Digital sovereignty in practice: How AI, cybersecurity and data define modern resilience

Is your infrastructure truly resilient? Join Derek Marinos, Peter Warren, and Torsten Bernström as they explore how AI and IT/OT integration define modern digital sovereignty.

As energy, utility, and defense sectors converge, physical borders are being replaced by digital ones. This episode breaks down the "cardiovascular system" of national infrastructure and why traditional security silos are now a liability.

Key Takeaways:

• IT/OT Convergence: Why separate security teams often result in "no security" at all.
• Real-Time AI: Shifting from retrospective analysis to real-time situational awareness and decision support.
• The Speed Advantage: Using defense models to observe and act faster than adversaries.
• Governed Data: Treating data as a strategic asset to manage non-linear supply chain risks.
• Unified Resilience: Why sustainability and security are two sides of the same coin.

Readiness is the new measure of security. Learn how to build trust across systems, people, and data in an age of transition.

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Transcript

Framing Digital Sovereignty

Derek Marinos 0:03

Welcome back to Energy Transition Talks. I'm Derek Marinos, your host. In this second episode, we turn to the digital backbone that supports modern sovereignty, the systems that connect, protect, and power national infrastructure. We'll explore how AI, cybersecurity, and digital trust define readiness in an increasingly complex world. Back with our guests, Peter Warren and Torsten Bernstrom. Peter, I'd love to start with you on this one. What makes IT OT integration, and that's information technology and operational technology, the cardiovascular system of national infrastructure?

Peter Warren 0:42

It's a great question, uh, and thanks for asking it. It's a concern of many federal governments right now. And it comes down in the case of provincial and state and local legislation. For a long time, though, it was sort of this I got a rubber stamp. I did it, um, I've made it secure. Now it's becoming no, you will comply and in some cases use the federal tools. Uh this is moving down, and the reason for this is with ITOT integration, they're the points of attack. And when you look at the various attacks that have happened in the energy industry, uh fishing still re is the number one thing, human manipulation. The other one is coming at the uh infrastructure, and uh it's always about finding the weakest link. So some attacks have been going to a manufacturer that has a backdoor into their system that then has a backdoor into the IT uh OT department that then crosses into IT and so on. And we see this. Um Stan Sims, he's retired from CGI, but he was our former security uh officer and he transformed the way we do security in CGI, and we continue to evolve that. But one of the parts he brought forward is that if you have a separate IT security team and a separate OT security team is you have no security because you have to have a unified approach. And that's a bit controversial in the industry because CIOs and operations people say, no, this is my fiefdom, this is my fiefdom. My belief, uh, based on what Stan has many years in the Pentagon and other places taught me is that you really have to treat this as one unit, and fragmentation in the organization is not good. It becomes a weak point. Uh, even if you have experts looking at different parts of it for obvious reasons, because they are differences, there has to be a communication and construct and organizational structure to it. And that's how we operate uh as a CGI, all the way up to the board of directors, knowing what roles they are, right down to the individual members of CGI having to actually do certain things. So security isn't a departmental thing, it certainly isn't anymore. And if it is in a company, they really need to have a hard look at what they're doing.

Derek Marinos 2:48

And Torsten, I I'm hearing Peter here and echoing Stan's uh comments, and just somehow cardiovascular and fractured that just doesn't seem or doesn't work here. I I'm guided by this. Could you share your perspective on that as well?

Security Baked In From Day One

Torsten Bernström 3:06

I well, first of all, thank you. Thank you, Derek. Uh, first of all, back to Stan Siams, uh great mentor, and he also said beside the OTIT statement, that you really need to work with security all along, from the first day. So security, IT security cannot be bolted on, it has to be baked in, baked into every solution. I for myself like the term of a cardiovascular system when it comes to everything that has to do with IT in the supply chains and the total defense. Uh, because I sometimes get the question like, yeah, but you are representing the defense arena, defense authorities, defense industry when it comes to business. What do you know about water supplies or energy? And I would say nothing in today's society works without the zeros and ones in our IT system. Even if you have to have water from your faucet or energy in your light bulb, that is governed by the IT systems. So for a malinked uh force and a foe from state actor or some terrorist, you would go for the IT systems. That's where you will make most harm. And that's actually a frightening scenario, but something that can be that we need to be vigil vigilant and steadfast for everyday.

AI For Real‑Time Threat Detection

Derek Marinos 4:42

Oh, I agreed and understood. I I mean the holistic approach is is vital. Understanding that, that those zeros and ones are part of everyday life and mean more than just the the sum uh is is vital. And that leads me to my next question, and it's really important to look at when you see zeros and ones, because it's more than just that. It's how can AI and predictive maintenance enhance system resilience, Peter?

