{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":3.0,"endTime":5.833,"body":"Welcome to Reimagine Mobility Podcast"},{"startTime":3.0,"endTime":5.833,"body":"series."},{"startTime":5.833,"endTime":9.791,"body":"I'm here with Thomas Wallner"},{"startTime":5.833,"endTime":9.791,"body":"from Argonne National Lab."},{"startTime":9.875,"endTime":11.958,"body":"Thomas, thanks for joining us today."},{"startTime":11.958,"endTime":14.708,"body":"And thanks for together with us here."},{"startTime":14.708,"endTime":18.208,"body":"Help us reimagine mobility,"},{"startTime":14.708,"endTime":18.208,"body":"certainly with your experience"},{"startTime":18.208,"endTime":21.208,"body":"in this space"},{"startTime":18.208,"endTime":21.208,"body":"and what you guys are doing at Argonne."},{"startTime":21.375,"endTime":25.333,"body":"So maybe just start out with tell us"},{"startTime":21.375,"endTime":25.333,"body":"a little bit what your responsibility is,"},{"startTime":25.333,"endTime":28.791,"body":"but then certainly tell us what is Argonne"},{"startTime":25.333,"endTime":28.791,"body":"doing as everybody knows about our"},{"startTime":29.0,"endTime":30.916,"body":"and I think there's a lot of people in"},{"startTime":29.0,"endTime":30.916,"body":"like I don't really know"},{"startTime":30.916,"endTime":33.916,"body":"exactly what they're doing,"},{"startTime":30.916,"endTime":33.916,"body":"what their purpose is."},{"startTime":34.125,"endTime":35.416,"body":"So maybe we'll start out with that."},{"startTime":35.416,"endTime":38.416,"body":"And then let's let's jump"},{"startTime":35.416,"endTime":38.416,"body":"in to really what your purpose is"},{"startTime":38.416,"endTime":42.333,"body":"to help us all in this industry"},{"startTime":38.416,"endTime":42.333,"body":"reimagine mobility."},{"startTime":42.416,"endTime":42.791,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":42.791,"endTime":46.25,"body":"Well, first of all, thank you"},{"startTime":42.791,"endTime":46.25,"body":"for the opportunity to speak with you."},{"startTime":46.333,"endTime":50.375,"body":"I'm always excited to share"},{"startTime":46.333,"endTime":50.375,"body":"some about the work we do here at Argonne."},{"startTime":50.375,"endTime":54.166,"body":"So for those of you who don't know"},{"startTime":50.375,"endTime":54.166,"body":"Argonne National Lab,"},{"startTime":54.166,"endTime":58.916,"body":"we are a government owned, contract"},{"startTime":54.166,"endTime":58.916,"body":"operated facility outside of Chicago."},{"startTime":58.958,"endTime":60.666,"body":"About 3500 employees."},{"startTime":60.666,"endTime":65.541,"body":"And we have an Applied Energy"},{"startTime":60.666,"endTime":65.541,"body":"Technologies Directorate"},{"startTime":65.625,"endTime":69.375,"body":"that specifically focused,"},{"startTime":65.625,"endTime":69.375,"body":"as the title suggests, on addressing"},{"startTime":69.375,"endTime":73.041,"body":"some of the challenges"},{"startTime":69.375,"endTime":73.041,"body":"we have on the engineering side."},{"startTime":73.125,"endTime":78.208,"body":"Our main focus is really to help with"},{"startTime":73.125,"endTime":78.208,"body":"the transition to a decarbonized economy."},{"startTime":78.291,"endTime":80.958,"body":"And in my division,"},{"startTime":78.291,"endTime":80.958,"body":"which is the Transportation"},{"startTime":80.958,"endTime":84.583,"body":"and Power Systems"},{"startTime":80.958,"endTime":84.583,"body":"division, our focus is really on anything"},{"startTime":84.583,"endTime":89.583,"body":"related to mobility, moving people,"},{"startTime":84.583,"endTime":89.583,"body":"moving goods, and also in terms of"},{"startTime":89.583,"endTime":93.375,"body":"how we potentially generate electricity"},{"startTime":89.583,"endTime":93.375,"body":"or how else could we store that"},{"startTime":93.375,"endTime":97.333,"body":"electricity to then eventually use it"},{"startTime":93.375,"endTime":97.333,"body":"for mobility applications."},{"startTime":97.333,"endTime":99.208,"body":"So it's a pretty broad portfolio."},{"startTime":99.208,"endTime":102.083,"body":"The team here is about 140 people."},{"startTime":102.083,"endTime":105.083,"body":"We have sizable experimental facilities"},{"startTime":105.208,"endTime":108.625,"body":"for vehicle testing, component testing."},{"startTime":108.708,"endTime":112.666,"body":"They go hand in hand with simulation"},{"startTime":108.708,"endTime":112.666,"body":"activities that we have here"},{"startTime":112.916,"endTime":117.041,"body":"where we simulate everything"},{"startTime":112.916,"endTime":117.041,"body":"from the component to the system level"},{"startTime":117.125,"endTime":121.333,"body":"and then even on the regional level,"},{"startTime":117.125,"endTime":121.333,"body":"we have an agent based simulation tool"},{"startTime":121.333,"endTime":126.25,"body":"that simulates, for example,"},{"startTime":121.333,"endTime":126.25,"body":"the entire Chicago regional area."},{"startTime":126.333,"endTime":130.583,"body":"One aspect that's probably also unique"},{"startTime":126.333,"endTime":130.583,"body":"for us here at Argonne"},{"startTime":130.666,"endTime":134.625,"body":"is we have traditionally been engaged"},{"startTime":130.666,"endTime":134.625,"body":"in workforce development."},{"startTime":134.666,"endTime":139.375,"body":"We have a student competition that's quite"},{"startTime":134.666,"endTime":139.375,"body":"well established that Argonne"},{"startTime":139.375,"endTime":142.916,"body":"has been managing for Department of Energy"},{"startTime":139.375,"endTime":142.916,"body":"for probably 30 years."},{"startTime":142.958,"endTime":145.75,"body":"And so we also try to bridge this gap"},{"startTime":145.75,"endTime":149.833,"body":"as we transition into this new"},{"startTime":145.75,"endTime":149.833,"body":"electrified reality."},{"startTime":149.833,"endTime":153.75,"body":"How can we help transition the workforce"},{"startTime":149.833,"endTime":153.75,"body":"to have new opportunities"},{"startTime":153.75,"endTime":155.541,"body":"in that space as well?"},{"startTime":155.541,"endTime":157.458,"body":"Very good. Thank you. Perfect."},{"startTime":157.458,"endTime":158.708,"body":"So let's let's jump right in."},{"startTime":158.708,"endTime":161.666,"body":"It's like within the year,"},{"startTime":158.708,"endTime":161.666,"body":"everybody in the U.S."},{"startTime":161.666,"endTime":165.083,"body":"and globally also talks about the IRA"},{"startTime":161.666,"endTime":165.083,"body":"irony Inflation Reduction"},{"startTime":165.083,"endTime":168.125,"body":"Act, where"},{"startTime":165.083,"endTime":168.125,"body":"a lot of some of the things you touched"},{"startTime":168.166,"endTime":172.125,"body":"upon has come in, certainly"},{"startTime":168.166,"endTime":172.125,"body":"maybe more on the manufacturing side."},{"startTime":172.208,"endTime":176.416,"body":"But as of late, we're now"},{"startTime":172.208,"endTime":176.416,"body":"also talking about how do we get the let's"},{"startTime":176.416,"endTime":180.75,"body":"call it the users of this new energy,"},{"startTime":176.416,"endTime":180.75,"body":"hydrogen battery."},{"startTime":180.75,"endTime":182.583,"body":"Electric vehicles also encourage"},{"startTime":182.583,"endTime":185.583,"body":"not necessarily the manufacturer,"},{"startTime":182.583,"endTime":185.583,"body":"but also the users."},{"startTime":185.625,"endTime":187.75,"body":"Where is Argonne involved with this?"},{"startTime":187.75,"endTime":190.75,"body":"I mean, how do you help"},{"startTime":187.75,"endTime":190.75,"body":"not only the manufacturing"},{"startTime":190.75,"endTime":194.583,"body":"side of batteries, fuel cells,"},{"startTime":194.583,"endTime":199.333,"body":"hydrogen generation, but also"},{"startTime":194.583,"endTime":199.333,"body":"then the user side to really adopt it"},{"startTime":199.333,"endTime":204.041,"body":"and make consumers like like us"},{"startTime":199.333,"endTime":204.041,"body":"drive these types of vehicles?"