63. Public Safety, Public Health, and Prevention: A Cross-Sector Response

On this episode of Community Difference Makers, Bankers Trust and United Way of Central Iowa learn more about how public safety, public health, and community impact can work together to address youth violence with United Way of Central Iowa's Luke Lynch, Chief Michael McTaggart of Des Moines Police Department, and Juliann VanLiew of Polk County Health Department.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hello and welcome to Community Difference Makers, brought to you by Bankers Trust and United Way of Central Iowa. I'm your host, Emily Avis. Over the past several episodes, we've explored youth violence as a systems challenge, and we've talked about the power of prevention, mentorship, and youth employment. Today, we're bringing together three leaders who represent different parts of that system: public safety, public health, and community impact. No one sector can do it alone. So joining me today are Chief Michael McTaggart of the Des Moines Police Department, Julianne Van Lu, director of Polk County Health Department, and Luke Lynch, who's community impact officer at United Way of Central Iowa. Thank you all for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Let's start with you, Chief. When we talk about youth violence in Des Moines, what trends or patterns are you paying closest attention to right now?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Usually we're trying to make sure the serious crimes, obviously, the goal is always to decrease those, but just see where the patterns are emerging as far as uh usually gun crime is what we're looking at more consistently. Is um, you know, the last few years uh it's gone down a little bit, but still 600 guns a year taken off the streets, and a lot of those are 16 to 24-year-old um people that were taking those guns off. And that's one of the main uh attributors to obviously violent crime. And so that's one of our key indicators as we look at that as we keep going and trying to get better data. What is that actually telling us? And is there a method to reduce the number of guns available on the street in these uh in the use that you know hopefully if that goes down then we'll be able to decrease the violent crime?

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Julian, from a public health perspective, how do you define youth violence?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Sure. Youth violence from our perspective really is a preventable health outcome. Um, it is not just a criminal justice issue, right? Although we partner and we need one another and we're two sides of the same coin to some extent, um, we really think of it as something that can be entirely prevented, and we prevent that by working within the environments that kiddos are growing up in, right? So just like any other health outcome, even if we look at our more communicable disease trends, violence is very similar. The amount you're exposed to it, the intensity of that exposure really helps play a role in how much more violence you experience and how much violence you may, you know, eventually perpetrate, unfortunately. And so we think of it like any other health issue, and we look at it from a risk and protective standpoint uh and use a really broad, holistic uh definition. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

So, Luke, United Ways Safe and Thriving Youth Initiative intentionally brings together public safety, public health. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, well, I think we've heard through studies and through research that that's what it takes uh to move our community forward to reduce youth violence. I think, you know, Chief talked about the guns that have been taken off the street. I think you talked to Jackie Easley in an earlier episode, and she likely talked about talk it up, lock it up. Well, that's the prevention piece of that. How can we prevent, in the first place, the guns from making it to the street? Talk it up, lock it up, and and providing gun locks will do that. I think beyond that, United Way, we bring together nonprofit, government, business, and individuals. Uh, and this is another way of bringing those cross sectors together to to address the critical community issues.

SPEAKER_03 3:41

Chief, some people assume that prevention is being soft on crime. How would you respond to that?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I'd say it's the exact opposite. Prevention helps you stay out of the bad situation to begin with, which is an always an easier task than trying to figure out how to solve a crisis or solve something terrible that's already occurred. So, prevention, if that can happen, that saves everybody a ton of money, uh, experience of pain, and experience of loss. So the prevention is huge. I would say it's the opposite of soft on crime. Prevention is a way to eliminate some very uh negative experiences all around.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

And what role do relationships between your officers and youth in our community play?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Well, uh a couple different things, but you know, there's the TV version of the police are going to get in information, like an informant idea. And that while that does occur, what we're actually looking for is to be able to have uh back and forth communication where we can see what is happening uh in somebody's life or even in an area, neighborhood of town where they might tell us a little bit more. And that just doesn't come easily. That whether you're police or not, you know, people don't just talk about sensitive things very easily. So you have to form uh a relationship, and that relationship is formed through consistency. And that's the main thing is consistent uh communication. There people aren't going to tell the police everything. That that's not the goal of it. The goal of it is to have the avenue when they know a serious situation is going to occur or they think it's gonna occur or they feel like they need help. We are an option for them to go to and sooner rather than later. You don't want to hear about, you know, this, you know, the tragic stories of, oh, I did hear about this, I just didn't know who to go to, whether it's us or the health department or the schools or whatever, having the ability to know where to go and know that these people can be helpful is the main thing for us.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Does that fall into the if you see something, you say something, if you hear something, say something?

