{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.753,"endTime":7.007,"body":"Welcome to the latest edition"},{"startTime":3.753,"endTime":7.007,"body":"of Reimagined Mobility podcast series."},{"startTime":7.007,"endTime":8.8,"body":"I'm here with Daniel Schwartz."},{"startTime":8.8,"endTime":11.136,"body":"Good to see you all"},{"startTime":8.8,"endTime":11.136,"body":"and thanks for joining me."},{"startTime":12.512,"endTime":15.306,"body":"You've been in engineering"},{"startTime":15.306,"endTime":17.058,"body":"ten plus 15 years, 20 years."},{"startTime":17.058,"endTime":20.228,"body":"Already, 20."},{"startTime":17.058,"endTime":20.228,"body":"Plus years, a long time. Yeah."},{"startTime":20.437,"endTime":21.104,"body":"You have moved"},{"startTime":21.104,"endTime":24.941,"body":"now more into the customer facing business"},{"startTime":21.104,"endTime":24.941,"body":"development side right now."},{"startTime":25.025,"endTime":28.111,"body":"So tell me a little bit"},{"startTime":25.025,"endTime":28.111,"body":"about your customers and what's what's"},{"startTime":28.111,"endTime":31.531,"body":"the most interesting thing that you've"},{"startTime":28.111,"endTime":31.531,"body":"learned already about this in a short"},{"startTime":31.531,"endTime":36.161,"body":"period of time from your customers"},{"startTime":31.531,"endTime":36.161,"body":"or about your customers that maybe before"},{"startTime":36.578,"endTime":39.456,"body":"when you were on the engineering side,"},{"startTime":36.578,"endTime":39.456,"body":"you never really realized?"},{"startTime":40.331,"endTime":43.209,"body":"Well, I've been with AVL for a long time."},{"startTime":43.209,"endTime":46.713,"body":"20 plus years, started out"},{"startTime":43.209,"endTime":46.713,"body":"as a mechanical engineer by trade."},{"startTime":47.172,"endTime":50.675,"body":"And you're right, a few years ago,"},{"startTime":47.172,"endTime":50.675,"body":"I transitioned more into this business"},{"startTime":50.675,"endTime":51.551,"body":"development role,"},{"startTime":52.594,"endTime":52.927,"body":"which I"},{"startTime":52.927,"endTime":57.182,"body":"tremendously enjoy because it's a it's"},{"startTime":52.927,"endTime":57.182,"body":"a very dynamic time"},{"startTime":57.182,"endTime":60.185,"body":"that we're live in, especially"},{"startTime":57.182,"endTime":60.185,"body":"when it comes to our industry, right?"},{"startTime":60.226,"endTime":65.648,"body":"And to the topics that are being discussed"},{"startTime":60.226,"endTime":65.648,"body":"in the industry, the transition"},{"startTime":66.399,"endTime":68.735,"body":"from fossil fuels into new emerging"},{"startTime":68.735,"endTime":71.946,"body":"technologies"},{"startTime":68.735,"endTime":71.946,"body":"is something that's tremendously exciting"},{"startTime":72.405,"endTime":76.785,"body":"and makes for interesting conversations"},{"startTime":72.405,"endTime":76.785,"body":"and and working days, I have to say."},{"startTime":77.077,"endTime":77.535,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":78.286,"endTime":82.207,"body":"And what are some of the things"},{"startTime":78.286,"endTime":82.207,"body":"that you now learned about your customers,"},{"startTime":82.207,"endTime":86.086,"body":"Maybe how they behave,"},{"startTime":82.207,"endTime":86.086,"body":"how they interact with with companies"},{"startTime":87.212,"endTime":91.007,"body":"internally, externally that maybe before"},{"startTime":87.212,"endTime":91.007,"body":"you never really recognized"},{"startTime":91.007,"endTime":94.219,"body":"when you were more on the heating"},{"startTime":91.007,"endTime":94.219,"body":"from the customer"},{"startTime":94.761,"endTime":97.305,"body":"development side,"},{"startTime":94.761,"endTime":97.305,"body":"is there anything that sticks out to you?"},{"startTime":97.305,"endTime":99.766,"body":"Well, here's the thing, though,"},{"startTime":97.305,"endTime":99.766,"body":"because I was never really hidden"},{"startTime":99.766,"endTime":104.062,"body":"from the customer because at the position"},{"startTime":99.766,"endTime":104.062,"body":"I held within engineering,"},{"startTime":104.354,"endTime":106.064,"body":"you're still at the forefront,"},{"startTime":106.064,"endTime":108.858,"body":"you know, and engaged"},{"startTime":106.064,"endTime":108.858,"body":"with customers on a daily basis."},{"startTime":109.359,"endTime":112.153,"body":"So I developed business for a long time."},{"startTime":112.195,"endTime":113.738,"body":"That's just for a couple of years."},{"startTime":113.738,"endTime":117.7,"body":"But I think it's fair to say"},{"startTime":113.738,"endTime":117.7,"body":"that the customers themselves"},{"startTime":117.7,"endTime":121.788,"body":"sometimes to try to make sense"},{"startTime":117.7,"endTime":121.788,"body":"of all the options"},{"startTime":121.788,"endTime":124.916,"body":"that we have nowadays,"},{"startTime":121.788,"endTime":124.916,"body":"because I think the one thing"},{"startTime":124.916,"endTime":128.795,"body":"that we can agree on"},{"startTime":124.916,"endTime":128.795,"body":"is that we need to decarbonize."},{"startTime":128.878,"endTime":131.714,"body":"Right. But how to get there, Right?"