},{"startTime":204.041,"endTime":208.083,"body":"And what do you see"},{"startTime":204.041,"endTime":208.083,"body":"how you help with that transition?"},{"startTime":208.166,"endTime":212.125,"body":"So I think we're quite broadly involved"},{"startTime":208.166,"endTime":212.125,"body":"in this, as you suggested."},{"startTime":212.125,"endTime":215.833,"body":"It starts really on the fundamental side"},{"startTime":212.125,"endTime":215.833,"body":"where we have traditionally done"},{"startTime":215.833,"endTime":221.25,"body":"a lot of research on the technical"},{"startTime":215.833,"endTime":221.25,"body":"solutions, and those include"},{"startTime":221.25,"endTime":225.375,"body":"electrified powertrains for light duty,"},{"startTime":221.25,"endTime":225.375,"body":"medium and heavy duty vehicles."},{"startTime":225.458,"endTime":229.75,"body":"Nowadays we're working more on even"},{"startTime":229.75,"endTime":233.666,"body":"decarbonizing rail, marine aviation"},{"startTime":229.75,"endTime":233.666,"body":"and some of those other modes."},{"startTime":233.75,"endTime":236.0,"body":"So that's more of the technical solution"},{"startTime":233.75,"endTime":236.0,"body":"side."},{"startTime":236.0,"endTime":239.791,"body":"We've also have a very large footprint"},{"startTime":236.0,"endTime":239.791,"body":"in the analysis side."},{"startTime":239.791,"endTime":243.958,"body":"Already spoke about the simulation"},{"startTime":239.791,"endTime":243.958,"body":"that in some cases goes hand in hand"},{"startTime":243.958,"endTime":245.583,"body":"with the component development."},{"startTime":245.583,"endTime":250.416,"body":"But we also do analysis,"},{"startTime":245.583,"endTime":250.416,"body":"as you mentioned, for example, IRA,"},{"startTime":250.625,"endTime":256.625,"body":"we are doing an analysis in terms of"},{"startTime":250.625,"endTime":256.625,"body":"what are some of the financial incentives."},{"startTime":256.625,"endTime":261.208,"body":"We also do work with the Joint Office"},{"startTime":256.625,"endTime":261.208,"body":"of Energy and Transportation."},{"startTime":261.416,"endTime":265.458,"body":"When you think about the rollout"},{"startTime":261.416,"endTime":265.458,"body":"of electric vehicle charging stations"},{"startTime":265.541,"endTime":270.041,"body":"and considerations as to"},{"startTime":265.541,"endTime":270.041,"body":"what might be an appropriate location"},{"startTime":270.166,"endTime":275.25,"body":"based on technical requirements, based on"},{"startTime":270.166,"endTime":275.25,"body":"maybe available great infrastructure,"},{"startTime":275.25,"endTime":280.0,"body":"but certainly also always with an eye"},{"startTime":275.25,"endTime":280.0,"body":"on environmental justice and equity."},{"startTime":280.208,"endTime":284.5,"body":"So we have a separate team"},{"startTime":280.208,"endTime":284.5,"body":"outside of my division that specific looks"},{"startTime":284.5,"endTime":288.291,"body":"at those aspects to make sure that that"},{"startTime":284.5,"endTime":288.291,"body":"that rollout of an electric"},{"startTime":288.291,"endTime":292.041,"body":"infrastructure is equitable"},{"startTime":288.291,"endTime":292.041,"body":"for the entire society."},{"startTime":292.125,"endTime":293.083,"body":"Interesting."},{"startTime":293.083,"endTime":296.875,"body":"So let's stay for a moment with the"},{"startTime":293.083,"endTime":296.875,"body":"electrical charging infrastructure."},{"startTime":296.875,"endTime":301.583,"body":"I'm a new proud owner of a first electric"},{"startTime":296.875,"endTime":301.583,"body":"vehicle for the family,"},{"startTime":301.666,"endTime":305.666,"body":"and I think at least between my wife"},{"startTime":301.666,"endTime":305.666,"body":"and I, we were a little bit worried."},{"startTime":305.666,"endTime":309.291,"body":"Our unsure about different things"},{"startTime":305.666,"endTime":309.291,"body":"about owning"},{"startTime":309.333,"endTime":313.25,"body":"electric vehicle charging"},{"startTime":309.333,"endTime":313.25,"body":"certainly is the common denominator."},{"startTime":313.333,"endTime":317.916,"body":"What do you see as the next step"},{"startTime":313.333,"endTime":317.916,"body":"that we as a as a nation or maybe U.S."},{"startTime":317.916,"endTime":318.583,"body":"are gone?"},{"startTime":318.583,"endTime":323.125,"body":"Are we as from the supply side"},{"startTime":318.583,"endTime":323.125,"body":"or maybe we should be take"},{"startTime":323.125,"endTime":327.583,"body":"and or should be more focused on"},{"startTime":323.125,"endTime":327.583,"body":"to overcome some of that hesitation?"},{"startTime":327.583,"endTime":331.625,"body":"And again, the reason I'm bringing it up"},{"startTime":327.583,"endTime":331.625,"body":"is I've been working in this space for ten"},{"startTime":331.625,"endTime":335.916,"body":"plus years, yet"},{"startTime":331.625,"endTime":335.916,"body":"I consider myself very similar"},{"startTime":335.916,"endTime":341.0,"body":"to maybe non automotive"},{"startTime":335.916,"endTime":341.0,"body":"or automotive technology based people"},{"startTime":341.083,"endTime":345.041,"body":"that also have maybe even larger concerns"},{"startTime":341.083,"endTime":345.041,"body":"because we're not constantly hearing"},{"startTime":345.041,"endTime":346.958,"body":"what's going on"},{"startTime":345.041,"endTime":346.958,"body":"and what other people are doing."},{"startTime":346.958,"endTime":348.541,"body":"So what do you see"},{"startTime":348.541,"endTime":352.833,"body":"and what is the government"},{"startTime":348.541,"endTime":352.833,"body":"sort of tasking you guys with, with doing?"},{"startTime":352.916,"endTime":355.25,"body":"Well, first of all, congratulations"},{"startTime":352.916,"endTime":355.25,"body":"for taking that big step"},{"startTime":355.25,"endTime":357.083,"body":"of having an electric vehicle"},{"startTime":355.25,"endTime":357.083,"body":"in your fleet."},{"startTime":357.083,"endTime":361.041,"body":"My family also has an electric car,"},{"startTime":357.083,"endTime":361.041,"body":"and I agree"},{"startTime":361.041,"endTime":364.333,"body":"that at first"},{"startTime":361.041,"endTime":364.333,"body":"a transition might seem scary."},{"startTime":364.333,"endTime":368.083,"body":"Intimidating because you hear about"},{"startTime":364.333,"endTime":368.083,"body":"a range anxiety as one of the examples"},{"startTime":368.166,"endTime":372.875,"body":"where Argonne is specifically involved"},{"startTime":368.166,"endTime":372.875,"body":"in here are there is various aspects."},{"startTime":372.875,"endTime":377.416,"body":"One very important aspect"},{"startTime":372.875,"endTime":377.416,"body":"right now is reliability of charging,"},{"startTime":377.5,"endTime":380.5,"body":"especially when it comes to DC,"},{"startTime":377.5,"endTime":380.5,"body":"fast charging."},{"startTime":380.666,"endTime":383.75,"body":"There is information out there"},{"startTime":380.666,"endTime":383.75,"body":"and depending on which source"},{"startTime":383.75,"endTime":387.25,"body":"you want to believe,"},{"startTime":383.75,"endTime":387.25,"body":"there is a significant fraction"},{"startTime":387.25,"endTime":391.791,"body":"of the attempted electric vehicle"},{"startTime":387.25,"endTime":391.791,"body":"charging events that are unsuccessful."},{"startTime":391.875,"endTime":395.125,"body":"And I always remind"},{"startTime":395.166,"endTime":396.541,"body":"everyone in that conversation"},{"startTime":396.541,"endTime":400.75,"body":"that the benchmark that we come from"},{"startTime":396.541,"endTime":400.75,"body":"is conventional vehicles."