Spada X 48Hours: Producing for 48Hours Success

Join Vista Foundation 48Hours alumni producers Sara Chen (Permanently Confused, 2025 Regional Winner), Finn O'Connor (Couch Kumara, 2024 Regional Winner), and Emily Ardern (Videoshop, 2025 Regional Winner) as they share their tips and tricks to help producers prep their team for success in this year's competition and reflect on the competition's impact on their professional producing practice and trajectory.

Hosted by Thomas Coppell, this webinar is a collaboration between Spada (Screen Producers NZ) and Vista Foundation 48Hours.

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Transcript

0:02

Kia ora everyone. My name is Thomas Coppell. My pronouns are they them. I'm a producer based. in Te-Whanganui-a-tara Wellington, recently just produced, feature film Big Girls Don't Cry, which is coming out in NZIFF, it's the opening night film. This is my fourth year, and I'm also the Vista Foundation, 48 hours, Wellington regional manager and have been since 2021. So I cross the bridge of both the Spada and the Vista Foundation 48 hours. But I would like to welcome our amazing, panelists that we are joined by. So we have, three storiedcompetitors of the competition who are, hosting this panel with us. We've got Finn O'Connor, who's from the legendary team Couch Kumara Finn started as a high schooler, back in. How long ago Finn? Was 20, 2010. 2010. And actually won the competition not long after that for the first time. inWellington, you're a multi-time Wellington regional winner, correct? and and is just retired. But Finn has also established a really amazing, business out of the Couch Kumara brand. You will have seen his ads for Hnry right. And other other sorry. Apologies everyone, for all those ads. And then and then we have Sara Chen, who was one of the fellow, the co-producer alongside Hweiling Ow the team Permanently Permanently Confused which won Auckland's the Auckland regional finals last year. And Sara is, a stunning emerging producer and in her own right, as as Emily Ardern, who was the, Wellington regional winner, with Video Shop last year and also won the emerging, Female Filmmaker Awards, the WIFT Award last year. So these are some very storied competitors. And we're very lucky to have you all. Thank you for taking this time. So let's just crack into the Q&A. What, for each of you, what does a producer, do? in 48 hours? What's the role of a producer with 48 hours? I think someone who's actually, like, typically producers to start this one. Yeah. Go ahead. Emily. Okay. I think, I mean, that's it's an unusual competition for a producer because we live largely in pre-production, and then you've got this competition that's smashed into this tiny time period. So I would say, it's making sure everyone knows where they're going to be and when. Like you, I often find a meshing into the kind of first day day role as well. When you've got a smaller team, but there is always kind of good advice, like scouting locations in advance and getting your crew together in advance. For me I like, defining the team roles as well in advance. You can kind of go in knowing what had set your brainstorming the ideas for with a, you know, each person's kind of thinking about their department. So, yeah, if you're someone who likes management of of of people and departments and overseeing staff and you've got a logistical brain, then producing is is a good spot for you. Yeah. What does it look like for you, Sara? Yeah. I mean, Emily made really great points. I think one of them is just making sure people stay safe. Because you know what? It is just so hectic like that. A lot of the things that you scaffold people for kind of get missed because it's so rapid. So just making sure that people are taking care of themselves, actually, like a lot of people stop drinking water, eating, you know, safety in terms of like emotional safety and stuff. Make sure you're not asking too much of people because everyone really wants to get this thing done. But you want to just make sure that it's like everyone's going to walk away happy that they did it. Everyone's roles do bleed over during 48. Like you'll end up doing some PA roles, you'll end up gaffing or something when there's not enough people around. So just being open to doing that sort of stuff. Yeah. And and any kind of like pro tips that you kind of already talk to like the, the importance of prep but could, could maybe one of you talk us through your kind of what prep like pre 48 kind of tends to look like for you. Maybe you Finn We talk to that. Yeah. Yeah I mean so it's it's like Sara was saying getting the crew getting crew together prior. Sorry. And, that's pretty important. Like, for me, there's a lot of bleed, a lot of bleed over in the roles. So I'm often directing and producing and shooting. Sorry, she's really insistent. And so, I'm just sort of making sure that my usual team and if not my usual team then extras that want to jump in and are free and available on the weekend. We do some pretty rigorous, like, equipment testing. We make sure that we sort of our loadout is ready to go because we may not know what we're going to be filming on or filming with, but we just need to make sure that whatever we decide to do, it's ready and the batteries charged, and we're not going to be like scrambling on the morning of the shoot. And other than that, like, we don't tend to do like a whole lot of, location scouting or there's a lot of prep work in terms of trying to find the, props and costume and locations and stuff. Prior, I think we we we write, let that be dictated by the story on the day, on the Friday and then just sort of roll with it. And sometimes and in the past, when we have chosen a location prior, it's, it's ended up almost to our detriment because it means we have to sort of like pigeonhole what our story is into that place. So we try to keep that pretty open. It's often like people's houses. And, as honestly, I'd say we've probably some, most of them just at a house, some of them out in Makita, like some outdoor ones, but like, it's, it's pretty unreliable with long term weather. So we like we tend to do like these days trying to be like an entire shoot outdoors if we can avoid it. Yeah. Yeah, that's basically the prep work we do. It's like just making sure everyone’s keen Yeah. And because you just spoke to that kind of pre location scouting, that your, your team has done in the past. But also a lot of teams tend to do and as well. But but also with that being like 7 p.m. you suddenly get, you know, your genre, your elements and everything kind of changes. What, what is it like from that moment for you kind of organizing your teams? Like what? Do you wanna talk me through kind of the shape of the shoot. weekend just kind of from an an organizational point of view for each of you. Your mics on finn so you can start You can start. I'll start. Sure. Yeah, yeah. So we normally like we would all, you know, option leave it there. We would all together, the whole team, we usually gather on the Friday. Regardless of where the people are writing or operating camera or whatever. I like to get everyone in the room for the announcement for, like, the genre and things. Snacks and drinks, maybe just sort of set the scene a little bit. And then it's kind of for us, it's quite an organic, move into the on set development. Like, we'll often have a reasonably large group, people throwing out ideas and things. And then once we once we kind of get to a point where we're happy with a broad concept, we're moving into the scripting. And then at that point, we usually trim the numbers down a little, but people will, either go like go home or pulled out, kind of just take a bit of a backseat and just hang out and play an Xbox or something. But, I think we've been doing it so long that people kind of fall into the roles that familiar with. And if I ask someone like, can you help do this they’ll usually be up for it, but we don't have a we usually like you not have a problem with like people's tipping on other people's toes, and getting upset that like, someone's doing something they wanted to do. We're pretty collaborative in that way. We'll write until we try to write until, like on the Friday, we want to try and get a pretty solid idea and script and, like idea of locations and that something on the Friday, if we can and then basically shooting is usually from like Saturday morning. I'm not sure how much detail you want me to go into here. Yeah, yeah. Walk me through a weekend. Yeah, sure. So then I'll try to get a good night's sleep on the Friday. Like, I think the idea of running the whole forty eight hours, like, without sleep, is massively overrated. You're way more productive if you get, like, a couple of nights and six hours of sleep, like, that's. You are much better off. So you get up pretty early. We would normally shoot, we try not to. We try to avoid shooting, like, well into the evening. We want to try and direct by, like early evening, late afternoon, early evening so that we can then get offline, like, you know, get a rough cut together before I go to sleep on a Saturday night, or Sunday morning, because there's no worse feeling than going to bed on that Saturday night slash timeline, not having an idea of where the what you shot will work. Like, I find that's, just you just don't sleep at night if you think like, oh, I don't know if that sequence is going to fit together or if it's going to flow or if it's going to feel right. So I find it hugely helpful to have a basic cut down before I go to bed. So like, you're like, yep, we will need you to pick up so that that and that. Otherwise structurally sound. Or in the case of 2019, we shot a whole lot of stuff. And then, on the Saturday night, I put it all together and it was just as not working. So about six in the morning, I texted around and said, look, we're changing. If you trust me, we're changing basically everything. Which turned out to be a good move, I think. And everyone understood once I explained, like, my idea and things. So, that's just like the way I do it. I like to not leave the Sunday as, like a primary shoot day like that is that is the day to do any essential pick ups. But that's also like a post that is your only your sound mix any adr you need or mixing sound effects like anything like that should be on Sunday, I think. And we try to get it like a pretty close to finish done by like 5 p.m.. Like if we can look at it at 5 p.m. and go, yeah, heck, we'd be happy to submit that we're on the right track. And then we use the last two hours just, like really tight, some stuff up and, I mean, in some cases we just submit it like we think, not we, I think anymore might just, over cook it. And yeah, we've had one late submission 2012. Otherwise we've had them all in on time. So, yeah. I'd say it's, it's a pretty good method. Pretty good, formula for us. Yeah. Any, any kind of, commonalities or differences with with the two of you here. What's it kind of looking like? What's it look like for you for the last couple of years? Yeah. It's interesting to hear what everyone preps and what they leave to chance. I think we usually have sussed, like, one location at least, just to know that we've got a place. And, yes, weather is a huge thing. You don't want to be like, oh, yeah, everything's going to be in a park. And then obviously it's like raining. And gear. Gear is definitely a good one to just figure out, what you have at least the day before, we leave a lot to chance, because whaling and I both like that sense of chaos, of, like, rushing and getting things, sorted on the day. So last year, I think we got what genre do we get? Action adventure or something? And so we ended up having to last minute, get a stunty on board, Red Forester, who's amazing. And I'd never met him before, so like, that sort of stuff was really fun for us to have to do last minute. Yeah. So we usually have the team come over, anyone who's wants to come and yeah, we have food there and everything, but some people, might be coming from work and just need a night's rest, and we're, you know, open with that. Once we get the genre and we get everyone to contribute to the story. Same thing. Once you guys have locked down the story, the writers, keep going and doing that part. Meanwhile, you're just figuring out the logistics of what the shoot day is going to look like the next day. I think historically, historically is that I've done it for like two years, but, the last two years, we shot everything on one day. So we finished shooting on Saturday, and we would also have I have our editor on location, so then we would be dropping, to them. So they would be editing while we were shooting. And that would kind of be the way that would be checking if anything looked right. Sunday is mostly just a day of editing. Yeah. We haven't really shot on Sunday ever. Yeah. So it's interesting. It's great. You kind of like drawing to the, like, leaning into the chaos of 48 and like, making, like, spontaneously within like six hours. You need a stunt, which because people would think that's not a normal thing for a producer and a production, but actually, that is exactly what a producer in a normal production will do. Like, my experience on my big feature film was that we were because, you know, you have so many. You're creating like a microcosm of society. You have so many things that always go wrong, and that's incredibly normal. And so learning as a producer, the muscle of like of spontaneously figuring stuff out at last minute and calling those, clinics and getting them online, is like a good, muscle training, I think, you just remind me of that serous like. Greg. Bring it up. Emily, what about you? Is there. Oh. Oh, no, I just I just remembered one thing, which was that, I forget this every year, so I'm glad that we're talking about this now, that you probably want to rope in, like, a friend or two. You're going to inevitably cold to be like, crap. Can you please get me this, like, weird dress from dress mod or something? Because we need this exact prop and no one can get it. Because I have always ended up roping up roping and like one random non film friend to run an errand. So I think that just will happen on the weekend. Yeah, yeah. And Emily, what about you? Was there anything that you kind of is there anything different about the structure that you've