Ep. 225: Making Hard Medical Decisions in the Unknown, with client Hanna

Hanna prefers holistic medicine and homeopathy to modern medical advancements so when her doctor recommended a laparoscopy for possible endometriosis, she wasn't thrilled. This began a journey of determining whether or not this surgery would be right for her specifically and she shares that honest journey wiht us in today's podcast. Whether or not you suspect endometriosis, many of us will face some tough medical calls in the midst of the unknown and it's hard to make a decision when we don't know the future. Yet, we have to make a decision one way or another because even choosing not to act is a choice in and of itself. So how do we choose? What things do we consider? How do we find peace with the next step forward? We discuss these and more in today's episode.

NOTE: This episode is appropriate for all audiences.

SHOW NOTES:

**Pre-order Woven Well: A Christian Woman's Guide for Reproductive Health, Fertility, and Wholeness here: https://www.wovenfertility.com/pre-order-woven-well

Ep. 210: What to Look for in an Endometriosis Surgeon for a "One and Done" Surgery, with Dr. Patrick Yeung

Ep. 211: Bethany's "One & Done" Endo Surgery for RPL with RESTORE Endometriosis (Client Story)

Ep. 116: Explaining Chronic Endometritis

Ep. 10: Endometriosis 101

Transcript

Caitlin Estes (00:25)

Welcome back to the Woven Well podcast. Today I'm chatting with another one of my clients from Woven Natural Fertility Care. And I have the privilege of educating and empowering women so that they can make truly informed decisions about their reproductive health and fertility while honoring their faith. And Hanna, think, is the perfect example of that. People in her life were recommending a laparoscopy or a particular type of abdominal surgery to address reproductive health issues that had really plagued her life, but she wasn't sure if it was really something that she needed or even wanted. So even for those not considering surgery, I think you may resonate with today's conversation because all of us have those moments where we feel overwhelmed or intimidated about what to do next, especially when it comes to medical decisions. What do you do next? Who do you turn to to help make that decision? 

So, hearing from someone who found themselves in that situation, and then was able to find their way through, can be both encouraging and motivating. And I think you'll get that from Hanna's honest story. So Hanna, welcome to the show.

Hanna (01:35)

Thank you for having me. 

Caitlin Estes (01:37)

Help our listeners get to know you a little bit. What keeps you busy in life?

Hanna (01:51)

So I am a foster mom. We haven't completed our adoption yet, we're adoptive parents as well. I feel like I'm busier than when I was working full-time, which is really crazy because I stopped working full-time because we couldn't fit it all in. yYeah. And chasing after a five-year-old. 

Caitlin Estes (02:00)

I love how you're growing your family. Well, as I mentioned, you were trying to decide whether or not to have surgery. So why were others recommending it to you in the first place?

Hanna (02:07)

So I think first person to really kind of tell me plainly they thought that's what I needed was the Napro physician I was working with at the time. And she actually said that to me at my first appointment. She looked at my Creighton chart and I had seen several doctors by this point, and she looked at my chart and she was very clear. said, I think you have endometriosis and PCOS.

And people had thrown things around at me for years. She said, if you are not pregnant in three months, I really think you need to seriously consider the surgery. And don't know if I said anything for a little bit because I had said I would never have surgery. I had only seen really horrible examples, especially in the holistic space, which is kind of where I turned to when for years I wasn't finding answers from doctors and I had only seen people say it made their cycles worse, and I didn't know at the time that they had not had a restorative or an excision surgery because I had no idea what the difference was. So anyway, people were pushing me towards that because also I had a lot of obstacles. So I now know I have MTHFR gene mutation, PCOS, and endometriosis. So there were a lot of roadblocks to not only fertility, but healing. And I think this physician was trying to really seriously get me to consider removing some of those roadblocks that out of mine, that is the one that you just, like, you can make lifestyle changes to absolutely help, but you cannot really reverse or remove it without surgery.

Caitlin Estes (03:34)

Yeah. And it's really amazing to me that she could look at your chart and that quickly, be like, okay, I'm already seeing the things that I need to see. I already know it's probably this. And I'm sure she went on to actually test for that and assure, you know, that you really do have those things. But that's just the amazing thing about a Creighton chart is it can provide so much information to those physicians who are trained in interpreting it. So you already mentioned that you appreciate a little bit more of a natural or more holistic approach to medicine, life in general. I think that's fantastic. So I know that making the decision to pursue a surgery was a really tough one. Tell us a little bit about what was going through your mind that made you initially uncertain about it. What were some of the things that were running through your mind?

Hanna (04:43)

I don't think I'd ever heard a single positive example. I am very holistic. I am a homeopathy, raw beef liver, ground in the morning, kind of, So anything involving any type of anesthesia, I mean, I was not about to have it.

I'd never had anesthesia before. And so also just the thought of all of that medication entering my body and just not having control over it was really concerning. And because fertility is so closely tied with our faith, because I was really struggling with my body and fertility, I was also really struggling spiritually.

