Designing Healthier Behaviors and Conscious Cultures with Marika Messager

Join us, Seasons Leadership Co-Founder Susan Ireland and Communications and Marketing Leader Lauren Penning, as we talk to Founder of Consciousleadership.org Marika Messager. She's an inspiring leader who transitioned from the world of finance into helping others achieve a mission-driven approach to leadership.
 
Show notes:
First Marika discusses how she champions three types of leadership: self-leadership, thought leadership, and team leadership. She openly shares her unique perspective on fostering an environment that encourages independent solution-finding and offers insights from her experience in managing a team.
 
Next, we dive into how to fight toxicity in the workplace. Marika talks about the power of acceptance and responsibility in crafting a positive culture and discusses strategies for mastering emotions and setting boundaries. Marika shares how to maintain healthy words and actions, even when faced with challenging situations. 

Get ready to be inspired by Marika’s mission to design healthier behaviors and create conscious cultures. This episode will leave you with actionable advice that will help you elevate your leadership and create a positive impact. 

About Marika: Marika Messager is a Conscious Leader, visionary, teacher, researcher in consciousness, elevating individuals, businesses and the global community into a new paradigm of positive and purposeful impact. Marika is also the Founder of ConsciousLeadership.org. A way of bringing together global leaders to mobilize collective power for greater transformation as well as equip individuals with the systems and practices needed in order to create a conscious culture in business and the wider world.

Resources:
Website: https://consciousleadership.org/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conscious-leadership-coaching-consulting/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marikamessager
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marikamessager/

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hello and welcome to fall with the Seasons Leadership podcast, where we recognize the time in your leadership journey to integrate new insights and knowledge and to let go of what no longer serves you. Throughout the season, we will bring you actionable advice to improve your leadership and your life today. Thank you for joining me, debbie Collard and my co-host, susan Ireland. As certified leadership coaches and co-founders of Seasons Leadership, we share a vision to make excellent leadership the world-wide standard. Learn more at SeasonsLeadershipcom. Join us in making positive leadership the norm rather than the exception. By listening and engaging in the discussions that are featured on this podcast, you help us bring leadership excellence to the world.

Speaker 2: 0:43

Marika Mesaje is a conscious leader, visionary teacher, researcher in consciousness, elevating individuals, businesses and the global community into a new paradigm of positive and purposeful impact. Marika is the founder of consciousleadershiporg, a way of bringing together global leaders to mobilize collective power for greater transformation, as well as equip individuals with systems and practices needed in order to create a conscious culture in business and the wider world. Marika talks to us about taking responsibility for ourselves and our surroundings. You're going to enjoy Marika's insights and tangible examples that support all leaders as we work to improve unhealthy conditions and patterns of toxic behavior in the workplace and beyond. She really gives some good ideas on how to survive in a toxic environment. You're going to enjoy this conversation. You're welcome today to Season's Leadership and another podcast we have. I want to introduce Lauren Penning. Lauren, welcome again. You co-host with us periodically and it's nice to see you again. Lauren is our communications and marketing leader for Season's Leadership. Thanks.

Speaker 3: 2:08

Susan, it's great to be on.

Speaker 2: 2:09

Great. I'd like to welcome Marika Mesaje. Did I get that right? Oh, I butchered it, didn't I? No, no, it's good.

Speaker 4: 2:22

It's perfect.

Speaker 2: 2:24

Thank you for being so gracious about that. Marika is with consciousleadershiporg and we're going to talk about consciousness. I hope I'm excited about that. Let's just jump in, marika, tell us about conscious leadership, okay.

Speaker 4: 2:41

So conscious leadership is many things, depending on which dimension, from which dimension you look at it. I like to think of it as a way of life and a philosophy for a new paradigm of working, being and relating. So it's also a technology, it's a technology of consciousness and it's a technology that can be used for a better future for all, with greater positive impact and influence. So that's kind of the big frame, the big picture.