kind of gone with or. I think we've found quite a similar pattern, actually, all three of us, but especially fun as you were talking, I was like, oh, that's literally what we do. Which is like an inevitable Friday hangout. We all, like, unify in one space. We eat a lot of food. We, like, hang out before the announcement starts so you can get the kind of like just the catch up, you know, out of the way before the time kind of thing. And then we kind of like, brainstorm, like popcorn, do ideas and stuff for a bit, and then like Skeleton Crew sit down for like the script writing, which, like in the past, we've had kind of like director and dop slash writer together and I might shadow and just like, be there to like, bounce off the, the, like the logistics of those ideas like, okay, so if you're thinking of this, here's where we could put it. I agree with what you guys were saying about not being too stuck on location because you can pigeonhole yourself into like, well, no, we need to make something for this. Just kind of like add to the 48 hour idea of like doing it all spontaneously. So we try to have a list of resources more than planned locations of like, okay, hypothetically, we could shoot, you know, at grandma's house and at my brother's backyard and all that kind of stuff. So that when the story's coming together, I can be looking at that list of people knowing who I have to, like, quietly text and be like, hey, so you know how we said that we might want to use that? Like, you know, classic ask. And I also definitely agree with the like, the sleep thing. I know there are some teams that are like 48 hours awake. I kind of did that the first time I entered in uni. I think that's, lovely. Can canon experience if you feel like it. I don't think it does make the best films personally. And I think, like, if you have it in your team, you can even, like roster. Who is doing that? Like, the editor might be working more from like, they may not sleep as much on that Saturday night. So like make sure they're getting a full night Friday night sleep kind of thing if you can. Depending on how your team is structured, we try to do it that way. So everyone gets some sleep on both days, but at least you're getting like one big, full sleep. And then if you have to have a little one, depending on your departments, we kind of do it like that. So no one's like dead by the end of it. And I agree with like prioritize Saturday for filming and Sunday for us is just like pick ups if we have to. And if so, in the morning, like by lunchtime, like you, we cannot be doing any of that. Which we've had a mix of. We've also, as Thomas now, you were saying, oh, we've never had them in late except for this one time. We got it in like, like to the minute last year. So be ready. So like your, your tick to just, like, give out randomly, you know, every now and again the, the computer you're editing on, which has been fine for six years is like having a, having a spat at the time. So I agree with like give yourself a fake deadline hours before because inevitably like you'll need that time. I have to like lie to myself and pretend the competition like slowly ends like two hours before it does. That usually. And you called me Emily. Like what? What time did you call me last year? Oh, I don't, I don't remember, but it was within, like, I was like half an hour beforehand and and you were like, oh was it. No, it. Was like even. Later, it was like 650. It was like 650. I got a call from Emily, panicked, going, oh, computer just crashed. What do we do? And I was like, just really just keep going. Get it? Five tricks. And then Emily called me at like 655, and I was too busy answering someone else. The next call. And then I called her back and she was like, we. Got it in. Check, so I gotta check some. Yeah. Yeah. But there's some alarm. Yeah, yeah. So that's a testament to, like, continually stress testing your equipment and having, like, a good, pipeline and also things to avoid to look out for. You kind of have all talked about trying to be finished, you know, when you're shooting on the, on the Saturday, but is there any other kind of major red flags that you can think of that you think people should kind of be conscious of, particularly as a producer, when you've got a director running super late, maybe, then from your wisdom from many years. I was talking to, I was talking to Josh, my mate Josh, who's been in the caps camera team quite a lot. He does my dogs now. He's going to be the director producer this year. As I say, bring me up asking for the winter bus. I did say, like, try your best to delegate the jobs that don't require too much brainpower to somebody else. Like if it is running an errand or getting snacks or building. Not that not a building. Like getting props and stuff doesn't require brainpower. It's just like not the it's not the maybe the best use of the time of the I mean, that is more of a director thing, I don't know. Yeah. Like I think if I, whenever I'm doing directing and like directing, dipping and producing, that's like you got to be quite careful about how you get pregnant time and like, what tasks you should just be like, while I want to do this because it's like a nice break, it's also like a massive waste time, and someone else could quite happily do it and quite easily, and it might actually be a strength as well. Like, I didn't find the strength of people on the team and being like, oh, you may be the, the gaffer, but you're actually like, really good at this other thing. Could you jump in and help us do that? The red flags don't, I don't know. I would say. In the post process, we've had really good luck with like, people editing concurrently. So like if you're using like to years resolve, you can you can be doing color grading and editing at the same time or color grading and sound mixing on the same project, which is super helpful. So doing that stuff instead of waiting to see, having it as like a linear pipeline we like, you know, the color grading is waiting for you to get the edit done. If you can do that stuff in parallel. Because sometimes, like if you're waiting for a sound mix, but you've had to deliver like a locked in to this, out to the sound engineer, and then you're waiting for the sound to come back, you're like, oh, really? Twiddling your thumbs in that time, like panicked. So having, like having control of every aspect of the post in like one room, I would say like having your having your sound in a certain way. And if it's a different person, like next to you, someone who's just like physically next to you, you can talk to and like not having that be in a different building, you know, kilometers away because that's just like you're introducing so many different file points. So yeah, I'm not sure if that's like a red flag, but I'd say like just trying to keep try to reduce the number of, of file points. Yeah. Yeah. Which is really good. Producing. And actually you're talking like when you're talking to like the juggle that a lot of because a lot of times, and 48 hours tend to be, director, producer, DOP, you know, every, every man. But I guess that kind of also speaks to the benefit of producers, which are like the caretakers of the set and the caretakers of the filmmaker, and the and the idealist of terms which we need on all sorts of productions. And, yeah, the role that they, I know that they quite commonly play is the, the hustlers on the other side, while the director is dealing with the creative problems or managing the actors, the producers thinking ahead and providing that, Yeah. If you're doing all three by yourself, you can definitely feel like very burnt out, but important, like, yeah, you can just be like, you have one kind of one too many hats into shorter space of time. Like if you had a week or two, you could probably nicely divvy up days where you play each role. But because it's 48, you're like every ten minutes you're just switching role, which is, yeah, it's doable. Whether it's like the optimal way to do it. I mean, that's up to the but yeah. Yeah. Well, and that kind of speaks to like the opportunity with 48. Like for, for me I, I scouted my first ever short film team that I applied for free shorts funding with out of 48. And that has consistently been a space where, as a young producer, I sought out new, fresh voices, and quite successful. And I know a lot of people have paved that pathways, via that way. Can you kind of talk to the way in which you've, each of you, have found, relationships or tested relationships through 48? Or elsewhere? I think. Sara. Sara's story. Yeah. Well, but I actually was interested in the previous question in terms of do you guys have, like, a deadline in your brain that you work to for getting the story, or at least like the skeleton of the story by on night one? We have changed the script well into the Saturday for sure. Like the concept, I think the like the wider concept. Like sometimes we won't have an ending, which is just a horrible place to be in. Like like, oh, what a great first to act. But we try, I mean, and the films that have worked the best, we've had the whole concept on the Friday night, like we've gone to bed. It's the same thing, like going to bed on Saturday night with, you know, like a sort of, eastern edit that works. You feel so much better going to bed on the set or not. Just like you feel so much better going to bed on the Friday night if you go into it, going to sleep with like an idea that you feel really good about. Like, I just think leaving a half baked does it to us. It's kind of an uncomfortable feeling to know. Yeah, we have kind of set like a mini roll of like, we need to be out of here by midnight. Like we cannot be changing the concept of the whole film again. You know what I mean? Like, you need to just stay and we're just going to stick with it. I don't think those stories maybe stopping and the people writing it's heads then, but at least we're making sure that people are, like, getting home and like, doing some sort of one down, because otherwise it's easy to just be like another 30 minutes, another hour and, you know, and then it's Saturday. So that's kind of we have that little like we want to have usually a fleshed out, fleshed out, developed idea around ten. And then like those extra two hours for fleshing it out if you get it done earlier than that, that's great. But yeah. Yeah, I think 48 provides a structure to like, make instinctual decisions. So you're like and that that means that, because you're forced because of time and all the pressures to, like, just decide a thing and consistently golden nuggets that produced, you know, where people could languish on ideas that then, like you were talking about then like you don't want to overcook anything. And so and sometimes I would say that particularly with short film, that's a great way of, approaching things. The so just just back on that question. So, yeah. Your Ted talk about how you've used 48 as a tool to test and build relationships. It's a I think this this one's a two parter. So one is like the people that you actually get on your team, actually, I guess read the stunt guy as a good example because last year we didn't think we needed stunts. And so we got him last minute and he was keen to do us a favor. And then we ended up really loving working with him. And then if we had stunts in the future, we knew that we had this person that we wanted to go back to. And on a more like above the line level, it's a good way to test out a director, producer, director, DOP. That's not the line. But yes, relationships is it's like speed dating is, what I was calling it. And then, yes, I definitely really enjoy going to see the 48 that come out that year. And I do note down the people that I want to work with. And I think I have talked to a couple people off to it before. So it's it's good like talent scouting. Because you've worked with parent confuse. You have both y Leong how you produced the V4 and porn. Who you produced turtle tent. So yeah. How do you find it's like a is there any like kind of link with, with those kind of more long term projects and what you kind of get to do with 48 is it is it more like a play or. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like a breather actually, which is funny, but it's, it's going back to the guerrilla roots of filmmaking when it's actually less hierarchical, I suppose. And the goal is just to make something. So it kind of to me, I ended up loving 48 because it feels like it's going back to the joys of just making. And. It's rediscovering that feeling. I guess with whaling and porn, at least for me. What about you, Emily? Yeah. No, it's definitely been a great thing. I remember crash testing my even. Just like my my, grad film and uni by working with some of those people. And, like, you really do get an idea under, the pressure, like how those relationships work. And then the same thing with, with Team Video Shop that we've had for the past few years that we were all kind of, working alongside each other already in a freelancing way. But it was fun to delve into narratives. And I know, for example, that like, spittle, drop and then from couch camera kind of met through 48 and but to get right and obviously I met you, Thomas. Something with which is exciting and same thing with, Molly Doyle. I wonder, the worst female filmmaker award last year. And she won it the year before. So I was kind of scouting out those people. And, you know, you message people when you like their work and you keep a, a close eye on who's in which crew, which is so useful for carrying out projects and future. Because when you're looking around for people in your area, you know, you find yourself going through the credits of these other films being like, oh, well, this sound was really good. Or they're, you know, they're lighting or their props were really cool. So I agree with your, comparing it to speed dating is such a such a good way to put it. That's exactly what it feels like. So yeah, super useful. Any any reflections on that from your experience that. Yeah. I mean, we in 2024, we combined like kind of combined catch premiere with two other teams in a way. We brought Connor and Olivia and from Old Science at the time, and then we had Rosie as well. And Rosie house and it was great because I think we already as you get you when you when you spot someone who you think, we really