},{"startTime":131.923,"endTime":133.299,"body":"What is the right solution?"},{"startTime":133.299,"endTime":135.218,"body":"What is the right energy carrier?"},{"startTime":135.218,"endTime":136.052,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":136.052,"endTime":138.012,"body":"Is up for discussion, I guess."},{"startTime":138.012,"endTime":139.681,"body":"And depending on the application,"},{"startTime":141.307,"endTime":142.934,"body":"it's a different answer."},{"startTime":142.934,"endTime":146.437,"body":"And some of our customers,"},{"startTime":142.934,"endTime":146.437,"body":"you know, are in the midst of trying"},{"startTime":146.437,"endTime":148.69,"body":"to figure that out for themselves."},{"startTime":148.69,"endTime":151.025,"body":"And I think this is where"},{"startTime":148.69,"endTime":151.025,"body":"we could come in."},{"startTime":151.568,"endTime":151.86,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":151.86,"endTime":155.697,"body":"And if you look at it,"},{"startTime":151.86,"endTime":155.697,"body":"I mean, the sheer bandwidth of different"},{"startTime":155.697,"endTime":159.075,"body":"applications that we're talking"},{"startTime":155.697,"endTime":159.075,"body":"just real mobility, for instance."},{"startTime":159.075,"endTime":159.534,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":160.243,"endTime":164.747,"body":"So everything from from a motorcycle"},{"startTime":160.243,"endTime":164.747,"body":"or a passenger car, you know, over"},{"startTime":165.248,"endTime":169.752,"body":"pickup trucks to commercial vehicles"},{"startTime":165.248,"endTime":169.752,"body":"and we have the construction equipment."},{"startTime":169.752,"endTime":172.005,"body":"You have agricultural machines."},{"startTime":172.297,"endTime":173.923,"body":"It's a huge bandwidth."},{"startTime":173.923,"endTime":174.34,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":174.34,"endTime":179.345,"body":"That needs to be addressed going forward"},{"startTime":174.34,"endTime":179.345,"body":"because the one thing, again, we agree on,"},{"startTime":179.762,"endTime":184.1,"body":"we need to decarbonize, but how to get"},{"startTime":179.762,"endTime":184.1,"body":"there, There is many different ways."},{"startTime":184.1,"endTime":187.604,"body":"And it's it's an exciting time"},{"startTime":184.1,"endTime":187.604,"body":"to be in that industry out."},{"startTime":188.188,"endTime":190.231,"body":"You have some customers that are,"},{"startTime":190.481,"endTime":194.11,"body":"let's say 90 plus percent"},{"startTime":190.481,"endTime":194.11,"body":"they are know where they want to go."},{"startTime":194.11,"endTime":198.072,"body":"And you have customers"},{"startTime":194.11,"endTime":198.072,"body":"that are maybe only like 10% there."},{"startTime":198.072,"endTime":202.035,"body":"Or is it really most of them are easily,"},{"startTime":198.072,"endTime":202.035,"body":"easily on their way."},{"startTime":202.035,"endTime":203.036,"body":"They know what they want to do."},{"startTime":203.036,"endTime":206.623,"body":"They just need to come to us"},{"startTime":203.036,"endTime":206.623,"body":"or go to our people"},{"startTime":206.623,"endTime":210.168,"body":"for slight course adjustments"},{"startTime":206.623,"endTime":210.168,"body":"or is really all over the place."},{"startTime":210.168,"endTime":213.671,"body":"Some are almost there, some just kind of"},{"startTime":210.168,"endTime":213.671,"body":"start the journey what you see."},{"startTime":214.088,"endTime":217.926,"body":"Well, it's difficult to put it in metrics,"},{"startTime":214.088,"endTime":217.926,"body":"I think, but I guess it's fair to say"},{"startTime":217.926,"endTime":221.971,"body":"that certain use cases"},{"startTime":217.926,"endTime":221.971,"body":"and if you look at passenger cars, for"},{"startTime":221.971,"endTime":226.809,"body":"instance, so if you look at General Motors"},{"startTime":221.971,"endTime":226.809,"body":"or Ford or or Toyota."},{"startTime":226.851,"endTime":227.56,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":227.644,"endTime":230.396,"body":"Passenger car established large OEMs."},{"startTime":230.897,"endTime":232.273,"body":"I think it's fair to say that"},{"startTime":233.983,"endTime":236.527,"body":"beside, you know, pushing the so-called"},{"startTime":237.82,"endTime":240.49,"body":"legacy technologies"},{"startTime":237.82,"endTime":240.49,"body":"like internal combustion engines,"},{"startTime":241.449,"endTime":244.285,"body":"the primary course of action"},{"startTime":241.449,"endTime":244.285,"body":"is certainly going to be"},{"startTime":244.369,"endTime":247.33,"body":"EVs right,"},{"startTime":244.369,"endTime":247.33,"body":"we see it everywhere in the industry."},{"startTime":247.33,"endTime":250.667,"body":"Battery electric vehicles"},{"startTime":247.33,"endTime":250.667,"body":"will play a very significant role"},{"startTime":251.084,"endTime":254.045,"body":"in that particular area, in that niche."