},{"startTime":400.958,"endTime":404.833,"body":"And do you remember the last time"},{"startTime":400.958,"endTime":404.833,"body":"you went to a gas station and left"},{"startTime":404.833,"endTime":406.166,"body":"without gasoline?"},{"startTime":406.166,"endTime":407.5,"body":"I honestly don't know."},{"startTime":407.5,"endTime":408.708,"body":"The success rate"},{"startTime":408.708,"endTime":411.708,"body":"in terms of refueling is very high,"},{"startTime":408.708,"endTime":411.708,"body":"and that's the benchmark"},{"startTime":411.708,"endTime":414.25,"body":"we have to consider when we think"},{"startTime":411.708,"endTime":414.25,"body":"of electric vehicle charging."},{"startTime":414.25,"endTime":418.0,"body":"That's what we strive towards and that's"},{"startTime":414.25,"endTime":418.0,"body":"a major focus for that joint officer,"},{"startTime":418.0,"endTime":422.583,"body":"as I mentioned, and our teams"},{"startTime":418.0,"endTime":422.583,"body":"here in the grid integration technology"},{"startTime":422.583,"endTime":427.0,"body":"side are heavily involved in the standards"},{"startTime":422.583,"endTime":427.0,"body":"based"},{"startTime":427.083,"endTime":430.333,"body":"communication between vehicle"},{"startTime":427.083,"endTime":430.333,"body":"and the charger, the standard six days."},{"startTime":430.333,"endTime":435.041,"body":"But there is certainly a lot of work to do"},{"startTime":430.333,"endTime":435.041,"body":"in terms of developing performance"},{"startTime":435.041,"endTime":438.583,"body":"indicators,"},{"startTime":435.041,"endTime":438.583,"body":"refining the standards to ensure that"},{"startTime":438.791,"endTime":442.458,"body":"this expectation that the consumer has in"},{"startTime":438.791,"endTime":442.458,"body":"terms of success rate"},{"startTime":442.666,"endTime":445.625,"body":"is something that we that we can meet."},{"startTime":445.625,"endTime":451.708,"body":"Another important"},{"startTime":445.625,"endTime":451.708,"body":"aspect outside of DC charging, which"},{"startTime":451.791,"endTime":452.5,"body":"in an ideal"},{"startTime":452.5,"endTime":456.333,"body":"electrified future"},{"startTime":452.5,"endTime":456.333,"body":"would be not the norm for everyone."},{"startTime":456.5,"endTime":460.583,"body":"We can suggest that every charging event"},{"startTime":456.5,"endTime":460.583,"body":"is a DC charging event."},{"startTime":460.666,"endTime":464.083,"body":"Predominantly vehicles"},{"startTime":460.666,"endTime":464.083,"body":"should be AC charged at home, at a"},{"startTime":464.083,"endTime":468.083,"body":"workplace or elsewhere where you might be"},{"startTime":464.083,"endTime":468.083,"body":"dwelling for an extended period of time."},{"startTime":468.166,"endTime":470.916,"body":"And what's important"},{"startTime":468.166,"endTime":470.916,"body":"there is that we consider"},{"startTime":470.916,"endTime":475.458,"body":"how do we reach the entire population"},{"startTime":470.916,"endTime":475.458,"body":"with AC charging?"},{"startTime":475.541,"endTime":478.541,"body":"You and I are probably fortunate"},{"startTime":475.541,"endTime":478.541,"body":"that we have dedicated"},{"startTime":478.541,"endTime":481.541,"body":"parking"},{"startTime":478.541,"endTime":481.541,"body":"where we have EV charging available,"},{"startTime":481.75,"endTime":484.75,"body":"but that is only true"},{"startTime":481.75,"endTime":484.75,"body":"for about half the population."},{"startTime":484.875,"endTime":488.625,"body":"So how do we ensure equitable charging for"},{"startTime":484.875,"endTime":488.625,"body":"for people"},{"startTime":488.625,"endTime":490.458,"body":"that don't have a dedicated parking spot?"},{"startTime":490.458,"endTime":494.416,"body":"So there is some interesting conversations"},{"startTime":490.458,"endTime":494.416,"body":"going on with with curbside"},{"startTime":494.416,"endTime":498.583,"body":"charging as one example,"},{"startTime":494.416,"endTime":498.583,"body":"or other opportunities"},{"startTime":498.666,"endTime":501.375,"body":"on how to ensure that"},{"startTime":501.375,"endTime":505.166,"body":"people have access to charging"},{"startTime":501.375,"endTime":505.166,"body":"when they need it."},{"startTime":505.25,"endTime":508.5,"body":"Another very important factor is really"},{"startTime":508.541,"endTime":512.375,"body":"changing, almost like a paradigm"},{"startTime":512.375,"endTime":516.166,"body":"shift in terms of how we think about"},{"startTime":512.375,"endTime":516.166,"body":"refueling versus recharging."},{"startTime":516.166,"endTime":517.708,"body":"Right? It sounds so similar."},{"startTime":517.708,"endTime":520.708,"body":"So the initial anticipation"},{"startTime":517.708,"endTime":520.708,"body":"is, well, it's the same thing."},{"startTime":520.75,"endTime":523.416,"body":"When my tank is empty,"},{"startTime":520.75,"endTime":523.416,"body":"I go to the gas station."},{"startTime":523.416,"endTime":527.416,"body":"When my electric vehicle"},{"startTime":523.416,"endTime":527.416,"body":"is low on charge, I'll go and recharge."},{"startTime":527.416,"endTime":531.208,"body":"But in reality,"},{"startTime":527.416,"endTime":531.208,"body":"because of the distributed charging"},{"startTime":531.375,"endTime":534.625,"body":"that we're advocating for,"},{"startTime":531.375,"endTime":534.625,"body":"that might not be the case."},{"startTime":534.625,"endTime":539.666,"body":"And your vehicle during regular operation"},{"startTime":534.625,"endTime":539.666,"body":"might never drop below least,"},{"startTime":539.75,"endTime":542.791,"body":"let's say 50% say to charge,"},{"startTime":539.75,"endTime":542.791,"body":"because maybe your daily driving"},{"startTime":542.791,"endTime":547.416,"body":"is such that you plug in at night"},{"startTime":542.791,"endTime":547.416,"body":"and you always top off the vehicle."},{"startTime":547.5,"endTime":551.625,"body":"There's another important factor"},{"startTime":547.5,"endTime":551.625,"body":"when you consider that, because right now"},{"startTime":551.625,"endTime":553.958,"body":"we're very concerned"},{"startTime":551.625,"endTime":553.958,"body":"about electric vehicles"},{"startTime":553.958,"endTime":558.208,"body":"as an additional drag on the grid,"},{"startTime":553.958,"endTime":558.208,"body":"which could be a concern."},{"startTime":558.291,"endTime":562.5,"body":"But if we think of a future"},{"startTime":558.291,"endTime":562.5,"body":"where electric vehicles are connected"},{"startTime":562.5,"endTime":566.541,"body":"to the grid, whether they need to charge"},{"startTime":562.5,"endTime":566.541,"body":"at this point in time or not,"},{"startTime":566.625,"endTime":570.416,"body":"then all those distributed batteries"},{"startTime":566.625,"endTime":570.416,"body":"could be leveraged as a resource"},{"startTime":570.625,"endTime":574.041,"body":"and it might be able to actually help"},{"startTime":570.625,"endTime":574.041,"body":"stabilize, degrade and provide services."},{"startTime":574.125,"endTime":578.541,"body":"So those are some of the areas"},{"startTime":574.125,"endTime":578.541,"body":"we're looking into at a high level."},{"startTime":578.541,"endTime":583.416,"body":"That all sounds great, but you can imagine"},{"startTime":578.541,"endTime":583.416,"body":"that there is a lot of details"},{"startTime":583.416,"endTime":587.5,"body":"that need to be worked out, questions"},{"startTime":583.416,"endTime":587.5,"body":"in terms of warranty,"},{"startTime":587.583,"endTime":591.541,"body":"warranty, revenue sharing,"},{"startTime":587.583,"endTime":591.541,"body":"what are the communication standards?"