like their work and you can get their change to go, they might make them inside, for example, at city finals or wherever you can. Then say, you know, do we get along socially? Do we get a like, do I like this person? Like, do I think that we could work together? I think that's that's my first kind of litmus test. Or if I want to work with someone is if, like, just kind of like, I think like a, a friend or a might, you know, to begin with, and that's definitely happening for that for sure. It's been great. Yeah. It's like there's, I mean, especially in Wellington, like that's before, but like in my work in commercial video, like, you don't necessarily collaborate as much as you would necessarily in like indie something industry or because you are a little more siloed. I think, in your your teens, you tend to have your crew that you kind of stick to. But any opportunity you can get to kind of get outside that group a little bit or expand that group, just, maybe people make you as scribe. And, what came first there was the Rosie, because I remember Rosie was in a Henry ad with you. Me? That would have been first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so how has like. Because how is that relationship that you make in 48 and those crew that you, you hang out with in 48 kind of fit into your actual commercial production? Might as well. Yeah. I mean, I've been used up I think I've used like all my nights and commercial videos where possible. But I'd seen Rosie, I think it was the one that I did where, I remember the name, but is that, like, right, like the writing the one. Oh, I. Tried it in, like, hydrangea, and I and I'd seen her one the year before as well, and I was like, oh, this is a very good idea. Which is very funny. So I did just reach out to her and we had a, campaign coming up for Henry that I thought should be really good for, stretched out and just sort of. I don't think she talked to a lot of that. So just just having to be sort of serendipitous, really, that I had a, I had a role that I thought would be she'd be great for. And she was very interested. And then me pretty much a replacement on the set, I think. Yeah. And then it was just like, oh, she's great. Like, so the hang out was super lovely. There was also a very good writer that she, she sort of co-wrote. 48. We did that. Yeah. And car started as well. So, yeah, I mean, I had any negative experiences with meeting someone and being like, oh, they were, but shit, actually, you know, like, I don't know, you, you can kind of trust your instincts. I guess if you see someone's work and you go, they've got great work. I've really enjoyed watch them on screen. Or I thought that like, like you're saying like the lighting was really good or whatever bounces. Like if they also did 48 hours and I and I and I live in the city you live and like I feel like there's a, there's already a few things going in your favor. So like, get along. So. And that I think, it's kind of a one of the reflections I have like over the last 15 years of being in the industry and all of the, like small ways in which you to connect with people and interact with people, that then ripples forward in ways that you don't quite expect to understand or know, like, the, the connections that you make, and industry functions, say, where 48 is like this hothouse of it because you're all coming together and you're not just, like sharing this collective experience of each other's films, but you're also seeing people's stuff. And so you're able to like both connects, be it vibes with their mahi. And, it's just this other beautiful, ecosystem where you're able to like, start those little ripples, those butterfly effects of relationships that, you know, develop over for you for and will have developed over years and years in the comp. And for Emily and Sierra, you're probably you're kind of, earlier and the process been fun, but, still feeling those kind of butterflies, happening because that really was, what, 48 has been both outside of the competition and then now within my role, and so just just thinking with, like the producers pathway and, like 48 hours kind of stresses and relationships and also, being like a way in which producers can maybe get, a rung on the board, any I would love to hear you can reflect on how you feel like 48 has supported your trajectory as a producer towards, funded projects or, professional work. Sara, do you want to go? I'm I'm thinking, but I think. Like, I think it's genuinely down to the connection stuff you guys were talking about earlier. It's just a way to showcase something you're able to put together in a very short amount of time. I think it's mostly about. You know, after when people look at your thing, they get a sense of what you can do. I don't know that I've. It might just be those invisible strings. Maybe I'll find out. That ended up so. You gave us money because we loved you thing from last year, you know. So. What about. What about you, Fred? And you've got a longer tail with the camp? Yeah. Can you remind me the question again? So I'm kind of just. So how is how is 48? So the infrastructure of 48 kind of springboard it into professional work for you. In terms of producing as well? Yeah, I mean like I think my, my commercial work like it's very specific. But the work we do with Henry is it's direct. There's no agency in between us and them. And so we're often getting work around really, really quickly. And I'll sometimes I'll often produce stuff or I'll have been where it may just moved to Australia, actually, but it can do stuff like, who produce that. And so we, we kind of do it all somewhat in-house and we do it quite quickly. And I think the experience we've had from 48 hours being forced to do stuff just so quickly has helped us a lot like, and we also, comedy skits and stuff that we've done sort of outside footy that has and they're all kind of in the same world of we, we turn them out pretty quickly, like maybe not regularly or frequently, but we when we start to finish, the production is pretty short, like, and I think that's just kind of how I like to work, how my brain kind of gets to scratch that itch of wanting to make something not. I don't tend to like sitting on scripts for months and months or really meticulously, making sure projects, I don't know, I feel like I, I just kind of work quite quickly. And so, yeah, it's like perfect in that way. And I maybe, and I'm not sure a chicken egg, I'm not sure which came first. Like, I'm not sure if doing 48 hours so young was formative to the way I like to make films, or if it was the way I like to film to make films fits around 48. It's kind of hard. So, the why? It's a it's a perfect sense of its format. And I think, and it's kind of. Yeah, it's definitely then continued into the professional career. Just right. That's a bit of a point of difference, really. Like it's gotta make something, make somebody like a high quality quickly and sort of economically, you know, by not, not not having to work with crazy budgets and, being quite nimble. Yeah. It's been a, it's been quite a good point of difference that's been definitely honed for 48. Yeah. And because I feel like 48 like because you started so young will have inherently you would have built like a sense of brand or identity with the films you made in the comp. And we see that translate with a bunch of teams historically have kind of started in the comp and then built their brands off the back of it, like Mac Patty and Villa Dirt League as well. Who kind of build, build, use that as the building blocks of, a showreel effectively that shows the stuff. But it's also like a testing ground. And I think you've done really successfully with your brand as well, and your company, because you've got such a distinctive sense of voice that, people love. Like, oh, thank you. I think, I think in 48, like you, you are only really going to make things you want to make, like you're not going to spend 48 hours making something that you just like. Yeah. So like, it's a very much a place that you can get the genesis of what you, what your brand is, you know, and in a real pressure cooker environment, like, and then finally it's, it's, it's high, high stress, high octane, you know, just very high energy. So you pour a lot of yourself into 48 no matter what. So whatever comes out, the other end of it is things to be pretty true intuition of what you enjoy making. And so that's I think that's why it's a natural springboard then for a lot of people like my putting over them years ago in the competition and they've gone on to do amazing animated TV shows and things, and it's still the same style that I used to do, you know, 17 years ago, and the same kind of a lot of the same voice actors and like, it's, it's quite cool to say, where that all began. And to see that, like, in some ways it's not really it's gotten a lot more advanced and a lot, like, technically a lot better. And like, they've grown their voice, but you can definitely still say it's a, it's the kernel of what makes them them is still there. It's very cool. Yeah. And that's why I love for that as well. Because there's no, there's no like no kind of executive making decision you know about whether that's like government funding voice, you know or you know it's like there and you just have that freedom to freely express themselves and they can't, like you say, can't do anything else in that short time space. You don't want to spend 48 hours making something you hate. And I'm always, like, deeply impressed by the originality of the, like, the stories that come out and, the closeness of the films to the filmmakers, in quite a special way. And, Yeah. And Emily, you you won. You produced the Wellington winner last year, and you won the Best Female Filmmaker award. And what's kind of happened for you this year in terms of your producing career? I think 48 had even more of a reach for me than I was expecting, which is so cool. So yeah, very, very thankful for that. When last year and being connected with with it was just so incredible and had such long legs of kind of like getting into that community and attending those workshops and kind of meeting a lot of those incredible names. And then I started kind of I got work for New Zealand Film Heritage through that, which was exciting, and I just started getting people reaching out to me with, like their projects and ideas. And I landed a bunch of music videos that just people were wanting a producer for that were nearby. And then, more recently, I'm producing something for a whole factory, which is also through Thomas, having recommended my name through something, and we're doing a toy film at the moment, with Molly, whose work with both seen in 48 and loved before. So yeah, it's been like very, very successful for me as like an emerging person to have like all of these industry connect immediately has been, really, really cool. And just like I encourage anyone who enters the competition to, like, really take advantage of like the huge pool of, like filmmakers and organizations that are involved because it has such a wide reach, like there are very few people in organizations, I think, in New Zealand that don't at least know about what's going on there. Which I'm continuing to learn, which is really, really cool. So I think, yeah, I think take advantage of that networking where you can that's what it's there for. All right. So I'm trying to do that. And now it means most of what I'm doing is producing, which is completely opposite to before we won. And this was like a side hustle. This is like my main thing now. And that's very, very cool. So yeah, enrichment. Cool. So what's your favorite 48 hour film that's not your own that you saw last year? Horrible, horrible memory. I know. Sorry. One that came to mind was the chicken nugget. One. I think that was the national winner. Yeah, I just I watched that one like five times. Yeah, there was a great moment when nuggets won at the yeah the grand final. Round and was really cool. It's just. The winner is the cliche but. Yeah right. We never quite got it. It didn't when I got it. Look you guys were amazing later on. But we thought it was. Wait, don't please. I got it wrong. Are you listening? You know what I mean? But, you know, like, the grounded. I thought we were. We thought like. Oh, because I didn't when it when Wellington. Right. And then we don't want to win the whole thing, which is the magic of this competition. But, I said this in our school. So. Then we went up there and I said, oh, my gosh, we're so happy and thankful. But like, shout out to grounded because I sat there and I was like, so one of for sure, our whole team think grounded is so cool and don't let any traction away from them. So no, I'm joking. There's no shade there. I think that is like one of the most incredible footage I've seen because, I just I was like, wanting to cry. I was like, oh, you could show this to young people and old people and and it was just so widely accessible. I love that film. Oh, I love that film. And I'm so happy with how far those boys have gone with it. It's happening, which is so cool. So that was 1 in 2009 from the Nate and I think the winner from 2009 that we're going way back to hand-drawn animation. Which was really cool. I think it was, it was, it was about a guy, like making a boat and the image of his, like dead wife or something. I'm not sure if you can still say that, but that was like an animation that was also just like it was fully hand-drawn as well. Which was just something that can. Yeah, I just don't know. It's thousand and nine went up. Yeah. I don't know if the screening room goes back that far. But I think, like, grounded trajectory is a really amazing one because they like Chris, Adam had completed less, less time than Chris, but Chris had been complaining since high school, learned animation and 48 hours, then went and applied it as like a job. Like Chris is an animator for a whole bunch of, professional clients, had retired from 48 or like had gone on hiatus, came back and then one. And then the film that they made in 48 hours, they polished and it's now doing the most incredible festival run, like the first film to be selected in competition and NSA, the biggest animation festival in the world. From New Zealand in like ten years or something. As well as Tribeca as well, as well as well as, as well as as well as as