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HEY EVERYONE THIS IS A LITTLE EPISODE WE PUT TOGETHER JUST AS A BULLSHIT SESSION WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF OUR PASTS WE TALK ABOUT ADDICTIONS. AND WE TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE COOL BUILDINGS WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE BEEN APART OF. 

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STAY SAFE WORK HARD AND LIVE WELL.

Transcript

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Welcome back to the Iron River Podcast. It is 2023. We are all a year older this year. We're gonna be, and super excited to be taking our first episode as the podcast. And we got a guest with us slash possibly gonna be a co-host with us Les outta 7 32. He is been on a couple times. So good to have you with us buddy. And as usual, we got Kevin and his chipper attitude and we're super excited for that. So hopefully you guys can, you're a little gro this morning, ain't you Actually hearing my voice. The sarcasm that I had when I said that. You get grumpy when I get here before you, don't you? Yeah. Cause I have to hear shit about it. Oh yeah. Welcome back. Let's just jump right into it. Today's episodes gonna be quite a bit different. We're gonna pass it around, pass the talking stick around and ask each other questions about the, this crew that we've chosen and, ends the out. You hear the bad, the ugly, mostly the ugly is Kevin, but that's not here or there. We'll yeah let's get rolling. Pretty less. What what's on the highlights of your career so far? One of the biggest highlights that you've seen? Oh, shit. That's, I don't know. Every job's different. Every, even though we feel like we know the trade real well, we realize how much we don't know on each job. I'd say that one of the best jobs, biggest highlights I had was when I finally got humbled right the hell up. I was on a project in Boise, Idaho at a micron expansion working for Durham Greenwald, and I thought I was big Billy, badass iron worker, thought I knew everything, and just cuz I was on the welding gang when I started there. And yeah, I was producing as a welder. They ended up giving me more money. I was a, performing as a production welder should, and they gave me more money. One day. GF hit me up and he is Hey, LUS, I heard you have some connecting background. And I was like I wouldn't call myself a connector, I look at me, I'm bad as shit. At the time I was way overweight, I was drinking like a fish, so I was way outta shape. I said, yeah, if you need a Fillin guy, I can fill in for you, but I'm not like your permanent guy, cuz they were starting a second raisin gang. And the main raisin gang was a bunch of boomers. Great guys. You had a Eddie Sangster Aaron Phillips, we call him Apache, had a 75 Kerns more out of 4 33 Vegas. Just a bunch of good hands. Brandon Macklin outta Seattle, I believe. They just had a bunch of good guys. Really humble, good at what they do, and. We were going to the second one, and the foreman for that was a guy named Gilbert at a 4 33. I think you know him Buck. Yeah, I know Gilbert. Gilbert Elza. Yeah. That was the first time I got to work with him and they put me over there and it was just to fill him and they partnered me up with another 7 32 hand. But he's always booming. Cosme and I got humbled up real quick on how much, shit, I don't know. these guys were freaking, I was getting my ass handed to me and a couple weeks later they had a connector show up and he was a, an older gentleman. You could tell he was definitely a top-notch hand in his day, but he is getting up there in age and hadn't worked for six months cause he'd had a torn rotator cuff, or not a torn rotator cuff torn bicep that he just was healing up from. And by. I think it was by lunch or something. The next day he was like, shit, I can't do this. And Gilbert come over to the welding crew where I got put back into and I got thrown onto the second raisin gang full-time. He told me, get all your shit outta Johanna's box. You're not coming back. You're on this crew now. And just, that was probably one of the highlights of my career. Cuz that's when I, that's when I realized it really clicked in my head that you're gonna learn everywhere you go from different people and no matter how much of the shit you think you are, you're not the shit. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I found one time I brought Kev over to the raising gang with me. And we I was running circles around him and, and it was, I tried to humble him up a little bit and show him, show him a few tricks here and there. And yeah, there's just, there's people that listen and then there's people like Kev. And yeah do something, so you gotta pick your battles. But how was it? So this might be a question, this is something that we wanted to dive into for a while, but during, like when you had all those boomers and everything, obviously maybe there's a better way to phrase this, but what what's the pay differential throughout that? I Cuz you got local 75, you got 4 33, you got 86, you got 7 32, you got, what else did you say? Oh, he's from four 30 feet too. So what, how does that all work? This is something we kinda wanted to talk about for a while. The contractor can always pay more. There's nothing stopping a contractor from paying more. Shit, I was getting four bucks an hour over 7 32 scale as a welder. And then when I got shot over to the Raisin gang, they didn't take that away from me. And if you come in with 7 32, you were getting 7 32 s package Du at the time was paying a per diem that they didn't have to pay. It was a no subzone and they were paying sub. But those guys, I'm not sure exactly what all of them were getting. I know that the 86 guys were getting 86 scale and other guys were getting the other scale. It was, it all just depends on where you're from, how long you've been with the outfit, shit like that, and we had boomers come in. We had boomers come in and get dispatched through our hall and they got 7 32 scale. And worked for'em. And these guys were from all over the, we had people from all over the country on that project. We had guys from Minnesota, from Kentucky, from shit, all over they were from all over. But there was that other raising gang, they were all their hands at the time. I, I don't think any of'em are really there anymore. This was, a while ago, but yeah, no, it's the company can always pay more than the local scale. It's just a matter of how good of a hand you are and what you bring to the table, honestly. Yeah. Did you see any conflict with that, with some of the local guys that, weren't getting paid? What the boomers were any sniff. Not, you've always, you guys know just as well as I do, you always get the sniffling when it comes to that shit. But usually it's because that person doesn't usually not every time, but a lot of the times, as you guys know, that person doesn't end up sticking around too long cuz they're either not that good of a hand or they're not getting what they really deserve when they go somewhere else and get what they deserve. And then like on that job, for instance, like Cosme, he was on the bolt up crew and he was performing great and he was doing great on the bolt up crew, but he asked for the same money that his partner was getting and he says, Hey, I want the money he's getting, cause this is bullshit. You I'm showing him. And I'm performing just as good or better, and this isn't down in the other guy he was working with. He was a great hand too, but the company said, no, we're not gonna give you that. And he said, fine, then I won't transferred over to Gilbert's crew. At least I'll enjoy my job. Cuz he's a connector. He's a great hand. Yeah. And they said they've transferred him over. We called Gilbert's crew, the reject crew because two of the guys were run off a bolt up crew and sent over there. I was on welding crew and then kept bouncing back and forth until I was a permanent fixture. And a lot of us were just guys who, didn't get along with other people. So we were called, we called ourselves the reject crew That's been the thing that we've, I mean it has to, you see it a lot. Like you'll be sitting on like bolting up, right? Same damn job. One guy's from a different local. What's the difference? You know what I mean? I can understand if you're a shit hand, yeah, I get it. But if you're busting your ass we ran into an incident when we were premises still, weren't we? Which job? I don't understand, George. I got fired. Oh, I think so. Yeah. I think we were still apprentices, but Kevin was, while basically a lead connector. Yeah. Cause at the time his partner had was having some issues, health issues. So Kevin was pretty much running the raising game. For the most part. Mike and I was down there which he's that guy sharp as attack. And he was like the super, the foreman I guess. But yeah, Mike was running the gang and then I was just handling the air stuff. Yeah, and I Kevin was going through partners right and left, and St. George for Utah. For those that don't know, for the listeners that maybe don't know where Zion is they, it borders Arizona and it's within an hour and a half drive to Las Vegas. We got quite a few locals right there in that little area. It's a pretty much the bottom part of Utah. And so we had some guys come up from Vegas and Kevin, I you can explain it. No. Yeah. So the fellas come up from Vegas, which was fine. Some guys come up to throw some deck and I think the deck foreman was from Vegas. And we had a guy in our gang, he was phoning, he was from Vegas. Good