Ep. 217: What Are Bioethics and Why Do We Need Them in Reproductive Technology? with bioethicist, Katelyn Walls Shelton

What does it mean to be human? And how does the answer to that question impact how we view medicine and medical advancements? Bioethicist, Katelyn Walls Shelton, shares an introduction to bioethics in the reproductive health space and gives listeners two questions to ask when considering next steps to take, whether it's about birth control, IVF, or anything in between. We only scratched the surface, so we'll be sure to have her back on soon!

NOTE: This episode is appropriate for all audiences.

GUEST BIO: Katelyn Walls Shelton is a visiting fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and a recipient of the Robert Novak Journalism Award. She is a women's health policy expert who previously worked at the US Department of Health and Human Services. She graduated from Yale Divinity School and Union University and lives near Washington DC with her husband, John, and their four children.

SHOW NOTES:

Substack: Technically Human | Katelyn Walls Shelton

Substack: Fertile Faith | Caitlin Estes

Ministering to Women Includes Physical Health, Christianity Today

Ep. 6: The Pill - Facts about Birth Control

Ep. 29: Should we think theologically about fertility? with Dr. Cameron Jorgenson

Ep. 34: Is Contraception a Faithful Choice for Christians?

Ep. 135: Can I trust Natural Birth Control?

Transcript

Caitlin Estes (00:24)

Welcome back to the Woven Well podcast. For those who are struggling to conceive, we have more options today than ever before in history. And if you've ever walked into an assisted reproductive technology clinic, then you know that there seem to be high tech solutions to every major reproductive problem. I for one, am so grateful to live in the time that I do with all of the medical advancements that we have available to us. But I'm also discerning enough to realize that not every advancement comes without concern. 

So today I've invited another Katelyn in the reproductive health space, Katelyn Walls Shelton, to come chat about what some of the newest reproductive technology means for women and things to consider as you discern your own next steps. Katelyn is a visiting fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and a recipient of the Robert Novak Journalism Award. She is a women's health policy expert who previously worked at the US Department of Health and Human Services. She graduated from Yale Divinity School and Union University and lives near Washington DC with her husband, John, and their four children. Katelyn welcome to the show.

Katelyn Shelton (01:31)

Hi, thanks so much for having me.

Caitlin Estes (01:33)

I'm so glad to have you here and you are coming to us today talking about all things related bioethics, but not everyone may know what that means or what that is. Can you enlighten us a little bit to get us started?

Katelyn Shelton (01:42)

Yeah, so I think of bioethics as being like ethics, right or wrong, as it applies to the human body. And you could broaden that out to all living things. Bio just means living things, broadly speaking. But specifically, I'm interested in ethics of the body. So what does it mean to have human dignity? What does it mean to treat the body with dignity, to treat other people with dignity? And I'm interested in really complex questions about things that are right or wrong as applied to treating the human body. And so the one person that I think of as being like the father of bioethics is Paul Ramsey. He was kind of the founder of modern bioethics and he was a bioethicist and theology professor at Princeton University. And I had the privilege to be part of the Paul Ramsey Bioethics Fellowship at the Center for Bioethics and Culture in San Francisco last year. It was a two-year fellowship and it ended last year. And it was really neat. 

Paul Ramsey has long since passed away, but some of his students are the ones who are leading this fellowship. And at least one of the students was a member of the Bush Bioethics Council. And there's another member of the Bush Bioethics Council who is also helping to lead that fellowship. And so it's a really wonderful fellowship. I would recommend it to anyone who's interested in a more academic treatment of bioethics and what that means. But that was one place that has really helped form my thinking on bioethics in particular.

Caitlin Estes (03:37)

So what makes reproduction then, especially all of the new assisted reproductive technologies, such an important area of exploration for a bioethicist?

Katelyn Shelton (03:48)

Yeah, so in an essay last year for First Things Magazine, Carl Truman said that we exist today in a, quote, battle for the body. He says, he goes on to say, the status of the body as it relates to us as human persons seems to be the issue that lies often unseen behind many of the other more prominent debates of our age.

And I think he's right. I think so much of our hot button political issues today have to do with the human body and the way we think about the human body. Our culture prioritizes choice and quote unquote freedom. And when you apply that to the body, there's no end to the possibilities. So we've wound up creating ourselves in our own self image and I think we're deeply unhappy for it. And now we're seeing Silicon Valley and others investing in what they call reinventing reproduction, mostly by re-engineering it. And so you have things like artificial wombs, gene editing, genetic ranking of embryos based on traits like sex, eye color, even IQ, the creation of embryos using skin cells.

There's some pretty interesting and dystopian sounding things that are happening in research labs across the world, but in the United States primarily, where we have very few laws governing these practices. And to be clear, not all of these things are inherently bad. Some of them are. But it's important that we evaluate these new technologies from an ethical standpoint to be able to help protect the vulnerable.

Caitlin Estes (05:13)

Absolutely. And even just the last thing you said, actually, there's so much that I can talk about with all that you just said. Like it's really wild that we live in a time when these kinds of things are happening. It's like I said in the beginning, I'm grateful for medical advancements, but at what point do we stop calling it medical advancement and start calling it something else? Wow, it's just really kind of crazy to think about some of the things that are happening in the world and in our own country.

