Ep. 205: Why this IVF Mom Would Never Again Recommend IVF, with Dr. Susan Caldwell

OBGYN and mom-by-IVF, Susan Caldwell, shares the full, complicated story of her decision to pursue IVF in the past and why she'd never do it now. She's honest with us as she details the physical pain and emotional turmoil she faced due to assisted reproductive technology treatments and offers the hope of an alternative--an approach she's dedicated her professional life to sharing with other women and couples desperate to grow their families.

GUEST BIO: Dr. Susan Caldwell is a primary care physician specializing in women's health and a NaProTECHNOLOGY Medical Consultant practicing near New Orleans, Louisiana. Most importantly, she is a proud mama of three amazing adult children.

NOTE: This episode is appropriate for all, but does include discussion of IVF, pregnancy loss, and concerns around assisted reproductive technologies.

OTHER HELPFUL EPISODES:

Ep. 31: The Napro Difference, with Laura Ducote, F-NP, CFCP

Ep. 72: Naprotechnology, with Dr. Pakiz

Ep. 99: Client Story - Anna (Infertility: Update)

Ep. 106: Creighton vs. NaProTechnology - What are they?

Ep. 155: "How I got pregnant when IUIs didn't work" -- Braelyn's story

Ep. 163: Healthy pregnancy in 3 cycles after being told IVF was her only hope, with Loren

Transcript

Caitlin (00:24)
Welcome back to the Wovenwell podcast. I love having guests on to talk about all sorts of natural fertility topics, empowering education, personal stories, but today is going to be a little bit of all three. I was posting on Instagram not too long ago and ⁓ I saw a post by Dr. Susan Caldwell, who's a family medicine physician in Louisiana, and what she had to say really surprised me. She started talking about how she had walked through IVF herself back in the 90s.

And even having gone through it herself, she would never recommend it to any woman. So I hear this a lot from couples who were unsuccessful with IVF, but Dr. Caldwell is a little bit different. She actually was able to have three children through assisted reproductive technology. So I was like, okay, we've got to have her on the show. So Dr. Caldwell is a mother of three young adults and a primary care physician specializing in women's health working in Louisiana.

She received her MD from Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center in New Orleans in 1999 and completed her internal medicine and pediatrics residency in 2005. In 2013, she began her studies at the St. Paul VI Institute for the Study of Human Reproduction to become a certified NaProTechnology medical consultant. Dr. Caldwell, welcome to the show.

Susan Caldwell (01:38)
Hello, Caitlin. Thank you. I love to be here. I love the show and thank you for having me.

Caitlin (01:46)
You are very welcome. We have worked with many clients together over the years. I call them clients, you call them patients. And that's always been a joy to be able to do that. And I was just floored that in all that time, I never knew this part of your story. And not only did I want to hear it for myself, but I knew that there would be a lot of listeners who were curious about it too. Share wherever you want to start, but what led to your IVF journey?

Susan Caldwell (02:14)
Yes, okay, well let's embark. So I'm kind of a type A personality, you know, had to go to med school, had to be the top of the class, you know, kind of like I want it, I work for it, I get it. That's kind of my thing, right? And so I remember, you know, I was married and we had this little timeline and we could say, okay, in between, you know, the fourth year of medical school was when we were going to try to, you know, I'm going to get off the pill at this time. Then we're going to, it was perfect. Like it was the perfect plan. Right? And so I had been on the pill for 10 years previously. And so I thought magically that if I got off the pill, I would be pregnant within a month or two.

Caitlin (02:48)
Wow.

Susan Caldwell (03:01)
Okay, that's for the people listening. That's cray cray. Like that just doesn't, you're not, you can't, that's not gonna happen, right?

Caitlin (03:07)
But it's so common for women to think that because that's kind of what they're led to believe. But we can't blame you. We're not gonna give you a hard time for thinking that.

Susan Caldwell (03:08)
Right, right. Yes. Right, right.

So it's not a light switch that you turn on and off this fertility business, right? So, you know, needless to say, there was no pregnancy. And I remember, you know, going to get this book on how to read the signs of your fertility, right? I had never heard this before in medical school, but so, but I'm going to just pick up a book and like, you know, yeah.

And so sure enough, the signs were not there, know, think his basal body temperature and mucus at the time. And so I had a friend of mine who worked at a fertility clinic and she said, didn't go to the OB, you know, that would have been one, you know, it just went straight to the fertility clinic. Cause she said, I work there and we can help you out. And so I was quickly, so it's a, it's a, it's a business, right? And so you, go in the door and they have a plan for, for you. Okay.

Caitlin (03:37)
Hmm. Yeah. You probably liked that because you love a plan.

Susan Caldwell (04:03)
And I love a plan. So it's like, wow, you're playing my plan. Let's go. In retrospect, it was crazy. But at the time, it sounded great. Very, as they do, very scanty evaluation of what could be going on. My mom had endometriosis, so it was suspected that I would have it because I had seriously painful periods and heavy periods.

