime":540.406,"endTime":542.408,"body":"So we really don't want to leak hydrogen."},{"startTime":542.408,"endTime":545.011,"body":"We also don't want to leak hydrogen"},{"startTime":542.408,"endTime":545.011,"body":"from a safety standpoint,"},{"startTime":545.611,"endTime":548.581,"body":"even though it tends to disperse in air"},{"startTime":545.611,"endTime":548.581,"body":"very quickly."},{"startTime":549.181,"endTime":551.551,"body":"We need to be careful with that."},{"startTime":551.651,"endTime":554.086,"body":"You can handle leaking a little bit of air"},{"startTime":554.086,"endTime":556.389,"body":"because we just use air"},{"startTime":554.086,"endTime":556.389,"body":"from the atmosphere."},{"startTime":557.456,"endTime":560.927,"body":"But that also creates inefficiencies"},{"startTime":557.456,"endTime":560.927,"body":"on the system."},{"startTime":560.927,"endTime":564.297,"body":"You know, your pumps or your compressors"},{"startTime":560.927,"endTime":564.297,"body":"are working harder and things like that."},{"startTime":564.797,"endTime":567.099,"body":"So we try to be smart about it"},{"startTime":564.797,"endTime":567.099,"body":"and keep leaks"},{"startTime":568.1,"endTime":572.338,"body":"to the lowest feasible level that we can."},{"startTime":573.306,"endTime":573.906,"body":"So is"},{"startTime":573.906,"endTime":577.71,"body":"is is the leaking challenged"},{"startTime":573.906,"endTime":577.71,"body":"and so to speak, is that an area"},{"startTime":577.71,"endTime":582.782,"body":"where we are still working very heavily"},{"startTime":577.71,"endTime":582.782,"body":"on, or is it something that, you know,"},{"startTime":582.782,"endTime":586.252,"body":"if something new comes up, a new material"},{"startTime":582.782,"endTime":586.252,"body":"you mentioned you can't use silicon."},{"startTime":587.52,"endTime":590.156,"body":"I mean, are we actively"},{"startTime":587.52,"endTime":590.156,"body":"or is the industry actively"},{"startTime":590.156,"endTime":592.124,"body":"looking into something like this"},{"startTime":590.156,"endTime":592.124,"body":"or is like,"},{"startTime":592.124,"endTime":594.26,"body":"you know what, Again, we can live with it."},{"startTime":594.26,"endTime":598.23,"body":"We better focus on the membrane,"},{"startTime":594.26,"endTime":598.23,"body":"on the bipolar plates"},{"startTime":598.23,"endTime":600.633,"body":"or on something else,"},{"startTime":598.23,"endTime":600.633,"body":"whereas the industry is"},{"startTime":601.667,"endTime":605.805,"body":"really focusing on it and we're focusing"},{"startTime":601.667,"endTime":605.805,"body":"on the entire power plant, but"},{"startTime":607.106,"endTime":609.842,"body":"specifically to the fuel cell,"},{"startTime":607.106,"endTime":609.842,"body":"to the things where we may be,"},{"startTime":610.142,"endTime":613.079,"body":"in your opinion, focusing the most on."},{"startTime":613.079,"endTime":615.982,"body":"You know, I think"},{"startTime":613.079,"endTime":615.982,"body":"from like an industrialization standpoint"},{"startTime":615.982,"endTime":621.587,"body":"or reducing costs via volume production,"},{"startTime":615.982,"endTime":621.587,"body":"every component needs the focus,"},{"startTime":622.922,"endTime":623.789,"body":"but probably"},{"startTime":623.789,"endTime":628.127,"body":"most around the MEA and the bipolar plates"},{"startTime":623.789,"endTime":628.127,"body":"and the seals."},{"startTime":628.127,"endTime":629.762,"body":"So you're right there."},{"startTime":630.363,"endTime":632.965,"body":"We what we try to do here"},{"startTime":632.965,"endTime":638.037,"body":"is benchmark the latest and greatest"},{"startTime":632.965,"endTime":638.037,"body":"from all the suppliers we can find"},{"startTime":638.337,"endTime":641.207,"body":"as far as ceiling"},{"startTime":638.337,"endTime":641.207,"body":"materials, plate materials,"},{"startTime":642.775,"endTime":645.845,"body":"CCM - catalyst coated membrane,"},{"startTime":642.775,"endTime":645.845,"body":"which is part of the MEA"},{"startTime":646.679,"endTime":650.816,"body":"so that we try to stay on the leading edge"},{"startTime":646.679,"endTime":650.816,"body":"of what is up and coming and then"},{"startTime":650.816,"endTime":655.221,"body":"think about how that will eventually"},{"startTime":650.816,"endTime":655.221,"body":"be ramped up into high volume production."