WE'RE GUNNA RECOVER OUTLOUD SO OTHERS DONT SUFFER IN SILENCE

WE SPEAK IN THIS ONE ABOUT NORMALIZING A TOUGH TOPIC. BROTHERS AND SISTERS WE NEED TO REALIZE THAT ADDICTION IS RAMPANT THROUGH THE TRADES AND BILLY AND LOCAL 7 ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO HELP MAKE A DIFFERENCE. IF YOUR STRUGGLING AND LOOKING FOR HELP THEIR ARE PEOPLE TO HELP. WETHER ITS AN ADDICTION OR A ISSUE WITH MENTAL HEALTH SOME ONE IS THERE AND IS WILLING TO HELP FIND THE BEST HELP FOR YOU. 
MOST IMPORTANTLY REMEMBER YOUR NOT ALONE. 
SOMEONE ALWAYS NEEDS YOU. 

LET US KNOW WHAT YALL WANT TO HEAR MORE OF. AND LET US KNOW IF YOU WOILD LIKE TO COME ON AND SHARE YOUR STORY WITH US.

STAY SAFE WORK HARD AND LIVE WELL.

Transcript

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welcome back to the Iron Worker Podcast today we got Billy Vez from Boston. He's here to talk to us about addiction and addiction recovery. So glad to have you on, man. Yeah. Glad to be here. Gentlemen, why don't you, uh, start off and give us a little bit of background about yourself and, uh, your early iron working life, um, what it was like living in Boston, stuff like that. All right. Um, Billy Beatz, book number 1 52 7 0 4 1, uh, proud member Iron Workers Local seven here in Boston. I, um, I grew up here in Boston. Uh, you know, my whole life we bounced around different neighborhoods in the city and, um, you know, grew, grew up in like blue collar neighborhoods. Lot of, uh, Different trade union guys from, from different locals and, and different trades and all that stuff. So, you know, I, I grew up around it and, um, I actually, I, I, I don't come from a, a line of iron workers. I'm first generation. Um, my family was in the high-rise window cleaning business for years. My great-grandfather did it when he came over from Ireland. And, uh, and actually both my great-grandfathers were in the business. You know, when they came over here, they worked on the railroad, got into the window cleaning business, and that's what, uh, that's what my family did for generations. And, um, you know, the business just, it's not what it used to be. I followed in their footsteps and I did it for probably at least a decade. And, uh, it's just not what it used to be. You know, the benefits aren't there like they used to be. And, uh, I knew a lot of guys in, uh, in the trades, but particularly in the iron workers. And they had always said, you know, when you're coming over, when you're coming over and, you know, I was young, I was in my twenties. I had this dream of kind of like building the strength back up in the union with, uh, with, with the window cleaners. And, uh, eventually it just wasn't happening, you know? And, and I turned, I got into my thirties and I said, I need to, uh, I need to start thinking more about my future family and, uh, and benefits. So I made the jump. Nice. That's some crazy stuff that, uh, the, the window cleaning aspect, that's nuts to me. I, there's some things I'll do, but that's not one top five Those guys, you guys are, those guys are crazy and yourself is crazy. I mean, in a good crazy, I guess, but man, I mean essentially just a rope and a. A BO'S chair. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, and it's funny, I mean, going to the iron workers was kind of like, just a natural progression. There's at least 10 guys that I can think of in Local Seven now. Used to be in the window cleaning business. Guys that I've worked with are older guys that worked with my father. And, uh, you know, now we're, uh, local seven. This is as big a knuckleheads as we are here. Huh, That's awesome. So, kind what sparked your interest into Ironwork, though? I mean, besides like the benefits and everything, was there something else that did it, or? I mean, I mean, uh, a lot of it was just, uh, the same stuff that I loved about, you know, doing the, the in the window cleaning, you know, just being up out in the elements with the heights and the excitement. It's something that we always watched. I mean, we'd be working on projects that were already finished, buildings that were already finished, right? Yeah. And we'd be up on the top of the buildings still walking steel every time we'd have to move our lines and our ropes. You know, we were naturals at walking the iron and moving our ropes with all our gear and all that. And we'd be staring at the cranes out in the city and it'll be looking at different jobs going on and watching the iron workers. And it was always like, you know, if I had to do something else, that was gonna be it. You know? Ok. Just the natural progression pretty much. Nice. Well, for the listeners that can't see the patch you have on your shirt is St. Patrick's Day Patch and that badass That's right. I've never seen anything like that. That's pretty cool. Well, our, uh, St. Patrick's Day parade is held in South Boston. It's where our union hall is. We're right down the street. So we've actually been, uh, very active every year in the St. Patrick's Day parade. We got a, a nice float. Um, I've been involved with it, you know, since ever since I got in. Um, yeah, you know, in fact, I, uh, I just went in front of e-board last week and I'm gonna be the one in charge of it this year. So I get a lot of stress around that. And I've been trying to like get my, my, you know, everything, all my ducks in a row and, uh, but yeah, we're looking forward to another fun parade this year. Do you guys do like a, like a float and stuff or, okay, well what does your float usually look like? We did, so I'll preface this question with, we did one last year, um, and it was supposed to be the, that iconic picture right? Where, uh, the men are sitting on the be and everything, but. Some of us dressed up. I was not one that dressed up. I was kind of a, and plus I didn't even wear green names. I had to put a necklace on there. Having green on, that's been that long since I've really focused on St. Patty's Day. But, um, but we tried to do that. We tried to kind of mimic that idea. What, what was your guys' like with it? Cause I imagine in Boston it's a pretty, I mean, it's a pretty Irish field town, so Very, so I'll, uh, I'll start that off by saying, this past year I was actually in Dublin for St. Patrick's Day and I, I was in Ireland for the week and, and I actually cut my trip short to come home. So pa, so St. Patrick's Day was Friday. Saturday, no, I'm sorry. St. Patrick's Day was Thursday. Our parade is always the Sunday after. And we'll all, we'll build the float and set it up on a Saturday before. So I was in Dublin on St. Patrick's Day. I went to the parade there, flew home Friday. Jet lagged as hell, helped set up the float, did the parade Sunday. I was a, I was an absolute mess, but, uh, I'll say the parade in South Boston is actually bigger than the parade in Dublin. Really? So just to give you an idea of the size and the scale of it. Yeah. Um, so it's big and it's involved and we usually have a lot of participation. So we, uh, we'll usually get a truck from one of our contractors and, uh, and a trailer usually about 25 feet long. And, um, we'll put up, you know, rails and everything like that. We'll hang some banners and that's typically where most of the families and our members will stand. And, um, You know, we throw out, I think we bought 120 pounds of candy last year to throw out Um, and then right in the back of the truck we'll have, um, we have a little setup that the Apprentice has made a few years back. It's like a small structure, maybe six by six steel. It's got some shamrocks on it and, uh, and a local seven. And, uh, in a small crane about, um, maybe 10 feet tall, made out of, made outta steel. And, um, it's got the boom on it and, uh, we got a little topping off beam to hang on it. Little flag, little tree. Everybody signs it and, uh, yeah, it's cool. So do you just paint over it the next year and re-sign it or do you just kind of leave the signatures on there? You know what, actually last year was the first time we actually used the top and off beam for it. Um, okay. So we'll have to see, we'll have to see in a couple months whether we paint over it and sign it. Again, it's small, it's a small scale one, but, uh, yeah, it, uh, it, the effect is there. it's the same, it's probably the same size as what they see. The people that our iron workers see as they, you know, they see the topping out piece at the very top of the building. It's probably the same size in scale, right? Yeah, pretty much. It was like two, two feet, you know what I mean? Two feet wide to six inches tall. Nice. Small. Yeah. Okay. Um, well, sorry for the detour there, but I just, I liked your shirt, so we need to talk about that, um, from apprentice to, from as you were an apprentice. So getting into the apprenticeship there in Boston, focus seven, um, you know, you, you, you go through your apprenticeship and then you, um, looking back, like what do you see was the hardest thing for you to kind of learn? What, what part, what aspect of the, of the job was most difficult? So, I, uh, I still struggle with this today too. Blueprints are not my strong suit. Yeah. Um, you know, I can read them, I can figure them out, but it takes me longer than it, it should, it takes me longer than other people, you know? Um, I was like that growing up in school too, you know, I could read things in a textbook and all that stuff, and it just, it wasn't, I wasn't grasping it, you know what I mean? I always had like, my own way to do things. Um, yeah. So, you know, like I'm, I'm staring at blueprints and, and, and I can figure it out, like I said, but it takes me longer. Sometimes I'm a little lost, but you put me, you know, on the steel, you put me looking at something and, and you explain to me what needs to happen, what needs to be done. Yeah. I'll get it done quicker than most, you know, and that, that's my strength and I recognize it and I utilize it. Yeah. But you're humble enough to, to even to, you know, show your, or describe your weaknesses as well, though. That's that's good. Oh, yeah. Um, my, my, my, the hardest thing for me to learn was knots. I know, I know two of like the 15 knots or whatever we're supposed to know. I mean, you know, uh, one and, uh, Covich is the only two I've really used. It's like yep, you got little, if you use anything else, you're just showing off. Exactly. Exactly. There's no sense in putting any other sort of twisty ties and knots out. No. You got alo hitch and a bowling. If you can't tie those two knots, then I, I mean, I don't know, my old man would've probably disowned me, but the best of the best part is when the punk ties some crazy old knot and you go to undo it and you're like, what the fuck is this thing? Yep. I've seen this before. Exactly. Um, so what is your end goal, Billy, with iron work? Try not to give like a generic answer here, right? But like, retire, retire, right? Like healthy, happy, you know, in a, in a good space financially to take care of my family and myself. But, uh, you know, I wanted to have it be a little bit more than that. So I guess I'd say, um, I've got, you know, ever since I got in Local seven, I've gotten involved in a lot of different things, you know, different community programs, outreach, the, the St. Patty's Day parade and all that good stuff. So I'd like to, I'd like to create some kind of like program or initiative, you know, using the union as a platform. Um, that's just gonna have some kind of like lasting impact on a community. Okay. Perfect. Yeah, that's, I mean, I think that's not a bad goal to have, right? Is to help build up our communities. I think that's kind of one of the things. a lot of iron workers kind of look past. It's like, oh, I've got a job. I go in at seven, I get off at three, or whatever. And you know, it doesn't really matter what I do from three 30 till the end of the day, but I think if we all took a step back and said, okay, let's, how can we make my community better? You know, instead of, you know, what is the community gonna give me? Kind of a thing. And I think that goes for everything in, in life really. So, um, yeah. That's cool. So right now, are you, uh, sitting at a certain capacity with the local, like on e-board or, you know, in the apprenticeship as an instructor or you just a, a, a hand that really wants to be involved and actively doing stuff? I'm kind of curious. So at the moment I'm, uh, I'm one of the recovery leaders for Local Seven. Um, and I sit on the Massachusetts Building Trades Recovery Council as the delegate from Local seven, as well as, uh, the Labor Assistance Professionals program. So I have my hands in a lot of, of that stuff that's going on, so I can be the recovery leader and representative from my local. Um, and you know, as far as anything else goes, I, I don't even have time for all that stuff cuz I got my hand in so many different parts. But, you know, I've been given the nod and the blessing to kind of go ahead and get involved in different programs and initiatives. Um, you know, like, so for instance, we're gonna be putting together a, um, a job fair. Same thing we would do in, in high schools, trade schools and things like that. We're gonna be doing it with the Massachusetts Department of Correction. Oh yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yep. So we're working on that. It's still kind of in its infancy, you know, and that's not just gonna be with. Local seven, it's gonna be with some of the other building trades as well. Um, we have a framework in place. We have a goal to be set. You know, we have a, an end goal for that as well. But, uh, it's in its infancy now and we'll, we'll be getting the ball rolling pretty soon. Right on. We spoke with, uh, a gal from Local 80 Snow. She's not 86. Uh, 29. 