Speaker 4: 3:18

If we want to go deeper into some models around conscious leadership, I like to think of it as three types of leadership. The first one is self-leadership, which is all about the ability to lead the self, so the self-awareness, emotional intelligence, intuitive intelligence, systemic intelligence, which, quite frankly, is something that each and every individual wants to, you know, or should want to evolve in. Then there is the dimension of thought leadership, which is, you know, having mastery over a topic, a subject where you can inspire others, where you can lead others towards a vision, the realization of a vision. And then there is team leadership, which, you know, for a lot of people leadership is just that, so it's one dimension only. And the team leadership is, of course, around working together, having open communication and tool systems, practices, so that we execute well together.

Speaker 2: 4:19

Good, let me just say this is so interesting because it really aligns with our season's leadership kind of framework. So it's leadership of self, game of life, leadership of teams. What was the one I missed?

Speaker 4: 4:34

one Thought leadership, thought leadership, which is leadership of purpose, if you want.

Speaker 2: 4:42

Great Leadership of purpose. That's wonderful, wow. So I don't know how familiar you are with seasons leadership, but our mission is to raise the level of leadership excellence across the world because we need better leaders. Yeah, we do. Yes, so tell us about. Why are you doing this?

Speaker 4: 5:07

Oh, because I have experienced different types of leadership in my life. I have experienced different types of being a leader myself and I would say my whole life, in a way, has been dedicated to understanding the healthy behaviors that one has and one displays in work and in life, and the unhealthy behaviors that one displays and where do they come from. So observing the symptoms, but also being able to get to the root cause of those behaviors and shift them into healthier behaviors. So we can do that at the level of the individual, we can do that at the level of the organization and we can do that at the level of the system. So it's, in a nutshell, why I do this.

Speaker 4: 6:00

If you want a bit more details, I've worked for 15 years in finance on the trading floor, and so I was an equity analyst and equity sales and at the end I was head of equities for Europe and the Middle East.

Speaker 4: 6:11

So I was 34 and I was managing 40 people, mostly men, mostly older than me and mostly white, and finance on the trading floor is a very specific environment. So I was very successful, but I also got immersed into a world of extreme and with acceptance, understanding and compassion, I was able to really observe why are some toxic behaviors displayed, and having a compassionate and collaborative approach to that and starting to design some healthier behaviors. So it started there on the professional level. But then, in my own personal development, I started working on myself when I was 28. So that's 20 years ago, because I had some toxic behaviors in my family and that journey really taught me a lot about myself but also gave me some amazing tools to be a better manager and a better leader and to create different types of culture. And so I've kind of brought them together with the vision that through conscious leadership, we can have better human beings and better organizations and therefore create a better system for all of us.

Speaker 3: 7:35

That's really interesting. You were mentioning finance specific as your background and I think we all come from our own specific backgrounds that kind of thought leadership or that place that we have mastery. And what's really interesting is that when you apply some of these concepts that they're universal, that we're at season leadership, looking for what are the things we can help leaders do better across all of these different specialties and different areas. And so what have you found as something that is kind of unifying in the work that you do, that all leaders maybe need help with a focus area that could help all leaders get more to that level of consciousness.

Speaker 4: 8:18

I think you know it's people intelligence, really intuitive intelligence, and people intelligence. But there is a say that's very common, that says it's only at the top, and it's true, right. But at the same time, how can we invite leaders to shift their perspective so that what they invest in their people and what they invest in themselves actually amplifies the performance of the organization, amplifies the well-being of all individuals within the organization? And so it's really for me the kind of leveling up of the people element and embracing the fact that this is one of the dimensions in business that hasn't been tapped in so much. You know, for decades we've been trying to raise revenues by gaining market shares or we've been trying to increase profit by reducing costs.

Speaker 4: 9:15

Some industries have looked at client satisfaction, right, but very few have looked at employee satisfaction.

Speaker 4: 9:24

And you know, we're kind of getting to a point where, in the world we live in, which is Vika, volatile and certain, complex and ambiguous, if we only rely on gaining market shares or reducing costs, we are not going to stay market leaders or we're not going to access market leadership in our own field.