},{"startTime":254.045,"endTime":258.007,"body":"If you expand the envelope"},{"startTime":254.045,"endTime":258.007,"body":"a little bit and look into into customers"},{"startTime":258.007,"endTime":261.01,"body":"who deal with on and off highway or maybe"},{"startTime":262.303,"endTime":264.555,"body":"construction or agricultural machines,"},{"startTime":264.889,"endTime":267.1,"body":"it becomes a completely different"},{"startTime":264.889,"endTime":267.1,"body":"equation, right?"},{"startTime":268.059,"endTime":271.562,"body":"One of my customers is one of the leading"},{"startTime":271.562,"endTime":275.316,"body":"global agricultural machine OEMs, right."},{"startTime":275.775,"endTime":278.653,"body":"And construction equipment."},{"startTime":278.653,"endTime":280.53,"body":"And they sit"},{"startTime":280.53,"endTime":284.826,"body":"at the source of renewable"},{"startTime":280.53,"endTime":284.826,"body":"liquid fuels like ethanol, for instance,"},{"startTime":284.826,"endTime":290.623,"body":"which makes a lot of sense for them"},{"startTime":284.826,"endTime":290.623,"body":"because they can have a a sustainability"},{"startTime":290.623,"endTime":295.336,"body":"cycle, you know, within their customers"},{"startTime":290.623,"endTime":295.336,"body":"where corn is being planted,"},{"startTime":296.045,"endTime":300.341,"body":"harvest it, you can turn it into ethanol"},{"startTime":296.045,"endTime":300.341,"body":"and fuel large machines with that fuel."},{"startTime":301.092,"endTime":304.595,"body":"And they're it's it's a"},{"startTime":301.092,"endTime":304.595,"body":"it's a very appealing a carbon reduction"},{"startTime":304.595,"endTime":305.638,"body":"with the right."},{"startTime":305.638,"endTime":307.932,"body":"On the other hand,"},{"startTime":305.638,"endTime":307.932,"body":"as the machines get bigger,"},{"startTime":309.851,"endTime":311.936,"body":"you cannot switch to electrification."},{"startTime":312.186,"endTime":314.564,"body":"So you need to to stay on that"},{"startTime":312.186,"endTime":314.564,"body":"liquid fuel."},{"startTime":314.772,"endTime":317.317,"body":"The smaller ones"},{"startTime":314.772,"endTime":317.317,"body":"of course, can be electrified."},{"startTime":317.65,"endTime":322.989,"body":"So they are facing a situation where"},{"startTime":317.65,"endTime":322.989,"body":"they have a bandwidth of energy sources"},{"startTime":323.364,"endTime":326.951,"body":"and and they are in the midst"},{"startTime":323.364,"endTime":326.951,"body":"of trying to figure out what is the best"},{"startTime":326.951,"endTime":328.411,"body":"for their application."},{"startTime":328.411,"endTime":333.374,"body":"And and we got to be careful here because"},{"startTime":328.411,"endTime":333.374,"body":"everybody talks about electrification,"},{"startTime":333.916,"endTime":335.918,"body":"and electrification certainly"},{"startTime":336.502,"endTime":339.213,"body":"has its its right applications, Right."},{"startTime":339.339,"endTime":340.965,"body":"No doubt about it."},{"startTime":341.049,"endTime":343.926,"body":"But but going ahead"},{"startTime":344.093,"endTime":347.889,"body":"and electrifying everything without taking"},{"startTime":344.093,"endTime":347.889,"body":"the other options into account,"},{"startTime":348.389,"endTime":351.642,"body":"first of all, is not practical"},{"startTime":348.389,"endTime":351.642,"body":"and would be short sighted."},{"startTime":351.642,"endTime":352.185,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":352.185,"endTime":356.481,"body":"And again, that brings me back to my point"},{"startTime":352.185,"endTime":356.481,"body":"that with what makes my life"},{"startTime":357.732,"endTime":361.361,"body":"in business development"},{"startTime":357.732,"endTime":361.361,"body":"so interesting and some, as I said,"},{"startTime":361.361,"endTime":365.156,"body":"are closer to the answer, already"},{"startTime":361.361,"endTime":365.156,"body":"deployed their development processes and"},{"startTime":365.198,"endTime":366.199,"body":"are well underway"},{"startTime":367.367,"endTime":370.328,"body":"with their product development"},{"startTime":367.367,"endTime":370.328,"body":"initiatives."},{"startTime":370.828,"endTime":374.165,"body":"Others ask a lot of questions"},{"startTime":370.828,"endTime":374.165,"body":"and try to figure out"},{"startTime":374.499,"endTime":377.168,"body":"where is the future taking them."},{"startTime":377.168,"endTime":379.212,"body":"So when we talk about"},{"startTime":379.545,"endTime":381.756,"body":"figuring out where somebody may or may not"},{"startTime":382.423,"endTime":384.759,"body":"should go or could go,"},{"startTime":384.759,"endTime":387.345,"body":"we do quite a bit of simulation"},{"startTime":384.759,"endTime":387.345,"body":"work at Evolve."},{"startTime":387.387,"endTime":391.516,"body":"Yeah, we pride ourselves with our own"},{"startTime":387.387,"endTime":391.516,"body":"simulation tools that we develop"},{"startTime":391.516,"endTime":392.225,"body":"in conjunction"},{"startTime":392.225,"endTime":396.062,"body":"with engineering for close correlation"},{"startTime":392.225,"endTime":396.062,"body":"between simulated and real world."},{"startTime":396.396,"endTime":397.73,"body":"All that good stuff."},{"startTime":397.73,"endTime":399.941,"body":"And we also use what we call frontloading."