For me to say like, okay, God, this is my body and like my spirit and my mind are all in your hands. And like this surgeon's hands when I am under for the first time was really hard for me. So a lot of these things were running through my mind. And then also,

just what could go wrong. And I tried so many things. I was like, this is a really expensive gamble. This is more than like a $10 little dram of homeopathy. This is a thousands of dollars investment and what if this doesn't work too? So yeah, there were a lot of things. I was talking to my husband about it. We were kind of reflecting together. I was also talking to people in my circle. And one of the things that really started to change my mind was someone who was very close to me was also having endometriosis and was also being treated with NaPro technology and was also going to have surgery.

Caitlin Estes (06:15)

That makes such a difference to have a friend, to have somebody else to be able to see that example, because like you talked about, you'd only seen negative examples. So to have somebody else asking those same questions and looking into the same resources. And I really appreciate you being honest about the things that were going on in your mind because they really hit every aspect of the concern. There's a financial concern, there's a, almost like a philosophical concern. You you've always been very holistic and natural and this is seems like the opposite of that. There's a spiritual concern. There's a relational concern. There's a fear of what if this doesn't make a difference? What if I don't really need this? What if I go through it and it doesn't help me? So you just hinted at what started to change my mind was so let's talk about that a little bit because you did end up having the surgery. So what first led you to start reconsidering whether it really could be the right decision for you?

Hanna (07:17)

Yeah, it wasn't the doctor. was my husband. Because I had been told all kinds of things, and even though I could tell that this doctor was different. I mean, she could look at me and see things that for years people had said like, you might have this and this could work. And you could try birth control.

It was my husband that we were actually, this is really cheesy, we were sitting and talking about what we wanted our year to look like goals that we had for the year. And he said something to the effect of, think that you really need to reconsider, or I think maybe you should have surgery this year. I think you should not be living in pain like this, even if we never conceive a child. And he was like, you should just not be living like this. And he said them in his own words. That wasn't exactly how it went, but yeah. And so I mean, in the moment, I think I had this funny look on my face because I think the Lord started changing my heart. I think he was already changing my heart, but in the moment, I just remember thinking, okay.

Hanna (08:24)

And I think four months later I had surgery. Yeah.

Caitlin Estes (08:28)

I think it's so beautiful that your husband's goal for the year was for you to feel better. You know, when you think of it like that, I mean, he was saying, originally you were talking about all the roadblocks to being able to conceive a pregnancy. And that is so important. We want to address those. But he was thinking about you and your quality of life and how much he loves you and what he wanted for you.

And he's saying, it's really not about whether or not you all conceive children. It's really about your quality of life and what you deserve to have.

Hanna (09:03)

It was such a gift also, because then so many of the reservations I had what if it doesn't work? Well, if there's no standard of like, well then we, if it works, then we should conceive within a year or whatever. All of these standards, it kind of just took the pressure off for him to say like, the goal is for you to heal or to feel better. I think he just said like, you shouldn't be in this much pain. So it really, I didn't even realize that at the time, but he removed tons of roadblocks to the decision. Then it was about who do I feel comfortable working with? What does our schedule look like? Yeah.

Caitlin Estes (09:39)

And then you didn't feel like the weight of the decision was on your shoulders alone. Because sometimes it feels like, you know, you're talking about the financial aspect. Well, I don't want to make the decision and commit all of our money to this thing. But when you know that you're both on the same page and your husband's the one saying, I think we should do this, then there's this underlying, almost hidden guilt that's there like, I'm doing this for me and do I really need to do this? And then that's just gone.

Hanna (10:12)

Absolutely. There's I think, women, especially and obviously fertility is two sided and health and healing and marriage all of it is actually three because God but think we carry so much of the guilt because so much of our money is going to our supplements and like our health and our well-being and I know at least I have carried so much guilt of like, well, we spent a couple hundred dollars on that and it did not work. And we got another opinion and it was the same thing. And so I think we carry a lot of guilt and he has just always; I think also it's really good to talk about that because so often we carry it and then we talk about it and the people who love us are not thinking that. Yeah. Yeah.

Caitlin Estes (10:45)

Yes, exactly. You're absolutely right. Well, I'm so glad that he said that to you was so open and honest with you and allowed you to feel free in that moment. And like you said, then it was about who do I feel most comfortable working with? What's your schedule look like? So talk with us about how you found that surgeon and how you knew they were right for you.

