Client Story: Emily + Kirk (Vasectomy Reversal)

Some couples, when they feel their family is complete, will choose to have a vasectomy, when the man's fertility is rendered sterile. This is considered a permanent decision. But what happens if you change your mind? Your life situation changes? Your priorities are different? You regret your decision? Woven clients, Emily and Kirk, share their story of walking through getting a vasectomy and almost instantly regretting it. Hear why they got it, why they regretted it, and what they did to respond to God's invitation to return to full fertility again. 

NOTE: This episode includes words like sperm, seminal fluid, and vas deferens and may not be appropriate for all audiences. Adoption and foster care are mentioned. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to the Woven Well podcast. I'm your host, Caitlyn Estes. I'm a certified fertility care practitioner with a master of divinity degree. Each episode will cover a topic that helps educate and empower you and your fertility while honoring the deep connection your fertility has with your faith. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Woven Will podcast. I believe that a part of empowering and educating women is connecting them with other women on the same journey. That's why we have episodes devoted to hearing the fertility journey of a woman or couple who are a part of woven whatever your situation or fertility goal, the fertility journey can sometimes feel really isolating. But I assure you that there is a whole community out there asking the same questions you are today. I'm excited for you to hear the story of Emily and Kirk. They've been married for almost 10 years, are raising two children, and began working with me this year after having a reversed vasectomy. So vasectomy is a procedure that disconnects the sperm from being able to leave the body, which makes all seminal fluid, sterile, and it's a surgical procedure that's considered permanent, although it can sometimes be reversed. And that's the case for Emily and Kirk. So thank you all so much for being on, welcome to the show and I'm excited for you to be here with us.

Speaker 2: 1:29

Hey, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:30

So we're gonna dive into the topic of vasectomies pretty quickly, but first, why don't you just sort of introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about your family makeup.

Speaker 3: 1:40

Yeah, so we are in our early and mid thirties. We have two kids, like you said, they are five and three and we've been married almost 10 years. And um, I work full-time. I'm a C P A and Kirk is primarily a stay-at-home dad. And I say that, but then I started to list off everything he does. He works , um, part-time as a music teacher. He works part-time in retail doing gun sales and he also, we play music together too.

Speaker 2: 2:10

And I'm a chicken farmer.

Speaker 1: 2:12

Amazing. Those are really cool things. <laugh>,

Speaker 3: 2:15

So he almost works full time too. <laugh> ,

Speaker 1: 2:18

Seriously, add all that together. Absolutely. Okay, let's go ahead and talk about it. So what made you first consider getting a vasectomy? What made you feel like it was the right choice for y'all?

Speaker 2: 2:30

Honestly, I can say that it never really felt like the right choice, but , um, we were just kind of put in a predicament of having had a recent miscarriage and a really stressful like year of moving houses and changing jobs and reorganizing everything on the fly. Like, and then it turned out that like this economic turn made house is really hard to buy. And , um, in our area especially, it felt very difficult. And then when we finally found our house , um, my dad had said like, Hey, there's an extra bedroom. How perfect. You know, like, fill it. And uh, I was like, that's great. And then shortly after that we had our, our second miscarriage and it was really hard on Emily. It was very difficult to me just thinking about like, you know, then you walk by that room all the time and that's kind of the only thought you have. And so , um, you know , um, Emily shared a lot of her concerns about having another miscarriage with me and uh, I didn't want her to end up feeling that way. And frankly, it feels really bad. So we were pretty afraid of trying to do it. Um, again. And so , um, I said, you know, like since it's kind of my turn, she's had like four pregnancies, I figured it's my turn to bite the bullet and, and do , uh, this minor surgery , um, that I would go through with it. Um, you know, little did we know it was actually gonna be a lot more difficult since we changed jobs and moved and gone through a lot of other things. In the meantime, our health insurance stopped working with my primary care provider. And so , um, when I started the process, then we had to restart it all over again, like two more times and you'd think that we would've taken it as a sign. And we actually did at one point we were like driving there, we were like, maybe it's a sign that we should stop. And I was like, no, I'm determined we're gonna do this. So yeah,

Speaker 3: 4:29

I think we just wanted to feel like we were in control over something or I did. I felt like if I get pregnant quickly again, which like it seemed like would probably happen. Like it's going to just not be easy. So just ready to be done.