29 or 1429. Where was she? She was from 29 mena. Right? Yeah, so she actually local 29. That might be help for you if you wanna reach out to them. I know they've got a program kind of already installed, Billy, that they, uh, they actually went into the corrections department and, and worked with her and she was, uh, um, product of that, a success story from that program. So might, um, might, I can get you in touch with them, get you the information and everything with them and uh, might help you guys, you know, give some ideas or something when you guys go towards getting yours up and running as well. Yeah, absolutely. Um, she, she turned out to be quite a good hand. Um, she's, she's badass. She's one of the, um, was one of the top, top, uh, apprentices at the last competition. Um, she's really cool. All right on. She's a cool story. So, um, I don't know, I'll, I'll get you in touch with her. I'm sure she'd probably help. And, um, one of the lines she said was, um, the ironworker showed up while she was in, you know, in prison and they, they called it hell week, and she was like, I thought that was so funny because like, you know, you're in prison, how much more shitty can it get? And they, you got the iron workers coming and all this is gonna be worse, You know what I mean? Whatever you're doing right now is not as bad as what you're gonna be doing. So. Yeah, that sounds kinda funny, but, uh, we'll, I'll definitely get you in touch with them if you, if you'd like and, um, that might helpful. So Yeah, definitely it's important, you know what I mean? It's, uh, especially here in Boston, we find a lot of people. That were formally incarcerated, find their way into the building trades, you know what I mean? And, uh, why are we waiting for them to come here? We should be going and doing that outreach in there and giving them the information that they need so that they can access different apprenticeship programs and resources when they get out. You know? Yeah. One of the, the jokes that we have, ill local seven guys will ask us when our application process comes up, you know, well, is a felony gonna disqualify me from, uh, from membership And we always joke and say, no, it's a requirement. right? There's three, there's three requirements. You gotta have a divorce, you gotta have a felony, you gotta have a dui. So, I mean, you don't have those, you're, you're probably not gonna make the program Right. That's awesome. What lot. A lot of the non-union iron workers that I talked to out there, um, a lot of them too, you find out were incarcerated at one time. You know, they've got a history of either being locked up or whatever it may be and whatever their situation was at the time. Uh, a lot of the reasons, cuz I'll ask'em, why didn't you join Union when you got out? Instead of going non-union, you know, it would've been better for you and you would've had a real apprenticeship. And they just say, man, I didn't know about it. You know, or I felt like being a felon or having that stuff on my record wouldn't let me go to, you know, wouldn't let me into something like that. I felt like I, I, I couldn't do anything better. Yeah, and that's the other thing too, where, how you guys are actively trying to get in there. It lets them know that, hey, there is something else when you get out. Don't be afraid, you know? Yeah, exactly. You know, and in Massachusetts too, there's uh, there's vocational training within the Department of Correction. They have a welding program, they have basic carpentry. There's, there's different vocational skills that they offer in, in certain facilities. My experience with my knowledge of it is that it's pretty old and outdated, and I know that their welding program doesn't necessarily line up with the qualifications that we're expecting in the field. Right. So by forming these relationships and having these programs, we can start to coordinate better with them and say, you know, hey, if you can get some, some funding from the federal government of the state, whatever it might be, upgrade your vocational training and upgrade your, your, um, your shop in here. You know what I mean? This is what we are looking for in the field, you know, these welding certifications, these skills, and if they can start teaching and training those things behind the wall, these guys are already set to come right in as soon as they come out to a good paying job. um, with benefits and security and, and you know, the, it's not a doubt in my mind that if we're able to do that, the recidivism rate will just drop, you know? Oh yeah. 67.8% of, of offenders, um, I googled this while you guys were talking. It says within three years of release, 67.8% of ex-offenders are rearrested, and within five years, 76.6% are rearrested. Um, that's, that's crazy. Over half of people that are released and I, I just googled, you know, percentage of without work. Um, so being able to come out, have a steady job, like you said, with benefits, um, cuz a lot of times they have families on the outside. Have struggled, I assume. I imagine they've struggled the whole time they've been incarcerated and they get out and the only way they know how to make money provide for their family is the same shit they were doing that got'em throwing in. So, exactly. Having the option to jump in with you guys and to get into the building trades, I think that's huge. That's, that's monumental for if you can take that down even 2%, you know? Ugh, that's, that's, that's insane. That's crazy. That's, bless you guys for doing that, for those people. I mean, um, I think that's something that we all should be trying to do is, you know, help, uh, those that are incarcerated to get, you know, get their lives back on track is not all we're, none of us are perfect. Like you said, you gotta, it's a requirement to have a felony, right? Yeah. Um, so no, that's, that's really interesting. That's really cool. I didn't, didn't know that. I think the part a lot or the, yeah, the part that nobody really talks about a lot is the amount of community that they're gonna have too. Of like li like-minded men. Cause they come out and, I mean, every iron worker is cut from the same cloth. Either you were one when you started or you became one as you went along, you know? So it's like, Coming outta prison. I know plenty of guys that came out of prison and, and became an iron worker. You know what I mean? So they're around like-minded people all the time. So there's success stories for them to build off of too, you know? And I, I don't think that that gets touched on enough, you know what I mean? Right. Which is why, you know, in addition to this being like a job fair, the same style that we would do in a high school, it's also gonna be a mentorship program of sorts. You know? So we're gonna pluck members from our local, myself included, that have a history of incarceration and, and addiction and whatever it might be. And we're gonna speak on that. We're gonna touch on that kind of stuff. And the goal is to kind of whom a mentorship with some of these inmates so they have somebody they can go to and talk to. Cause it'll be an adjustment. You know? It's, it's a huge adjustment when you come out. Oh yeah. I, I, I can't imagine, I mean, So I it's kind of funny, I never was in prison, but I mean, having the structure like, like that, I mean, cuz it's, you know, you get up this certain time, you eat this certain time, you go to bed this certain time, like it's structured out, but then you get out into the real world and it's, you don't have that structure. You know, you can do what you want when you want and however, and that's gotta be the transition. So I, I lived in South America for a little while and I was kind of on a structured program like that the whole time I was out there. And when I got back, the hardest part for me was like going back to like normal life shit because I was so used to that, okay, get up at 6:00 AM you work out till seven, you know, blah, blah, blah. You eat at seven 30, like it was all your day was planned out for you other than, you know. So getting back my friend's like, Hey, let's go hang out. It's like, oh dude, I gotta go to bed like you know, at nine o'clock, my schedule's nine o'clock. And um, So that, that transition's tough. And I can only imagine getting out of, you know, incarceration where you, you go into the real world, you're just kind of thrown into it and they say, okay, don't come back. And it's like, okay, well how do I get to where I need to be? How do you know? Like, where do I look for work? And yeah, that's really interesting. That's good. Like that I really do. Um, anybody have any questions? No, I'm good. Okay. Local 1 55, I believe out of Fresno, they've got a, uh, full, uh, training program in the Yuma Prison. So they go in and let them start their apprenticeship while they're in prison. And pretty much all they're doing there is just, uh, all they are limited to that they can do is like safety courses, stuff like that, bookwork and all that. But, and then they see from in there if they have the, you know, the drive and the desire to continue with it. And then from there they pretty well get a direct entry right into the apprenticeship. Right on. I didn't know about that one. I, I heard of a program in California, uh, called Inmate Ward Labor. It's, um, it's essentially a nonprofit construction company, right. That the, the California Department of Corrections form to help manage their maintenance and budget and things like that. And that, I don't know a ton about it, so I don't want to give you any wrong information, but from what I know, they're a nonprofit construction company that handles maintenance within the California Department of Corrections and their signatory with the building trades and Oh, yeah. Part of that contract is that they have some of the inmates that are already. Getting some apprenticeship training behind the wall, work with them. So if they got a pour like a, you know, foundation map or a new building, they got'em out there tying rebar, you know, and they have instructors in there and those hours count is on the job, uh, apprenticeship training while they're incarcerated. That's cool. Yeah. I, I think I have a buddy actually that is a part of something like that. He's in California. Um, and he's, he's in prison currently, but he was, he, he's a, he likes to do graffiti and so he got on with a pink crew and he's painting over