{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":1.625,"endTime":1.875,"body":"Hello."},{"startTime":1.875,"endTime":4.875,"body":"We want to reimagine Mobility"},{"startTime":1.875,"endTime":4.875,"body":"podcast series."},{"startTime":4.916,"endTime":8.125,"body":"I'm here with Mohammad Musa from Deepen."},{"startTime":8.208,"endTime":12.583,"body":"Thank you, Mohammad, for joining me today"},{"startTime":8.208,"endTime":12.583,"body":"on on helping me and our listeners"},{"startTime":12.583,"endTime":17.75,"body":"and viewers reimagine mobility as we look"},{"startTime":12.583,"endTime":17.75,"body":"forward in these very exciting times."},{"startTime":17.791,"endTime":20.833,"body":"Mohammad, explain what you're doing."},{"startTime":20.833,"endTime":22.666,"body":"What have you started with Deepen?"},{"startTime":22.666,"endTime":24.25,"body":"What are you guys doing?"},{"startTime":24.25,"endTime":28.0,"body":"And then let's afterwards jump right into"},{"startTime":24.25,"endTime":28.0,"body":"how you"},{"startTime":28.0,"endTime":31.25,"body":"with your technologies,"},{"startTime":28.0,"endTime":31.25,"body":"your products, help"},{"startTime":31.25,"endTime":35.083,"body":"reimagine mobility in all sorts of areas"},{"startTime":31.25,"endTime":35.083,"body":"of the mobility sector?"},{"startTime":35.208,"endTime":36.458,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"startTime":36.458,"endTime":38.375,"body":"So hello, everyone. Great to be here."},{"startTime":38.375,"endTime":40.0,"body":"Thank you. Stephan."},{"startTime":40.0,"endTime":43.708,"body":"For hosting me, I've started Deepen around"},{"startTime":40.0,"endTime":43.708,"body":"six and a half years ago"},{"startTime":43.791,"endTime":46.791,"body":"in 2017, early 2017,"},{"startTime":46.916,"endTime":51.458,"body":"looking at autonomous technologies"},{"startTime":46.916,"endTime":51.458,"body":"and specifically autonomous vehicles."},{"startTime":51.5,"endTime":56.041,"body":"And at the time we thought"},{"startTime":51.5,"endTime":56.041,"body":"that autonomy will be sold by 2020."},{"startTime":56.125,"endTime":60.208,"body":"So we were trying to be part"},{"startTime":56.125,"endTime":60.208,"body":"of that re-imagination"},{"startTime":60.208,"endTime":63.458,"body":"of mobility at scale and populating."},{"startTime":63.458,"endTime":68.5,"body":"Now it's 2023 and we're still five years"},{"startTime":63.458,"endTime":68.5,"body":"out from from autonomous mobility,"},{"startTime":68.583,"endTime":72.708,"body":"even though we have seen some good"},{"startTime":68.583,"endTime":72.708,"body":"progress, is like Cruise and Waymo"},{"startTime":72.791,"endTime":76.375,"body":"extending their operation in this go"},{"startTime":72.791,"endTime":76.375,"body":"and so on."},{"startTime":76.458,"endTime":79.375,"body":"But ultimately, as we saw"},{"startTime":79.375,"endTime":83.833,"body":"in the way of transportation and mobility,"},{"startTime":79.375,"endTime":83.833,"body":"specifically enabling"},{"startTime":83.916,"endTime":86.416,"body":"a wider segment of the population"},{"startTime":86.416,"endTime":89.666,"body":"to have mobility access"},{"startTime":86.416,"endTime":89.666,"body":"without owning the vehicle,"},{"startTime":89.75,"endTime":92.75,"body":"reducing the cost,"},{"startTime":89.75,"endTime":92.75,"body":"allowing for more access"},{"startTime":92.875,"endTime":96.333,"body":"and on on various sectors like,"},{"startTime":92.875,"endTime":96.333,"body":"you know, for example,"},{"startTime":96.458,"endTime":99.666,"body":"disabled people, that their vehicles cost"},{"startTime":96.458,"endTime":99.666,"body":"a lot more."},{"startTime":99.708,"endTime":104.25,"body":"Now with Robotaxi, you can offer them"},{"startTime":99.708,"endTime":104.25,"body":"more cost effective mobility,"},{"startTime":104.25,"endTime":108.125,"body":"even less for that segment of the"},{"startTime":104.25,"endTime":108.125,"body":"population who cannot afford a car. Now"},{"startTime":108.125,"endTime":113.333,"body":"they can get portable access to mobility"},{"startTime":108.125,"endTime":113.333,"body":"and most importantly, also safety."},{"startTime":113.416,"endTime":116.0,"body":"Given that we humans tend"},{"startTime":116.0,"endTime":120.25,"body":"to not pay alot attention on the road,"},{"startTime":120.333,"endTime":123.333,"body":"especially with the mobile phones"},{"startTime":120.333,"endTime":123.333,"body":"that our hands and so on."},{"startTime":123.333,"endTime":126.458,"body":"So the number of accidents and the safety"},{"startTime":126.458,"endTime":129.666,"body":"impact of mobility is pretty crucial."},{"startTime":129.791,"endTime":134.541,"body":"So at the mission of our company,"},{"startTime":129.791,"endTime":134.541,"body":"we wanted to enable that safer transition"},{"startTime":134.541,"endTime":138.875,"body":"to autonomous mobility"},{"startTime":134.541,"endTime":138.875,"body":"for us to realize the cost advantages,"},{"startTime":138.875,"endTime":142.666,"body":"the life savings and and the productivity"},{"startTime":138.875,"endTime":142.666,"body":"that we get out of it."},{"startTime":142.666,"endTime":144.458,"body":"I think at the heart of"},{"startTime":144.458,"endTime":148.75,"body":"of of mobility is that we as humans,"},{"startTime":144.458,"endTime":148.75,"body":"we need to be in certain places."},{"startTime":148.833,"endTime":152.25,"body":"We don't want to do a zoom"},{"startTime":148.833,"endTime":152.25,"body":"and video calls the whole time"},{"startTime":152.333,"endTime":156.875,"body":"and in order to be in those places,"},{"startTime":152.333,"endTime":156.875,"body":"it takes us a long drive to get there."},{"startTime":156.958,"endTime":161.916,"body":"We can be productive on the way"},{"startTime":156.958,"endTime":161.916,"body":"during transportation."},{"startTime":161.916,"endTime":163.541,"body":"That is nice for me."},{"startTime":163.541,"endTime":166.416,"body":"I can sleep, work,"},{"startTime":166.416,"endTime":170.541,"body":"play on my way"},{"startTime":166.416,"endTime":170.541,"body":"to wherever I'm trying to go."},{"startTime":170.625,"endTime":174.458,"body":"It's like it's like I'm an home and I'm"},{"startTime":170.625,"endTime":174.458,"body":"just getting to where I need to be."},{"startTime":174.458,"endTime":180.125,"body":"So that time savings I think is really"},{"startTime":174.458,"endTime":180.125,"body":"that's the goal that that mobility,"},{"startTime":180.208,"endTime":181.208,"body":"autonomous mobility"},{"startTime":181.208,"endTime":185.208,"body":"gives us time to do things"},{"startTime":181.208,"endTime":185.208,"body":"that we wouldn't have access to otherwise."},{"startTime":185.333,"endTime":188.333,"body":"And in that transition, being part of that"},{"startTime":188.333,"endTime":190.875,"body":"enabling that wave of transition,"},{"startTime":190.875,"endTime":196.25,"body":"we saw that there are bottlenecks"},{"startTime":190.875,"endTime":196.25,"body":"in how companies are transforming"},{"startTime":196.25,"endTime":201.5,"body":"their their vehicles"},{"startTime":196.25,"endTime":201.5,"body":"and their fleets to be more automated,"},{"startTime":201.5,"endTime":205.541,"body":"whether it's autonomous mobility"},{"startTime":201.5,"endTime":205.541,"body":"like Robotaxi, as well"},{"startTime":205.541,"endTime":210.625,"body":"as a level three or level two ADAS,"},{"startTime":205.541,"endTime":210.625,"body":"which is advanced driver assistance."