The Productive Summer Garden: Growing More Food with Stephanie Hafferty

Food prices may be rising, but growing your own needn’t be difficult.

In this episode of the Loving Your Garden podcast, Rod Whiting and horticulturist John Stirland are joined by kitchen gardener and food writer Stephanie Hafferty, author of The Productive Garden.

Stephanie shares her advice on getting started with growing your own food, the easiest crops for beginners, why mistakes are part of the learning process, and how to make the most of even the smallest growing spaces. The discussion also covers succession sowing, preserving harvests, peat-free compost, natural approaches to pests and disease, and what to sow now for crops later in the year.

Whether you have a large vegetable plot, a few raised beds, or simply some pots on a balcony, this episode is packed with practical ideas to help you grow more food and enjoy greater success in the garden.

Stephanie's website:
https://nodighome.com/

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Transcript

Speaker 1  •  00:00
Hello and welcome to Loving Your Garden, better gardening podcast. I'm Rod Whiting, a warm, very warm welcome today to our resident horticulturist John Stern. Hello John. It is rather warm, yes, but it's fine. And hello to our guest this month, kitchen gardener and garden food writer, Stephanie Hafferty. Hello Stephanie, lovely to see you. 

Speaker 2  •  00:20
Hello, lovely to be here. 

Speaker 1  •  00:23
Steph, just tell us, give us a very brief biog as to who you are and what you do. And I guess a lot of people will know who you are, but just for the benefit of those who don't. 

Speaker 2  •  00:31
So I'm an edible gardener. I specialise in growing plants that you can eat year round and also homesteading skills. So what you can do with them other than making food, such as making house cleaners or products for your skin and dyes as in colouring fabric, not murdering anybody. And I'm also I'm a writer. So I write for magazines and I've just published my third book. 

Speaker 1  •  01:02
Yes. The Productive Garden. I won't get you to hold a copy of it up because it all goes blurry thanks to AI. But the productive garden, I think, is something that actually you've picked just the right time. Food's getting very expensive now. I think we're all starting to see and embrace the idea of being able to grow our own food because it's not that difficult, is it? 

Speaker 2  •  01:24
It depends what you're growing. So some things are really easy and some things aren't. And also it depends on the circumstances you are in and how much time you've got. But generally speaking, it is something that we all can do if we've got somewhere to grow something. The main thing is knowing what each plant needs and the kind of rhythms of that plant's life cycle. And then it's fairly easy. And there's always going to be strange occurrences. But that's what makes it more exciting. 

Speaker 3  •  01:59
Totally. And one of the first things, of course, is what the plants require is, I think, to know the soil, to know your soil and the pH for a start, whether it's acid or alkaline, because if you know your soil, then you know probably what's in it to start with. 

Speaker 2  •  02:17
So I've got two polytunnels and it's about half an acre, but that includes the footprint of the house and a driveway. Although I'm growing veg on the driveway as well because of the food prices going up. I'm growing more things in pots in places where I didn't grow veg last year. But, yeah, everything I do and everything I write about and everything I teach, because I also teach how to grow food. It's all entirely using natural methods. 

Speaker 1  •  02:47
Stephanie, should we start with the basics then? I mean, you've mentioned that it depends on what you're growing and, you know, as to how difficult is the kind of soil you've got. John's mentioned soil types. For somebody who is coming into this and thinking, yeah, I would love to grow my own. I would just love to do it. But I just don't have the confidence. Give me a quick get started brochure just to how we should approach this. 

Speaker 2  •  03:15
Well, obviously, the first thing that you do is either buy my book or get it out of the library. And that would be a great resource. That's a given. I think the most important thing if you're starting new is to start small. So start with one bed or a few pots. My daughter grows in pots on a balcony in London, for example. But if you start with one bed or just a couple of beds and then you can do those really well, keep them as weed free as is needed. Keep the soil well mulched, well fed. And also you can keep on top of picking, harvesting, succession or sowing, all the things that means you can just keep cropping through the year. And that's going to bring so much joy and as well as lovely food to the kitchen that you'll be likely to keep going and feel, you know, build up your confidence and build up your experience. I've been doing this for ages. So when I moved here, I already had quite a bit of experience, but it all did start off one bed at a time. I did one bed, got that sorted, went on to the next one. And I think that sometimes with a lot of the social media and TV as well, there's this bit of instant gardening kind of promoted. And people feel they have to go gung ho and immediately create like a self-sufficient paradise. And often that can just leave you overwhelmed with weeds. You haven't got enough time. The weather's really hot, like it's going to be this week and it's not really gardening weather. Whatever the reasons are. And then people get demoralised and give up. So start small and grow what you want to eat. Grow things that are lovely to you. Don't feel you have to grow something because it's trendy or because it's the thing to do. 