Hanna (11:07)

Yeah. So my NaPro physician I was working with at the time said, I'll give you a few names. And then I had also, I've listened to the Woven Well podcast for a long time. And so I also had several names on the list of really fantastic people who had been interviewed before. So she really, my doctor knew that I was really hesitant about medication and, frankly, like Western medicine in general. And so she really, she didn't push me at all because she knew I wanted to do my own research. But she said, I really think that you will like Dr. Yeung's approach because his entire approach is restorative. And that was when my ears perked up. said, restore, how can surgery, how is surgery restorative? And I just started calling clinics and asked about their wait list, I was talking about insurance, because there were a lot of good options. And I really had my heart set on someone else from what I had read and been told. And when she kind of nudged me towards Dr. Yeung, and I finally got on his website and looked at just what he says about endometriosis and I was pretty sold. And then learning that it was personal for him and his family and it was part of their experience, I think that is really, that's really special and unique. And really changes how people treat you, I think. I have told multiple people, any of my friends that are struggling, I'm like, listen, first person to give me the utmost respect, that was a trained professional, obviously. There have been lots of practitioners that have walked alongside me and have been so caring, but I said the first physician to give me the utmost respect was a male surgeon. I think that says a lot. He was, I mean, they would ask before they did things and I was just so befuddled. I was like, why are you asking before you do that? And it was because they just had the utmost respect for their patients. Like, do you mind if we go ahead? And I was like, oh, I already signed off on it, no worries. They were like, okay, but is it okay if I go ahead and start that? And I just was floored. My husband was there with me and he was like reading everything. have case studies out in the lobby of research that he's done and my husband is reading through it as we're in the waiting area. I mean, is just a wildly different experience. I mean, it was great. It was the most respect I've ever been given. It was the most comfortable.

And it's not exactly a comfortable process, but there's invasive things that happen. it was, I just was, I was not dismissed at all. I had some real, I had some reservations obviously. And I was pretty upfront about that. I said, I'm really nervous about anesthesia. I have a gene mutation and it makes it difficult to clear anesthesia. And he said, I will not start surgery till you sign off on it.

And he was like, you can talk to the anesthesiologist. I can have that arranged, all the things. I just had never been so seen and heard before. It was incredible.

Caitlin Estes (14:49)

That's beautiful. It's just a reminder that not all the surgeons are the same. Not all physicians are the same. And so I will so often tell clients who ask my opinion on different surgeons and where to go. And is it really worth finding one who's restoratively trained? Yeah, the answer is yes. That's going to be my answer every single time. It's going to be worth it to go with someone who really has this extra level of training. And I'm so glad that your experience was the way that you, that it was. So you're glad you did it.

Hanna (15:28)

Yeah. I cannot believe I'm saying this. I was sad it was over. They have been great about following up with me, but I was like, I’m never gonna get to go back to that clinic. Which is weird for me. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of doctor's offices anymore. And I was sad it was over.

Caitlin Estes (15:31)

That really says something about the quality of the care honestly it really does. So obviously not everyone is going to be in this predicament of trying to decide if they want to have a reproductive surgery but so many women face decisions like this one that doesn't necessarily feel black and white. So from your experience what advice or maybe encouragement would you offer to somebody who you feel like is in similar shoes to you?

Hanna (15:50)

Do I wish that I had had this surgery when I was 16 years old and hoping that I didn't have a cycle when I was supposed to be running cross-country? Of course I do. I of course wish that. I think the other thing is I didn't. And I think we carry so, especially when we're wanting to conceive, we carry so much guilt of well, what if I had? And I think if you're hesitant, that is okay because God is the author of our stories and he holds it in his hands. So if it hasn't happened yet, that's okay. Maybe it just is not supposed to happen until the next chapter. So, and if you are wanting to, then I think that maybe you just need to pray for him give you the motivation to go do it, to so I just think my encouragement is.

I know that sounds silly, everyone's saying that, but seek him and see where he has you. Maybe there are obstacles right now and maybe you just need to pray for the courage to do it.

Caitlin Estes (17:13)

I actually think that's fantastic advice because what you're saying is Be authentic to who God made you to be if you are hesitant about this if you live in a particular way, which gives you pause or concerns? Those are not bad things. You should not have to shut off who you are as a person in order to pursue treatment In fact, that's one of the whole points of restorative reproductive medicine is we want to honor the person, mind, body, and spirit. And so just like you came into his office and said, here are my real concerns about anesthesia. And he said, I hear those, here are things that we can do and I'm gonna get the anesthesiologist in here so you can talk with them. Like that's what your care response should be.

Honoring you exactly where you are and you should not have to shut down who you are in order to be able to pursue treatment. So thank you for saying that to our listeners and thank you for being on the show.

Hanna (18:11)

Yes, thanks for having me.

Caitlin Estes (18:15)

Listeners, wherever you are in your own journey, I want to encourage you that there are people and resources and options out there that can help you make the best decision for you specifically. Now, Hannah chose to have surgery and she found the best doctor for her that made the experience worth it. But there are some other medical choices that she may still decline. Medicine, especially women's health, should not be a one size fits all situation. It should be unique and personalized to you. So how can you get that kind of care? This is the kind of thing that I've worked to provide for the women we work with at Woven and now it's available to everyone in my upcoming book Woven Well, A Christian Woman's Guide to Reproductive Health, Fertility, and Wholeness. The book gives you practical guidance and clarifying filters that help you determine the type of care you desire and empower you to pursue the quality of dignified care you deserve.

It's available for pre-order. If you do pre-order it before it comes out on July 7th, you'll receive an extra guide with information to help you get started right now, plus some more fun goodies and bonuses. So check the link in the show notes for ways to get it. As always, thanks for listening as we continue to explore together what it means to be woven well.