},{"startTime":655.621,"endTime":659.291,"body":"So like I would say at any given time,"},{"startTime":659.291,"endTime":661.861,"body":"we probably have R\u0026D projects going on"},{"startTime":662.762,"endTime":666.732,"body":"maybe three, four"},{"startTime":662.762,"endTime":666.732,"body":"or five on every one of those components"},{"startTime":666.732,"endTime":671.47,"body":"to try to think about what's next"},{"startTime":666.732,"endTime":671.47,"body":"and how we reduce cost while improving."},{"startTime":671.47,"endTime":672.571,"body":"Manufacturability."},{"startTime":673.639,"endTime":674.473,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":675.107,"endTime":678.411,"body":"Let's talk a little bit"},{"startTime":675.107,"endTime":678.411,"body":"maybe about raw materials in batteries,"},{"startTime":678.411,"endTime":684.55,"body":"which is oftentimes right you,"},{"startTime":678.411,"endTime":684.55,"body":"we we pin batteries against hydrogen"},{"startTime":684.55,"endTime":688.32,"body":"or fuel cells, which is better"},{"startTime":684.55,"endTime":688.32,"body":"or what is better or more efficient,"},{"startTime":688.854,"endTime":691.39,"body":"you name it, a constant battle."},{"startTime":691.39,"endTime":695.995,"body":"I think the answer is probably"},{"startTime":691.39,"endTime":695.995,"body":"they both have its proper place."},{"startTime":695.995,"endTime":697.663,"body":"But when we talk about raw material"},{"startTime":697.663,"endTime":700.533,"body":"on the battery side, clearly it's"},{"startTime":697.663,"endTime":700.533,"body":"going to be a major challenge."},{"startTime":700.533,"endTime":704.136,"body":"Billions and billions dollars"},{"startTime":700.533,"endTime":704.136,"body":"invested last year alone or announced"},{"startTime":704.704,"endTime":707.006,"body":"for new battery plants in the U.S. alone."},{"startTime":707.039,"endTime":709.775,"body":"So in North America alone,"},{"startTime":709.775,"endTime":712.645,"body":"maybe few people talk about"},{"startTime":709.775,"endTime":712.645,"body":"where do we ultimately get all this raw"},{"startTime":712.645,"endTime":716.182,"body":"material together that factories"},{"startTime":712.645,"endTime":716.182,"body":"can actually produce batteries?"},{"startTime":716.882,"endTime":719.185,"body":"Do we have a challenge with raw materials"},{"startTime":719.185,"endTime":722.888,"body":"for any of these components"},{"startTime":719.185,"endTime":722.888,"body":"that you need for a for a fuel cell?"},{"startTime":723.823,"endTime":728.227,"body":"You know, I mean, I think the one that"},{"startTime":723.823,"endTime":728.227,"body":"everybody thinks about is the platinum."},{"startTime":728.594,"endTime":730.429,"body":"That's that's still our main catalyst."},{"startTime":730.429,"endTime":731.263,"body":"In the catalyst there."},{"startTime":731.263,"endTime":734.467,"body":"Of course,"},{"startTime":731.263,"endTime":734.467,"body":"people are working on several non"},{"startTime":734.467,"endTime":738.037,"body":"platinum options,"},{"startTime":734.467,"endTime":738.037,"body":"which I don't know much about, but"},{"startTime":738.637,"endTime":741.273,"body":"we do poke around a little bit"},{"startTime":738.637,"endTime":741.273,"body":"in that research."},{"startTime":742.041,"endTime":745.277,"body":"The amount of platinum is not a lot."},{"startTime":745.277,"endTime":748.748,"body":"I wish I knew an exact number,"},{"startTime":745.277,"endTime":748.748,"body":"but I think it's it's, it's."},{"startTime":748.881,"endTime":751.55,"body":"milligrams per cell. Okay."