Speaker 1  •  05:14
John, the things to start with, what would you, for people who are starting out, what are the best? What are the ideal things to start with? 

Speaker 3  •  05:22
Simple things like, particularly in summer, simple things like lettuce, cut and come again. Cut and come again lettuce. This year I've grown all year round, which is a butterhead lettuce. And I've found that when you put it in the kitchen and clean it, it's full of slugs and things like that. The cut and come again lettuce has been so simple. It's been so clean. And I shall carry on using the cut and come again. And the taste of the modern varieties now is really, really good. So those sort of things. If you like radishes, they're quite simple to grow. Although this year, mine haven't bulked up at all and I'm about to throw them away. But they go in the compost heap. So, you know, you're always, even if they don't work, you're always putting them somewhere. They're all going to get used again. I've grown a few new potatoes. I only grow new potatoes because of blight now and, you know, the conditions that we get. So those sort of things are great to grow. When you do put your fork in and pick those first potatoes up, even if it's only about seven or eight, it's fantastic. It really is. 

Speaker 1  •  06:35
Yeah, Stephanie, I mean, going back to when you started, that feeling. I mean, I've not been doing it long myself. And I've made, and I think that's the other thing. You've got to be prepared to make mistakes. And you learn from those, don't you, Steph? 

Speaker 2  •  06:49
Absolutely. My gardening experiences are filled with mistakes, and I'm still making mistakes, though. But, yeah, mistakes are fine. I think it's the idea of perfection. You don't learn anything new unless you're trying things out and seeing what works and what doesn't. 

Speaker 3  •  07:10
Can I just come in there, Stephanie, on that? I must admit I'm helping a young couple who've never grown before. And what we did, I just put 10 Primo cabbages in for them. Well, Primo's an F1 hybrid. What do F1 hybrids do? Come all together. So we've now got 10 perfect cabbages to sort out, whereas they could have done with one this week, one next week, and that's where I like some of the old varieties. F1s were made for commercial growing. Yeah, and it's look at some of the old varieties and I think some of them still got some really good taste. 

Speaker 2  •  07:54
The nice thing now is there's a lot of the old heritage varieties. There are far more seed companies selling them compared with even five or ten years ago. So here I tend to rely on my first when I'm ordering seeds. I get the first lot from three seed companies, two are Welsh and one Scottish. They're all small businesses, but they're grown. They're all heritage, all over pollinated varieties. And then I'll get them from the larger seed companies. I get some F1s. F1 Florence fennels are slow bolting, so they're really good for sowing in the spring. Whereas some of the heritage varieties, they just go up into flower. so there's a place for them certainly but I think it's wonderful how much choice we've got now in fact there's too much choice I ended up having to make another bed because I got over I really like runner beans and I found even more heritage varieties and I ended up with I've got enough runner beans growing here for the whole flipping village that's the danger isn't it sorry to 

Speaker 1  •  09:03
interrupt that's a danger isn't it is and I've done it myself um as you go in in spring you're full of hope and expectation for the year. You go in, all of these different food seeds on the counters, and you can end up coming out with a bag full of seeds that you're just never going to get around to planting. And that's the day. You've got to be disciplined. 

Speaker 2  •  09:26
I was going to be really, really disciplined with tomatoes, but then it kind of grew. There's over 70 varieties here. Yeah, so I did get a bit overexcited there. But I do do canning. So I need some tomatoes that I grow that are really good for making sauces. And, you know, you want cherry tomatoes to snack on. You want beefsteak to make a really nice tomato sandwich. So there's tomatoes for different occasions. You get the groovy ones as well. One thing you can do, I mean, if you don't fancy preserving tomatoes, is dehydrating. So if you dehydrate tomatoes and they don't have to be homegrown, they can be, you know, when you're in the supermarket and there's loads of bargain ones. Just grab all of those and you dehydrate them so they're nice and dry. Now, they will just store in a jar and you can use those in all kinds of food in the winter. But also what you can do is whiz it up in a food processor. So you get tomato powder and mix that with some water and you've got tomato puree. So really intensely flavoured. So a lot of people now have air fryers. Most air fryers come with a dehydration setting. So it's something that you've probably got the equipment for already. Whereas I have big dehydrators, you know, like 10 layers, because I'm a food writer and I store food and it's part of my job. You don't need all of that. Actually, having a smaller one is you're more likely to do it if all you need to do is slice a few and just buzz away in the background. so there's lots of ways of preserving food it's great and your your friends with the many cabbages they could make sauerkraut they could make kimchi yes really good ways of preserving cabbages 

