Ep. 184: Learning to Thrive When Unexpectedly Childless, with Elizabeth Tiglau-Guss

Guest, Elizabeth Tiglau-Guss, opens her heart to us in today's episode to share about her fertility journey.  After marrying her husband later in life, they pursued assisted reproductive technology and adoption, but ultimately remained childless.  She shares the grief of her journey and how they've come to the point where they feel they are thriving instead of merely surviving.  We appreciate Elizabeth's honesty and willingness to share on the show! Caitlin had the privilege of being on Elizabeth's podcast, By Chance Avenue: Redefining Life Without Children on 4. 8. 25. 

NOTE: Appropriate for all audiences but does include conversation around infertility, pregnancy loss, and adoption. 

SHOW NOTES:

Caitlin's episode on By Chance Avenue podcast

By Chance Avenue Podcast: Sacred conversations with women who do not have kids by chance, not by choice. 

Link of Hearts Holding space for vulnerability + empathy + becoming

Transcript

Caitlin (00:27)
Welcome back to the Woven Well Podcast. A few months ago, I had the privilege of being a guest on the By Chance Avenue podcast, which provides encouragement and support for women walking the road of childlessness, by chance, not choice. It's hosted by Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss and I asked if she'd come on our show as well to talk a little bit about her own journey and the reality of childlessness, since this is the area and the women that she cares so deeply about.

It's really important to me that as we talk about women's health and fertility, we talk openly and honestly about the fact that not everyone will bear children. We have listeners approaching menopause who never married, those who are unable to conceive because of maybe some permanent physical restrictions, women who are widowed or divorced, or those who have consecrated their lives to God through religious vocations. All of those women, their health still matters.

Their ability to understand their cycles still matters. But being childless by chance has an impact on that journey, and so we want to acknowledge that and talk openly about it. So we're welcoming Elizabeth today to chat about all of this. And Elizabeth, I'm so looking forward to talking with you about this important topic. Welcome to the show.

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (01:44)
Thank you so much. I mean, that was a beautiful introduction. So I appreciate that. Thank you for having me here.

Caitlin (01:50)
Yeah, well why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to be childless by chance.

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (01:53)
Hmm.

Well, okay, where do we start? I'm Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss. I live in Los Angeles right now with my husband and our fur baby, our cat. And we met at a later age in life. And in fact, this is actually my second marriage. And so we didn't meet until I was 37. And obviously the clock was already ticking if we're talking about fertility and all of that. But at the time, I didn't know much about it because for me it was just like, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. So we met 37 and we started dating at 37 and then we actually got married at 39. And even at that point, I knew I was already sort of, oh, I'm going to get off my pills because I've been in birth control pills, the patches and whole works, right? Most of my life, that was the whole case. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. And by the time that I actually got off my patch, I remember

Caitlin (02:48)
Yeah, that's right.

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (02:54)
it was like six months before we got married, like the actual wedding. And so I knew I was preparing my body, but even still at that time, I probably really didn't know in hindsight. I didn't know as much about my body as much as I do now. And I got pregnant naturally when I was about to turn 40 and then I miscarried. And that was sort of the time that kind of I was introduced to the whole idea of infertility.

But I was still in denial even after the miscarriage and I refused to see an infertility doctor as I was advised by my OBGYN. But then I think about a year later, it's like, okay, clock is really ticking. And that was the only time I took it seriously and I entertained the idea even. So fast forward, like the whole really in my forties, it was like the journey of infertility and we have gone through the whole IUI first because I was like, no, I want it to be more, you I didn't want it to be so invasive like IVF. So we started in IUI and then I think about a year later we did IVF. I finally opened up to it because I didn't want to regret not trying everything that I could. And we went through that maybe about four, five years. I can't know exactly now, but roughly about 4-5 years and then didn't work. 

And I knew that it was already low success rate at that age, but we kept going because again, with my faith, I believe that if it's meant to be, it will be, right? So that was my whole thing. And until we got to a point that I really felt like I lost myself and I said, I think I'm done. I'm done with all the treatments. I've become a whole different person. And we took a break and I said, this is it.

But then we also entertain the idea of adoption. My husband first before I got there and shortly after I was like, okay, maybe we'll try to adopt. And long story short, we went through three years of the adoption journey, had two failed adoptions, which was already, you know, more heartbreaking than you can imagine having gone through all the journey of, you know, the IVF and all of that. So it was not until, like probably, that three years after the adoption journey, so that was been a year and a half since then that we decided, I think we're done. This is it. Like it's time to come to peace and come to terms. I was already going to be turning, was around 48 then or something. And it was just like a lot that it's taken over my life. And we had to learn to navigate through the healing of all those years of the failed treatments, if you will, the failed adoptions and embrace childlessness and accept what is, you know.