},{"startTime":591.625,"endTime":596.541,"body":"Those are all topics that we"},{"startTime":591.625,"endTime":596.541,"body":"our team is involved with, with partners"},{"startTime":596.541,"endTime":599.083,"body":"at other national laboratories"},{"startTime":596.541,"endTime":599.083,"body":"and in industry."},{"startTime":599.083,"endTime":601.333,"body":"Interesting. Very interesting."},{"startTime":601.333,"endTime":603.833,"body":"You alluded, Thomas,"},{"startTime":601.333,"endTime":603.833,"body":"at the beginning a little bit"},{"startTime":603.833,"endTime":606.916,"body":"that you're not just doing"},{"startTime":603.833,"endTime":606.916,"body":"passenger vehicles and heavy duty truck."},{"startTime":606.916,"endTime":607.125,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":607.125,"endTime":610.125,"body":"But you mentioned rail, you talked Marine."},{"startTime":610.125,"endTime":613.416,"body":"I assume maybe EVTOLs"},{"startTime":610.125,"endTime":613.416,"body":"or electrical airplanes,"},{"startTime":613.416,"endTime":615.958,"body":"Maybe this is something you're involved"},{"startTime":613.416,"endTime":615.958,"body":"as well."},{"startTime":615.958,"endTime":618.958,"body":"Share a little bit there,"},{"startTime":615.958,"endTime":618.958,"body":"because I think that is sort of the"},{"startTime":618.958,"endTime":621.666,"body":"the next frontier"},{"startTime":618.958,"endTime":621.666,"body":"now that is sort of, in my opinion,"},{"startTime":621.666,"endTime":626.875,"body":"at least adopt a electromobility"},{"startTime":621.666,"endTime":626.875,"body":"or electrification push."},{"startTime":626.916,"endTime":629.25,"body":"And then certainly they are also"},{"startTime":629.333,"endTime":630.791,"body":"with other industries as well."},{"startTime":630.791,"endTime":633.791,"body":"Certainly heavy duty"},{"startTime":630.791,"endTime":633.791,"body":"did the hydrogen or fuel cell base,"},{"startTime":633.875,"endTime":637.458,"body":"but share a little bit about those"},{"startTime":633.875,"endTime":637.458,"body":"industry maybe again, outside of what"},{"startTime":637.541,"endTime":641.708,"body":"you and I see on a daily basis,"},{"startTime":637.541,"endTime":641.708,"body":"which is medium and heavy duty trucks"},{"startTime":641.708,"endTime":643.583,"body":"and obviously the personal vehicles"},{"startTime":641.708,"endTime":643.583,"body":"we drive,"},{"startTime":643.583,"endTime":646.583,"body":"what are those in these"},{"startTime":643.583,"endTime":646.583,"body":"almost other industries doing right,"},{"startTime":646.583,"endTime":651.333,"body":"construction, marine rail, etc.?"},{"startTime":651.416,"endTime":655.833,"body":"Yes. So historically, there was a lot of"},{"startTime":651.416,"endTime":655.833,"body":"focus on light duty vehicles."},{"startTime":656.0,"endTime":658.875,"body":"The main reason is an obvious one"},{"startTime":656.0,"endTime":658.875,"body":"that a majority"},{"startTime":658.875,"endTime":662.625,"body":"of the energy consumed for transportation"},{"startTime":658.875,"endTime":662.625,"body":"is in the light duty sector."},{"startTime":662.708,"endTime":666.166,"body":"But for light duty,"},{"startTime":662.708,"endTime":666.166,"body":"we with electrification,"},{"startTime":666.166,"endTime":671.666,"body":"we have a very workable solution"},{"startTime":666.166,"endTime":671.666,"body":"as we see with significant uptake"},{"startTime":671.708,"endTime":674.5,"body":"in terms of electric vehicles"},{"startTime":671.708,"endTime":674.5,"body":"in the market."},{"startTime":674.5,"endTime":680.125,"body":"As we look at applications"},{"startTime":674.5,"endTime":680.125,"body":"that are higher in power,"},{"startTime":680.166,"endTime":681.041,"body":"longer daily"},{"startTime":681.041,"endTime":684.041,"body":"driving or just higher energy"},{"startTime":681.041,"endTime":684.041,"body":"density requirements,"},{"startTime":684.166,"endTime":688.625,"body":"the all electric option"},{"startTime":684.166,"endTime":688.625,"body":"might not be the ideal option."},{"startTime":688.875,"endTime":694.458,"body":"So the there was a"},{"startTime":688.875,"endTime":694.458,"body":"release of a decarbonization roadmap"},{"startTime":694.458,"endTime":697.625,"body":"from the US government fairly recently,"},{"startTime":694.458,"endTime":697.625,"body":"but it really laid that out"},{"startTime":697.625,"endTime":701.458,"body":"quite well in terms of"},{"startTime":697.625,"endTime":701.458,"body":"what are the options we should consider."},{"startTime":701.458,"endTime":704.791,"body":"And you spoke about medium"},{"startTime":701.458,"endTime":704.791,"body":"heavy duty trucking, right?"},{"startTime":704.791,"endTime":708.333,"body":"Electrification might be the right answer"},{"startTime":704.791,"endTime":708.333,"body":"for some of those locations."},{"startTime":708.583,"endTime":713.583,"body":"If we think of of long haul trucking,"},{"startTime":708.583,"endTime":713.583,"body":"maybe there is other options"},{"startTime":713.583,"endTime":716.583,"body":"we need to look into like hydrogen"},{"startTime":713.583,"endTime":716.583,"body":"and fuel cells."},{"startTime":716.666,"endTime":722.416,"body":"And then when we get into other"},{"startTime":716.666,"endTime":722.416,"body":"applications, we refer to them as dormant."},{"startTime":722.416,"endTime":725.416,"body":"There's actually an office in the Vehicle"},{"startTime":722.416,"endTime":725.416,"body":"Technologies office at the U.S."},{"startTime":725.416,"endTime":726.666,"body":"Department of Energy."},{"startTime":726.666,"endTime":730.666,"body":"That's an acronym is DORMA decarbonization"},{"startTime":726.666,"endTime":730.666,"body":"of rail, marine and aviation."},{"startTime":730.875,"endTime":731.166,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":731.166,"endTime":735.125,"body":"And when you think of those applications,"},{"startTime":731.166,"endTime":735.125,"body":"electrification, direct"},{"startTime":735.125,"endTime":738.833,"body":"electrification"},{"startTime":735.125,"endTime":738.833,"body":"seems to be a much less likely answer."},{"startTime":738.916,"endTime":742.541,"body":"We might still be able to use"},{"startTime":738.916,"endTime":742.541,"body":"renewable electricity,"},{"startTime":742.75,"endTime":746.541,"body":"but how we store that for those"},{"startTime":742.75,"endTime":746.541,"body":"applications might be very different."},{"startTime":746.625,"endTime":750.625,"body":"For aviation, for example,"},{"startTime":746.625,"endTime":750.625,"body":"sustainable aviation fuel seemed to be"},{"startTime":750.625,"endTime":754.958,"body":"the path that"},{"startTime":750.625,"endTime":754.958,"body":"the industry is embarking on."},{"startTime":755.208,"endTime":759.041,"body":"If we think of rail in Marine,"},{"startTime":755.208,"endTime":759.041,"body":"I think the answer is"},{"startTime":759.041,"endTime":762.916,"body":"still somewhat open"},{"startTime":759.041,"endTime":762.916,"body":"as to what might be the right application."},{"startTime":762.916,"endTime":767.958,"body":"Hydrogen and fuel cell come to mind,"},{"startTime":762.916,"endTime":767.958,"body":"maybe other ways of storing hydrogen"},{"startTime":767.958,"endTime":771.583,"body":"that could be ammonia or methanol"},{"startTime":767.958,"endTime":771.583,"body":"or some other chemical way of storing,"},{"startTime":771.666,"endTime":772.875,"body":"storing hydrogen."},{"startTime":772.875,"endTime":775.958,"body":"And fortunately, here at Argonne,"},{"startTime":775.958,"endTime":779.958,"body":"we have a long history"},{"startTime":775.958,"endTime":779.958,"body":"on working in large engines."},{"startTime":780.041,"endTime":783.333,"body":"We have locomotive size engines"},{"startTime":780.041,"endTime":783.333,"body":"here on site."