The Families of Character Show
We serve parents who want more for their family. Our show offers research-based parenting solutions to the most common family problems, real-life parenting stories, and authentic support. The host, Jordan Langdon, is a wife, mother, and Licensed Clinical Social Worker who validates what parents go through and offers practical actionable steps parents can implement today to transform their families in joy and unity. Guests are experts in their field of work and provide high-value material for parents and families.
The Families of Character Show
Ep# 112 Parenting: How to Live a Regret-Free Life with Jake Wysocki
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https://www.intentioncraft.com/What if you could parent without regrets? Join us this week as we sit down with Jake Wysocki, an expert in Design Thinking and a seasoned workshop facilitator, who shares the secrets behind living a regret-free life as a parent. Jake's innovative Design Your Regret-Free Life Parenting Workshops offer a tactical approach to live with intention and crush the goals you have for your family. In this episode he opens up his treasure trove of wisdom just for you. Learn the practical strategies for intentional living that Jake has honed over years of personal experience and professional expertise.
Jake and his wife, Noelle, took a daring leap by quitting their jobs to embark on a year-long global adventure—a decision that forever changed their lives and their approach to parenting. This episode captures the essence of their journey, filled with thrilling stories from the Swiss Alps to the bustling streets of Japan. Want to learn more about their adventure? Check out their blog.
Jake explains the concept of "memory dividends," where the joy of anticipation and recollection often surpasses the experience itself, and how this mindset can enrich your family's life. Discover how even the smallest, intentional moments can create lasting, joyful memories for you and your children.
From weekly planning meetings that bring structure and harmony to family life, to empowering kids through inclusive goal-setting, Jake's insights are both practical and profound. He shares how adopting these strategies can reduce decision fatigue, foster family cohesion, and enable you to seize meaningful moments. Whether you're contemplating a bold life change or simply looking to optimize your daily routines, this episode is packed with actionable advice. Tune in and start your journey towards a more intentional, regret-free family life today.
Check out Intention Craft & Schedule a free Coaching Call with Jake today.
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Hey parents, welcome back, or welcome. If you've just started listening to our show today, you are in for a big treat. Listen, our topic for today is how to live a regret-free life as a parent. Wouldn't it be so awesome to get to our last day on this earth and be able to really say with certainty I have no regrets? Well, today on our show we have a guest who's going to talk about just that. So welcome to the show Jake Wysocki.
Speaker 2:Thanks, jordan, happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, guys, jake is an experienced workshop designer and facilitator who runs Intention Craft. He quit his corporate job in January of this year to help parents design regret-free lives with their children, and he does that through his Design your Regret-Free Life workshops. So I'm really, really excited to have you on the show, jake.
Speaker 1:You know parents people will say to me like who's your competition? And you know I don't consider anyone my competition in the realm of helping parents. I think their hands down is not enough of us. So I'm just really glad to share what Jake has to offer for our parent community as well. So in Jake's previous job as a design thinking strategist, he coached, trained and facilitated workshops for hundreds of people, and he now uses those skills, combined with some lessons he's learned from his own pursuit of living a better life, to really help parents live with more intention and make the most of their time with their kids. And Jake is part of our audience. He's married, his wife Noelle, and he has two kids, and they're raising these two daughters ages three and six. So they're in the thick of it with us. So anyway, jake, I'm super pumped to have you.
Speaker 2:Thanks. I'm really excited to be here and share some hopefully some helpful insights to your audience.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, guys, we met at a craft and commerce conference in Boise, idaho, in June of this year. I was out there with my coach, andy Hickman, from the HEAL community that's H-E-Lco, and Andy had brought me out there and a group, a mastermind group that I'm part of, to this conference and we had been at a couple sessions in the morning and went to lunch. We're sitting at this long kind of family style table and we're talking about families of character and all things, parenting and family life and Jake's sitting a couple seats down from us and all of a sudden he goes like hey, I overheard you talking about parenting and family life and this is like my jam. Do you mind if we chat? And I said, no, absolutely, come on.