all this graffiti now. And I think it was like, dude, that's so funny. It's so ironic that you, he's like, it sucks. Cause you'll, like, he writes, we, we correspond or whatever quite a bit. But, um, he'll call me every once in a while, but he's like, dude, it sucks because I know how hard this, how hard these people work with these, these different, uh, I have, what do they call'em? Tags or whatever on the walls and everything. He's like, here I am. I'm just paint rush bucket, just painting all over all these things. I'm like, dude, that's, that's full circle there. You know, how, how hard it was for those people to paint over all your shit That's poetry, man. Yep. That's, that's pretty good. So you talked a little bit about your, uh, you know, your prior kind of, uh, addictions and, and, and stuff like that. So what, what is your story, if you don't mind me asking? Um, how did you find yourself in that? With addictions or in that, in that situation? Yeah. Um, you know, I'll, I'll have to certainly give the short version, right? Cause I don't think we got have enough time in the day to give you, uh, my full story. But, you know, I think I had reached out to you guys to give you some information after I listened to one of your episodes. And, and you know, a gentleman had spoken about, um, losing members, you know what I mean? And his local and, and, um, needing to find, uh, better ways to help people access treatment. and, uh, it was a while ago, so I don't remember the exact context of the conversation, but, you know, basically it was the, for me it was the episode with Robert Swagger, just so for the listeners that are wondering. Right. Okay. Okay. You know, it, for me, it's hard to say, you know, how I, how I found myself there, you know, um, yeah, I grew up, uh, I wouldn't call it a broken home, but, you know, addiction ran rampant in my neighborhood and my family. Um, my, my father is an addict. He was kind of in and outta my life, so I was raised, um, by my mother, you know, by herself. And, and she had a, she had a work a lot. She had to work too, sometimes three jobs to, you know, provide a roof and, and, and food on the table and all that stuff. So it gave me a lot of free reign to just kind of, you know, be on my own and, and you know, just different like childhood traumas and circumstances that came around it. Um, and uh, you know, I was just kind of like a young kid, angry at the world, angry at society, didn't feel like I fit in anywhere. And, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of inevitable, right? That like, teenagers are gonna turn towards alcohol, drugs, you're gonna try it at some point in your life. And, uh, you know, I I, I, I couldn't really tell you, you know, like I, I tried it just trying to be like, live my life like a normal kid. And then, you know, you wake up one day and it's, uh, you know, it's, it's never a problem until it is, right? Yeah. And, and sometimes you don't know when that is. Um, you, you have to, you have to figure it out the hard way, you know? Yeah, definitely. So at what point did you, did you decide like, oh shit, maybe I do have an issue. Maybe I need to reach out. And, and, and in doing so, how, what steps did you take to do that? So, You know, I think everybody kind of has a different story in how they get to where they got and, and, um, and how they got there. And, and mine's certainly that it's not your typical story. Um, you know, I knew that there was a problem pretty early on, and the thing was is I, I wasn't ready for help and I didn't want it, you know, I, I'd say probably by the time I was 15 years old, I knew that it had become a problem. Um, yeah, I was involved with the courts already. I had been court ordered to go to a treatment program, which I, uh, got thrown out of, and then subsequently had a. Go to jail, you know, um, into the, the juvenile justice program, um, you know, at the age of 15. And, uh, it's a pretty, it's a pretty young age. Like, you know, the other kids that I was going to school with and hanging around with, they'd get into trouble here and there. They were involved with the courts and, and they were using drugs, but not to the extent that I was. And the consequences for them certainly weren't as bad as mine were. So I knew then that it was a problem. But, um, like I said, just like, kind of like an angry kid, angry at the world, angry at my circumstances, angry at, you know, everything. And, uh, I didn't, I didn't really care, you know? Yeah. I couldn't see past, you know, I couldn't see a future for myself. So I didn't really care. And, uh, and to answer your question, you know, um, how did I find help? I never really reached out for help. It, it found me, you know, uh, when I least expected it, when I was kind of like at my bottom. Um, I, I found hope, I found help, you know, from people in, in various 12 step fellowships and whatnot. And um, you know, I just, uh, all of a sudden had a spark where I said, you know what? Like I can't live like this anymore. You know, something, something's gotta change. Nice. You, it's, it's kind of crazy when you, you finally hit that point in your life. Cuz I mean, everybody wants to, they have some, everybody it seems like has somebody that they love and they care about and they, they want to like force help upon them. And a lot of them don't understand that that shit is not gonna work until you, that person wants it for themselves and themselves only. They're sick and tired and sick and tired. Yep. They, no, I mean, it's, I, I'm, I'm a recovering alcoholic. I've been sober five years now and, um, I was a, I about destroyed my whole life several times. And, but it didn't matter because I didn't want to get sober In my head it was, hell no. This is what I've always done. I enjoy it. These other problems aren't from this, this is just, you know, how I cope with those problems. So I need to fix those problems. Right. And finally found out, you know, later on down the road, it finally come to the point it's like, fuck less. I've tried everything to solve those problems and they're not getting solved. The only thing I haven't done is quit this. And it's like, dude, I want it so bad. Screw it. I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna, let's give it a shot. Let's see. And it was the, you know, for me, the best move I ever made. But a lot of people don't see it that way cuz, I mean, like you said, everybody's story's different man. Yeah. And I mean, that's really where it was at for me. You know, like I, um, I, I, I couldn't see past it. I was so caught up in just anger, depression, you know? Um, and I was so caught up in active addiction that it was, you know, the overdoses and, and jail and prison and, and you know, watching everybody. The thing too, right, is, is not to blame my circumstances, my surroundings or neighborhood, but that's what I grew up seeing. That's what I grew up seeing in my family with the friends that I grew up with. More than half of them are dead or serving life sentences in prison. Um, the, the. Epidemic of, of like opiate addiction, especially in the Northeast and in Massachusetts is, it's unreal. It's, it's staggering when you look at the numbers and you see how many people are dying. You know, there's a, a generation of children growing up, both of their parents are dead from overdoses. It's, uh, it's sad, you know, and, and, and I can remember where I came from being caught up in that stuff and just not really seeing a future for myself and being so just consumed by my, my anger and like the trauma that I faced as a kid and having like, you know, suicidal ideations and just thinking like, what do I have to live for? Why would I wanna get clean? Why would I wanna stop using cuz I don't see a future for myself. And, uh, and, and it's tough when you're kind of stuck in that hole to pull yourself out, you know? So what was the, uh, what was the change for you? You said, you said you just had something happen where you just one day decided you were done. Is that. Is that how it worked out, or did you decide enough was enough and you had a rollover where that was it? Pretty much, um, you know, I was, uh, I found myself incarcerated once again, you know, um, and, uh, just sitting in a, in a, in a jail cell, you know, I mean, I was, uh, I was 24 years old when I got, when I got clean and, uh, and I found myself incarcerated again. And, you know, I had been introduced to like different, uh, 12 step fellowships and recovery programs and things like that, you know, throughout my teenage years and, and being court ordered to go to them and being dragged to them by my family members. But I never really wanted it, like I just talked about, you know? And, um, it's hard to say. I, I couldn't really tell you exactly what it was, but I was sitting in a, in. Treatment center after I'd just gotten out of jail, I was court ordered to be there, and they had some guys that were in recovery come up and, uh, and, and talk to us, you know, and, um, it was just, uh, there was something that, that, that sparked in my brain and said, you know what? Like, I'm tired of living like this, you know, and uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a shot. You know, there was like just that little, little spark that ignited in my, in my head and I said, I'm gonna give it a shot. And, uh, and I did. And, um, you know, at that point I knew I always kind of knew where the help was and where it could be found. I just didn't want it. And now I had that like little, little bit of desire in me, so I, I went for it, you know, I went for it and it, uh, it worked. The momentum kind of just kept building and, uh, you know, that was. Last time I picked up a drinker drug was, uh, December 14th, 2010. And, uh, I haven't found necessary, you know, to pick anything up since then. And, um, you know, my life has gotten exponentially better since then. Every, every year that goes on, you know, better and better. Congratulations to both of you. You too, Les. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. For sure. Thank you. So, Billy, with, uh, having gone through all that, so this might be a dumb question, but would you, would you have cha, would you change any of it, I mean, to where you are now and the lessons that you learned in life and, and maybe this is for you as well, Les, but like, would you have changed, I mean, any of it, would you make any different decisions if you could go back to that 15 year old boy Billy, or, uh, whenever you started less? I mean, what changes would you make if you, if you did, if. My questions are always so damn long. If you could make those changes, if you would, what would you, what would you have changed about it? Um, you know, I, I've often gone back and forth in my head sometimes, you know, like if I'm just down and out or, you know, feeling a certain way and, and I'll say, yeah, you know, I wished I didn't do this. I wish I didn't do that. I wish I had changed this. Or if I knew this, then I wouldn't have gone through everything that I did. But, uh, you know, in, in reality, big picture, I wouldn't have got to where I am today without the experiences that I've had. And, you know, when you take a look at my life on the surface, I've achieved an accomplished a lot of things. You know what I mean? That, that, you know, I should be proud of and, and, uh, I know other people in my life are proud of me for, but it's really not those achievements and accomplishments that have like, defined me and, and made me the person I am today. A lot of it is, um, How I feel. This is gonna sound corny as hell, but it's the truth. You know, what, the things that I do on the inside, kind of giving back to my community, helping others, and doing things, you know, it was told to me in, in different 12 step fellowships, right, you gotta can't keep what you have without giving it away. Yeah. And, and I've done that. I took that to Hot and I've tried to get involved with a lot of these different programs and helping people. And, uh, I still go back into correctional facilities and jails to try and talk to