},{"startTime":210.666,"endTime":214.666,"body":"And in that transformation,"},{"startTime":210.666,"endTime":214.666,"body":"whether you need more sensor types"},{"startTime":214.666,"endTime":219.583,"body":"like light hours and imaging radars"},{"startTime":214.666,"endTime":219.583,"body":"and so on, or different camera types,"},{"startTime":219.583,"endTime":223.5,"body":"different, the for example,"},{"startTime":219.583,"endTime":223.5,"body":"thermal sensors are different"},{"startTime":223.5,"endTime":228.666,"body":"that an app is a capabilities that are"},{"startTime":223.5,"endTime":228.666,"body":"that are available."},{"startTime":228.75,"endTime":231.166,"body":"How do you interpret that data and"},{"startTime":231.166,"endTime":235.0,"body":"how do you take that data"},{"startTime":231.166,"endTime":235.0,"body":"and evaluate and validate"},{"startTime":235.083,"endTime":239.166,"body":"that it's accurate, that it's performing"},{"startTime":235.083,"endTime":239.166,"body":"the way you think it could perform?"},{"startTime":239.25,"endTime":244.416,"body":"So that was our first product offerings"},{"startTime":239.25,"endTime":244.416,"body":"around data Adaptation is basically"},{"startTime":244.5,"endTime":249.291,"body":"taking the data from the sensor suite"},{"startTime":244.5,"endTime":249.291,"body":"and adding in meaning on top of it"},{"startTime":249.375,"endTime":252.208,"body":"that that processes called ground"},{"startTime":249.375,"endTime":252.208,"body":"truthing."},{"startTime":252.208,"endTime":256.5,"body":"And the way you generate ground"},{"startTime":252.208,"endTime":256.5,"body":"truth data is through adaptation, or"},{"startTime":256.5,"endTime":262.541,"body":"you annotate that data with humans as well"},{"startTime":256.5,"endTime":262.541,"body":"as looking at even some AI in the loop"},{"startTime":262.625,"endTime":265.75,"body":"to give meaning to through the light."},{"startTime":265.75,"endTime":269.125,"body":"Our data radar camera, thermal, etc."},{"startTime":269.291,"endTime":271.791,"body":"and that is required"},{"startTime":269.291,"endTime":271.791,"body":"for thousands of miles."},{"startTime":271.791,"endTime":275.208,"body":"So whenever you're trying to add"},{"startTime":271.791,"endTime":275.208,"body":"these ADAS tasks or"},{"startTime":275.291,"endTime":278.291,"body":"if ability is"},{"startTime":275.291,"endTime":278.291,"body":"you need to evaluate that perception"},{"startTime":278.375,"endTime":281.958,"body":"and if the vehicle is perceiving the world"},{"startTime":278.375,"endTime":281.958,"body":"the right way,"},{"startTime":282.041,"endTime":286.791,"body":"whether it's pedestrians,"},{"startTime":282.041,"endTime":286.791,"body":"cyclists, motorcyclists, traffic signs,"},{"startTime":286.791,"endTime":291.916,"body":"traffic lights, the animals,"},{"startTime":286.791,"endTime":291.916,"body":"you know, whatever comes in that way"},{"startTime":292.0,"endTime":295.791,"body":"at that notation"},{"startTime":292.0,"endTime":295.791,"body":"challenge is quite involved."},{"startTime":295.875,"endTime":299.291,"body":"We need to annotate a lot of data"},{"startTime":295.875,"endTime":299.291,"body":"and you need to have that."},{"startTime":299.291,"endTime":302.625,"body":"They are very highly accurate"},{"startTime":299.291,"endTime":302.625,"body":"and the like."},{"startTime":302.625,"endTime":305.625,"body":"The precision,"},{"startTime":302.625,"endTime":305.625,"body":"the level of precision around"},{"startTime":305.833,"endTime":309.958,"body":"where do you know that this as a person"},{"startTime":305.833,"endTime":309.958,"body":"like your feet is on the ground?"},{"startTime":309.958,"endTime":314.833,"body":"Where does that ground start and your feet"},{"startTime":309.958,"endTime":314.833,"body":"and then then vice versa."},{"startTime":314.833,"endTime":320.5,"body":"So that is these kind of very fine grained"},{"startTime":314.833,"endTime":320.5,"body":"pixel level accuracy at this point."},{"startTime":320.5,"endTime":321.625,"body":"You're talking about a human."},{"startTime":321.625,"endTime":325.583,"body":"At this point you are looking"},{"startTime":321.625,"endTime":325.583,"body":"at the street or the ground and so on,"},{"startTime":325.666,"endTime":328.666,"body":"and doing that in multi-modal"},{"startTime":328.875,"endTime":332.333,"body":"ability in in the light"},{"startTime":328.875,"endTime":332.333,"body":"our in the camera, in the radar"},{"startTime":332.416,"endTime":333.75,"body":"and doing that over time."},{"startTime":333.75,"endTime":339.333,"body":"So not just at a single frame"},{"startTime":333.75,"endTime":339.333,"body":"but over many, many seconds or minutes"},{"startTime":339.458,"endTime":341.208,"body":"or even hours."},{"startTime":341.208,"endTime":344.083,"body":"So that's the first segment of work."},{"startTime":344.083,"endTime":347.041,"body":"That's where where we start it"},{"startTime":344.083,"endTime":347.041,"body":"and we look at it."},{"startTime":347.041,"endTime":348.75,"body":"We want to achieve safety."},{"startTime":348.75,"endTime":350.791,"body":"You need to understand"},{"startTime":348.75,"endTime":350.791,"body":"what you're looking at"},{"startTime":350.791,"endTime":352.458,"body":"and to understand what you're looking at."},{"startTime":352.458,"endTime":356.208,"body":"You want to annotate and label the data"},{"startTime":352.458,"endTime":356.208,"body":"so we can evaluate its accuracy."},{"startTime":356.208,"endTime":358.708,"body":"That was the beginning of our work."},{"startTime":358.708,"endTime":363.666,"body":"And then as we they build a lot of data,"},{"startTime":358.708,"endTime":363.666,"body":"we discovered that it is the relationships"},{"startTime":363.666,"endTime":369.375,"body":"between the sensors was affecting"},{"startTime":363.666,"endTime":369.375,"body":"the quality of the perception."},{"startTime":369.416,"endTime":373.833,"body":"So if your camera had changed"},{"startTime":369.416,"endTime":373.833,"body":"its direction"},{"startTime":373.916,"endTime":378.458,"body":"by a small amount with respect to where"},{"startTime":373.916,"endTime":378.458,"body":"the lighter was collecting the data,"},{"startTime":378.541,"endTime":382.375,"body":"you would actually start to mis"},{"startTime":382.458,"endTime":385.166,"body":"predict or miscalculate"},{"startTime":385.166,"endTime":388.875,"body":"the location or the trajectory of objects."},{"startTime":388.958,"endTime":391.625,"body":"So if you think about, for example,"},{"startTime":391.625,"endTime":393.791,"body":"let's take a very common"},{"startTime":393.791,"endTime":397.958,"body":"and existing technology today"},{"startTime":393.791,"endTime":397.958,"body":"with emergency braking,"},{"startTime":398.041,"endTime":400.708,"body":"the radar"},{"startTime":398.041,"endTime":400.708,"body":"and the camera are working together"},{"startTime":400.708,"endTime":406.291,"body":"to estimate the distance from the object"},{"startTime":400.708,"endTime":406.291,"body":"ahead of where that vehicle's or other."},{"startTime":406.458,"endTime":411.833,"body":"So if the camera changed its calibration"},{"startTime":406.458,"endTime":411.833,"body":"or meaning like let's say"},{"startTime":411.875,"endTime":415.833,"body":"it was looking straight ahead,"},{"startTime":411.875,"endTime":415.833,"body":"the camera started to look further down,"},{"startTime":416.083,"endTime":422.291,"body":"just like degree down the calculation"},{"startTime":416.083,"endTime":422.291,"body":"of the distance from the camera only."},{"startTime":422.291,"endTime":425.708,"body":"What would differ significant, though,"},{"startTime":422.291,"endTime":425.708,"body":"maybe at smaller distances,"},{"startTime":425.708,"endTime":428.708,"body":"you're not going to see a big deviation."