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yes, you know, that and that's more of a you know, that's a national thing of you know, see something, say something. And the nice thing with that is it's a it's a pretty good slogan because it says what it means and it's easy to remember, and it's exactly what it says. It says you see something, you notice something strange, don't just hold it in, say something to somebody. Is it always going to be a big deal? No, many, many times it probably isn't. But man, you would feel a lot better about a situation that you mentioned something and nothing occurred, then you didn't mention something and something terrible happens.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Yeah. Julianne, what are the health consequences when youth violence becomes normalized?

SPEAKER_02 6:42

I love that question because I think people often think that a violent incidence is one acute contained moment in time. And what we know is that it's really not at all. That one moment can have reverberations across the entire life course for family members and for next generations, right? When young people especially are in environments where they're being exposed to violence all the time, um, they go through a similar thing when we talk about toxic stress, right? It means that anxiety, that constant presence puts their body in a different physiological state. And when it does that, it means that it doesn't just change the health outcomes right there in that moment. It actually changes long-term health outcomes. So people who are frequently the subject of violence when they're in their youth and are experiencing that continually have poorer chronic disease outcomes like heart disease, like diabetes, like stroke. Uh, women and girls who are exposed to sexual violence, especially chronically, end up with really poor long-term health outcomes, life expectancy is much shorter. So we see the health ramifications as much, much broader because of the mental, emotional damage it does, the substance abuse it often leads to, the PTSD that can result, and those mental, social, and physical ailments often persist again across the life course.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

As a follow-up, what are some upstream public health strategies that can reduce these risks that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Absolutely. So much of it really comes down to the idea of connectedness, of our youth being connected with the adults in their life, with the caregivers in their life. And so a lot of what Safe and Thriving Youth, the reason why it's successful and going to be successful is those are evidence-based strategies aimed at connecting youth to people in their life who are going to protect and take care of them, right? It's also about giving those same youth opportunities to experience things, to exhibit leadership, to grow and to learn, right? So any educational intervention, any after-school program, any internships for our young people, those are violence intervention programs, right? Anytime you're connecting a young person with a purpose, with a mentor, with a goal to achieve and helping them build those skills, those are violence prevention programs and the ones that oftentimes are the most effective.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

Luke, we often talk about uh the great data that United Way helps when it comes to data across sectors. What how does United Way help connect those those sectors using all of this great information that you collect?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah, so we're very fortunate that we collect a lot of data and from both of your teams. Uh, Chief, you've uh been able to provide some data for us to work with. And Julianne, your team has provided some data as well. As we look at what's happening in Polk County, as we look at um, we compare that with the census data, disengaged youth. We know that disengaged youth, if if youth don't have um a uh that adult mentor or work or school, they're more likely to engage in violent behavior. So bringing all that together uh helps to tell that story and identify, okay, where are the where are the gaps? And we've been able to do that also through um qualitative data. Uh what is it, what stories are out there, what what mentoring opportunities are out there, what times of year, what time of day, what age group um are they, to bring all that data back to the groups that we've been convening to start to address those gaps and to start to really identify, okay, how are we moving forward with this initiative?

SPEAKER_03 10:13

And then, Chief, how does this information sharing help improve outcomes in the end?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

So the data system is very interesting to us because while police work is, you know, generally, okay, we're trying to suppress crime, help people, uh, many of us are not, you know, accountants data entry, we don't understand it as well. And so uh it has been interesting to get our uh IT people with the data and then talk to Luke, and and then when they can share data in between, you get a better perspective of what is actually going on in the community. Instead of just your set of information that you're comparing, when you can compare different groups, it really does help to say, okay, is there a better pattern? And then we can feed that information further into you know patterns of how we want to approach a situation. Most of the time it's not always, hey, put more police at it. That's that can solve stuff for brief periods of time. That's not going to solve something over a large period of time. People will just move to a different area and do whatever they were doing. So if you can solve the actual problem instead of just throwing one specific resource, if you have multiple resources available and people that really want to help, that is the big part of that. There's a lot of people that want to help, but the nice thing that United Way does, I feel, is they get everybody together and kind of get them moving in the same direction. Instead of us all on separate boats rowing differently, we're all kind of rowing in one boat towards this goal. So that's the nice thing for us, at least.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Yeah. Great benefit to having United Way is the convener. Um, Julianne, what does success look like from a health standpoint?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Absolutely. So, of course, fewer, fewer injuries, fewer youth deaths, of course. Um, but it also means younger people feeling more safe and supported in their own environments, right? It means young people accessing mental health and substance-related services. It means school staff, public health staff, police staff, all of us looking at our data and looking at our outcomes, but also looking at one another's to understand are we moving outcomes forward across the board and not just in my single sector? Um, so I think we're looking at a whole host of things moving forward. The other thing is to acknowledge that health outcomes don't change overnight, right? You're not going to implement a community violence campaign and the next year just automatically see fewer homicides, right? We hope for that. Um, but we have to keep kind of the long game in mind, which is, you know, really all public health issues, um, and really pay attention to the success successes in the short term, which are often building those partnerships, creating those contracts where we've committed ourselves to shared goals, shared values, shared strategies, right? So I think we've got to take kind of a long-term look at success and think about how we measure that process towards those larger population health outcomes.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