},{"startTime":751.55,"endTime":754.72,"body":"And the good thing about that"},{"startTime":751.55,"endTime":754.72,"body":"platinum is after the life of the"},{"startTime":754.72,"endTime":756.188,"body":"stack, it can be reclaimed"},{"startTime":757.389,"endTime":758.791,"body":"and recycled."},{"startTime":758.791,"endTime":762.094,"body":"So really, I think the biggest challenge"},{"startTime":758.791,"endTime":762.094,"body":"is reducing platinum"},{"startTime":762.094,"endTime":765.898,"body":"while maintaining the same durability"},{"startTime":762.094,"endTime":765.898,"body":"and performance that we currently have."},{"startTime":766.198,"endTime":769.502,"body":"That's where a lot of chemistry research"},{"startTime":766.198,"endTime":769.502,"body":"takes place."},{"startTime":769.802,"endTime":770.603,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":771.036,"endTime":776.142,"body":"And in your prototyping, when you put"},{"startTime":771.036,"endTime":776.142,"body":"a complete fuel cell stack together,"},{"startTime":777.009,"endTime":781.18,"body":"how much do you rely on your experience"},{"startTime":777.009,"endTime":781.18,"body":"in how to put this together?"},{"startTime":781.18,"endTime":787.019,"body":"How much do you rely on maybe virtual"},{"startTime":781.18,"endTime":787.019,"body":"and simulation tools, how much to rely on?"},{"startTime":787.119,"endTime":789.655,"body":"I'm going to try. And if not, I'm"},{"startTime":787.119,"endTime":789.655,"body":"going to go a different route."},{"startTime":789.688,"endTime":793.459,"body":"Can you give me a little bit of an idea"},{"startTime":789.688,"endTime":793.459,"body":"of how you will specifically prototype?"},{"startTime":793.459,"endTime":797.396,"body":"Not when we get into whatever"},{"startTime":793.459,"endTime":797.396,"body":"production rate, when we do hundreds"},{"startTime":797.396,"endTime":802.034,"body":"and or thousands of them,"},{"startTime":797.396,"endTime":802.034,"body":"but getting prototypes 5 to 10 or so, what"},{"startTime":802.101,"endTime":805.571,"body":"what do you heavily rely on that maybe is"},{"startTime":806.238,"endTime":808.741,"body":"normal practice"},{"startTime":806.238,"endTime":808.741,"body":"or maybe unique for fuel cells?"},{"startTime":809.375,"endTime":809.975,"body":"Yeah, maybe."},{"startTime":809.975,"endTime":814.046,"body":"Like I guess if you zoom out,"},{"startTime":809.975,"endTime":814.046,"body":"it's a fairly standard product development"},{"startTime":814.046,"endTime":817.55,"body":"and prototyping process as far as how"},{"startTime":814.046,"endTime":817.55,"body":"you would create a new thing."},{"startTime":818.918,"endTime":819.518,"body":"I guess for"},{"startTime":819.518,"endTime":821.72,"body":"us we're fortunate in that we can start"},{"startTime":822.721,"endTime":825.157,"body":"a lot of our research"},{"startTime":822.721,"endTime":825.157,"body":"at a some scale level."},{"startTime":826.992,"endTime":828.227,"body":"Small coupons,"},{"startTime":828.227,"endTime":831.831,"body":"material samples, things like that"},{"startTime":828.227,"endTime":831.831,"body":"start to that materials as"},{"startTime":832.765,"endTime":836.702,"body":"before we make any major investment"},{"startTime":832.765,"endTime":836.702,"body":"in full size stack components."},{"startTime":837.236,"endTime":840.906,"body":"And then as we build confidence,"},{"startTime":837.236,"endTime":840.906,"body":"we can then scale up to what"},{"startTime":840.906,"endTime":845.11,"body":"we call a short stack,"},{"startTime":840.906,"endTime":845.11,"body":"which is the footprint of a full size"},{"startTime":845.11,"endTime":848.747,"body":"cell, but only a handful of those cells,"},{"startTime":845.11,"endTime":848.747,"body":"not several hundred. Mm."