},{"startTime":428.916,"endTime":431.916,"body":"But if you're looking at something"},{"startTime":428.916,"endTime":431.916,"body":"that 100 meters away,"},{"startTime":431.958,"endTime":436.291,"body":"you might miss estimated by tens of meters"},{"startTime":431.958,"endTime":436.291,"body":"because of the change in calibration."},{"startTime":436.458,"endTime":440.125,"body":"So we saw that as a safety"},{"startTime":436.458,"endTime":440.125,"body":"critical component that we started"},{"startTime":440.125,"endTime":445.5,"body":"investing in our calibration suite"},{"startTime":440.125,"endTime":445.5,"body":"that detect that calibration deviation"},{"startTime":445.583,"endTime":448.75,"body":"and correct the calibration"},{"startTime":445.583,"endTime":448.75,"body":"between the difference that serves"},{"startTime":448.75,"endTime":451.75,"body":"and between the sensor and the vehicle."},{"startTime":451.875,"endTime":456.125,"body":"So think of it camera to vehicle light"},{"startTime":451.875,"endTime":456.125,"body":"our two vehicle radar, the vehicle"},{"startTime":456.208,"endTime":460.083,"body":"IMU to vehicle, all of these sensors"},{"startTime":456.208,"endTime":460.083,"body":"that you need to know"},{"startTime":460.083,"endTime":463.916,"body":"your location in the world"},{"startTime":460.083,"endTime":463.916,"body":"and what you're perceiving."},{"startTime":463.958,"endTime":468.75,"body":"So that's the second category"},{"startTime":463.958,"endTime":468.75,"body":"related to our adaptation business"},{"startTime":468.833,"endTime":471.708,"body":"and ultimately to evaluate safety."},{"startTime":471.708,"endTime":476.75,"body":"It's not just about what you're perceiving"},{"startTime":471.708,"endTime":476.75,"body":"and what your sensors are looking at."},{"startTime":476.833,"endTime":479.416,"body":"It's also about the behavior"},{"startTime":476.833,"endTime":479.416,"body":"and the decision making"},{"startTime":479.416,"endTime":481.625,"body":"that the vehicle is making."},{"startTime":481.625,"endTime":484.041,"body":"And we're not a simulation company."},{"startTime":484.041,"endTime":489.333,"body":"We're not trying to be in that a full ADAS"},{"startTime":484.041,"endTime":489.333,"body":"capability company, but"},{"startTime":489.333,"endTime":495.041,"body":"we want to enable how enable companies"},{"startTime":489.333,"endTime":495.041,"body":"to evaluate the safety of their operation."},{"startTime":495.125,"endTime":498.541,"body":"So we invested in a database"},{"startTime":495.125,"endTime":498.541,"body":"called Safety Pool."},{"startTime":498.625,"endTime":501.041,"body":"That's a database of safety scenarios."},{"startTime":501.041,"endTime":504.458,"body":"So ultimately,"},{"startTime":501.041,"endTime":504.458,"body":"when you launch a new capability"},{"startTime":504.458,"endTime":508.208,"body":"like, for example, Highway well,"},{"startTime":504.458,"endTime":508.208,"body":"the adaptive cruise control,"},{"startTime":508.208,"endTime":512.833,"body":"where it's hands off to level three,"},{"startTime":508.208,"endTime":512.833,"body":"where the driver can cannot"},{"startTime":512.833,"endTime":514.916,"body":"it can afford to not pay attention"},{"startTime":514.916,"endTime":518.708,"body":"to the road and like read"},{"startTime":514.916,"endTime":518.708,"body":"or watch a movie or something."},{"startTime":518.791,"endTime":521.083,"body":"And the car"},{"startTime":518.791,"endTime":521.083,"body":"would drive itself on the highway."},{"startTime":521.083,"endTime":524.458,"body":"So how do you know that your feature"},{"startTime":524.541,"endTime":527.25,"body":"that you're launching is safe enough,"},{"startTime":527.25,"endTime":531.666,"body":"the the process or the"},{"startTime":527.25,"endTime":531.666,"body":"the latest and greatest in the validation"},{"startTime":531.666,"endTime":536.0,"body":"verification space"},{"startTime":531.666,"endTime":536.0,"body":"is you run a lot of potential scenarios"},{"startTime":536.083,"endTime":539.791,"body":"against your sensors and against"},{"startTime":536.083,"endTime":539.791,"body":"the feature that you’ve launched to"},{"startTime":539.875,"endTime":544.0,"body":"to see if it's able to handle"},{"startTime":539.875,"endTime":544.0,"body":"all of these edge cases,"},{"startTime":544.083,"endTime":548.375,"body":"whether like, let's say a vehicle stopped"},{"startTime":544.083,"endTime":548.375,"body":"all of a sudden in front of you"},{"startTime":548.375,"endTime":551.916,"body":"or somebody cutting in front of you"},{"startTime":548.375,"endTime":551.916,"body":"or someone is coming at you"},{"startTime":551.916,"endTime":553.625,"body":"from behind really quickly."},{"startTime":553.625,"endTime":557.75,"body":"And there is a billion actually"},{"startTime":553.625,"endTime":557.75,"body":"almost infinite"},{"startTime":557.833,"endTime":560.833,"body":"permutation of things that may happen."},{"startTime":561.083,"endTime":563.75,"body":"We will never be able to count"},{"startTime":561.083,"endTime":563.75,"body":"all of them,"},{"startTime":563.75,"endTime":567.166,"body":"but we want to be able"},{"startTime":563.75,"endTime":567.166,"body":"to have a baseline to say,"},{"startTime":567.25,"endTime":570.583,"body":"where are we from a safety perspective,"},{"startTime":567.25,"endTime":570.583,"body":"from coverage"},{"startTime":570.583,"endTime":574.458,"body":"perspective"},{"startTime":570.583,"endTime":574.458,"body":"in evaluating the safety of our operation."},{"startTime":574.5,"endTime":579.041,"body":"And so with safety pool,"},{"startTime":574.5,"endTime":579.041,"body":"we're looking at enumerating"},{"startTime":579.125,"endTime":584.833,"body":"that a basic scenarios that are absolutely"},{"startTime":579.125,"endTime":584.833,"body":"your system must handle successfully"},{"startTime":584.916,"endTime":588.75,"body":"in order to say like, yes,"},{"startTime":584.916,"endTime":588.75,"body":"we think this system is safe"},{"startTime":588.75,"endTime":592.625,"body":"enough to put on the highway"},{"startTime":588.75,"endTime":592.625,"body":"or to put in an urban area."},{"startTime":592.708,"endTime":596.166,"body":"Think for level four robotaxi that that"},{"startTime":596.166,"endTime":600.125,"body":"the number of scenarios is very large,"},{"startTime":596.166,"endTime":600.125,"body":"but for level two, level three,"},{"startTime":600.208,"endTime":604.583,"body":"there is some consensus around"},{"startTime":600.208,"endTime":604.583,"body":"what's considered minimal level of safety."},{"startTime":604.708,"endTime":609.625,"body":"We have been successfully working with"},{"startTime":604.708,"endTime":609.625,"body":"University of Warwick on on that database."},{"startTime":609.708,"endTime":613.833,"body":"So just to kind of sum it up together,"},{"startTime":609.708,"endTime":613.833,"body":"we try to enable"},{"startTime":613.916,"endTime":617.25,"body":"our customers or their stakeholders"},{"startTime":613.916,"endTime":617.25,"body":"who are working on"},{"startTime":617.333,"endTime":621.208,"body":"enabling Safer ADAS"},{"startTime":617.333,"endTime":621.208,"body":"and AV to get there faster."},{"startTime":621.375,"endTime":625.25,"body":"So we help them with labeling the data"},{"startTime":621.375,"endTime":625.25,"body":"with calibrating their sensors"},{"startTime":625.25,"endTime":629.0,"body":"and then evaluating the"},{"startTime":625.25,"endTime":629.0,"body":"the safety use case"},{"startTime":629.0,"endTime":633.5,"body":"or safety story using these scenarios"},{"startTime":629.0,"endTime":633.5,"body":"from the safety database."},{"startTime":633.666,"endTime":634.208,"body":"Very good."},{"startTime":634.208,"endTime":634.541,"body":"Very good."