So, youth violence, this topic can sometimes create fear or polarization, Chief. How do we prevent that from undermining the progress that we need to make?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

I think a little bit is to remind people that just because you hear about something in the media, not taking away from the seriousness of an incident, does not necessarily mean it's super or it's it's common, it's an everyday thing. And we see that a lot in social media, in mainstream media, where you know, things are put out there, and yes, they do occur, and bad things do occur, but they're not as common as people think they are because they see them over and over again on social media. So re you know, reaffirm what the actual number is, reaffirm consistency of yes, we are working on, you know, trying to make progress, and we have a pretty good system down, but it does not happen overnight. But the fear, you can't let the fear of something make you deviate into okay, we're just going to try to stop all youth crime. That's not going to happen. And so you have to stick with a program that you trust and believe in and just let people know, okay, yes, things do occur, but it is not as common. We can give you the statistics of how uncommon it really is.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

So we now have this violence prevention plan here in our community. Luke, how does that plan address the issue of trust? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Well, we spent a lot of time working on that trust as we were building the plan. 12 months we spent working in community with various stakeholders, creating sanctuary, as uh the consultants who helped us put this plan together called it, coming together, having the parking lot conversation in the room, uh, and just making sure we're all on the same page and really taking time to build that trust and be deliberate. And I think that that pays off as we go out and we create more partnerships and we start to look at what community violence intervention looks like. And it's partnering with those same stakeholders who are in the room, identifying, taking a trusted source to the community with the law enforcement uh in talking to youth who may be at risk or maybe engaging in violent behavior and saying, hey, we know what's happening, but we here's another path. And here's here's the work that we've done on this end to build those relationships, to create a path, to make sure that the path is known for you. Um, and and this is the path we'd like you to take. That trust uh is felt in the community.

SPEAKER_03 16:01

The word sanctuary has come up a lot through these conversations. I'm glad you did that. Another topic that comes a lot up a lot as we've been talking about youth violence is systems level, that this is a systems level issue. Um, to all three of you, I'll throw out there if you could accelerate one systems level improvement in the next year, what would it be? Who wants to start?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

I keep going first.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

So I'm gonna let we'll go in reverse order.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Is is it a cop out if I say collaboration? Is that all-encompassing?

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Um another, another key theme that we've been hearing.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Well, one thing I will say is communication. I think that that is always something we can be working on. I we are continuing to look at what are the tools out there, what is the best way to communicate with stakeholders, those who are engaged in the work on the uh, you know, organizations on the front lines. How can we make sure that we're all communicating together so that we know what's happening and that we can get youth to the services that they need.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

I have to echo that, um, but I also want to double down on the data conversation. So there has been, I think, movement in the last several years, largely spearheaded by United Way with partners to look at a lot more of this data, and yet there's still a tremendous amount of untapped data, right? When we start to look at, okay, once youth do unfortunately enter the system, what's it looking like in terms of recidivism? What's it looking like in terms of when they're able to be mediated versus ending up incarcerated, right? So there's a whole other back part in terms of how does being in that system impact that person's health long term, right? Um, um, not just for the victim, but also for the offender. So I think continuing to share data and getting in even deeper across sectors to figure out where else we can continue to explore that, really in pursuit of creating a shared understanding of youth violence. I think they're get, I think we're getting there, right? But I think still think there's a lot of folks in our community who who don't share our understanding of what the community violence situation is looking like. And when that's the case, it is hard to get everybody around the same set of shared goals. So, I mean, really taking what they've been building and to continue to accelerate it to add data to the mix, to add more partners, I think we're on the right trajectory.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Uh not to steal both their answers, but really I would really like to see our data come out faster from our department into this um collaboration because it it can be difficult because especially when you're dealing with youth data, you it takes a different type of clearing to make sure there's no signatures on it and it can't be identified, and so it takes longer. And and uh so if we can get that data out faster, it will just be an easier process and we'll know more, you know, uh to date data, and we'll be able to use that better because um you know, people move around, things shift in the city, uh and it'd just be interesting to have that data and then be able to compare it as you know, real time as it compared to like six month-a-go data?

