Pulsating with Positive Leadership Energy with Nicole Greer

Join us as we talk to Nicole Greer, successful speaker, trainer, facilitator, executive and business coach anchored in transformational change leadership coaching & training programs, on the Seasons Leadership Podcast. Nicole shares her passion for positive leaders and actionable advice including a four-step process for how to hold your team accountable and powerful questions you should be asking yourself as a leader today.

Show Notes:

(1:32) Get LIT – Nicole opens the discussion talking about what it means to build a vibrant culture which include: Lead with clarity, Integrate integrity and Transform the ordinary. The leaders discuss the important alignment between Seasons Leadership and Nicole’s work.

(5:30) Nicole shares that the culture of an organization should be about the customer or client first. Nicole gives advice on how to lead up and align with the culture. The leaders talk about dark shadow culture.

(10:50) We clarify mission and vision. Nicole gives her examples – vision points to a time in the future where something manifests and mission is how we are going to be on the way to where we are going. The leaders agree that these two elements make the culture.

(14:20) Sometimes the turkeys are the leaders. The leaders discuss how to effectively coach teams. Nicole talks about how she wants to “coach people in” and then shares one of the most valuable things a person in their career can do.

(19:26) The leaders talk about bad leadership and how that sets an example too. Nicole shares her most powerful question in her toolbox and how to helps the blind spots fall off. Then we transition to a discussion on accountability. Nicole shares the four steps to holding your people accountable.

(31:30) The conversation ends with setting expectations and asking powerful questions. Nicole poses her leadership challenge to listeners. 

About Nicole: As principal coach and CEO of Build a Vibrant CultureTM, Nicole Greer helps individuals, corporations, government, faith-based organizations and non-profits become the people they were created to be through fulfilling a mission to work in teams, and exemplify VIBRANT LeadershipTM. Using transformational change leadership coaching & training programs, Nicole offers foundational tools and uncommon wisdom to Build a Vibrant CultureTM. Nicole is a serious entrepreneur with experience in coaching, marketing, mastering first impressions, learning & development and sales. Nicole is a speaker, trainer, facilitator, executive and business coach.

Resources:

www.buildavibrantculture.com

www.linkedin.com/in/build-a-vibrant-culture-nicole-greer

Join Debbie Collard and Susan Ireland, certified coaches and co-founders of Seasons Leadership, in making positive leadership the norm rather than the exception on Wednesdays on the Seasons Leadership Podcast. (Selected by Feedspot as one of the Top 15 Positive Leadership Podcasts on the web!)

And now you can join our community of values-based leaders on Seasons Leadership Patreon at Patreon.com/seasonsleadership. At our gold-level, unlock our exclusive Lessons in Leadership Column from our Resident Seasoned Leader David Spong, a lifetime member of the Board of the Malcom Baldrige Foundation and our Leadership Elements Series.

Transcript

Susan Ireland: 0:02

Hi, welcome to Winter with the Seasons Leadership Podcast, where we celebrate this time to go deep, to transform your leadership journey through actionable advice and personal stories that you can apply to improve your leadership and life. Today, I'm Susan Ireland and with my co-host and co-founder of Seasons Leadership, Debbie Collard, we thank you for joining us At Seasons Leadership. We share a vision to make excellent leadership the worldwide standard. Learn more at SeasonsLeadershipcom. Welcome to the Seasons Leadership Podcast. And today we have Nicole Greer. Welcome, Nicole.

Nicole Greer: 0:51

Oh hey, how are you, susan? Thanks for having me. I'm delighted to be here.

Susan Ireland: 0:55

Great. Well, let's start out by telling us something about yourself and what you do.

Nicole Greer: 1:02

Yeah, of course. So I have a company it's called Build a Vibrant Culture, and so I help everybody that I work with all the way from trying to recruit the ideal employee who's a good fit inside your organization, all the way to leadership development, coaching, all the things in between that help leaders get everything they need so that they can provide an environment where people get lit.

Debbie Collard: 1:27

I love that get lit.

Nicole Greer: 1:31

Everybody, just their ears perked up just then, didn't they what?

Susan Ireland: 1:35

Well, I want to know how do I get lit?