},{"startTime":634.541,"endTime":637.333,"body":"Very good examples and explanation."},{"startTime":637.333,"endTime":638.375,"body":"Thank you, Mohammed."},{"startTime":638.375,"endTime":640.833,"body":"Maybe let's go to the annotation"},{"startTime":638.375,"endTime":640.833,"body":"for a second."},{"startTime":640.833,"endTime":645.5,"body":"Over the years"},{"startTime":640.833,"endTime":645.5,"body":"and in my organization on a global basis,"},{"startTime":645.5,"endTime":649.291,"body":"helping OEMs and tier suppliers"},{"startTime":645.5,"endTime":649.291,"body":"with their with their sensors,"},{"startTime":649.291,"endTime":652.666,"body":"with their compute platforms"},{"startTime":649.291,"endTime":652.666,"body":"and to complete ADAS"},{"startTime":652.75,"endTime":656.625,"body":"all the way up to level"},{"startTime":652.75,"endTime":656.625,"body":"two and level three type systems."},{"startTime":656.708,"endTime":659.833,"body":"Annotation obviously is a big one"},{"startTime":656.708,"endTime":659.833,"body":"because he got to look at data."},{"startTime":659.833,"endTime":661.583,"body":"We have some products"},{"startTime":659.833,"endTime":661.583,"body":"in that field as well."},{"startTime":661.583,"endTime":664.375,"body":"I know we've worked together with you"},{"startTime":661.583,"endTime":664.375,"body":"with with some of that."},{"startTime":664.375,"endTime":667.25,"body":"I hear a lot of companies advertising that"},{"startTime":667.25,"endTime":671.458,"body":"their annotation software"},{"startTime":667.25,"endTime":671.458,"body":"or their annotation services are"},{"startTime":671.541,"endTime":676.541,"body":"whatever, 90 plus or in some cases"},{"startTime":671.541,"endTime":676.541,"body":"I think you even heard 99% automated."},{"startTime":676.541,"endTime":678.583,"body":"So no human interaction."},{"startTime":678.583,"endTime":682.666,"body":"What is it that yours is"},{"startTime":678.583,"endTime":682.666,"body":"and where do you see the industry going?"},{"startTime":682.666,"endTime":685.666,"body":"Is is 100% really possible?"},{"startTime":685.666,"endTime":689.833,"body":"Is there always a need for somebody"},{"startTime":685.666,"endTime":689.833,"body":"to also look at it and take some of those"},{"startTime":689.833,"endTime":694.333,"body":"maybe cases that are hard to detect"},{"startTime":689.833,"endTime":694.333,"body":"or are as we develop A.I."},{"startTime":694.375,"endTime":697.375,"body":"and algorithms, neural networks, etc.,"},{"startTime":697.375,"endTime":700.625,"body":"are we get to a point"},{"startTime":697.375,"endTime":700.625,"body":"very soon that know all the data."},{"startTime":700.625,"endTime":702.541,"body":"I can just fit into this thing."},{"startTime":702.541,"endTime":703.916,"body":"It automatically looks at it"},{"startTime":703.916,"endTime":707.875,"body":"and outcomes what I missed, what"},{"startTime":703.916,"endTime":707.875,"body":"I need to change in my software, etc.."},{"startTime":708.083,"endTime":708.75,"body":"Yeah. Yeah."},{"startTime":708.75,"endTime":712.833,"body":"We've been living and breathing"},{"startTime":708.75,"endTime":712.833,"body":"this for, you know, six plus years."},{"startTime":712.958,"endTime":717.041,"body":"Unfortunately,"},{"startTime":712.958,"endTime":717.041,"body":"a lot of players set some very wrong"},{"startTime":717.041,"endTime":722.458,"body":"expectations around the labeling process"},{"startTime":717.041,"endTime":722.458,"body":"and how to what"},{"startTime":722.458,"endTime":726.5,"body":"extent it can be automated"},{"startTime":722.458,"endTime":726.5,"body":"and how it can be automated and so on."},{"startTime":726.583,"endTime":730.375,"body":"And I'm going to give you a very"},{"startTime":726.583,"endTime":730.375,"body":"engineering answer, which is it depends."},{"startTime":730.5,"endTime":732.208,"body":"That's an economics answer, by the way."},{"startTime":732.208,"endTime":735.125,"body":"I used to use that in my economics"},{"startTime":732.208,"endTime":735.125,"body":"class, in my MBA."},{"startTime":735.125,"endTime":738.916,"body":"It well, it depends,"},{"startTime":735.125,"endTime":738.916,"body":"you know, it is very contextual."},{"startTime":738.916,"endTime":744.458,"body":"You know, if, if you're giving me,"},{"startTime":738.916,"endTime":744.458,"body":"for example, day time."},{"startTime":744.458,"endTime":750.041,"body":"Sunny driving on a on a beautiful highway"},{"startTime":744.458,"endTime":750.041,"body":"when everybody's behaving properly."},{"startTime":750.208,"endTime":751.125,"body":"Sure, Yeah."},{"startTime":751.125,"endTime":755.625,"body":"We can automate all of the vehicle,"},{"startTime":751.125,"endTime":755.625,"body":"annotation and detections, no problem."},{"startTime":755.75,"endTime":758.75,"body":"But now the devil is in the details."},{"startTime":758.791,"endTime":761.208,"body":"You're trying to do that"},{"startTime":761.208,"endTime":766.916,"body":"same sensor suite and multiple driving"},{"startTime":761.208,"endTime":766.916,"body":"scenarios, multiple weather conditions,"},{"startTime":767.0,"endTime":769.583,"body":"and add to that maybe even"},{"startTime":769.583,"endTime":772.083,"body":"different driving behaviors"},{"startTime":772.083,"endTime":776.208,"body":"and then think of this is where"},{"startTime":772.083,"endTime":776.208,"body":"the edge cases start to come in."},{"startTime":776.208,"endTime":780.333,"body":"What if the sun is at a certain angle"},{"startTime":776.208,"endTime":780.333,"body":"with respect to the camera"},{"startTime":780.375,"endTime":783.791,"body":"and maybe it's foggy"},{"startTime":780.375,"endTime":783.791,"body":"and your or your light?"},{"startTime":783.791,"endTime":786.458,"body":"Our sensor is generating a lot of noise."},{"startTime":786.458,"endTime":791.333,"body":"You have some different materials"},{"startTime":786.458,"endTime":791.333,"body":"in the vehicles around you that is causing"},{"startTime":791.416,"endTime":794.125,"body":"reflections that are like we call it"},{"startTime":794.125,"endTime":797.708,"body":"ghost points from from radars and so on."},{"startTime":797.791,"endTime":801.125,"body":"So that's where the devil's in the details"},{"startTime":801.208,"endTime":804.458,"body":"and the level of automation."},{"startTime":804.541,"endTime":808.125,"body":"At some point,"},{"startTime":804.541,"endTime":808.125,"body":"if you want to get perfect automation,"},{"startTime":808.125,"endTime":812.125,"body":"it will actually cost"},{"startTime":808.125,"endTime":812.125,"body":"you more engineering time"},{"startTime":812.208,"endTime":816.25,"body":"to get to perfect automation"},{"startTime":812.208,"endTime":816.25,"body":"rather than to just do it manually."},{"startTime":816.333,"endTime":819.333,"body":"So so that balance between"},{"startTime":819.5,"endTime":822.875,"body":"where do you invest in automating versus"},{"startTime":822.958,"endTime":826.375,"body":"while just let's just get it done"},{"startTime":822.958,"endTime":826.375,"body":"with human in the loop"},{"startTime":826.458,"endTime":828.875,"body":"and buy in by having the right system"},{"startTime":828.875,"endTime":831.875,"body":"in place to ensure that the human input"},{"startTime":831.916,"endTime":836.416,"body":"is also not introducing no mistakes"},{"startTime":831.916,"endTime":836.416,"body":"because I can make mistakes."},{"startTime":836.416,"endTime":837.916,"body":"Humans can also make mistakes."},{"startTime":837.916,"endTime":842.25,"body":"So it's it's balancing"},{"startTime":837.916,"endTime":842.25,"body":"kind of these two two operations"},{"startTime":842.25,"endTime":845.041,"body":"and looking at the economics"},{"startTime":842.25,"endTime":845.041,"body":"while you're doing that."