},{"startTime":849.181,"endTime":853.152,"body":"And we can gain almost everything"},{"startTime":849.181,"endTime":853.152,"body":"we need to know at that short"},{"startTime":853.152,"endTime":855.387,"body":"stack level and save the investment"},{"startTime":856.989,"endTime":858.023,"body":"elsewhere."},{"startTime":858.023,"endTime":860.626,"body":"So we do a lot of short"},{"startTime":858.023,"endTime":860.626,"body":"stack builds and testing."},{"startTime":861.727,"endTime":864.396,"body":"I would say before"},{"startTime":861.727,"endTime":864.396,"body":"we even get to that point though,"},{"startTime":864.396,"endTime":869.235,"body":"we we do an extensive amount"},{"startTime":864.396,"endTime":869.235,"body":"of modeling and simulation. Can"},{"startTime":871.17,"endTime":871.37,"body":"there's"},{"startTime":871.37,"endTime":874.707,"body":"probably three main areas"},{"startTime":871.37,"endTime":874.707,"body":"of modeling and simulation"},{"startTime":874.707,"endTime":877.409,"body":"I think we focus on"},{"startTime":874.707,"endTime":877.409,"body":"if we were to break it down,"},{"startTime":879.044,"endTime":880.746,"body":"the first one is a very"},{"startTime":880.746,"endTime":885.351,"body":"standard mechanical, finite element"},{"startTime":880.746,"endTime":885.351,"body":"analysis that you would do to"},{"startTime":885.584,"endTime":887.653,"body":"to test"},{"startTime":885.584,"endTime":887.653,"body":"the strength of a component design."},{"startTime":889.255,"endTime":892.625,"body":"We do a lot of FDA in-house,"},{"startTime":889.255,"endTime":892.625,"body":"but then we also leverage"},{"startTime":892.725,"endTime":896.028,"body":"greater AVL Corp"},{"startTime":896.362,"endTime":900.332,"body":"to help us with maybe"},{"startTime":896.362,"endTime":900.332,"body":"higher computing power when we need it."},{"startTime":900.332,"endTime":901.634,"body":"The same goes with CFD."},{"startTime":901.634,"endTime":905.638,"body":"When we look at the flow of the gases"},{"startTime":901.634,"endTime":905.638,"body":"and the coolant through the stack,"},{"startTime":906.639,"endTime":912.177,"body":"we we can now model the flow of,"},{"startTime":906.639,"endTime":912.177,"body":"say, hydrogen through an entire fuel"},{"startTime":912.177,"endTime":913.479,"body":"cell stack,"},{"startTime":913.479,"endTime":917.283,"body":"which is amazing information for us when"},{"startTime":913.479,"endTime":917.283,"body":"it comes to plate design, for example."},{"startTime":918.117,"endTime":922.288,"body":"And then maybe the area"},{"startTime":918.117,"endTime":922.288,"body":"where it's the most exciting"},{"startTime":922.288,"endTime":926.425,"body":"and evolving is performance"},{"startTime":922.288,"endTime":926.425,"body":"modeling of a stack."},{"startTime":926.425,"endTime":930.629,"body":"So using physics and first principles,"},{"startTime":926.425,"endTime":930.629,"body":"math to actually predict"},{"startTime":931.13,"endTime":933.699,"body":"how a stack would perform"},{"startTime":931.13,"endTime":933.699,"body":"before you build anything."},{"startTime":935.034,"endTime":935.968,"body":"And so we do"},{"startTime":935.968,"endTime":941.14,"body":"in-house modeling on performance"},{"startTime":935.968,"endTime":941.14,"body":"on the degradation of the stack over time,"},{"startTime":942.107,"endTime":944.41,"body":"hydration, current distribution, you know,"},{"startTime":944.41,"endTime":948.681,"body":"all these things that you'd be interested"},{"startTime":944.41,"endTime":948.681,"body":"in before we even build anything."},{"startTime":948.681,"endTime":951.183,"body":"And through those three types of modeling,"},{"startTime":951.817,"endTime":954.92,"body":"we're getting really good at quickly"},{"startTime":951.817,"endTime":954.92,"body":"iterating stack designs"},{"startTime":956.121,"endTime":957.957,"body":"because we're starting to see that"},{"startTime":956.121,"endTime":957.957,"body":"when we do"},{"startTime":957.957,"endTime":961.26,"body":"go to physically prototype and test them,"},{"startTime":957.957,"endTime":961.26,"body":"the models are validated."