well as as well as it's really incredible. And it's the perfect example of, that the infrastructure that the competition, provides in terms of like career trajectory, but grounded for me is such a beautiful expression of Chris's authentic, gentle voice. And, and that's what's resonating as well. And Chris and Adam's, voice, that's resonating internationally. So when you storyboard your film, we got questions. We got questions. Yeah. Yeah. So when you storyboard your film, is there a particular number of ideas you whittle down from? And is there a problem of too many cooks in the writer's room? Is or is all ideas welcome? So first question. When you storyboard your film or write your film, is there a particular number of ideas you will down from? I think it's sort of like you throw everything at the wall and then you whittle down naturally. In terms of cooks in the kitchen, definitely. At the scripting stage, I would have a limited amount of people helping with that. I think you get a general sense of your team and who is interested in being part of the creative process upfront, and who wants to be more of the technical side or of, involved in the next day because, there'll be some people who just are very passionate about the actual filming, and so they naturally won't be a part of the, ideation. And that part, I think has always worked itself out on my team. During. When we're similar, we do like an iterative approach. We'd throw everything at the wall and then try to, like, spend maybe ten minutes on each idea. Thing where it could go story wise. And then if we're struggling, we comment on the next one, and then we can kind of once we've got, say, half a dozen ideas, we would then go through again and be like, okay, which ones and which ones quick. I just get right because they're not for them anymore, because usually the idea that you want, you'll be like, what's that one? Like, I don't I've never been a situation where we're arguing about which is the best idea. We all kind of agree. I think, like all that one's really strong. All that one, all the all. We haven't found it yet. We tend to try to keep going until we've found that thing that we're like, oh, that's, that's the one we want a good. And I think that that kind of reflects a lot of processes that I hear from teams is that, that kind of like they, they start at 7 p.m. like with this wild brat brainstorm like everyone throwing ideas on and then they hone in. Some people give it a time limits. Like we've got an hour or two hours of just brainstorming, and then they kind of lock the, I think this is Dane's process, and I didn't hear a sense for Titans about. And then they they have a couple of writers who go away and write the scripts and they so it's a smaller group of people. And I guess, I guess, I particularly with my younger teams or my less experienced teams have heard stories of like people falling out at that stage. And that's where producer is really helpful because you have a circuit breaker who, if people don't agree, the producer makes the decision they are the mediator. Let them do it. Pro tip. Very good. Cool. What is the optimal TR do you do not try to make him. Yeah. Something we do that kind of make sure. I think it's great to brainstorm together and, like, everything is just how your team works best. But sometimes we can find that you funnel right into, like, one idea, one way of thinking. As soon as it's the first thing said out loud. So we will, like, break out within the space. You know, we've got our snacks and our drinks and blueberries and what what what to for 20 minutes. And we were all just like, sit and we're all set and just like, write down the ideas. We have silently. Because sometimes you can come up with such wildly different approaches that, like, you wouldn't have been influenced by each other. And then we, like, come together after like 20 minutes. We all say them without having heard each other's. So you get like the biggest range of what to say. So that's like a fun way to do it. And then from there we work collaboratively and then they like kind of send it down to just the K people because I agree with the too many cooks in the kitchen. That's what I did in uni. We were all like, well, we should all equally pay part of it. Every single person on the team I like. That's a lovely idea, but good luck having, you know, 15 people write a story into. Another. As well. So not not the usual pipeline of a, stream project either. You know, to have like a million, you kind of have your writer's room or, if you're a film, often it's actually just one writer voice. But the process of having multiple writers allows you to stress test the ideas and kind of elevate them. So, so I would I would always encourage teams to try and model that, like, you have a single director who's making that decision, you know, or a pair of directors, and it's the, you know, giving people clear jobs and roles and just trusting them. And then that, what is the optimal team size when entering for the first time? Six know. Once we had five five. Yeah. Once the first three and four four I'd say come for us like 5 to 6 would be the really optimal. Yeah. What would that what was the kind of like I reckon you need like someone who's exclusively editing, like someone exclusively in post and like a director and a producer and a sound recordist and a sound master who's also your composer and. And your talent and then and your talent as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I would say like. If. We're going to go by Thomas's metric, it sounds like probably about ten people, Jesse of and off like tech crew on board. Or if you're going to do real guerrilla, then you can do like four or something. But then everyone has to wield, like, a bunch of hats. Yeah, yeah, it's probably worth thinking about what skills you have immediately available to you, what you really want to do, what you really don't want to do, and kind of building off that, you know, like building to the strengths and the weaknesses in your team. Yeah. How many packs. Each person's willing to wear? Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Crap. We've done a very similar structure of, like 6 to 8 people with, like, plus talent. So that always ends up around like 10 or 11 or whatever. Because it's basically just like you're working with, just like eight days. Yeah. And at least. Yeah, yeah. I was I was just thinking if you weren't sure of the size, maybe you make a list of, like, the things you need to have covered, like editing, writing, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you can take off who's willing to do what, and then just make sure there's not like an overlap where let's say, like Emily is taking on like ten different roles and then if it's just like, okay, everyone can take on 2 or 3 and this feels feasible to do that, that could be a good crew size. Does that make sense? Yeah. And every team is going to have like different roles that they think aren't as critical, I guess, like or not as critical, but not as critical to get to like, one person, like I think, and that would just be dependent on people's skill set personalities and whatnot. Like some people are more focused on the shoot and the, the prep than they might not put too much emphasis on the outside of it. And like, it might seem like they may not end up having a separate sound mix. You know, like it's going to just be kind of. Everyone's got a slightly different make up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can get as well. I was actually came I had to. Exact and and then we also have the, the teams who I think kind of like the, the bravest of the superstars who are solo George Haynes. Yeah. That's like the bravest of the superstars. And lived at a salt at the job musical. How did Connor and Liz kind of came in back in like 2018, I think. And it was kind of brutal, like outdoor, fully outdoor shot two people. Musical. Not entirely serious. Chodas did a musical with their first, their first film I saw as well, which was about the worm. I think they would be such. That is such a brutal thing to get as a solo to the musical genre. Any, last chance for questions. Because we're we're almost at the end. But while we're waiting on any final questions, are they kind of, any final pieces of advice from the producers on the panel? For these these, emerging producers, for emerging filmmakers, for the at our competitors, any like, final nuggets of wisdom that you want to share? I think going back to what people said earlier, when you ask people about what they role is, ask them what they enjoy doing as well, rather than just what they can do, because I often find someone who's like an agent who might actually really want to try something else, and that could be a really fun time to try that out. Yeah. And you probably get the best from people who want to do the role. I'm so good at something that may not give it their all. Totally. It's supposed to be fun. The 48 is about having fun and truly. Yeah, yeah. That is literally about to say. I think my biggest piece of advice would be the same thing. Like, just remember, like you've you've done this optionally. Like it can be fun, even though it's really fast and constrained. I think like the the worst feedback I hear are from teams who, you know, got to like wrapped up in the stress of the time period. Like this is a really cool opportunity to just try something. Yeah. So it's a competition, but it's it's really not all about the outcome of the competition. It's like having a chance to create and express yourself. I think it's really cool as a producer as well. If you can be a person to check in and just be like, hey guys, like vibe check, how are we feeling? Like, who here is like the most stressed? How can we help them? Everyone take a two minute breather because there's two minutes. It's not kind of like put us completely off track for the whole. So I'm like reminding people that you can take five and just like shake it out and eat some food. And just like keeping it is as like fun as you can, I think is the best thing. And what we've had the most positive experiences with, which I think is hilarious because with the video shop, we've kind of done dramas but had such a like sweet, upbeat vibe on set. We're all kind of like we're all giggling and celebrating each other and eating and like, you know, it's you don't need to just be like, logged in serious to make good stuff. If you can find an efficient way of working that that's all that matters. You know. I was I was just at business and they were talking about how our industry started with a group of people just who were all kind of mates getting out there and making stuff. And that's how our and our pioneers of our film industry started. And that is what we do in 48 hours. And I was also thinking about how in the, in the the seed talk, they talked about how as filmmakers that that, you know, everyone was, worried about the loss of short film and that actually people just need more practice and to get out there and 48 hours as a way that you can just without any risk, without any, you know, people kind of judging you for it, other than your regional managers who watch every film. Twice. You you can just practice. You can just try a thing, you can swing hard, you can test and feel how an audience is responding to the beats in your in your film. And that's what that, that ability to test in front of an audience as well as making the YouTubers such amazing filmmakers. And that's what we get to do in 48 hours. So, that's my summary. And the last question that we received is a very important one, which was then what is your doggies names and breeds? I love getting a lot of attention. They, banana and column and they are both border collies. One is a red and white and one is black and white has even got another leg. I. I have something kind of boring to say as well. I just remembered. But show it. Show off the dogs fast, please. There we go. I think, combat. Say. Boy, you got you. Yeah. One thing that I actually think would probably be useful to do is if you're going to get talent on board early, like a cast, you might actually want to talk to them beforehand and just be like, what are you comfortable doing on screen? Because if some people are signing up for a good time and then you end up writing like a really dramatic piece, that requires a lot of crying, they might not be down for that. Or, inevitably when you're doing really balls to the wall of ideas about somebody, you know, I think someone, said something about like a sex scene or something a couple of years ago in mind. And then I was like, I, we can't do that, you know, like, you just you want to be cleared early and not put pressure on the actor in the moment just to say that they're not comfortable doing it. And it's also good to just give yourself those limitations a little bit, like. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes having fewer options is better. Like, I think like I want to have the world to explore for that. But honestly, the more limitations you give yourself, the more you'll you'll really be focused and hunt for those like really good ideas. And then there's limitations. So yeah. Yeah. Awesome awesome. Well thank you so much everyone. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. This is now going to exist on the interwebs for a little while. And thank you for joining us. Participants. Good luck with your 48 hour films. If you haven't registered already, please go and do so. Look for. You can register at the 48 Hours decoded in Z. And if you're an emerging producer, you should join spotter and, make the most of the beautiful organization that this is. As well, that supports produce with a whole bunch of toolkits to and yeah, thanks for joining us, and we'll see you another day. All right. I don't know how to do this now. I guess. Okay. This. This. It's like we're we're being left to it. Gallery. Am I going to be saying people joining? I can see that it says 19 participants. Oh, we got 19 participants. Oh, that's good girl. So we can we can see the participants. The it's a it's a feeling good to be honest. Yeah. 20 now of. It's co. It's on the 21. It's on the toolbar. Thank you I'm going next to chat. Yeah. Hypotensive for another. It's a you and I pulled Josh my neck. Yeah. Okay. Well there's two Paul Andrew's two became. Co well, I reckon, I reckon we're, we're 4 p.m. on the dot, so we'll kick because this is also being recorded so that, it can exist in perpetuity for the internet's, Kira. Everyone, my name is Thomas Capell. My pronouns are they them. I'm a producer based in, So I'm going to say it's had a Wellington. Recently just produced, feature film Beggars Don't Cry, which is coming out and, in the life, it's opening night film. I'm also a spotter executive member and have been for the last. This is my fourth year, and I'm also the Vista Foundation, 48 hours, Wellington regional manager and have been since 2021. So I cross the bridge of both the spot and the Vista Foundation 48 hours. This webinar is going to be a bit of a Q&A with our wonderful panelists. And then at the end of the webinar, we will kind of answer the questions, that you all can submit, and the, the Q&A section. So feel free to just follow those through. And then there'll be a ten minute slot at the end. We will answer any of those burning questions. But I would like to welcome our amazing, panelists that we are joined by. So we have, three, storied competitors of the competition who are, hosting this panel with us. We've got Finn O'Connor, who's from the legendary Team Couch Kimmerer. Finn started as a high schooler, back in how long ago? Friend one. Doesn't. Ten, 2010 and actually won the competition not long after that for the first time. And Wellington, you're a multi-time Wellington regional winner. Careers. And, and is just retired. But Finn has also established a really amazing, business out of the couch, committed brand. You will have seen his ads for him, right. And other other. Sorry. All these different all those ads. And then. And then we have Sara Chin, who was one of the fellow, the co-producer, alongside wiling out of, the team permanently, permanently confused, which won Auckland the Auckland regional finals last year. And Sara is, a stunning emerging producer and in her own right, as as Emily Arden, who was the, Wellington regional winner, with Video shop last year and also won the emerging, Female Filmmaker Award, the weft award last year. So these are some very storied competitors. And we're very lucky to have you all. Thank you for taking this time. So let's just crack into the Q&A. What? For each of you, what does a producer, do in 48 hours? What's the role of a producer with 48 hours? A like that. Then? I think someone who's actually, like, typically producers to start this one. Yeah. Go ahead. Emily. Okay. I think, I mean, that's it's an unusual competition for a producer because we live largely in pre-production, and then you've got this competition that's smashed into this tiny time period. So I would say, it's making sure everyone knows where they're going to be and when. Like you, I often find, meshing into the kind of first day day role as well, when you've got a smaller team, but there is always kind of good advice, like scouting locations in advance and getting your crew together in advance. So may I like, defining the team roles as well in advance so you can kind of go in knowing what had set your brainstorming the ideas for with a, you know, each person's kind of thinking about their department. So, yeah, if you're someone who likes management of, of of people and departments and overseeing staff and you've got a logistical brain, then producing is is a good spot for you. Yeah. What does it look like for you, Sara? Yeah. I mean, Emily made really great points. I think one of them is just making sure people stay safe. Because, you know what? It is just so hectic like that. A lot of the things that you scaffold people for kind of get missed because it's so rapid. So just making sure that people are taking care of themselves, actually, like a lot of people stop drinking water, eating, you know, safety in terms of like emotional safety and stuff. Make sure you're not asking too much of people because everyone really wants to get this thing done. But you want to just make sure that it's like everyone's going to walk away happy that they did it. Everyone's roles do bleed over during 48. Like you'll end up doing some par roles, you'll end up gasping or something when there's not enough people around. So just being open to doing that sort of stuff. Yeah. And and any kind of like pro tips that you kind of already talked to like the, the importance of prep but could, could maybe one of you talk us through your kind of what prep like pre 48 kind of tends to look like for you. Maybe you fem. Talk to that. Yeah. Yeah I mean so it's it's like servicing getting the crew getting crew together prior. Sorry. And, that's pretty important. Like, for me, there's a lot of bleed, a lot of bleed over in the roles. So I'm often directing and producing and shooting. So she's really insistent. And so, I'm just sort of making sure that my usual team and it's not my usual planes and extras that want to jump in a spring available on the weekend. We do some pretty rigorous, like, equipment testing. We make sure that we sort of our loadout is ready to go because we may not know what we're going to be filming on or filming with, but we just need to make sure that whatever we decide to do, it's ready and the batteries charged. And we're not going to be like scrambling on the morning of the shoot. And other than that, like, we don't tend to do like a whole lot of, location scouting or there's a lot of prep work in terms of trying to find the, props and costume and locations and stuff. Prior, I think we we we write, let that be dictated by the story on the day, on the Friday and then just sort of roll with it. And sometimes in the past when we have chosen a location prior, it's, it's ended up almost to our detriment because it means we have to sort of like, pigeonhole what our story is into that place. So we try to keep that pretty open. It's often like people's houses. And, as honestly, I'd say we've probably some, most of them just at a house, some of them out in Makita, like some outdoor ones, but like, it's, it's pretty unreliable with long term weather. So we like we tend to do like these days trying to be like an entire shoot outdoors if we can avoid it. Yeah. Yeah, that's basically the prep work we do. It's like just making sure runs came to their. Yeah. And because you just spoke to that kind of pre location scouting, that your, your team has done in the past. But also a lot of teams tend to do and as well. But but also with that being like 7 p.m. you suddenly get, you know, your genre, your elements and everything kind of changes. What, what is it like from that moment for you kind of organizing your teams? Like what? Do not walk me through kind of the shape of the shoot. We can just kind of from an an organizational point of view for each of you. For step. You might sound fancy. You can start. I'll start. Sure. Yeah, yeah. So we normally like we would all, You're not just gonna leave it there. We would all gather, the whole team we usually get on the Friday, regardless of where the people are writing or operating camera or whatever. I like to get everyone in the room for the announcement for, like, the gentlemen and things. You snacks and drinks, maybe just sort of set the scene a little bit. And then it's kind of for us, it's quite an organic, move into the on set development. Like, we'll also have a reasonably large group, people throwing out ideas and things. And then once we once we kind of get to a point where we're happy with a broad concept, we're moving into the scripting. And then at that point, we usually trim the numbers down a little bit. People will, either go like gone or all that kind of just take a bit of a backseat and just hang out my place in Xbox something. But, I think we've been doing it so long that people kind of fall into the roles that familiar with. And if I ask someone like, can you help to get started? You can be up for it. But we don't have a we usually got lucky not have a problem with like, people's tipping on other people's toes, and getting upset that like someone's doing something they wanted to do with. We're pretty collaborative in that way. We'll write until we try to write until, like on the Friday, we want to try and get a pretty solid idea and script and, like, idea of locations and that sort of thing. On the Friday, if we can. And then basically shooting is usually from like Saturday morning. I'm not sure of how much detail you want me to go into here. Yeah, yeah. What we throw away cuz. Yeah. Yeah, sure. So then I'll try to get a good night's sleep on the Friday. Like, I think the idea of running the whole 48 hours, like, without sleep, is massively underrated. You're way more productive if you get, like, a couple of nights of six hours of sleep, like, that's. You are much better off. So you get up pretty early. We would normally shoot, we try not to. We try to avoid shooting, like, well into the evening. We want to try and direct by, like, early evening, late afternoon, early evening so that we can then get offline, like, you know, get a rough cut together before I go to sleep on the Saturday night, or Sunday morning, because there's no worse feeling than going to bed on that Saturday night slash timeline, not having an idea of where the what you shot will work. Like, I find that's, just you just don't sleep at night if you think like, oh, I don't know if that sequence is going to fit together or if it's going to flow or if it's going to feel right. So I find it hugely helpful to have a basic cut down before I go to bed. So I think like, yep, we will need to pick up so that that and that otherwise structurally sound. Or in the case of 2019, we shot a whole lot of stuff. And then on the Saturday night, I put it all together and it was just as not working. So about six in the morning, I kicked it around and said, look, we're changing. If you trust me, we're changing basically everything. Which turned out to be a good move, I think. And everyone understood once I explained, like, my ideas and things. So, that's just like the way I do it. I like to not leave the Sunday as, like a primary shoot. I like that is that is the day to do any essential pickups. But that's also like a post that is your own, your sound mix and you like the idea you need or mixing sound effects like anything like that should be on Sunday, I think. And we try to get it like a pretty close to finish done by like 5 p.m.. Like if we can look at it at 5 p.m. and go, yeah, heck, we'd be happy to submit that we're on the right track. And then we use the last two hours just, like really tight, some stuff up and, I mean, in some cases we just submit it like we think. Not I think anymore, but just. Okay. And yeah, we've had one like, submission 2012. Otherwise we've had them all in on time. So, yeah. I'd say it's, it's a pretty good method. Pretty good, formula for us and. Yeah. Any, any kind of, commonalities or differences with with the two of you. Sara. What's it kind of looking like? What's it look like for you for the past couple of years? Yeah. It's interesting to hear what everyone preps and what they leave to chance. I think we usually have sourced, like, one location at least, just to know that we've got a place. And, yes, weather is a huge thing. You don't want to be like, oh, yeah, everything's going to be in a park. And then obviously it's like raining. And gear. Gear is definitely a good one to just figure out, what you have at least the day before. We leave a lot to chance, because whaling and I both like that sense of chaos, of, like, rushing and getting things, sorted on the day. So last year, I think we got. What genre do we get? Action adventure or something? And so we ended up having to last minute, get a standee on board, read Forester, who's amazing. And I had never met him before. So like, that sort of stuff was really fun for us to have to do. Last minute. Yeah. So we usually have the team come over. Anyone who's wants to come and yeah, we have food there and everything, but some people, might be coming from work and just need a night's rest, and we're, you know, open with that. Once we get the genre and we get everyone to contribute to the story. Same thing. Once you guys have locked down the story, the writers, keep going and doing their part. Meanwhile, you're just figuring out the logistics of what the shoot day is going to look like the next day. I think historically, historically is. And I've done it for like two years, but, the last two years, we shot everything on one day. So we finished shooting on Saturday. And we would also have I have our editor on location, so then we would be dropping, to them. So they would be editing while we were shooting. And that would kind of be the way that would be checking if anything looked right. Sunday is mostly just a day of editing. Yeah. We haven't really shot on Sunday ever. Yeah, it's just interesting. It's great. You kind of like drawing to the, like, leaning into the chaos of 48 and, like, making, like, spontaneously within like six hours. You need a stunt, which because people would think that's not a normal thing for a producer and a production, but actually, that is exactly what a producer in a normal production will do. Like, my experience on my big feature film was that we were because you know, you have so many. You're creating like a microcosm of society. You have so many things that always go wrong. And that's incredibly normal. And so learning as a producer, the muscle of like, sort of spontaneously figuring stuff out at last minute and calling those, clinics and getting them online, is like a good, muscle training, I think, you just remind me of that serous like. Greg. Bring it up. Emily, what about you? Is there. Oh. Oh, no, I just I just remembered one thing, which was that I forget this every year. So I'm glad that we're talking about this now, that you probably want to rope in, like, a friend or two. You're going to inevitably cold to be like, crap. Can you please get me? There's, like, weird dress from dress mod or something because we need this exact problem. No one can get it because I have always ended up wrapping up, roping in like one random non film friend to run an errand. So I think that just will happen on the weekend. Yeah, yeah. And Emily, what about you? Was there anything that you kind of is there anything different about the structure that you've kind of gone with or. I think we've found quite a similar