folk, man. But after a while it got to where we was. All the guys that were performing anyway was like, Hey, we want that Vegas scalp. Those guys are getting it. And, we're doing just to get a job. We're better than what they're doing, so why can't you pay us to scale? Basically they just told us no that they couldn't do that. And I ended up dragging up a little while after we, I don't know, we did a couple buildings and I went somewhere else, but that kinda shit's happened all the time. They'll bring in a guy from, wherever, pay him a whole bunch of money. And then usually the other guys that are in that gang that are, just as good or better of a hand, they're like, Hey, if you can pay him that, why don't you pay us? That usually never works out that way. During Greenwald always did though when they come out to do the airport, they were really good to work for. Everybody was getting taken care of on that job. I'm pretty sure that was a good one. We had a lot of local hands pissed off with during Greenwald, but I think at the time they weren't used to traveling companies coming in and doing jobs. And a lot of our guys weren't used to a job at that size. We were setting, the trusses, we were setting were 255,000 pound trusses and they were 250 foot long and 27 foot deep, something like that. Just single truss at a time. We weren't setting them, like multiple trusses, like what going on down at Intel. But they were, I mean there was a lot of guys bitching and moaning about this and that and da. And it was honestly, you some of it was definitely they had a point to it, but the other stuff, it was just, the guys bitching to bitch. But dur, in my opinion, during Greenwald, I don't know about D Isabel, but D Greenwald, I loved working for'em. They just wanted you to give them an honest day's work for an honest day's pay, and if you deserved more of an honest day's pay, they usually had no problem giving it to you. Yeah. Yeah. I never had any issues with d Grunwald. They're, they've probably been my favorite outfit to work forever. When they come out to Salt Lake for that airport, that was really pretty good. They took care of us and I liked the way that they handled everything. Honestly. I thought they were pretty good. I think a lot of the guys I was working with went to that job. They went from the job. I was on to that one, if I remember right. Yeah, I remember some of those names you were saying sounded pretty familiar. I'm terrible with names. Probably put face to it a little better. Our whole gang, except for me and my partner was, they were all boomed out. What was their names? Fuck. That was a long time ago for me. I don't remember now. Right on. What about you, buck? You've been boomed out a bunch before. No I kinda, I like what Les said. It's there's times where it's humbling and then there's times where, maybe you realize okay, I'm a crest wrench. Inside of a box of The what now? Boxes of just broken wrenches, like I, I feel as ironworker, if you can be like a journeyman, an ironworker is a crest wrench, right? Like you've you've got the ability to do multiple different things. Like you can be a, you can be a hammer, you can be a wrench, you can be a wedge. You know what I'm saying? You, you can't, yeah, you can basically do, you can be a chipper when you're welding, like everything, right? Sometimes like when I, when a few times I have moved out, like you'll run into guys that, they show up thinking they're Billy badasses, and then you're like, okay, you'll get working with them or whatever, and then you like, tend to not wanna work with them anymore because just the way, I don't know if it's the way we're taught. I I do understand we have the same quote unquote same apprenticeship, but. The things that are taught outside in the field is really what we take from like our careers. And I feel like everybody learns something different, whether it's good, whether it's bad. I'm sure I have a bunch of bad habits too. Not very many, but I'm sure I have some real humble in he No I'm joking. I know I have several things that I could be better at, but like that going into another local and being able to learn their different ways of doing stuff, and taking what's good, taking what's bad. I think that's cool, but okay. I still consider myself a cross wrench, and sometimes you'll show up and there's just a bunch of just regular wrenches there, so I dunno. Yeah. I thought it was a great analogy, Sure. Yeah. You'll see too usually, a lot of the, it usually comes down to respect, I mean if boomers are sh making waves and pissing a lot of locals off, if you really look at, a lot of times it's just down to respect, they're not showing the local guys respect. Yeah. And that's what I've seen whenever I've seen boomers come in our local, and this is just speaking in, in terms of our local, whenever I've seen boomers come in and it raises hell, it's because those boomers come in and they're just kinda like the. Arrogant, rockstar, and they're everywhere. It's not just putting one, one local in reference, it's just, they'll come in and just kinda step to the side, boys, we're here to show you how to do this and that. And that's the attitude they have. Guess what? The locals are gonna be like, Hey motherfucker, we were doing this a long time before you got here. So yeah, we've ran into that. Definitely. Yeah. Clay Can, on one of our episodes last year he mentioned the, how do he put it? The, they show up wearing their costumes, right? they got their hard hat and they got their suspenders and they got their pants rolled up and this and that and he's like, they wear the costume and then, you start working with them and you realize they're just another hand, like no difference in just because they put a costume on or or they don't like. It's just same iron work is pretty damn simple. You look at it on the spectrum of things, so I liked that analogy he used back then. It was pretty good on the costume. Yeah, put on the costume he said. So Kev, what's been some of your experiences that like with partners, like where, what are some of the things you've liked about certain partners? Some things you haven't liked about certain partners? I'm not talking about your partner either. Let's see. I would say that my favorite thing about partners is when you get one and you guys find that page that you're gonna stay on together and that's where you're at. You guys work together and you get it done together. My least favorite thing about working with somebody is trying to fucking battle with them probably. I love the race, I love the, I'm gonna show you up. You show me up that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about that guy that doesn't give a fuck about your end or what's going on your side or trying to help you out or, you know what I mean? When you guys got a point, you're racing, that's fine. But when they're trying to race you to the point to where it just fucks everything up, instead of letting their end come down and controlling it, they just let it come down and it fucking slams the clip and all your shit gets rattled and you're trying not to get beat the fuck up all day. That kind of shit's pretty terrible. The other thing would probably be them just not knowing what really needs to get done. I think, when they have, when they're seeing something different and. They're just stuck to it and that's the way they want it and that's how it feels. And then it just makes everything fucking harder. Probably just experience. I think the biggest thing too is working together. I've had a lot of partners, where you guys get on that same page with each other and it just flows super well, and thorough and I would connect. It was just easy. I knew what he wanted, he knew what I wanted. Everything was just easy, simple. And it was fun. You just bullshit all day. You don't even really work. They're just fucking hanging iron and running your mouth to each other and having a good time. Those are always the best time when you're pretty well just getting paid to talk shit and have fun. oh yeah those are the best days. Those are the days that you go to work for, they're fun That's what gets you there. Oh, Kevin would be a millionaire if he got paid to talk shit. Probably would be I'd be poor as well. Poor as am, but I think the other fun part's probably when you get somebody that's green too and you get a, show'em a bunch of shit and then, you're teaching them how to do it and you're explaining some shit to'em. And that was fun. Like the you stop seeing lights turn on in their head when they start figuring it out. And then they, you see'em later on, on a job and they're fucking doing. You see'em do a little trick or something that you showed'em and you're just like, yeah, fuck yeah. Watching'em progress. That's pretty fun. Yeah, it is. Watching you grow was good. Yeah. Those of you that don't know, I've connected like three beams in my life and dropped four spuds. So two of those spuds dropping spuds. That shit's funny. I remember I was hanging iron with this guy that broke me in soup and I was fighting my end probably for no fucking reason. And I had one in there trying to fucking make a bolt and I almost had it. So then I threw in another fucking SD and I'm prying on both these sds and he come up behind me and started, motherfucker me, tell me what the fuck I was doing. I said, oh, I almost got it. And he says, lemme see that he handed my spud wrench and just fucking threw it. If you can't get it with one, what makes you take, you get it? With two grounded with having two sds, you only get one now. Oh, shoot. I'm a funny old boy. You think