},{"startTime":962.494,"endTime":965.698,"body":"So I guess I have more confidence"},{"startTime":962.494,"endTime":965.698,"body":"that than ever"},{"startTime":965.698,"endTime":969.501,"body":"in our modeling capabilities"},{"startTime":965.698,"endTime":969.501,"body":"and our ability to quickly"},{"startTime":969.501,"endTime":973.439,"body":"go through the development process"},{"startTime":969.501,"endTime":973.439,"body":"and get to that prototyping stage."},{"startTime":973.739,"endTime":976.241,"body":"Okay. Very interesting."},{"startTime":976.241,"endTime":979.812,"body":"It maybe as a as a last question,"},{"startTime":976.241,"endTime":979.812,"body":"if I had to put you on the spot"},{"startTime":979.812,"endTime":985.084,"body":"and say what is the number one,"},{"startTime":979.812,"endTime":985.084,"body":"in your opinion, key enabler"},{"startTime":985.551,"endTime":990.422,"body":"to get what you mentioned"},{"startTime":985.551,"endTime":990.422,"body":"before, the key measurement of a fuel cell"},{"startTime":990.422,"endTime":993.025,"body":"is the energy density around"},{"startTime":993.525,"endTime":996.195,"body":"what what in your mind is the key enabler?"},{"startTime":996.362,"endTime":1000.833,"body":"Is it a better virtual validation"},{"startTime":996.362,"endTime":1000.833,"body":"or design capability?"},{"startTime":1000.833,"endTime":1003.035,"body":"Is it different material?"},{"startTime":1003.035,"endTime":1007.373,"body":"Is it more stacking off of of weight"},{"startTime":1007.373,"endTime":1011.543,"body":"so even even thinner and better material"},{"startTime":1007.373,"endTime":1011.543,"body":"or or what?"},{"startTime":1011.543,"endTime":1014.713,"body":"Just anything and everything"},{"startTime":1011.543,"endTime":1014.713,"body":"that you think is the number one,"},{"startTime":1014.713,"endTime":1018.117,"body":"in your opinion, key enabler"},{"startTime":1014.713,"endTime":1018.117,"body":"to improve energy density?"},{"startTime":1018.717,"endTime":1020.586,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":1018.717,"endTime":1020.586,"body":"I think if you're having me pick just one,"},{"startTime":1020.586,"endTime":1023.055,"body":"it would be right back"},{"startTime":1020.586,"endTime":1023.055,"body":"down to that catalyst layer."},{"startTime":1023.355,"endTime":1027.626,"body":"Yeah, the electrochemistry,"},{"startTime":1023.355,"endTime":1027.626,"body":"that's really where"},{"startTime":1027.626,"endTime":1031.73,"body":"I think we can move the needle"},{"startTime":1027.626,"endTime":1031.73,"body":"quite a bit, improving our power density."},{"startTime":1031.964,"endTime":1036.335,"body":"But of course we're always trying"},{"startTime":1031.964,"endTime":1036.335,"body":"to make the stack thinner,"},{"startTime":1036.335,"endTime":1039.238,"body":"cheaper, stronger,"},{"startTime":1036.335,"endTime":1039.238,"body":"you know, all of those things."},{"startTime":1040.172,"endTime":1042.841,"body":"But I think when it comes down to the"},{"startTime":1042.841,"endTime":1045.844,"body":"A lever where you can easily influence"},{"startTime":1046.412,"endTime":1050.616,"body":"the same stack design,"},{"startTime":1046.412,"endTime":1050.616,"body":"the catalyst layer allows you to do that."},{"startTime":1050.616,"endTime":1053.886,"body":"You can take the exact same stack design,"},{"startTime":1050.616,"endTime":1053.886,"body":"put in different catalyst"},{"startTime":1053.886,"endTime":1056.588,"body":"layers and get completely"},{"startTime":1053.886,"endTime":1056.588,"body":"different performance out of it."},{"startTime":1057.056,"endTime":1059.258,"body":"So really that's where it's at"},{"startTime":1057.056,"endTime":1059.258,"body":"and I think where"},{"startTime":1059.591,"endTime":1061.894,"body":"we see"},{"startTime":1059.591,"endTime":1061.894,"body":"a lot of our suppliers as well working"},{"startTime":1062.394,"endTime":1066.899,"body":"and it it's, it's been a very good"},{"startTime":1062.394,"endTime":1066.899,"body":"and quick progression on power density"},{"startTime":1066.899,"endTime":1070.736,"body":"in the catalyst layer world, especially"},{"startTime":1066.899,"endTime":1070.736,"body":"as fuel cells become more popular,"},{"startTime":1071.437,"endTime":1073.505,"body":"we see more investment."