the guys that are in there about recovery and, and, and, uh, reentry and training and, uh, it's such a good feeling when you leave. You know what I mean? It's, uh, it, it, it, it gives me purpose in life. Do you know what I mean? To go and try and help people. It, it has made me the person that I am today. And it's those little things like that that make me far richer than, than any, any paycheck ever could. Yeah. That's cool. That's really neat. You guys are doing good stuff too, cuz it, I think, you know, we've all had friends that have gone down certain pathways and it seems like it's always so hopeless, you know? So to be able to go into these places and offer these guys, you touched on it a little bit bucket, but like they come out and they're just kicked out on the street with a bag of their shit, you know, it's like, where do we go from here now? You know? And so to give them hope and a hand up, it's like, dude, I think that's more valuable than gold because the amount of times that I've watched a friend go down the wrong pathway because he didn't have the proper support or his family thought he was a piece of shit or whatever the case is, come out of the joint and have nothing to his name and nobody to help him out. Like I think it's awesome that you guys are going in there and offering those guys. Cause that's 50% of the battle, right? You're offering them the ability to. Make something of themselves. And at that point it's in. It's just like you said, do they want it or not? You know? Yep. So you kind of get your own little weeding out process in the, in the beginning, cuz you give these guys the ability, everything that they could ever need, you know, come out and you make all this money, all this retirement, you could set your life up forever. You just gotta make the choice to do it, you know? Yep. And you know, I, I take it seriously too, like I said, I don't wanna ever forget where I came from. And this has been a, a big joke with some of the guys I work with. So, here in, in Boston, well actually in Cambridge in particular, it's just across the road, the Charles River from Boston. It's a lot of like, uh, rehab jobs going on. You know, we're, we're an older city, right? So it's a lot of development, but we're running outta space. We're building air rights projects over highways. We're gutting old buildings and rehabbing'em. And, uh, one of'em in Cambridge is, uh, is an old jail. So the, the Middlesex County Jail was built, I think in the 1970s. And, uh, it was a high rise jail. So it was 22 stories and the jail portion was from the 18th floor to the 22nd floor. Everything below was like court offices, government offices, things like that. And the first shithole, oh yeah, million. Million dollar view. Million dollar view. They used to have a basketball court and some weight set up on the, uh, on the roof. And, uh, you got nor civilians paying three grand for that view. And you got incarcerated inmates that are getting that shit for free. Yep. Yep. That's awesome. well, that, that building is currently, uh, they actually closed it down, I think in 2007. They, it was full of asbestos and, and all sorts of other chemicals. So they shut down the, the office portion of the building, but they left the jail open, right for the rest of us scumbags. And, uh, so the only thing there was this towering concrete building in Cambridge. with the jail portion on top. And uh, and, and there's a bunch of inmates in there. And the place was insanely overcrowded. I mean, you know, I was in there in 2010 when I was getting clean. It was built for a capacity of like 250 guys, and we had just over a thousand. Um, it was gross, it was overcrowded. And, uh, they eventually, I think, uh, they, they evacuated the place at like midnight one night and took all the inmates out of there, I wanna say 2013 or 14. And it's been abandoned ever since, just kind of sitting there empty. And, um, the city was fighting with, you know, different organizations who's gonna tear it down, is gonna pay for the, uh, the mitigation or the asbestos and all that. And, um, they're, they're now finally getting to it. So I wrap the story. Um, they're turning it into condos, lab space on the bottom, condos up top. So there will be people paying probably a couple mill for the, for the penthouse condos that we used to get approved But, uh, a friend of mine, I had always said, when that job comes, like, I wanna, I wanna be on that job. You know what I mean? I gotta try and get on that job. And, uh, that's some full circle shit right there. The, the time came. But, uh, I got a family now, you know what I mean? So like, I come home, I got a little three-year-old running around and I just, I don't want, I don't wanna walk in the door with asbestos all over and all that gross stuff. Like, I know guys that have gone over to that job and they've all gotten sick within a week or two. They've got like some mysterious flu or cold. I'm like, I'm all set. But, uh, a buddy of mine was working the phones when they first went over was working the tower crane, and, uh, they were, the laborers were cutting out all the old sections of the jail. And I told'em, I said, Dude, get me a set of barss, get me a, a door from the jail. And he laughed at me. He's like, are you serious? I'm like, I'm a hundred percent serious. So I have in my basement, uh, a set of jail doors sitting there. Uh, I'm gonna do something with him. I don't know what yet, but you know, I, I joke around that, that that place kind of took a piece of me back then, you know? And I went and I took it back. Oh yeah. Do you ever go stand behind him and just re Yeah. Reflect on some of the shit, Stand there. Oh, I'm glad I'm not here anymore. Yeah. Oh, shoot. That's cool. That's, that's, I don't blame you. I have a, I have a three year old going before this year, and I, I wouldn't wanna bring that shit home. No way. Nope. It's bad enough that we, you know, we get ourselves sick, but we don't need to be bringing that shit home to our family and our, our, you know, our kids and lives and stuff.

Track 1: 40:49

Hey guys. You ever went into the bank to apply for an auto loan or to refinance or house or something? They tell you to go pound sand. I became a member just over a year ago and no hassle at all with those guys. Man, they just straight up answer any questions that you have. They're there, they're helpful, they're friendly, um, they're great to work with. Um, and most importantly, They don't look at you as a credit score. They look at you as a, as an iron worker and, and a fellow brother or sister of the, of that brotherhood and sisterhood that we've talked about in the podcast. You know, they started out, back in 1960, a dozen of'em took two cigar boxes full of money to help their brother iron workers boom out and have some extra money and to get their finances in order. And that's how they became a judgment free zone. And that's, It's so easy to go in there and try to get, uh, an auto loan. It's easy to get your house free, refinance. They're there to help you and they understand their lifestyle. You know, they understand that it's hard to be an iron worker and you're booming out and you're in town. You're out of town. And it makes it tough when you go into these banks to get loans. But these guys make it easy. Yeah. They're, they understand that iron workers are dependable and, and trustworthy check'em out. Sign up today for free online@ironworkerscu.org slash podcast.

42:12

While during your recovery and during this time, you were washing windows, right? Yes. And so you were going in and out of, in and out of prison and stuff for during this same time? Or was this after you started getting clean? Um, well, both, both cause uh, you know, I was a kid. It was, like I said, the family business, so that was something that I could always go to. There was great money in it too. You know, there was always great money in the window washing business. The benefits just weren't there. So I did a lot of it when I was, uh, in active addiction. And then, you know, when I got clean and got outta prison, I went back to it. And, um, like I said, I had this new like, passion. I wanted to like, get involved in things. And I was in my twenties and I said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna build back up the union. You know what I mean? I'm gonna make it strong again. Like it was when my grandfather was the business manager and it just, uh, it wasn't happening. It wasn't happening. So I jumped ship, went with the iron workers. Yeah. Now did you, when you, oh, sorry. Go ahead Tanner. So with all that, that heritage involved in the window washing union, did they, did your family trip out about you joining the iron workers? Were they cool with it? How did that go? No. Um, they, they were actually glad. I mean, my grandfather had passed away at the time, but, you know, this is another story that I could probably talk to you for hours about, but, um, before I was even born is when it started to go downhill. My grandfather was the, uh, the president for the union, which meant he was essentially the financial secretary, business manager, all that stuff. And, um, they merged with the S E I U and it was a, a big contentious vote between the membership. And, uh, my grandfather saw the writing on the wall. He, he urged everybody not to do it, and they didn't listen. They listened to kind of like the, the corporate interests of the, uh, janitorial companies that kind of took over and, and influenced a lot of the vote and. he stepped away, you know, after the membership voted that way, he stepped away. He went to work for the city of Boston. He worked for, uh, the Boston Redevelopment Authority for like 30 years after that, you know, and, uh, my father was, you know what I mean, in the business. And, and he had a couple of businesses of his own. But, you know, the union was never the same, you know, the window cleaning union, it was never the same. So, um, yeah, it's really just is what it is, you know? Yeah. But they were happy. They were happy with my family, you know, was happy for me. Okay, cool. Um, now during, I mean, being that it was, this, this would be kind of a, our last, one of my last questions about this, but during, during that time, how hard was it for you to, um, stay clean? Was there a lot of influences and stuff as like, from people at work, or did you not find that as an issue? Because I know that a lot of iron workers mean that it's No, it's no secret that, um, drugs are prevalent on the job sites or whatever. Right? Like it's, it's, it's a rem it's easy to come to, it's easy to get your hands on and stuff. Was there ever that in the window, um, union or, yeah. Yeah, there definitely was. Um, I think you see that a lot of the trades and, and the different, you know, just. Blue collar industries. Um, it was certainly there, but, um, you know, I, I had a little bit of time removed, you know, it wasn't like I, uh, all of a sudden was clean for a week and I was, and I was back at work, you know? Um, yeah, I was incarcerated for a little while. I went to a treatment center and, and, you know, eventually to like halfway and all that stuff. So I think when I actually got back into the workforce, they had maybe, you know, six months under my belt. And, uh, you know, it was still tough. There, there were days where I almost, you know, made that choice, you know what I mean? To, to throw it all away. But, um, it got easier as the time went on and, um, you know, I mean, it's still something I deal with today. I mean, I've been sober over 12 years now, and there's days where I'm like, you know, man, it'd be really nice just to, you know, go out with the gang after work and, and have a few peers. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah. It's, it's insane thinking, you know, and it gets stopped real quick, but, you know, it, it, you never like really cured from this, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's the wildest part, man, is once that door's open, it's never shut again. You know? Yeah. I think a lot, I think a lot of people that have never struggled with it don't understand that too. Right. You know what I mean? A hundred percent. Um, and then somebody had, this is a wild back, but I mean, like Tanner said, once that door's open, you know, you, you never see it the same again. But it's kind of funny cuz one thing that, uh, at some of the 12 step meetings I go to, you know, I mean that's one thing they tell people that have, and they told it to me the first time I went, was after this meeting, it's okay if you go out and, you know, end up, uh, drinking again because after this meeting you're never gonna look at it the same. Yeah. You're the second you pick up that bottle, it's not gonna be the same as it was before you walked in these doors. And there's so much truth to that. It's not even funny. It hits in your head, you know? And then the, you know, I wish, I wish I'd had, had the ability to have, like, six months away from the field when I was first getting sober. Uh, I couldn't, I mean, I, I wasn't like coming out of any sort of treatment or, you know, incarceration and then trying to do it. I was just, you know, it, it finally hit me one day and everyone I worked with back then in my local, it was pretty much like, what you don't drink? What the hell's wrong with you? Or you know, I mean the dope a big thing. That wasn't a big thing. That hasn't been a big, our area, our local, at least. since my dad's era, you know, my dad's era. Those guys were big. I mean, meth was getting big and shit like that. Nobody messed with heroin cause they all knew that was bad cuz of the sixties and seventies, you know? But I mean, meth and cocaine was the big deal then. But all of us in our generation were just kinda like, yeah, no, we're, that's not really our big deal. But the alcohol, I mean, everyone looks at you like, um, what the hell? You don't drink? Are you even an iron worker? I had to deal with that a lot. It was so bad that, you know, after, I think it was about a month or so after I quit drinking, I had to drag up from the job I was on. That was, I was home every night. It was steady work right there at a fertilizer plant, uh, doing a, a demo and rebuild on a huge section of it. I was gonna be home for a while. I drug up on it and went up to a crew of people. I had no clue who the hell they were. I only knew one person and that was the foreman. And it was six hours away and. Uh, I did that just so I could get the hell away from that. And that time's gone on, you know, and as is my sobriety's grown, I've, I've come, like, I still fought that for a while where I'd be on a job and I finally got my legs under me to where I could work around all those old crew mates again, you know? And, uh, several of them have actually found sobriety since then, cuz they started realizing, oh shit, you know, that's, that's bad. But they, uh, you know, other members I've realized have come to you mentioned that you're sober or clean, you know, in recovery of any, whichever, you know, path you're taking. And I hear a heck of a lot more. Heck yeah. Good for you, man. That's awesome. Rather than what? What the hell are you? Oh, what the hell are, are you even an iron worker, man? And it's, I'm glad that the mentality of it's changing and guys like yourself, you know, that are bringing that awareness out there is making it, you know, making that true in more places than just one. And that's pretty awesome. Yeah. You know, it's, it's something when I got in, you know, I had quite a few years of, of recovery under my belt and uh, and I knew how the business was, cause I knew a lot of people, I knew a lot of iron workers. And, um, you know, I'll be honest, it was something that I kind of kept quiet in secret, you know what I mean? I just, I wouldn't go to the bar at, at lunch or after work or, you know, and, and, and I did my own thing. And, um, what I started seeing was I was losing a lot of brothers and sisters, man, a lot. You know? I mean, we, we've probably lost between suicide and overdose, probably six members a year, past couple of years. And I'm not including, oh yeah. And, and you know what? That's just not. that's just iron workers. Okay. I'm talking to some of these other members of this building, trades council, you know, plumbers, laborers. They're losing similar numbers too, you know? And, and it's, uh, it's only getting worse, you know, from what I've seen. Yeah. And, uh, and I'm tired. Some of these people I grew really, really close to. And it hurt deeply when this happened. And I started to say to myself, you know, am I doing a disservice by, by not sharing, you know, my story and my recovery and not being open about it, you know? And, um, I, I say it all the time now, um, you know, I choose to recover out loud so my brothers and sisters don't have to suffer in silence because that's what essentially has happened. You know, I mean, we had a, we had an apprentice a few years ago, great kid, full of life. She was gonna make an amazing hiring worker. And, and, and I knew that she was struggling with, you know, alcohol and addiction and things like that. And, uh, you know, it wasn't that they took her out. It was, it was fucking suicide. you know, and, and to sit there and think that somebody's in that much pain, that they choose to take their own life, and that they kind of, they did it quietly like that. It, it just breaks my heart. And, and, and I made a choice then that I was no longer gonna kind of like, keep my recovery in the shadows and gonna keep the secret I was gonna be, I was gonna be vocal about it. Yeah. That's the, the thing that I found my, my, my wife had a cousin that, uh, he committed suicide, uh, five or six years back. Um, the thing that's funny about it is it's so taboo to talk about, like, but like people don't realize that if we just start talking about it and make it normal conversation that, you know, that kind of shit happens every day. You know, the suicide, that addiction that people are going through, shit that we might not know. Maybe people start treating each other a little bit better as well, you know? And. not because they feel bad for one another, but because they'll realize hell we're all going through the same shit. Like, you know, it's not just, uh, it's not, it's not just one person that's gotta deal with all of them. I mean, it's, it's just, it's so sad that it can't be talked about on a, on an open. I mean, like you said, you felt like you needed to keep it a, you know, secret and, and, and not share that. And that's, that, that's the scariest part, I think, is that, you know, there's, we pass 15, 20 people on the street every day, you know, and how many of them people are thinking, you know, maybe one person would just talk to me. I, I won't go home and, you know, end my life or do something terrible, and just think about that and like, it, you know, it, it rings true. Like so many kids, they think, oh, I'll just, you know, I'll just go away. And, and kids, adults, it's, it's everybody. Not just kids. But, um, you know, if I just go away, then people will be happy. And it's, it's the opposite. Like, you know, so many tears for years and years. You know, your, your parents, your, your, your siblings, your, your wife, your kids, whatever. You know, it's in one way or another. They depend on each other, you know, so it's, it's, it's awesome that you're doing what you're doing with this program. Um, And that you, you got started to help brothers and sisters into, I think, astonishing that six, six people a year. I mean, that's, that's insane. And we're, we're just talking about members. This isn't including, uh, children, wives, you know, dependents. You know, when we look at like, the business of our, uh, you know, of our locals, you know, there's a lot that goes into it. Our health and welfare funds and all that stuff, uh, you know, treatment, it's available to anybody that falls under our insurance plan. You know, so six members, you know, this is people that we work within in the field. We're not including, you know, people's, uh, wives and children and things like that because the numbers would be higher. So explain what this program is and how it, how it got started. I mean, I don't know how much information you can share about it. Um, I would like to get as much information as we can out about it. Cause I think what it is, I mean, getting any information out and where they can find you and, and having people reach out is, is obviously gonna save more lives. And that's 99.9% of why we do this podcast is to help brothers and sister iron workers, you know, get better and, and achieve success. So, explain what this program is, how they could find it. I mean, how it got started. Um, all the above. Yeah. Right on. I mean, I, I would love to, you know, say that I, that I, you know, played a, a big role in it. I'm just part of it now, but, you know, we were fortunate enough in Local seven that some of our leadership was, uh, in recovery, you know, um, business agent, business manager, and now our, our district council president. So, not only have we gotten kind of the blessing and the nod to go ahead and continue this kind of stuff, they've been, they've been there to help us along the way, you know, um, but this. Program like the one we discussed, it's um, it's part of the Massachusetts Building Trades Council. Um, they formed a recovery council. So what we wanted to do was kind of join all the resources that different locals and different trades within the Boston area in Massachusetts kind of had already. Right? Because, you know, we're at Local seven. We had leadership, um, um, that were in recovery and they were open about it and they were trying to help people. We actually have, uh, an AA meeting at our union hall on Monday nights. It's, uh, it's open to members obviously, but it's also open to the public as well. Um, that's been going on for quite a few years and it's very well attended, but there's also other trades different. Building trades in the area that have something similar. Uh, the electricians Hall, which is about a mile from us, they have a meeting and Sunday morning the, uh, the sprinkler fitters have a meeting on Thursday night. So we all kind of have our, our individual, uh, recovery programs. And there's even some, uh, some trades, some of the bigger trades that have, uh, internal EAPs employee assistance programs that dedicated paid on salary members that are there just to help members, you know, with recovery stuff. So, um, the Massachusetts Building Trades Council wanted to organize some of these recovery leaders together and form a recovery council. So that's what it falls under. And, um, and, and I'd be the delegate for, for Local seven. And, uh, well, I'll give the website real quick. It's mass building trades.org/recovery. And when you go on there, it'll, it'll give, you know, like a little paragraph about, uh, what we do and, and what we're trying to get out there. But then it'll also list each trade, uh, that's involved in the council. And when you click on that trade, it'll give you the resources that they offer. So it'll say, you know, who we use as, as an employee assistance program. So the iron workers have, uh, an external employee assistance program called Modern Assistance. A lot of the other trades use them as well. Um, you know, plumbers, pipe fitters, electricians, uh, most of the trades will use this one organization. And you know, by. Kind of pooling our resources like that, we're able to better help our members. Yeah, so by clicking on your trade on this website, you'll be able to see the resources available if you need to reach out, um, and, and try and get a bet in detox. It'll list the phone numbers of some of the recovery leaders, so you'll see myself on there as well as our financial secretary. You'll see the information for, um, the AA meeting that's at our union hall on Monday nights. So each trade, it'll, it'll list those resources that are on there. Nice. Um, what was that? It was mass building trade recovery.org. Uh, mass building trades.org. Dot org, okay. Yep. And then it's slash recovery or