},{"startTime":783.416,"endTime":787.375,"body":"And so we have spent several decades"},{"startTime":783.416,"endTime":787.375,"body":"working in that area, and we can leverage"},{"startTime":787.375,"endTime":790.875,"body":"some of those resources"},{"startTime":787.375,"endTime":790.875,"body":"to really try and identify"},{"startTime":790.875,"endTime":794.875,"body":"some of the answers that are needed"},{"startTime":790.875,"endTime":794.875,"body":"for those applications."},{"startTime":794.916,"endTime":796.5,"body":"Interesting. Interesting."},{"startTime":796.5,"endTime":800.083,"body":"So let's stay a little way with this"},{"startTime":796.5,"endTime":800.083,"body":"and let's say we go back five years"},{"startTime":800.083,"endTime":804.333,"body":"and what you were at Argonne doing then"},{"startTime":800.083,"endTime":804.333,"body":"and compare that with what you're going"},{"startTime":804.333,"endTime":805.875,"body":"to see over the next five years."},{"startTime":805.875,"endTime":810.333,"body":"What are the biggest changes"},{"startTime":805.875,"endTime":810.333,"body":"you have observed and are going to observe"},{"startTime":810.333,"endTime":813.375,"body":"when you look into the future"},{"startTime":810.333,"endTime":813.375,"body":"as we reimagine mobility?"},{"startTime":813.375,"endTime":816.583,"body":"Is it is it a tools that you have"},{"startTime":813.375,"endTime":816.583,"body":"at your disposal"},{"startTime":816.583,"endTime":820.458,"body":"at Argonne to do your research"},{"startTime":816.583,"endTime":820.458,"body":"and do your testing and do an analysis?"},{"startTime":820.541,"endTime":822.875,"body":"Is it is it the equipment?"},{"startTime":822.875,"endTime":824.833,"body":"Is it simulation technology?"},{"startTime":824.833,"endTime":827.375,"body":"That certainly has come a long way"},{"startTime":824.833,"endTime":827.375,"body":"from five years ago,"},{"startTime":827.375,"endTime":830.208,"body":"and it's going to continue"},{"startTime":827.375,"endTime":830.208,"body":"with the addition of A.I."},{"startTime":830.208,"endTime":831.791,"body":"the next five years?"},{"startTime":831.791,"endTime":836.916,"body":"Is it the technology that comes out of"},{"startTime":831.791,"endTime":836.916,"body":"the out of the economy or from the OEMs,"},{"startTime":836.916,"endTime":841.958,"body":"from all those different players"},{"startTime":836.916,"endTime":841.958,"body":"we just talked about or you share with us?"},{"startTime":841.958,"endTime":843.125,"body":"What do you see?"},{"startTime":843.125,"endTime":845.708,"body":"What's the"},{"startTime":843.125,"endTime":845.708,"body":"the big change that you have experienced?"},{"startTime":845.708,"endTime":849.833,"body":"So from an application standpoint,"},{"startTime":845.708,"endTime":849.833,"body":"I think we already spoke to some extent"},{"startTime":849.833,"endTime":850.5,"body":"about that."},{"startTime":850.5,"endTime":854.25,"body":"We have really transitioned"},{"startTime":850.5,"endTime":854.25,"body":"from traditionally having worked in light"},{"startTime":854.25,"endTime":857.25,"body":"duty space"},{"startTime":854.25,"endTime":857.25,"body":"and now much more focused on the medium"},{"startTime":857.25,"endTime":860.458,"body":"heavy duty and some offroad as we as"},{"startTime":857.25,"endTime":860.458,"body":"we spoke about."},{"startTime":860.541,"endTime":863.75,"body":"The other aspect,"},{"startTime":860.541,"endTime":863.75,"body":"I think that at a high level"},{"startTime":863.75,"endTime":868.833,"body":"that has changed as we used to look"},{"startTime":863.75,"endTime":868.833,"body":"at individual solutions, right?"},{"startTime":868.875,"endTime":872.541,"body":"You could be an automotive expert"},{"startTime":868.875,"endTime":872.541,"body":"and be happy for an entire career"},{"startTime":872.625,"endTime":875.666,"body":"with your blinders on"},{"startTime":872.625,"endTime":875.666,"body":"and maybe not look too much left or right"},{"startTime":875.916,"endTime":880.416,"body":"and I think with thinking"},{"startTime":875.916,"endTime":880.416,"body":"of all the alternatives"},{"startTime":880.416,"endTime":883.875,"body":"we're looking at right now,"},{"startTime":880.416,"endTime":883.875,"body":"that is not the right path forward."},{"startTime":884.083,"endTime":888.625,"body":"So the term that we're using here really"},{"startTime":884.083,"endTime":888.625,"body":"is systems of systems considerations."},{"startTime":888.875,"endTime":892.666,"body":"And the best example here is"},{"startTime":888.875,"endTime":892.666,"body":"is electrified mobility."},{"startTime":892.75,"endTime":895.0,"body":"But we can't just"},{"startTime":892.75,"endTime":895.0,"body":"look at that in isolation"},{"startTime":895.0,"endTime":898.208,"body":"because if we put additional load"},{"startTime":895.0,"endTime":898.208,"body":"on the grid, well, how does that impact"},{"startTime":898.208,"endTime":901.375,"body":"the grid"},{"startTime":898.208,"endTime":901.375,"body":"and what opportunities do we have"},{"startTime":901.458,"endTime":905.75,"body":"by doing this in a smart way"},{"startTime":901.458,"endTime":905.75,"body":"versus in an unmanaged way?"},{"startTime":905.833,"endTime":910.416,"body":"And electric vehicles in a grid"},{"startTime":905.833,"endTime":910.416,"body":"is just one of those examples."},{"startTime":910.416,"endTime":912.583,"body":"If we think of hydrogen right now,"},{"startTime":912.583,"endTime":914.75,"body":"we have to think of a new refueling"},{"startTime":912.583,"endTime":914.75,"body":"infrastructure."},{"startTime":914.75,"endTime":917.291,"body":"What would a built out of that look like?"},{"startTime":917.291,"endTime":922.75,"body":"And you could go on and on"},{"startTime":917.291,"endTime":922.75,"body":"in terms of the examples of of how systems"},{"startTime":922.75,"endTime":927.625,"body":"that we previously considered separate"},{"startTime":922.75,"endTime":927.625,"body":"are now being connected."},{"startTime":927.708,"endTime":932.291,"body":"And the way we approach"},{"startTime":927.708,"endTime":932.291,"body":"that here at Argonne is really from a"},{"startTime":932.375,"endTime":936.25,"body":"consumer needs and desire standpoint,"},{"startTime":936.25,"endTime":941.458,"body":"because ultimately what we have to deliver"},{"startTime":936.25,"endTime":941.458,"body":"is not the perfect technical solution,"},{"startTime":941.458,"endTime":949.375,"body":"but it's the solution"},{"startTime":941.458,"endTime":949.375,"body":"that customers are looking to embrace and"},{"startTime":949.458,"endTime":951.416,"body":"they they are choosing modes"},{"startTime":951.416,"endTime":956.708,"body":"because of individual preferences"},{"startTime":951.416,"endTime":956.708,"body":"and certain constraints they might have."},{"startTime":956.708,"endTime":961.958,"body":"And the the treating them"},{"startTime":956.708,"endTime":961.958,"body":"as one homogenous"},{"startTime":962.041,"endTime":964.333,"body":"block isn't the right way."},{"startTime":964.333,"endTime":967.583,"body":"It's not the right way for light duty"},{"startTime":964.333,"endTime":967.583,"body":"application, and it's certainly"},{"startTime":967.583,"endTime":971.208,"body":"not the right way"},{"startTime":967.583,"endTime":971.208,"body":"when we think of of other applications."},{"startTime":971.208,"endTime":971.708,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":971.708,"endTime":974.916,"body":"Typically we refer to"},{"startTime":974.916,"endTime":980.291,"body":"some of those large applications as hard"},{"startTime":974.916,"endTime":980.291,"body":"to decarbonize, which might not be true,"},{"startTime":980.291,"endTime":983.291,"body":"but some of them are much easier"},{"startTime":980.291,"endTime":983.291,"body":"to decarbonize than others."