},{"startTime":1073.505,"endTime":1077.042,"body":"That was historically always"},{"startTime":1073.505,"endTime":1077.042,"body":"our problem is we know we want to get"},{"startTime":1077.042,"endTime":1079.812,"body":"we just can't get it"},{"startTime":1077.042,"endTime":1079.812,"body":"because nobody's investing in there."},{"startTime":1080.646,"endTime":1083.082,"body":"But now we're starting to have access"},{"startTime":1080.646,"endTime":1083.082,"body":"to those materials,"},{"startTime":1083.082,"endTime":1088.153,"body":"those suppliers, those those designs"},{"startTime":1083.082,"endTime":1088.153,"body":"that we didn't have previously."},{"startTime":1088.887,"endTime":1092.291,"body":"You maybe that leads me now"},{"startTime":1088.887,"endTime":1092.291,"body":"to my truly last question then."},{"startTime":1093.559,"endTime":1095.194,"body":"We've been working on fuel cell stacks."},{"startTime":1095.194,"endTime":1097.996,"body":"We've been able for,"},{"startTime":1095.194,"endTime":1097.996,"body":"I think, ten years now,"},{"startTime":1099.364,"endTime":1103.569,"body":"fuel cell and fuel"},{"startTime":1099.364,"endTime":1103.569,"body":"cell stacks in the hydrogen based,"},{"startTime":1103.569,"endTime":1107.473,"body":"let's say, propulsion, fuel,"},{"startTime":1108.44,"endTime":1110.542,"body":"desire or capability has been around."},{"startTime":1110.542,"endTime":1113.045,"body":"We've been talking about it"},{"startTime":1110.542,"endTime":1113.045,"body":"for 20 years. Right."},{"startTime":1113.045,"endTime":1117.082,"body":"In your opinion, Aaron, is now"},{"startTime":1113.045,"endTime":1117.082,"body":"finally the time where we hit that?"},{"startTime":1117.816,"endTime":1121.353,"body":"But we're past that plateau"},{"startTime":1117.816,"endTime":1121.353,"body":"and really now seeing applications"},{"startTime":1121.353,"endTime":1124.89,"body":"where we're actually truly"},{"startTime":1121.353,"endTime":1124.89,"body":"going to going to do it not just say"},{"startTime":1124.99,"endTime":1128.56,"body":"in prototypes or in these small areas,"},{"startTime":1124.99,"endTime":1128.56,"body":"but really,"},{"startTime":1128.76,"endTime":1132.164,"body":"really going to the mobility space"},{"startTime":1128.76,"endTime":1132.164,"body":"in not just one small area,"},{"startTime":1132.164,"endTime":1136.168,"body":"both from stationary power to heavy duty"},{"startTime":1132.164,"endTime":1136.168,"body":"truck"},{"startTime":1136.168,"endTime":1138.704,"body":"applications, you name it."},{"startTime":1139.304,"endTime":1141.607,"body":"He's now the time finally."},{"startTime":1141.607,"endTime":1143.542,"body":"Yeah, you know, it is the time."},{"startTime":1143.542,"endTime":1145.01,"body":"And I think that's not just my opinion."},{"startTime":1145.01,"endTime":1149.114,"body":"We see the the types of customers"},{"startTime":1145.01,"endTime":1149.114,"body":"that come to us and the diversity"},{"startTime":1149.114,"endTime":1150.449,"body":"of customers that come to us"},{"startTime":1151.55,"endTime":1153.785,"body":"with real investment power as well,"},{"startTime":1153.785,"endTime":1156.788,"body":"not just wanting to do a little science"},{"startTime":1153.785,"endTime":1156.788,"body":"project that"},{"startTime":1157.89,"endTime":1159.892,"body":"I think a lot of that has to do with."},{"startTime":1159.892,"endTime":1163.228,"body":"We have a pretty good understanding of the"},{"startTime":1159.892,"endTime":1163.228,"body":"limitations of batteries at the moment."},{"startTime":1163.228,"endTime":1165.264,"body":"You know, it was always like, Well,"},{"startTime":1165.264,"endTime":1169.168,"body":"let's have hydrogen be after batteries,"},{"startTime":1165.264,"endTime":1169.168,"body":"the thing after batteries,"},{"startTime":1169.434,"endTime":1171.17,"body":"and now we're in the battery world"},{"startTime":1171.17,"endTime":1173.238,"body":"and we kind of understand"},{"startTime":1171.17,"endTime":1173.238,"body":"what the limitations are."},{"startTime":1173.238,"endTime":1176.975,"body":"And they're very strong in some areas"},{"startTime":1173.238,"endTime":1176.975,"body":"and maybe a little bit more limited"},{"startTime":1176.975,"endTime":1177.743,"body":"in others."},{"startTime":1177.743,"endTime":1180.812,"body":"And so people are starting to understand,"},{"startTime":1177.743,"endTime":1180.812,"body":"okay, for real, hydrogen"},{"startTime":1180.812,"endTime":1183.382,"body":"does fit in this sector"},{"startTime":1184.016,"endTime":1186.718,"body":"and that it's worth investing in."},{"startTime":1186.718,"endTime":1190.055,"body":"It's exciting for us because on one"},{"startTime":1186.718,"endTime":1190.055,"body":"we could talk to a customer"},{"startTime":1190.055,"endTime":1191.557,"body":"who's in the marine industry"},{"startTime":1191.557,"endTime":1193.425,"body":"and then the next day"},{"startTime":1191.557,"endTime":1193.425,"body":"it's a trucking customer"},{"startTime":1193.425,"endTime":1195.561,"body":"and the next day"},{"startTime":1193.425,"endTime":1195.561,"body":"it's a guy who wants to build a drone"},{"startTime":1196.662,"endTime":1198.096,"body":"all with fuel cell."},{"startTime":1198.096,"endTime":1199.431,"body":"So I really do."},{"startTime":1199.431,"endTime":1201.733,"body":"And not just marketing speak."},{"startTime":1201.733,"endTime":1204.736,"body":"I really do think"},{"startTime":1201.733,"endTime":1204.736,"body":"from a technical engineering standpoint"},{"startTime":1205.27,"endTime":1209.474,"body":"that the tide is turning"},{"startTime":1205.27,"endTime":1209.474,"body":"and that people are finally seeing"},{"startTime":1210.008,"endTime":1214.68,"body":"fuel cells as a complementary powertrain"},{"startTime":1210.008,"endTime":1214.68,"body":"technology, not a challenge to battery."},{"startTime":1215.847,"endTime":1219.718,"body":"We in the fuel cell world"},{"startTime":1215.847,"endTime":1219.718,"body":"didn't think there was a competition."},{"startTime":1219.718,"endTime":1222.054,"body":"We know that they need each other."},{"startTime":1222.054,"endTime":1224.122,"body":"And so I think if the industry embraces"},{"startTime":1224.122,"endTime":1227.459,"body":"that as well and they are embracing that,"},{"startTime":1224.122,"endTime":1227.459,"body":"they'll realize that that's the case."},{"startTime":1227.993,"endTime":1228.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1228.36,"endTime":1231.129,"body":"So at the end of the day,"},{"startTime":1228.36,"endTime":1231.129,"body":"we're really driving the"},{"startTime":1231.396,"endTime":1236.935,"body":"the mobility trends of tomorrow today"},{"startTime":1231.396,"endTime":1236.935,"body":"and in your case and with fuel cell Canada"},{"startTime":1237.603,"endTime":1241.673,"body":"and they'll definitely be"},{"startTime":1237.603,"endTime":1241.673,"body":"the fuel cell stack, which is obviously"},{"startTime":1241.673,"endTime":1246.612,"body":"a big enabler or a key component"},{"startTime":1241.673,"endTime":1246.612,"body":"if we want to make hydrogen work here."},{"startTime":1246.612,"endTime":1248.58,"body":"So thank you, Aaron, for your time."},{"startTime":1248.58,"endTime":1250.916,"body":"And thanks, everybody for for tuning in."},{"startTime":1251.817,"endTime":1252.451,"body":"Thanks for listening."},{"startTime":1252.451,"endTime":1254.253,"body":"To Reimagine Mobility Podcast."},{"startTime":1254.253,"endTime":1256.888,"body":"If you'd like to episode,"},{"startTime":1254.253,"endTime":1256.888,"body":"please subscribe and tell a friend."}]}