Caitlin (05:50)
Hmm and you mentioned in there that you had lost yourself and that's when you knew and I think that it can be so hard for couples to discern when the end is. So when are they going to stop pursuing treatments or answers or adoption? You know at what point and that's different for every person but your statement about

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (06:05)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin (06:17)
knowing that you had lost yourself in the process, like you'd become a totally different person, I think is really enlightening because we can become so focused on this one thing that everything else about ourselves and our lives can kind of get pushed to the wayside and get lost in the process. And I really don't believe that that's what God wants for us. know, God wants us to live whole, vibrant, abundant lives.

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (06:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Caitlin (06:46)
And whether or not that includes children is a mystery to some of us. None of us ever know until I guess our lives go on if that's going to be a part of the story. ⁓ So for you all specifically, you tried to conceive naturally and you did. ⁓ You tried the artificial reproductive technologies. You tried adoption. And I think that it's easy to tell ourselves, like,

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (06:56)
Right, right.

Caitlin (07:14)
well, if I had just done this one thing, like if I had done this method or if I had tried that procedure, if I had, et cetera, et cetera, then maybe it would have worked, but that's not always the case. So I'm curious, what encouragement do you have for others who are navigating this journey of pursuing and trying to figure out where that line is for them?

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (07:17)
Right.

I think it helps to really, I do a lot of self work. I do a lot of the self growth and development and being in the age where I was that I feel like, you know, I've gained a lot of wisdom already. It helps to really do a lot of soul searching and in the spirit of, you your message, right? You talk to a lot of the spirituality, right? And your faith. I think for me, it was finding the balance of my faith and really believing or asking, what am I supposed to do next? And trusting your heart, trusting your gut, and really learning what it is, like, what am I going to do next? And I relied a lot on faith, to be honest.

I've learned to also really grow my spirituality throughout these years and I think that's become really such a blessing for me because I don't think I would be as spiritual as I am right now if it weren't for all the struggles that I've had to go through, that I've had to endure, right? So there's a lot of different bounds like that, like really do a lot of soul searching and a lot of times when we're in it, trying to conceive, trying this waiting season. we get so caught up in it that we're not able to really ask ourselves, how do I really feel about this? Why am I really doing this? What is it that I want in this life, right? These all these hard questions that we tend not to ignore because it's like, well isn't this supposed to be the next phase in our life? Like we get married and then we have a family. But then I was really able to ask myself like why? Why is it really? And if my purpose and if my calling is this, does it really align with what I believe is happening? So there's a lot of that.

Caitlin (09:36)
I think that really speaks to the fact that God is leading each one of us in our own lives. so, you know, when you say like, trust your heart and trust your gut, like, I just think about how often God is communicating with us and God is providing for us and offering that comfort and joy. But it may not be in the way that everybody assumes that it is. And that's what I hear you saying in this is, know you assumed that okay well you get married and you have a child and that's what life is but God wants to offer something to each and every human being like wants to have that deep connection with each one of us and so seeking God and like you said developing your faith and really looking for okay well what is my life going to look like it may not be like other people's well guess what nobody's life is like everybody else's you know like

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (10:33)
Exactly, right? Exactly.

Caitlin (10:33)
We all have our own story. And so trusting God with that story, even when it may not look like what your best friend or your sister or anyone else's looks like, is a hard journey. But like you said, your faith was so much more developed because of this. And it's amazing. God will always meet us there in the hard times. We'll always, always provide for us. ⁓ And that's something that we all need for sure. ⁓

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (10:49)
because of this. It's amazing. God will always be a savior. Yeah, 100%.

Caitlin (11:04)
I think about the fact that ⁓ I work with a lot of different couples who are across the spectrum, some who are very much avoiding pregnancy, some who are planning, maybe two years from now, some who are in the depths of trying to conceive, and then of course those who have completed their family, whatever it may look like. And sometimes I feel like there's this perception that children are something that you can just plan.

You like you just say the word and you'll be able to have a positive pregnancy test. Like you just do A, B, and C and it'll all work out. But of course, God invites us to participate in that, but doesn't give us ultimate control over it. And I think ⁓ those who have maybe more children than they planned or those who do not have children when they hoped to, those are the couples who usually know that so deeply.

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (11:31)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caitlin (11:58)
And so I'm curious, do you feel like in your work that God is still faithful for those who may not have children?