Speaker 4: 9:42

So those two pillars, you know, client satisfaction and employee satisfaction, which really are people and human capital. How can we start to work on that dimension? And you know, some people come at it from a place of kind of strategic awareness and some people come at it from a place of strategic awareness but also from a place of change of values in leadership, wanting to introduce more care, more collaboration, more co-creation and ultimately wanting to create systemic change because they realize that the way we work is not really working anymore. And you know, the higher dimension for me and you know that's part of our vision for conscious leadership is that through the private sector and through new ways of working and creating new blueprints of relating and co-creating together, we can create new blueprints for systemic change in a greater scale.

Speaker 2: 10:40

This is so fascinating for me, and one of the things that we try to do is give our listeners some tangible examples or suggestions or advice how to do what you're saying. Is there any advice? I want to ask for a quick fix, but I know that's probably not possible. What's some advice?

Speaker 4: 11:04

Here comes the magic wand.

Speaker 2: 11:06

Yeah, if it was only that simple. Yeah, but do you have advice?

Speaker 4: 11:13

Yeah, I mean, one of the things, one of the lens through which we look at things, is clarity, presence and creation, but the clarity piece is important, right? So taking that time to actually make a diagnosis of where you are in your organization and where is your organization. So what is working, what is not working, what are the systems in place to create sustained healthy behaviors? Do you notice unhealthy behaviors within yourself, within your team? With basically, like, taking stock of all the behaviors that are not healthy and starting by working at that dimension and being like how can we replace those unhealthy behaviors with healthy behaviors? What would that look like? So that's ways to start doing the work at a very tangible level, where we're actually looking at what is not healthy and what healthy would look like, and how do we implement that.

Speaker 3: 12:17

In your leadership. Do you have kind of like a moment where some of this clicked for you? It was kind of like an aha moment. Oh, these behaviors as I'm changing them I'm seeing this happening in my own organization might be helpful if you could share a little bit about your experience implementing some of this.

Speaker 4: 12:37

Yeah, sure, I am wondering which one to pick because I have so many. Is there a specific one? Do you have like a I don't know, a specific challenge that you have in mind, that you came across, or something like that, so that I can relate, because, to be honest, I have loads of examples?

Speaker 3: 12:58

Oh, I'm sure I guess I'm just thinking where you were talking about the people intelligence and how organizations have looked at, you know, increasing profit or increasing customer. But how do you bring that to that people level, like if there's an example where in your work before maybe you transferred to doing this bigger work, that you implemented something into a team and you saw those kinds of results?

Speaker 4: 13:24

Yeah, okay, so I'll start. I'll share a personal example, because conscious leadership really is about knowing yourself so well that you know how to put yourself in the best conditions to honor your potential, right? So it also means what are my strengths, what are my witnesses, how do I amplify my strength and how do I accept my witnesses and create a system around me so that you know they are not becoming unhealthy? And so you know, when you work on a trading floor, it's a very early start, right? So some people are there at 6am, even 5.30am. For many years in my life I was at the office at 6am and I don't like to wake up in the morning at all right, it's not my thing.