},{"startTime":983.416,"endTime":988.041,"body":"And the answer yet again lies"},{"startTime":983.416,"endTime":988.041,"body":"into a system analysis where, you know,"},{"startTime":988.125,"endTime":992.166,"body":"depending on where you are located,"},{"startTime":988.125,"endTime":992.166,"body":"what resources you might be available,"},{"startTime":992.25,"endTime":995.666,"body":"hydrogen might be the right answer,"},{"startTime":992.25,"endTime":995.666,"body":"electrification might be the right answer."},{"startTime":995.666,"endTime":999.208,"body":"So in general, I think over the last"},{"startTime":995.666,"endTime":999.208,"body":"five years, we have started to"},{"startTime":999.25,"endTime":1002.458,"body":"to just widen our aperture in terms of"},{"startTime":1002.541,"endTime":1006.0,"body":"what do we need to consider"},{"startTime":1002.541,"endTime":1006.0,"body":"to come up with the right"},{"startTime":1006.083,"endTime":1010.625,"body":"answer versus just deep diving into"},{"startTime":1006.083,"endTime":1010.625,"body":"into technical solutions."},{"startTime":1010.625,"endTime":1013.625,"body":"So I think that was probably"},{"startTime":1010.625,"endTime":1013.625,"body":"the biggest change that we see here."},{"startTime":1013.666,"endTime":1018.083,"body":"And as you mentioned,"},{"startTime":1013.666,"endTime":1018.083,"body":"improved computational resources"},{"startTime":1018.083,"endTime":1021.416,"body":"certainly play into"},{"startTime":1018.083,"endTime":1021.416,"body":"AI is playing into this as well."},{"startTime":1021.416,"endTime":1025.166,"body":"But but at a high level, it's really"},{"startTime":1021.416,"endTime":1025.166,"body":"it has allowed us to"},{"startTime":1025.166,"endTime":1028.958,"body":"to look at those systems of systems"},{"startTime":1025.166,"endTime":1028.958,"body":"in a more integrated way."},{"startTime":1029.041,"endTime":1030.625,"body":"Yeah, that's energy."},{"startTime":1030.625,"endTime":1033.75,"body":"Bringing up systems of systems"},{"startTime":1030.625,"endTime":1033.75,"body":"because we have certainly seen"},{"startTime":1033.75,"endTime":1037.75,"body":"it evolved the last,"},{"startTime":1033.75,"endTime":1037.75,"body":"I would say three plus years,"},{"startTime":1037.833,"endTime":1042.0,"body":"a consistent increase in importance"},{"startTime":1037.833,"endTime":1042.0,"body":"and staffing as well"},{"startTime":1042.0,"endTime":1045.875,"body":"that we need for systems engineers, right"},{"startTime":1042.0,"endTime":1045.875,"body":"where before we were sort of"},{"startTime":1045.958,"endTime":1049.833,"body":"we also created our own Lego blocks"},{"startTime":1045.958,"endTime":1049.833,"body":"and then assume they all came together."},{"startTime":1049.875,"endTime":1051.791,"body":"Today we sort of start with the systems."},{"startTime":1051.791,"endTime":1055.916,"body":"Okay, that then decides what the Lego"},{"startTime":1051.791,"endTime":1055.916,"body":"blocks are before we design them"},{"startTime":1055.916,"endTime":1057.708,"body":"and then come all together"},{"startTime":1055.916,"endTime":1057.708,"body":"and put them together."},{"startTime":1057.708,"endTime":1060.583,"body":"So very, very appropriate there."},{"startTime":1060.583,"endTime":1063.0,"body":"Well, let's jump in on"},{"startTime":1060.583,"endTime":1063.0,"body":"some of the megatrends. Right."},{"startTime":1063.0,"endTime":1068.416,"body":"So besides electrification really,"},{"startTime":1063.0,"endTime":1068.416,"body":"or the decarbonization trend or push"},{"startTime":1068.416,"endTime":1072.458,"body":"that you are heavily involved with Argonne"},{"startTime":1068.416,"endTime":1072.458,"body":"and we as well"},{"startTime":1072.541,"endTime":1075.375,"body":"we see"},{"startTime":1072.541,"endTime":1075.375,"body":"obviously are many, many other megatrends"},{"startTime":1075.375,"endTime":1077.916,"body":"in the automotive space"},{"startTime":1075.375,"endTime":1077.916,"body":"or in the mobility space."},{"startTime":1077.916,"endTime":1081.791,"body":"One certainly is again the emergence of AI"},{"startTime":1077.916,"endTime":1081.791,"body":"and all the different places"},{"startTime":1081.791,"endTime":1083.0,"body":"that can be used."},{"startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1086.458,"body":"And I think in many places it's already"},{"startTime":1083.0,"endTime":1086.458,"body":"used today, at least to some degree."},{"startTime":1086.458,"endTime":1088.416,"body":"We don't even recognize that it's truly."},{"startTime":1088.416,"endTime":1092.458,"body":"The other one is ADAS"},{"startTime":1088.416,"endTime":1092.458,"body":"sort of autonomous driving."},{"startTime":1092.458,"endTime":1092.708,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1092.708,"endTime":1097.708,"body":"And whereas a few years ago, level"},{"startTime":1092.708,"endTime":1097.708,"body":"two was like the thing we all push for."},{"startTime":1097.708,"endTime":1101.208,"body":"Now it's level two plus in level three"},{"startTime":1097.708,"endTime":1101.208,"body":"that we're really getting to."},{"startTime":1101.291,"endTime":1102.958,"body":"And I think we're still a little bit"},{"startTime":1102.958,"endTime":1106.875,"body":"or several years out"},{"startTime":1102.958,"endTime":1106.875,"body":"from truly level four to level five."},{"startTime":1106.916,"endTime":1109.25,"body":"But how does these are two megatrends?"},{"startTime":1109.25,"endTime":1113.041,"body":"Again, I on one side"},{"startTime":1109.25,"endTime":1113.041,"body":"and let's just say autonomous driving."},{"startTime":1113.041,"endTime":1114.875,"body":"So level four, level five,"},{"startTime":1114.875,"endTime":1120.458,"body":"how do those two tie in"},{"startTime":1114.875,"endTime":1120.458,"body":"to what you guys are doing at Oregon."},{"startTime":1120.541,"endTime":1121.333,"body":"When it comes"},{"startTime":1121.333,"endTime":1125.25,"body":"to ADAS and ADS automated"},{"startTime":1121.333,"endTime":1125.25,"body":"driving features?"},{"startTime":1125.25,"endTime":1129.875,"body":"That's another area that over the last"},{"startTime":1125.25,"endTime":1129.875,"body":"five years we have engaged heavily"},{"startTime":1130.083,"endTime":1133.5,"body":"being a national laboratory,"},{"startTime":1130.083,"endTime":1133.5,"body":"our Department of Energy"},{"startTime":1133.5,"endTime":1137.083,"body":"National Laboratory,"},{"startTime":1133.5,"endTime":1137.083,"body":"our focus is actually quite different"},{"startTime":1137.166,"endTime":1141.958,"body":"from what's very frequently discussed,"},{"startTime":1137.166,"endTime":1141.958,"body":"and that is the safety aspects, right?"},{"startTime":1141.958,"endTime":1144.291,"body":"When you think of connected"},{"startTime":1141.958,"endTime":1144.291,"body":"automated vehicles,"},{"startTime":1144.291,"endTime":1147.541,"body":"you think of edge cases"},{"startTime":1144.291,"endTime":1147.541,"body":"that might be of concern."},{"startTime":1147.541,"endTime":1151.75,"body":"And of course we all know this"},{"startTime":1147.541,"endTime":1151.75,"body":"news stories that support that."},{"startTime":1151.833,"endTime":1156.875,"body":"Our interest from an energy standpoint"},{"startTime":1151.833,"endTime":1156.875,"body":"is quite at the other end of the spectrum."},{"startTime":1156.875,"endTime":1160.583,"body":"And they always call these the"},{"startTime":1156.875,"endTime":1160.583,"body":"the boring, mundane cases,"},{"startTime":1160.833,"endTime":1163.833,"body":"but the ones that happen"},{"startTime":1160.833,"endTime":1163.833,"body":"over and over again during a day."