},{"startTime":400.691,"endTime":403.986,"body":"How much of frontloading are people doing,"},{"startTime":404.32,"endTime":408.533,"body":"your customers doing today"},{"startTime":404.32,"endTime":408.533,"body":"to develop their product, or maybe just to"},{"startTime":409.158,"endTime":413.454,"body":"get a glimpse of what would it be"},{"startTime":409.158,"endTime":413.454,"body":"if I were to go with ethanol,"},{"startTime":413.454,"endTime":416.249,"body":"if I were to go with hydrogen,"},{"startTime":413.454,"endTime":416.249,"body":"if I were to go with"},{"startTime":416.833,"endTime":419.21,"body":"or the only using front loading"},{"startTime":416.833,"endTime":419.21,"body":"or simulation"},{"startTime":419.252,"endTime":422.38,"body":"really start their development process"},{"startTime":419.252,"endTime":422.38,"body":"and take it all the way through,"},{"startTime":422.38,"endTime":426.759,"body":"or they do also use it"},{"startTime":422.38,"endTime":426.759,"body":"for kind of feasibility studies."},{"startTime":426.759,"endTime":429.887,"body":"But do those feasibility studies"},{"startTime":426.759,"endTime":429.887,"body":"that we used to do physical"},{"startTime":430.388,"endTime":433.266,"body":"and how to do it in simulation"},{"startTime":430.388,"endTime":433.266,"body":"share a little bit about that."},{"startTime":433.724,"endTime":435.059,"body":"Yeah, that's a great question."},{"startTime":435.059,"endTime":438.02,"body":"And you asked me"},{"startTime":435.059,"endTime":438.02,"body":"how much of my customers are using that."},{"startTime":438.02,"endTime":442.066,"body":"I'm saying, yes, they are using it, but"},{"startTime":438.02,"endTime":442.066,"body":"but not enough because"},{"startTime":442.066,"endTime":447.321,"body":"it's a fantastic tool to really help"},{"startTime":442.066,"endTime":447.321,"body":"filter down technology options"},{"startTime":447.655,"endTime":451.784,"body":"and also reduce overall development"},{"startTime":447.655,"endTime":451.784,"body":"time and development cost."},{"startTime":452.201,"endTime":457.54,"body":"But when you look into the power"},{"startTime":452.201,"endTime":457.54,"body":"and and the maturity level"},{"startTime":457.54,"endTime":461.085,"body":"of those simulation tools,"},{"startTime":457.54,"endTime":461.085,"body":"they are really, really impressive."},{"startTime":461.919,"endTime":463.963,"body":"I mean, maybe I'll have to have been doing"},{"startTime":465.465,"endTime":467.842,"body":"simulation tools for a long time, right?"},{"startTime":467.842,"endTime":471.762,"body":"I mean, over two decades ago"},{"startTime":467.842,"endTime":471.762,"body":"we created a department, you know,"},{"startTime":472.096,"endTime":476.559,"body":"trying to tailor specific solutions"},{"startTime":472.096,"endTime":476.559,"body":"for what we do because we felt"},{"startTime":476.559,"endTime":480.271,"body":"the commercially available off the shelf"},{"startTime":476.559,"endTime":480.271,"body":"software package for marketing."},{"startTime":480.271,"endTime":485.276,"body":"You know, what do you do with it"},{"startTime":480.271,"endTime":485.276,"body":"can go in many different directions."},{"startTime":485.276,"endTime":487.236,"body":"You can you can use it as a"},{"startTime":487.236,"endTime":491.908,"body":"as a as a as a concept study"},{"startTime":487.236,"endTime":491.908,"body":"to filter down on a very high level."},{"startTime":491.949,"endTime":492.575,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":492.825,"endTime":495.328,"body":"But you can also use it in context of"},{"startTime":497.205,"endTime":501.501,"body":"very real engineering challenges"},{"startTime":497.205,"endTime":501.501,"body":"that you face today."},{"startTime":501.501,"endTime":504.045,"body":"And what I mean with that"},{"startTime":501.501,"endTime":504.045,"body":"and I'll give you an example right,"},{"startTime":506.255,"endTime":509.842,"body":"large engine OEMs,"},{"startTime":509.842,"endTime":511.886,"body":"OEMs that that build large engine for"},{"startTime":512.929,"endTime":515.556,"body":"power generation or marine applications."},{"startTime":515.806,"endTime":519.769,"body":"So we're talking engines"},{"startTime":515.806,"endTime":519.769,"body":"that cost as much as my house,"},{"startTime":519.769,"endTime":523.105,"body":"maybe not yours, but certainly my house,"},{"startTime":519.769,"endTime":523.105,"body":"you know, that are as big"},{"startTime":523.105,"endTime":526.901,"body":"as this room, you know,"},{"startTime":523.105,"endTime":526.901,"body":"generating thousands of kilowatts an hour."},{"startTime":527.318,"endTime":530.947,"body":"Those engines need to be developed"},{"startTime":527.318,"endTime":530.947,"body":"and at some point they end up in the test"},{"startTime":530.947,"endTime":535.284,"body":"cell and running the test cell"},{"startTime":530.947,"endTime":535.284,"body":"and burn astronomical amounts of fuel."},{"startTime":535.701,"endTime":539.038,"body":"So we're talking about a three quarter"},{"startTime":535.701,"endTime":539.038,"body":"of a ton of metric ton"},{"startTime":539.038,"endTime":542.041,"body":"an hour that is just being converted"},{"startTime":543.042,"endTime":544.835,"body":"into torque and power."