},{"startTime":845.041,"endTime":850.625,"body":"So ultimately with our tooling"},{"startTime":845.041,"endTime":850.625,"body":"is we say to the customer, our tools"},{"startTime":850.625,"endTime":855.458,"body":"come with some built in"},{"startTime":850.625,"endTime":855.458,"body":"AI to achieve the minimum"},{"startTime":855.541,"endTime":858.541,"body":"basics of automation."},{"startTime":858.625,"endTime":861.75,"body":"We also allow the customer"},{"startTime":858.625,"endTime":861.75,"body":"to use their own system"},{"startTime":861.916,"endTime":866.208,"body":"to help in the automation"},{"startTime":861.916,"endTime":866.208,"body":"so that because we would never collect"},{"startTime":866.208,"endTime":869.291,"body":"thousands of miles like our customers,"},{"startTime":866.208,"endTime":869.291,"body":"that's not our job."},{"startTime":869.333,"endTime":873.916,"body":"We're pooling a technology company,"},{"startTime":869.333,"endTime":873.916,"body":"but the customer has that data"},{"startTime":873.916,"endTime":876.125,"body":"and they have the AI models"},{"startTime":876.125,"endTime":881.291,"body":"that are more accurate and more capable"},{"startTime":876.125,"endTime":881.291,"body":"than what we have so they can export"},{"startTime":881.291,"endTime":885.541,"body":"the output of their into the enabling tool"},{"startTime":881.291,"endTime":885.541,"body":"and have that humans"},{"startTime":885.541,"endTime":889.708,"body":"just assist in the verification"},{"startTime":885.541,"endTime":889.708,"body":"and validation of these labels."},{"startTime":889.708,"endTime":891.833,"body":"So we allow that in our tools."},{"startTime":891.833,"endTime":895.291,"body":"And then on top of it,"},{"startTime":891.833,"endTime":895.291,"body":"we've built a significant number"},{"startTime":895.291,"endTime":901.666,"body":"of automated quality checks and validation"},{"startTime":895.291,"endTime":901.666,"body":"that looks over what the AI is doing"},{"startTime":901.666,"endTime":905.75,"body":"and what the human is doing across"},{"startTime":901.666,"endTime":905.75,"body":"multiple people, across multiple runs"},{"startTime":905.833,"endTime":909.208,"body":"and looks at heuristics"},{"startTime":905.833,"endTime":909.208,"body":"and kind of different signals"},{"startTime":909.291,"endTime":912.958,"body":"to bring all of that together"},{"startTime":909.291,"endTime":912.958,"body":"and gives you at the end"},{"startTime":913.041,"endTime":917.583,"body":"a workflow to allow you"},{"startTime":913.041,"endTime":917.583,"body":"to get a productive labeling operation."},{"startTime":917.791,"endTime":922.166,"body":"So we don't sort of"},{"startTime":917.791,"endTime":922.166,"body":"we don't force a recipe on you."},{"startTime":922.166,"endTime":926.583,"body":"You can choose any recipe that you like,"},{"startTime":922.166,"endTime":926.583,"body":"but we give you the tools,"},{"startTime":926.625,"endTime":930.0,"body":"you know, the utensils and the equipment"},{"startTime":930.083,"endTime":933.0,"body":"to cook it and cook it any way you want."},{"startTime":933.0,"endTime":936.541,"body":"But to get to the result"},{"startTime":933.0,"endTime":936.541,"body":"that that is satisfactory to you."},{"startTime":936.541,"endTime":938.416,"body":"So that's our approach."},{"startTime":938.416,"endTime":941.416,"body":"And like you said,"},{"startTime":938.416,"endTime":941.416,"body":"there are so many vendors,"},{"startTime":941.541,"endTime":946.041,"body":"some of them come at it from extreme"},{"startTime":941.541,"endTime":946.041,"body":"technical capability"},{"startTime":946.041,"endTime":949.041,"body":"where they say, Yes,"},{"startTime":946.041,"endTime":949.041,"body":"we're going to achieve extreme automation."},{"startTime":949.208,"endTime":953.583,"body":"And on the other spectrum,"},{"startTime":949.208,"endTime":953.583,"body":"you get some people who say we have"},{"startTime":953.625,"endTime":958.375,"body":"thousands of people that we can"},{"startTime":953.625,"endTime":958.375,"body":"give them to you at a very low cost."},{"startTime":958.458,"endTime":960.375,"body":"And there are ethical issues around that."},{"startTime":960.375,"endTime":964.291,"body":"And, you know, like how you treat people"},{"startTime":960.375,"endTime":964.291,"body":"and how you compensate them,"},{"startTime":964.375,"endTime":966.916,"body":"which we think is is not fair."},{"startTime":966.916,"endTime":969.375,"body":"And obviously,"},{"startTime":966.916,"endTime":969.375,"body":"like we don't want to go there."},{"startTime":969.375,"endTime":971.916,"body":"So in between like low cost labor"},{"startTime":971.916,"endTime":975.375,"body":"and full automation, where"},{"startTime":971.916,"endTime":975.375,"body":"where do you draw the line?"},{"startTime":975.375,"endTime":978.958,"body":"And we try to be"},{"startTime":975.375,"endTime":978.958,"body":"that balanced in the middle where we use"},{"startTime":979.041,"endTime":982.041,"body":"we have our own team to do the service,"},{"startTime":982.041,"endTime":986.916,"body":"we pay them market rates"},{"startTime":982.041,"endTime":986.916,"body":"where they're happy working for us."},{"startTime":986.916,"endTime":991.125,"body":"Actually, we have sponsored many marriages"},{"startTime":986.916,"endTime":991.125,"body":"enabled many marriages of"},{"startTime":991.208,"endTime":994.25,"body":"our laboring employees"},{"startTime":991.208,"endTime":994.25,"body":"because they are viewed"},{"startTime":994.25,"endTime":997.25,"body":"to have a stable job"},{"startTime":994.25,"endTime":997.25,"body":"with good income where they live,"},{"startTime":997.333,"endTime":1001.333,"body":"and also keeping the customers"},{"startTime":997.333,"endTime":1001.333,"body":"happy with the quality"},{"startTime":1001.333,"endTime":1003.875,"body":"and the level of automation"},{"startTime":1001.333,"endTime":1003.875,"body":"that we can provide."},{"startTime":1003.875,"endTime":1007.666,"body":"And I guess our biggest differentiation"},{"startTime":1003.875,"endTime":1007.666,"body":"is we're very transparent."},{"startTime":1007.75,"endTime":1012.291,"body":"We we kind of sit down with the customer"},{"startTime":1007.75,"endTime":1012.291,"body":"and we tell them"},{"startTime":1012.333,"endTime":1014.708,"body":"this is your accuracy target,"},{"startTime":1014.708,"endTime":1018.458,"body":"here's what the humans can do"},{"startTime":1014.708,"endTime":1018.458,"body":"effectively on average"},{"startTime":1018.541,"endTime":1022.25,"body":"to get to that level of accuracy"},{"startTime":1018.541,"endTime":1022.25,"body":"that you want."},{"startTime":1022.333,"endTime":1025.291,"body":"So where do you want us to invest?"},{"startTime":1025.291,"endTime":1029.833,"body":"We can obviously put more human hours"},{"startTime":1025.291,"endTime":1029.833,"body":"or we can put more engineering hours,"},{"startTime":1029.875,"endTime":1032.916,"body":"but some something has to happen"},{"startTime":1032.916,"endTime":1036.75,"body":"to get that level of accuracy at scale"},{"startTime":1032.916,"endTime":1036.75,"body":"that the customer wants."},{"startTime":1036.833,"endTime":1040.333,"body":"So if you have to a billion lines"},{"startTime":1036.833,"endTime":1040.333,"body":"that need to be annotated,"},{"startTime":1040.333,"endTime":1045.875,"body":"I think it's worth investing"},{"startTime":1040.333,"endTime":1045.875,"body":"the engineering hours to automate and help"},{"startTime":1045.875,"endTime":1050.041,"body":"bring the quality of the automation"},{"startTime":1045.875,"endTime":1050.041,"body":"much, much higher."