Hitomi Oba - Part 3

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 158: Hitomi Oba - Part 3

In this week’s episode, we continue to talk to Hitomi Oba about balancing her time between motherhood and her career, her relationship with improvisation and composition, and working with students and collaborators. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Hitomi Oba, check her out here: https://www.hitomioba.com/. This episode was originally recorded in December 2023.

This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors, like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano),  as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/episodes/17156275

Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason

Chapters

• 0:22 In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Hitomi Oba, who we spoke to in December 2023.
• 0:30 The kid's life is enhanced by having parents who do other things. I don't think it's necessarily great for a kid to be...they want to feel focused on; they have to feel like they're the center of your life. There's no question that helps them be...
• 2:05 Have you found that it has affected the topics that interest you as a composer or as a performer, the pieces you pick up, what you do in your music making, as opposed to just making you feel desperately good at time management.
• 6:03 Could you talk about fusing composition and performance? Does integrating improvisation into your compositions play a part in this? When you include space for improvisation in your works, how much freedom do you give your performers?
• 11:30 Do you find any specific things or backgrounds or anything are more successful than others, or is it really just kind of random?

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00

[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists sponsored by a grant from the California Arts Council. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Hitomi Oba, who we spoke to in December 2023. [INTRO MUSIC ENDS] The kid's life is enhanced by having parents who do other things. I don't think it's necessarily great for a kid to be...they want to feel focused on; they have to feel like they're the center of your life. There's no question that helps them be balanced as their ego develops, and yet, at the same time, you know, if one has nothing else to focus on, as the adult that can become problematic too.

Hitomi Oba  00:58

Absolutely and for them to see that you have other focuses and other pillars in your life. 

Nanette McGuinness  01:03

Yes, exactly!

Hitomi Oba  01:03

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I think, you know, like, when we talk about representation, it's like, representation wise, like I'm the person they see. Like, yeah, no, I've been thinking about too. It's been, it's been tricky. Like, I had a number of nights recently where I was out every night, you know. So I was not there for bedtime, and, you know, the younger one was starting to get a little bit, you know, clingy. 

Nanette McGuinness  01:26

Antsy. Yeah. 

Hitomi Oba  01:26

Yeah, definitely. It was starting to see that I also been out of town prior to that, you know, quite a bit recently. So they were starting to get a little bit, yeah, like, a little more clingy, you know. And just, you know, mommy... really wanting mommy, but at the same time, you know, like my older one, who's starting to understand, to understand things, where she'd be like, "Oh, mommy, like, I, I saw your video."

Nanette McGuinness  01:40

[laughs] 

Hitomi Oba  01:44

And then she's like, you know, she'll recognize that it's us immediately and she will tell her teachers, like, "Mommy is in a concert," 

Nanette McGuinness  01:52

That's so cool! 

Hitomi Oba  01:53

And so, like she, she's starting to get that, like, there are, there's a world outside of our house, you know, too. So I'm hoping, as they get older, they'll they'll see that more. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  02:05

Have you found that it has affected the topics that interest you as a composer or as a performer, the pieces you pick up, what you do in your music making, as opposed to just making you feel desperately good at time management.

Hitomi Oba  02:20

[laughs] That is such a great question. That's such a good question. Yeah, I've been thinking about this more as well. Part of it's like, cognitively, like, you know, like, philosophically, like, "What does this mean?" You know, especially when I'm writing music, because that's where the more, like, the you know, extra musical ideas come into play. But I think so, like, even more at a, like, more instinctive emotional level, like, for instance, improvisation wise, I was talking like being more centered, and, you know, my values and priorities becoming a little more solidified. I think that's given me a lot of center. Just like, in terms of musical...what is it? It's not confidence, it's like musical stability a little bit more too. So I think I was, you know, like if there were inhibitions, you know, like maybe mental inhibitions or emotional inhibitions that might have been there before, I feel a little bit stronger now and a little bit more centered to be like, yeah, those like, really don't matter, you know, even if I knew even them beforehand, even if I recognized them beforehand, you know, before I had kids in my head, it was still, like, it was still very difficult to kind of, like, shoo them away.

Nanette McGuinness  03:28

Push through. 