if, uh, you know, if you're just on that website, it's one of the first buttons on the menu. It says Recovery resources. and, uh, you know, this is a relatively new thing. You know, we meet, uh, we've been meeting for just about two years now, and, uh, and, you know, we're trying to get the ball rolling on a lot of different programs and it, you know, it can be tough. It's not, it's not a very fast process, you know, but as long as we're making progress and moving forward and helping people, um, we've had a bunch of, um, hard hat stickers, made up banners for the job sites, bigger, bigger, uh, stickers for gang boxes and whatnot. And there's a QR code on there so you can, oh, yeah. Bam. You hit the QR code and that'll pop up. Um, you know, the visibility of it helps. We've tried to have a lot of, uh, recovery stand downs on job sites and, you know, the, the Building Trades Employers Association of the Northeast has a recovery week every year. Um, you know, local Seven posted it this past year, and it's, you know, it's a big event. It's, it's being talked about because our. Our contractors, our general contractors and our signatories are seeing it firsthand. You know, and, and whereas years ago, they might have been looking at ways to kind of just, just sweep these guys off the job site. Hey, somebody goes to detox, somebody dies. It's call the hall, get another guy out here. We're actually trying to work on ways to, to help these members, get them the resources that they need form a plan for return to work, so that if you need help and you call and you can, you can check in the detox and you're promised you're gonna get your job back. You know? And, and that can prove difficult sometimes, but you know, we we're starting to make it happen. Yeah. Now question for you with that. Um, we talked a little bit about the, the members that, that are using that aren't interested in getting, um, that help. How are you, how are you targeting them and. um, like what ways are you, I mean, maybe you don't wanna tell your secrets, I guess, so that they, it'd be hard for them to avoid you, but, uh, I mean, what, what are you guys doing to target them, to kind of help them get their ears opened up and, and to listen and open up their hearts to something to change and to, to be better, you know? Um, that's kind of a, that's a couple parts to that question, I guess. You know, I mean, for one thing, like I talked about just. Recovering out loud, right? You know, I'm, I'm open about my recovery and what it's done for my life and, and sharing stories like this and, you know, where I came from, where I am today, and hoping that, you know, it'll be an inspiration for somebody. But more so what we've realized, one of the biggest barriers to, to people, um, reaching out for help is the stigma around it. You know, so what we've really tried to focus on isn't so much the people out there that, that need help. So, you know, the chances are it, it was my experience, right in my active addiction. I knew I had a problem way before I was ready to, to reach out for help and accept it. Um, a lot of the barriers that we see are the stigma. People are afraid of losing their job. They're afraid of what their brothers and sisters are gonna think. They're afraid of what their, uh, the leadership at our union halls are gonna think. If you're an apprentice, what is your coordinator instructor gonna think? You know, um, we're really just trying to talk about this stuff, get it out in the open, let people know that it's okay. And, and I think the more we talk about it, the more we normalize it, the more we have people who, who aren't alcoholics or addicts who don't have problems, talk about it, accept it, and are okay with it, the more people will feel comfortable reaching out and, uh, and, and trying to get help. Yeah. That's, that's cool. I like that. That's stigma. I mean, like you were saying, you know, that stigma's a huge thing, especially in the construction trades and a lot of people, you know, I mean, nobody even voices it. You could be surrounded by a whole bunch of, uh, people in sobriety are fighting through the same struggles as you are, but it's kinda like always asking that question, uh, asking apprentices questions in the apprenticeship. Ask a question cuz if you don't ask it, the person next to you might be wanting to ask it, but they're too scared to ask it too. You know, you're not dumb. Ask for the help, but it's different. Variety and stand because you know, I mean, it's, if you don't know there's someone around you, you're not gonna go around ask him. I mean, at least that's the way I seen. You're not gonna go around like, Hey man, are are you sober? Are you clean? You know, can, can you help me? I, I don't know. But I mean, it's, no, it's, I, when I was getting sober, I reached out to those that were vocal about it, you know, and then they're like, oh yeah, come here. Let me show you Right. And take you to places you need to go. I can't help you with everything, but I can get you some of the tools you need. You know, cuz it's not gonna be just one person or one tool. It's gonna be a group and a surrounding of it. And it's, it's, yeah, I mean, getting that vocal part of it, you know, I don't know how many apprentices and journeymen have reached out to me when they've needed help. I mean, Dylan on that episode with Dylan, you know, I mean, I helped him through some hellacious struggles and I'm not trying to, you know, toot my horn like, Hey, I did that for this guy. It's just a simple fact that I was vocal. He knew where I stood with it and he knew he had somebody to go to, you know? I, you know, I, one thing I think we do a really good job. Um, you know, like I said, local sevens done a very good job at it, mainly because a lot of our leadership was in recovery and they were vocal about it. You know, they didn't keep it a secret. Um, but some of the things that I'm hearing from some of the other trades on this council and their concerns, um, you know, and I, and I don't wanna share too much cause I'm not trying to, to talk any shit or anything like that about some of the other programs, but there's a trade that, uh, large membership, right? And, uh, and carpenter. So there's been stories about their apprenticeship where, uh, their coordinators just not very down with second chances. And, uh, and, you know, if you fuck up, once you fail, you're, you're done. You're out. So a lot of these apprentices are scared to come out and reach out for help. So this person that I spoke to on the, on the council who belongs to that trade, he said each year at the end of the, the school year around summertime, he'll see like, at least a dozen apprentices reach out and check into detox right at the end of the year because they're afraid to do it during the school year cuz they think that they're gonna be, uh, revoked. And that's dangerous. That's extremely so Dangerous. Dangerous. And, and I just don't think that, you know, these people realize this. You know, I, I think there's some people who just, maybe addiction hasn't touched their life in any way. So they just, they don't know what they don't know. And that's okay. But these are the things that we're trying to talk about and normalize it and make it okay. Cuz this is a similar trade where they're losing six members a year. It's, uh, yeah, it's, it's tough. Well, even then, how do you get involved in a trade like this and not know somebody like best friends that have been through this, you know what I mean? Like, I don't, that's, that seems so wild to me. Like you, you're gonna write off a person you love because you are afraid of giving second chances. Like, don't you think everybody deserves that? At least a little bit. You know, if they're gonna wake up, then great. If they don't, then. how many times is it gonna take? Type of thing. You know what I mean? Oh, I agree a hundred percent. That's crazy. Oh, that, it's, it's unfortunate though, cause like you said, it is dangerous cause those kids go, you know, and I say kids like, you know, like I'm some old kid, old guy, but, um, you know, guys our aged, you know, thirties that are getting into this trade, just getting settled in and then all of a sudden, you know, you're, you get met with this addiction and you feel like you have nowhere to go. I mean, the only way to go is out. And that's, that's terrible. You know, being, being afraid to open up because you're, you know, you feel like that apprentice that asks for tomorrow a tool from a journeyman, you know, you'll get your hand slapped or whatever. It's not, that's a bad, it's a bad environment and what you guys are doing by making it normalized and uh, and bringing it to light, I think is, is impressive. Um, So how do you, how do you recommend, say, a normal guy on the, on the job site? Um, helping somebody that's, that's kind of going through an active addiction like this and, and is, you know, seeking help. What, what recommend you have? Or for instance, a guy like me that's never had, um, I dunno, I don't want too my horn, but never had an a, a struggle with an addiction. Um, how do I go about helping somebody that's, that's in need? I mean, I guess, uh, first and foremost, right, would be, like we said, talking about it, just normalizing it. So, you know, maybe you've never struggled with addiction, right? But I'm willing to bet that, uh, it's touched your life in some way that you probably know somebody who has and maybe even lost their battle with it. Oh, Several. So I think, you know, talking about that stuff is, is huge. You know what I mean? There's value in that to, to somebody because it shows that you have compassion and empathy towards somebody and that you're not gonna judge them. Okay. Um, that's one, you know, I mean, from there I think I would go like, and, and maybe try and organize with your local union. You know, talk to some of your leadership, you know what I mean? Talk to your, your business agents, your business manager. Go to your e-board and, and talk about, you know, like that you want to try and form some kind of program or, or at least just, uh, you know, have an event. Create a banner, something. See if there's other like-minded people in your local that are willing to, uh, you know, to take this on with you and, and organize. And I think the next step would be maybe going to your local, uh, building trades council, you know what I mean? And trying to organize with the other trades and the other unions that are in there. And, you know, that's kind of how this, you know, grew into what it was. And, um, You know, I mean, that's how it starts. That's what we do. That's what we were taught is to organize, you know, we can achieve, we can achieve anything if we organize exactly. There, there's one thing, right? So I took some notes too on your questions and I got one more I gotta check off before I can just cost this and uh, and, and wing it. But, so one of the other things that we've begun to do, um, like I said, there are a few trades that have internal EAPs and they can call. So that would be your laborers, carpenters, and teamsters. Most of the other trades will utilize an external, uh, uh, employee assistance program. And, and we use them and they're great. Um, anytime I've had a call to get the referral for a treatment center, I, I, I've never had any issues. Um, but in the past, right? One of the biggest problems that we ran into when people would reach out for help is, you know, our, our health and welfare system, right? So you need to work a certain amount of hours to be eligible for your health insurance. For us, it's 600 hours and a six month period. Well, if you've been out running a muck shooting dope for eight months, chances are you're not working uh, 600 hours. You know what I mean? So, and you're probably working 600 hours in a week if you're shooting. Yeah. Just not on, just not on site. So like, some of the biggest problem, they'd reach out for help and, uh, and they're not covered on the health plan, you know? And, and we've been lucky enough that our, our e a p that we utilize, um, you