Nicole Greer: 1:37

Yeah, well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you. So again, we're going to build a vibrant culture, and if you were to look up the word vibrant in the dictionary or do the Google, it would tell you that it is pulsating with positive energy and emitting light. And so I have this little song that I learned. It says this little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine. I don't know if you two ladies know this song. Will it leave?

Nicole Greer: 2:01

Yeah, so I believe that to be true is that when you pop on planet Earth, you've got this energy inside of you and you can direct it one of two ways. One way is you can direct it negatively in the world and be upsetting to people and create darkness wherever you go. And I have this little sign in my office that says aren't you a little ray of pitch black? And so it's like you know, I know people who are a little ray of pitch black, but what you can do with that energy is you can be a positive influence and you can move in a way that gets work done, makes it fun. I mean, I'm big into, like, having a good time. I think work it might be a four letter word, but I think it's really fun and so I can help people get lit.

Nicole Greer: 2:46

And what we do is we want to do three things it's a little acronym I love an acronym helps us remember things Is the first thing we need to do is lead with clarity. I think a lot of people just want to know what are we doing, where are we going, why am I doing this? So if they just have some clarity. So I think if leaders slow down and have a really awesome conversation with the people that work with them, it will help. And to set proper expectations, hold people accountable, give them a little bit of leash to do it kind of their way too, I think is nice.

Nicole Greer: 3:20

And then the second thing is the eye in lit, and that is to integrate integrity. So I read a book by Fred Keele I don't know if you've heard that guy's name before, but you wrote this little research book and he in that book it said companies that have a character development program have five times return on assets. And so I thought why better figure out how to put character development inside organizations? So I went out and I got certified in this little tool called tilt and it helps people put are you a tilt person?

Susan Ireland: 3:54

I definitely am. I'm certified, that's so great.

Nicole Greer: 3:58

And so I was like, oh my gosh, if the whole world knew how to tilt, we could fix probably Israel and Hamas and Ukraine. We could just do so many great things. So character development is huge. And then the last thing is leaders don't manage, although they might manage occasionally, but, like leadership means that we transform the ordinary and that's fatigue in lit. So I do need to manage things and keep processes and policies and things going, but what leaders really do is they transform what's going on currently to a higher, better, more efficient, more prosperous thing. So that's what we need to do is help people get lit and get kind of in that mindset.

Debbie Collard: 4:46

I love that acronym and you. We are more aligned than we even knew when we invited you on the podcast.

Susan Ireland: 4:54

Oh good.

Debbie Collard: 4:55

So this is amazing. So both you and Susan are certified tilt.

Nicole Greer: 5:00

Don't you love that thing?

Debbie Collard: 5:01

Yes, absolutely, and we use it in seasons all the time, but also we're aligned around the four seasons of nature as a metaphor for seasons of life and leadership, and the winter season, which is when this podcast is coming out for all the listeners, is called transform, and so it's the T in your lit acronym there. So this is. This is really well aligned. I have a question for you, too, about culture. Maybe a comment and then a question, and the comment is this A statement that I fully believe is the culture of an organization starts with the leadership of the organization. As goes that leader, so goes the culture. And so when you're working in organizations around culture, what would you say to somebody working in the organization if they said well, I want to work in this organization, I really like this organization, but I don't think my leader is really aligned with the culture? What can they? What would you tell somebody or give advice to somebody about that?

Nicole Greer: 6:16

That they're in the culture and they don't think their leader is living it out. Okay, well, I want to back up one step, because you said you know the leader has to be in the culture, right? I want to say, really, the basis for your culture needs to be the customer or the client or the stakeholder that is receiving your products and services. So a lot of times and I'll tell you a quick story I'm working with a young lady, coaching her, and she's like my leader, pulled me in a room and wanted to know my personal core values. And I'm surveying all the other employees personal core values and what they believe and what they think, and then we're going to put our culture together and I said, oh well, that's a big mistake Because you might leave that company and she might leave that company.

Nicole Greer: 7:06

The culture has to fit the people that we serve first and foremost. So there's the number one stakeholder. For example, if you went to a very fancy hotel like the Four Seasons or the Waldorf Astoria or something like that, I mean the culture is we're going to take care of people and wait on them hand and foot, so like, if you don't like that, you can't work here because it won't, it won't be good for us, you know. So you start with the customer, so I just want to make that really clear, because I think people are confused about that. The second thing is your question. So I think what you have to do in this case is is you have to lead up.

