FGM Turns 200! with Dale Tsang - Part 2

For Good Measure, by Ensemble for These Times (E4TT)
Episode 205: FGM Turns 200! with Dale Tsang - Part 2

Looking for a way to listen to diverse creators and to support equity in the arts? Tune in weekly to For Good Measure!

In this week's episode, we continue FGM Turns 200!, a mini-series where we talk to Ensemble for These Times' members and past guest artists. Today, we continue our conversation with E4TT's Emerita pianist Dale Tsang, who we spoke to in June 2025. If you enjoyed today’s conversation and want to know more about Dale Tsang, check her out here: https://daletsang.com/.

This podcast is made possible by grants from the California Arts Council, SF Arts Commission, Grants for the Arts, and generous donors like you. Want to support For Good Measure and E4TT? Make a tax-deductible donation or sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to the podcast!

Intro music: “Trifolium” by Gabriela Ortiz, performed by E4TT (Ilana Blumberg, violin; Abigail Monroe, cello; Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Below the Surface: Music by Women Composers,” January 29, 2022
Outro music: “Lake Turkana” by Marcus Norris, performed by E4TT (Margaret Halbig, piano), as part of “Alchemy,” October 15, 2021

Transcription courtesy of Otter.ai.
Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1903729/episodes/19072162

Co-Producer, Host, and E4TT co-founder: Nanette McGuinness
Co-Producer and Audio Engineer: Stephanie M. Neumann
Podcast Cover Art: Brennan Stokes
Interns: Renata Volchinskaya, Sam Mason, Christy Xu

Transcript

Nanette McGuinness  00:00

[INTRO MUSIC] Welcome to For Good Measure, an interview series celebrating diverse composers and other creative artists. I'm Nanette McGuinness, Artistic Executive Director of Ensemble for These Times. In this week's episode, we continue our conversation with Dale Tsang.

Nanette McGuinness  00:28

Speaking of David, we kind of glossed over the fact that you started with the group playing his music for the JMPP, and in a sense, liked his music so much you ended up marrying him, right?

Dale Tsang  00:39

Well, I liked his music so much that I, you know, I, I asked him for all the solo piano pieces, and he sent them to me. And then we just, we did a lot of just chatting about, especially solo piano music and writing for piano. And he said he used to hate getting my emails, because I would point out every little little error in the score that, you know, this makes sense, you know, you this should be a sharp, not a flat, and this is in the wrong octave. And he just person's exasperating. But then he realized that I was keeping him honest too, yes, and I knew a lot more about really playing these master works than he did. You know, he composes them, and he's a great pianist himself, but with arthritis, you know, he doesn't play as much anymore, but he's never played at the level that I do. So Right? It's really nice that, you know, yeah, we work together really well, but, yeah, but that definitely led to, I really like this person. So yes, we got married during the pandemic, and it's been a great, yeah, really great partnership.

Nanette McGuinness  01:42

Yeah, yeah, no, it's been great watching that. And yet it's funny how in just like every traditional rom com, irritation often is the sign of attraction. [laughs]

Dale Tsang  01:55

It's possible, I don't think he ever irritated me. No.. no I don't think so. I just thought he was a really unique person, very intelligent, very musical, very funny. And, you know, yeah, just a great guy.

Nanette McGuinness  02:11

I can remember at least one point his commenting on to me that you had asked him to write out a section that you know that that he is sort of, I'm going to put words in his mouth that you had sort of cheated. He had cheated a little bit by...

Dale Tsang  02:23

[laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  02:23

...you know, and that you were like, saying, you know, finish your job here, basically. And he appreciated that, and the piece was that much better for it, although harder to play. [laughs]

Dale Tsang  02:34

Yeah. That's okay... yeah, I think that's one of the things he laughs about... he writes things for me, and I'll play through it, and I'll say this is great, but this could actually be harder here because...

Nanette McGuinness  02:46

[laughs]

Dale Tsang  02:46

...especially if you're ending the piece this way, it's got to cap everything. And so yeah, he finds that amusing...

Nanette McGuinness  02:47

Yeah, yeah.

Dale Tsang  02:48

...yeah it's too easy. [laughing]

Nanette McGuinness  02:53

Yeah, I think he does well I do in any case, you know. But... So, this interview isn't going to air immediately, but tell us about, if you feel like it, what you have coming up that might be interesting to share.