know, because. They work for us as well as many other unions. They've developed relationships with treatment centers and they've said, Hey, you know, this guy's struggling. He's not covered. We really need like a free bed. Can you help get him in? And, and that's worked out. You know, I haven't heard no too many times, but you know, when I have, I've, I've fought my ass off just like I would on a job site as a steward for somebody else in, in a different situation. And uh, and that's one of the things that we've worked on. So, you know, This is a whole nother topic I could go on for hours about, but, uh, recovery and, and treatment has really become like a racket. Uh, it it's a business, you know? Yeah. As much as, I hate to admit it, it's become a business in, in different parts of our country, in Massachusetts is one of them. So a lot of these treatment centers are opening up and when they find out, you know, who some of the members are of these recovery councils and, and internal EAPs and labor assistance professionals, they know what our roles are in our unions and that we have these health insurance plans and they want us to utilize them. When our members need help, they want. to get us to use their treatment centers. And, uh, and you know, I can appreciate that and that, and that's all good. I want what's best for my members. So we've been able to develop, I've personally been able to develop relationships with different treatment centers in and around Boston. And, you know, when I need to get a guy, a bed in there, if he calls me, I can call that place up, have it set and ready to go. We get our approval through our eap and they're in there. And through these relationships, you were able to tell them, Hey, listen, you know, we're gonna run into to members that call that are not covered on health insurance. So, you know, if you're gonna ask me to, to send my my members to you when they need help, I need you to take them whether they have insurance or not. You know? Yeah. And that's just one of the ways that we can bargain, just like we would in our CBA negotiations with contractors and things like that. Hey, yeah, sure. I'll, I'll make sure that I'm, you know, exclusively sending my members to you. But I don't ever want to hear the word no. You know, we're not taking him cuz he doesn't have insurance. And uh, and that's been an effective way to, to, to help our membership and, and kind of leverage our way with these positions and, and these relationships with treatment centers. That's really, that's really fascinating. And it's, it's sad almost too, because there is the no, that no comes when people are looking for help. They still get a no because of a, you know, some sort of a monetarial monetary issue or something. I mean, that's, it's too bad. Whole thing's ran by insurance companies, bud. Mm-hmm. I hate to be that guy, but that's cool that you guys, you know, I mean, that shows how much you guys actually give a shit because you always hear it, you know, like, and other places, oh, we're here to help you. We're here to help you. You know, and Oh, you don't have insurance. Well, you know, I'm here to talk to you, and they need more than just, I'm here to talk to you. You know, sometimes that is all they need, but a lot of times when they need serious treatment, like you're talking about, for you guys to be able to go to bat, and when you actually negotiate with these people and tell them, Hey man, yeah, we're gonna send everyone to you, but you're gonna take everyone, you know, and, you know, I mean, it's, it's cool. That shows a lot there too, that the, the membership can see that it's not just a, a bullshit, you know, I'm here to help you. Just call me. It's actually, I am here to help you. Just call me. You know? I mean, it is, and you know how I originally got involved with this, right? Like I mentioned, we had a business agent. Our business manager, we're both in recovery and, uh, you know, we have the, our, the AA meeting that's at our union hall. And, and there's a lot of members that we have that are in recovery. We know each other, some other people know us. But, um, you know, initially when this, uh, building Trades Recovery Council formed, you know, we had the, our business agent as the representative, and that was basically it for all the trades as well. And they decided to start getting some of the, uh, rank and file members involved, right? Because when you tell somebody right, who's struggling and they reach out for help and say, Hey, yeah, go call your business agent, they're gonna help you out. Chances are, they're gonna be a little reluctant to do that. You know, they're gonna be like, what? I, I don't, I don't wanna call my business agent and tell him, you know, that I'm struggling. I need to go to detox because, uh, you know, see, I know, right? I know our leadership, I know that like, they'll go to bat view. They'll get, they'll drive you at two in the morning, come pick you up, take you to detox, help you get your job back when you get out. But telling that to somebody who's actually struggling, um, they might not necessarily believe it. So we've tried to get a lot more rank and file members involved, you know, with this so that people, apprentices especially, would feel comfortable reaching out to us. Seems like the biggest thing, or at least one of the biggest takeaways has been setting the example. So like you said, being vocal about your recovery, getting the rank and file members involved in doing stuff like this. Cause it's one thing to have the local royalty, you know, be the guys doing it, but it's another thing to have the brother you're hanging iron with be one of'em as well. You know, cuz you relate more to that guy than you do to your business agent. You know, you have no idea what that guy's struggles are. And so that, I actually think that makes a lot of sense. That's a big s I wouldn't even say it's a stigma, but one of the barriers to break down cuz it's not, like I said, it's hard to relate to the business agent, but it's easy to relate to guys like us, you know what I mean? So they need to be involved as well. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, exactly. Now if I, if I remember right, wasn't it a, uh, somebody in Local seven. Who actually made the big push to get our international, to get that, their re recovery program, uh, set in place. Yeah. I'm not names or anything, I just want to, you know, I mean they've got their anonymity, but I've, it's just a, cuz local sevens played a huge part in our international, having this awareness and making sure this stuff happens. And I've been to, uh, I went to meetings at Impact and I thought I, I almost went to one at convention, but I was thinking, ah, you know, it's just gonna be another one of those meetings and one at Impact. And I was like, holy shit man, I can relate to this. Can I get one of these in my town? Because we, like, it brings a circle of addicts and alcoholics and recovery together where it's not an a meeting, it's not an NA meeting, it is Iron Workers in recovery. and you cannot get any more. I mean, if you want to not be special, you go there. You are not gonna everybody. is same exact shoes you're in. I am an iron worker. I boom out. I did this, I do that. I'm struggling. Let's talk. Yeah, no, you're right. It, it was actually a big push from us. And I mean it's, uh, you know, as far as the anonymity goes, I mean he, um, he's very vocal about it. He always has been. In fact, it must just be something in the water here. But I mean, when you look at it was our, um, he's now our district council president in New England. It's it Sean Neely. Yeah. And, and he's been very vocal about all this stuff and he doesn't, you know, hide who he is. He never has. When you look at our former mayor, who's now a current secretary of Labor, another guy, union member, uh, recovering alcoholic, and he's not shy about it either. You know, so, I mean, I, it's just, that's huge. I think it's something that we've viewed here in Boston, seeing what's happening in the field, seeing what's happening with our brothers and sisters and you know, like we said, we we're gonna recover out loud so that our brothers and sisters don't suffer in silence cuz it's happening all too often. You know, you're seeing overdoses on job sites. Uh, you know, the, the, the number of members that were losing per year, the overdose in suicide. It's, uh, you know, it's very, and, and, and a lot of our general contractors are starting to realize it too. And they're starting to change their tune about it. You know, it, it, it used to be like, this is unacceptable. We need to put a stop to it. And it was more about like, just kind of getting it off the job site. Now it's been more about, they're starting to see that they, they get farther with this whole thing when they show that they care and, and are actually willing to work with people and, and get them the help that they need because, you know, it's not, I don't think it's not gonna change overnight. It might get worse before it gets better, you know? Yeah. Boston and, and Massachusetts in general, ha has been booming, you know, um, we, we got well over, I think 300 travelers on any given month, putting in, in, in man hours up here. And there's a lot of jobs working overtime, 7 12 2 shifts. You know, like when you're expecting that kind of work and production out of people, right. They're gonna be hurting, they're gonna be sore. And as it is already, like, you know, we, we work hard, we play hard, you know what I mean? So when you're working those kind of hours and you're making that kind of money and, and, you know, sometimes it's just guys are using just to, to kill the pain, the aches and pains and, and, and to keep themselves going, you know, and then all of a sudden they wake up and, and it becomes a problem. Nobody in my experience, right, and actually I was the last one to realize that I had a problem. You know, you, you're never the first one to realize it. You're always the last. Yeah. That ain't no shit really. It just, it's out there. It's gotta be talked about. And you know, this is another thing I, I put it on my notes and I scratch it out. Said I'm not gonna talk about it now that we're getting out there with it, you know, I think it does need to be said. But, you know, we had an incident a month ago, um, job site right next to mine. They, uh, I'm not gonna say the trade, but they found four people, um, unconscious and unresponsive in their shack. And they evacuated the building cuz they thought it was a gas leak. Right. Find four people sitting there unresponsive. Oh yeah. It was an overdose. It was fentanyl, overdose. Wow. You know, and, uh, thank god that signatory. Had Narcan on site. Right. But, uh, you know, the, the, the epidemic that we're dealing with and the amount of fentanyl that's on the streets right now, they ran out, they ran out of the, they had to give, I think they had said like three doses of Narcan to each guy that they found unresponsive. So the contractor ran out and then the fire department came, and luckily they had a few more and they were able to revive them all, you know. Um, but that was, you know, an incident that, that everybody talked about. And, you know, I don't know exactly what happened after that, but there were rumors going around it. They were all fired. They were all fired, and they said, don't, don't even attempt to file for unemployment. Um, which is unfortunate. And yeah, it, if that's true, then, then it, it, it really, really bothers me. But, you know, it's a reality. That's what we're dealing with. It's here, we gotta, we gotta deal with it, we gotta face it. Well, and, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Narcan. Kind of bring that home. Narcan is what they use, and it basically sucks that out of your system. Correct? Correct. Whenever they inject in that chemical, it, it pulls whatever that, that you're overdosed on. It sucks that right outta your system almost immediately. So the fact that it reverses an overdose, they needed three doses per person is incredibly, I