I could talk shit? That motherfucker's got I think we should get him on here too. Oh man. So one thing I do want to talk about, to lead into next Beat's episode, but Addictions, obviously they're very prominent in the, this trade. I don't know about other trades as well, but I know construction in general. Yeah, it's probably a pretty, pretty common thing. Yeah. You're beating your body up, you're up early, you've worked late, and that kind of shit's probably. So the question I have for both of you guys I never, and I'm not bragging about this or anything, but I never had any, issues with an addiction or anything. But the question I have for both of you is, What, at what point were, did you, could you see yourself falling into that? Could you see it like, now looking back from like your sobriety, could you see yourself falling into that? Oh shit, there's the, that's where it clicked and shit went awry from just being a good time to turning into a, oh shit, I have a problem. Can you see that, that I don't know if it's like a certain day or if it's like a certain instance. The reason why I ask this is because with the people that have issues with substances or, abuses or whatever I hope that this message can get out to him like that. Maybe they could stop and think for a second oh shit, yeah, there is a day and maybe I do have a problem and now how can I find the help? And so that's why I asked that question, just to preface it a little bit better. Yeah, I would say so. I don't know that I can think of a day or a moment or something to where, that's when it changed. But I think it, it starts out, you all just sitting around and it's like a, just a fun thing to do for the day. You guys come back from lunch or something and it's oh, here have this little fucking gag, or whatever it is, and, either that or you're going to the bar at lunch or, shit like that. And I think that when it starts to be more of a habit thing daily thing, a routine thing as opposed to, oh, hey guys, it's fucking Friday. Let's let loose a little bit. Something like that. I think that's probably, for me anyway, when it was starting to become more of a, an addiction thing, when it was. When I was bringing it home with me, when it wasn't work stuff anymore, and it wasn't fun stuff. It was, every day kind of thing. And then end of the evenings and days off and stuff like that. I don't think it was more, cause I don't know, I always had a pretty addictive personality. I liked everything in as much of it as I could get, and so it just started with one thing and went to another and another, and fuck, next thing you're just fucking strung out. Was there a time where you thought did you, maybe it was right when you decided you, and I'm, if I'm asking like, too shitty a questions. You, look like, shit, up or whatever. But I'm seriously interested in this cause it's something that I've, we see all the time and unless I extend that question to you. Was there a time where you saw. Like you, you realized, oh, shit. Or how did you fall into the trap of it turning from just fun to, oh shit. I, Russ is drinking like a fish and just, I was easy. Go on a diet So me, I was raised by iron workers, and I was blessed enough to be raised by iron workers. And both my parents were major addicts, they were major addicts bad. And so I stayed away from a lot of that hard stuff. I dabbled with the cocaine here and there and shit like that, but I never really got into the hard stuff. But the bad stuff for me was the alcohol. I've, I was raised around that. That was the norm. You bust out a Budweiser with your cereal or something, and that was normal. Some hard shit Bud I never got into that. I'm not saying I never woke up in the morning without the hair of the dog. I never got into the alcohol so bad where I had the shakes and my body physically depended on it. But mentally I did. In 2012, my dad who was an iron worker as well, he was major alcoholic. He was in, he was clean from the other stuff. He had been for since for quite a few years. I won't get too far into my backstory, but my, my brother had also passed away when I was a teenager and when I was a teenager, I could drink with my parents. They'd rather me drink with them than go out and get arrested with my buddies. And I found myself, drinking to, just fit in and be cool and shit like that when I was a teenager. And then when I was an iron worker, I was just drinking to drink. That's what iron workers do. Saying in our apprenticeship back then was, if you don't have two DUIs on a divorce, you're not a journeyman. Oh, I've heard that one And then as I got, it was so bad in around here, my cousin even ended up asking, can I make up for a divorce with another D U I because I can't afford divorce, And they we, it was, that was a joke, he but as it went on, and then after my dad passed away he'd committed suicide and because of, the heavy drinking and just the lifestyle he lived, it finally got to him and he called it quits. And from there on, it just turned into, I was using it to. Just get everything to shut off so that I could just not have something rolling around in my head for once. And then it got to where, it went from, like a beer, one or two nights a week through the work week to where it was like I needed a beer at the end, right at the end of the day to unwind to my wife was about to leave me. I didn't realize she didn't tell me this until I was sober, but she actually had divorce papers ready to go. And then what finally got me to quit was I got pulled over one night and I wasn't drunk, but I definitely shouldn't have been driving. But the cop let me walk home. And in the town I live in, that is unheard of. You do not, that doesn't happen. And in my head, with those lights behind me, all I was thinking was, fuck man I'm depressed all the time. I feel like. I can't perform at work because my body's beat up. It just hurts all the time. And I didn't realize it was cuz of the weight I'd put on from all the damn drinking and just the depression was hitting me so hard that I finally, it clicked in my head. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I'm tired of feeling this way. And that's when it clicked. Not so much that night, but that night was the cherry on top like Kevin said, I don't know when it really started that, I was thinking that way, but it was mainly just the. Just the transition of finally slowly starting to realize that Les, you've tried everything to try and fight this depression, and one thing you haven't tried is quitting booze or antidepressants. And I was like, I ain't about to try antidepressants. I've heard bad shit about those, even though now I've learned they're not that bad if you do it properly. But I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna quit drinking and haven't had a drop since and it's been the best choice I ever made. Six definitely gets nice when you make that choice and you stick with it, you gotta want it to be able to stick with it. You could have your whole life burning down around you and blame it on anything else. Blame it on whatever. Like me, I blamed it on my wife, or I blamed it on my dad dying, or I blamed it on my childhood. I've never once turned the finger around and blamed it on me and. I just, you gotta want it for you and nothing else. You can't want it for anyone, anything other than you and your own being. And for those who are listening that really do want to, that are struggling, that's if you wanna do it, you gotta take your children out of the equation. You gotta take your wife or husband out of the equation. You gotta take everybody out of the equation and only have you there. It's the one thing you have to be selfish about. Are you talking about sobriety? Yeah. Just to, yeah. Just to finally, to actually make it work. Yeah. It's definitely pretty easy to get wrapped up in it. And it seems like after, you blink and it's fuck, where did those last five years go? How did they get to. Where I'm at now, like when I first got into the iron workers I dabbled in a bit, little bit of whatever, but it was more recreational, I think. I've always drank since I was, a teenager like you were saying. And then you get around this rowdy crowd of guys and, I was a young bucket ass kid. And I think a lot of it was trying to fit in with these guys and be one of the, one of the dudes in the crew kind of thing, and I think it definitely made it easier for me to, I don't know, jump into that, that kinda lifestyle, and. It's not like there was lots of bad dudes around me or anything. It only takes one. It's not their fault. There was plenty of good guys around me I could have jumped in with anyway that weren't, on drugs and shit like that. But the drug stuff was fun. And that's how it of started for me, I think. And after a while it was just that's what I was going to work for after I, I remember I'd get there in the morning and I'd go find that dude hey, come here. And that's what he was going to work for. And then he'd go home and then was, man, I can't wait to get to work tomorrow to get another f fix of that. And fuck, after a while now that's all he is doing. And then everybody at work, they don't, it changes their whole, I think it changes their whole opinion of you. After a while, when you go to say something and, Hey, I got an idea. It's almost like you, you get shut down for it cuz they're like, ah, this guy's fucking strung out. We don't wanna listen to him. He hasn't fucking slept in three days probably. And fuck up. Don't listen to him. He is good hand, but he's fucking, he's on dope. Don't listen to him. I got tired of that too.