},{"startTime":1163.958,"endTime":1167.541,"body":"And if you think from"},{"startTime":1163.958,"endTime":1167.541,"body":"an energy point of view,"},{"startTime":1167.791,"endTime":1172.208,"body":"those are the ones if you do those"},{"startTime":1167.791,"endTime":1172.208,"body":"well in an energy efficient way,"},{"startTime":1172.375,"endTime":1176.958,"body":"therefore the energy savings are so"},{"startTime":1172.375,"endTime":1176.958,"body":"we really we are focusing on this niche"},{"startTime":1176.958,"endTime":1180.125,"body":"to some extent, while everybody else"},{"startTime":1176.958,"endTime":1180.125,"body":"is focusing on the safety aspects."},{"startTime":1180.125,"endTime":1181.291,"body":"We're looking at"},{"startTime":1181.291,"endTime":1185.625,"body":"where our opportunities for energy savings"},{"startTime":1181.291,"endTime":1185.625,"body":"with connected and automated vehicles,"},{"startTime":1185.791,"endTime":1190.625,"body":"we have done a lot of analysis,"},{"startTime":1185.791,"endTime":1190.625,"body":"but also some experimental work."},{"startTime":1190.666,"endTime":1193.375,"body":"Some examples"},{"startTime":1190.666,"endTime":1193.375,"body":"just to highlight to you, we"},{"startTime":1193.375,"endTime":1196.375,"body":"we operate production connected"},{"startTime":1193.375,"endTime":1196.375,"body":"automated vehicles."},{"startTime":1196.5,"endTime":1201.0,"body":"We have developed our own sensory"},{"startTime":1196.5,"endTime":1201.0,"body":"and what we are interested in is"},{"startTime":1201.0,"endTime":1204.75,"body":"how does an automated vehicle impact"},{"startTime":1204.958,"endTime":1208.208,"body":"traffic around itself, around the eco"},{"startTime":1204.958,"endTime":1208.208,"body":"vehicle."},{"startTime":1208.291,"endTime":1213.666,"body":"The eco vehicle might be operating"},{"startTime":1208.291,"endTime":1213.666,"body":"very fuel efficient, but if it upsets"},{"startTime":1213.666,"endTime":1217.791,"body":"traffic flow, then overall we might see"},{"startTime":1213.666,"endTime":1217.791,"body":"an increased energy consumption."},{"startTime":1217.791,"endTime":1219.958,"body":"That's an aspect we're interested in."},{"startTime":1219.958,"endTime":1224.583,"body":"And then going back again"},{"startTime":1219.958,"endTime":1224.583,"body":"to the systems of systems perspective."},{"startTime":1224.583,"endTime":1226.958,"body":"Another aspect that's very important"},{"startTime":1224.583,"endTime":1226.958,"body":"was connectivity."},{"startTime":1226.958,"endTime":1229.583,"body":"Automation is"},{"startTime":1226.958,"endTime":1229.583,"body":"how are people going to use it?"},{"startTime":1229.583,"endTime":1234.083,"body":"There's some very interesting studies"},{"startTime":1229.583,"endTime":1234.083,"body":"out there that suggest that"},{"startTime":1234.166,"endTime":1236.75,"body":"we might see more vehicle miles traveled,"},{"startTime":1236.75,"endTime":1239.291,"body":"because if I don't"},{"startTime":1236.75,"endTime":1239.291,"body":"have to do the driving myself,"},{"startTime":1239.291,"endTime":1243.416,"body":"I might be willing"},{"startTime":1239.291,"endTime":1243.416,"body":"to accept a longer commute or"},{"startTime":1243.5,"endTime":1247.25,"body":"things I would have otherwise done"},{"startTime":1243.5,"endTime":1247.25,"body":"with rail or flying"},{"startTime":1247.25,"endTime":1250.416,"body":"or some other mode of transportation"},{"startTime":1247.25,"endTime":1250.416,"body":"I'm willing to to drive now"},{"startTime":1250.625,"endTime":1255.291,"body":"and how that might have a negative impact"},{"startTime":1250.625,"endTime":1255.291,"body":"on the overall energy consumption."},{"startTime":1255.375,"endTime":1258.291,"body":"That is another area"},{"startTime":1255.375,"endTime":1258.291,"body":"that that we are quite interested in."},{"startTime":1258.291,"endTime":1259.875,"body":"I think the jury is still out."},{"startTime":1259.875,"endTime":1265.166,"body":"As you're well aware,"},{"startTime":1259.875,"endTime":1265.166,"body":"the full automation is"},{"startTime":1265.166,"endTime":1269.208,"body":"is still a couple of years out,"},{"startTime":1265.166,"endTime":1269.208,"body":"as you had mentioned."},{"startTime":1269.291,"endTime":1272.416,"body":"And that's going to be very interesting"},{"startTime":1269.291,"endTime":1272.416,"body":"in terms of"},{"startTime":1272.416,"endTime":1276.208,"body":"how people are engaging with the system,"},{"startTime":1272.416,"endTime":1276.208,"body":"because that could have much"},{"startTime":1276.208,"endTime":1279.416,"body":"larger energy implications"},{"startTime":1276.208,"endTime":1279.416,"body":"than building the perfect system."},{"startTime":1279.625,"endTime":1283.166,"body":"And yet again,"},{"startTime":1279.625,"endTime":1283.166,"body":"that's where select as human behavior"},{"startTime":1283.166,"endTime":1285.291,"body":"aspect comes in that as an engineer"},{"startTime":1285.291,"endTime":1289.041,"body":"and never thought that that would be"},{"startTime":1285.291,"endTime":1289.041,"body":"a major concern for for for for"},{"startTime":1289.125,"endTime":1293.416,"body":"our engineering teams to understand how"},{"startTime":1289.125,"endTime":1293.416,"body":"people might engage with the system and."},{"startTime":1293.458,"endTime":1297.458,"body":"That if if OEM or suppliers"},{"startTime":1293.458,"endTime":1297.458,"body":"are listening to this."},{"startTime":1297.458,"endTime":1301.25,"body":"Thomas,"},{"startTime":1297.458,"endTime":1301.25,"body":"how can they get a hold of you guys"},{"startTime":1301.25,"endTime":1305.833,"body":"to try and benefit"},{"startTime":1301.25,"endTime":1305.833,"body":"from some of those studies and testing"},{"startTime":1305.833,"endTime":1309.208,"body":"you can do or studies"},{"startTime":1305.833,"endTime":1309.208,"body":"you do for the government to again"},{"startTime":1309.208,"endTime":1313.541,"body":"improve the technology"},{"startTime":1309.208,"endTime":1313.541,"body":"and sort of future proof"},{"startTime":1313.583,"endTime":1318.125,"body":"their vehicles or their designs"},{"startTime":1313.583,"endTime":1318.125,"body":"that it's not just geared for the"},{"startTime":1318.125,"endTime":1322.416,"body":"next year or two, but really something"},{"startTime":1318.125,"endTime":1322.416,"body":"that hopefully is much more future proof."},{"startTime":1322.416,"endTime":1325.75,"body":"We all know there is nothing"},{"startTime":1322.416,"endTime":1325.75,"body":"that is 100% future proof"},{"startTime":1325.833,"endTime":1328.75,"body":"but can use this to"},{"startTime":1325.833,"endTime":1328.75,"body":"to better their products."},{"startTime":1328.75,"endTime":1330.208,"body":"Is there a way to get a hold of you?"},{"startTime":1330.208,"endTime":1332.291,"body":"Is there the best way"},{"startTime":1330.208,"endTime":1332.291,"body":"to get information from you?"},{"startTime":1332.291,"endTime":1333.833,"body":"What would that be?"},{"startTime":1333.833,"endTime":1338.5,"body":"So. So we are quite being the applied side"},{"startTime":1333.833,"endTime":1338.5,"body":"of the of Argonne National Laboratory."},{"startTime":1338.5,"endTime":1340.916,"body":"We are quite engaged with industry."},{"startTime":1340.916,"endTime":1344.708,"body":"We're part of many consortia"},{"startTime":1340.916,"endTime":1344.708,"body":"and I would encourage anyone"},{"startTime":1344.791,"endTime":1348.75,"body":"that works in this space"},{"startTime":1344.791,"endTime":1348.75,"body":"to either contact us"},{"startTime":1348.75,"endTime":1350.666,"body":"and we can point you in the right"},{"startTime":1348.75,"endTime":1350.666,"body":"direction."