Nicole Greer: 7:43

In that case and I think sometimes it's about having a conversation with your leader and what you might do is step into the situation and say you know, I'd love to have a conversation with you about culture, what you know, what is the culture here? You know, what is it that we value? What is the level of service that we're supposed to give our stakeholders, our clients, our customers with our products and services? How are we supposed to treat each other? You know, I just want to be really clear, right, and so in that case, you're basically asking the leader to discuss what their philosophy is, and you could say you know, the reason I'm asking is because I have one thing in my mind, but, like some of my interactions that I'm having, they don't match, and I want to meet expectations. And so will you help me understand what the culture is here? So I would ask I think sometimes leaders are so busy delivering outcomes and results that culture is lost. And they maybe they're, and maybe they just been there a long time and they're kind of grumpy or something you know and you have to kind of like wake them back up or whatever.

Nicole Greer: 8:51

But you know, I think there are a lot of leaders out there that aren't paying attention to the culture. That's for danger, yeah.

Susan Ireland: 8:59

Yeah, I want to explore this a little bit more because I haven't really thought about the culture starts with the customer. Now I really get customer service and all of that, but my head keeps swirling around, kind of back to your lit kind of acronym, that the leader just in, by placement in position, really sets the tone of the culture. So because people are following, following the leader, and so that could be their shadow. So if they're grumpy and they're, you know, whatever I mean, then it's like everybody's like in their shadow or it can be like just like what you said about lit, and so the culture just kind of evolves like we're a grumpy culture here, you know, or we're we're a more positive culture. So I guess I haven't talked more about how you resolve that.

Nicole Greer: 10:06

Yeah, so well, first thing is is, if the, if the CEO is grumpy and in their shadow, then and you realize that this is my bottom line advice is you need to get your resume together. I mean, I don't know that you can't. You can try to lead up, you can try to have those conversations, but if you found yourself in a dark you know shadow culture, and that's where you're at it's very hard, like you said at the beginning, to sway the culture. If you're not, you're not the head honcho, if you're not the number one person that can really do it. Now, if we think about all the brilliant, beautiful cultures that are out there, there's a leader who is intentionally deciding this is how we're going to be, on the way to where we're going, and so I want to talk about mission and vision for just a second, if I may. Can I do that? Great, great, okay, all right. So a big part of a beautiful culture is that there is a distinct mission and a distinct vision. And again, different places I go, companies I work with people are very confused about what a mission is and what a vision is, and so I want to define it for folks. So a vision is a point in time in the future where something manifests or occurs, or results or an outcome, and we have it on the, on the lifeline, I call it so, like on, you know, december 31, 2030, this is where we're going to be and we're going to throw a party, and on the, on December 31, 2030, we're going to get a new vision. The vision does not remain the same, because a business must evolve and grow, stay in the black and move forward. Right, so it's a, it's a point in time. So I'm going to give you a quick example.

Nicole Greer: 11:58

So I used to be in property management. It was such a good career for me, I had the best time. I was in it for like 20 years and I worked for a gentleman named John Gray and he cast a vision. He said we're going to be the number one apartment management company in the United States of America. And he's like well, we're going to be the number one on this date. And you have to say well, according to who? And he's like according to the National Apartment Association, and we're going to go through this process and we're going to win. And we won Because we, because again back to lead with clarity. We had so much thinking, fun winning, it wasn't even. And then we were like, what are we going to do next? So vision, all right, now a mission is how we be on the way to where we're going. So that's where the culture piece comes in.

Nicole Greer: 12:49

So, in this case, john Gray, who's probably one of the better leaders I've ever had in my entire life he was like, you know, we're going to have excellence in product quality, we're going to have superior customer service. And then we had scorecards and we had inspections and he inspected what he expected and, buddy, we were like a dog for him because we wanted to get that at a girl. You know that we were living up to his expectations. And so there was this culture of like, achievement and excellence. And so we all towed the line on achievement and excellence. So that's how we be in order to get where we want to go. And so the second time around, he's like we're going to go for it again. We're like, okay, and then after that we had to, you know, set bigger goals and better goals. So that those are the things, I think, that help understand a culture. Yeah.