mean, that's scary. I mean, so one of my good friends works at a treatment center. She's the, uh, head. She's actually my son's godmother. Um, and this is also one of the relationships that I've formed. I send a lot of my members to her and she takes care of them and she understands that we're a special breed and she'll, uh, she, she takes good care of our guys. Um, but what she's, what what she told me that guys are coming in and they're doing the initial blood screen or the urinalysis, is that, you know, these guy's coming in and there's no opiates in their system. It's just fentanyl. Wow. Yeah. So, you know, it's, uh, some of the stories that we've been hearing is, you know, sometimes in the trades, you know, guys like, you know, they'll, they'll use pills, right? Percocets, whatever it might be, thinking, oh, it's not as bad as say heroin. But what you're seeing nowadays on the street is, is they're just using fentanyl and pressing them into pills. You know, so you don't know what, what you're doing out there. You don't know whatever you're taking. It might not be safe. It's just, uh, it's a scary time, man. You know, when I got clean, we didn't have to worry about all this stuff, not You couldn't just get Narcan. It wasn't easily available. You didn't have fentanyl, like just running, ramping everywhere. It, it, it, it wasn't like this man. It'd be a scary time to, you know, to be, to be out there using right. Well, it's, I think it, it's, it's twofold though, cuz yes, it is scary, but in return there's people like you that are out here doing what you're doing and making it so that those people that are struggling have a, have a, you know, some light at the end of the tunnel, I guess, for lack of a better word. But, um, so I guess it's twofold, you know, it is scary, but you know, when that, when that fear comes along there is that, you know, that, that lighting in the tunnel, which is you and, and what local Seven's doing for the, the entire international and, you know, the Massachusetts building trades, which you guys are doing for all of Massachusetts and, and the working class. I mean, if that's not union, I don't know what is, you know, I mean, that's straight up, down to, uh, being your brother's keeper and, and taking care of one another and, you know, and, and shouldering each other's burdens. And that's, that's how we get through it, I guess, you know, is, is by, You know, like Tanner, I think I said, or maybe it was, uh, less, but you know, being that hand down to pull somebody up to the level you're at, if we all started doing that, you know, and actually giving a shit about each other more than just, oh, I'll go to work and, you know, I do my thing at work and then I do my thing at home and, you know, but take a second and realize, okay, I, I have the opportunity now to, to reach out and affect somebody's life in a good way. How can I do it and how can I do it better? And how can they be better and how can we all get to that same end goal, you know, that topping out piece, like we talked about, you know, make sure all of my brothers are signing every one of those topping out pieces every year and not losing six a year. You know, I mean, if you, it just fascinates me to think if you, you know, if you put all of our members on a, on a beam, you know, we paint a beam, we put all our members on that and then cross'em out every year, six no six names at a time. You know how, how. eye opening. That might be to, to show people in the last 10 years you've lost 60 people, 60 people out of 600. That's 10% of the people. Right. You know, that's 10% of your local, or I mean, you guys are probably up in 6,000 or something, but you know what I mean? Like, uh, just under 4,000, so you guys got quite a few people in your local, but I mean, I'm happy that there's people out there like you believe that are, are really just going above and beyond for each other. It's, it's impressive, man. I appreciate you. Thank you brother. Um, is there anything else you'd like to share about what you got going on or? No, I think I've, uh, you know, I've pretty much touched on, on everything, you know. I know. Uh, This is the Ironworkers podcast. And I, and I, I had a feeling once we got into this stuff, we, we wouldn't end up talking too much about, you know, on the field, you know, out in the field, uh, stuff. But, um, you know, I think it's important to have these conversations, you know, and get it out there. And that's why I kind of reached out to you guys after that, the episode that I listened to. So, you know, I'm glad I was able to come on and, and talk about this stuff and, you know, um, you know, hopefully somebody hears something and takes, you know, take, takes action and, and conform something similar in their area. Yeah, definitely. And, and that's not to say we don't have you back on and hear about your career and your stories of the yard worker. I mean, this, I felt like this is a good way to start off our 2023 year and, you know, by getting this, this information, which is super crucial to like our membership, you know, and, and everybody. So, um, we'd love to have you back on and just talk ironworker. Yeah. Iron Worker podcast, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I'd be, I'd be happy to. Cause I got some stories on that too, for sure. Oh, No, I'm sure you guys do, you did send me some pictures of your indoor work the other day and that was, that was kind of impressive. Um, I tell you, it's not all that's cracked up to me though. I didn't like, everybody's like little jealous that I'm indoors. I'm like, dude, it, it's so gross in it. Cuz I mean they're like, they're doing all this demo work and, and they're jackhammering in the lobby and the building's clo. I've had like a perpetual science infection for like three months. I go home and I'm blowing black mud outta my nose. Snot rockets. It's, it's not all it's cracked up to be, you know what I mean? Black boo committee Yeah, definitely. Well, you guys, we kind of end our, uh, our, our shows usually, um, with some advice. Um, from journeyman to apprentice or from journeyman to Journeyman or whatever, um, what advice would you give to, um, those that are struggling and with addiction or just are, are struggling finding help or whatever, what advice would you give them to help them, uh, succeed? You know, that's, uh, good question. That's a tough, that's a tough one. I mean, considering what, what I've seen getting involved in all this work and, and maybe how some other trades and some other locals, you know, handle this kind of stuff. You know, I'd love to say, Hey, reach out to, you know, talk to your steward, talk to your business agent. But that's not always the best route to go in, in certain trades or, or even certain locals, but, You know, try and find somebody like there, there's help out there, there's resources as far as our industry goes, you know, um, there, there are resources. Impact, uh, certainly provides a lot of those resources. So even if you can't find the help you need in your local or maybe even your district council, uh, go on Impact website. Uh, there is a suicide prevention hotline. Uh, one I think that's specifically run through impact. Uh, they have substance abuse awareness programs and, and material that you can read. And, um, you know, other than that, there, there's lots of other community resources outside of, you know, the iron workers and the building trades. Um, various 12 step fellowships and, and things like that. Uh, there's help out. You know, it's possible. You're looking at a guy, you're staring at a guy who, you know, 12 years ago was homeless, hopeless, didn't care whether or not he, he lived or died, you know, and he often hoped that he would just, you know, use that one last bag and not wake up. And, you know, today I'm, I'm, you know, I, I have a beautiful family that I love, uh, a budding career. You know, friends and just very, like, my life is so goddamn busy today. You know, it's, it, it's, it's a headache sometimes, but it's all like good things. You know what I mean? Like, I couldn't get off of the block. I couldn't get out of a jail cell 12 years ago. And, and, you know, these days I, I traveled the world, you know, I always said I wanted to go to Ireland, to St. Patrick's Day, and I had a friend who moved over there. I fucking did it last year, man. Just, you know, like, just no questions asked. Went out there and did it. That kind of stuff wasn't possible, you know what I mean? When I was kind of had those chains of addictions, so like, you know, my story's extreme, you know, I've come from like the bottom, from the gutter and I pulled myself out. There is help out there. Even if you feel like you, you know, you can't get it. There's help. So if you can't find it in your local, um, just go up the food chain and, and if you don't find it anywhere in this industry, find it elsewhere, right? Because no matter who you are, your life matters. Like, uh, I like that a lot. Awesome. Well, Billy, like again, I appreciate you. Um, we appreciate all that you're doing and the work that you're putting in and, and I, I hope you hope you know, it doesn't go unrecognized cuz it, it, it is very much recognized and, um, and appreciated. Everything you've done and that you're doing and you're really, you're making waves in a pond where people are just putting ripples out there and it's, it's, it's impressive and I'm grateful and I'm, I'm grateful to know you and the work that you're doing and I, I I back it 100%. Whatever I can do to help get that word out. Yeah, tha thank you for the words. I appreciate it. You know, thanks for having me on. If, if this does reach anybody who, who's listening to your podcast and you know, they need to get in touch, feel free to, you know, put the two of us in touch together. Any, uh, resources or information you need, I'll pass it along and, uh, you know, we'll, we'll go from there. I mean, just thank you Billy. And, uh, I'd like to, I mean, a huge shout out to Local seven. I mean, I've never even stepped foot in that local and they've helped me. You know, I've, I've gone to those recovery meetings with our international, I mean, and everything your guys' local has pushed for, and what you guys have done is awesome, and it helps everyone. And all I can say is that, you know, I mean, if, if you're struggling and you want help reach out. I mean, like reach out to, whether it be, uh, if you're a union iron worker, reach out to whoever you know that's vocal about their sobriety in the local or reach out to anywhere outside of that. Just reach out. No matter where it is, reach out. And if you're, uh, a non-union, uh, if you're a non-union iron worker out there worker, period, and you need help and you want it, don't be afraid to hit us up. We can point you out where you need to go. Um, I'll gladly talk to you. I'd rather spend a, you know, I'd rather spend a little bit of time on a phone with somebody. I don't know, rather than hear that that person I don't know, has family members that doesn't have the person they love anymore. So, Yeah, and I, I'll, I'll back that with, if you guys have any issues, get in touch with us on our, our pod, our Instagram page, the Ironworker podcast. Um, myself as an organizer, um, I got quite a few connections around the country, so I'll be able to help get you in touch with somebody and, and Les as well, um, and get you guys rolling in, in the right direction and, and on your feet and get your legs under here. Let us know. I mean, it's, no, it's a conversation between iron workers, not, not between, you know, somebody that has no clue about us. We're, we're all here together and we're all gonna get to that end goal, so we appreciate you. Well, thank you guys. I appreciate it. Hey, thank you. You, uh, you have a great day and enjoy that, uh, little two-year-old boy you got and, and, uh, stay safe at. You as well too hot indoors. all guys, thanks for coming on. Appreciate y'all. Be good. Thank you. Bye. See you safe. Bye.

Track 1: 1:34:11

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