},{"startTime":1050.125,"endTime":1053.375,"body":"But if you two kilometers"},{"startTime":1050.125,"endTime":1053.375,"body":"that you want to annotate,"},{"startTime":1053.5,"endTime":1056.791,"body":"ultimately, I think at this point"},{"startTime":1053.5,"endTime":1056.791,"body":"we might as well just do words with humans"},{"startTime":1056.791,"endTime":1061.041,"body":"and having that transparency"},{"startTime":1056.791,"endTime":1061.041,"body":"in that conversation openly with"},{"startTime":1061.125,"endTime":1065.375,"body":"with the AI engineer, with the perception"},{"startTime":1061.125,"endTime":1065.375,"body":"team, with the safety team"},{"startTime":1065.458,"endTime":1069.75,"body":"that is doing validation"},{"startTime":1065.458,"endTime":1069.75,"body":"and enabling them to have"},{"startTime":1069.833,"endTime":1074.875,"body":"just a very good understanding"},{"startTime":1069.833,"endTime":1074.875,"body":"of the trade offs from a quality"},{"startTime":1074.875,"endTime":1079.5,"body":"perspective on the engineering side"},{"startTime":1074.875,"endTime":1079.5,"body":"and on the human labor side"},{"startTime":1079.583,"endTime":1082.833,"body":"makes everyone just understand"},{"startTime":1079.583,"endTime":1082.833,"body":"there's no magic in here."},{"startTime":1082.833,"endTime":1087.291,"body":"It's just sites for that's"},{"startTime":1082.833,"endTime":1087.291,"body":"where kind of we've proven ourselves"},{"startTime":1087.416,"endTime":1091.458,"body":"and luckily we've had customers"},{"startTime":1087.416,"endTime":1091.458,"body":"that have been working with us for over"},{"startTime":1091.458,"endTime":1094.458,"body":"five years annotating their data,"},{"startTime":1094.583,"endTime":1099.375,"body":"both for training and validation purposes"},{"startTime":1094.583,"endTime":1099.375,"body":"and in Germany, in Austria"},{"startTime":1099.375,"endTime":1104.333,"body":"with the AVL team, we've had that"},{"startTime":1099.375,"endTime":1104.333,"body":"great relationship for four plus years now"},{"startTime":1104.416,"endTime":1107.958,"body":"and we continue to evolve that"},{"startTime":1104.416,"endTime":1107.958,"body":"and grow it over time."},{"startTime":1108.041,"endTime":1109.791,"body":"Yeah, very good."},{"startTime":1109.791,"endTime":1110.75,"body":"So let me ask you this."},{"startTime":1110.75,"endTime":1112.416,"body":"I mean, in the industry, right?"},{"startTime":1112.416,"endTime":1116.25,"body":"We're talking about the likes of Waymo"},{"startTime":1112.416,"endTime":1116.25,"body":"and Tesla having tons of data, doing"},{"startTime":1116.25,"endTime":1121.25,"body":"a great job with their let's"},{"startTime":1116.25,"endTime":1121.25,"body":"just call it ADAS and autonomous systems."},{"startTime":1121.25,"endTime":1124.625,"body":"And then there's there's others"},{"startTime":1121.25,"endTime":1124.625,"body":"in the world that maybe struggle"},{"startTime":1124.625,"endTime":1127.916,"body":"a little more because they maybe have less"},{"startTime":1124.625,"endTime":1127.916,"body":"real world data"},{"startTime":1128.0,"endTime":1132.583,"body":"and and and to keep ability and knowledge"},{"startTime":1128.0,"endTime":1132.583,"body":"and how to what to do with this"},{"startTime":1132.583,"endTime":1136.583,"body":"data, how to annotate and how to use it,"},{"startTime":1132.583,"endTime":1136.583,"body":"how to feed it back into their system."},{"startTime":1136.666,"endTime":1140.416,"body":"But independent of what the company is,"},{"startTime":1136.666,"endTime":1140.416,"body":"what are the ones from,"},{"startTime":1140.416,"endTime":1143.875,"body":"from your perspective that you may"},{"startTime":1140.416,"endTime":1143.875,"body":"have worked with, continue to work with"},{"startTime":1143.875,"endTime":1146.875,"body":"or are looking at it"},{"startTime":1143.875,"endTime":1146.875,"body":"from an industry perspective?"},{"startTime":1147.125,"endTime":1151.541,"body":"The ones that do a really good job of,"},{"startTime":1147.125,"endTime":1151.541,"body":"let's say, analyzing the data again,"},{"startTime":1151.541,"endTime":1155.708,"body":"annotating, reuse and changing"},{"startTime":1151.541,"endTime":1155.708,"body":"algorithms in their in their ADAS"},{"startTime":1155.708,"endTime":1159.916,"body":"algorithms are autonomous algorithms,"},{"startTime":1155.708,"endTime":1159.916,"body":"so feed it back into the vehicle."},{"startTime":1160.0,"endTime":1163.25,"body":"What are the ones that are doing"},{"startTime":1160.0,"endTime":1163.25,"body":"really good, better"},{"startTime":1163.333,"endTime":1166.708,"body":"than the ones that are not doing so good"},{"startTime":1163.333,"endTime":1166.708,"body":"without mentioning any any name,"},{"startTime":1166.708,"endTime":1172.25,"body":"Just an idea of to our listeners"},{"startTime":1166.708,"endTime":1172.25,"body":"and viewers, if you really want to do good"},{"startTime":1172.333,"endTime":1176.166,"body":"from your perspective, from deep and"},{"startTime":1172.333,"endTime":1176.166,"body":"perspective, from Mohammad's perspective,"},{"startTime":1176.166,"endTime":1179.75,"body":"what do you see they do better"},{"startTime":1176.166,"endTime":1179.75,"body":"or they do really, really well."},{"startTime":1179.833,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"Merce's Maybe what the industry in general"},{"startTime":1179.833,"endTime":1184.5,"body":"is doing, yeah, great question."},{"startTime":1184.583,"endTime":1187.583,"body":"And like you said,"},{"startTime":1184.583,"endTime":1187.583,"body":"without mentioning any names,"},{"startTime":1187.666,"endTime":1191.208,"body":"there are a pattern"},{"startTime":1187.666,"endTime":1191.208,"body":"that we seen across the board"},{"startTime":1191.208,"endTime":1195.458,"body":"working with the Japanese clients,"},{"startTime":1191.208,"endTime":1195.458,"body":"German clients, French"},{"startTime":1195.541,"endTime":1200.375,"body":"in the U.S., North America in general,"},{"startTime":1195.541,"endTime":1200.375,"body":"and even South Korea and so on."},{"startTime":1200.5,"endTime":1207.208,"body":"The ones that have invested in the quality"},{"startTime":1200.5,"endTime":1207.208,"body":"of the data get a lot higher."},{"startTime":1207.208,"endTime":1209.458,"body":"Return on investment, though."},{"startTime":1209.458,"endTime":1213.166,"body":"You want to avoid garbage in garbage outs"},{"startTime":1209.458,"endTime":1213.166,"body":"scenarios."},{"startTime":1213.25,"endTime":1217.458,"body":"And it's"},{"startTime":1213.25,"endTime":1217.458,"body":"this is like the biggest differentiator"},{"startTime":1217.458,"endTime":1220.75,"body":"is that customers who have took the time"},{"startTime":1220.833,"endTime":1224.708,"body":"to ensure"},{"startTime":1220.833,"endTime":1224.708,"body":"that their data collection is solid,"},{"startTime":1224.791,"endTime":1228.791,"body":"to ensure that the calibration is lawless."},{"startTime":1228.875,"endTime":1232.75,"body":"So you're not collecting data"},{"startTime":1228.875,"endTime":1232.75,"body":"that will be very different"},{"startTime":1232.75,"endTime":1236.083,"body":"than what"},{"startTime":1232.75,"endTime":1236.083,"body":"the your vehicle is going to operate it."},{"startTime":1236.166,"endTime":1240.375,"body":"So the more representative,"},{"startTime":1236.166,"endTime":1240.375,"body":"the data that you are collecting"},{"startTime":1240.458,"endTime":1245.291,"body":"to what the actual vehicle in production"},{"startTime":1240.458,"endTime":1245.291,"body":"will look, will look at,"},{"startTime":1245.458,"endTime":1249.708,"body":"then you will get the most benefit"},{"startTime":1245.458,"endTime":1249.708,"body":"of the effort that you're doing."