Debbie Collard: 13:43

Or help create the culture said differently. Yeah, cause you're constantly creating it by how you show up, how you be, while you're headed towards that vision, right, so you're creating it on an ongoing basis and that evolves as well. And but it is about the leader. And I was interested in what you said about sometimes people have to make a decision, get the resume together yeah, I don't fit here, I don't belong in this culture, this is not for me, and that's okay. That's right. It's not always going to be a good fit Right.

Debbie Collard: 14:14

That's right, and you know I I talk a lot about.

Nicole Greer: 14:18

I have this little program called the vibrant coaching toolbox, and I talk a lot about the employee life cycle. You know, how do you take people through the employee life cycle in a in a fantastic way, and one of the things I say to bet to everybody is, like you know, inside organizations there's, there's so many different ways to do it. So I think I mean, you know, I think for a lot of people you know, in the outside organizations there's there's there's two categories and I hope this is not offensive to people, cause I'm going to talk about birds. I tried to find the most non-offensive way possible. But it's like, you know, you have Eagles and you have turkeys. I mean, and and I bet you, you two ladies are Eagles and your whole career. Did you just do more and do better and get promoted and move up? Is that true for you too? I think you do right. And then there are turkeys who are like in the break room gobble, gobble, gobble, gossip, gossip, gossip, talk, talk, talk. Are you supposed to be working? Yeah, I'm just getting a coffee, whatever. And so you've got two categories of people, and I think one of the biggest things to do inside of an organization is is to do this is to coach people in or coach them out, because again, and a turkey is going to bring, you know, like that, that darkness to the situation. They're going to bring everybody down the scaling scale. And then you know, when you have lots of Eagles, you're going to have a lot of great light inside of your organization. And here's the thing about keeping up the performance of people and doing employee performance development. Oh my gosh, so important Is that.

Nicole Greer: 15:51

You know, eagles resent the turkeys. They're like oh my gosh, did you see how I don't know whoever George, you know he's in the break room 15 times a day, he's eating donuts, and and then you know what leaders do is they're like oh my goodness, I need to get this done. I give it to George. He's not doing it. I know what I'll do. I'll go down and ask Debbie to do it, and so of course, debbie says yes, she does it with like Star Spangled banner. You know extraordinary great stuff. And you know, after a while, debbie's like you know, my boss needs to hold George accountable, right, and and that becomes the problem. So sometimes here's my point Sometimes the turkeys are the leaders. Yeah, in that said, yeah, so sad. So you either have to hang in there, get yourself promoted or get your resume together. I don't, I don't know that there's a better pathway than those two ways.

Debbie Collard: 16:52

Well, we have a. Our mission are how we're going to be as we're out in the world. Oh, awesome Is to make leaders excellence the worldwide standard. So, oh, in your vernacular I guess that's getting rid of the turkeys.

Nicole Greer: 17:09

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

Debbie Collard: 17:11

Getting rid of the turkeys who call themselves leaders.

Susan Ireland: 17:14

Yeah, or helping the Eagles who are acting like turkeys, you know. Oh, that's true, right, right.

Nicole Greer: 17:21

Yeah, yeah. Because see, here's the thing, you know what I said early about coaching men or coach them out, now my heart, my heart of hearts, is to coach people in, like, wake up, smell the coffee. I'm trying to remove your little blind spot right there. You know, I want you to be awesome, you know. And here's the thing in my career, when I was awesome, I was rewarded. Yeah, you know, I got. You know, and you, I never got a huge like bump in pay unless I took on a bunch more responsibility.

Nicole Greer: 17:53

But my attitude was like bring it on, you know, I'm ready to go, let's do it. You know, and I, in the whole time I was doing it, I thought I'm putting so many skills in my toolbox, mm-hmm, and nobody can ever take those away from me. A lot of times when I talked to people and they're like Well, they just keep asking me to do more, and I'm like excellent, yeah, do it. Yeah, because they can't take your experience away from you. That is one of the most valuable things a person in their career can do is gather experiences, gather skill sets. It's money, it's literally money.

Susan Ireland: 18:31

Yeah right, I've told some people that I coach. It's like you're getting a PhD Right. It may be a super, super challenging environment and it may be, in the long run, not the right one for them, but in the meantime, take what you can from it, learn what you can, because it's like a second, it's like an experience that you wouldn't get any other place and they're paying you to get it.