},{"startTime":544.835,"endTime":547.004,"body":"Now, a lot of those engines"},{"startTime":547.547,"endTime":551.467,"body":"have the sign similarities"},{"startTime":547.547,"endTime":551.467,"body":"because of the cost of the unit."},{"startTime":551.551,"endTime":555.471,"body":"Talking about the engines,"},{"startTime":551.551,"endTime":555.471,"body":"you typically don't do one specifically"},{"startTime":555.471,"endTime":559.475,"body":"for one application to a completely"},{"startTime":555.471,"endTime":559.475,"body":"one for different application."},{"startTime":559.809,"endTime":562.77,"body":"So there is some commonality"},{"startTime":559.809,"endTime":562.77,"body":"on those engines"},{"startTime":562.77,"endTime":565.856,"body":"and they need to work in different use"},{"startTime":562.77,"endTime":565.856,"body":"cases."},{"startTime":566.774,"endTime":569.443,"body":"Let's say you have one"},{"startTime":566.774,"endTime":569.443,"body":"for generating power,"},{"startTime":569.443,"endTime":571.404,"body":"the other one is in a marine vessel."},{"startTime":571.404,"endTime":574.448,"body":"But if you would fully develop"},{"startTime":574.865,"endTime":578.578,"body":"that one engine application,"},{"startTime":574.865,"endTime":578.578,"body":"meaning calibrating it on a test."},{"startTime":578.578,"endTime":582.79,"body":"So talking several months of calibration"},{"startTime":578.578,"endTime":582.79,"body":"work, I just told you they"},{"startTime":583.04,"endTime":586.252,"body":"they consume up to a metric ton"},{"startTime":583.04,"endTime":586.252,"body":"some more of fuel an hour."},{"startTime":586.627,"endTime":589.213,"body":"So you're looking at $20,000"},{"startTime":589.672,"endTime":591.966,"body":"during an eight hour working day"},{"startTime":589.672,"endTime":591.966,"body":"just in fuel."},{"startTime":592.425,"endTime":593.259,"body":"You multiply it"},{"startTime":593.259,"endTime":597.179,"body":"with several days, weeks, months,"},{"startTime":593.259,"endTime":597.179,"body":"fucking a generous amount of money."},{"startTime":597.555,"endTime":603.06,"body":"Now what one of my customers started"},{"startTime":597.555,"endTime":603.06,"body":"doing recently and we were part of that."},{"startTime":603.936,"endTime":605.855,"body":"We tried to explain, look,"},{"startTime":605.855,"endTime":609.358,"body":"if you use it or if if you approach it"},{"startTime":605.855,"endTime":609.358,"body":"differently, right."},{"startTime":609.4,"endTime":612.695,"body":"And you calibrate smarter"},{"startTime":609.4,"endTime":612.695,"body":"rather than than being in a test"},{"startTime":612.695,"endTime":615.823,"body":"so we can we can model your engine."},{"startTime":617.533,"endTime":619.41,"body":"The thermodynamic behavior,"},{"startTime":619.41,"endTime":623.164,"body":"the transient behavior from the turbo"},{"startTime":619.41,"endTime":623.164,"body":"machinery, you model your engine."},{"startTime":623.623,"endTime":626.167,"body":"We have all the activities"},{"startTime":623.623,"endTime":626.167,"body":"from that engine."},{"startTime":626.167,"endTime":628.628,"body":"We put it"},{"startTime":626.167,"endTime":628.628,"body":"what we call into a virtual test,"},{"startTime":629.587,"endTime":633.007,"body":"and then you're able to operate"},{"startTime":629.587,"endTime":633.007,"body":"that engine on that virtual test."},{"startTime":633.007,"endTime":634.383,"body":"That's to the engineer."},{"startTime":634.383,"endTime":636.01,"body":"It looks like the real interface."},{"startTime":636.01,"endTime":639.221,"body":"There is no difference"},{"startTime":636.01,"endTime":639.221,"body":"between the physical engine running in."},{"startTime":639.263,"endTime":641.515,"body":"A test. In a test"},{"startTime":639.263,"endTime":641.515,"body":"or on the virtual machine."},{"startTime":641.515,"endTime":643.601,"body":"You have your"},{"startTime":641.515,"endTime":643.601,"body":"your same measurement channels,"},{"startTime":643.601,"endTime":646.854,"body":"the screen looks the same,"},{"startTime":643.601,"endTime":646.854,"body":"and you can do a lot of work"},{"startTime":647.396,"endTime":651.817,"body":"virtually without burning"},{"startTime":647.396,"endTime":651.817,"body":"a single gallon of your right."},{"startTime":652.234,"endTime":654.987,"body":"And you can do that"},{"startTime":652.234,"endTime":654.987,"body":"at such an accuracy level,"},{"startTime":655.237,"endTime":658.991,"body":"such a maturity level,"},{"startTime":655.237,"endTime":658.991,"body":"that to put it in context,"},{"startTime":658.991,"endTime":663.537,"body":"an 80% mature calibration"},{"startTime":658.991,"endTime":663.537,"body":"can be easily developed on that meeting."},{"startTime":663.913,"endTime":665.539,"body":"So by the time you move into"},{"startTime":665.539,"endTime":669.335,"body":"the real test,"},{"startTime":665.539,"endTime":669.335,"body":"so you are already 80% there."