Peter Warren 5:07

It's it's in it's a wonderful spot. And I I see leaders in this. There's several companies. Uh, there's uh it's public uh ExxonMobil, they publish things, they are very active in doing things in what they're doing. I see them as a leader in this in the world. Uh, but you see other companies and other parts of it even into things uh airports and rail. I've been pulled into these conversations about. It's very much about having an as-designed uh viewpoint of what you have, an as-built current, you know, image of things, but then a real-time overlay of what's happening. Um, using an example, it's uh not an energy one, but it's a uh airport one, is they were very good at looking at forensically uh what happened. They could tell that when they went back and watched all their cameras that this person kept going to this area, they kept coming back again and looking at it, and they could see that that's how they gained access to the spot they weren't supposed to go. What we can now do with uh things like machine vision and tools and software is actually not necessarily send 20 minutes of video that somebody has to figure out, but the photograph that you need to be concerned of right now, the AI says this is the thing you should be concerned about right now. Everything else, this is the picture you need to look at for here, for this person. And we've determined not just by facial recognition, because some parts of the world you can't do that, but by stature, walking, pattern, who they are, and maybe not as an individual that it's not Derek, uh, it's not Peter, it's not Torsten, but this person has repeatedly come back to this spot, even though they've changed their clothes, and look at it and say that shouldn't be there. Or they're it could be that they're an employee, they're wearing their equipment, they're not wearing their equipment, they're a visitor not wearing their right equipment, they're not doing things. These are things you need to know now to avert a problem or a potential threat, um, versus uh looking back forensic forensically and saying, okay, we can rewatch the video and see what we did wrong last time.

Derek Marinos 7:02

The outs of prevention, Torsten.

Torsten Bernström 7:04

Yeah, but and also, I mean, today with uh today we're talking about data-driven defense. It's been a slogan for quite a while, but now it's really happening. The amount of data that you can create from or uh uh take in from sensors uh it it it's it's huge. And the problem is, or the possibilities are of course also are that with artificial intelligence and predictive uh algorithms, you today can really speed up the decision process. The decision process which in military terms people talk about the coda loop, the observe, orient, decide act. And whoever gets that will to turn faster and faster, faster than your adversaries or malinked force will win. So with the artificial intelligence and the predictive part of the algorithms uh and automation that makes you actually move faster and sort out the unnecessary data. Finding the golden nuggets gives you the possibility to really, really uh go in circles around your your opposition.

Derek Marinos 8:20

That's w wonderful torsen, and you're providing a great segue to our second block, which is looking at you know data and more specifically, you know, has data become the new form of sovereignty? How does data enablement support sovereign decision making in crisis response, Peter?

Is Data The New Sovereignty

Peter Warren 8:41

Yeah, it's it's it goes back to kind of what we just both talked about a minute ago, is that forensic data is nice, but that's history. You need to have systems that are telling you right now. And as humans, we have to have humans in the middle because we're the ones that act, we're the ones that are doing things. So we're not uh uh uh uh uh suggesting that we abdicate responsibility, we are still responsible. But we can combine things in the form for humans in a way that maybe we haven't done before. Uh given all the history of how something went before, let's say it's simply a storm. The threat is a storm, it's not a person. And the storm is coming through. The last time a storm like that hit us from here, these are the things that fell down, these are the things that broke, this is the inventory you should have on hand again, these are the staff you're gonna have, these are the contractors you should probably call again. Now, either you remember that or can look it up, or the system can automatically bubble that to the surface for you in the form of this emergency and saying, these are probably the things you're gonna have to worry about. Further, this just broke. Now, when that breaks, you should do these things. Helping the person be better, helping them be more automated. Our energy people are now we're no longer replacing like for like one for one in the energy industry with you just can't get all the same people as you had before and the skills are changing. People are being demanded to do many more tasks than they were before. If they were unif unifunction before now, they're definitely multifunction now. And therefore, the systems are are needed to support these folks. Plus, there's a generational thing. If you are looking to replace the folks like myself with gray hair with experience with people that are younger, they younger people demand that those tools exist, that they are in their palm of their hand, that they bubble it up with the process, starting with safety first. Am I ready to do this work? Am I wearing the right gear? Yes, okay, now this is what you're going to do. And that's where I see this industry moving forward very rapidly. And therefore, that is all data, local data, data based on our policies, our procedures, our best things, our manufacturer's best processes, not some generic viewpoint from another part of the planet. It's very personal.

Derek Marinos 10:54

And Torsten, I I I think you know, especially coming from where you are, uh across the pond from where I'm based here in Montreal, of course. Uh, do you see that same perspective? Is that same perspective shared uh uh around the world from a global viewpoint? Because what what Peter's describing here seems to be the blueprint moving forward.

Torsten Bernström 11:14

Well, of course. The um uh first of all, everybody's on their feet now uh trying to to put all the supply chains together, all the um uh aspects of resilience, and as I've mentioned before, the total defense concept with with all its aspects of uh having uh all parts of society working together, that's a given. Yes.