Nicole Greer: 18:59

Yeah, yeah, right, right, right, and you get benefits probably. I mean there's a lot of things and they off. They might sometimes you have pizza, I don't know.

Susan Ireland: 19:07

Yeah, yeah. Well, that mindset can kind of help you get through some really challenging times, because it puts a little bit of distance between you and the situation you know, so it's maybe not as emotional.

Nicole Greer: 19:24

Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I. I mean I bet you, you all have had not the greatest leader in your in your time. And I have one in particular that I think of and her name was Lisa, and whenever I tried to find her Because I needed something, I could never find her. Well, if she was in the building, all I had to do is this I Said, take a little sniff. I'm like, okay, wait, I think it's this way, and I'd go out and I go out some door and there should be out there smoking her marble lights and I'm like you know, I smell smoke, she's close, she's close, she's somewhere, you know, and she was just always outside smoking a cigarette. You need me? Yeah, I do need you, but I wish you would come in the building. Yeah, you know, and help us, you know. So I mean you, you learn, like, and the thing is, you know, you learn how not to be right right 100, and sometimes that is the biggest learning, and it's.

Debbie Collard: 20:20

You can always learn something from every situation and every person. It's sometimes hard to figure out what that is, especially if it was traumatic for you, but you can learn from it, and Often what we learn as you just said, nicole is how not to be. Oh, I don't want to be that kind of leader. There's still an example for you. They're still setting an example, but it's an example of what you don't want to be versus what you want to be, and hopefully you get a number of those that are what you want to be, so that you can Follow along and build on what came before.

Nicole Greer: 20:56

Yeah, I just couldn't agree more. That's absolutely true.

Susan Ireland: 20:59

So, nicole, can you give some of the our listeners who are leaders Some advice that they can take away and go implement right today?

Nicole Greer: 21:10

Yeah, absolutely. I'll give you a couple pieces I think are great. So, first thing I want to give every leader this listening is this is the best powerful question us coaches we were taught to to ask powerful questions and this is the best powerful question I have ever had in my toolbox. And I want to coach every leader listening. Here's the question Are you ready? What is it like to experience you that that answer, that question and hopefully you might have a little blind spot fall off or something and you're like, oh, I am a turkey or I'm an eagle, right, so I don't know, but I mean. That's the thing I mean.

Nicole Greer: 21:53

And here's the thing we only follow the leaders that we know at some level, like we have a relationship that we like, like and that we trust. And and the difference between me giving myself over to John Gray and doing what he wants me to do was like no and trust. And then I gave him all my discretionary effort. That's what I gave him. You know people say I give 110%. I'm like you can't even give a hundred. You don't have an extra 10 to give, you only have 100% and you're probably running somewhere between 70 and 80, depending on your mood, your hunger level, whatever. You know and and and, so I will give like, you know 97%. If I know, like and trust and experience my leader in an awesome way, I'll work my butt off. So I think that's important.

Nicole Greer: 22:43

So that that's the first thing is sit and answer that question what is it like to experience you? The second thing I would say is you got to hold your people accountable. I think some leaders are just scared or they've never been taught. I mean, I'm sure you ladies, when you're kind of, they're like you need to hold your people accountable. And you're like okay, I'll do it. And then you're like oh, this is uncomfortable, you know, and, and I, I'm from the south, I'm from north Carolina and like we just clean up after people, you know like we just Hospitalities, our thing. And if you're southern and you're a female, you just like, oh, they didn't do it, I'll just do it myself, you know. So that's the right thing to do. And then you say this thing bless your heart, which doesn't really mean bless your heart, by the way, but anyway.

Nicole Greer: 23:26

So the thing is is that you have to hold people accountable. So I I had a master coach his name was Dave Cowan and I was complaining to him and a coaching session one day and he's like, uh, I'm gonna stop you. I'm like, oh, okay. And he says, uh, you need to hold your people accountable instead of whining and carrying on like you're doing right now. I'm like, oh, all right. And he said here's the formula. And so he put it right in my hands and I'm gonna pass it along. Okay, so this is my love for all of you listeners. So here's accountability.