},{"startTime":669.46,"endTime":669.96,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":669.96,"endTime":673.673,"body":"So you save a lot of time,"},{"startTime":669.96,"endTime":673.673,"body":"you save a lot of money and equally"},{"startTime":673.673,"endTime":677.051,"body":"as important,"},{"startTime":673.673,"endTime":677.051,"body":"these engines are very expensive."},{"startTime":677.051,"endTime":678.01,"body":"I mentioned, right,"},{"startTime":678.01,"endTime":681.347,"body":"you're talking half a million bucks"},{"startTime":678.01,"endTime":681.347,"body":"just in the engine cost itself."},{"startTime":682.056,"endTime":685.393,"body":"If you end up with something"},{"startTime":682.056,"endTime":685.393,"body":"that's a prototype that hasn't run before"},{"startTime":686.227,"endTime":689.438,"body":"and you make a mistake"},{"startTime":686.227,"endTime":689.438,"body":"as the calibration engineer, you can cause"},{"startTime":689.438,"endTime":692.108,"body":"serious damage to the engine."},{"startTime":689.438,"endTime":692.108,"body":"And that needs to be repaired."},{"startTime":692.108,"endTime":694.151,"body":"So you bounce"},{"startTime":692.108,"endTime":694.151,"body":"time to good replacement costs."},{"startTime":694.151,"endTime":695.403,"body":"If you do all of that"},{"startTime":695.403,"endTime":699.699,"body":"ahead of time on the TV,"},{"startTime":695.403,"endTime":699.699,"body":"you create something that is ready to run."},{"startTime":699.74,"endTime":703.869,"body":"It's it's safe, it's proven,"},{"startTime":699.74,"endTime":703.869,"body":"and it's already 80% there."},{"startTime":704.328,"endTime":707.79,"body":"So that, for instance,"},{"startTime":704.328,"endTime":707.79,"body":"is a great example on on why it makes"},{"startTime":707.79,"endTime":709.667,"body":"so much sense to front load"},{"startTime":710.918,"endTime":713.421,"body":"in order"},{"startTime":710.918,"endTime":713.421,"body":"to save money and save time to market."},{"startTime":713.754,"endTime":714.839,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":716.173,"endTime":717.466,"body":"Let's go to. Hydrogen."},{"startTime":717.466,"endTime":717.675,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":717.675,"endTime":721.721,"body":"Hydrogen has really come up, obviously,"},{"startTime":717.675,"endTime":721.721,"body":"over the last"},{"startTime":721.721,"endTime":724.14,"body":"3 to 5 years, maybe globally."},{"startTime":724.807,"endTime":727.435,"body":"The U.S., I would say over the last two"},{"startTime":724.807,"endTime":727.435,"body":"years, we've seen"},{"startTime":727.435,"endTime":729.937,"body":"an uptick in hydrogen fuel cell."},{"startTime":731.605,"endTime":734.233,"body":"But now with the IRA Inflation"},{"startTime":731.605,"endTime":734.233,"body":"Reduction Act,"},{"startTime":734.233,"endTime":737.778,"body":"it seems like we've taken another step"},{"startTime":734.233,"endTime":737.778,"body":"or we shifted another here,"},{"startTime":737.778,"endTime":740.239,"body":"if you want to say so, we're speed up"},{"startTime":737.778,"endTime":740.239,"body":"even more."},{"startTime":740.865,"endTime":743.993,"body":"We see some of your customers"},{"startTime":740.865,"endTime":743.993,"body":"making major investments,"},{"startTime":744.785,"endTime":747.371,"body":"the heavy duty truck"},{"startTime":744.785,"endTime":747.371,"body":"OEM suddenly are looking into the"},{"startTime":747.371,"endTime":750.624,"body":"and for some applications,"},{"startTime":747.371,"endTime":750.624,"body":"we're seeing stationary"},{"startTime":750.624,"endTime":754.253,"body":"power systems"},{"startTime":750.624,"endTime":754.253,"body":"starting to use that versus diesel."},{"startTime":755.087,"endTime":756.964,"body":"What do you see from your customers?"},{"startTime":756.964,"endTime":760.843,"body":"What are they looking at"},{"startTime":756.964,"endTime":760.843,"body":"when it comes to hydrogen is really driven"},{"startTime":761.385,"endTime":762.72,"body":"purely by the IRA."},{"startTime":762.72,"endTime":764.555,"body":"Is kind of the IRA push model over."},{"startTime":764.555,"endTime":766.682,"body":"You have to say, okay,"},{"startTime":764.555,"endTime":766.682,"body":"now we're going to do it."},{"startTime":766.682,"endTime":768.976,"body":"Now, this is kind of the last thing"},{"startTime":766.682,"endTime":768.976,"body":"we were waiting for."},{"startTime":769.351,"endTime":770.311,"body":"We were sort of again,"},{"startTime":770.311,"endTime":774.064,"body":"for particular applications"},{"startTime":770.311,"endTime":774.064,"body":"convinced before of chair a little bit."},{"startTime":774.064,"endTime":775.107,"body":"What you see there."},{"startTime":775.107,"endTime":780.362,"body":"Well, personally, hydrogen, I think"},{"startTime":775.107,"endTime":780.362,"body":"hydrogen is a fantastic energy carrier."},{"startTime":780.488,"endTime":782.615,"body":"Right. It's it's"},{"startTime":783.574,"endTime":786.535,"body":"it's abundantly available in the universe,"},{"startTime":783.574,"endTime":786.535,"body":"first of all."},{"startTime":786.994,"endTime":790.122,"body":"And it has fairly high in energy density."},{"startTime":790.331,"endTime":792.541,"body":"So I think hydrogen is a great energy"},{"startTime":790.331,"endTime":792.541,"body":"carrier."