Speaker 1:So that's where we got to know Jake and his passion behind. You know, helping parents with some of his design thinking strategies on just how to operationalize the family life and live regret free. So, jake, one of the things that was really intriguing to me about kind of your story is how you and your wife, when you were married, took like this gap year and traveled the world. Would you tell us a little bit about that to get started, Would I ever?
Speaker 2:This is one of my favorite topics, even though it was about a decade ago now. Still talk about it all the time, which kind of ties in with the whole theme anyway. Go now, still talk about it all the time, which kind of ties in with the whole theme anyway. But in 2014, my wife and I got married and we decided, actually a month or two before our wedding, that we wanted to do this, and it kind of came out of nowhere. Frankly, I'm not 100% sure. It wasn't like I've been dying to do this for like years and years and years. I had written a journal article, as I do. I like to do structured exercises and part of that was maybe we should quit our jobs and travel for a month or two months or something. Let's talk about it. And I had picked up my wife from a bachelorette party she had. We lived in San Francisco at the time not that it's super critical. That ties in a little bit and by the time we got home or to my apartment, we had decided, yeah, let's try this thing. That wasn't the end of the story, by the way.
Speaker 2:There was a point where we almost decided not to do the trip. I told my work four months before we left, because I didn't want to leave them in a lurch. And I'm like you know what I want to. They treated me well. I want to treat them well. And they came back to me and said well, what if we gave you six weeks? Or maybe it was two months, I forget now exactly.
Speaker 2:And by that point, my wife and I accelerated our plans from like that two-ish months that I proposed to like maybe a year, because we were doing some research on what people do and we wanted to take it. We almost chickened out and took it and the question we asked ourselves was will we regret this decision? And the clear answer that came back was absolutely we will regret not doing it now. We just got married. We had been married at this point when this conversation happened. Now we didn't have kids, we rented, we didn't have like a house, we had been saving up to theoretically buy a house in the Bay Area, which seems crazy to me now, because even then it was crazy, but now it's even more crazy.
Speaker 2:Anyway, all these things combined led us to say, yes, let's try this, even though we had lots of people who were supportive supportive, but maybe skeptical or fearful or like wow. We had some people who were like, wow, how can I do that? And then we had some people who were outright, were like you know, challenging our decision, saying, well, what about this? What if? What about getting your job when you get back? What about the safety of when you travel? What about all these things? Right? And we decided, let's, we can figure it out, we're smart, we're capable and let's just try this and see how it goes. So we did our trip. I'm happy to share any other details you like. I love talking about it, some highlights or whatever, but that's the gist.
Speaker 1:So this was a one-year trip.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so technically probably I think it was like 11 months, but I round up because it sounds better to say one year. But yeah, one year, gap year, one-year trip. We went to Europe, asia and South America. If you'll indulge me, I'll share a couple of highlights.
Speaker 2:Yes, we had a week stay in the Alps in Switzerland, which was our highlight for Europe. It was we happened to time it. We didn't. I don't remember if we explicitly or intentionally tried to plan this, but it was like flowers in bloom in the spring. It was like perfect weather. We was like flowers in bloom in the spring. It was like perfect weather. We were just like hanging out in the mountain hostels what they called it and just like taking little hikes each day and just like hang out and relaxing. It was awesome. Asia Japan, was our favorite. That was our favorite overall.
Speaker 2:For any of your listeners, if you like travel and you haven't been to Japan, it's a must have on your list. And there's just so many reasons the culture, the food. What I think stood out the most was you go to Europe and you're traveling. This is a different place. Often they're speaking a different language, but it felt very familiar compared to, like the US, japan. It's like oh, I am in a different country, that people act differently, like there's different norms. There's like I can't even interpret what these words are because they're in you know the Japanese language. I don't know what they call it, but it's not even letters Like it's like a whole foreign experience and it's still approachable, it's easy to navigate and get around, people are so nice and friendly. And then all the other stuff, like just the things I love about Japan, like food and the culture, and all this was fantastic. So that was a highlight there.
Speaker 2:And then the last one was New Year's Eve in Patagonia. We did a horseback riding trip for three or four days. Overnight we would take the horses to one little cabin, then we'd go to another cabin and it was in the foothills of the Patagonian mountains and it was incredible. It was us, my wife and I and one other traveler and our guide, and that was it, and we were just hanging out and riding horses. It was great. So those are a few highlights, just to kind of relive and stuff and share.