Nicole Greer: 23:55

First thing is you ask people Would you do this for me? Okay. And so Debbie's is like, yeah, we'll do it. Okay. Now, a lot of people think, there you go, we've got it all in place. But what leaders need to do is they need to say, okay, great, so let's talk through what it is you're going to do. So the first question in accountability formulas what are you going to do? Okay, now people will brush you off Well, I'll take care of it, don't worry. No, no, no. Let's talk through what you're going to do, because I want to make sure that I set expectations and that nobody's disappointed when this thing is done. Now I'm going to take a little bunny trail and tell you something from Don Carroll. I have all these really great people in my life.

Debbie Collard: 24:41

I'm so lucky. That's why leaders are so important.

Nicole Greer: 24:43

Yeah, that's why leaders are so important, everybody, Okay. So Don Carroll said to me one time Nicole, Uncommunicated expectations are a premeditated opportunity to be disappointed. And I said say that again. And so he told me again, and now I've got a them rise. But you have to get expectations in place, because the way that I would do some project is different from what Susan would do and different from what Debbie would do. And if we don't talk it through and plus, three heads are better than one everybody. And so you know, Susan's like we could do this, but Debbie's like, yeah, we could, but we could do this. And then me and Susan are both like, oh, let's do what Debbie's talking about, Because that's genius. So we want to do that.

Nicole Greer: 25:30

The second question is when are you going to do it? And so so you have to actually get a time and a date. And in our electronic calendar world I suggest you go okay, pull out your phone, let's put it in our calendar, but you're gonna get it to me Friday at two o'clock, and so now it'll send them a reminder and all the things. Well, the third question is how will I know it's done? And people again will brush you off. They'll be like well, don't worry about it. I got it, you know. And it's like no, no, no, I need to have it. I need to know, I worry, I worry a lot, you gotta send it to me. And so people say I'll email it to you. You say, okay, great, Now it's 2.30 on Friday and you don't have your stuff from your people.

Nicole Greer: 26:16

What do you do? I'm a 58 years old, so I'm kind of old fashioned in this way. But here's my thought Don't send an email, Don't send a Slack, Don't send a Teams meeting message or whatever that thing is. I'm a Mac person, everybody. What I suggest is you pick up the phone or, if you are in the same building, is you stroll down to their office and you present yourself. You say, hey, it's 2.30 on Friday and I'm looking for my report or whatever. What I have found is you only have to do that one time. And people are like, oh, the cochlear is serious about getting stuff done. Crud, I messed up. And then they'll profusely apologize and Jimmy cook up stuff and get it to you in a day or whatever. And here's the thing. It is uncomfortable and they might even think, dang, she's serious. But when they get in the car and they're driving down the road, they're like that's good, I work for a leader who gets stuff done, Not a slacker, and so that's my accountability formula. What do y'all think about that?

Debbie Collard: 27:27

I think it's a yeah, I love the accountability formula because it gives something tangible for leaders that they can go okay, I can follow these four steps, right, right, and they can write them down in whatever way works for them and I'm a Mac person too and then follow them along as they go and refer back to them. So I have a follow on question to that though. Okay, so have this client. And this client says I have trouble holding people accountable. Okay, what's going on with that? Why do you have trouble holding people accountable? Well, it seems hypocritical for me to hold them accountable when I'm not accountable to the things I say I will do. Oh Lord, what would you do with that client?

Nicole Greer: 28:12

Nicole, I would agree with him. First of all, I see why you struggle, and then I would say this is the question I would ask. I would say what do you call a guy or gal who expects something, a behavior, out of their employees but doesn't do it themselves? What do you call that person? And so in my mind, the word I'm thinking of is hypocrite. Yeah, all right. So my dad used that word a lot, but I would make him confess that he is this ugly thing called a hypocrite, and it is ugly. So I think I would make him stare hard into the mirror. Now the other thing I might do is pull out.

Nicole Greer: 28:52

Okay, so everybody, there's this thing called the tilt, and you need to call all three of us ladies to help you. But there's this sheet called the tilt factors sheet that the tilt lady, pam Boni, put together, and it is pure genius. I use that sheet. It's like mine is laminated and needs a nut fresh lamination. So on there it talks about 48 commendable character traits. All right, now the character traits can be underdone and they can be overdone, right? So the first one that's coming in my mind with regard to your example is like, there's the word disciplined, right, which is under wisdom, like you're a wise soul, if you are disciplined right Now, if it is underdone, if the character trait of discipline is underdone, it means you don't have to be a brain rocket scientist to figure this out. The word is undisciplined, right. And so that's where you could use that sheet.