Caitlin (04:09)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Susan Caldwell (04:29)
So the fertility doctor did a laparoscopy, found endometriosis. I'm sure he did not excise it. and of course I was in a hurry. I mean, look, this is, anyway. So we went to intrauterine insemination. I believe there were a couple cycles of that. I don't remember exactly how many.

And then the next meeting was like, yeah, what's next? And of course he says, we could do IVF. And so that sounded great to me. Like, let's do it. This sounds so efficient. It's so scientific. It's so smart. And there we went.

Caitlin (05:00)
I don't blame you. I mean, I think a lot of women out there think that and feel that way for sure.

Susan Caldwell (05:03)
Yeah. So there we were. we had the transfer. So we had an supremely successful cycle, right? We had probably 30 embryos ⁓ that were created, something like that. And they had, let's see, we had three.

The top three, all right, they were to transfer back into my uterus during that cycle. And we had five that survived to be frozen. And then everybody else was lost, right? And they transferred them back and told me, okay, you'll take a pregnancy test in about a week and just live your life. And then, and then I, all of a sudden, sometime during that week, developed excruciating abdominal pain and went to the hospital because I was not able to walk. I was vomiting, couldn't, yeah, it was terrible. And I had a complication known as ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome. And it is where the ovaries are so stimulated that these, the fluid, so many sacks of fluid in the ovaries, the follicles,

There's just a continual pumping out of fluid into the abdominal cavity. And so there's not supposed to be fluid in the abdominal cavity, right? And so when there is, there's a lot of discomfort. And for me, there was a lot of pain. So I was basically resuscitated with fluids and I had to stay at the hospital for, I don't remember a day or two. I don't remember, I scared to death. I remember thinking, what did I get myself into? I can't believe I did this. You know, I was just.

This is terrible. This is going to kill me. then the next day I found out that the pregnancy test was positive. And then soon after I found out that I had three babies growing inside of me. Yeah, long story short, at nine weeks, one of the babies died. All three had something called subchorionic hemorrhage, which is
a sack of blood right below where the baby implants. And it basically separates the baby potentially from the placenta if it gets too big. And so they told me that I could lose all three. And at nine weeks, had one and the other two were, it was touch and go for weeks and weeks and weeks. Like I still didn't know if I was gonna have a baby.

And so the entire pregnancy, lost a year of my life and I was on bed rest the entire pregnancy because it was such a high risk pregnancy. Yes, and then we had two babies born at 36 weeks. And there's a little bit more to the story. I don't know how far you want me to go, but yeah, anyway. So and then my daughter was born four years later from frozen embryos.

Caitlin (07:38)
Hmm. Okay, yeah. Well, you know, the question is always for someone who has children, living children that you're raising from the IVF process, you know, how could you not recommend it to other women who are trying to do the same thing that they have that beautiful desire in their hearts to be mothers. And we support that desire, we totally get that and respect it and want to honor it.

And so to hear someone say that it comes across initially as maybe even disregarding their feelings and their experience, but you were there, you walked through it yourself. So what brings you to that point?

Susan Caldwell (08:29)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Well, I'll say that I don't think I would have ever said that if I didn't know there was something better than IVF. So if I had continued in the belief that I needed IVF, then I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I would still be very, very grateful. I would still be, and I am of course grateful. ⁓ Of course, I love my children.

Susan Caldwell (08:58)
But there was an enormous amount of suffering that did not need to happen. And now that I am a doctor treating these women, I can say that the vast majority of women darkening the doorstep of the IVF clinic do not need IVF.

Caitlin (09:07)
Hmm. Yeah, that's I'm not on the medical side. I'm on the fertility education side, but I completely agree with you. There have been so many women that I have worked with over the years, who of course went I struggle calling it a fertility clinic, but that's what they're known as go to the fertility clinic route first have either

experience like yours, they're very painful and even dangerous or they feel unheard, untreated, that sort of thing. And then they go on to have children naturally once they get those root cause treated. So let's talk about that. If there's something better than IVF, what is it and why is it better?

Susan Caldwell (09:55)
Well, I found out about Napro technology at somewhere around, oh gosh, So my oldest, the twins were somewhere around 10 or 11 when I found out about this. I'd heard from two, met two women who had been to the Pope Paul VI Institute where NaproTechnology was founded and they were treated with an enormous amount of dignity and respect and a desire to heal and to really, you know, to heal the root causes. And then I found out that this is, you know, just it's a big deal that I just never heard about. And, you know, there are people like you, fertility care practitioners who work with women and help them understand their signs in their bodies. And then those women are able to take their chart to a doctor and the doctor uses that as a diagnostic tool where treatment, evaluation and treatment can be individualized. And the woman can find the root causes of really what her infertility is, which is just a sign of an underlying problem. It is not the problem. It is the sign of a problem.

And if we're really gonna heal women and we're really gonna care for women, then we need to go a little bit deeper or a lot deeper than just this surfacey, you know, we're gonna hot wire their fertility. Because to be honest, after I was, know, just because I have babies doesn't mean I was healthy.