Speaker 3  •  11:19
yes making sauerkraut yes good for you very good for you let's move on to succession growing because 

Speaker 1  •  11:27
um john you've mentioned cut and come again lettuce this year is the first year that i've actually grown that because i've been busy growing other things um but but i've been surprised that just how good it is and how easy it is i'm actually giving lettuces away which i've obviously bought far too many but i think it's fantastic so how give me an example of the sort of succession growing we can do the easy way like come and cut again lettuce i'm still on my first sowings 

Speaker 3  •  11:58
I had basically six the biggest problem with me Rod is growing commercially I end up producing tons and tons of seedlings and I've got nowhere to put them, now I've got a much smaller garden so this year I just put six and I've just sown some more because obviously plants eventually do run up to seed and when they do run up to seed the flavours goes and I've got a tiny little glass house so once I've finished outside I and the tomatoes have gone I sow them in there but and normally as we get to the end of the season I tend to go for the early varieties because they mature quite quickly so I go back to early varieties but yeah I mean come again it doesn't matter if the you know if the light's not too great they still grow and you still get your lettuce and stuff like that so yeah i don't know how stephanie 

Speaker 1  •  13:01
goes on but um yeah that's how i i just so little and often now yeah well stephanie that's the thing isn't it is is that um before you know it you're actually eating healthier because i mean i'm eating so much more salad now because the lettuce is out on the balcony uh is i think well come on we've 

Speaker 2  •  13:16
got to use it so let's let's have a salad yes definitely um at the moment the peas the man in particular the monge too so i've got different varieties of sugar peas and monge too and they're just cropping like mad and with broad beans as well and the last of the asparagus and just those like as a part of the dinner of course you can eat them raw you can eat them cooked and you almost feel kind of like pea and bean and energy going through this it's so lovely I do do the sort of I pick rather than cut, but with the lettuces, because I worked in market gardening for years and the big cash crop was salad. So I have picked so many lettuce and it's a really good way of doing it because it does keep going for ages. But I do some specifically for hearting because barbecued lettuce is incredible. 

Speaker 1  •  14:17
Wow. 

Speaker 2  •  14:17
And so I grow some which are literally for barbecuing or grilling or even roasting. You halve or quarter them depending on the size. You want a nice, firm-headed, crisp one. Oh, my goodness, it's so good. They go caramelised around the edge and yum. You have to check them for slugs first, otherwise you get a bit of extra seasoning. And I have ducks here as well. They like lettuce. So if there's a really sluggy one, that goes to the ducks and they're really chuffed. 

Speaker 1  •  14:50
Wow. So clearly we're all sort of very enthusiastic about this. But the purpose really of the podcast is to share that enthusiasm with people who are perhaps just not quite as confident about starting to grow their own. Or they've been doing it and stuff has gone wrong and they're wondering, well, you know, is it worth all of the hassle? So let's just quickly recap on the starter kits. If you, because one of the things I want to move on to next is pests and disease. From what I gathered, and I've got it on my shopping list, but it's quite an expensive thing to do, is to get one of these purpose-built raised beds just for putting on the patio so that I can grow stuff away from all of the insects. And also it's not as bad for my back when I'm gardening. Raised beds? 

Speaker 2  •  15:44
The disadvantage of raised beds is, as you say, they can be expensive. You can make them cheaply out of bits of wood. The metal ones are easy to put together. I've got some on an area of concrete here. Really easy to put them together. And they last for ages and you can get them really nice colours. So they're pleasing. Also, they're expensive in as much of the amount of materials you need to fill them. If you're filling them with compost, that's a lot of material. And they can create a habitat for slugs because they like living in the cracks. And depending on where you are, they can create, not if they're on concrete, but if they're on soil, they're kind of enticing for rodents. So there's always advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is, as you say, it can be so much nicer for your back. They look really nice and that can make a huge difference, particularly if your garden is, you know, there's more than just yourself experiencing the garden. That can, when they look really nice, somebody who isn't really that keen on growing veg, visually it can be very beautiful. And so it's just like really working out what you want. 