What you said about human dignity in the beginning, I think, is so important. Our role, because the listeners of this podcast are mainly Christians of different types, different denominations, different traditions, but mainly faithful believers who are interested in looking at fertility in women's health through the lens of faith. And so why is it important for us as Christians to be asking these questions and thinking seriously about their meaning Even what you've said so far suggests that there is something bigger to consider. We have to think about where the dignity is coming from. So I'll let you jump into that.

Katelyn Shelton (06:43)

Yes. So you can't have a right view of God if you have a skewed view of the human person. Jesus Christ was the second person of the trinity, is the second person of the trinity. He's the God man. And he became a human person and perfected the human body. And one day he will resurrect all of our bodies and restore them to their perfect condition if you believe in him.

I think this is integral to bioethics. think it is so important because it reminds us to consider rightly the human body and its dignity, to consider the right and wrong ways we have for thinking about and treating it. And it's very important for helping us protect the most vulnerable from exploitation, but also it's important for us for how we think about God and our relationship to him. And so if we don't think rightly about ourselves, and about other human beings and our place in the universe in relation to God and the creation that he gave to us to steward, then we're not going to think rightly about him and our relationship with him. And I think that's why it is of the utmost importance, especially in an age that idolizes choice and freedom over the human body. We are not limitless. We are bounded.

God has bound us in this human form and we need to respect that. And I think it's increasingly more difficult to respect that in an age where it's becoming more possible. Our science is making it more possible for us to transcend our bodies. And you hear this kind of language a lot coming from Silicon Valley, the Peter Teals and all the Teal fellows who are creating these brain implants to help us transcend the human body. And to be clear, again, some of those applications of that technology could be incredible for restoring the human body,  But we have to be very careful in how we think about applying these technologies. We're not seeking to transcend the human body.

We seek to restore it. We seek to alleviate suffering, but we're not transcending our bodies. We should be fully human just as Christ was fully human, even as he was fully God.

Caitlin Estes (09:01)

Yeah, and I think to the concept, the foundational concept that our body is good, I think so many of us don't even think about it like that. That your body was created good, but it's touched by the fall, like everything. And we seek as much as we can in this time that we're living here in this already, but not yet of

Katelyn Shelton (09:43)

God's created this good world that's fallen, but he hasn't yet restored it. We seek to alleviate suffering and try to restore things as much as we can in the meantime. But we are waiting on this ultimate transformation that God will one day affect on our bodies and on the world, bringing it into this perfect alignment with himself and his goodness. ⁓

And I'm excited for that day. But in the meantime, I will advocate for good bioethics, good technologies that will help us to alleviate suffering and restore natural function, restore the good natural order of things in the world.

Caitlin Estes (10:23)

Yeah, because I think about the real women who are listening to this episode and they are trying to determine what their next steps are as they're maybe trying to conceive or dealing with some reproductive health issues but especially when we're talking about all the medical options that are out there. I think about fertility and trying to conceive as the big one there. So they're hearing all this and they're trying to say okay what does this mean for me?

How can I make decisions that I know are going to be in line with my faith and support what we believe about what it means to be human and why God created us and how he created us and that is a good thing. And still I need help trying to conceive or that sort of thing. So what are things that...

Christian women could consider when they're pondering these new reproductive technologies and options there.

Katelyn Shelton (11:20)

Yeah, so there are two questions that I think are really important for thinking about: seeking fertility care, but also seeking other types of care in our medical landscape. Because a lot of this applies to medicine more broadly, because it's a question of about what medicine is. What is medicine? Well, I think as a Christian and as someone who studies bioethics, that medicine should seek to restore the natural function of the human body, or where that's not possible, at least help alleviate suffering. And I think that's very applicable to fertility care.

The two questions I would consider when women are pondering new reproductive technologies, they're sitting in their doctor's office and their doctor is giving them all of these options and your pastor doesn't necessarily know about these things. I know of lot of pastors who say they don't feel well equipped to counsel their church members on issues of fertility. And so the main person that's going to be walking with these women who are facing infertility are the doctors in the exam room. And so I would encourage them to ask two questions.

Does this treatment or technology seek to restore the body's natural function or alleviate physical suffering? And if so, you're probably on a good track. The second question I'd consider is, does it seek to bypass or augment the body? And if so, I would maybe avoid or consider it a little bit more deeply. And there's so much there that we could unpack, so many examples that we could give for considering both of those questions in practice. But those are kind of my two, the scaffolding that I use whenever I'm considering things for myself.

Caitlin Estes (13:13)

Very helpful and you know I would say too because this episode is just barely barely barely scratching the surface of these topics. There are other episodes here on the podcast that can be a helpful guide. Maybe you realize the answer to one of those questions is bringing up some concern. There's probably another episode that you can listen to to help walk you through--listeners to help walk you through considering that next thing.

But you also have some great resources. You have a sub stack called Technically Human where you're exploring those moral limits of reproductive technology and diving into what it means to be human. And so I'll make sure to have a link in the show notes so that others can reach out to you there and read what you have there as well.

Katelyn Shelton (14:00)

Thank you so much for having me.

Caitlin Estes (14:02)

Thank you for being on, I really appreciate it and we will definitely have you back. ⁓ As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.