Speaker 1: 4:44

Yeah. That fear is in intense and I do not blame you for not wanting to walk through another miscarriage and how scary that is. And it seems like a quick fix right? To that fear , um mm-hmm. <affirmative> . So I understand that, but obviously something changed for you all. Um, and so I'd love to hear about that. What happened, when did things shift?

Speaker 2: 5:09

I mean, for me, I kind of had some like instant regret over it, but was pretty resigned to the fact that like this was our decision and I'm sticking with it. Um, I , we talked about adopting and doing like foster and we're actually going through that process right now. But , um, you know, in the , in the meantime and in the process, Emily kind of started to have a change of heart the minute that she asked if I would be willing to reverse it, which I had no idea was a thing. I thought it was like a joke on on that , you know, what's that show? The o the office, you know , office . I thought that was like a joke, you know? Oh , yes . And , uh,

Speaker 1: 5:50

Snap , snap , SnipSnap ,

Speaker 2: 5:51

<laugh> , you know , the second that Emily was like, it's an option, you know, if I said that I would want to try again, would you be interested? And I blurted out, yeah, let's do it. Book it. And uh, that really took her by surprise.

Speaker 3: 6:05

And we started going to a new church at the time too, and we just had a lot of spiritual growth during that year.

Speaker 2: 6:11

And support.

Speaker 3: 6:12

And support too. Different support . Yeah. Like we saw people with larger families, but it hadn't necessarily just been like an easy road for them either. And so I felt like okay, probably the right choice for us would have not been to get a vasectomy, but just to delay pregnancy for a while . And so then I started to really regret it. And even with foster care and adopting like we're going through the foster care licensing process, but we just didn't feel like that would replace having another biological child either. So

Speaker 1: 6:44

Different experiences, right?

Speaker 3: 6:46

Yeah . So yeah, I remember coming home from work, or actually I think Kirk got home from work and I had been researching it after the kids had gone to bed. And uh, I was like, would you, would you be willing? And I had , we hadn't talked about it at all and he was like, yes. And then we looked it up and the, the clinic that we were gonna go through, he had a , uh, opening for the like Monday or Tuesday of a week that I had already requested off of work. And so we were like, it feels like let's do it. Let's get it

Speaker 2: 7:17

Scheduled. Yeah . And also there were like two, two clinicians that do it in St. Louis. Um, Midwest Vasectomy Reversal is the guy that we went through, but then there's another guy. And so we're like an hour and a half away from St. Louis. We , we booked it. It was just very easy to get there too. Some people fly in, he's pretty well known for it. Wow . Um, he also has like a slightly better success rate only because like mo , most doctors who do them do one side and he does both fa deference . And so , um, he's like, while I'm in there, it only takes like two more minutes, may as well <laugh>. And he is like, it gives you a better chance. So

Speaker 1: 7:55

Good for him.

Speaker 2: 7:56

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So yeah. So

Speaker 1: 7:58

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Yeah, he was really nice.

Speaker 1: 8:00

I know it can be difficult to find doctors who do that. So I think it's really great that you found too because the majority of the time it's considered a permanent procedure. So the fact that there are doctors who are willing to reverse it and it's still not a guaranteed thing that it will be successful, but the fact that there are doctors out there who will go ahead and do that, and like you said, your doctor gave you the best shot possible. Right. Um, I think that's really wonderful that they are doing that. I also think it's really wonderful that the thing that really changed for you all is not how you felt about it, cuz it kind of sounds like you felt pinned into a corner, like you felt forced to do this because you didn't know what your other options were, is the impression I get mm-hmm . <affirmative> . But the thing that changed for you was having the support of the local church, seeing friends and families go through hard times, but do it together within a community. Wow. That is powerful stuff right there.

Speaker 3: 9:01

Yeah. One of our friends is very outspoken about using natural family planning and Creighton specifically. And so that was really helpful. Like up until that point I was like, it wouldn't work for me. I, you know, at that time had pretty irregular cycles and so then like looking up more about it and I was like, okay, if we do this and we get pregnant again or if we, even if we miscarry again and need to delay it again, we can and we'll have the tools for that. Yes.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Having that ability to know that you're just not at the mercy of whatever happens, but you can intentionally delay pregnancy and you can intentionally try to conceive when you know you're as healthy as possible and you're ready , uh, that's a game changer that really makes a significant difference. Um, so I'm sure there are gonna be other people listening to this episode who are considering getting a vasectomy or they're trying to decide if that's the right thing for them. I'd love to hear what you would encourage other couples to consider when thinking about a vasectomy.

Speaker 2: 10:05

So , um, I'm actually pretty outspoken about it now and I , uh, have talked to a lot of people <laugh>, but I, I've had like some friends who like I mentioned it to who like, he, he didn't have a vasectomy. His wife actually had a , a tubal Mm . And it was like their second marriage, but they had both had kids from a previous marriage mm-hmm. <affirmative> . And so, you know, he said like, one of my biggest regrets that I think I'll take to my grave is that like, I don't have the opportunity to have more children. Mm . And it just really struck me because it feels like there are probably a lot of guys who are like me who are like, well, it's a thing that I need to do and like, there's a job to do. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna shut up. And like that's my feelings is that like, even if I do feel like I want more kids, I feel like this is better and that's the choice. Mm . And um, you know, talk about it more is one thing and just like really consider like, do you ever want more kids? Mm . And if so, you know, that's something that like, that you might take to your grave knowing that you wanted more and you decided the other option. And , uh, I just thought that was really interesting. Like when he said that to me, it really like struck me cause it was like I didn't think that there'd be anybody else who would actually feel like that. Most people are like, cool the deed's done. And now we can have just fun uhhuh , you know, and not have to worry about the , uh, repercussions or anything like that. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> because it always feels like it's a repercussion as opposed to like an intended fact of life that you want. Mm . If that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 11:40

Yeah , absolutely.

Speaker 2: 11:42

So I shared that with , um, an another friend because they, he and his wife had just gone through like, and I'll spare some details cuz I was told to, but a really horrible pregnancy with like multiple factors even outside of the pregnancy that would make anybody just wish that they would never have to go through that again. And so , um, you know, he, he mentioned to me, he was like, Hey, I saw you got yours reversed. I'm in line to go get mine. And , um, I told him what my other friend had said about, you know, like, Hey, you know, there's this fact of it where you may feel like you want more and there's this potential where you could never have them again. And just because you feel afraid of it now doesn't mean that your mind won't change. And like, you'll have some peace about it and realize like, hey, like, like life can be horrible and it can throw horrible things at you, but like, if you are faithful and you are determined, you know, then like you deciding to do this will be the deciding factor not life around you. And so, like he's kind of a conspiracy theorist and uh, after he and I had like gotten off of like chatting together and stuff like that, he goes, well, you know, bill Gates v darned, I'm going to have more kids if I want him .

Speaker 1: 13:03

Oh man.

Speaker 2: 13:05

So I think , I think I may have turned his , uh, his mindset around a little bit, you know? Yeah . It's just like, I, I didn't think of it that way. Yeah. If I want my kids, I'm gonna have 'em , you know.