Speaker 3  •  17:07
Stephanie, do you ever grow vegetables within herbaceous, you know, if you've got ornamental plants, do you grow between? Shove them in the border, yeah. It's very ornamental. 

Speaker 2  •  17:21
Yeah, I know you get, and the posh word for it now is edimentals. So if you've stuck, yeah. So if you've put a cabbage in your herbaceous border, it's an edimental. Wow. You're so with it. That's amazing. But that's the traditional way. I think a lot of people, I do a lot of planting. So my back garden here, I've got like two main growing areas, back garden and orchard. And the back garden is predominantly annual veg. And within that, I put in, so I'm kind of reverse, I'm putting the flowers in after the veg or along with the veg, which is all about boosting biodiversity. And also it looks nice. It boosts me as well. So I do that too. 

Speaker 3  •  18:15
Well, isn't that what you do there? Isn't that more like the traditional, if there is a traditional cottage garden? I think so. They wanted food. And so that was it. The flowers brought in the insects to pollinate. 

Speaker 2  •  18:33
A lot of the flowers are food as well. I mean, I grow different kinds of roses here. And the main reason I'm growing them is food. They're an edible crop. I mean, they're beautiful, but that's their primary function for me. And I grow a lot of calendula. And that's food. That's also something I use for making oil for my skin. And there's other things you can make with it. And in a cottage garden, because I grow a lot of herbs, animal ones and perennials, And the perennial herbs would have been the cottagers pretty much only source of medicine back in the day. I'm not advocating going back to that time. A lot of us are alive today because of modern medicine. I know I am. But that is part of what would have been in a cottage garden. And there's still it's if you've got a sore throat, a tea made from thyme, assuming you're not allergic to it, It tastes horrible, but it's really good for your throat. And so remedies like that would have been used. 

Speaker 1  •  19:40
Wow. All right, shall we go on to pests and diseases then? And this is where the conversation livens up a bit. We don't like to see pests and diseases on ornamentals, but we sure as hell don't want to see them on our food crops. So how do you legislate for that? 

Speaker 2  •  19:57
So recently I did a little reel for Instagram about the black fly on one of my broad beans and how delighted I was to see it. And there are many reasons why I was delighted to see it. Only affecting one broad bean plant. The rest of them were fine. And I sat there looking at it for about, it actually made me stop. I was really busy and it made me stop and look and just look at that whole bed of broad beans. And I saw ladybirds. I actually saw two ladybirds mating and another one came along. Those aphids will feed the ladybird larvae. They'll feed the larvae of hoverflies. And I grow plants specifically to attract things like ladybirds and hoverflies. They'll also feed a lot of these baby birds that I have living in the hedgerows and everything around my garden. So the parents need these juicy bugs to feed their young. It's also for the young, I believe, when they're still in the nest, this is their main source of fluid as well. It's these juicy bugs. So if I didn't have blackfly, then all these other creatures would not be supported. So it's about looking at the whole ecosystem of the garden and thinking of biodiversity. And if I had got a spray and sprayed off those aphids, then I would, as well as killing the aphids, I would likely have killed ladybird larvae, hoverfly larvae. And then people are complaining, oh, I've got no ladybirds. I've got no this, that and the other. And it's like, well, what have you been doing in the garden? So slugs, I say I have ducks, so they're grateful for slugs. I don't like invite slugs. I don't say slugs come here. please sit in my lettuces. But most things, it's all about finding the balance. When I was doing the photography for the book, the photography was all done by Jason Ingram, who's a very well-known garden photographer. And what I absolutely wanted in the photos were nibbled leaves because I wanted people to see that this actually is part of a healthy garden is the fact that something other than the people is also participating in the food so I'm do a combination of attracting predators such as ladybirds hoverflies wasps number one predator in the garden of wasps brilliant creatures um they pollinate and they take so many insects and also crop protection so I do grow some of my brassicas underneath hoops with butterfly netting and then they are protected from the cabbage white butterflies and the moth butterfly the moth caterpillars cabbage moths and i have some which grow in the garden and they get munched they always grow back but that way i've got if you don't have the caterpillars then apart from that we need butterflies even cabbage whites are needed if I don't have the caterpillars then my wasps and other predators are coming along and there's no food for them and they're going to die or they're going to bog off so it's it's actually it's really good fun because it's just working out the balance so when I clear my I've got my first earlies which haven't come out yet and I'm not harvesting they're going to come out this week but not in this weather but the first earlies and then the garlic which is the adjacent bed When they come out, I've got a whole load of brassicas waiting to go in and they're going to be netted. But there'll be the spare ones will be popped here, there and everywhere in the garden for the wild creatures. I use, you probably won't be surprised to hear, I use no sprays at all. Not even the so-called eco ones, which actually really are not eco at all. So I'm a complete garden hippie. 