Speaker 1:I love that story for so many reasons. One you took a risk at a young age and just went. You know, maybe you thought we have our whole lives to work, right, like let's take a pause. Obviously, you were financially stable in order to spend the money to travel, but also to have, I would guess, a bit of a reserve in the bank.
Speaker 2:So that when you came back.
Speaker 1:If it took a minute to get your jobs back or whatever, then you'd be okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, definitely yeah. So we had and I'll share some numbers. This is 2015. Primarily, it was about $45,000, which is not nothing. It's definitely not a lot of money, but if anybody in your audience or you have a budget and you look at what you spend in a year, it's probably more than that.
Speaker 1:Honestly, Way more.
Speaker 2:So it's very doable. Now again, different times. I couldn't do this trip today because I'm not bougie, by any means please. But I probably wouldn't stay at some of the places we stayed. We would probably upgrade a little bit. There were some places that were a little sketchy. My wife likes to remind me she's like I cannot believe we stayed in that place with no windows and the mold under the bed and the whatever. But overall it was fine. We weren't slumming it the whole time, but at that point in time it's the easiest we'll ever have to travel.
Speaker 2:As you get older you want to do different things you probably are less comfortable with, like shared hostel dormitories or whatever and things like that. So we want to jump on it. And then the other financial piece was I wouldn't recommend someone just do stuff blindly to live a regret free life, for example. So if you have a decision like I really want to do that and if I don't do this, I'll regret it, you also don't want to regret taking a decision. So to your point, we definitely did have the financial stuff figured out and we had a runway and we stayed with my in-laws when we got back for a number of months while we were looking for a job which, if you're listening, rick and Mo, that was wonderful and great, and I'm glad we have our own situation, because it's tough living with other people in general, but especially parents.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, but it was worth it, right, absolutely, absolutely. That's the beauty of family is you can crash their pad for a couple months between transitions. It's hard and it builds character and all of the above right.
Speaker 2:It does, it definitely does, and we definitely got close. I knew them way better than I did before that, obviously, so it was good.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, one of the things you shared about was just in your travels together. As a newly married couple, you spent all your time together for 11 months. Think about that. In life right now, as parents who have jobs, we often complain that we're two ships passing in the night, because sometimes our lives are so divided because of our careers and running kids back and forth and everything. But you started off in tiny little spaces together and going everywhere together, like you said, unless one of you was sick or something, and then you had to go to the store to get some medicine for the other person.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. So I can expand on that briefly. The way that my wife and I talk about it is we compressed what was probably 10 years of like a normal married life into one year. So, like you mentioned, I would say 99, like literally and I'm an engineer by schooling anyway, and I mean it's literally 99% of our time was spent probably within arm's length, if not like in the same room and unless we were in the bathroom, and I think all of the places we stayed had separate bathrooms. Yeah, all the places we stayed at, separate bathrooms. So that was one example of when we weren't like within sight distance and then like that, like you mentioned.
Speaker 2:Thankfully, I didn't get sick, by the way, but my wife is. She likes to complain somehow how did you not get sick? But she got sick like twice. And I would go and get like a Gatorade in Thailand or something which is like outrageously expensive compared to anything else, because it's like an import thing or whatever. But I go and find these things and it's like oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, where am I Like? Where's my wife? This is weird. I'm out by myself.
Speaker 2:I've been with her for months and months and months, like be able to just talk to her at a whim and so, anyway, but the effect that that had was definitely a lot of conflict at the beginning. Honestly, we had a lot of what I would call like silly, silly fights, stupid fights or whatever. Yeah, and they weren't silly. Necessarily there's reasons for them, but it was really because travel is a stressful situation. Often you're in a new place. We started in Paris and we don't speak French and our host didn't speak English and it was a super tiny place. It all worked out, obviously, but it's just like you're navigating all these things under stressful situations that are new and novel, and it forced us to learn how to communicate better. So I wouldn't necessarily say I would prescribe people to go take a trip like this to like become better communicators, but it definitely worked for us.