pattern, actually. All three of us, but especially fun as you were talking, I was like, oh, that's literally what we do. Which is like an inevitable Friday hangout. We all, like, unify in one space. We eat a lot of food. We, like, hang out before the announcement starts so you can get the kind of like just the catch ups, you know, out of the way before the timer kind of thing. And then we kind of like, brainstorm like popcorn, do ideas and stuff for a bit and then like Skeleton Crew sit down for like the script writing, which, like in the past we've had kind of like director and DOP slash writer together and I might shadow and just like, be there to, like, bounce off of the, the, like the logistics of those ideas like, okay, so if you're thinking of this, here's where we could put it. I agree with what you guys were saying about not being too stuck on location because you can pigeonhole yourself into like, well, now we need to make something for this. Just kind of like and to the 48 hour idea of like doing it all spontaneously. So we try to have a list of resources more than planned locations of like, okay, hypothetically, we could shoot, you know, at grandma's house and at my brother's backyard and all that kind of stuff. So that when the story's coming together, I can be looking at that list of people knowing who I have to, like, quietly text and be like, hey, so you know how we said that we might want to use that? Like, you know, classic ask. And I also definitely agree with the, like, the sleep thing. I know there are some teams that are like 48 hours awake. I kind of did that the first time I entered in uni. I think that's, a lovely canon experience, if you feel like it. I don't think it does make the best films personally. And I think, like, if you have it in your team, you can even, like, roster. Who is doing that? Like, the editor might be working more from like they may not sleep as much on that Saturday night. So like make sure they're getting a full night Friday night sleep kind of thing if you can. Depending on how your team is structured, we try to do it that way. So everyone gets some sleep on both days. But at least you're getting like one big, full sleep. And then if you have to have a little one, depending on your departments, we kind of do it like that. So no one's like dead by the end of it. And I agree with like prioritize Saturday for filming and Sunday for us is just like pick ups if we have to. And if so, in the morning, like by lunchtime, like you, we cannot be doing any of that. Which we've had a mix of. We've also, as Thomas now you were saying. Oh, we've never handed them in late except for this one time. We got it in like, like to the minute last year. So be ready. So like your, your tick to just, like, give out randomly, you know, every now and again the, the computer you're editing on, which has been fine for six years is like having a, having a spat at the time. So I agree with like give yourself a fake deadline hours before because inevitably like you'll need that time. I have to like lie to myself and pretend the competition like slowly ends like two hours before it does. I usually. And you called me Emily. Like what? What time did you call me last year? Oh. I actually don't. I don't remember, but it was within, like, I was like half an hour beforehand and you were like, oh, was it like. No, it was like. Even later it was like 650. It was like 650. I got a call from Emily, panicked, going, oh, computer just crashed. What do we do? And I was like, just be really. It just keep going. Get a name, do five tricks. And then Emily called me at, like, 655, and I was too busy answering someone else to call. And then I called her back and she was like, we. Got it in. Let me check some. I gotta check something. Yeah. Yeah. But very similar. Yeah, yeah. So that's a testament to, like, continually stress testing your equipment and having, like, a good, pipeline and also things to avoid and look out for. You kind of have all talked about trying to be finished, you know, when you're shooting on the, on the Saturday, but is there any other kind of major red flags that you can think of that you think people should kind of be conscious of, particularly as a producer, when you've got a director running super late, maybe, fan from your wisdom from many years. I was talking to, I was talking to Josh by like Josh, who's been on the caps cover of time quite a lot. He does my dogs now, he's going to be the director, DP producer this year. As I say, bring me up asking for litter bus. I did say, like, try your best to delegate the jobs that don't require too much brainpower to somebody else. Like if it is running an errand or getting snacks or building. Not that not building. Like getting props and stuff doesn't require brainpower. It's just like not the it's not the maybe the best use of the time of the I mean, that is more of a director thing. I don't know, like I think if I, when I'm doing directing and like directing, dipping and producing, it's like you got to be quite careful about how you get the time and like, what tasks you should just be like, while I want to do this because it's like a nice break, it's also like a massive waste of time, and someone else could quite happily do it and quite easily. And it might actually be a strength as well. Like identifying the strengths of people in your team and being like, oh, you may be the the gaffer, but you're actually like, really good at this other thing. Could you jump in and help us do that? The red flags don't, I don't know. I would say. In the post process, we've had really good luck with like, people editing concurrently. So like if you're using light to resolve, you can you can be doing color grading and editing at the same time, or color grading and sound mixing on the same project, which is super helpful. So doing that stuff instead of waiting, let's say having it is like a linear pipeline. We like to the color grading is waiting for you to get the edit done. If you can do that stuff in parallel. Because sometimes, like if you're waiting for a sound mix, but you've had to deliver like a locked in to this, out to the sound engineer, and then you're waiting for the sound to come back, you're like, oh, really? Twiddling your thumbs in that time? Like panicked. So having, like having control of every aspect of the post in like one room, I would say like having your having your sound in a certain way if it's a different person, like next to you, someone who's like physically next to you, you can talk to and like not having that be in a different building, you know, kilometers away because that's just like you're introducing so many different file points. So yeah, I'm not sure if that's like a red flag, but say, like just trying to keep trying to reduce the number of, of file points. Yeah. Yeah. Which is really good. Producing and actually you're talking like when you're talking to like the juggle that a lot of because a lot of teams, and 48 hours tend to be, director, producer, DOP, you know, every, every man. But I guess that kind of also speaks to the benefit of producers, which are like the caretakers of the set and the caretakers of the filmmaker. And the in the idea of terms which we need on all sorts of productions and, yeah, the role that they, I know that they quite commonly play is the, the hustlers on the other side, while the director is dealing with the creative problems or managing the actors, the producers thinking ahead and providing that, Yeah. If you're doing all three by yourself, you can definitely feel like very burnt out, but important, like, yeah, you can just be like, you've worn on, have worn too many hats and two short space of time. Like if you had a week or two, you could probably nicely divvy up days where you play each role. But because 48, you're like every ten minutes you're just switching role, which is yeah, is doable. Whether it's like the optimal way to do it. I mean, that's up to the but yeah. Yeah. Well, and that kind of speaks to like the opportunity with 48. Like for, for me, I scouted my first ever short film team that I applied for free shorts funding with out of 48. And that has consistently been a space where, as a young producer, I sought out new, fresh voices. I've been quite successful, and I know a lot of people have paved that pathways, via that way. Can you kind of talk to the way in which you've, each of you, have found, relationships or tested relationships through 48? Or elsewhere? I think. Sara. Sara's story. Yeah. Well, but I actually was interested in the previous question in terms of do you guys have, like, a deadline in your brain that you work to for getting the story, or at least like the skeleton of the story by on night one? We have changed the script well into the Saturday for sure. Like the concept, I think the like the wider concept. Like sometimes we don't have an ending, which is it's a horrible place to be in, like like, oh, what a great first to act. But we try, I mean, and the films that have worked the best, we've had the whole concept on the Friday night, like we've gone to bed. It's the same thing, like going to bed on Saturday night with, you know, like a sort of, assisted edit that works. It feels much better going to bed on the set of. Not just like you feel so much better going to bed on the Friday night. You go into it, go into sleep with like an idea that you feel really good about. Like, I just think leaving a half bite does it to us. It's kind of an uncomfortable feeling to know. Yeah, we've kind of set like a mini roll of like, we need to be out of here by midnight. Like we cannot be changing the concept of the whole film again. You know what I mean? Like, you need to just stay at. We're just going to stick with it. I don't think those stories maybe stopping and the people writing its heads, then. But at least we're making sure that people are, like, getting home and, like, doing some sort of one down, because otherwise it's easy to just be like another 30 minutes, another hour and, you know, and then it's Saturday. So that's kind of we have that little like we want to have usually a fleshed out, fleshed out, developed idea around ten. And then like those extra two hours for fleshing it out if you get it done earlier than that, that's great. But yeah. Yeah, I think 48 provides a structure to like, make instinctual decisions. So you're like and that that means that, because you're forced because of time and all the pressures to, like, just decide a thing and, and consistently golden nuggets that produced, you know, where people could languish on ideas that then like you were talking about then like you don't want to overcook anything. And so and sometimes I would say that particularly with short film, that's a great way of, approaching things. The so just just back on that question. So, yeah. Okay. Your Ted talk about how you've used 48 as a tool to test and build relationships. It's a I think this this one's a two parter. So one is like the people that you actually get on your team, actually, I guess read the stunt guy as a good example because last year we didn't think we needed stunts. And so we got him last minute and he was keen to do us a favor. And then we ended up really loving working with him. And then if we had stunts in the future, we knew that we had this person that we wanted to go back to. And on a more like above the line level, it's a good way to test out a director producer, a director DOP that's below the line. But yes, HD relationships is it's like speed dating is, what I was calling it. And then, yes, I definitely really enjoy going to see the 48 that come out that year. And I do note down the people that I want to work with. And I think I have talked to a couple people afterwards before. So it's it's good like talent scouting. Because you've worked with apparently confused. You have both y lang who you produce the V for and porn who you produced turtle tent. So yeah. How do you find. It's like a is there any like kind of link with, with those kind of more long term projects and what you kind of get to do with 48. Is it is it more like a play or. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like a breather actually, which is funny, but it's it's going back to the guerrilla roots of filmmaking when it's actually less hierarchical, I suppose. And the goal is just to make something. So it kind of to me, I end up loving 48 because it feels like it's going back to the joys of just making. And it's rediscovering that feeling, I guess with whaling and porn, at least for me. What about you, Emily? Yeah. No, it's definitely been a great thing. I remember crash testing my even, just like my my, grad film and uni by working with some of those people. And, like, you really do get an idea under the pressure, like how those relationships work. And then the same thing with, with Team Video Shop that we've had for the past few years, that we were all kind of, working alongside each other already in a freelancing way. But it was fun to delve into narratives. And I know, for example, that, like Spiro, DOP and then from Kuch camera kind of met through 48 and worked together really. And obviously I met you, Thomas. Well, you know. Something with which is exciting and same thing with, Molly Doyle. I wonder the worst female filmmaker would last year, and she wanted the year before. So I was kind of scouting out those people. And, you know, you message people when you like their work, and you, you keep it, a close eye on who's in which crew, which is so useful for carrying out projects and future. Because when you're looking around for people in your area, you know, you find yourself going through the credits of these other films being like, oh, well, the sound was really good. Or they're, you know, they're lighting or their props were really cool. So I agree with your, comparing it to speed dating is such a such a good way to put it. That's exactly what it feels like. So yeah. Super useful. Any any reflections on that from your experience then? Yeah. I mean, we in 2024, we combined like kind of combined catch criminal with two other teams in a way. We brought Connor and Olivia and from Oakland sign say at the time. And then we had Rosie as well. And Rosie house and it was great because I think we all you as you get you when you when you spot someone who you think, we really like their work and you can