Speaker 1  •  24:08
Well, yeah, I will. I'll just before John comes in. I will just say that I was number one villain in, you know, to wildlife in the garden when I first started, because there was a product for everything as there is in the garden centre. And I would buy it because, oh, yeah, well, I don't want those. And I don't want that problem. And I don't want this problem. I have a shelf full of all these chemicals and thankfully I've gradually weaned myself off them. And I'm very relaxed now about slugs, about snails, about even aphids to a point. The only thing I'm not, I am a sinner. I do use Rose Clear. So I'll hold my hand up and say I'm not, you know, I'm not a complete convert, but I'm so much better than I was. 

Speaker 2  •  24:59
Have you tried growing garlic with your roses? Because that's an Eastern European technique, which is, I mean, I'm not saying it's going to work, but it's meant to help if you've got fungal problems. I don't have fungal problems on my roses, but I don't know why. But obviously if I did, I wouldn't spray them. 

Speaker 1  •  25:21
Well, I'll bring John in here because I think one of the reasons is because I've been John's apprentice for the last 10 years. That must be 10 years at least, John. And one of the things he's taught me is that there's the reason why the fungus comes, and that's because there's not enough air circulating around the plant. It's in the wrong place. It's, you know, so it's not properly pruned. John? This is where I haven't managed to get your change, Rod, 

Speaker 3  •  25:48
because I don't spray roses anymore. Being as I've got the time now, I'm retired. I can go and take a few leaves off. I can check the leaves. I say walk down the garden every day, check the leaves on your plants. And if you've got aphids, flick them off or whatever. But I'm even worried about doing that now. Now I've listened to Stephanie because I'm taking those aphids away from the blue tits. But it's amazing. They find their food anyway. So, you know, they'd still be in your garden if you didn't grow broad beans. 

Speaker 2  •  26:22
And the broad bean tops, of course, are delicious. 

Speaker 3  •  26:25
Yeah, yes. Wash them off and eat those. 

Speaker 2  •  26:28
Yeah, not with the aphids. No, not with the aphids. 

Speaker 3  •  26:31
But they put the protein in there, eh? 

Speaker 2  •  26:34
Well, that's true, yeah. If they're waving at you while you're eating them. 

Speaker 3  •  26:39
Well, they're hoping to get us to eat bugs, aren't they? More bugs. 

Speaker 2  •  26:44
Oh, don't, yeah. I've been in markets where there's big baskets of bugs. And because it's not something that dried bugs, it's not something that we're used to in our diet. They do look really strange. But obviously there, it's perfectly normal. People be thinking, yum. 

Speaker 1  •  27:07
OK, so, well, we've sort of touched on organic approaches to pests and soil health. Well, we've done more than that. I think we've covered it really well. You've inspired me to try and not use any chemicals at all. As I say, I'm a changed man in many respects in terms of how I garden now. Let's get on to soil and compost, because we were due to get rid of peat-based products by the 1st of January this year. And then, of course, we had a change of government, well, the 1st of January last year, whenever it was. And then we had a change of government, and that kicked the whole thing into the long grass. Sorry, another analogy I didn't intend. But do you still have feelings about using peat-free compost? What compost do you use as a rule? 

Speaker 2  •  27:56
All of the compost I use is peat-free. I have used peat-free compost for years. It's something that is just, I wouldn't buy peat-based compost at all. So I grow practically everything you can think of here. and that you would grow in a garden in the UK and you don't need it in the slightest. The one thing is each peat-free compost is different and like everything in life you get what you pay for. So there are some peat-free composts just as they were peat-based composts which look like they're made from the scrapings off the floor. they don't hold moisture there's no nutrient they're just rubbish and that's the brands there they're just ripping people off they're mass producing something that is mediocre but most peat free compost companies are investing a lot of time and expertise in trying to get really good mixes so i use one which is entirely uk sourced or actually two which are entirely UK sourced. So you're looking at, they're made from things like composted comfrey, composted wool, composted bracken, those kinds of materials, composted wood chip. So there's two which I use every year. 