Hitomi Oba  03:29

Push through, yeah. But now I feel like, because I have a stronger center and my priorities, you know, I've had to reevaluate them so many times, you know, and just like, what's important is a lot clearer to me now, you know, in terms of, like, being a person on this earth. [laughs] I think it translates to being a lot more sure in terms of my musical, you know, 

Nanette McGuinness  03:51

Inspiration? 

Hitomi Oba  03:52

Inspiration, yeah, mostly, yeah, creation, and especially for improvising, I think, but also for composing, you know, as a performer, yeah, I think it mostly translates to, like, creating, creating, so, you know, improvising, composing,

Nanette McGuinness  04:09

The ability to play. 

Hitomi Oba  04:11

Yeah, absolutely, 

Nanette McGuinness  04:12

That's now in your life. And that ability to play is a big part of improvising, just kind of chasing an idea and seeing... 

Hitomi Oba  04:19

Absolutely. 

Nanette McGuinness  04:19

the curiosity of seeing where it might lead. 

Hitomi Oba  04:22

Yeah! Like, yeah, exactly. I think I was gonna say, yeah. I was thinking about this as well. Curiosity is so big. We talked about, like, you know, our job is to be imaginative, you know. And for imagination, we need curiosity. So I think, like, I keep thinking of the word, like, "wonder." Wonder, you know, since having kids, and there's just like, so much more wonder in this, you know, in my space now, so much more wonder. Yeah, and just like, unbridled wonder. And, you know, like seeing these people act on it so impulsively all the time is, like, very inspiring. 

Nanette McGuinness  04:53

You know, wonder is a very cool word, because we wonder at the same time, something is a wonder, you know, it has that curiosity and amazement all in one. 

Hitomi Oba  04:51

So people whose job it is to be creative and to be imaginative, like being around young. Children all the time is a huge source of inspiration. 

Nanette McGuinness  04:53

[laughs] 

Hitomi Oba  05:15

Right! And then the wonderful, which is just kind of like, a very positive, very positive inspiring word, yeah.

Nanette McGuinness  05:23

We could talk about this forever, as far as I'm concerned.

Hitomi Oba  05:27

It's funny though, you know, when I was pregnant, I was trying to find as many sources as possible about musician parents, you know, obviously trying to ask whoever I knew. But also, there was a podcast called Midnight...Midnight Lightning? I don't know, something like that, where someone, this woman, interviews a bunch of professional musicians who are also moms.

Nanette McGuinness  05:46

Oh, wow! 

Hitomi Oba  05:47

Yeah, a lot of them were in the pop music sphere. 

Nanette McGuinness  05:49

Yeah. 

Hitomi Oba  05:50

But it was still like I was, you know, grasping at everything. So yeah, I've been trying to share my experiences more with younger people who are, you know, thinking of having children.

Nanette McGuinness  06:00

That's so great! Could you talk about fusing composition and performance? Does integrating improvisation into your compositions play a part in this? When you include space for improvisation in your works, how much freedom do you give your performers?

Hitomi Oba  06:19

Yeah, that's, that's a that's a great question too, and it's something that I'm trying to face all the time in from different facets. So I feel like this is going to be an ongoing topic, you know, as long as I make music, and for a lot of, a lot of fellow improviser performers as well. So maybe the past like, 10 years or so, I've been trying to examine experiment with these two facets and how they relate with each other more than I used to before. It was kind of just like, try to do this, you know, try to improvise and try to compose. But now I feel like I have a little bit more of a, you know, I'm able to step back a little bit and think about how they relate to each other a little bit more. And so, you know, this might be in terms of, like, how one feeds another. Might be how maybe one medium might extend the ideas and visions of another, you know, using it as an enhancer, or, you know, trying to send it on a different trajectory. So I think, in particular, you know, obviously I think about composition and improvisation all the time because, you know, as a lot of people say, it's spontaneous at composition. So a lot of the things I learn about or gain insight from composition, you know, trying to apply to improvisation as well, but going the other direction is what I've kind of been trying to apply more consciously, improvisation into my pre-composed, you know, music. 

Nanette McGuinness  07:40

Right. 