},{"startTime":1350.666,"endTime":1354.458,"body":"Some areas that come to mind is"},{"startTime":1350.666,"endTime":1354.458,"body":"we're in consortia"},{"startTime":1354.541,"endTime":1358.541,"body":"that are looking at improving the"},{"startTime":1354.541,"endTime":1358.541,"body":"reliability of electric vehicle charging."},{"startTime":1358.541,"endTime":1362.208,"body":"There's a joint office projects consortium"},{"startTime":1358.541,"endTime":1362.208,"body":"that's worth highlighting."},{"startTime":1362.416,"endTime":1366.125,"body":"Also since we spoke about connected"},{"startTime":1362.416,"endTime":1366.125,"body":"and automated"},{"startTime":1366.125,"endTime":1369.125,"body":"vehicles, one topic"},{"startTime":1366.125,"endTime":1369.125,"body":"we are engaged in with it."},{"startTime":1369.125,"endTime":1373.708,"body":"So you think that's communities now is"},{"startTime":1369.125,"endTime":1373.708,"body":"how would you test"},{"startTime":1373.791,"endTime":1376.625,"body":"a fully autonomous vehicle"},{"startTime":1373.791,"endTime":1376.625,"body":"for fuel economy?"},{"startTime":1376.625,"endTime":1379.708,"body":"I mean, maybe following a drive"},{"startTime":1376.625,"endTime":1379.708,"body":"cycle doesn't make any sense at that point"},{"startTime":1379.708,"endTime":1382.416,"body":"because the vehicle"},{"startTime":1379.708,"endTime":1382.416,"body":"is making driving decisions."},{"startTime":1382.416,"endTime":1385.958,"body":"So these kinds of forward looking"},{"startTime":1382.416,"endTime":1385.958,"body":"questions is what we are interested in."},{"startTime":1386.041,"endTime":1388.791,"body":"And we encourage industrial players"},{"startTime":1388.791,"endTime":1392.041,"body":"and others that are interested"},{"startTime":1388.791,"endTime":1392.041,"body":"in that space to engage with us and engage"},{"startTime":1392.041,"endTime":1396.666,"body":"especially with the standards bodies,"},{"startTime":1392.041,"endTime":1396.666,"body":"because as you know,"},{"startTime":1396.666,"endTime":1402.0,"body":"they typically move slowly in many cases,"},{"startTime":1396.666,"endTime":1402.0,"body":"not in all, and we need to get ahead."},{"startTime":1402.083,"endTime":1403.166,"body":"So when those technologies"},{"startTime":1403.166,"endTime":1406.958,"body":"are coming out that the standards"},{"startTime":1403.166,"endTime":1406.958,"body":"are ready to really evaluate them, to."},{"startTime":1407.041,"endTime":1411.375,"body":"Let's create a perfect fit for what we're"},{"startTime":1407.041,"endTime":1411.375,"body":"talking here, how we reimagine mobility."},{"startTime":1411.458,"endTime":1412.625,"body":"Thomas has been great."},{"startTime":1412.625,"endTime":1415.166,"body":"Final question for you."},{"startTime":1415.166,"endTime":1420.208,"body":"What's going to be your next vehicle"},{"startTime":1415.166,"endTime":1420.208,"body":"you're going to buy and why?"},{"startTime":1420.291,"endTime":1421.375,"body":"That's that's a tough one."},{"startTime":1421.375,"endTime":1425.125,"body":"You know, I mentioned that our family"},{"startTime":1421.375,"endTime":1425.125,"body":"has an electric vehicle"},{"startTime":1425.125,"endTime":1429.541,"body":"and actually I would be purchased"},{"startTime":1425.125,"endTime":1429.541,"body":"was an eight year old electric vehicle."},{"startTime":1429.541,"endTime":1431.583,"body":"So so we were that customer"},{"startTime":1431.583,"endTime":1436.125,"body":"that takes the risk of buying a vehicle"},{"startTime":1431.583,"endTime":1436.125,"body":"that's out of warranty."},{"startTime":1436.375,"endTime":1439.083,"body":"But knock on wood,"},{"startTime":1436.375,"endTime":1439.083,"body":"that has been treating us quite well."},{"startTime":1439.083,"endTime":1444.625,"body":"We we enjoy the quiet exploration"},{"startTime":1439.083,"endTime":1444.625,"body":"and have young kids."},{"startTime":1444.708,"endTime":1448.708,"body":"So they enjoyed a quiet,"},{"startTime":1444.708,"endTime":1448.708,"body":"quiet mode of operation."},{"startTime":1448.791,"endTime":1451.5,"body":"Right now what I might be looking for"},{"startTime":1451.5,"endTime":1456.291,"body":"is fully electric vehicles that"},{"startTime":1451.5,"endTime":1456.291,"body":"that can accommodate a growing family."},{"startTime":1456.5,"endTime":1460.166,"body":"Plus maybe, you know, some of the toys"},{"startTime":1456.5,"endTime":1460.166,"body":"and bicycles and everything else."},{"startTime":1460.166,"endTime":1462.708,"body":"We see some of those vehicles coming out."},{"startTime":1462.708,"endTime":1467.25,"body":"And that's something I'm"},{"startTime":1462.708,"endTime":1467.25,"body":"particularly excited about because that"},{"startTime":1467.25,"endTime":1472.0,"body":"the more we built out options"},{"startTime":1467.25,"endTime":1472.0,"body":"for for any individual situation,"},{"startTime":1472.0,"endTime":1474.375,"body":"I think the more uptake"},{"startTime":1472.0,"endTime":1474.375,"body":"we'll see of those vehicles as well."},{"startTime":1474.375,"endTime":1479.25,"body":"My good would I"},{"startTime":1474.375,"endTime":1479.25,"body":"maybe to add one more last question."},{"startTime":1479.25,"endTime":1483.291,"body":"Subsection"},{"startTime":1479.25,"endTime":1483.291,"body":"A, would a hybrid fall into this for you?"},{"startTime":1483.291,"endTime":1487.791,"body":"Are you like, No, I'm really I'm"},{"startTime":1483.291,"endTime":1487.791,"body":"more of a pure, pure heavy kind of guy."},{"startTime":1487.875,"endTime":1492.333,"body":"I'm I'm personally really open"},{"startTime":1487.875,"endTime":1492.333,"body":"to the hybrid and plug in hybrid"},{"startTime":1492.333,"endTime":1497.375,"body":"option as well, especially since"},{"startTime":1492.333,"endTime":1497.375,"body":"we are in the Chicago area."},{"startTime":1497.375,"endTime":1502.541,"body":"We have family in Michigan and so that"},{"startTime":1497.375,"endTime":1502.541,"body":"we do this drive on a regular basis."},{"startTime":1502.791,"endTime":1507.125,"body":"But for most of the day to day driving,"},{"startTime":1502.791,"endTime":1507.125,"body":"we don't need the big battery, Right?"},{"startTime":1507.125,"endTime":1511.0,"body":"So maybe there, there, there a plug in"},{"startTime":1507.125,"endTime":1511.0,"body":"hybrid might be a logical solution"},{"startTime":1511.0,"endTime":1513.25,"body":"to keep vehicle weight"},{"startTime":1511.0,"endTime":1513.25,"body":"and keep costs down."},{"startTime":1513.25,"endTime":1514.875,"body":"But still, for the daily driving,"},{"startTime":1514.875,"endTime":1517.958,"body":"still be able to"},{"startTime":1514.875,"endTime":1517.958,"body":"take advantage of electric mobility."},{"startTime":1517.958,"endTime":1520.5,"body":"So so certainly"},{"startTime":1517.958,"endTime":1520.5,"body":"something that's on our radar."},{"startTime":1520.5,"endTime":1522.333,"body":"Very good. Perfect."},{"startTime":1522.333,"endTime":1525.333,"body":"Thomas, thank you so much for your time"},{"startTime":1522.333,"endTime":1525.333,"body":"and thank you so much for sharing"},{"startTime":1525.333,"endTime":1525.875,"body":"with you."},{"startTime":1525.875,"endTime":1531.375,"body":"And Argonne National Lab"},{"startTime":1525.875,"endTime":1531.375,"body":"is doing to re-imagine mobility here"},{"startTime":1531.416,"endTime":1534.416,"body":"and for many different applications"},{"startTime":1531.416,"endTime":1534.416,"body":"in the U.S.."},{"startTime":1534.5,"endTime":1535.791,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"startTime":1535.791,"endTime":1538.25,"body":"Thanks for listening to Reimagine"},{"startTime":1535.791,"endTime":1538.25,"body":"Mobility Podcast."},{"startTime":1538.25,"endTime":1540.833,"body":"If you like this episode,"},{"startTime":1538.25,"endTime":1540.833,"body":"please subscribe and tell a friend."}]}