Dale Tsang  03:09

Oh, hmm... let's see. Well, the Call for Scores is, I think, the most exciting thing that I that I do each year. I just really think it's a great, a great thing to do. So we do, we go through the process of receiving the scores and reviewing those. So that takes, for me, it takes a lot of time because I actually play all of them. And I know I don't have to, but it's it makes a difference if I actually have them under my hands and see what they feel like, and then, and then, and then there's a break time when I'm I do a lot of gigs. I do a lot of choral accompanying, and a lot of accompanying other instrumentalists and singers and chamber music, and a lot of things happen. And then competition adjudication, and I teach classes, and I teach my students. Yeah, it's a lot of other things that happen before the actual Call for Scores concert happens, and that won't be until March.

Nanette McGuinness  04:07

March, yeah.

Dale Tsang  04:08

2026... but yeah, I think that's kind of the thing that I'm most excited about, is getting the new scores. Get to see, see the new stuff that people are coming up with.

Nanette McGuinness  04:17

I'm really excited about that too. I'm glad you wanted to do it, then that you brought up the idea, and we're already getting queries. We've been getting queries as soon as the press release went out.

Dale Tsang  04:27

Good, yeah, I think I was a little concerned... for solo piano is easy, because a lot of people just naturally write for solo piano...

Nanette McGuinness  04:35

Yeah.

Dale Tsang  04:36

...the easy instrument to just compose on. And I so I wasn't sure with piano four-hands, if there would be a lot of entries, but it sounds like there's a lot of interest, so that's great.

Nanette McGuinness  04:45

So far, fingers crossed. I mean, the window is July 1, so by time this airs, we will have already had the call and had the judging and everything. But so far, I think I've gotten two or three. Three, maybe four, queries, one or two people sending in an entry. Am I having to refund their fee or tell them that the window isn't open yet, and a couple of people asking for the fee waiver? So I would say the interest is equal, or maybe slightly less, but equal to other years. Okay? I too, was worried, because I've mentioned to a couple of my composer friends that were doing, you know, piano four-hands, and they've been like, oh, I don't really write for that so... [laughs]

Dale Tsang  05:32

Right. Yeah, yeah, and that's valid, you know, we wouldn't, yeah, we probably wouldn't get entries from as many composers as we would with solo piano

Nanette McGuinness  05:41

Right.

Dale Tsang  05:42

I feel like we... Yeah, it needs to. It's nice to just have a change of pace. But then there's, it's piano for hands is a unique instrumentation too. I think it's, yeah, it's, it's really fun to listen to and fun to watch and fun to explore. So I think, I think people will like it in the end, even though it's a maybe a slightly harder project to undertake for...

Nanette McGuinness  06:07

Oh, yeah.

Dale Tsang  06:07

...composers [laughs] so...

Nanette McGuinness  06:10

But it's still exciting and good to have, as you said, a change of pace.

Dale Tsang  06:13

Yeah.

Nanette McGuinness  06:14

One composer actually asked me if we would take piano six-hands. I can't remember...

Dale Tsang  06:19

Right yeah! And I think we said that was fine, yeah, it's can't do more than that on one piano.

Nanette McGuinness  06:24

[laughs]

Dale Tsang  06:26

Get really skinny people... And then we thought about two piano stuff, but I think not this time that really limits the venues that where you can perform them, right? Because not everybody has two pianos that are compatible with each other.

Nanette McGuinness  06:42

Right. I mean, I'm... I continue to be open to future variations

Dale Tsang  06:48

Yeah. Well, we'll see how this one goes. If there's a lot of interest and people keep saying, but, but what about, but what about two pianos? Then, then we'll think about it. 

Nanette McGuinness  06:56

It could be really good, and doing it limited this way. I mean, you, I'm sure remember our first Call for Scores...

Dale Tsang  07:05

Oh yeah [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  07:05

...when we rebranded the group. Oh, my gosh...

Dale Tsang  07:05

We didn't know what we were doing, that was a little scary. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  07:11

Yeah, I think we had, like, a six week window, or a two month window. We got, what, 300 scores.

Dale Tsang  07:17

Yeah.

Nanette McGuinness  07:17

We drowned, and we ended up making, what, a three year series to try and take the best one.

Dale Tsang  07:26

Well there's so much good stuff. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  07:27

[laughs]

Dale Tsang  07:27

...we also... it was for any instrumentation with, right, soprano, cello and piano. So it could be solo cello, or it could be soprano and piano and or, yeah, it was just wide open of a field out there. So yeah.