Caitlin (11:32)
Good point.

Susan Caldwell (11:33)
You know, so after having a very high risk pregnancy and then another four, you know, four years later, another pregnancy, which was not high risk and it was actually a lovely pregnancy. But now I say then to now I've been busy trying to figure out what was wrong with my body.

Caitlin (11:49)
Hmm.

Susan Caldwell (11:50)
because no one had my cramps after the endometriosis surgery, which wasn't proper surgery. My cramps came back worse than ever. So I continue to have severe cramps. Now I'm in menopause, but for those year, 20 plus years, I continue to have terrible periods, terrible cramps. And I've learned some things and how to take care of my body and thank God, and I'm healthier, but that was not the Fertility Institute that did that. That was my own desire and help from other doctors and things like that. And I'm able to help women do that, so that's great.

Caitlin (12:19)
Yeah. It is. And I think you make a really good point. It's helpful to understand the goal of these different approaches and protocols. because an IVF clinic, their goal is to create pregnancies. And a lot of couples, that's what they want when they go in, they want to have a pregnancy created. That is a different approach. NaProtechnology and any other restorative reproductive medicine approach, the goal is the woman's health. So if there are underlying conditions, which if conception is not happening, that there is an underlying condition either on the male side or the female side, you know, then we're going to investigate those and treat those things. I mean, obviously not myself, I'm not on the medical side, but you all are going to treat those things care enough to investigate them. And then the prayer is that they would be able to go on and naturally conceive

Susan Caldwell (13:13)
Mm-hmm.

Caitlin (13:24)
But even if they don't, her quality of life is better. She has been seen, valued, heard, listened to, respected, and hopefully she has a healthier quality of life moving forward, regardless of what her family looks like. I mean, I've been so blessed to walk alongside so many couples who've worked with NAPR technology physicians and were able to naturally conceive

Sometimes after being told, you have a 2 % chance, there is just no way--2 % chance. I've seen a lot of 2 %s.

Susan Caldwell (13:59)
Yes, so have I. So have I. And then just to know that, you know, a lack of progesterone in the luteal phase increases a woman's risk, not only for breast cancer, but all cancer. You know, if we can find someone who's got insulin resistance in Hashimoto's, these women are going to understand how to take care of their bodies, how to eat differently, and they will probably, you know, be able to avoid certain chronic health conditions in their 50s and 60s if they're able to understand so Yeah, it's it's not just about this. We've got to like get a baby right for these people, right? It's it's we really want to understand how her body Needs to be helped, you know how her body needs healing and provide that whenever we can

Caitlin (14:30)
Yeah. Absolutely.

And the desire for a baby is so strong and so real and we respect that. You know, we understand and we want to walk with couples through that desire. We're certainly not saying to set that desire aside. We're saying that there is more than one way to go about it. More than one way to seriously try to conceive a pregnancy. And when you know you have health issues or you suspect there's got to be something going on here. Then there is an option for you to look into that much more deeply with trained medical professionals who also care very deeply and want to help you do that too. And a lot of people don't know that they're never told or they don't investigate it. They don't talk about it at the IVF clinic, but there are a lot of medical risks with IVF. You experienced multiple of them actually. There are risks to the woman, there are risks to the pregnancy, there are risks to the babies, you know, born. And we don't talk a lot about that, but they really are out there. And I think that couples deserve to know that data. They deserve to be able to read those studies and understand the risks that they're taking. So they don't end up in a position like you were where you said, what have I gotten myself into? You know, I didn't know. Well, I appreciate so much you taking the time to be on the show and share some of your story.

Susan Caldwell (15:42)
Yes.

guess.

Caitlin (16:06)
It's not often that we hear someone who had success with IVF still encourage women and couples to look into another alternative. But I really appreciate you sharing your story with us.

Susan Caldwell (16:19)
It's been great to be with you, Caitlin. Thank you.

Caitlin (16:21)
Listeners, I don't know whether you're listening after having gone through IVF yourself like Dr. Caldwell, whether you're discerning whether or not to use assisted reproductive technologies, or you're pursuing more natural restorative medical care already, but I do know that the journey is tough regardless. Dr. Caldwell has one story and you have your own. And I just want to emphasize that as you walk this really hard road that God is walking it with you.

You are not alone in this and He will be there for you, not just to provide you with the next steps and the plan and the guidance, but to offer you comfort and peace and a purpose that goes beyond your pregnancy status. Wherever you are in the journey, there is hope. And when I say that, I don't just mean that you'll have children because none of us can know whether or not you will. No, anyone that promises that to you, they do not know.

But hope in Christ who has promised to carry our burdens with us and provide us with all the sustenance that we truly need. So if you'd like to hear more about alternatives to assisted reproductive technology, we'll make sure to link several episodes in the show notes with you that we've talked about with physicians who specialize in them and maybe even a client story or two so that you can hear their perspective as well. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.