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31:00

So what what are some things like you guys do now to what are some things now that you do to so I those addiction addictive habits that you, like you said Jeff, you've always had'em right? And like you said that as well or less, but what do you guys do now? Like to. I don't know, combat that or what do you do to kinda, the shit's still there. It hasn't gone away. That stuff isn't gonna change. I Ironworker still drink beer, ironworker still party hard, right? They call it But I so what are some things that you guys do in your life that kind of, I don't know, what keeps you on the straight and narrow? I guess that sounds stupid. How do you stay clean and sober? Yeah. I dunno. You just fucking try your damnest. It's, do you guys have like things like ticks or something that you do to remind yourself like, Hey, this is, or I don't know. I'm just, I'm curious cause I, there's gotta be something, some sort of and maybe there's not, but like I said earlier, like I hope that from what you guys are talking about, like that we can help get those that are struggling, staying sober and clean. That they can find, some sort of tricks or something that you guys do. Cause you guys are successful at it. I can't imagine it's easy. I'm not saying that at all, but I, you guys, whatever you guys are doing is helping you stay clean and sober. And I guess, what are those tricks that you guys, I always have these long ass questions. Yeah. Why are my questions so damn long? You're just taking the bucket route to it every time. They're like, trying be crazy. How do you guys, what are your guys' tricks to, to keeping yourselves clean and sober and being successful at it? I would say I would, sorry, go ahead, Les. I was just gonna say for me early on, it was finding out what my, what triggered me to want to drink. And it was always at right after work, just to get that unwind and instead of getting a beer, I'd get An iced tea or a green tea or something, just something different. But I found myself always going to a regular iced tea cuz it had that bitter taste. And then I had to completely change, like how I operated. I quit carpooling for a long while. I had to quit carpooling with people for quite a while. Cause all my carpooling partners drank, and then after work, I had a gas station I'd always stop at for my smokes or for my beer or whatever, and I had to change that routine. I had to change cuz I went into that gas station for the first week and I noticed I was always struggling cuz I had a normal path. I'd walk in the door, second aisle to the right, took me straight down to the flavor of beer. I liked, whether it be Modelo or Budweiser or Miller Light, whichever three I wanted that day, that aisle took me there. So I, I'd go into autopilot and I'd always struggle. So I had to change. The gas station I went into and everyone always told me, go into your, go back to your hobbies. Go to your hobbies. While I found out I always loved turning wrenches on shit and, working on, getting old engines running or getting an old truck going. While I found out, I always did that hand in hand with a beer and that wasn't working for me. Cuz I get frustrated and want a damn beer to sit there and stare at the engine, drink beer and be all like, how the fuck am I gonna make this work? And that's what led me into like the leather work. I did that just for more of a therapy in my head and it's turned into more since then. But that's what really, I found a new hobby, something I can learn and grow and change and that's what I did. I don't, after that it's just, fuck man. There's some people I've, I really wasn't one of'em, but there definitely is some people where. It's an AA saying of one day at a time, just focus on that day. Fuck tomorrow, just focus on today. But there's some people that gotta live by the hour, they're all like, fuck, I just gotta think about this hour right now. And there's a lot of truth behind that, even though that's a, that AA saying that everybody hears about her na saying one day at a time, one day at a time. But there's a lot of damn truth behind that. And it's crazy, okay. What do you I don't know. I, it depends. So the part of the part that was difficult about when I got clean was probably just trying to maintain maintain my life without it. So I remember when I cleaned up, It was hard to go to work every day. It was hard to come home. It was hard to stay on track because number one, I was so fucking tired all the time. After you quit doing meth for a while, I think it takes your body a long time to fucking reboot and to just feel normal again. Probably the first two, three months of it, I think I was just exhausted all the time. Didn't wanna move, didn't wanna go to work, didn't want to eat, didn't wanna do anything. And the shit that was hard for me was I was used to being awake all night. And so I'd go to work in the morning and I'd be fucking exhausted all day it felt like. And I'd get off work, still feel exhausted, go home, eat something, lay there, try to fall asleep and that didn't work. Your brain's running a million miles an hour. So then I'd get up. and I'd just go out for a drive. I'd drive around all the time, drive around, listen to music, find songs that kind of helped me express how I felt, and I could relate to. And I did that for a long time. I'd leave the house at middle of the night and JustCo drive around for fuck hours, just listening to music, trying to clear my head. After a while, that got a little easier. But then I think the biggest thing that's helped me throughout all of it was finding something else to do with my time. Like you were saying, less instead of carpooling with the, those guys that drank don't do that. And so for me it was instead of hanging around with that, Influence the guys that I knew I could get that from, that I could go drink with and go do drugs with and stuff. It was, I just quit talking to'em and quit associating with it. And slowly it got better, and as far as maintaining it, I think I just found value in my life that I value more than any of that. And so it makes it easier to stay away from the drugs, I struggled now with alcohol more than anything. I quit drinking, back in May, and that's been the hardest thing to stay away from. Since then. I've been clean for, fuck, I dunno, five years this year, I think. That's gotten easier and easier to stay away from. The thought of going back there to doing drugs is, fuck, I don't know. I I can't even imagine doing that shit again. I feel like you just value things a lot better and, I value my kids and I don't want to go through the bullshit. I went through trying to get back, being strung out again. The drinking part that's the tough one for me anyway. That's the only thing. That's the only thing that you quit and everyone, when you tell somebody you don't drink, they look at you and say what you don't drink? It's the only one you actually gotta explain. Yeah. And you tell somebody, oh, I don't do meth. They're like, that's good. You're not supposed to, you tell'em, oh, I don't drink. They're like why not? You don't want a beer. It's no, one, one beer for me. Isn't one beer one one beer for me is. Probably another one a couple days later and another one, and then it's a couple shots. And the next thing you know, Kevin's drunk for a fucking six months. Again, as every I don't know, everything I knew it was always in excess, so when I was drinking a lot, it was first thing in the morning, especially on day off. Fuck, days off were fucking dreadful. Cause it was like, what am I gonna do all day? My wife's there, my kids there, I love my family. But it was like, what am I gonna fucking do all day? First thing in the morning, run to the kitchen, pour, pour a shot, take a shot, pour another one, take a shot. I'd have about three shots before I even made breakfast, and then I would just drink all day long and it, fuck, just got bad. Just drinking all the fucking time and. I wouldn't drink at work. I did for a little while, but then that wasn't working out very good. And I didn't wanna do that. So then I was controlling it enough to where right when I got home from work, that was my routine I'd go to work all day and I'd come home and the first fucking thing I'd do when I walked in the door was go over to the bottle pour big old three finger, fucking cup full of whiskey and then just drink it. And then that was like, I'm refreshed I'm back to being even. And next thing it's fucking one o'clock in the morning and you're like, fuck, I need to get, I need to quit drinking. Go bed. You just felt like shit all the time, man. It was getting pretty bad on my inside parts. It was fucking all that up. That was probably the light bulb that clicked was side parts. Yeah. My liver was getting pretty fucked up. They was telling me, and I think that was what really clicked big for me was, I was like fucking 30 years old. I was just about to turn 30 and how am I having signs of like bad liver stuff, it's like I'm 29, I'm 30 years old, I can't have, it's different when shit catches up with you, it, that's when shit starts clicking and it was like, I just started thinking about my kids and being there and not being there drunk or dad, and decided to quit and fuck. Has that been a battle that is hard to maintain? That's when, for me it's a lot of the times it goes down to the. Let's just get through today. fucking Warren. Crap. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. The biggest thing that I think helped with that too is my man quit drinking a little bit before I did and we would drink a lot together and he went to rehab and he got all cleaned up and then that, I think that helped put a lot of pressure on me to do it. And I don't know, just you just try your damnedest, stay away from it. Find something else to do with your time. That's cool. You had your dad there going through the same trick you were going through. Man, I wish I'd have had something like that. I'm not saying that you know you. Oh man. I wish you had, I wish I had what you had. No, everybody's different, but I think that's awesome. You guys were able to make that check together. I, it's, I know it saved, I know it saved his life. He was getting really bad and. Doctor he went to the doctor one time and they said, I can't remember exactly, but it was basically, you can either keep drinking the way you're doing and be dead in a few months, or you can quit and try to fucking live. And I think that is what kind of turned the light on for him a bunch. And he has, he's fuck, he's almost got a year sober now. Oh yeah. They get stuff. The drinking is so accessible and so it's less frowned upon. You see somebody, you go out fishing with your buddies and they bring a 12 pack, you know the fuck, who cares? No big deal. that's, I think that's why it's so hard to quit that. And the other thing too is, fuck I, I had to quit. Was, I'd been trying to quit smoking for long, for years and years, and it just never, I was never able to stick with it. And so when I quit drinking, I was smoking a lot, but then fuck, it was like, they were just hand in hand. It's I'd wanna smoke and then it was like, fuck, I want to drink. And then, I was a habit when I was drinking a lot. I'd smoke a lot. It's like you're saying with turning wrenches on your engine, you, once you start learning something or you start doing something while you're in that state, anytime you go back to it, you start thinking about it again. And you gotta relearn habits and relearn how your mind works. And to do that, you gotta fucking reset everything. It's hard. That's interesting. I've always wondered how how you fall into that trap and stuff. And I'm not saying that I'm not saying I'm perfect at all, by all means. I got my advices too. But that's definitely and to add what you said, the, they only ask you, the only one you have to explain is the alcoholism or why you don't drink. And same goes when you say you're Mormon. You have to explain why you're Mormon to everybody I don't know why everybody asks you why I'm not drinking. I'm Mormon. Why you're Mormon. Why are you drinking So it goes hand in hand, right? But no that's interesting to to learn. And I, like I said, I hope that helps somebody get on that path and. I know you've helped a lot of people lessen, get re, get into the right steps of where it needs to go. And Kevin, I'm sure you've probably chatted with people too and your story's probably helped with as many people as anyone else, but it's I know that our trade suffers and like you said, and when you were sharing your example Les I think depression plays a big toll on us, right? We don't think about depression as a, as iron workers. It's not cool to be depressed. Like you, you can't be macho iron worker man and not feel happy, right? So I think we try and drown it out to find the happiness or, cover it up. And, I think the iron workers just try and solve their problems when it's, maybe it's unsolvable or you need to, you need something else besides self elixers or whatever. So it's interesting. We live life on life terms, life's terms, ma'am. That's what one thing I've had to learn is that cuz I've been sober five years now and I had, the biggest thing is I just had to come to realize was, dude, you're living life on life's terms, man, that's gonna throw some shit at you. It doesn't suck. Absolutely man, it sucks. Life. Life has its moments where it sucks, absolutely sucks. And you just wake up that day and you're like, shit man, can I just go back to sleep? I don't wanna deal with today, but you gotta get up and deal with today. But always just keeping your head, man, tomorrow's gonna be better if I want it to be. And it, it's just, and then once you get your head clear. Those bad days are never gonna go away. When I was drinking, it was every day was like, man, this is gonna be a shitty day unless I can have a drink. And then after I quit, it was like, shit, I quit in September, so I had, two weeks later, I was best man. Not best. The, I was in a lineup of a dude's wedding where he considered everybody the best man. But the, I was in one of my real good childhood friends' weddings, and, drinking was involved with that. That was two weeks later. And then the holidays, and then all this stuff that I never lived life sober for. It was fucking terrifying, and then I had my sponsor, who is also my old drinking buddy slash you know, pretty much best friend, and he just told me less, you're living life on life's terms. Yeah, it's gonna suck, but, just get used to it and you're gonna realize that it gets better and it gets easier. And I've. Later on, I didn't believe him. At first. I was like, fuck you Ben, man, I don't see what you're talking about. That's getting easier, dude. This sucks. And then, yeah, one it just finally clicked. Eventually it, there was, it just finally clicked where holy shit, I'm actually enjoying this and I don't have to worry about, waking up and saying shit, what did I say to my wife last night? Or shit, am I gonna make this work? We all still have to worry about what we said cause you never know what you said, but at least we remember. At least we remember it. And now I. Yeah. I still got my issues, but it's not, I can't sit down and talk through or anything like that. Or I don't have to worry about whether I'm still gonna be drunk when I show up to work the next day. And that's from the night before. I never drank at work or before work, but there's many times I showed up still just lit up from the night before. Cuz I didn't put the bottle down till three in the morning, yeah. Shit. We was I had a good story about that. It's a good story now. It wasn't very funny at the time, but I got, a buddy of mine called me up to he, let's see, there was this job out in Fresno. He was gonna do a casino. He called me up, say, everyone come out here. Hang on iron. Yeah, let's go. So it's it's like the week or the day, couple days after Thanksgiving. That's what it was. I was driving, I left Salt Lake. And I took a different route. So I'm heading to Fresno and I went through Vegas and between Vegas and that stretch where you get into California, traffic was backed up. Hours, hours worth of traffic. And so I started drinking. I brought the bottle with me and it was like I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna get into it until I got a little closer, but sitting there for two hours and I was, nah, fuck it. So I started drinking a little bit. I ended up getting into Fresno at about, I don't know, 11 midnight, something like that. And started drunk driving this whole time. Oh, that was the one that was, I wasn't drunk yet. My definition was drunk wasn't a 0.08. It. How well you could stand up and still, and I still think that I was a really good drunk driver, honestly. But I'm sure it wasn't, you shouldn't drink and drive, but I remember you had a Saturn you tore the mirror off of, right? It, yeah, I fell asleep. that car. I was driving home, devona, I fell asleep and when I woke up to the rum rumble bars, I turned the wheels, some damn sharp. The car went fucking sideways. And then I ended up going over some of those mile market posts or whatever. Then, oh, the other time it was there and I hit something else. Anyway, back to Fresno. So we get to Fresno and I hadn't seen this buddy of mine for a couple years and we was pretty excited to see each other. And so we started drinking together, right? We gotta go, work starts, next day is at seven, it's orientation, right? So next thing we're drinking and it's six o'clock and it's fuck, we gotta go. We gotta go to work. And so we load up in the truck and we drive over to the job and we get there and we, I meet all the guys. And it's day one of the job. Nobody's even gone through orientation yet. So we're sitting in it and they tell us, all the rules, normal shit. And then they say there's gonna be a drug test and, no big deal. I've been clean for a long time. That's probably one of the best things about getting clean, is you can go to new jobs and you don't even think about if you got pee or not. It's just, it's a different feeling, But then they said that there's gonna be a breathalyzer and we looked at each other and was like, oh fuck how are we gonna get outta the fucking breathalyzer? And anyway, we ended up blowing and. It was way too fucking high. Anything over zero was zero tolerance, but I was in the, I dunno, one something, he was 0.08. He was right there. They let him drive us home. It was a big deal. But they ran us off before we even started Before we even fucking started. I got ran up and so did he. And then everybody else after us knew their was breathalyzer, so we probably helped out a lot guys. nobody knew shit like that. After you get sober, you think about it and. Just moments like that kind of help you stay on that good path. You start thinking about all the stupid shit you've done and all the stupid shit you did that embarrassed you and everybody else, and you're like, fuck, I don't wanna be back to that. And you also some of the shit you do embarrasses your local too, you don't know if you're gonna be working somewhere where they're gonna remember that. Ah, I can't remember that guy, but I remember he was from Local 7 32, and his other buddy from Local 7 32 is the same way. Those guys from 7 32 just must be a bunch of douche bags. It's, oh yeah. It reflects on a lot of different stuff, and you don't think about it at the time. You think that it just affects you and you're cool with that. It's no it's just affects me. I don't give a shit what you guys think, if that's what you think about me, whatever. But you don't even sit there and think that, fuck, that's reflecting on everyone around me and anything I'm associated with. Yeah. That's the trouble of being in the union is it's not just you. And it's pretty easy to forget that, especially when you're fucking everything up around you. You're not out there working for an unorganized company. When you're in, especially when you're in the union. You're representing you and your brothers and everybody in your local, and everybody in other locals. You're walking around town with that union iron worker t-shirt on and your fucking bumper sticker, whatever it is, and you're out there, say you're driving like an asshole, cutting people off, flipping everybody off, drinking, driving, doing dope, whatever. You're not just representing a company or yourself, it's your whole local. And then after a while people start thinking different about it. I didn't even think about it like that. One of our old coordinators or no old coordinator or old, what was red? Just a, I guess he was coo. I don't know what his title would've been. I don't know. He was just red, just one of our apprenticeship, I guess he was a coordinator or whatever, but the Weldon instructor, welding instructor. Yeah. He's a for long. Anyways, one of the things he used to always say was we're our own worst enemies. And I never thought about it like what you're, what you guys are saying until you just said it, but I guess that's one way we are our own worst enemies, especially in places like where we live, right? Like we're, there's a lot of eyes that look at us like, we're already trash cuz we're blue collar people, and, but you add to that fire with the fuel of, doing dope or driving like an idiot or flipping people off, or just being a regular cab you you you added that, that stigma that's already there. But, people judge you before they even know who you are. So I never thought about it. It's pretty interesting. I think one thing that definitely needs to come back is a certain level of class that iron workers have, and I think that's been lost along the way and it's been replaced with rowdiness. It's been replaced with running your mouth, being Billy Badass on the job, chest up. Fuck all these other trades. You guys are trash. And we're the iron workers and we're the best. And I think in, especially in today's world I feel like that just costs you more jobs than anything. And especially in Utah, like it or not, the church controls a lot of fucking shit in our state, probably in too. Being in Boise, that's just another Salt Lake. Or maybe we're just another Boise. I know they're another Salt Lake the church gives us a lot of work. You get on these jobs with the church and here comes old boy that's always drunk and today he's super drunk and the church is doing a walkthrough or whatever and this guy's falling down and you gotta hide him at, at the time for some of the guys, you think it's funny and oh fuck do you see him? He is all fucked up and this and that, but if, as I've been in the trade longer and I've gotten a different point of view in it, that shit's not funny anymore and it's more of a, fuck I, I wonder what that just cost us or what those people saw that are gonna go back and think when they get back into their office and they're gonna be talking and, realistically, you should be out there shaking hands and kissing babies. Trying to sell yourself and sell your local Yeah. And get more work and and holding that professionalism that we should have. That's right. When you're up there and you're do doing your job, number one, doing it all fucked up is risky in itself, but doing it to where you're just careless, that's not really going to get you guys more work. And that's not how these general contractors see it anymore. They don't wanna see these guys show up, boomed out from outta state and blow out on a breathalyzer first day. That's embarrassing to everybody. And it costs you a lot of work. And that general contractor looks at that company that they just, signed contract with and they're like, fuck is this who you guys are gonna have come out here the first day you guys are here, your foreman and your fucking guy got ran off fucking being hammered drunk. It just it, I wonder just how much it costs the company and the local. And I'm not, I don't mean, in that moment, I mean in the long term spectrum, it'd be interesting to sit down and talk to somebody that was like, that could tell you why we didn't get that job It, because fucking on the last job this and this happened, and on that job, this and this happened. And I think if we were able to see the big picture of all of the bullshit that goes on the job that we think is funny. And a lot of it is, but there's a difference there and there. I think there's a line to be crossed that when something's funny and you're fucking around with the guys and you're doing that shit, and then it's now blown up bigger and then there's safe meetings about it. And this is. Now turned into an issue and guys are getting ran off from it or shit like that. We had that issue last summer, or was it the summer before? I think it was last summer down there in Lehigh. Now I won't say the job or anything cause those that worked on it should be ashamed themselves. And they were members of our local but they the connector, the, I guess he was one of the connectors lead connector. Nope. Dave of topping out shows up with no, the dress, summer dress on or something. And I didn't know about it. I don't go to the topping outs as organizers. Unless you probably know as well as I do. You're not really not that you're not invited, but that you have other things to be doing. And so I didn't hear about it until a few days later, but I saw some pictures and the guys are laughing and joking and I'm like, you gotta be shitting me. I'm like, we as organizers, you're out there every day. You talk to, 15, 20, 30 guys maybe 40 guys a day on good days. And you watch a lot of people work that are from the non-union sector. And sometimes I sit there and I look at some of our guys and this ass hat that was doing that kinda shit. And I'm just like, there's more professionalism on the non-union sector than there is in our own group of men, our own rank and file members. I don't know what happened to this kid who even was, I think he was a boomer or something. I know technically who it was. Oh, he was, yeah, he was a boomer. Was he a boomer? Oh, he, yeah, he was a boomer. Fine. He came into our local and this the problem that I have with it, yeah. Cause it, that is why I have a problem with this. Cause he was a boomer and I would've had a problem with it as well if it was a local guy. But he comes into our local where, it's no secret that local 20 sevens is a smaller local. We don't have as creative a grip on the work as say, Yeah. Market share shit. Yeah, market share. So this we don't have as great a grip. Wanted to save Vegas. I think that's where he was from. Vegas. Yeah. He, and so he come in and does this kind of shit with one of the, the general contractors. That's been pretty good to us over the years. They've offered they've gotten a ton of work with them. They do quite a bit of work and. And so to see that was like a slap in the face, like you come into our local, you disrespect our local like that. But then also you disrespect our trade and our international cause I mean that shit, the one day you could have probably got away with it any other day of the week but the one day you show up like an idiot and you've got, it's a high profile job. It's one of the biggest projects that's went on Utah County in a minute. And you do that on the day of popping out when all the eyes are on you and your partner. It's and the fact that our guys thought it was funny and thought it was hilarious that this guy did that kind of shit. And I was just like, yeah, where, when are we gonna learn to stop load the bullet into the gun and pointing it at our own damn foot and pull the trigger? It's so here's the, I think his, here's the bigger problem, I think with all of that. So the kid that did it, they told whoever, I don't know who it was exactly that told him to do it, but they said that it was basically like popping your cherry. Cause that was his first job that he topped out on. And so he was a younger kid didn't know shit about anything probably. And I think he was probably more so just balling whatever. Whoever he was looking up to was telling him, oh hey, I'm topping out. This is what you do and you gotta wear it. You wear a dress or whatever, and that's what you do. And I don't know, maybe that's what them guys do in Vegas or somewhere else. I don't know. But I didn't say that it was necessarily that kid's fault. I think I look back at a lot of the shit that I did when I was. First starting out, a lot of it, you're just going with the flow of whatever crew you're in, whoever you're listening to, and it doesn't make it okay, but and I think I guarantee any, anyone I lost, and I knew you as an apprentice, Kevin, and that was a long apprenticeship, but I don't, I didn't know he was an apprentice less, but what I'm getting at is I think don't think you can say that though. I don't think you can say it was he was going through the motions or it wasn't his fault. Because if you were told to wear a dress on a day of topping out because it was the thing to do, I think you'd have been like, that's the stupidest thing I heard. Or you'd have been like, no, that's it wasn't been, it wouldn't have been for me. You have a little more professionalism is what I'm getting at. And that's the thing that I think you lack so much right now. And you said it perfectly, we just hold our, we don't hold ourselves accountable, like it's, yeah. It is funny to move off and it's fun to have a good time at work and, bullshit with your partner and you just cruise through the day or whatever, but at the end of the day, you gotta look back and think, okay, how did I just screw my local? Or how did I just screw the local that I'm working in? And that to me, the showing up drunk to work or whatever and showing up, blah, blah, blah. That's bad in itself, but that's a ripple in the pond, that's stuff we can give by, but when you do stupid shit like that, it's like a, you throw a rock in a pond and it's, it ripples the whole damn pond. It's, I dunno, I wish that I would've figured this out a lot sooner in, in my iron work career that. What you do affects the local and affects the contractor. And, it changes the image of everything. I didn't start thinking like that till I got clean and sober and really started to take a lot more personal pride in what I was doing, rather than just that. I feel like you have this automatic pride of being an iron worker, of just having the job that nobody else will do. And so I think that automatically you're pretty prideful. But for me, after a while it was I was taking more pride in the fact of I can do this job really well and I can do it really professional. And I'd go to these safety meetings or whatever and I'd talk to, the general about our pick plan. And I was able to, present a plan that was thought out and relay that really professional and To where they're not looking at you like you're just a fucking iron worker that's just trying to hang iron. And you're not telling them that they don't know what the fuck they're doing. You gotta play their game and it's their fucking sandbox. We're just playing in it. They want us to do all sorts of stupid shit for something that, we didn't think was necessary. But it doesn't matter. They do, so you gotta fill out the fucking paperwork. You gotta present it to'em. And if they don't like it, they're gonna fucking send it back and say, you can't do that. Yeah. And the whole time you're just fucking pulling hair out, trying to figure out the fuck you can do what needs to get done and make them happy and make it all work. And it's hard to do that when guys are showing up and they don't give a fuck about the image, about the big picture of the local and the job and that contractor, because that's the shit that, that you heard. That's not you. Nobody cares if you are gonna tarnish your own image, you can be that fuck up. That has million chances and fucks up all of them. But it, I wish I would've figured that out a lot sooner. That's probably something that I think apprenticeships should probably focus on a lot is, the, you guys are joining a really big spectrum of a workforce and part of that is, is you're held to higher standard off the job, on the job, all of it. And I don't mean just in the way that you do your work, the way you talk to other trades and, driving like an asshole in parking lots. I ain't saying that you gotta be fucking the golden child or anything, but, I feel like there's not a lot of thought in what people do when they're. At work before work starts, after it starts. Things like that I think affect a lot of things about future work and your vocal. And complacency, I think could be considered possibly a big part of it. You get a lot of our members, especially the younger ones, I was no different. We we felt like we were the shit, hey we're the best cuz we're union iron workers. And really, you get that mentality and you think you're untouchable cuz you're the best. And in all reality, you gotta treat every job that the contractor you're working for gets as if it could be the last, because like Bucket said, the non, the unorganized workers we talked to, they. The company itself that they're working for may not show the professionalism that we would expect out of one of our contractors, but the hands themselves are not out there treating themselves or putting themselves off like they are the shit, they're putting themselves out there like today could be my last day. Cuz in their world they've gotta treat every day like it's their last day. Cuz it could be they got nothing protecting them other than themselves. So they hold themselves up there and present themselves in a professional manner on the job site. And we all need to take a page out of that book because we're representing, if they're wearing their contractor shirt, and one of them's rowdy or something. Not everybody's gonna really look at it the same way. They're just gonna think, oh, that guy's a douche. But then. You get like a group of'em, they'll think, they'll start thinking, ah, that crew with that company, they're this and that. But if they start seeing like a whole group of guys with 7 32 shirts on, or local 27 shirts on, they're gonna say, wow, those are union guys. Those union guys are, they're a bunch of douche bags, and then you get, when you're thinking you're the shit on a job site, that customer, like you said, Kevin, we're playing in their sandbox. And it's not the fact that they asked us to play in their sandbox. We asked them to play in their sandbox. We're the ones that approached them and requested to bid that project. We're the ones wanting to get on their jobs. Yeah. If we wanna play in their sandbox when we get there and we break all their rules, they're not gonna remember that guy that we were trying to hide because he was still drunk. They're gonna remember those union guys. Yep. Everybody it's in general. It's not gonna be that one person. Yeah. They're gonna remember that company, but they know they've been in the game long enough. They know that those same guys were working for that last company too. It wasn't this company. Like for say, I was working for S M E and I was working with a bunch of turds, not that they are a bunch of turd hands, just their attitude. they go work for D on another job and they know D SME are totally different companies, but they remember all those guys and it's all the same pool of guys and they're all like, man, that, everything we do affects everybody. And I wish we would take more of a page out of the unorganized workers' playbook of, today could be my last day. I gotta make sure it's not, yeah. And that's not to say that there's not idiots on, in the non-union sector as well, but. Yeah, but I, so to transition to this, out of this and into something else, I have a question that I wanna ask with all of the buildings and could possibly wrap it up. All of the buildings that have been built since, iron workers formed their first union, or even before all the buildings that ever been built in the world what would be one of the buildings you guys wish you could go back and I'm not talking current ones, but maybe a help, but let's go current ones. What would be some of the buildings you guys would like to have been a part of? For myself like in our lifetimes or in past lifetimes or like when, just anytime any building that you, you look through a history book and for instance, one of my, one of my things I would love to have been a part of is building the Eiffel Tower for some reason, I think that is just the coolest building because of the way it's, it's just, it's fascinating to me that they were able to do that with the limited technology that they had at the time. and I'm not talking like, we're not gonna build the pyramids or anything, obviously. I was saying like, what would be some jobs that you guys would want to go and be a part of? If you could you could jump in a time machine or you could go up there now or whatever. Which would be some that you guys, for me, the rifle tower would be one. Look, I don't know if I could just think of one. I. I don't know. I think anything prior to OSHA would be super fucking awesome to see, it would, any anything osha, anything before that, would probably just be amazing to, to watch and see. I don't know. Mountain Bridge comes to mind. I think that would be, something just fucking that's probably the, my biggest thing that I try to look at whenever I'm going somewhere and I'm driving somewhere new, you drive across these old fucking badass bridges that are fucking, you can still see rivets on and shit, and you just think about what it took to build that motherfucker, 50 years ago. Hundred 50 years ago. However, shit like that. I don't know any, anything that's old. It is pretty, pretty interesting for me, I think. I don't have a specific project, I think just something real somewhere old. Yeah, but you less, I mean go ahead and I'll give you some more of my ideas. What I think for me, I'd say probably the two that really come to mind, just cuz of the, like you brought up, I was thinking, like the iconic, you know the some of them old New York buildings or whatever, like the World Trade. Yeah. World Trade Centers, anything like that. But really once you brought up the Eiffel Tower, I think the Brooklyn Bridge or the Statue of Liberty. Yeah. Just cause you think about that timeframe and. The advancements that were happening on the Brooklyn Bridge. That was the first time they'd used galvanizing and stuff like that. And that was the, there's so many firsts on the Brooklyn Bridge between the galvanizing, the way they braided the wire rope, the suspension bridge the way it was, and you got all those other old school ways of doing stuff that you just don't see anymore. And that thing is still standing and used by the city of New York, daily, and then the Statue of Liberty. You think of that back in that day. It's not like today. If it was built today, they'd either have some big cranes on barges or whatever out there doing that, or they'd do it by helicopter. How the heck did they do it back then the way they did? Yeah. And then it'd be all copper, copper clouded or whatever. However, that structure is built. I know the outside's copper, but just to be a part of something like that, and. Knowing, like the Statue of Liberty for instance, that's what's welcoming all the people coming into our country, that's where they would check in and sign in that they are, coming in for citizenship and stuff like that. It's just, it's pretty cool. Yeah. Iconic for sure. I think mine my top buy I've thought about this question for a long time and I, the apple towers definitely the top one. That's number one. I don't know why that is so fascinating to me. I was watching this cartoon with my daughter you guys probably, it's called home. It's got where they, the little aliens invade or the United, or it's all, everything's the United States, but they invade like the world, right? And they put the apple tower on this big bubble and then it tips over and it's just like carrying through houses. And for some reason, that's my favorite part. But anyways, seeing the Apple Tower, I've always thought that would be so cool to be a part of. There's no deck in it. So I would've had to do something else, but it probably wouldn't have been very useful. But that one that I think World Trade would've been cool to see be a part of. And I imagine those guys that were a part of that, and when that tragedy happened and everything, I think that, that was like super, just a terrible moment, but also a lot of New York buildings that have been in the past. But yeah I don't know, man. Just the, there's a lot of cool shit out there. And I like those ones in Dubai, like we talked about yesterday. some of the tallest buildings in the world that like, I wouldn't think could be built. And how in the hell are they building'em, you and like those people that are standing on top of those that, that kahar or whatever it's called, the. I, I'm not even gonna try to say any of their fucking names. There some of those buildings that are in Dubai are just massive and defeating themselves. And like you, they see the pictures online and it's like they're sticking up past the clouds and it's like something so cool. Fuck, one's like a mile tall or some shit, isn't it? Yeah. So what's the tallest building in the world? I'm pretty sure it's in by the tallest building in the world's. The one you built. Yeah. That ego. Yeah. But no, I, I don't know. I've always thought about that and I kind think that's kinda interesting. What else you guys, I think any iron job out of outta country would be super fun. You. And out of country. I don't mean Canada, like overseas. Somewhere fucking totally different. We was talking at breakfast yesterday going Israel and fucking hanging iron there or some shit, like fucking, can you imagine how fun that would be? That'd be, I think it'd be pretty challenging to get through like the language barrier. Obviously that's funny you say that. We have a, on our Instagram page, we have a follower and I, I probably am not gonna pronounce his name correctly. This is how we got on this conversation yesterday morning. I'm gonna find his name really fast. We got a listener in Iran. Yeah. We have a listener in Iran, which I didn't even know all the built buildings I. This might just be how ignorant I am to other civilizations, but his name is Ali Sut. I think we, we've communicated back and forth a few messages. I'll have to post a picture of the messages, but like you have to I have to, Google translate what they're saying. But I was looking through some of his pictures and he's got some obviously I've done mostly deck and that's what, he has quite a few pictures of his this deck. And it, it fascinated me and even Kevin made the comment like, it's the same, like the deckings the same over there as it is here. And I don't know why, but It looked great. Like all his studs were straight. And to me that's what's important, right? Your deck straight, your studs are straight, looks good. That's, it's like an, like a connector, like an iron like a connector that he's able to put all the bolts in the holes, like I'm sure that's fascinating for him instead of just two and then run away from that. Didn't happen very often, but I just thought that was really cool that Ali reached out and gave us a thumbs up. And that, on the op I assume that's probably about the opposite side of the world. That's about as far away from Utah that you can get. But shout out to Ali for what he's doing out there and, stay safe and everything. Cause I wonder what iron work is like in those other countries, so like in America we have osha, right? What do they do? Les, what do they have in other countries that regulate? The way they build stuff. They've all, lemme pause you for a second. If you are listening from, I know that we've got listeners from, United Kingdom, we've got'em from, Switzerland all over the world. So if you're listening to this, send us a message. It has to be English. Sorry, I speak Spanish too, so if you wanna shoot one over in Spanish, I can handle that, but yeah. English or Spanish. But let us know what, we would love to talk to somebody out. Come on the show. Yeah, that'd be great. Take your brain. So just reach out our Instagram is the, with the podcast on Instagram. Go ahead Les. Sorry. But yeah, no, every, not every country has their own, you think like Australia they've got something, I don't know what the name of it is, but it's at the caliber of osha. And then Canada's got theirs, which is, got their own stuff. Most. Developed countries that are, have a lot of, structure to'em, have something like that. I don't know the names of all of'em, but then you look at like underdeveloped countries, you think of what does Afghanistan have right now after, I'm sure it was building up there was the presence, the other country's presence there and then helping'em structure it. But now that everybody's gone and the Taliban's taken back over, what do they have now? Did they keep that in place? Then you look at like, where that guy's from Iran or even certain areas of Pakistan, what do they have? That's something we don't know. Like it would be cool to know what they have, if there is anything protecting them, if there is anything actually protecting the workers and you know that there's countries out there that don't have anything. And it's just a matter of which ones. And then also the ones that do have it, how well is it enforced? Cuz you look at here in the US and you got OSHA laws and all that stuff all over. And it is, in full force. But how many inspectors do they have in your area? How well is it gonna be? Idaho has seven OSHA inspectors through the whole state. That's it. I don't know how many are in Utah or other states. Each state's different on how well it's enforced. But I mean it's just crazy to think of how it might be. Yeah. Kevin, how does it work in those other countries? I don't know man, that Australia, that's another one that, what's that building called? That looks like layers. The, that opera. Yeah. That's another cool one I think would be kinda cool to work. That's a, that buildings for some reason so fast just cuz it's not a square box. There's nothing square on that thing. It's impressive. It's a feat. Thumbs up to those guys that built that in Australia. Impressive. Yeah, it'd be pretty cool though. I just imagined, being up on the iron, waiting for the tree to get sent to you and you're working on a crew of guys that you can't even communicate with. You're from fucking Utah, USA in fucking some other country. You can't even talk to these guys and like that fucking bill if you trust them, if he'd be hanging that piece and the one hanging above you or if they can do it like that, I don't. I was just gonna say, I was working at Chobani in Twin Falls, a big yogurt plant there. And they actually, I was there a little while after they first built it and they had a lot of French and German workers there working with us. And I'll tell you what, man, that is a weird experience. We're putting platforms and equipment inside this building. The French, these French guys were the ones who fabricated it, designed it and all that. So they had all the know-how on how it worked. But maybe one outta 10 of them could speak English and it was very choppy. Oh geez. So I had to at the time, I don't remember it now, but I knew how to say left up, down, stuff like that in French. Or I mean I had to learn a few key words just cuz it got to where I was always like no, you gotta come over here, go to the right, go to the left or whatever. And then they'd start cussing me out in French and I'd be like, all right, we gotta have a powwow real quick. And then I would pull out my phone and do Google Translate. How do you say? How do you say left? How do you say, up, down little bit, stuff like that. And then they started slowly teaching me a little, and then I would start slowly teaching them a little. And then I got a case of the red ass and Jug up a little while later. But here you are here, you're with your partner. You're like, we, and they're like, your partner, your English partner thinks you're having a good time. And these guys are just like, he's saying yeah, you're single. Okay. We, your partner's yeah, we they're talking about Wewe was. No, that that's fascinating. I actually had the opportunity to go to Puerto Rico was it last summer? No, two summers ago. I dunno. I know it was but I had the opportunity to go to Puerto Rico and help with the organizing drive down there. And when I got there, like being fluent in Spanish, I was like, yeah, this will be pretty easy. I got there and the Spanish that they speak in Puerto Rico is nothing. What I remember Spanish shouting it's about 500 miles an hour. And they're saying words that I've never even heard before. And I'm just like, whoa, the hell. So I've talked to'em in English. They speak English perfectly fine. But anyways, the work, meaning it was so Puerto Rico's a, part of our, one of our states I guess, or how does that work? Territory. Territory, that's right. So I imagine OSHA governs there too. But it didn't seem like there was that much of a presence of osha. I wouldn't imagine so. I figured hell, I wouldn't OSHA be out here, but never thought about that. So maybe they are. There's never, I never, they just don't Maybe they're bought off by the contractor. Maybe. Could be. I don't know. I think that if I was to ever go out on a vacation overseas somewhere, I think that would be, everybody else would be trying to find, all these fucking iconic places to go look at. And Kav would be wandering downtown, trying to find the crane, watching how guys fucking hang Iron Wait, everybody be taking pictures of the fucking, whatever fucking building that's been like 200 years. Kevin's over here watching these fucking guys in the flip flops fucking throw deck. Every time I sh we're watching shows or whatever, I see like a show pop up to me how they show like a background of the city or whatever. Oh yeah. I'll be like, oh, tower crane. Count the tower cranes real quick. And Oh, there you go. They're smart workers for sure. Doing something. I tell you what makes my old lady pissed off is we'll be driving down the freeway and I'll have some sunglasses on or whatever, and I'll be looking out her window. I'll be looking at this fucking job or this crane or whatever, I'll be fucking busting my neck, staring at it and she'll look, she'll say something to me like, what? What? Why are you looking at me like that? What am I doing? I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't looking at you. I was, there's a fucking over there that I was just trying to see what them guys were doing. She gets pissed up. She, I'm over there just fucking in Lala land all deep in love, staring at her. And she turns around and there's a fucking job site behind her. I spend more time looking at shit on the side of the road than I did. Looked at the road. Yeah. I don't wanna admit that, but it's bad. Oh, it's true though. Everywhere. But straight in the car seems like you can't even go. We'll go somewhere and I'll be putting my eye down the fucking handrail, Chicken, wild shit like that, running any hand on it. Make sure got all the birds off of it. Fucking looking up at the ceiling. God, look. Oh, that bolt stuffed the wrong boy. Fuck. We was at a sun was doing a, like a flag football thing over at the rec center all summer long. And I'd go over there every Monday and we'd watch, and I'm sitting in the stands, in the gym. And I look, I'm looking up at these beams and shit and I just start chuckling. The always what's so funny? I saw they fucking. Put their bolts in backwards over there and this one's missing a bolt. And she's just are you freaking kidding me, Kevin? Our son's over there doing something and you're fucking in la land staring up at the fucking ceiling. Fuck. You're right, dear. Sorry. Oh, when something stands out and grabs your attention, it's what the hell, Yeah. I'm missing bolt's a big deal. She didn't understand that I can't walk into a Lowe's or Home Depot or Walmart or anything and not inspect their bridging and see how straight it is. See what other things, had going on. It's impossible for me. My, my wife used to get in my shit. Cause I used to do the same thing. I'd walk in and I'd be walking around looking up. She's what the hell are you doing? Oh they're bridging. It's crook as shit, honey. fuck. Ours would never look like that. Yeah. We have to cut out, put it in again. That's funny. Alright guys, I Appreciate you coming on us and doing this little bullshit session with this. It's been fun and I hope it's been informative. We need get into the, little harder topics, but I'm glad that, and I hope, I'm glad we did, and I hope that the information that you guys shared help somebody you know that's struggling and I hope that they know that we're we are always here to talk to myself. Kevin's hard to talk to but he is, he will listen occasionally. But reach out to us at the Iron Work Podcast Instagram page. I can get you in touch Les is okay with that. I'm sure he would be. But I can get you in touch with Les through that. If you need someone to talk to he can get you in touch with, help you find a sponsor or whatever. And Kevin as well. Yeah, the only comment I have left is, you were saying that you're looking, learned for jobs and stuff. You're looking at those jobs and your sunglasses on or whatever. Oh yeah. This surprises me that head, the size of ears you can turn But uh, no, I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for being here and appreciate all you're doing. It's definitely our trade's gotta grow and it's only gonna grow cause we've got guys like you and Kevin, Les and all of our listeners, and I appreciate, everything you guys are doing, taking time outta your time to kill on here and be a part of this. And even if we are just talking to ourselves, we're still having a good time. We're talking, we're building buildings like they say, building buildings and tearing'em down faster than we can put'em together, or whatever that's saying there, I always screw up saying, I don't even know why, say, saying I don't ever give em. Stupid fucking Deckers. But you guys got anything else you'd like to share? Whatever. No, not really. All I'd say is, just hold your, take a look at how much professionalism you're presenting yourself as how much you're showing yourself as a pres professional out in the field and bring that bar up. If that bar's down here, bring it up, bring it up higher if you have to. Just show that professionalism and if you need help with any sort of, substance, if you're struggling, reach out, get help there. You'd be surprised how many people around you are there. And the only other thing I'd say is, With our little bullshitting session we just had here, it got me thinking. You don't see that in job shacks at break and stuff anymore. Everybody's on their phone. Why don't you put your phones down and start having those bullshit sessions at break and lunch again? Cuz then these stories can get passed along from one generation to the next. Yeah. And talk about shit. It's important. Not talk about stupid shit. Cause we do talk about a lot of stupid shit and our Shaq talks too. Yeah, that's all are usually the good stories though. Kevin, what you got for us? Oh man, I don't know buddy. I'd say probably just try to stay clean, try to stay sober and you're represent more than just yourself when you're walking around town and you're in your t-shirt and your hat and, Driving around with your buddies or boomed out in a hotel, whatever it is, you're representing more than just yourself in that job. It's bigger picture and it's easy to forget about that. I've done tons of stupid shit to where I was a really bad image to everything and, I wish that I could have been thinking like that years ago that it's not just you that you're making look like an idiot. Yeah. Right on. That sounds good. Thanks for listening. Checks out next week. We're gonna have another get episode. So give us some more information about substance abuse and everything. So great for you guys. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you later. Hey y'all. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Check us out on our Instagram page at the Ironworker podcast and let us know what you thought. Yeah, stay safe, work hard, and live well.