Speaker 1  •  29:28
Silver grow? 

Speaker 2  •  29:29
Yeah, yeah. Melchor is one and Elfurt is the other. So I use both of those and they both behave differently. So the dale foot tends to hold moisture more than the male caught. So all that is, is when things are in module trays or pots, is just thinking, OK, I'm not. So you don't end up over watering because some things will just hold water a little bit longer. There's and there's several others that I'm trying out that are new to me this year, new to the market. It's good that people are trying different things. So, yeah, I mean, and obviously the best compost of all is homemade compost. 

Speaker 1  •  30:11
Yeah. 

Speaker 2  •  30:12
Because that's the one you've poured all your love and care into. 

Speaker 1  •  30:15
So no peat-based at all, not even with propagation? 

Speaker 2  •  30:19
No, none at all, never. 

Speaker 1  •  30:20
OK. John? 

Speaker 3  •  30:22
Well, look at Rosie Hardy. They grow everything. Look at the quality of their plants. They grow everything in peat-free compost. So, obviously, they've got it off to a T. I must admit, for sowing my seeds, I do get clover, which is basically, now I know Stephanie's going to say, oh, my God, that's just a bag of peas. 

Speaker 1  •  30:44
She's shaking her head into people who are listening to the podcast. 

Speaker 3  •  30:47
Yeah, but I use that for propagation. But it's the ground, it's the soil I want to see with more organic matter in it. So it holds, it's getting to know your garden and know what the plants need, like Stephanie said right at the beginning. 

Speaker 1  •  31:06
All right, let's finish off with where we are now. We're just getting into summer. What can we be thinking about now that we might want to start planting, sowing? 

Speaker 2  •  31:18
For this time of year, early July, one thing that's quite good to sow now if you have an undercover space is some more dwarf French beans, because those will crop right into autumn. Or if you live somewhere like really far south in England, but undercover. So I'll be sowing some of those and popping them in gaps in my polytunnels for cropping later on. It's a really good time now for sowing Florence fennel. It's a good time for going and buying Christmas harvesting seed potatoes, if you fancy a bag or two of those. So they'll be in the shops now. Most of the things that I am growing for Christmas dinner are already in the ground. So Brussels sprouts are already plants, parsnips, etc. But you can still sow carrots and beetroot. Good time for sowing those now. The main one I'm really excited about, which I'll be starting next week, is radicios and chicories. Because they are harvested way into the autumn, into the wintertime. and they taste incredible and you can eat them raw and you can roast them and they're just fantastic but the actual sowing for the polytunnels so overwintering vegetables overwintering salads i'll be starting that in august so um it's a little early for those yet for me here john 

Speaker 3  •  32:49
i've just sown i've just sown a load of cabbage for winter yeah soy cabbage and just keep going with the succession or sowing with your other things. And like I say, perhaps just keep an eye on those varieties and go for the shorter day ones, the ones that we sow early because they mature quite quickly as well. Yeah, but it's great. There's always something. There's always something to do in the garden. It's fantastic. I mean, Stephanie, all she grows, it's unbelievable. I bet you're lying better than at night, don't you, thinking about what you're growing and stuff. And there's something on the drive that I need to pick. 

Speaker 2  •  33:33
I've got so much on my drive. My poor car is kind of pushed out of the way. 

Speaker 3  •  33:39
Oh, it's brilliant. It's brilliant. 

Speaker 1  •  33:42
Well, John, I can hear your dog saying, come on, it's time for my walk. So you better wind it up there. Not in this heat. No, no, quite. Steph, how can people keep up with what you're doing? We'll talk about the book as well, The Productive Garden. 

Speaker 2  •  33:59
So I have a website, which I'm ever so easy to find because you just type my name into the search engine and you'll get my website and everything. And there's lots of information on there about growing your own and also recipes for food and also other things. The book, oh, and I'm on social media. so Instagram, threads, Facebook, again my name, Stephanie Hafferty and my book is available in all the usual online places you can get signed copies from me via the website and all good bookshops 

Speaker 1  •  34:39
Steph, thank you so much, it's been really, really interesting and you've inspired me to do a little bit more on the food side as well as the ornamentals John always a pleasure Boom Radio listeners will be familiar with you we can catch up with John Boom Radio on my Sunday morning show from 9.30 and great to talk to you thank you for listening don't forget you can contact us through Bud Sprouts fan mail and do take a look at our Facebook group Loving Your Garden thanks for listening all the best see you soon