},{"startTime":793.334,"endTime":795.669,"body":"We're still very early in that journey"},{"startTime":795.669,"endTime":799.507,"body":"because you can use hydrogen"},{"startTime":795.669,"endTime":799.507,"body":"on a wide range of propulsion systems."},{"startTime":799.507,"endTime":802.384,"body":"And you mentioned fuel cells,"},{"startTime":799.507,"endTime":802.384,"body":"which I'm a big fan of."},{"startTime":803.177,"endTime":805.679,"body":"I said 15 years ago I think ultimately"},{"startTime":805.721,"endTime":808.724,"body":"the journey will carry us"},{"startTime":805.721,"endTime":808.724,"body":"towards the fuel cell,"},{"startTime":810.059,"endTime":813.562,"body":"which is great, by the way,"},{"startTime":810.059,"endTime":813.562,"body":"because all those electrification knowhow"},{"startTime":814.063,"endTime":815.356,"body":"that we're getting right now"},{"startTime":815.356,"endTime":818.859,"body":"on battery electric vehicles, it's"},{"startTime":815.356,"endTime":818.859,"body":"going to be directly applicable, Right?"},{"startTime":819.193,"endTime":821.904,"body":"Because we're still talking"},{"startTime":819.193,"endTime":821.904,"body":"about an electric vehicle."},{"startTime":821.904,"endTime":824.907,"body":"At the end of the day,"},{"startTime":821.904,"endTime":824.907,"body":"even if it's fuel cell powered, Right."},{"startTime":824.907,"endTime":828.327,"body":"So all the X is the E-MOTOR"},{"startTime":824.907,"endTime":828.327,"body":"is the inverters, the control strategy,"},{"startTime":828.661,"endTime":832.289,"body":"functional safety to a degree, the battery"},{"startTime":828.661,"endTime":832.289,"body":"itself, all of that will be carry over,"},{"startTime":832.998,"endTime":833.916,"body":"but the battery will sort."},{"startTime":833.916,"endTime":835.543,"body":"Of go back to a hybrid approach."},{"startTime":835.543,"endTime":839.171,"body":"It's almost almost battery"},{"startTime":835.543,"endTime":839.171,"body":"will decrease in size, which is also great"},{"startTime":839.171,"endTime":843.05,"body":"because that that has a lot of"},{"startTime":839.171,"endTime":843.05,"body":"of of sustainability concerns and recycle"},{"startTime":843.05,"endTime":844.009,"body":"concerns in itself."},{"startTime":845.177,"endTime":846.345,"body":"So that's what that's all great"},{"startTime":846.345,"endTime":851.225,"body":"or great hydrogen as an energy source"},{"startTime":846.345,"endTime":851.225,"body":"obviously can also bridge"},{"startTime":851.225,"endTime":854.353,"body":"the current technology"},{"startTime":851.225,"endTime":854.353,"body":"that we have, meaning transitioning"},{"startTime":854.895,"endTime":858.899,"body":"established internal combustion"},{"startTime":854.895,"endTime":858.899,"body":"engines, burning fossil fuels"},{"startTime":859.275,"endTime":861.735,"body":"into something"},{"startTime":859.275,"endTime":861.735,"body":"that operates carbon neutral"},{"startTime":861.735,"endTime":865.155,"body":"because hydrogen could also be used"},{"startTime":861.735,"endTime":865.155,"body":"in internal combustion"},{"startTime":865.155,"endTime":868.117,"body":"engine architectures,"},{"startTime":865.155,"endTime":868.117,"body":"as we pretty much know it today."},{"startTime":868.576,"endTime":871.537,"body":"Of course, the big challenge from hydrogen"},{"startTime":871.537,"endTime":875.082,"body":"is to get its cost effective. Right."},{"startTime":875.124,"endTime":879.211,"body":"And that's that's the nuts"},{"startTime":875.124,"endTime":879.211,"body":"that we as mankind will have to crack."},{"startTime":879.962,"endTime":883.132,"body":"But I'm pretty confident, you know,"},{"startTime":879.962,"endTime":883.132,"body":"if you look back in history,"},{"startTime":883.132,"endTime":885.384,"body":"we have come across many,"},{"startTime":883.132,"endTime":885.384,"body":"many different challenges."},{"startTime":885.426,"endTime":887.636,"body":"If you go back to engineer, I mean."},{"startTime":887.636,"endTime":889.346,"body":"That's what we are here for ultimately."},{"startTime":889.346,"endTime":890.264,"body":"Exactly."},{"startTime":890.264,"endTime":893.475,"body":"But no, I think hydrogen"},{"startTime":890.264,"endTime":893.475,"body":"is a fantastic fuel, whether it's it's"},{"startTime":893.809,"endTime":897.521,"body":"as long as it can be generated"},{"startTime":893.809,"endTime":897.521,"body":"green and sustainable."},{"startTime":897.646,"endTime":897.938,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":897.938,"endTime":901.108,"body":"And there are some interesting models,"},{"startTime":897.938,"endTime":901.108,"body":"for instance, at the coast of Chile,"},{"startTime":901.15,"endTime":904.111,"body":"right, where you have an abundance of"},{"startTime":901.15,"endTime":904.111,"body":"of wind coming in"},{"startTime":904.111,"endTime":908.073,"body":"from the Pacific Coast, Electricity"},{"startTime":904.111,"endTime":908.073,"body":"could be very, very cheap there."},{"startTime":908.073,"endTime":908.616,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":908.741,"endTime":911.785,"body":"And if you use to the Pacific nearby to"},{"startTime":911.785,"endTime":915.247,"body":"to desalinate water,"},{"startTime":911.785,"endTime":915.247,"body":"you have cheap electricity."