get the opportunity to go there, like make them side, for example, and city finals or wherever you can. Then say, you know, do we get along socially? Do we get a like, do I like this person? Like, do I think that we could work together? I think that's that's my first kind of litmus test. Or if I want to work with somebody is if I just kind of like, I think I can be a friend or a mate, you know, to begin with. And that's definitely happen for that, for sure. It's been great. Yeah. It's like a, it's, I mean, especially in Wellington, like that's before, but like in my work in Commissioner video, like you don't necessarily collaborate as much as you would necessarily in like in this industry or because you are a little more siloed. I think, in your your teams, you tend to have your crew that you kind of stick to. But any opportunity you can get to kind of get outside that group a little bit or expand that group just, then you people make you as a scribe. And, what came first fell was at the Rosie, because I remember Rosie was in a Henry ed with you. Me? That would have been first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so how has like. Because how is that relationship that you make in 48 and those crew that you, you hang out with. 48 kind of fit into your actual commercial production. Might as well. Yeah. I mean, I've been used to used like, all my nights and commercial videos where possible. But I'd seen Rosie. I think it was the one that I did where, I were the name, but there is that, like, right, like the right thing going on. Hydrangea and hydrangea, and I and I'd seen her one the year before as well, and I was like, oh, she's a very good actor, which is very funny. So I did just reach out to her and we had a, campaign coming up for Henry that I thought should be really good for stretched out and just sort of. I don't think I actually talked to a part of that. So it just it just happened to be sort of serendipitous, really, that I had I had a role that I thought would be she'd be great for. And she was very. And she interested. And then me pretty much properly met on the set. I think. Yeah. And then it was just like, oh, she's great. Like, so the hang out was super lovely. And there was, I also a very good writer that she, she sort of co-wrote. 48. We did that. Yeah. And car started as well. So, yeah, I mean, I, I had any negative experiences with meeting someone and being like, oh, they were, but she actually, you know, like, I don't know, you can kind of trust your instincts. I guess if you see someone's work and you go, they've got great work. I've really enjoyed watch them on screen or I thought that like, like you're saying like the lighting was really good or whatever bounces. Like if they also did 48 hours and I and I and I live in the city you live and like I feel like there's a, there's already a few things going in your favor. It's like, get along. So yeah. And that I think, it's kind of a one of the reflections I have, like over the last 15 years of being in the industry as all of the, like small ways in which you and to connect with people and interact with people, that then ripples forward in ways that you don't quite expect or understand or know, like, the, the connections that you make, and industry functions, say we're 48 is like this hothouse of it because you're all coming together and you're not just, like sharing this collective experience of each other's films, but you're also seeing people's stuff. And so you're able to like both connects, be it vibes with their mahi. And, it's just this other beautiful, ecosystem where you're able to like, start those little ripples, those butterfly effects of relationships that, you know, develop over for you and will have developed over years and years. And the comp, and for Emily and Sierra, you probably you kind of, earlier and the process been fun, but, still feeling those kind of butterflies, happening because that really was, what, 48 has been both outside of the competition and then now within my role, and so just just thinking with, like the producers pathway and, like 48 hours kind of stress testing relationships and also, being like a way in which producers can maybe get, a rung on the board. And I would love to hear you kind of reflect on how you feel. Like 48 has supported your trajectory as a producer towards, funded projects or, professional work. Sara, do you wanna go? I'm I'm thinking, but I, I think. Like. I think it's genuinely down to the connection stuff you guys were talking about earlier. It's just a way to showcase something you're able to put together in a very short amount of time. I think it's mostly about. You know what? People look at your thing. They get a sense of what you can do. I don't know that I've. It might just be those invisible strings. Maybe I'll find out. That ended up so. You gave us money because we loved your thing from last year, you know? So. What about. What about you, Fred? And you've got a longer tail with the comp? Yeah. Can you remind me the question again? Some kind of. Just. So how is how is 48? So the infrastructure of 48 kind of springboard it into professional work for you. And in terms of producing as well. Yeah, I mean like I think my, my commercial work like it's very specific but the work we do with Henry is it's direct. There's no agency in between us and them. And so we're often getting work around really, really quickly. And I'll sometimes I'll often produce stuff or I'll have been through versus me who's just an interest rather actually. But he can do stuff like the, he'll produce that. And so we, we kind of do it all somewhat in-house, and we do it quite quickly. And I think the experience we've had from 48 hours being forced to do stuff just so quickly has helped us a lot like, and we also, comedy skits and stuff that we've done sort of outside footage that has, and they're all kind of in the same world of we, we turn them out pretty quickly, like maybe not regularly or frequently, but we when we start to finish, the production is pretty short, like, and I think that's just kind of how I like to work till my brain kind of gets the stretch, that itch of wanting to make something not. I don't tend to like sitting on scripts for months and months or really meticulously, making sure projects, I don't know, I feel like I, I just kind of work quite quickly. And so Fourier is like perfect in that way, and I maybe and I'm not sure a chicken egg, I'm not sure which came first. Like, I'm not sure if doing for that. I was so young was formative to the way I like to make films, or if it was the way I like film to films fits around 48. It's kind of odd. So, the way it's a it's a perfect sense of its format. And I think, and it's kind of. Yeah, it's definitely then continued into the professional career. Just right. That's a bit of a point of difference, really. Like it's gotta make something, make something like a high quality quickly and sort of economically, you know, by not, not not having to work with crazy budgets and, being quite nimble. Yeah. It's been a, it's been quite a good point of difference. That's been definitely home supported. Yeah. And because I feel like 48 like because you started so young will have inherently you would have built like a sense of brand or identity with the films you made in the comp. Yeah. And we see that translate with a bunch of teams historically have kind of started in the comp and then built the brands off the back of it, like Mac Patty and Viva La Dirt League as well. Who kind of build, build, use that as the building blocks of, a showreel effectively that shows their stuff. But it's also like a testing ground. And I think you've done really successfully with your brand as well. And your company, because you've got such a distinctive sense of voice that, people love. Like, oh, well, thank you. I think, I think in 48, like you, you only really get to make things you want to make, like you're not gonna spend 48 hours making something that you should watch. Yeah. So, like, it's a very much a place that you can get the genesis of what you, what your brand is, you know, and in a real pressure cooker environment, like. And by the way, it's, it's, it's high, high stress, high octane, you know, just very high energy. So you pour a lot of yourself into 48 no matter what role. So whatever comes out, the other end of that is, is to be pretty troop's intuition of what you enjoy liking. And so that's I think that's why it's a natural springboard then for a lot of people like my party, I remember years ago on a competition and they've gone on to do amazing animated TV shows and things, and it's still the same style that I used to do, you know, 17 years ago, and the same kind of a lot of the same voice actors in live TV. It's, it's quite cool to say, where that all began. And to see that, like, in some ways it's not really it's gotten a lot more advanced and a lot, like, technically a lot better. And like, they've grown their voice, but you can definitely still say it's it's the kernel of what makes them them is still there. It's very cool. Yeah I that's what I love for that as well because there's no, there's no like no kind of executive making decision you know about whether that's like government funding voice, you know or you know it's like there and he would just have that freedom to freely express themselves. And they can't, like you say, can't do anything else in that short time space. You don't want to spend 48 hours making something you hate. And I'm always, like, deeply impressed by the originality of the like, the stories that come out and, the closeness of the films to the filmmakers, in quite a special way. And, yeah. And Emily, you you won. You produced the Wellington winner last year, and you won the Best Female Filmmaker award. And what's kind of happened for you this year in terms of your producing career? I think 48 had even more of a reach for me than I was expecting, which is so cool. So yeah, very, very thankful for that. When last year and being connected with with it was just so incredible and had such long legs of kind of like going into that community and attending those workshops and kind of meeting a lot of those incredible names. And then I started kind of I got work for New Zealand Film Heritage through that, which was exciting, and I just started getting people reaching out to me with, like their projects and ideas. And I landed a bunch of music videos that just people were wanting a producer for that were nearby. And then, more recently, I'm producing something for now for Katy, which is also through Thomas having recommended my name through something. And we're doing a toy film at the moment, with Molly, whose work we've both seen in 48 and loved before. So yeah, it's been like very, very successful for me as like an emerging person to have like all of these industry connect immediately has been, really, really cool. And just like I encourage anyone who enters the competition to, like, really take advantage of, like the huge pool of like filmmakers and organizations that are involved because it has such a wide reach, like there are very few people in organizations, I think, in New Zealand that don't at least know about what's going on there, which I'm continuing to learn, which is really, really cool. So I think, yeah, I think take advantage of that networking where you can that's what it's there for. All right. So I'm trying to do that. And now it means most of what I'm doing is producing, which is completely opposite to before we won. And this was like a side hustle. This is like my main thing now. And that's very, very cool. So yeah, I agree. So so we're kind of we're getting to near, near the end of our session and we so I'm just reminding all the, the lovely people, if you want a Q&A you can Q&A. At the moment, the only Q&A question we have is leave Doug in frame. She's prettier than you friend. So? So some shade, some shade in the Q&A. Very true. There you. But I'm just kind of springboard off this could it okay with the any other things that kind of popped up on our panelists minds while we wait to see if there are any questions that want to come through the little Q&A button down the bottom. What's your favorite 48 hour film that's not your own that you saw last year? Horrible, horrible memory. I know. Sorry. One that came to mind was the chicken nugget one I think that was the national winner. Yeah, I just I watched that one like five times. Yeah, there was a great moment when nuggets won at the yeah the grand final. Round and was really cool. It's just the winner is the one that cliche. But yeah we never quite got it. It didn't when I got it. Look you guys were amazing. Don't get it wrong. But we thought it was. Wait, don't get me wrong. Are you listening? You know what you mean? But you know, the grounded. I thought we were. We thought like. Oh, because it didn't. When it didn't when. Right, right. And then we don't want to win the whole thing, which is the magic of this competition. But, I said this in our school. So then we went up there and I said, oh my gosh, we're so happy and thankful. But like, shout out to grounded because I sat there and I was like, so one of for sure our whole team think grounded is so cool and don't take any traction away from them. So no, I'm joking. There's no shade there. I think that is like one of the most incredible footnotes I've seen, because, I just I was like, wanting to cry. I was like, oh, you can show this to young people and old people. And and it was just so widely accessible. I love that film. Oh, I love that film. And I'm so happy with how far those boys have gone with it. It's happening, which is so cool. So that was 1 in 2009 from the Nate and I think the one from 2009 that was going way back. The hand-drawn animation, which was really cool. I think it was, it was, it was about a guy, like making a boat image of his, like, good wife or something. I'm not sure if you can still see that, but that was like an animation that was also just like it was fully hand-drawn as well. Which was just. And we still see that can. Yeah. I just. Don't know. Yeah. Thousand and nine one up. Yeah. I don't know if the screening room goes back that far. But I think like, grounded trajectory is a really amazing one because they like Chris, Adam had competed less, less times than Chris, but Chris had been competing since high school, learned