Supply Chains As Dynamic Ecosystems

Peter Warren 11:42

To quote one of our our clients uh that actually spoke at one of our our internal meetings, he was saying that his particular company um they looked at their supply chain at one point every four years, not because they needed to, but because they thought they should. It it's now a weekly thing. Uh their suppliers are attacked by pirates, they're attacked by uh different aspects of things, their uh impacts in oil, impacts in tariffs, impacts in everything. They it is now a key function of their ongoing uh business. And it's not a linear supply chain, it's an ecosystem. What given everything I have now, what are the different strings I can pull on to fill that gap and that need? And therefore, it's a much more of a dynamic function. And uh you mentioned too, actually, I think the first time he asked what you know what his inventory looked like. It took them six weeks to come back and tell them what his global inventory was. Now they know instantaneously, and that's the power of data.

Derek Marinos 12:34

Now, very important point, and Peter, you've given me a thread to pull on here. Um, you know, how can nations retain control of their data while collaborating globally? Because there is a need to collaborate globally.

Peter Warren 12:47

Yeah, uh for me it's about exchanges. We do this already today. Uh in if you look at the banking industries, uh, I'll pull upon some of our experience from our uh our counterpart, Andy, who does the banking side, and Schmidt. You know, we move data in the form of banking every day between people who don't know each other, don't like each other, don't trust each other. And that crosses borders, that crosses exchange rates, that it crosses policies and legislations and rules. It goes from very uh competitive markets to very socialistic markets and back again. And what that is, is that's all based on policies, procedures, checks and balances. It's not to say that I'm exposing my banking data entirely, but I'm giving you access to this piece for this specific reason for this particular purpose, and it's going to change ownership from me to you. And that kind of model uh is where we're heading for in our ecosystems.

Derek Marinos 13:44

Torsen how you may extend that to other industries as well, too.

Sharing Data With Control And Speed

Torsten Bernström 13:48

And if I may, uh the um also the uh an operative world word here is speed. Information is only valid for a short time. When it comes to the decision makers in a, should we say, military loop, uh, you can say that uh the information that is now is the valuable one. And uh we'll say, like, how should we store data in when alliances now seem to shift so much? Well, very much like Peter said, it's all about transfer of data, checks and balances, but the operative world word is speed.

Derek Marinos 14:31

Speed, very important. Um I'd I'd like to take a moment just to move on now to sustainability and versus reliance. I I hate to put both of them as adversaries, but let's let's do the exercise here and ask the question can defense ever be low carbon or is resilience the real sustainability?

Sustainability And Defense Converge

Torsten Bernström 14:55

Well, Torsten here, I would say there is no conflict. It's actually two sides of the same coin. Because resilience and sustainability, well, you don't need uh to act uh actually in the long run, the our efforts now to have a more sustainable and also resilient society. I mean, look at it from what we can do to actually uh have a more stable society or be more sustainable to threats. Well, uh in the long run, that would lead to s innovative solutions that actually will make us be more carbon neutral, be more efficient with the earth resources, and be should we say more uh agile when it comes to what materials we use. So in a way, I would say this is actually working to the advantage of us as a human race.

Derek Marinos 15:56

Yeah, two sides of the same coin, Peter. Uh kind of like Torston's look at that. Your perspective?

Readiness As The Measure Of Security

Peter Warren 16:02

Yeah, it there's sort of a belief that the militaries run only on dinosaur juice, and and that's that's a lie. Uh they actually are a big adopter of of innovation like electric vehicles, even electric motorcycles. And the thing is with that, you know, you know, if you're in a battle, you can't necessarily always get gasoline out to the field, but if they've got their own solar panels, they can juice these things up locally. So there is an element of sustainability even in the conflict that says if you can run your radios off of solar and not have to supply batteries to them. The old um, you know, uh World War II type of supply chains are not necessarily required for shipping all of this stuff in every case. So the military is looking to decarbonize uh and and move things forward. But again, it's not because it's trying to always do the right thing, it's because it's the best thing. It's the thing that actually is easier and better for me in this situation. It's better for me to have solar panels, it's better for me to have the ability to deselenate and purify water in the field using solar and battery and stuff, than it is for me to send a diesel truck out there to fill up the generator to do it. So there is a move towards doing this now from a tactical standpoint, not just because it's the socially right thing to do.

Derek Marinos 17:16

Thank you, Peter. Across our conversation, of course, one truth stands out sovereignty is evolving. Energy and defense, once separate domains, now depend on one another to secure not just our borders, but our way of life. Resilience has become the foundation of progress, and readiness, both physical and digital, is the measure of true security. I'd like to thank both Peter Warren and Torsten Bernstrom for joining us for another installment of Energy Transition Talks. I'm Derek Morinos, your host, and until next time, stay resilient. Goodbye for now.