Nicole Greer: 29:58

And in my coaching program Jean's coaching program I went through, they said when you're having a tough conversation with somebody, put something in the middle, right. So that tilt factor sheet. You just stick it under their nose or put it up on the Zoom or how it all looks, and say what trait is on here that resonates with not holding people accountable. You know, I don't know if they would pick disciplined or not, but that's a good one. Now, if it's overdone, it's strict, okay. So that's the little layout on the tilt factor sheet.

Nicole Greer: 30:31

So I don't know what's up with this leader, but maybe he thinks it's too strict, so he pendulum swings all the way to undisciplined. I don't know. But see, I would coach all in up and around and down and around, right there about disciplined. You know, tell me about a time when you were disciplined. Tell me what an effect on your company would be if all of your employees were very disciplined. You know, you got to just get the guy thinking about it so that he can snap out of it. Now I have another thought on why he's doing this, but I want to be. I want to honor the fact that I've talked a lot for a minute there. I almost don't, it's okay. I get very passionate about this stuff.

Debbie Collard: 31:11

No, that's good. That's what I was trying to draw out, so people can see okay, well, once I do this, then what's it look like in real life application? And so you definitely provided that. That was great, so go on with your next thought.

Nicole Greer: 31:26

Okay.

Nicole Greer: 31:27

So there's this other work that's out there and here's what I'm going to tell everybody. Leaders read. Okay, this is one of the habits of great leaders is they read stuff, or they listen to the book on paper. They do the YouTube, ted Talkies and all that stuff you got to, you got to teach yourself along the way. That's the problem with a lot of our turkey leaders is they're they're not disciplined to learn. Anyway.

Nicole Greer: 31:49

So there's this guy. He popped off the planet just recently. He was over a hundred years old. People said he was one of the wisest humans they've ever met. When you were in his presence, you could just feel how dang amazing this guy was. And his name was Thomas Keating and he's Dr Father Thomas Keating, and he gave lectures at Harvard. He ran a whole thing called a contemplative outreach, yada, yada.

Nicole Greer: 32:16

Well, he wrote a little book called the human condition, and what he says in this book is that every human on planet earth is addicted and that's the word he uses, that's the strong word addicted addicted to security, approval and control. And he says the this stems out of our childhood. So when we're little baby girls growing up, you know, like you know, I'm scared. Mommy, hold me, daddy, hold me, or you know, everybody in your life when you're five years old is telling you what to do every five seconds. And so at some point they say, put your shoes on, and you go no, so you're just trying to control something in your life, right? And then the third one, approval. Like my joke about that is is that, like, have you ever taken a kid to a swimming pool? You don't get to read that magazine you brought. You know, because every five minutes you're like watch me, watch me, watch me, watch me, you know, give me a score. How was my pencil in my cannonball? You know, it's just, it's relentless. So we're all addicted to those things.

Nicole Greer: 33:20

So this leader of yours that doesn't want to hold people accountable, I think it's his addiction to approval. Well, I don't want to look strict. Or it's his approval, his addiction to security. I don't want anybody to be mad at me, I want to be safe. I don't think it's control, because control he would be like get the stuff done in or else I don't want to go in any other direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, and when I tell that addiction thing to people from Thomas Keeney it's a little book, human condition. They're like dang. That's good and they can relate. They're like my favorite flavor of addiction is this, and they'll pick one of them. And it's true, I mean like you like one of them more than the others, but you like all three.

Susan Ireland: 34:04

This conversation about how to hold people accountable is a favorite that I have over and over again with people. Sure, yeah, there's lots of different twists and turns to it, but what I have found is your number one be clear and set expectations. That is usually the problem, 100%. So if you just start with that, then the other it seems like it's easier. Oh, I agree, yeah, but so setting expectations is it could be a job description, it could be what the outcome needs to be for a project, but I love the way that you described it Like no, no, let's talk about this and make sure that it's clear, and I even say, write it down.