Hitomi Oba  07:40

And I think one of the larger focuses has been trying to integrate things that are unique to my improvisatory language, in particular, like motion, you know, pacing, momentum, all these things that have to do with time, moving through time. Because I think I was not approaching pre composed music in the same way I was approaching time, how things move through time and improvisation. Because in improvisation, you know, I was very aware of time and pacing, you know, and how things would unravel, you know, as I went forward in time. So, yeah, momentum, ebb and flow, you know, how gestures move through space and time. Those are the things I've been trying to see if I can translate more into pre-composed music now, so, you know, yeah, you know, in some cases I might just think about, you know, like, imagine it. In some cases, I've literally, like, transcribed certain, you know, the timings of things of my improvisations, to see how, you know, how it was manifesting and how that might apply. Yeah, so that's been exciting, and there are a lot of ways to approach it, for sure. So I think there are still so many ways to integrate that. I've also, you know, been interested in incorporating, like, indeterminacy, you know, aleatory, you know, improvisation into into my pre-composed music, and that...how I do that really depends on the players and collaborators with whom I'm working. And you know what the desired result or the purpose might be. I feel like there are so many situations where the musical result can benefit from some degree of indeterminacy, you know? So not just a conceptual or like practical thing, but also, like in terms of the result, it might enhance it greatly, right? So even if it's not straight up, like improvisation, you know, where the the player is contributing most, it can be in so many various degrees. And I know a lot of people are experimenting with this. So, yeah, I've been, you know, experimenting with parameters. You know, it's nice having students who are open to experimenting as well. 

Nanette McGuinness  09:50

[laughs] 

Hitomi Oba  09:50

You know, they're open to a lot of my improv games.

Nanette McGuinness  09:54

AKA guinea pigs.

Hitomi Oba  09:55

Guinea pigs, very willing and enthusiastic guinea pigs. So yeah! Just like, to what degree, how do I communicate these parameters, you know, how do I elicit certain responses? So this has been kind of exciting thing, experimenting lots of like, obviously, the verbal portion, you know, verbal element of that, you know, how do I use words to try to elicit different kinds of responses? And some, you know, visual representations as well, to try to, yeah, experiment with and how people respond based on their training and background is very different as well, right? 

Nanette McGuinness  10:27

Oh yeah! 

Hitomi Oba  10:29

With whom does what work? Is it always a big question, but I feel like a lot of the situations I'm in have been conducive to collaboration, so getting to know who you're writing for, right? In the new music world and in the jazz world as well, seems to be more and more priority, right? So it's not just that you're writing, what, a string trio? But you're writing for specific players who are going to premiere, you know. So that that is such a rich, you know, place to play with these kinds of ideas, I think. Yeah! So it's an ongoing experimentation. But I think more and more people are open to it. It seems like as well in both the, you know, heavily improvisatory field, also in the more heavily pre-notated field of players. So, yeah, it's an ongoing process for me.

Nanette McGuinness  11:19

Yeah, it kind of goes in waves. The interest in aleatory and chance, if you want to put it in classical music, there are definite waves in it. Do you find any specific things or backgrounds or anything are more successful than others, or is it really just kind of random? 

Hitomi Oba  11:40

You know, again, it depends on the players. Because I might say, like, you know, some of the jazz-trained people, in some cases are, you know, might struggle to engage with non-traditional forms of improvisation, you know, in some cases, right? So I think it really depends on the players, you know, for me to say, All right, this is, you know, a cell of material. And then I want you to, you know, do this in this kind of way, might be very challenging for some people, right? And it might take some like, you know, training to kind of break down their defaults or preconceived notions about what improvisation is, for instance. So it's not necessarily that, you know, like, yeah, it's really hard to say. It depends on the I can't break it down by genre, necessarily, or even age, you know, or a generation. It seems like, yeah, you mentioned it comes in waves. So some people might have engaged with it more in the past, for some people, but in general, if I can, you know, I've been lucky to be able to collaborate with people who are open, at least to trying it and, you know, undaunted if they don't get it at first. [laughs] You know, I faced frustrations with some students, you know, in some occasions. But the luxury there is that we have a long period of time to work over it, right? You're in academia, yeah, so, you know, a quarter is a very long time. So that's been illuminating for me too, right? In terms of like, Oh, if someone's coming from this kind of, you know, mental, you know, training, then how can we kind of introduce these other ideas and such.

Nanette McGuinness  13:16

Right, right.

Nanette McGuinness  13:17

[OUTRO MUSIC] Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest, Hitomi Oba, for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button, and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media, and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax deductible donation, please visit us at E4TT.org. This podcast is made possible in part by a grant from the California Arts Council and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to co-producer and audio engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure."