Sarah Witney (mono)

In this episode of A Chat with Heart features a snowy hike with Christina and her friend Sarah Witney. Join Christina and Sarah as they venture into the Witney Wilderness to talk about life, love, loss and mother nature. 
 
Sarah is many things, including a mother, artist, yoga instructor, pickleballer, birder and a citizen scientist! She is also a dedicated volunteer with FOPE (Friends of the Pugwash Estuary), an Environmental protection organization in Pugwash Junction, Nova Scotia.

For more information on and ways to support FOPE (Friends of the Pugwash Estuary) please visit:  www.pugwashestuary.com

Transcript

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 S1E16 Sarah Witney

Mon, 5/9 6:05PM • 57:19

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

trails, tree, hike, sarah, pandemic, forest, friends, podcast, estuary, nature, people, life, bit, christina, woods, dale, fluster, communicating, bob, nice

SPEAKERS

Take My Body Home - Song, Theme Song - Talk About It, Heartbeat Hotline, Sarah Witney, Christina Martin

Christina Martin  00:00

(Theme song - Talk About It - playing in background) Welcome to A Chat with Heart Podcast. I'm your host, Christina Martin. I'm here to guide us on this journey of heartfelt and uncensored conversations with friends I've met while touring my music in Europe and across North America, and people who have life experience that I genuinely believe we can all learn from. Our personal stories have great power to heal, influence, and inspire. All we have to do is show up for the conversation.

Theme Song - Talk About It  00:31

If we just talk about it, we can shine a light, we can break a dark day. If we just talk about it, we can cut away, we can make a brighter day.

Christina Martin  00:52

My guest today is Sarah Witney. I've known Sarah for many years. And throughout the pandemic we've run into her and her partner Bob, hiking on the Pugwash Estuary trail near where we all live. I've attended one of her guided nature walks. She's also a volunteer and member of the Friends of the Pugwash Estuary, also known as FOPE. FOPE is an environmental organization. They look after the Pugwash Estuary. And most of the trails that we all love to hike, have to be looked after by someone. Takes volunteers, takes money to keep nature preserved and protected. I wish it didn't have to be that way. I wish we didn't need volunteers and to spend money to protect nature. It's like we're fighting to just keep the 5% of the old growth forest in Nova Scotia. Like it just shouldn't be that way. It's so weird that were there, you know, but that's where we're at. Thank God for the volunteers and those organizations that are protecting the trails obviously. If you want to find out more about FOPE, visit www.pugwashestuary.com. And of course visit when you're in the area. So in this episode, we did something a little different. I asked Sarah to take me on a hike because hiking in nature has been a really important part of both Dale and my experience throughout this pandemic. So in this episode, I wanted to try to capture why hiking in nature is so important. And so that's why I went on this hike with a friend who is ultra connected with mother nature. Sarah is also one of this podcast's little heartbeat listeners. I want to thank her for her support over the years for what I do. She's a lover of nature and community and reciprocity. She's a very caring individual. He teaches yoga. She's a visual artist. She's a writer. She plays pickleball. She's all that and much more. A very lovely soul. In a few moments, you'll hear Sarah leading us into our chat playing a drum that was gifted to her by an indigenous elder. I really hope this episode inspires you to make a walking date with a friend in the woods. Don't bring your phone. Leave it at home. Just have A Chat with Heart while you walk. Let me know how it went.

Christina Martin  03:38

So what's in the medicine pouch?

Sarah Witney  03:40

Sacred herbs. And some of them I've gathered myself and some of them have been gifted to me. And you just place you know some sacred herb down on the ground when you're going out as just a gift and asking permission as we enter the woods. 

Christina Martin  03:45

I love that. 

Sarah Witney  04:07

Yeah. And we've got our tea. 

Christina Martin  04:09

Got our tea? Really? We are all ready? 

Sarah Witney  04:12

Yeah, it's in the backpack. 

Christina Martin  04:14

Oh, I love it. Okay, you got the chocolate.

Sarah Witney  04:16

I got the binoculars in case we want to see some birds.

Christina Martin  04:20

Amazing. 

Sarah Witney  04:21

I love looking at birds. 

Christina Martin  04:22

Love it. Okay, here we go. 

Sarah Witney  04:24

Okay. Wow, we got a nice warm sunny day here. 

Christina Martin  04:29

We were so lucky because tomorrow the storms are coming.

Sarah Witney  04:33

Yeah, we got warnings about that, don't we? 

Christina Martin  04:36

We do. 

Sarah Witney  04:36

Flooding and maybe too much rain all at once. 

Christina Martin  04:39

It's happening a lot more. 

Sarah Witney  04:41

Yeah, all these extremes are seeming to be happening.

Christina Martin  04:45

Didn't used to be such an extreme place to live, did it?

Sarah Witney  04:49

No, no. You kind of knew what to expect a little bit more than, now you don't. You gotta be kind of prepared for things to go from one extreme to another.

Christina Martin  05:01

True that. We have a very wet basement. And it's actually so wet that it's not such a big deal if it floods. But I mean, you know, I have friends overseas that have experienced flooding and like water rising above the roof. Isn't that scary? 

Sarah Witney  05:25

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  05:26

And so I think well, it wouldn't be fun if the water rose and you know, our electrical boxes in the basement and the furnace and then you think jeez am I covered by insurance? 

Sarah Witney  05:42

Christina, sometimes do you think that maybe mother nature is a little pissed off?

Christina Martin  05:48

Oh, mother nature is definitely pissed off. 

Sarah Witney  05:51

I don't blame it. 