Speaker 4: 14:13

I mean some people are. No, some people are better than others, right, but so I was like I know that this is a struggle for me and I also know that when I show up at the office, whatever the time, I'm kind of a little bit in my bubble. I need to know I need a bit of time to settle right. But when I was managing those 40 people and when I was arriving at the office, they were all coming towards me. You know, like in the first hour of me arriving at the office with questions and problems and you know how do we fix this, and this is not going well and this is wrong, right, and I was kind of crossed because this is my job, right, to be there for them and to receive whatever they have to say, which, you know, unless you start to train people, what they have to say is a lot of complaints and challenges and problems, right, and so I could see myself not responding to them in the way that was making me proud of who. I was right, because I was a bit short. I was like I need to focus on my emails and they're coming towards me and they want my attention and I can't give them my attention. So, you know, I could see that some frustration, resentment were being built and that it was becoming unhealthy and really not productive, right? So I really thought, okay, how do I make it work for everyone? And then one day I said, listen, you can come to me, I'm always there for you and that's my job, right. But when I arrive, give me one hour so that I can actually do what I have to do, and then I can be receptive for you, right? So I said to everyone just give me an hour before you come and ask me anything. And then I added by the way, in that hour, why don't you think about two options that could sort out your issue, right? And so what I noticed is that after a month, I had probably 60% less people coming towards me, right, because they were able to find their own solutions. And when we had a conversation, it was a conversation that was much more adult to adult, right. So there was like this is what's going on, this is what I thought about it, and I was very receptive. So it was a much more productive and, you know, satisfying conversation from a human perspective. So that's typically an example, right? And you can see that it's because I saw that I was not being the best I could be because of the situation, but I could also understand and have, you know, the bigger picture of everything that was going on and trying to create another system that would serve everyone involved.

Speaker 4: 16:52

Right, but that's really involves accepting, looking at yourself in the mirror and being like you know, I'm not very good at 7 am in the morning when people ask questions. Right, can I own that or do I need to hide from this? You know, do I need to tie away? And so we can see how. You know that takes courage to be responsible, to accept who you are and all of that right, which is part of the consciousness element. In an unhealthy culture, there is a lot of hiding, there is a lot of masking, there is a lot of not taking responsibility and if those things are not happening in an organization or in any form of relationship, really you can't really communicate and you can't grow together, you can't find resolution together. So that piece of acceptance is crucial.

Speaker 2: 17:45

I have a question. So you know I do a lot of coaching and many times people come and ask about how to respond or how to actually almost survive in a toxic environment, and so I'm wondering if you have some thoughts about that so we can work on our own consciousness, ourself and maybe even you know some thought. But then how do you I mean, I guess that's could be how do we survive in the world that maybe is unconscious?

Speaker 4: 18:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a forever question. No, my answer to that is first, it's impeccability, right? I really strongly believe that the antidote to toxicity is impeccability and truth. So if you are in a toxic environment, it means that there will be a culture of blame, of shame, of hiding, maybe of guilt-tripping, maybe of dishonesty, maybe of manipulation, control, disempowerment. There is a lot, right? So first be educated, educate yourself on what is toxicity, because when you can actually name a behavior and understand that you know there is this is toxic, it's much easier for you to not take it personally and to you know, look at it from a distance and respond rather than react, right? So learn what is gaslighting, what is stall-walling, what is silent treatment, all of those right. Those days it's very easy to educate oneself and then be impeccable in how you show up, in how you deliver, in how you communicate With toxicity.

Speaker 4: 19:39

A lot happens in the gray zone, right. This is, the gray zone is the birthplace of suffering and manipulation. So we want to avoid gray zones as much as possible. So have some written communication, have some. You know, sometimes in some companies we can have some recorded communications. But make sure that you know everything is documented so that you know, people can say that's not true, I didn't say that, or right.

Speaker 4: 20:11

And then there is a lot of work to be done on the presence right, because a toxic culture is going to be emotionally triggering, and so, actually, if we want to survive, we have to master our own emotions so that we don't allow ourselves to get triggered right. So there is a lot of work in terms of mastering your emotions, being able to be emotionally agile, being able to come back to your center. There is also a lot of work around boundaries. How do I place boundaries so that I start to create a safe space for myself? So there are many things to do, and the final world is, you know, if you can avoid being in a toxic culture, that's the best that you can do for yourself.

Speaker 2: 21:01

Yes, yeah, that is. It's a hard question, isn't it? Because I know for myself, you know doing, you know even setting boundaries and being present and all of that stuff, it's still. I still find myself often being triggered and then you know ruminating on it and it takes a lot of energy, that and it takes away my peace. And if there was a magic wand, I wish I could find it so I could just like not care. Yeah though I really like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 21:40

So you said, Marieke, about identifying what toxic behaviors are. So then when you can label it, you can distance yourself from it. I think there's a lot of power in being able to say that's somebody else's issue and I can then figure out how to, how I should deal with myself and kind of create some of those boundaries. So I think that's going to be a really helpful, powerful thing for a lot of people to help shift the way.