animation and 48 hours, then went and applied it as like a job. Like, Chris is an animator for a whole bunch of, professional clients, had retired from 48 or like had gone on hiatus, came back and then won, and then the film that they made in 48 hours and they polished and it's now doing the most incredible festival run, like the first film to be selected in competition. And now see the biggest animation festival in the world, from New Zealand in like ten years or something. As well as Tribeca as well, as well as well as, as well as as well as as well as as well as it's really incredible and it's the perfect example of, the, the infrastructure that the competition, provides in terms of like career trajectory. But grounded for me is such a beautiful expression of Chris's authentic, gentle voice. And, and that's what's resonating as well. And Chris and Adam's, voice, that's resonating internationally. So when you storyboard your film, we got questions. We got questions. Yeah. Yeah. So when you storyboard your film, is there a particular number of ideas you whittle down from? And is there a problem of too many cooks in the writer's room as or as all ideas welcome. So first question. When you storyboard your film or write your film, is there a particular number of ideas you whittled down from? I think it's sort of like you throw everything at the wall and then you whittle down naturally. In terms of cooks in the kitchen, definitely. At the scripting stage, I would have a limited amount of people helping with that. I think you get a general sense of your team and who is interested in being part of the creative process upfront, and who wants to be more of the technical side or of, involved in the next day because, there'll be some people who just are very passionate about the actual filming, and so they naturally won't be a part of the, ideation. And that part, I think has always worked itself out on my team. During, When we're similar, we do like an iterative approach. We'd throw everything at the wall and then try to, like, spend maybe ten minutes on each idea thing where it could go story wise. And then if we're struggling, we comment on the next one, and then we can kind of once we've got, say, half a dozen ideas, we then go through again and be like, okay, which ones and which ones we can just get right on because they're not for them anymore, because usually the idea that you want, you'll be like upset one. Like, I don't bit a situation where we're arguing about which is the best idea. We all kind of agree, I think, like all that wants to be really strong or that one or we haven't found it yet. We tend to try to keep going until we've found that thing that we're like, oh, that's that's the one we want to do. And I think that that kind of reflects a lot of processes that I hear from teams is that, that kind of like they, they start at 7 p.m. like with this wild brainstorm like everyone throwing ideas on and then they hone in. Some people give it a time limit, like we've got an hour or two hours of just brainstorming, and then they kind of lock the, I think this is the Dane's process, and I see Dane here since for twice about and then they have a couple of writers who go away and write the scripts and they so it's a smaller group of people. And I guess, I guess, I particularly with my younger teams or my least experienced teams have heard stories of like people falling out at that stage. And that's where producer is really helpful because you have a circuit breaker who, if people don't agree, the producer makes the decision. They are the mediator. Let them do it. Protip very good. Cool. What is the optimal audio dinner that you might. Yeah. Something we do that kind of make sure. I think it's great to brainstorm together and, like, everything is just how your team works best. But sometimes we can find that you funnel right into, like, one idea, one way of thinking. As soon as it's the first thing said out loud. So we will like breakout within the space. You know, we've got our snacks and our drinks and blueberries and what's it for 20 minutes. And we were all just like, sit and we're all set and just like, write down the ideas. We have silently, because sometimes you can come up with such wildly different approaches that, like, you wouldn't have been influenced by each other. And then we, like, come together after like 20 minutes. We all say them without having heard each other's. So you get like the biggest range of what to say. So that's like a fun way to do it. And then from there we work collaboratively and then they like kind of send it down to just the K people because I agree with the too many cooks on the kitchen. That's what I did in uni. We were like, well, we should all equally pay part of it, every single person on the team. And like, that's a lovely idea, but good luck having, you know, 15 people write a story into. Another. As well. So not not the usual pipeline of a stream project either. You know, to have like a million, you kind of have your writer's room or, if you're a film, often it's actually just one writer voice. But the process of having multiple writers allows you to stress test the ideas and kind of elevate them. So, so I would I would always encourage teams to try and model that, like, you have a single director who's making that decision, you know, or a pair of directors, and it's there you know, giving people clear jobs and roles and just trusting them. And then that, what is the optimal team size when entering for the first time? Six months? Once we had five. But yeah. One, two, three and four four. That's that's I've come for us like 5 to 6 would be the really helpful. Yeah. What would that what was the kind of like I reckon you need like someone who's exclusively editing like someone exclusively in post and like a director and a producer and a sound recordist and a sound master who's also your composer and. And your talent and then and your talent as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I would say like. If. We're going to go by Thomas's metric, it sounds like probably about ten people, Jesse of and off like tick crew on board. Or if you're going to do real guerrilla, then you can do like four or something, but then everyone has to wield, like, a bunch of hats. Yeah, yeah, it's probably worth thinking about what skills you have immediately available to you, what you really want to do, what you really don't want to do, and kind of building off that, you know, like building to the strengths and the weaknesses in your team. Yeah. How many packs. Each person's willing to wear? Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Crap. We've done a very similar structure of, like 6 to 8 people with, like, plus talent. So that always ends up around like 10 or 11 or whatever. Because it's basically just like you're working with just like days. Yeah. And that at least. Yeah. Yeah, I was I was just thinking if you weren't sure of the size, maybe you make a list of, like the things you need to have covered, like editing, writing, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you can take off who's willing to do what, and then just make sure there's not like an overlap where, let's say, like Emily is taking on like ten different roles. And then if it's just like, okay, everyone can take on 2 or 3 and this feels feasible to do that, that could be a good crew size. Does that make sense? Yeah. And every team's going to have like different roles that they think aren't as critical, I guess like or not as critical, but not as critical to get to like one person. Like, I think, and that would just be dependent on people's skill set personalities and whatnot. Like some people are more focused on the shoot and the put the print than they might not put too much emphasis on the other side of it. And like, it might seem like they might not end up having a separate the sound mix, you know, like it's going to just be kind of everyone's got a slightly different make up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I get as well I was actually came I still had POG. Exact and and then we also have the teams who I think I like the, the bravest of the superstars who are solo George Haynes. Yeah. So like, the bravest of the superstars. And lived at assault at the job musical. How did Connor and Leeds kind of camp legend back in like 2018, I think. And it was kind of brutal like outdoor fully outdoor shot two people musical. Not intended to do the musical with their first. Their first film I saw as well, which was about the worm. I think they would be such that is such a brutal thing to get as a solo in the musical genre. Any, last chance for questions. Because we're we're almost at the end. But while we're waiting on any final questions, are we kind of, any final pieces of advice from the producers on the panel, for these these, emerging producers, for emerging filmmakers, for the at our competitors any like, final nuggets of wisdom that you want to share? I think going back to what people said earlier, when you ask people about what their role is, ask them what they enjoy doing as well, rather than just what they can do. Because I often find someone who's like an agent who might actually really want to try something else, and that could be a really fun time to try that out. Yeah. And you probably get the best from people who want to do the role. I even think that is something that may not give it their all. Totally. It's supposed to be fun. The 48 is about having fun and truly. Yeah, yeah. That is literally about to say. I think my biggest piece of advice would be the same thing. Like, just remember, like you've you've done this optionally. Like it can be fun, even though it's really fast and constrained. I think like the the worst feedback I hear are from teams who, you know, got to like wrapped up in the stress of the time period. Like this is a really cool opportunity to just try something. Yeah. So it's a competition, but it's it's really not all about the outcome of the competition. It's like having a chance to create and express yourself. I think it's really cool as a producer as well. If you can be a person to check in and just be like, hey guys, like vibe check, how are we feeling? Like, who here is like the most stressed? How can we help them? If you want to take a two minute breather because there's two minutes, that's not gonna, like put us completely off track for the whole. So I'm like reminding people that you can take five and just, like, shake it out and eat some food. And just like, keeping it is as like, fun as you can, I think is the best thing. And what we've had the most positive experiences with, which I think is hilarious because with the video shop, we've kind of done dramas but had such a like sweet, upbeat vibe on set. We're all kind of like we're all giggling and celebrating each other and eating and like, you know, it's you don't need to just be like, locked in serious to make good stuff. If you can find an efficient way of working that that's all that matters. You know. I was I was just at business and they were talking about how our industry started with a group of people just who were all kind of mates getting out there and making stuff. And that's how our and our pioneers of our film industry started. And that is what we do in 48 hours. And I was also thinking about how the insidious they talk they talked about how as filmmakers that that, you know, everyone was, worried about the loss of short film and that actually people just need more practice and to get out there and 48 hours as a way that you can just without any risk, without any, you know, people kind of judging you for it, other than your regional managers who watch every film. Twice. You you can just practice. You can just try a thing, you can swing hard, you can test and feel how an audience is responding to the beats and your and your film. And that's what that that ability to test in front of an audience is what is making the YouTubers such amazing filmmakers. And that's what we get to do in 48 hours. So, that's my summary. And the last question that we received is a very important one, which was then what is your dog's names? And breeds? I love dogs getting a lot of attention. They, Banana and Colin and they are both border collies. One is a red and white and one is black and white. Let's see if I can get another look. I. I have something kind of boring to say as well. I just remembered. But show it. Show off the dogs first, please. There we go. I think. Colin Brown. Say you're boring. You got. Yeah. One thing that I actually think would probably be useful to do is if you're going to get talent on board early, like a cast, you might actually want to talk to them beforehand and just be like, what are you comfortable doing on screen? Because if some people are signing up for a good time and then you end up writing like a really dramatic piece that requires a lot of crying, they might not be down for that. Or, inevitably when you're doing really balls to the wall of ideas about somebody. You know, I think someone, said something about like, a sex scene or something a couple years ago in mind. And then I was like, we can't do that, you know? Like, you just you want to be clear early and not put pressure on the actor in the moment just to say that they're not comfortable doing it. And. It's also good to just give yourself those limitations a little bit. Like, yeah, yeah, sometimes having fewer options is better. But I think, like, I want to have the world to explore for that. That's honestly the more limitations you give yourself, the more you'll you'll really be focused and hunt for those like really good ideas. And then there's limitations. So yeah. Yeah. Awesome awesome. Well thank you so much everyone. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. This is now going to exist on the interwebs for a little while. And thank you for joining us. Participants. Good luck with your 48 hour films. If you haven't registered already, please go and do so. Look for. You can register at the 48 Hours decoded in Z. And if you're an emerging producer, you should join spotter and, make the most of the beautiful organization that this is as well. That supports producers with a whole bunch of toolkits to and yeah, thanks for joining us, and we'll see you another day. All right. I don't know how to do this now. I guess you want to go. Okay.