Christina Martin  05:53

Yeah. And I think about how, you know, there's so much going on in the world, so much suffering, and how, you know, a part of that is all tied to mother nature and mother nature being pissed off.

Sarah Witney  06:13

And finding her balance.

Christina Martin  06:15

And when there's a something like right now, you know, we're going through, there's a war. And so we have to react, and help, and support. But, you know, the mission to help mother nature is kind of being pushed aside a bit as well.

Sarah Witney  06:38

Yeah. The environment, this earth, this world is very important for us to look after. And it has to be a priority, I believe. 

Christina Martin  06:50

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  06:50

So sitting out there in front of us is in Inukshuk of my dog. 

Christina Martin  06:55

Really? 

Sarah Witney  06:56

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  06:56

Tell me more about that. 

Sarah Witney  06:57

That's Bonnie there. You know your song, Take My Body Home? 

Christina Martin  07:04

Yes. 

Sarah Witney  07:05

Okay, so that's a perfect song for Bon because she drowned herself in the river when she was old and ready to go.

Christina Martin  07:15

Really? 

Take My Body Home - Song  07:16

Take my body home. Take my body home.

Sarah Witney  07:30

I didn't really know if she had disappeared or what had happened to her on the night that she left. And I went looking and looking and looking for her. But, I did hear some splashing through the window at night. And then when she was gone, there was about a period of, I think it was about eight months. And then her body was found downriver, floating. So it had gone through the ice. It had gone through seasons. And then it was found again, by my friend who has been canoeing on the river. 

Christina Martin  08:09

That is incredible. 

Sarah Witney  08:12

I know. I know. But you know, it was her time. And that was her way of leaving and taking her body home.

Sarah Witney  08:21

Port Howe bridge. 

Christina Martin  08:21

Oh, hey, Bon. That is amazing. What a story. I feel like I should share the story of that song. I think it would have been around 2011 or so when we moved to Port Howe. And we were driving over the bridge. 

Christina Martin  08:42

Yep. To visit Dale's parents in Pugwash. And there was a vehicle stopped on the bridge and a police car. And it was sort of oddly parked in the middle of the bridge and we had to drive around it. And we thought well that's odd. And then once we got to Dale's parents place, at some point, we were watching the news and there was a report of a missing man. And the photo of the bridge, and this vehicle that we just passed. And I believe that this body was found of a gentleman all the way down by the Confederation bridge. I'm not sure what the time frame was but it was soon after. I don't know if you, when you drive by there you notice the remnants of where the old bridge was?

Sarah Witney  09:40

Yes.

Christina Martin  09:40

The roads. Now, it's kind of used as a boat loading kind of spot. But, we used to drive over that bridge and Dale used to tell me stories of how they would park on that. That old road and you know smoke cigarettes and whatnot. And so it just triggered  the incident, the story of the car parked, and the man that had jumped and living in the area and thinking about his family. And it just triggered like this idea of like living in this area and even Dale growing up spending summers in Northport, moving back to this area, and this whole kind of cycle, life cycle, and coming back home and then in a way, this decision that this individual may have taken was, in a way a decision to sort of come back to a sense of home. And I don't know what was going on in his life. But, I imagine there was a feeling of maybe loss of control and wanting to have some control over deciding, you know, I want peace. 

Sarah Witney  11:05

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  11:06

And ultimately, I don't know, sometimes I feel like a sense of coming home is like finding peace.

Sarah Witney  11:12

Yes, those cycles that are happening. Death, I guess is a part of life. And one of the things I wanted to tell the listeners is that, you know, it's okay to leave dead stuff around. In fact, it's quite good for our environment to leave some things that are dead around. They make homes for many things, food sources for many things. Butterflies lay eggs on leaf litter. So you know, it's okay to leave things looking a bit messy in your yard and leave weeds and stuff like that. Yeah.

Christina Martin  11:14

That's something we've been trying to practice in our, what we call it the forest project. And I'm constantly trying to save like twigs and old stumps and just throw things out in the field to encourage the growth because it was a field that, you know, machinery, frequently tilled it, and over the years, it sort of lost its nutrients and ability to regenerate. So throwing that back in there, and then just letting it do its thing. But, a lot of people they want things to be, how do I say, you know, if it doesn't look pretty like they want it to be manicured. Want to cut down the weed trees, and I say, let it all do its thing.

Sarah Witney  11:59

I think there's, you know, some parts around our homes that we like to plant certain things or open up to let the sun in and things like that. But, I think if we could all leave spaces, or protect some spaces from that, then we're kind of leaving it for our brothers and sisters of other creatures.

Christina Martin  13:07

Yeah. I was wondering if you were always someone who is connected with nature?

Sarah Witney  13:15

I guess it's always been important to me. And my dad's a photographer, and he was doing a book on lighthouses. And I lived in Ontario. And he brought the whole family to the East Coast. And we stayed on Prince Edward Island in a lighthouse. And I just fell in love with the Maritimes. And I just knew that this was where I wanted to set roots. And this feels like home to me. And I certainly feel like I've set roots. In fact, one of the places I'd like to take you for a walk today, I call it Witney, that's my last name, Witney wilderness. And it's an 80 acre piece of land that I've bought so that it will be left for nature.

Christina Martin  14:05

Amazing. 

Sarah Witney  14:06

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  14:07

That's one thing that people can do, if that's feasible, and they're looking for a way to give back to mother nature, something to leave behind. You know, a way to reduce their carbon footprint in this lifetime is purchasing land and how do you make sure? Is there a way to like guarantee that if that's what you want?