Speaker 4: 22:06

maybe they're yeah because, also, you know what, once you you are educated on those topics, you can discern them. So if you're having a difficult conversation which, to be honest, difficult conversations are part of business and life, right, so we need to navigate them.

Speaker 4: 22:21

But if you can see that somebody is in denial or being dishonest or being manipulative in the conversation, you know you can clearly say and I've said this before, you know I was like this is, this is a unhealthy pattern Right In our communication, because we can't have an honest conversation, so this is unhealthy. So, can we have a healthy conversation? And really, you know, always try to steer the boat towards something that is healthy by naming and by actually shedding truth and shedding light on what is unhealthy. So that's why you direct, you know, the conversation towards something that is healthy and you can really assess if it's possible or not, because sometimes you will see that it's just impossible and that the person or the group are going to stay in drama and chaos and they just want to stay there, right, so so then you also have an information that either you, you know at which level you can interact, but you also know that it's foundationally unhealthy Well, it's fantastic.

Speaker 2: 23:28

Well, um, america, am I saying that right? Yes, coming toward the end, and I just want you to offer you the space here to give our listeners some final thoughts. If there's anything you want to leave us with, please do.

Speaker 4: 23:50

What could I leave you with? I think it's a calling for people to really take responsibility within themselves and in their surroundings, with the understanding that we live in a system that is toxic. So we all have some unhealthy behaviors within ourselves. We have been shaped by them, we have been programmed by them. The more individually we can do the work to look at those unhealthy places within ourselves and shift them internally and therefore shift our external conditions, this is really how we can create something that is, a system that is more based on values around unity and peace and respect and trust and collaboration. It's really like accepting that it's not me or them, or her or she or they. It's within all of us. We all have that responsibility to look at it and to transmute it within ourselves and in our collective.

Speaker 2: 24:58

I would think that leaders in particular have a responsibility to explore this and raise their own level of consciousness.

Speaker 4: 25:12

Of course, because they show the way, they are examples, they are role models and also they are active change makers in the current system. If we want a conscious system, we need conscious leaders to build it.

Speaker 2: 25:33

Leaders have such a big impact on everybody around them. You had a great example of what you did on the floor. By knowing yourself better, you actually empowered your team more and they took more responsibility themselves. Exactly how can people find you and learn more?

Speaker 4: 25:59

You can find me on our website, consciousleadershiporg, where we have a lot of complementary resources for free masterclass. There is our monthly digest, we have some free meditation, a lot of things to continue to discover Conscious Leadership. If you want to, then you can also follow us on Instagram, marie Camél Sager, and LinkedIn, where we also share some valuable content. Conscious Leadership is also a movement and a community. We are always very happy to Welcome new people into our universe and have conversations when people feel the need to that's great.

Speaker 2: 26:44

Well, thank you so much. We really enjoyed this conversation.

Speaker 3: 26:48

Yes, it was really inspiring. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4: 26:51

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 26:55

Thank you, listeners, for joining us for the Seasons Leadership Podcast. We hope you take these words of excellence with you to help you strengthen the organizations and communities in which you live and work and join us in making excellent leadership the worldwide standard. We have many ways for you to read, listen and watch as we explore what it means to lead with excellence. You can subscribe to our free newsletters, podcasts and YouTube channel. We also offer exclusive leadership resources through our Patreon leadership community. Visit Patreon P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com. Slash Seasons Leadership to become a member and begin working toward your full leadership potential and support our mission of making excellent leadership the worldwide standard. Remember, no matter what level or role, you can become more than you are today. We would love to connect with you as we build our community of excellent leaders. Until next time, we're sending you positive vibes for integrating these new leadership insights into your leadership and life.