SPEAKER_03 19:13

So I'm gonna go to all three of you again with this next question, and maybe we'll go back in reverse order again and start with you, Chief. Um, what gives each of you confidence that Central Iowa is moving in the right direction when it comes to making progress? Um, or hope. I like to use the word hope. What gives you hope that Central Iowa is moving in the right direction, Chief?

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Well, I've been doing this pretty long time, and what I like about this one in particular is United Way has a specific method that they bring together groups and then they I mean it takes time, and people don't have the patience all the time to do this. It takes time to lay a foundation, but if you don't lay that foundation, the stuff crumbles really fast within a year or two. Whatever you're trying to do kind of falls apart. So, you know, when when Luke and his team was going around for a year, that's a lot of times when people run out of energy and they don't continue. And so United Way has a good uh foundation of of goals and how to reach those goals, and then the collaboration of all these different groups of people, um, they want success, but they have proven track records of success over their careers, and you bring those people together and you're going to have success. So I I believe that this will be successful. It uh, like you said, it's not gonna be overnight, but when you start making progress, and once that ball gets rolling, I think you're gonna see uh some good success.

SPEAKER_03 20:49

And before we move on, I just want to thank you for your service. You've been a great friend to the bank as your team for a long time. And and your team shows up uh when we have events and when we honor members of the community and you keep our branches safe with off-duty officers that have built really great relationships and trust with our team. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Well, we love Bankers Trust, and you guys do a great job, and we are we're always here to help you.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

Uh what gives me confidence is the chief just gave a beautiful introduction talking about prevention as some of the best medicine to violence, right? So knowing that not just public health, but all of us share this understanding that prevention really is going to give us the most, not just bang for our buck, but also the most health benefits, the most, uh, the fewer families who are losing a loved one, right? And so I think the fact that consistently you have public health, uh, public safety, community funders at the table, you know, staying in these conversations is really hopeful. It's not like that in all communities. I've done public health in a lot of other communities. You sometimes you do not see the police chief and the department head of public health sitting together. And so I think we do have something special here. And it's come out of, like you mentioned, the work that folks have done to kind of lay that groundwork. So I think the trusted relationships and the ability to have some hard conversations, which really can only come about after those trusted relationships already exist. But those hard conversations is often times where things change and move from idea into action. And we've got that here.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Luke?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Well, I'll echo everything that they said. One thing that is resonating with me or that I keep thinking of is the quote progress moves at the speed of trust. And I don't know who to attribute that quote to, but it it just resonates. And I think that is so important to keep in mind that you know we we are moving at the speed of trust and we are creating those relationships. And is it perfect? No. Are we gonna stumble? Yes. But we have a community who's ready to show up and ready to keep coming to the bat, coming to the plate, uh, to use a baseball metaphor, uh, and to to show up and uh for their community, and that really provides me hope.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

Thank you. Thank you all. What I'm hearing is that progress is real and it's the result of people choosing to work together. Today's conversation reinforces youth violence is not just a law enforcement issue. It's not just a health issue, it's a true community issue. Public safety, public health, education, nonprofits, families, employers. And when all of these sectors align around shared data and shared goals, we move from reaction to prevention. At the center of it all, what we've learned through this series is that youth and young people need stability at home, opportunity at school, connection to mentors, access to mental health support, and neighborhoods where they feel safe. These kinds of ecosystems don't happen by accident, they happen by design, and our community has been coming together to make significant progress. If today's conversation resonated with you, here's how you can help support youth-servations, advocate for mental health access, engage in firearms safety education, and build relationships within your own neighborhood. We sure learned a lot today. We talked about the importance of relationships, consistency, communication. We know that progress takes time, but we're making progress. But we also learned that youth violence is preventable and we're on that path. Learn more at unitedwaydm.org backslash youth. And thank you to Luke, Chief McTaggart, and Julianne for all of your leadership and for your partnership. I'm Emily Abbas with Bankers Trust. And when we come together across sectors, we don't just respond to challenges. We build safer, stronger futures for every young person in central Iowa. We're grateful you've been a part of this conversation. Thank you for listening, and thank you for caring about this work, this important work that's happening across our community.