Nicole Greer: 35:01

Oh, yes, 100%, especially if it's intense and going to last more than an hour. Right, and I'm asking could you make 12 copies? Yeah, how are you going to do that? I'm going to use the copier and help you write that it's not that thing.

Nicole Greer: 35:17

The stuff we're talking about here is put together an Excel spreadsheet with our top 20 customers and the top products that they have bought in the last month, and all that. You want to have a conversation about what that Excel spreadsheet is going to look like, because you need that so that you can put the deck together, so you can talk to the whoever's Right, so you know. And then you get it and you're like this is terrible, right. Well, just look right in the mirror. Congratulations.

Debbie Collard: 35:49

Well, sometimes it's not even the extent you said, right, Sometimes it's the leader going. I need you to bring me something that shows me how our customers feel about us.

Nicole Greer: 36:01

Yeah, we definitely have to talk about that.

Debbie Collard: 36:04

Right. What is that?

Nicole Greer: 36:07

What does it?

Debbie Collard: 36:07

look like I've never done one of those things in my life, so I don't know what. But they're not going to say that to the leader necessarily, so it's incumbent upon the leader then to say okay, like you said, let's talk about this. Are you clear on what you're doing? Why don't you repeat back to me what you're going to do? Tell me how you're going to do it? You know, and having the conversation is worth so much It'll keep you from wasting so much time later in the process.

Susan Ireland: 36:33

Yeah, we used to have this saying. I have been in this situation where the leader was not clear. It's bring me a rock, so bring me a rock. And then, as you bring a rock, and then you think that's not the right rock, bring me another rock. Okay, that's not the right rock, bring me another rock. You know, and it was like, oh my gosh, this is driving me crazy. So it really is. Leader has a responsibility to be clear, because the outcome is right back on the leader.

Nicole Greer: 37:01

And if you're listening to this and you're thinking, you know I'm a leader, but I got a leader and they're never clear. Here's my advice right there. So we I mentioned this thing called powerful questions. So go go Google up on the Amazon how to ask powerful questions, for a bazillion coaching books will come up and pick one that has a nice star rating and and then read this thing, because sometimes leaders are their personality and so we'll keep using tilt language.

Nicole Greer: 37:30

They're what we call an impact or a connection, and so they you know we could do, we could do this thing and what they need is these other personalities a structure personality or a clarity personality to ask them powerful questions so they can either see how this thing is going to go down, and if you ask your leader powerful questions, I think that is a especially if you have this, you know a leader like me and impact. They will appreciate it and you will become like their wingman, like, get in here and ask me questions about this idea. I got you know and and it helps get the clarity. So, like, how do you get the clarity? Lots of question asking is is key.

Susan Ireland: 38:15

Oh, I love that you bring the tilt into. This is fantastic.

Nicole Greer: 38:18

Yeah, oh, my gosh, I love that stinkin thing so much Okay.

Debbie Collard: 38:22

You two are fangirl and over here on tilt today. That's a wonderful thing to watch. Yeah, it is true. Well, we could probably talk about this for hours and hours. I get the sense that we could have lots to talk about, but we need to wrap it up for today. So, nicole, if you could only give one piece of advice to our listeners other than what you've already talked about today, what would it be?

Nicole Greer: 38:44

Give eight positive pieces of feedback when you catch people being vibrant this week.

Debbie Collard: 38:53

I love it. I love it, thank you. Very good leadership challenge for people and 2024 is our year of leadership challenges.

Debbie Collard: 39:03

So, susan, and I have taken them on about sharing more of our personal stories, and so you just helped us put another one out there another leadership challenge so we love it. Thank you so much for your time and joining us today and all this great advice and I took lots of notes myself and I know our listeners are going to get a lot out of having you on the show today. Thanks so much, Nicole. Oh thank you.

Susan Ireland: 39:28

And Nicole, how did people get ahold of you?

Nicole Greer: 39:31

Ah, easy, wwwvibrantculturecom, it's all right there.

Susan Ireland: 39:35

Great. Thank you very much.

Debbie Collard: 39:37

Thank you, listeners, for joining us today. We hope that you were inspired by this conversation.

Susan Ireland: 39:42

And we invite you to join our community on Patreon See the link below. There you will find more resources to help you on your leadership journey.

Debbie Collard: 39:51

Make sure to join us next time for more conversation about leadership excellence.