},{"startTime":1249.791,"endTime":1253.625,"body":"So it's it's really around"},{"startTime":1253.708,"endTime":1257.125,"body":"avoiding this garbage"},{"startTime":1253.708,"endTime":1257.125,"body":"in, garbage out scenarios."},{"startTime":1257.208,"endTime":1259.833,"body":"And we sum it up in the Deepen"},{"startTime":1259.833,"endTime":1264.958,"body":"language is how good is the calibration,"},{"startTime":1259.833,"endTime":1264.958,"body":"how good is the localization,"},{"startTime":1265.041,"endTime":1269.541,"body":"how good is that synchronization"},{"startTime":1265.041,"endTime":1269.541,"body":"between the different sensors?"},{"startTime":1269.625,"endTime":1272.375,"body":"So those three elements"},{"startTime":1272.375,"endTime":1275.375,"body":"are really the key accuracy triggers"},{"startTime":1275.583,"endTime":1279.375,"body":"that can cause your annotation cost"},{"startTime":1275.583,"endTime":1279.375,"body":"to be much higher"},{"startTime":1279.458,"endTime":1282.0,"body":"and can cause you to collect and spend"},{"startTime":1282.0,"endTime":1285.166,"body":"a lot of money on data"},{"startTime":1282.0,"endTime":1285.166,"body":"that you're going to end up throwing away."},{"startTime":1285.25,"endTime":1289.916,"body":"So anything that enables you to reuse"},{"startTime":1285.25,"endTime":1289.916,"body":"the data is obviously"},{"startTime":1290.0,"endTime":1293.25,"body":"going to bring"},{"startTime":1290.0,"endTime":1293.25,"body":"a lot more return on investment for you."},{"startTime":1293.333,"endTime":1297.083,"body":"So if you have annotated some data,"},{"startTime":1293.333,"endTime":1297.083,"body":"you can reuse it if"},{"startTime":1297.166,"endTime":1301.291,"body":"or even if you change the sensors,"},{"startTime":1297.166,"endTime":1301.291,"body":"you can at least apply"},{"startTime":1301.375,"endTime":1306.458,"body":"some transformations to help"},{"startTime":1301.375,"endTime":1306.458,"body":"you make intelligent decisions about like,"},{"startTime":1306.541,"endTime":1310.0,"body":"why is this sensor"},{"startTime":1306.541,"endTime":1310.0,"body":"really better than this sensor"},{"startTime":1310.083,"endTime":1315.166,"body":"if you don't have if you cannot freeze"},{"startTime":1310.083,"endTime":1315.166,"body":"the variables in order to make apples"},{"startTime":1315.166,"endTime":1319.208,"body":"to apples comparison, is this LiDAR"},{"startTime":1315.166,"endTime":1319.208,"body":"really better than the LiDAR?"},{"startTime":1319.291,"endTime":1323.541,"body":"But if you collected the data differently"},{"startTime":1319.291,"endTime":1323.541,"body":"between your evaluation of LiDAR one"},{"startTime":1323.541,"endTime":1327.166,"body":"versus LiDAR two,"},{"startTime":1323.541,"endTime":1327.166,"body":"you will make wrong conclusions"},{"startTime":1327.166,"endTime":1330.166,"body":"because you don't have apples to apples"},{"startTime":1327.166,"endTime":1330.166,"body":"comparison."},{"startTime":1330.208,"endTime":1333.416,"body":"Is it"},{"startTime":1330.208,"endTime":1333.416,"body":"is it really the physics of the sensor"},{"startTime":1333.416,"endTime":1338.0,"body":"or is it the range"},{"startTime":1333.416,"endTime":1338.0,"body":"or is it the the frequency or is it the"},{"startTime":1338.0,"endTime":1341.625,"body":"like the other characteristics,"},{"startTime":1338.0,"endTime":1341.625,"body":"for example, FMC nebulizer versus"},{"startTime":1341.625,"endTime":1345.291,"body":"a flash LiDAR or a rotating LiDAR"},{"startTime":1341.625,"endTime":1345.291,"body":"and so on."},{"startTime":1345.375,"endTime":1348.375,"body":"There are pros and cons across the board."},{"startTime":1348.625,"endTime":1351.416,"body":"There is no perfect solution"},{"startTime":1351.416,"endTime":1355.708,"body":"in any in any of the sensors,"},{"startTime":1351.416,"endTime":1355.708,"body":"and the tradeoffs have to be made."},{"startTime":1355.916,"endTime":1360.208,"body":"So if you are making the right decisions"},{"startTime":1355.916,"endTime":1360.208,"body":"about those tradeoffs"},{"startTime":1360.208,"endTime":1364.5,"body":"based on the data you're collecting,"},{"startTime":1360.208,"endTime":1364.5,"body":"then you will be in."},{"startTime":1364.625,"endTime":1368.041,"body":"And they are inherently"},{"startTime":1364.625,"endTime":1368.041,"body":"making better decisions along the way."},{"startTime":1368.125,"endTime":1371.541,"body":"And that's how I would summarize it"},{"startTime":1368.125,"endTime":1371.541,"body":"with that one thing."},{"startTime":1371.625,"endTime":1373.25,"body":"Yeah, No, that's perfect."},{"startTime":1373.25,"endTime":1374.208,"body":"That's perfect."},{"startTime":1374.208,"endTime":1377.416,"body":"Two more questions for you. Want one?"},{"startTime":1377.5,"endTime":1380.166,"body":"I know you mentioned at the beginning,"},{"startTime":1377.5,"endTime":1380.166,"body":"you know, in 17"},{"startTime":1380.166,"endTime":1381.666,"body":"when you founded a company, Right."},{"startTime":1381.666,"endTime":1382.708,"body":"Excited about that."},{"startTime":1382.708,"endTime":1386.625,"body":"In 2021, we're going to drive around"},{"startTime":1382.708,"endTime":1386.625,"body":"in the autonomous vehicles."},{"startTime":1386.708,"endTime":1390.083,"body":"Here we are today and we're thinking"},{"startTime":1386.708,"endTime":1390.083,"body":"maybe in five years again, right."},{"startTime":1390.25,"endTime":1393.708,"body":"With the mindset of"},{"startTime":1390.25,"endTime":1393.708,"body":"what are you looking forward in five years"},{"startTime":1393.708,"endTime":1397.541,"body":"in a can be that maybe in five years"},{"startTime":1393.708,"endTime":1397.541,"body":"we are going to truly have"},{"startTime":1397.625,"endTime":1400.958,"body":"a more large scale"},{"startTime":1397.625,"endTime":1400.958,"body":"deployment of autonomous vehicles."},{"startTime":1401.041,"endTime":1405.166,"body":"But what specifically"},{"startTime":1401.041,"endTime":1405.166,"body":"are you looking forward to in five years?"},{"startTime":1405.166,"endTime":1408.541,"body":"What's to happen in and even in the space"},{"startTime":1405.166,"endTime":1408.541,"body":"you're working in, in the"},{"startTime":1408.625,"endTime":1413.083,"body":"AI space, annotation space,"},{"startTime":1408.625,"endTime":1413.083,"body":"different types of vehicles?"},{"startTime":1413.125,"endTime":1413.875,"body":"Does it matter?"},{"startTime":1413.875,"endTime":1416.416,"body":"Again, podcast is about mobility."},{"startTime":1416.416,"endTime":1420.833,"body":"So what is your excitement"},{"startTime":1416.416,"endTime":1420.833,"body":"going to be in in five years?"},{"startTime":1420.833,"endTime":1423.833,"body":"What are you looking forward to"},{"startTime":1420.833,"endTime":1423.833,"body":"to happening in five years?"},{"startTime":1423.916,"endTime":1424.75,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1424.75,"endTime":1427.833,"body":"The, the top of my list would be ADAS."},{"startTime":1427.833,"endTime":1432.291,"body":"I think autonomy at scale economically,"},{"startTime":1432.291,"endTime":1435.708,"body":"like what's Waymo and Cruise and Motional"},{"startTime":1432.291,"endTime":1435.708,"body":"and Zoox are doing."},{"startTime":1435.791,"endTime":1439.625,"body":"I think it's lofty"},{"startTime":1435.791,"endTime":1439.625,"body":"and we will get there at some point."