},{"startTime":915.581,"endTime":919.293,"body":"There is a case where you should be able"},{"startTime":915.581,"endTime":919.293,"body":"to to produce hydrogen"},{"startTime":919.293,"endTime":922.755,"body":"at a much more cost"},{"startTime":919.293,"endTime":922.755,"body":"effective rate than today,"},{"startTime":923.756,"endTime":925.799,"body":"when it's ultimately super cost effective."},{"startTime":925.799,"endTime":927.968,"body":"We'll see."},{"startTime":925.799,"endTime":927.968,"body":"But it's a great energy carrier."},{"startTime":927.968,"endTime":930.763,"body":"And ultimately, I think"},{"startTime":931.055,"endTime":932.89,"body":"fuel cells will become a"},{"startTime":932.89,"endTime":937.144,"body":"a major source of energy generation"},{"startTime":932.89,"endTime":937.144,"body":"onboard board vehicles."},{"startTime":937.227,"endTime":937.603,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":937.603,"endTime":941.607,"body":"Could be generated"},{"startTime":937.603,"endTime":941.607,"body":"stationary power can be generated with a"},{"startTime":942.316,"endTime":944.652,"body":"marine is a fantastic application."},{"startTime":945.569,"endTime":948.53,"body":"Not so sure about the aeronautical world"},{"startTime":945.569,"endTime":948.53,"body":"yet, but we'll see."},{"startTime":948.906,"endTime":950.407,"body":"But the fuel cell is great."},{"startTime":950.407,"endTime":953.202,"body":"And the fuel cell in context"},{"startTime":950.407,"endTime":953.202,"body":"with hydrogen is"},{"startTime":953.744,"endTime":957.373,"body":"is a very viable solution for the future."},{"startTime":957.79,"endTime":958.582,"body":"And I'm very excited."},{"startTime":958.582,"endTime":962.836,"body":"And customers already notice"},{"startTime":958.582,"endTime":962.836,"body":"that we're getting a ton of inquiries"},{"startTime":963.295,"endTime":965.923,"body":"on fuel cell projects"},{"startTime":966.966,"endTime":970.302,"body":"for stationary power generation,"},{"startTime":966.966,"endTime":970.302,"body":"but also for mobility."},{"startTime":970.719,"endTime":973.806,"body":"We have a very interesting"},{"startTime":970.719,"endTime":973.806,"body":"fuel cell integration"},{"startTime":974.89,"endTime":979.228,"body":"project coming up where we integrate"},{"startTime":974.89,"endTime":979.228,"body":"the fuel cell into a class a truck,"},{"startTime":979.895,"endTime":983.565,"body":"which brings me back to the right fuel"},{"startTime":979.895,"endTime":983.565,"body":"for the right applications,"},{"startTime":984.024,"endTime":988.445,"body":"because at the end of the day,"},{"startTime":984.024,"endTime":988.445,"body":"some of those vehicles are just not"},{"startTime":989.238,"endTime":991.824,"body":"battery electric compatible. Right."},{"startTime":991.907,"endTime":996.078,"body":"If you're every vehicle"},{"startTime":991.907,"endTime":996.078,"body":"that needs to work hard and runs"},{"startTime":996.328,"endTime":999.915,"body":"at a high load factor"},{"startTime":996.328,"endTime":999.915,"body":"for a long time during"},{"startTime":999.915,"endTime":1003.085,"body":"the day can be battery electric"},{"startTime":999.915,"endTime":1003.085,"body":"because you would end up"},{"startTime":1003.085,"endTime":1008.173,"body":"with so much battery that the cost"},{"startTime":1003.085,"endTime":1008.173,"body":"and the weight is just not economical."},{"startTime":1008.215,"endTime":1008.799,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1008.799,"endTime":1013.095,"body":"And that's why I think for long haul"},{"startTime":1008.799,"endTime":1013.095,"body":"applications, meaning tractor trailers"},{"startTime":1013.429,"endTime":1016.306,"body":"moving load from one side of the coast"},{"startTime":1013.429,"endTime":1016.306,"body":"to the other one,"},{"startTime":1016.598,"endTime":1019.56,"body":"hydrogen"},{"startTime":1016.598,"endTime":1019.56,"body":"and fuel cells would be a fantastic"},{"startTime":1020.728,"endTime":1022.271,"body":"propulsion concept."},{"startTime":1022.271,"endTime":1024.44,"body":"Of course you have the infrastructure"},{"startTime":1022.271,"endTime":1024.44,"body":"and all of that."},{"startTime":1024.44,"endTime":1026.066,"body":"But hey, you're here to some degree."},{"startTime":1026.066,"endTime":1028.235,"body":"But but we are at the beginning"},{"startTime":1026.066,"endTime":1028.235,"body":"of a journey."},{"startTime":1028.485,"endTime":1033.198,"body":"Again, what we can agree on, we need to"},{"startTime":1028.485,"endTime":1033.198,"body":"decarbonize what is the right strategy."},{"startTime":1033.198,"endTime":1035.242,"body":"Depends on on what you need to do."},{"startTime":1036.243,"endTime":1037.578,"body":"Yeah. Okay."},{"startTime":1037.87,"endTime":1038.829,"body":"Very good."},{"startTime":1038.829,"endTime":1040.247,"body":"Thank you, Daniel, for your time."},{"startTime":1040.247,"endTime":1043.125,"body":"Many times. Thanks for having me once"},{"startTime":1040.247,"endTime":1043.125,"body":"again. Thank you so much."}]}