Ep. 153: How Theology of the Body can help you discern when to have a baby, with Jen Settle

Caitlin welcomes Director of Ongoing Spiritual Formation, Jen Settle, back to the show to discuss the complexities of family planning and the discernment process couples face when considering pregnancy. Family planning isn't easy, but you're not alone! In this episode, Caitlin and Jen explore serious reasons for avoiding pregnancy, the weight of bringing new life into the world, and practical discernment practices that can help couples navigate these family planning decisions. 

NOTE: This episode is appropriate for all audiences.

Chapters
00:00 The Journey of Family Growth
05:10 The Weight of Discernment in Parenthood
11:41 Understanding Serious Reasons to Avoid Pregnancy
19:35 Practical Discernment Practices for Couples

Show Resources: 

• Substack for bite sized conversations on fertility + faith: wovenfertility.substack.com
• Theology of the Body: tobinstitute.org
• Theology of the Body 1 - head and heart immersion course: https://tobinstitute.org/programs/tob-1/

Relevant episodes you may enjoy: 

Episode 108: Choosing a Natural Family Planning method

Episode 110: Should we have another baby?

Episode 140: Isn't Natural Family Planning a Catholic thing?

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Interested in conversations about the intersection of fertility and faith? Join us on Substack for free!

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Keywords: family growth, discernment, pregnancy, serious reasons, parenting, Theology of the Body, spiritual direction, openness to life, marriage, guidance, abstinence, natural family planning, fertility awareness

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction & Journey of Family Growth
• 5:10 Discernment about Parenthood
• 11:41 Exploring Serious Reasons to Avoid Pregnancy
• 19:35 Practical Discernment Practices for Couples

Transcript

Caitlin (00:27)
Welcome back to the Woven Well podcast. Growing your family comes with a lot of unknowns and uncertainties. Trying to make the decision of whether you should try to conceive or hold off, plan for another baby or be done. Like it's tough. And we've talked before and I'll make sure to link it in the show notes about how openness to life was the Christian standard across time and space in denominations until the 20th century. And even then it was very cautiously changed with the emphasis that couples only avoid pregnancy in extreme moral situations and not out of a place of luxury or convenience. And all of that guidance, by the way, not just coming from the Catholic Church. This was the major Protestant teaching as well. Certainly Catholics continue to hold to avoiding pregnancy only for serious reasons.

So regardless of which group you fall into, there remains one major question. How do we determine serious reasons to avoid pregnancy? Well, I decided to bring in some extra support to talk about it with us. Jen Settle has been on the show before introducing us to the theology of the body, and I'll make sure to link that episode in the show notes for you as well. But she's back today to talk about discerning reasons to avoid pregnancy.

Not only is she the director of ongoing formation at the Theology of the Body Institute, but she's also a spiritual director who is experienced in walking others through discernment practices like this one. Jen, welcome back to the show.

Jen (01:59)
Thank you, Caitlin. Happy to be here with you.

Caitlin (02:03)
So many couples are trying to discern whether they should avoid pregnancy for a time or maybe even indefinitely. And we know that this is going to be unique for every couple, but that's why we would love some guidance. Before we talk about the specific discernment practices though, would you mind if we first started with why pregnancy should be something a couple is routinely discerning throughout their marriage?

Jen (02:17)
Mm-hmm.

I mean, obviously just starting with the fact that like bringing another life into the world and cooperation with God is not something to take lightly. This is another eternal person that you are bringing into the world. So just starting there of like the impact and the weight of that, of recognizing that between husband and wife, their love that will conceive another child who will exist for all eternity.

Caitlin (02:38)
Yeah.

Jen (02:58)
It's an amazing gift that God has given and cooperates with man and woman, husband and wife in order to bring a life. So just even starting there of the reality of the impact of that, the joy of that, the gift of that. And so also there's, as we know in married life, that there are a lot of ebbs and flows to married life and to family life and situations.

Caitlin (03:22)
Yeah.

Jen (03:27)
When you discern to have a child one year, your life is totally different nine months later, or a year later. And it's like, is it time for us to have another child? It's a different discernment. It's a different discernment each time you're asking that question with God of is now the time for us to bring life. As you mentioned, we should always have an openness to life.

Caitlin (03:40)
Yes.

Jen (03:56)
That's how God created us male and female is to bring to bear life and cooperation with him. But we know that there are just ebbs and flows to married life, to family life, different circumstances and situations from month to month to year to year. And so at each time, it's just important to take a minute or a few minutes with the Lord and being able to end with your spouse.

Caitlin (04:18)
you

Jen (04:21)
And just look at the reality of like, the circumstance of your life in this moment. And you might think, well, can I do that every month? It's like, well, there should be some, some groundwork there, conversation, dialogue. Like as we enter into the union between, between us, there might be a possibility that we conceive a child. Is this the right time for us? And so the giftedness of being able to have that communication, to have that,

shared actual discernment of in our marriage, in our family life, is this a good time? Are we in a good place to be able to receive a child, cooperate with God to create another eternal person? Always mindful, however, however any life is conceived, whether there's discernment or not in that moment, it's a gift that that child is a gift. So

Caitlin (05:18)
Absolutely.

Jen (05:20)
Just being able to take a moment to really discern together as a couple, to say, what's going on in our marriage? What's going on in our family life? What's going on in the world? What are the circumstances? And is this the right time? And prayer and bringing able. And sometimes, you know, the Lord is like, you know, desiring you to enter into that. And there might be fear. There might be a lot of things that you're not, you're unsure of. And so.

Caitlin (05:31)
Mm. Mm.

Yeah.

Jen (05:48)
prayer in union with God and union with your spouse can help just bring clarity there as well.

Caitlin (05:53)
Yeah, it's always an opportunity and you made such a good point that it's going to be different in different seasons of our lives. So even though the question is the same, the circumstances and the answer may be different. So by routinely asking the question, you're giving the opportunity for God to give you guidance one way or the other. I think if we just assume it's always going to be one way and we're really not opening ourselves up through prayer like you talked about.

to be open to what God has for us. And I just want to clarify that that may sometimes mean, hey, we're ready for another child, but the Lord says the time is not right. So it's not always the, well, we want to avoid pregnancy, but we feel like the Lord is saying, ahead. It can be either way, that openness allows us the opportunity to discern with God. So as I mentioned at the beginning, you know, the Protestant church first broke with

the Church Universal on contraception back with the Anglican Conference back in the early 20th century. And their guidance talks about not avoiding pregnancy for reasons of convenience or luxury. I love those terms because it just gets you, you know? But Catholic guidance says to only avoid pregnancy for serious reasons.

Jen (07:13)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin (07:20)
regardless of where you're coming from, what your specific faith background is, there's obviously a heavy emphasis on not avoiding pregnancy for reasons that aren't serious. So why do think there's so much emphasis on this?

Jen (07:35)
I think first of all, it's like having the recognition that, as I just mentioned, that it's a serious business. It's like to bring an eternal person into the world for all eternity, like to cooperate with God and the gift of another human person. And so there's responsibility that goes along with that as husband and wife. And so being able to look at that question of, I be open to, what are our reasons for avoiding a child?

Caitlin (07:42)
Yeah.

Jen (08:05)
What are at this moment that might be different a month from now, six months from now, a year from now, but being able to help the couple understand the responsibility that goes, heavy responsibility that goes along with this, this action within their marriage that can bring another life into the world. And so I think that the call here of whether it's convenience and luxury or for serious reasons, I think we're pretty much saying the same thing in a certain sense of like,

Caitlin (08:33)
Yeah.

Yes.

Jen (08:35)
Do you know the weight of what you're doing as husband and wife and entering into sexual intercourse? Do you know the weight of that? And if you don't know the weight of that, this is where the church says, we wanna help guide you in that, to help you to understand the seriousness of this. And it's not just a matter of convenience and luxury, but there are serious reasons to avoid.

Caitlin (08:42)
Mmm. Mmm.

Jen (09:02)
But what is your discernment process? Is it frivolous? Is it, you know, we want to buy a second car or a new boat or, you know, like those kind of luxury, as you mentioned, those luxury items or, well, we only live in a three bedroom house. It's not convenient for us to have more children, you know, in the house that we live in. You know, those are all factors. But when we look at that, those factors combined with or in relationship to bringing another eternal person into this world, you know, that we have to look at. The Lord is asking us to cooperate with him in this creation of another human being. Is there a serious reason? Am I serious about this? Am I looking at it in a way that's responsible and not just frivolous? That makes sense.

Caitlin (09:55)
It does make sense. I'm thinking about the, as you're saying, the seriousness of the potential here. And so often we focus on the seriousness of what it would mean to create a new soul and bring another baby into the family. And that feels very overwhelming. And so therefore maybe we should be avoiding pregnancy. But I feel like you're also emphasizing the seriousness of what's at stake.

God's creation of a new life with our cooperating together with God and to flippantly or without thought say no to that is missing out on something serious. The weight of it is so important, is so impactful, the potential of another eternal soul that we have to balance it with that side as well.

Nobody ever talks about that side. Everyone always talks about the seriousness of, man, it is going to be more expensive or it is going to be difficult to have another child. And these are valid. These are absolutely valid. But I feel like you're emphasizing the balance between the two, that both are important. And so we can't let one side dominate over the other, whichever is more tempting.

Jen (10:50)
you

Absolutely.

Caitlin (11:17)
we really have to consider both as we prayerfully discern. So go ahead.

Jen (11:21)
Absolutely.

Yeah, just that sense of it's a both and in the sense of like, okay, yes, the things that are going on in my family, the economic situation, being overwhelmed, all of those things, yes, absolutely play into the discernment. They're part of the discernment. But we just can't make it exclusive to that. That it's like, even those things might still be true, but the Lord still might be asking us to be open to life.

And so if we haven't brought this to the Lord, this discernment to him, and really spent time listening to what the Lord is speaking to our hearts, we might miss out on what the Lord desires for our family.

Caitlin (12:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, so how do we listen, Help us, give us some discernment practices that we can utilize, you to help us determine if there are serious reasons to avoid pregnancy.

Jen (12:15)
Yes.

Yes, and the church in particular will talk about and John Paul the sixth, Pope Paul the sixth in Humana Vitae, which means of human life, the document that explains openness to life and explains responsible parenthood. The first thing he'll say is we need to actually bring this question to the Lord in prayer. That it's not that's the very first thing Lord.

Caitlin (12:43)
Mm. Yes.

Jen (12:47)
Are you desiring us to enter into cooperate with you to bring a new life into the world? And to actually pray fully together and also separately as husband and wife of like Loing my own heart. Am I ready as a wife to have another child? Am I ready as a husband? You know to have another child is what's going on in my own heart that the Lord's speaking into that can help me to understand

Caitlin (12:54)
Yeah.

Jen (13:15)
maybe nuances of my heart that I didn't even know existed, you know, that prayer helps us to do that in relationship with God because we are always in continual relationship with the Lord. So the first question is really to bring that question to the Lord in prayer, asking Him to help you, to give you the grace, asking for His guidance, anything that's in the way, like in my own heart and my own desires that are not of the Lord, to ask Him to remove those.

so that I can really, and also in the way in my relationship with my spouse, know, I ask him the Lord to give me the grace to be able to see my spouse as he sees him or her and to see the desires of her heart and to will the good of the other and the good of your family. So that clarity, that first step is really opening that question to the Lord because he also has input here. He also was meant to have.

Caitlin (14:12)
Absolutely.

Jen (14:14)
Yeah, he has input. I would say that would be the first one. And then actually looking at the discernment process. So Paul VI in Humanae Vitae, he says, can I do a quote and actually John Paul II in Theology of the Body will help unpack this. It says, as regards the immediate motivation, Humanae Vitae requires that in order to space birth, there must be a serious reason

Caitlin (14:30)
Yeah.

Jen (14:43)
that stems either from the physical or the psychological condition of the couple or from external circumstances. So let's unpack that. So serious reasons that stem either from the physical. So is there a physical reason to wait to have a child? And that could mean there's a chronic illness that a spouse has that it's not reasonable in that amount of...

structure and what's going on in the family life, what's going on physically, whether it's a chronic illness, maybe the woman is still recovering from childbirth, you know, months later, and is struggling there. It's like, is there a physical reason to wait? And so with both, being able to recognize there may be a physical reason to wait, and that's valid. Is there a psychological reason to wait?

Is there anxiety? Is there depression? Is there a lot of stress that one or both of the spouses is experiencing? Are there marital difficulties happening? And so there is a physical, maybe a physical reason. There could also be a psychological reason that right now in this moment for this month, as we discern, whether we're open to a child or not, that there are reasons here, psychological or physical reasons where

We just really don't think we have the capacity right now to welcome another child into the world, that we're not in the space that we can give them the best of ourselves and our family that is needed. So looking at the serious reasons of, physical, psychological, there's also financial. You know, it's expensive to have a child for the rest of your life. You're making a commitment.

Caitlin (16:30)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jen (16:37)
not just to the birth and all the things that go with that, but for the rest of that child's life. Are there financial reasons? And that has to be discerned. So financial reasons as if we're not saving enough for our 401k, we're not saving enough to buy that beach house that we want. And so again, the serious reasons. So we have to discern that.

Caitlin (16:37)
Yeah.

That's a good point because finance is such a broad category and we have to be really careful about that. And that's where we can fall back on use and begin with prayer. And so if we feel like the number one reason that we're avoiding pregnancy is finances, then pray specifically about finances. And I just want to clarify that it's not.

with a desire that everyone should always be open to children every single month of every single cycle of their marriage, but more so we want to keep that openness to wherever God would lead, whatever that may be. So there may be serious financial reasons to avoid pregnancy, but as you're saying, sometimes through prayer and discernment, you may say, actually that financial challenge that we felt like was so big, God's taking care of it, or it isn't as big as we thought it was.

it would be okay. So sorry to interrupt,

Jen (17:58)
No, no, that's a good point because being able to recognize that there are certain things that it's like, Lord, this might be stretching from us as a family financially. But is that what you're asking? Are you asking that of us? Do I have the capacity to let go of my frivolous ways that I spend money, maybe of lattes, you know, every other day or all of those things that it's like, are you you stretching me? Are you asking me?

Caitlin (18:08)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Jen (18:27)
to surrender that to you, to trust you also. I think in the financial part of it, because you could be in one month really stable financially and open to life and conceive a child and the next month your spouse loses their job. And so you don't know. And so there constantly is this surrender to the Lord in this. But I think there is a discernment there. If you are one of the spouses is out of

Caitlin (18:31)
Yes.

That's right, you don't know.

Jen (18:57)
out of work, then okay, that's a serious reason financially, you know, to to discern whether or not to have a child. What about the effect of the other children in the family? If another child comes? What is what is going on within the lives of the children that you already have? That another child could impact them negatively? I mean, obviously, every child is a gift, but to be able to recognize that they're

Caitlin (19:21)
Mm-hmm.

Jen (19:25)
there will be an impact on the life of your whole family and every member of that family. So to consider that as well. And then ultimately, the last thing is surrendering and trusting all of that and doing that discernment, bringing that back to the Lord of like, this is how we've discerned what's going on in our heart and what we desire and surrendering that, but ultimately Lord, thy will be done. So what are you asking of us?

Caitlin (19:31)
Yeah.

Yes.

Jen (19:55)
and being open to hearing really what the Lord is asking.

Caitlin (20:01)
Thank you so much, Jen, for sharing those tips and direction because this is such a big topic. any sort of guidance is going to be welcomed, I'm sure. So thank you so much for being on our show again.

Jen (20:15)
You're welcome. Thanks for having me, Caitlin.

Caitlin (20:17)
Listeners, realize that making this choice is not always easy. I would say maybe even most of the time it's not easy, but I hope that today's conversation has provided some really helpful discernment tools for you and your spouse. If you liked today's episode or appreciate what we do here at Woven Well, would you click the five stars on any review platform you're on? We would greatly appreciate it. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be Woven Well.