Sarah Witney  14:34

I think there is ways. I think you can certainly use the Nature Conservancy of Canada. There's all different ways that you can steward land. For me personally, I have the land in my inheritance, it would go to my two sons. But, they know that that is what my intention of the land is. And that's what I would like for the future.

Christina Martin  15:08

And now it's on a podcast, so they're gonna feel real bad.

Sarah Witney  15:12

That's right. 

Christina Martin  15:13

If they don't follow through with your wishes. What are their names?

Sarah Witney  15:17

Luke. 

Christina Martin  15:18

Hey, Luke. 

Sarah Witney  15:19

And Miles.

Christina Martin  15:20

And Miles. You know what you got to do, guys? Do you want me to check in on them? 

Sarah Witney  15:30

I do. 

Christina Martin  15:31

I'll be in touch Luke and Miles.

Sarah Witney  15:36

We gotta keep paying it forward. 

Christina Martin  15:39

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  15:40

Yeah.

Christina Martin  15:40

The gift must continue to be given. 

Sarah Witney  15:42

Yeah. And the grandkids too now. 

Christina Martin  15:44

Oh, boy. And you have a six? Or is it seven grandkids? Now I've lost track.

Sarah Witney  15:51

With Bob and our blended family, we have six. That's right. And Miles is the dad in my blood family, and he's doing a great job. And his little daughter is Lenny. 

Christina Martin  16:08

Hey, Lenny. 

Sarah Witney  16:10

She means light. And she brings it too. 

Christina Martin  16:13

Oh, yeah?

Sarah Witney  16:15

Well, isn't this sun nice talking about light? Wasn't that a nice to have a basking of sun today?

Christina Martin  16:22

Yeah, this is beautiful. And tell me about this, your property here? Like is this grass and heyfield in the spring? What does it turn into?

Sarah Witney  16:35

So when we bought the property, there was this field. And we have maintained it as field, but just every so often getting it cut. So you can see that this piece was cut last fall.

Christina Martin  16:43

Okay.

Sarah Witney  16:43

But, I've have heard that it's better if you're going to cut a field. I mean, unless you're a farmer, and you have certain reasons for cutting, but if you're just cutting a field to keep it as a field, I learned this from Bob Bancroft. He's a naturalist and a biologist, that it's good to do it in the fall, after things have run their cycle. 

Christina Martin  17:19

Yeah.

Sarah Witney  17:19

And the seeds and the eggs and the you know, all of nature's had chance to run on through. And so I'll do that half next year. Cut that half just to maintain it as a field. 

Christina Martin  17:37

Yep. 

Sarah Witney  17:38

And I've been cross country skiing all over this field and in the woods here. This winter it's been a great year for snow, hasn't it?

Christina Martin  17:47

It has been. Yes.

Sarah Witney  17:49

You've been getting out?

Christina Martin  17:50

We've been getting out, cross country skiing, hiking. Mostly those two things. Before the pandemic, we didn't know where we could hike in this area. Like we were so preoccupied with touring, always on the go. And we really just had no clue. And our connecting with nature might be when we did our spring you know, cleanup of the area. Maybe in the fall the same thing. Biking to the beach, we would bike. But, so we would, pretty much every day get out for at least a hike and then got some cross country skis and discovered, you know, the Estuary trail, the Peace trail, the Amur shore. 

Sarah Witney  18:42

Bird Sanctuary?

Christina Martin  18:43

Is that in Sackville, or is it one in Amherst?

Sarah Witney  18:47

The Bird Sanctuary trail is just outside Amherst. Is that the one you mean?

Christina Martin  18:53

Oh. That one, actually we have hiked that one. But no, I meant the Provincial Park in Amherst, just pass Northport.

Sarah Witney  19:03

I do love being out on trails. And I really appreciate all the work that volunteers like Bob and I put into maintaining trails and keeping trails clear. Especially we were talking earlier about these weather extremes. 

Christina Martin  19:20

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  19:21

You know trees are falling down on these trails with the winds and lots of rain. 

Christina Martin  19:28

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  19:29

Stuff like that. So

Christina Martin  19:30

Bob's your hubby?

Sarah Witney  19:31

Yeah. Yeah. Bob and I have been together for 20 years. And he's downhill skiing in Wentworth right now.

Christina Martin  19:39

That's okay. You know, I'm lucky to have you all to myself. I've seen you two. Like you seem like a great couple. You enjoy a lot of the same things. I've seen you playing pickleball.

Sarah Witney  19:48

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  19:48

And I see you on the hikes. 

Sarah Witney  19:50

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  19:51

And I feel lucky to have a partner that we have more in common than not in common. 

Sarah Witney  19:58

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  19:58

And I don't get the whole opposites attract thing. Like, do you consider yourself an opposite to Bob? Or? 

Sarah Witney  20:06

Yeah, in lots of ways we are opposite. 

Christina Martin  20:09

Yeah?

Sarah Witney  20:09

I think he's far more pragmatic. And I'm more of the dreamer or, you know, abstract person. So that. But, I do like the complementary feeling that two opposites can make. You know, it's like two pieces of puzzle that fit together. 

Christina Martin  20:31

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  20:32

And yin and yang.

Christina Martin  20:36

I still think you probably have more in common than not in common.

Sarah Witney  20:43

Yeah, yeah, we do love a lot of the same things. And it's really a great lifestyle we live here in Conns Mills, you know, staying very active. We're lucky because we're seniors, and we're still able to you know, move our bodies and it feels pretty good. 