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (12:07)
I mean, absolutely. I mean, there's this verse from Philippians. I don't know exactly what it is. I'm not good at remembering all these verses, right? But it's like, I can do all these things through his strength. And I honestly don't think I would have really have had the endurance and the perseverance to overcome all of these years without his strength, right? And

During these times, actually, I didn't know anyone, family or friends who have gone through what I have gone through. So it was actually much harder for me and I've had to learn to navigate it on my own. And I think I've told you in our past conversation that I wish I had known someone like you or you, right? While I was going through all the infertility years, because I would have really needed and wanted that guidance and that educational information. I didn't have all that. But God continued to give me the strength and the wisdom to learn things on my own, to even the simple things of he would lead me to one step like next to the other, provide me a book. Like a friend would suggest a book that would help me, you know, get this message that would be so powerful to me that would sort of move the needle and go to the next step. And I've been able to, even though I don't understand exactly what has happened in my life, I think I've been able to really understand more, really know the true meaning of discernment. And for me, discernment is really accepting his will for me. It's not my will, it's his will, right? Accepting it even without fully understanding and able to surrender. And that's all him. And even the things that I'm doing right now, I have a podcast, I have the By Chance Avenue, and I was able to really turn the struggles into this purpose.

Because for me, it's like, okay, I don't have kids right now. I know I'm not the only one who's going through what I'm going through. How can I help others to do the same? And this is the second part of my life. The first part of my life, just as a backstory and in context is I went through like depression, like mental illness in my 20s. And in the last decade, as I was going through this infertility journey,

I also started raising awareness for mental health because of my story of depression and anxiety. And they started sharing my story to spread the message and raise awareness. And that's all God's doing. So it's almost like, okay, the last 10 years, it's all about that movement that I was leading. And then my life is sort of moving and evolving. And then now the next chapter is, wow, I'm childless after trying for so many years.

now what? And he's like telling me, well, I want you to spread to share your story, because so many women still need to need support in this because we are not like crazy cat ladies, you know, like, we tried because there's so many like, you don't have kids, right? Like, there is such a ⁓ stereotype and as stigma and, but God continued to show up for me in so many little things that it's even hard for me to like really make a list if you know what I mean.

Caitlin (15:32)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I love that, the beauty of God using everything that you're walking through for not only your good in the end, but the good of others too. You know, that mental health, and then you were able to work with people to encourage them and provide awareness. And then now doing that when it comes to childlessness as well. And you're right, there is such a need to talk openly about it and, know,

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (15:54)
All right.

Caitlin (16:00)
I want to join you in that and be a part of it because we talk about, and I say this at beginning, we talk about women's health, we talk about fertility, but every story is different. And yet we're all in it together. And so it's important to acknowledge each one of those. So Elizabeth, if you could go back to your first year of marriage, know, 39 years old, about to start all this journey and tell yourself one thing about family or fertility, what would it be?

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (16:30)
Trust that everything is going to be okay.

And I don't think I would change anything because I wouldn't be the woman I am today if it weren't for all these years in spite of the heartbreak and the disappointments and all the tears, you know, because that's part of my story. That's part of the journey. And God laid out this path for me and I get to trust him and just surrender. So that's it. I just get to keep trusting.

Caitlin (16:42)
There you go.

Hmm, beautifully said.

I love it. I like how you said that too. We get to keep trusting. That's really where we're at the most peace is when we are in that total trust relationship, but we always want to pull against it. Like certainly my idea is better than that, you know? it's so hard. It's so hard. Yeah, it's always hard.

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (17:07)
Yeah.

It's hard, right? Yeah, it's hard. I gotta say. Yeah, it is really hard. So I

don't mean to like, you know, yeah, it sounds easier said than done. But it that's part of the that's part of the evolution, right? Our self growth, because when it gets really hard, and you know, you're putting the effort and then you're surrendering, and then you kind of miss a step, and then you try again. And it's like, okay. you and then you practice your faith every single day and that's where it's at. Yeah.

Caitlin (17:51)
Yeah.

Elizabeth, thanks so much for sharing with us today. I know that listeners are going to appreciate it and I appreciate it. And I'll make sure to have the link to your podcast and our specific episode in the show notes too.

Elizabeth Tiglao-Guss (18:06)
Thank you.

Caitlin (18:08)
Listeners, want to reiterate one thing. Whether or not you receive children, you are deeply loved by God. Your worth, your purpose, your joy is not determined by whether or not you have children, but by God's loving design for you in your life. God will be faithful to you no matter the outcome, and I can promise you that. That is an absolute promise. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.