Nanette McGuinness  07:41

That was fun, and we got lots of good stuff, but we... we learned. [laughs] 

Dale Tsang  07:43

Yeah we learned. Keep it a little simpler, keep a little shorter. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  07:49

Yeah, and I mean, the group does other calls for scores. We have a collaboration with Luna Composition Labs, with their alums. We're just starting the second two year collaboration with them for their 10th Anniversary celebration. And we also not quite a call for scores, but we do a competition with the TAC department at the SF Conservatory of Music as part of our annual big commissions concert. So we... we do it in various different ways, but in each case, the actual either competition or call is restricted. [laughs]

Dale Tsang  08:23

Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  08:25

So that we don't drown again.

Dale Tsang  08:27

That's right, that's right.

Nanette McGuinness  08:29

yeah

Dale Tsang  08:29

Because there's always the next year, right? If something doesn't work out this year and someone needs to a little more time next year, there will be another...

Nanette McGuinness  08:36

yeah

Dale Tsang  08:36

...opportunity.

Nanette McGuinness  08:37

Exactly. Well, this is really great. Is there anything else you want to tell the folks out there listening in podcast land?

Dale Tsang  08:45

I guess the big one is just to keep an open mind about new music. I think that it's can be a hard sell, because so much you know, there's so much new music out there, and you just never know what you're going to get. Because if you go to a concert, it's going to be buck you just know. You know, even if you don't know that piece, you know kind of, you know the the tenor of the performance and and you're you have a shared experience from the past, right? So with new music, you know, not only do you not know, maybe the performer, you most likely won't know the composer. You won't know their style. You won't know you know their their how they tell a story you know the other whole so it's it's a much harder sell, and especially these days, it feels like people are more interested in experiences, about themselves in the music, which is great, but so you're not guaranteed that in a new music concert. So yeah, so you really kind of have to take a chance, but do take a chance and and especially with an organization like E4TT, where it's curated, right? The the people that have picked the music actually know what they're doing. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  10:01

[laughs] hope so...

Dale Tsang  10:02

[laughing] ...you trust the process, and if you go to the concert, most likely, you know, enjoy at least some of it, because it's, it's been, you know, musicians have decided, okay, this is worth performing, right? So, yeah...

Nanette McGuinness  10:15

Yeah, yeah, no that's a wonderful, wonderful plea and accurate, and it's part of why we do a variety of pieces. You know, we don't just do three pieces on a concert.

Dale Tsang  10:25

Right.

Nanette McGuinness  10:26

The variety is there so that they'll get to hear more people in one shot, but also they'll have a bigger chance of liking some of the music. [laughs]

Dale Tsang  10:34

Yeah, yeah. And all, like all, I think all of the concerts.... never we... There are never concerts that are just one composer, right?

Nanette McGuinness  10:42

No.

Dale Tsang  10:43

So, yeah, so it's likely that maybe one of the composers you won't like as much, but, yeah, but that's kind of how, you know, like, if you go to a new, new cuisine restaurant, you're probably not going to like all the food, but, you know, give it all a shot, you know. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  10:58

Yeah, and there may be something that you just adore, right? [laughs]

Dale Tsang  11:01

Yeah, well, and you get to tickle your palette and learn something new, right? That's, I think that's...

Nanette McGuinness  11:05

Yeah, great analogy.

Dale Tsang  11:07

Yeah, a major, a major thing in life is to try try new things. [laughs]

Nanette McGuinness  11:11

Yeah, curiosity and trying new things keeps us alive and young, right?

Dale Tsang  11:16

Right, yeah, and intelligent, right, keeps your mind expanding. I think that's...

Nanette McGuinness  11:22

[laughs] No dying brain cells, right?

Dale Tsang  11:24

That's right.

Nanette McGuinness  11:25

Yeah, great. Well, thank you so much for doing this interview and joining us and playing with us each season, for the calls.

Dale Tsang  11:32

Yes, thank you.

Nanette McGuinness  11:36

Thank you for listening to For Good Measure, and a special thank you to our guest, Dale Tsang, for joining us today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to our podcast by clicking on the subscribe button and support us by sharing it with your friends, posting about it on social media and leaving us a rating and a review. To learn more about E4TT, our concert season online and in the Bay Area, or to make a tax-deductible donation, please visit us at www.E4TT.org. This podcast is made possible by grants from the California Arts Council, the San Francisco Arts Commission, Grants for the Arts, and generous donors like you. For Good Measure is produced by Nanette McGuinness and Ensemble for These Times, and design by Brennan Stokes, with special thanks to Co-producer and Audio Engineer Stephanie M. Neumann. Remember to keep supporting equity in the arts and tune in next week "for good measure." [OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]