Christina Martin  21:04

Seniors now to me are like super active.

Sarah Witney  21:08

This last couple of years, this pandemic, you're just touching on it, Christina, about how you've gotten to know what's right in your backyard. 

Christina Martin  21:17

Yeah.

Sarah Witney  21:17

The trails and getting to know nature better. And I think that we've all gotten to know a little bit more about what is right here and what we're grateful for. 

Christina Martin  21:32

Yep. 

Sarah Witney  21:32

And here in Nova Scotia, we've been getting it. It's like, wow pretty good. 

Christina Martin  21:39

Yeah. Even when it was rough, we still, comparatively speaking, we had it pretty good.

Sarah Witney  21:46

Yeah. I mean, you know, blessings on those Ukrainians and, you know, people that have to go through strife and difficult times. You know, I can't imagine it. 

Christina Martin  22:00

It is hard. But, I think it's important to consider what it might be like, and no doubt, pretty soon we will start welcoming Ukrainians. And we have in the past. Canada has. And Nova Scotia welcomed refugees. And we have to also think this is absolutely horrible and unimaginable. But, now we also have to think what's possible and what are the silver linings and how this could enrich our communities. It has to, you know. People are going to be moving here because they have to. And so we need to look to the the positives of how this is going to, you know. We need to make good somehow. 

Sarah Witney  22:45

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  22:46

You've hosted some some walking tours. 

Sarah Witney  22:49

Yes. 

Christina Martin  22:50

What is it that you love about doing that? I've been privileged to be on one of your walking tours.

Sarah Witney  22:56

Thanks so much. It's wonderful to share being in nature and the  gifts that nature give us. As long as people keep opening up those gifts, the more that they'll want to protect it and care about it. So the more people that understand how great the wilderness is, the better I think.

Christina Martin  23:24

That's what I got from that walk. It just made me want to pay closer attention, because one of the first things you mentioned is you mentioned it here again today was sort of an asking of permission and honoring, like, where you're going to step. Like thinking about where you're stepping. Your stepping on the roots of a tree that's alive and being as careful as you can as you're trawling through the trails, as sometimes we do with our spikes and our gear.

Sarah Witney  23:52

Well, you know, that's interesting that you bring that up because I teach yoga at the Peace hall in Pugwash where I offer some classes there. And, you know, a lot of what we do in our classes with our breath and our poses and our you know, making ourselves into pretzels is to be mindful. Be mindful of how does it feel to stretch that way. How is that feeling on the hip or the back. And you start to zero in and pay attention. And I think that conscientiousness and that being in the moment and being present. I think that's what it's all about to be alive.

Christina Martin  23:55

Yeah. Feeling pretty present right now. I saw you eyeing that box of chocolate.

Sarah Witney  24:47

I know. I know. 

Christina Martin  24:47

Did you want to, go ahead. Crack it open. So these are made with chocolate delights. 

Sarah Witney  24:54

Oh. You made these. So pretty.

Christina Martin  24:57

Just made them fresh even though they have little Easter cups from last year, but I did just make them a fresh.

Sarah Witney  25:03

Looks like St. Patty's Day. 

Christina Martin  25:05

Oh, yeah, yeah. If you don't look at the bottom, then absolutely. That was my intention. 

Christina Martin  25:09

In these chocolate delights, we have just some good old craft crunchy peanut butter. We've got some coconut, some organic sugar free coconut. Hemp seeds and cashews, raw cashews. And some vegan plant based chocolate. That's it. 

Sarah Witney  25:09

Yeah.

Sarah Witney  25:36

You know about this time of day, when I was a little girl, we would have tea. My mum and dad were English. And often there was a cookie jar with some cookies and you'd have something sweet with your tea. So this is just perfect. 

Christina Martin  25:52

This is perfect. Yeah, it's tea time. 

Sarah Witney  25:54

Tea Time with something sweet.

Christina Martin  25:58

Look, the school bus is here now. Do you know the school bus driver?

Sarah Witney  26:01

Yeah. Andy. 

Christina Martin  26:03

Andy. 

Sarah Witney  26:03

Yeah. Andy had to stop one day, because I was driving in the opposite direction of the school bus. And a deer jumped out on the Pugwash River Road and bam into my windshield. 

Christina Martin  26:17

Oh, were you okay? 

Sarah Witney  26:18

Yeah, I was okay. I don't know if the deer was though. And that's exactly what Andy said. He stopped the bus. He said, are you okay, Sarah? And I said yes. But, I don't know about the deer.

Christina Martin  26:30

Yeah. It's hard to know because then they'll run off and then you never know what internal bleeding. This is a frequent thing out here listeners. 

Sarah Witney  26:32

It could be moose. 

Christina Martin  26:43

That's right.

Sarah Witney  26:44

They have over Newfoundland. 

Christina Martin  26:46

Yep. Are there moose here? I mean, growing up in New Brunswick, we did see them on the highway, along the highway. But, I've never seen a moose. 

Sarah Witney  26:58

Well, there is certainly habitat for them around here. But, I think there was a disease that was spread by the deer that got into the brain of the moose. And we lost a lot that way. 

Christina Martin  27:15

That's too bad.

Sarah Witney  27:15

You know how there's sometimes these pandemics that come along and just wipe things out? Same thing to the bats.

Christina Martin  27:24

Well, I remember the bats because it's interesting that when we moved in 2011, into our old farmhouse, it was not revealed to us that there were hundreds of bats living in our attic. And we discovered this and then had to have them humanely removed, which we did. And then there was a period of time for about three weeks, where when they sealed the roof up, there were still some caught in the roof. And they were trying to find ways to get out and they were ending up inside our house, in our bedroom at 10 o'clock at night. 

Sarah Witney  27:59

Yeah, I've heard that before. 

Christina Martin  28:01

Yeah. And I was okay with it. But, Dale was terrified. And we had this netting put over our bed. We had get ready for 10pm, we would get our nets and tennis rackets to put over the net once we caught the bat. And then we had like all this gear, goggles. Like we were just a sight to see I bet. And we would lay in bed under the protection of this netting. And at 10pm, two or three bats would fly in. And then we would get out with our gear and trap them and then release them outside. Maybe one of them didn't make it. That's all I'll say. That wasn't my fault. That was Dale. 

Christina Martin  28:57

It's time for a Fluster break. I want to thank those of you listening, who have purchased the game Fluster online at www.flustergame.com and used my promo code to save 15%. The promo code is Christina15. Yeah, I really hope you're enjoying the game with your friends at home. And I hope that you are enjoying these Fluster conversation breaks with my guests. 

Christina Martin  29:29

This is great. Hey, do you want to play Fluster? 

Sarah Witney  29:31

Okay. 

Christina Martin  29:32

Okay, I'm gonna read you a couple questions and we'll see how the conversation unfolds. 

Sarah Witney  29:40

Okay, I love games. 

Christina Martin  29:42

Yeah, me too. Here's the first question. 

Sarah Witney  29:45

Okay. 

Christina Martin  29:46

If you could learn to communicate better with one group, humans or otherwise, which would you choose and why?

Sarah Witney  29:55

Otherwise.

Christina Martin  29:56

Otherwise. Yes. Are you done with communicating with humans?

Sarah Witney  30:02

Just have so much curiosity about all the other creatures.

Christina Martin  30:05

You do. Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  30:06

And love to know a little bit more about, you know, all their communications like, what is the tree saying and its roots to another tree. And, you know, geese when they're in a flock on their way south, you know. All that really interesting way that they communicate.

Christina Martin  30:36

Yeah, like what are they talking about as they spend hours and hours flying down south like, oh, can't wait to get to the beach. Crack a beer.

Sarah Witney  30:45

I often wonder a little bit about how human beings could communicate, you know, maybe a little bit more, honestly or compassionately. You know, I see all the work you're doing with your podcasts, I think it's really great. You know, letting people know about all these ways of experiencing the world or how other people, what they're doing with their lives. 

Christina Martin  31:22

Yeah, it's been just a complete privilege to get to share this space one on one with my guests. Songwriting for me was my attempt to learn how to communicate really difficult things. And the podcast as well, like I'm constantly learning and striving to be a better communicator and a better listener because that's not a skill that I was not born with. 

Sarah Witney  31:56

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  31:57

So it's an ongoing process, right, I think is worth pursuing.

Sarah Witney  32:03

So worth it. And, you know, social skills have been put on the backburner with the pandemic and I think we're realizing now how important they are.

Christina Martin  32:15

Absolutely. Well, particularly in preventing, communicating preventing disasters from happening. And wars. You know, I have a friend in the Bavaria. And he said something once to me, his name's Kai Kühnel, he said, you know, something along the lines of like international friendships prevent war. So it's really hard to go to war with people that you're friends with, that you have friendly relationships with that you can, you know, identify with or relate to, that you share coffee with. And I know there's all kinds of organizations around the world and individuals that are like, basically tapping into this idea that like, you know, once we get to know each other a little bit better, we can do better. We can have more peaceful respect. I know this podcast, you know, it's this one small way to practice. You know, kind of fostering friendships and communicating, learning how to talk about sometimes difficult things and bring light to situations. 

Sarah Witney  33:25

Yeah. And in this podcast, we've been talking with some of the things about nature. 

Christina Martin  33:34

That's right. 

Sarah Witney  33:35

It's nice to have part of your world be communicating with things other than humans.

Christina Martin  33:42

Yep. I agree. Sarah, in what way do you express to your friends how much you care about them? 

Sarah Witney  33:54

Food. 

Christina Martin  33:55

Yummy.

Sarah Witney  33:56

Food is always a nice way to express your care. You know, by sharing food and meals together, laughing together, listening, sharing stories. 

Christina Martin  34:10

Yep.

Sarah Witney  34:10

Playing games. 

Christina Martin  34:11

Yeah.

Sarah Witney  34:12

Like Fluster.

Christina Martin  34:13

Fluster. Perfect answer. Walker and Devon, I hope you're listening. I hope you like this. This is not premeditated.

Christina Martin  34:28

It's great. Let's go get our snowshoes so we can get on the trail.

Sarah Witney  34:32

Absolutely. This is so fun. You know what this feels like to me? This feels like being a little girl again and having like a playdate.

Christina Martin  34:50

I agree. You know, since the pandemic, I started to, any of my business meetings in the city, I usually ask people if they prefer to go for a walk instead of just sitting and talking. The pandemic has really challenged us to think about what are the small and big changes we can make in our day to day to just have a better quality of life, really.

Sarah Witney  35:20

And what is it that we really need.

Christina Martin  35:22

Yes. Versus what we want, or we think we need. We were talking about the little house at the head of the Peace Trail. 

Sarah Witney  35:37

Yeah, nobody lives there anymore. Seagull Foundation owns that land. 

Christina Martin  35:43

Okay. 

Sarah Witney  35:44

So that's owned by John and Bonnie. You know, John and Bonnie? 

Christina Martin  35:47

Yeah.

Sarah Witney  35:48

They own the Peace Hall too, right?

Christina Martin  35:50

Great pillars of the community. 

Sarah Witney  35:51

Yes. And yeah, so I had asked them at a certain point in my life, if I could clean that up and live in there, which I did for about a year before I bought this house.

Christina Martin  36:06

Nice. 

Sarah Witney  36:07

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  36:07

And you had to fix it up. Did you?

Sarah Witney  36:09

Oh, yeah. It was pretty rough. The raccoons and the porcupines and all that kind of stuff were living in there. 

Christina Martin  36:17

I'll go get my,

Sarah Witney  36:18

You'll get your snow shoes? 

Christina Martin  36:20

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  36:20

Okay. All right. Sounds like plan.

Christina Martin  36:30

My brother Stephen lived with addiction most of his adult life. And when he died, it was due to an opioid overdose, an accidental death. 

Sarah Witney  36:43

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  36:44

So he did not want to die. He, you know, he was just experimenting. He had been in recovery many times in his adult life. And addiction, you know, robbed him of his life and robbed him of his ability to be an artist, which was one of the big gifts that I believe he had, was you know, born with and worked on in his life. But of course, addiction and mental illness, robbed him of the ability to just practice it. And he had many other gifts too. He was such a loving, generous. I mean, it was hard not to love Stephen. You know, when you were with him, you could talk about serious things, but you would always end up laughing together. 

Sarah Witney  37:42

You must miss Stephen. How long has he been gone? 

Christina Martin  37:47

Stephen died in 2013. 

Sarah Witney  37:53

Okay. 

Christina Martin  37:53

So yeah, it's been a few years, but I mean.

Christina Martin  37:59

And yeah, nine years, I guess. We miss him. And, of course, I always think, you know, he was actually doing really well in his life and had made, I was just really proud of him. And he came to visit us in a house we live in now. And I envisioned us having more of those visits. And, you know, him being a regular visitor, he painted some of the rooms in our house when we just moved in. And I imagined him getting stronger and healthier over time, and maybe even having a healthy loving relationship because he'd had a few relationships in his life, but they were always kind of riddled with addiction and pain. And I felt like everyone deserves to have a reciprocal loving, healthy relationship, you know?

Sarah Witney  37:59

Nine.

Sarah Witney  38:56

Exactly. And perhaps we can still have that be a reality in our dreams. 

Christina Martin  39:09

Yes.

Sarah Witney  39:10

And our hopes in our heart that, you know, Stephen receives that kind of love and partakes in that kind of a decent exchange.

Christina Martin  39:27

I feel in a lot of ways whenever I do what I do, I do it because of him. I'm on a mission to stay healthy and take care of myself and practice my gift. He just would have loved this like it would have really inspired him I think too. I think nature can inspire you to stay healthy, be healthy, because you feel the benefits of it immediately, don't you? 

Sarah Witney  39:56

Yeah, you really do. You get your high from I think it's endorphins in the brain that you get from being outside and being around nature.

Christina Martin  40:11

That year that you spent living in that house, right at the head of the Peace trail, like how did that impact you at the time?

Sarah Witney  40:21

Well, it was a rebound year for me. So there was an end of a relationship. So there was a melancholy and healing. And, but you know, there's always a sweetness in those times too, because you get to come home to yourself. And to recreate yourself. And that's where I started into my relationship with Bob. 

Christina Martin  40:46

We like Bob, don't we?

Sarah Witney  40:47

Yeah. We love Bob. Okay, so we're gonna go in here. I think we should get our snow shoes on. 

Christina Martin  40:54

All right.

Christina Martin  41:00

Okay, so we just passed the, what we think is the sight of a pileated woodpecker. 

Sarah Witney  41:09

Yes. Drilling his holes.

Christina Martin  41:13

Drilling his holes, just really destroying. 

Sarah Witney  41:18

Finding food. 

Christina Martin  41:19

Finding food, right. I shouldn't say destroying. He's actually just hungry.

Sarah Witney  41:23

Yeah, and maybe it's reciprocal, right? Maybe it really helps the tree.

Christina Martin  41:30

Like fall apart. Decompose. Helps the forest. 

Sarah Witney  41:35

Bugs. You know, we need those birds that eat the bugs.

Christina Martin  41:39

Yeah. I want to see one of these giant woodpeckers. There are three. You said there are three different sizes? 

Sarah Witney  41:46

Yes, the little Downy, and the Hairy, and then the Pileated.

Christina Martin  41:51

So do you consider yourself a birder?

Sarah Witney  41:54

Yes, I am Birder. And I'm also a citizen scientist.

Christina Martin  42:00

Tell me more about what that means, Sarah? 

Sarah Witney  42:03

Well, if you're a citizen scientist, then you collect information and data. And then you give it to the www the big web. 

Christina Martin  42:16

Nice. 

Sarah Witney  42:17

It's a way of collecting data. If I was to go on a hike and see certain things I would make counts of what I saw. And then I would go to eBird.

Christina Martin  42:30

eBird?

Sarah Witney  42:30

Yes.

Christina Martin  42:32

I'll check it out.

Sarah Witney  42:33

And submit it. 

Christina Martin  42:34

Oh, cool. That's great. Citizen Scientist. This is part of the nature hike with Sarah Witney is learning about all the little special, intricate things in the forest that you may not realize are so important to the ecosystem. So what are we looking at here, Sarah?

Sarah Witney  42:59

Well, this old dead tree has become a dining room table for a squirrel and look at how they have taken apart all these cones. And they've been eating them all along here. They've been having a good old feast. I think it was a party.

Christina Martin  43:17

It looks like a bash. Absolutely.

Sarah Witney  43:23

And they know how to stash their food, squirrels. And then they know to go back when times are tough and survive off the stashes.

Christina Martin  43:35

Yeah, I know this because we have a pump organ on our porch. And that is where the squirrel stash their food. That's our fault though, for leaving the pump organ on the front porch. What could this be?

Sarah Witney  43:52

Well, they're a type of shelf mushroom when they're growing like that. But, it's a good thing. It's a healthy thing for a forest to have lots of mosses and fungis and ferns and all those different species. It shows that it's a mature forest when you've got that.

Christina Martin  44:16

Love it. Oh yeah, this is squirrels. I am seeing a lot of storm damage maybe here.

Sarah Witney  44:26

It is a bit of a natural occurrence. Forests go through cycles. So  they cycle from the soft woods into the hard woods. So some of the soft woods like the Balsam Fir and the Spruces and things, they only last a few decades and then they reach their climax and they'll fall down. But, the fallen tree provides lots of good stuff. Bears hibernate underneath roots like that on a fallen tree.

Christina Martin  45:03

So should we go closer? Or go in the opposite direction?

Christina Martin  45:14

Sarah and I have stopped on the trail because right in front of us is a beautiful squirrel that doesn't seem to mind that we're watching, staring at him eating a giant mushroom.

Sarah Witney  45:27

Yeah. Yeah, it's a hunk of fungus.

Christina Martin  45:30

He's noticed us. You've got binoculars and he's probably like, what is she doing? It was nice to witness someone in their natural habitat, having a good chow down on mushrooms.

Sarah Witney  45:44

Let's go closer and see the fungus and see if we can see his little teeth mark.

Christina Martin  45:47

Okay. There's like a million spores. 

Sarah Witney  45:53

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  45:54

And it's like a little cool sponge.

Sarah Witney  45:57

And is glowing in the light. Magical. Keep all those lovely organisms in our world. 

Christina Martin  46:05

Yeah, yeah. 

Sarah Witney  46:06

We are losing them with deforestation.

Christina Martin  46:10

Yeah. And a lot of them the fungal, I'm not sure what to call them. But, the fungal mushroom connections that are happening underground too, don't they? And that's an integral part of healthy forest. Is it not? And that's a way that, it's a form of communication cation? 

Sarah Witney  46:27

Yes. 

Christina Martin  46:28

That we don't want to rip apart. So yeah. 

Sarah Witney  46:34

It's an intelligence. And it's wonderful the way that plants in the woods, trees and whatnot, will look after one another with those communications. 

Christina Martin  46:48

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  46:49

Hey, you need some of this? Here you go.

Christina Martin  46:51

I gotta lend you the book, The Secret Life of Forests.

Sarah Witney  46:55

Secret Life of Forests. 

Christina Martin  46:57

You have some other books you recommend to our listeners?

Sarah Witney  46:59

That scientist Simard. 

Sarah Witney  46:59

The mother tree.

Christina Martin  46:59

I bought that book for my father in law.

Christina Martin  47:00

The mother tree. Yes. Everybody needs to buy that. I haven't read it yet, actually, because I'm waiting for Daniel to offer it to me to read. But I bought it for Daniel, my father in law. 

Sarah Witney  47:17

And perhaps we could look at forestry in the future where, you know, we still need to cut some wood and use trees for different things. But, perhaps we could think about leaving some of those mother trees around.

Christina Martin  47:32

The mother trees are integral when it comes to growing new trees because forests may not survive, especially long term if you don't have those big mother trees, communicating providing information and food.

Sarah Witney  47:49

They also help to prevent the devastation of fires, the devastation of all these weather extremes.

Christina Martin  48:00

Droughts. 

Sarah Witney  48:01

Droughts. 

Christina Martin  48:02

Mudslides.

Sarah Witney  48:05

Christina, we now have to climb over this tree.

Christina Martin  48:09

Okay. Got it. I also see a workaround. But I'll do that too.

Sarah Witney  48:19

Crows, you know, they'll collect shiny objects and bits and pieces. And yeah.

Christina Martin  48:27

They're also really smart. 

Sarah Witney  48:28

They're very clever. They've even figured out how they can drop a nut at an intersection, have a car run over it. And that will crack it open enough to get the meat out. That's pretty clever. As long as they don't get run over themselves by a car. But let's hope not.

Christina Martin  48:48

There's a crow reoccurring in my new album artwork, in the single artwork that I'm collaborating on with a brilliant artist, Nicole Aline Legault. And I'm so excited to share with my patreons but also the world, more of what she's been doing. And this crow, there's a lot of symbolism, obviously in the songs, but then we wanted to reflect that with the artwork as well. So there was that, you know, connecting force between the music and the visual art as well.

Sarah Witney  49:20

Yes, the crow does help to make contact to the human world from the animal world. A swamp area, a wetland area is full of life. It has so much to offer. And it's like the lungs of the planet. It cleans and breeds and we need them so much. So we really ought to be thinking about, you know, protecting our wetlands. 

Christina Martin  49:53

Yeah. 

Sarah Witney  49:54

And our swamp. 

Christina Martin  49:56

No more draining swamps. Oh, it looks like we're in the Black Forest now. This is a drastic change. Hemlock. 

Sarah Witney  50:15

And Chaga is very good for helping with inflammation. It's known to help people with cancer. It's a real good health tonic. So I've broken off some of that and made tea with it. 