Speaker 1: 13:16

Well, and the interesting thing to me about the different stories you just shared is something they had in common with yours is that piece of like, that fear piece, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , we don't know what's to come. We don't know if it's gonna be painful. We don't know if it's gonna be difficult, and so we wanna spare ourselves that pain and suffering. But when we do that at the same time, it sounds like what you're saying is you miss out on something. It may be more children, it may be that full gift that you can share between husband and wife. Um, it may be God's speaking to you in that moment. And you know, we were so set on what we think we can do to fix this situation , uh, that maybe we don't listen to it. Like earlier you were talking about how maybe there were signs that we shouldn't have gotten it done, we're so focused <laugh> , and yet when the doctor's appointment was available and you all said, this is a sign, this is, we're supposed to do it. You know, so that openness to what is God doing and how can we respond to it ? I think that is such a beautiful way to make a decision versus based on fear of what can I control? What can I do to make sure that this bad thing, the suffering that we don't wanna happen doesn't happen. Um, I think there is really something to that.

Speaker 2: 14:37

Well, and if I may add too , like aside from those things, you know, there's a lot of cultural pressure Okay. Where everything has been kind of crafted for convenience and , um, you know, like, well, like we were at the grocery store and we heard a grandpa say, you know, I'm visiting my grandchildren. They're a lot, they should stop. And so when you have this feeling of people around you that say, you know, like , well, two kids is enough or three is a lot, you know, it's like, well you don't know that for me because we could have had four. And so when that's right . When people share those things and they say, oh, well that's a lot of kids. It's like, well, I want, I wanted a lot of kids. And we actually met another family at our church where the, the dad was like , um, the third kid and they decided to stop and he said, well, why, why don't I have a little brother and a sister? And they said, well, we didn't wanna miss out on you. We wanna make time for you. And you know, we didn't want to like spend our time stretched out so much. And he said, well, I wanna have as many kids as I can possibly have. And so they have like 15 kids or something like that. And we met them and that's like another thing from our, our church. It just kinda like changed my mind. It was just like , yeah, fill it

Speaker 1: 15:53

Up. Doesn't get less and less for child <laugh> . It multiplies with every child. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 15:58

I think, you know, one kid can feel like a lot, two kids can feel like whatever circumstance you're in can feel like a lot, but parenting changes, like now that we have a three and a five year old , it's, you know, in some ways it's harder, but in some ways it's a lot easier than having, you know, a one and a three year old , which is, you know, closer to when we made the decision. So things change and you may change your mind too, and you may not, but at least then you have the option

Speaker 1: 16:26

Absolutely. That

Speaker 3: 16:26

You can change your

Speaker 1: 16:27

Mind. That's one of the things we love about the Creighton system, which you all know, is that you do have that total flexibility every single cycle. You as a couple get to make the decision, are we trying to conceive a pregnancy this cycle, or are we avoiding pregnancy this cycle? And you get to make that decision every single cycle until you all are no longer fertile as a couple. So there is that total flexibility within that. And I think that allows for a lot of conversation, a lot of , uh, partnership in the journey and keeps things open because you never know, like you said, you may wanna have more children, but even if you decide not to, because every family is different, every couple is called to a different number of children. Uh, even if you decide not to, you still have that connection and that bond that you have knowing we're in this together, we're on the same page. We're talking about this, we're making decisions as a couple, which I think is really helpful. You all have shared so much good stuff. I am so appreciative of the fact that you would be so open and honest about your thoughts and , um, what your experience has been like. And I just wanna thank you so much for being on the show today and for talking with us about all of that.

Speaker 2: 17:46

Thank

Speaker 3: 17:47

You . Thanks so much.

Speaker 1: 17:49

So our woven community is made up of some pretty incredible people, just like Emily and Kirk. We ask honest questions of our fertility and our faith. We believe that our bodies were made with beauty and purpose, that we are intimately designed and loved by our creator, and that fertility plays a meaningful role in our lives. We believe that this matters for all of us, regardless of our marital status or our pregnancy intentions, all of us. So I'd love for you to be a part of that community. Our website@wovenfertility.com has tons of free resources and a way to sign up for our newsletter, which is a great way to hear from me and woven once a month. But if you're feeling ready to get started and use Creighton for your family planning like Emily and Kirk have, then I wanna invite you to our next introductory session. It's the perfect way to learn more and then get started with Creighton. You can register@wovenfertility.com slash join us or click on the link in the show notes. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well .