},{"startTime":1439.625,"endTime":1443.666,"body":"But to make that economic meaning"},{"startTime":1439.625,"endTime":1443.666,"body":"that the cost of the vehicle,"},{"startTime":1443.666,"endTime":1448.083,"body":"the density of the operation,"},{"startTime":1443.666,"endTime":1448.083,"body":"the cost of map collection"},{"startTime":1448.083,"endTime":1451.791,"body":"and so on to make that economic,"},{"startTime":1448.083,"endTime":1451.791,"body":"I think that will take a while."},{"startTime":1451.875,"endTime":1455.625,"body":"So I'm a lot more excited"},{"startTime":1451.875,"endTime":1455.625,"body":"and hopeful in the capabilities"},{"startTime":1455.625,"endTime":1458.041,"body":"are going to come from driver assistance."},{"startTime":1458.041,"endTime":1461.666,"body":"In that it has immediate impact on safety."},{"startTime":1461.75,"endTime":1464.083,"body":"It will immediately save lives."},{"startTime":1464.083,"endTime":1467.625,"body":"It will immediately affect"},{"startTime":1464.083,"endTime":1467.625,"body":"vehicles on the road today."},{"startTime":1467.708,"endTime":1470.708,"body":"We don't have to wait 15 years"},{"startTime":1467.708,"endTime":1470.708,"body":"for that to happen."},{"startTime":1470.708,"endTime":1474.666,"body":"It will"},{"startTime":1470.708,"endTime":1474.666,"body":"it will bring benefits to the drivers"},{"startTime":1474.75,"endTime":1476.333,"body":"as well as to the OEMs,"},{"startTime":1476.333,"endTime":1480.208,"body":"because they can settle these features"},{"startTime":1476.333,"endTime":1480.208,"body":"at a slightly higher cost, hopefully"},{"startTime":1480.208,"endTime":1484.291,"body":"better margins and and bring the benefits"},{"startTime":1480.208,"endTime":1484.291,"body":"kind of to society along the way."},{"startTime":1484.5,"endTime":1487.5,"body":"Sure. Sure. That's perfect. Perfect."},{"startTime":1487.666,"endTime":1490.375,"body":"And final question for you,"},{"startTime":1487.666,"endTime":1490.375,"body":"What is the next car"},{"startTime":1490.375,"endTime":1491.958,"body":"are you going to buy and why?"},{"startTime":1491.958,"endTime":1493.75,"body":"So the next car would be electric."},{"startTime":1493.75,"endTime":1497.166,"body":"I think that we we've,"},{"startTime":1493.75,"endTime":1497.166,"body":"we've gotten to the point"},{"startTime":1497.166,"endTime":1500.875,"body":"where I am"},{"startTime":1497.166,"endTime":1500.875,"body":"I am ready to own an electric vehicle."},{"startTime":1500.958,"endTime":1502.75,"body":"Now, which brand?"},{"startTime":1502.75,"endTime":1504.916,"body":"That is still to be determined."},{"startTime":1504.916,"endTime":1508.083,"body":"I, I have been driving a Volvo"},{"startTime":1508.166,"endTime":1510.666,"body":"XD 90 for a long time."},{"startTime":1510.666,"endTime":1512.708,"body":"That is an electric version of it coming."},{"startTime":1512.708,"endTime":1518.125,"body":"It is also a number of exciting electric"},{"startTime":1512.708,"endTime":1518.125,"body":"vehicles that are SUVs that are happening."},{"startTime":1518.208,"endTime":1520.041,"body":"I think Lucid is working on gravity."},{"startTime":1520.041,"endTime":1521.958,"body":"Obviously that is Tesla model X."},{"startTime":1521.958,"endTime":1526.0,"body":"I think Volkswagen has launched"},{"startTime":1521.958,"endTime":1526.0,"body":"the ID six as well,"},{"startTime":1526.083,"endTime":1531.125,"body":"so I haven't done that quality evaluation"},{"startTime":1526.083,"endTime":1531.125,"body":"of electric SUVs just yet."},{"startTime":1531.166,"endTime":1534.125,"body":"But if you have any hints or suggestions,"},{"startTime":1531.166,"endTime":1534.125,"body":"I'd love to hear them."},{"startTime":1534.125,"endTime":1536.333,"body":"No, I mean, the problem is right."},{"startTime":1536.333,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"Every day or almost every month,"},{"startTime":1536.333,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"there is more coming out, right?"},{"startTime":1539.0,"endTime":1541.25,"body":"I mean, you have now Fisker selling cars."},{"startTime":1541.25,"endTime":1543.958,"body":"You have Vinfast"},{"startTime":1541.25,"endTime":1543.958,"body":"and now you suddenly have some of that"},{"startTime":1543.958,"endTime":1547.666,"body":"startups"},{"startTime":1543.958,"endTime":1547.666,"body":"or other newer transplants coming in."},{"startTime":1547.666,"endTime":1548.666,"body":"Certainly."},{"startTime":1548.666,"endTime":1551.458,"body":"I mean,"},{"startTime":1548.666,"endTime":1551.458,"body":"if you look at what Hyundai has done"},{"startTime":1551.458,"endTime":1555.75,"body":"in electric vehicles"},{"startTime":1551.458,"endTime":1555.75,"body":"over the last few years, very impressive."},{"startTime":1555.833,"endTime":1558.166,"body":"And then clearly the local the U.S."},{"startTime":1558.166,"endTime":1562.666,"body":"OEMs stellantis more of a global"},{"startTime":1558.166,"endTime":1562.666,"body":"or maybe more of a European OEM,"},{"startTime":1562.666,"endTime":1565.458,"body":"but clearly also bringing products"},{"startTime":1562.666,"endTime":1565.458,"body":"to the market."},{"startTime":1565.458,"endTime":1570.041,"body":"GM with a heavy onslaught of a lot of"},{"startTime":1565.458,"endTime":1570.041,"body":"different options and for doing,"},{"startTime":1570.041,"endTime":1576.0,"body":"I think, a great job with the Mach-E"},{"startTime":1570.041,"endTime":1576.0,"body":"and with the Ford Lightning pickup truck,"},{"startTime":1576.083,"endTime":1577.458,"body":"I think pretty soon you're going to"},{"startTime":1576.083,"endTime":1577.458,"body":"and it's"},{"startTime":1577.458,"endTime":1579.416,"body":"going to be more and more difficult to do."},{"startTime":1579.416,"endTime":1583.291,"body":"So maybe, maybe deep"},{"startTime":1579.416,"endTime":1583.291,"body":"needs to come up with some AI based data"},{"startTime":1583.291,"endTime":1586.875,"body":"analysis program"},{"startTime":1583.291,"endTime":1586.875,"body":"to help people buy the next electric car."},{"startTime":1586.875,"endTime":1587.5,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":1587.5,"endTime":1590.041,"body":"Maybe we're on on to some big idea."},{"startTime":1590.041,"endTime":1590.666,"body":"Hey, hey."},{"startTime":1590.666,"endTime":1592.125,"body":"Maybe we can work together on that."},{"startTime":1592.125,"endTime":1595.458,"body":"You know, Walmart,"},{"startTime":1592.125,"endTime":1595.458,"body":"thank you so much for your time."},{"startTime":1595.458,"endTime":1599.541,"body":"Great explanation on what you guys"},{"startTime":1595.458,"endTime":1599.541,"body":"are doing and how important data is"},{"startTime":1599.541,"endTime":1602.541,"body":"and how important it is"},{"startTime":1599.541,"endTime":1602.541,"body":"to have the right sensors."},{"startTime":1602.625,"endTime":1607.208,"body":"And as you so properly said,"},{"startTime":1602.625,"endTime":1607.208,"body":"it doesn't really focus on the data,"},{"startTime":1607.291,"endTime":1610.333,"body":"collect the data, analyze"},{"startTime":1607.291,"endTime":1610.333,"body":"the data, are the ones that are also"},{"startTime":1610.333,"endTime":1614.041,"body":"more successful in implementing"},{"startTime":1610.333,"endTime":1614.041,"body":"these systems are very accurate."},{"startTime":1614.125,"endTime":1618.291,"body":"Thank you so much for your time"},{"startTime":1614.125,"endTime":1618.291,"body":"and thanks everyone for tuning in."},{"startTime":1618.375,"endTime":1620.833,"body":"Thanks for listening to Reimagine"},{"startTime":1618.375,"endTime":1620.833,"body":"Mobility Podcast."},{"startTime":1620.833,"endTime":1623.416,"body":"If you like this episode,"},{"startTime":1620.833,"endTime":1623.416,"body":"please subscribe and tell a friend."}]}