Christina Martin  50:33

Nice. 

Sarah Witney  50:35

Thank you.

Christina Martin  50:36

Thank you, Birch. Thank you for the hike through the Witney wilderness.

Sarah Witney  50:46

Yes, we made it through snow in the woods. Now we're on the mud road.

Christina Martin  50:50

Walking back towards your house. 

Sarah Witney  50:52

Yep. 

Christina Martin  50:53

What did we see? We saw a lot of lichen. 

Sarah Witney  50:55

Yes. 

Christina Martin  50:56

We saw some old growth forest.

Sarah Witney  50:59

Yes. We saw a variety of things. Like a variety of trees. Not just one type of tree, but different species of trees at different ages.

Christina Martin  51:12

Heard some birds.

Sarah Witney  51:13

Yep.

Christina Martin  51:15

Heard some birds. Saw a squirrel. We never saw the yellow-bellied sapsucker peppered tree. 

Sarah Witney  51:27

Yeah, so we're gonna keep looking along the road here and I'll see if I can find one but the trunk of a tree that has lines of holes where they make their holes so that the sap can be licked out by them. And often they'll make the holes and come back a little later. And sometimes that sap Christina, it'll ferment. And that can cause the yellow-bellied sapsucker to be drunk. 

Christina Martin  52:01

Nice. That must be fun. So tell us how our listeners can find out more about the Friends of the Pugwash Estuary. 

Sarah Witney  52:17

Which can be heard as FOPE. 

Christina Martin  52:20

FOPE?

Sarah Witney  52:21

Yeah, F O P E. Friends of the Pugwash Estuary. 

Christina Martin  52:25

Yep. 

Sarah Witney  52:25

We love to get new members and we like to pick some projects and do some things on the Estuary. We have a property on Doherty Creek, which has a house on it. And that's where you can park for the trails. That's where we ran into each other the last time. 

Christina Martin  52:49

Yep. A couple of times. It's been great. And I'm a member. I signed up. I encourage anybody who interested in supporting the conservation of forest, even if you don't live here, but maybe  you're traveling in Atlantic Canada, and you want to stop by and support and visit this beautiful piece of land that you are a member of. So what's the website?

Sarah Witney  53:13

Well, you just have to go on the Friends of the Pugwash Estuary, and that will lead you to everything that you need. 

Christina Martin  53:23

Yep. 

Sarah Witney  53:23

And we have monthly meetings and we have flotillas in the summer on the water.

Christina Martin  53:32

You do guided hikes.

Sarah Witney  53:34

Mm hmm. And we are trying to get students sometimes hired to do all kinds of research and we really want to have there be an environmental group in Pugwash that highlights the importance of the wilderness.

Christina Martin  53:59

Yeah. Good luck with everything that you're passionate about, continued strength and passion and good health to allow you to do the important work that you do in educating people like me.

Sarah Witney  54:15

And Christina.

Christina Martin  54:16

Yeah?

Sarah Witney  54:17

I've got something for you.

Christina Martin  54:18

Oh, surprises!

Sarah Witney  54:22

For your dreams and your passions. 

Christina Martin  54:24

Oh, fun. 

Sarah Witney  54:25

So that's for Dale. 

Christina Martin  54:27

Oh my goodness. Thank you so much.

Sarah Witney  54:29

And here's an eagle feather for you.

Christina Martin  54:33

It's so beautiful.

Sarah Witney  54:34

And it's ready to hang. I got it off of the river when I was kayaking. And I've blessed it and put some special beads and things on it. And you can think of something that is important to you, a dream. Or.

Christina Martin  54:54

Maybe my brother Stephen.

Sarah Witney  54:55

Maybe for your brother Stephen and you can hang it in the woods on the tree in a special place.

Christina Martin  55:01

Oh, can I give you a hug? 

Sarah Witney  55:02

Yeah. 

Christina Martin  55:03

Thank you, Sarah. This is beautiful. You're beautiful. This has really been a special day.

Heartbeat Hotline  55:10

(Theme song - Talk About It - playing in background) Welcome to the Heartbeat Hotline 1-902-669-4769. I'm the host of A Chat with Heart podcast, Christina Martin, and I'm so excited you called. Leave me your question, suggestion for the podcast, or a comment about this episode. Please be aware your message may be used on the podcast and social media. Tell me your name, where you're calling from. And it's also fine, if you want to remain anonymous. Thanks for listening. Have a great fucking day.

Christina Martin  55:16

A Chat with Heart - produced and written by me, Christina Martin. Co-produced and engineered by Dale Murray. Check out Dale's website dalemurray.ca. The podcast theme song Talk About It, was written by me and recorded by Dale Murray. You can find it on all the places you stream music. Production plans for this podcast and Season One are supported by the Province of Nova Scotia's Women in Business Implementation Fund, and the Creative Industries Fund. Special thanks to Terrence Taylor, for mentoring me on hosting this podcast and really digging deep with me on my production plans for season one, which let's be honest, Terrence, ended up being more like well needed psychotherapy for me. To Christel Seeberger at Sensory Friendly Solutions, thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me learn how to be a more inclusive, accessible, and sensory friendly human. Visit my Patreon page to become a monthly or yearly supporter of this podcast and my music endeavors. If you're new to Patreon, it's a membership platform that helps creators get paid. Sign up at patreon.com/ChristinaMartin. For this to be a massive success and reach seven billion people, I need you to share, rate, leave a review, and subscribe to A Chat with Heart on all the places you listen to podcasts. Wishing you, my little heartbeats, a great day.