Speaker 1:So yes, and you know, anytime in marriage at the beginning you have the stupid fights. So in my opinion it might be better just to have those fights in a beautiful foreign land.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:You have to kind of reconcile this, because you're in it for another 10 months and another nine months right, and so forgiving fast probably became a skill that you guys honed right. Like picking your battles and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Yep, Well, and one of the things I told my wife when we were dating was I don't read minds, so if you want something, please tell me, Even if you feel uncomfortable. I'd rather know and we can figure it out. And this kind of took it to almost an extreme where we would pick our battles, but also we're like you know what that little thing might grow into a big thing. So let me talk about it while it's little and then we can. We can figure it out and navigate it Like one example would be.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I would get self-conscious about walking around at night. I'm sure we were generally safe, but I feel like we were. We stood out in a lot of places if we were walking around. We're tourists, we're not from there, Right? And my wife has a history. I learned of being told that she's too loud, and so I learned about that by fairly regularly asking her to like hey, we're being a little loud and we had a few fights about that. But I got to learn about that, I got to understand that that's like a hot button issue and we found some ways to you know more subtly, suggest that and and be more aware and be on each other's wavelength.
Speaker 1:So totally suggest that and and be more aware and be on each other's wavelength. So Nice, gosh. Yes, I could see how that would compress like 10 years of marriage into one and you just fast track this relationship and and then you come back and then what did you? Did you get your jobs back? Did you do something totally different? The two of you?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, um, I ended up going back to the same company I was with. After a few months, there was a job opening in Milwaukee, which happens to be the state I was born in. But just by coincidence, everybody's like oh, you're from Wisconsin, I'm like, well, I lived in Florida, I lived in San Francisco, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. But we went back to Milwaukee. My wife was still looking for a job at the time, but she had never set foot in Milwaukee. By the way, this is maybe some of the trust showing itself here. She's an LA girl, la woman, and she had never set foot in Milwaukee until the day that we arrived to move in. We were staying with some friends for a while.
Speaker 2:Side note really interesting to me was we were on a Southwest flight with Henry Winkler, the Fonz, which is like a Milwaukee staple, and he was out of flights. That had to be a good, a good omen.
Speaker 2:But anyway, so yeah, so that's how we kind of transitioned back, but we took a few months to do some interviews. I was trying to do something else I wanted to do like consulting, but I didn't have the background. So, after trying that for a while, I started expanding my search back and that brought me back to my. So, after trying that for a while, I started expanding my search back and that brought me back to my company. And what I'll say is none of the fear. I'm not saying that I could guarantee this for anybody doing any kind of risky or even potentially risky move, like quitting your job. There's risk there, right, but our lives were in every way better for having taken this trip, and none of the fears that people shared with us or that we had ourself came to pass.
Speaker 2:I was getting paid more in a cheaper city. We had this great experience that we could then harvest these what I call memory dividends down the line still do today, in fact, there's a picture of my wife and I sticking our tongues out in Japan at a beer garden in Japan. Right now, in my little Google home, that's like this constant, like cashing in of those those memories that we did, if you will, so we can talk about memory dividends in a second, but got paid better, lived in a great spot. We had these experiences to share. We had a stronger marriage.
Speaker 2:In fact, the one thing that I was most worried about was like a gap on my resume was for the right companies, was a pro, not a negative. It's like, oh wow, you did that. Like you're the kind of person who, like, sees something they want and goes to get it, or you know whatever, fill in the blank, or oh wow, how'd you do that? Tell me about that. It makes me unique, or more unique in some ways. So, yeah, anyway, all across the board, everything improved from there.
Speaker 1:Such a risk worth taking? Definitely Awesome. Okay, tell me about these memory dividends. I think I know what you're talking about Just having this bank full of memories from this year-long experience together as a couple.
Speaker 2:Definitely Okay. So memory dividends are one of my favorite things to talk about recently. So there's a book called Die With Zero and if you haven't read it, it's really great. Anybody listening. I strongly recommend it. It's one of the two books I gave to all of my family this past Christmas. Bill Perkins, I believe, is the author, and this is where I learned this phrase memory dividend.
Speaker 2:And the concept is a lot of people think about dividends in terms of like money investing, like you'll get dividends from a stock, which obviously is true People get that but it's that concept applied to an experience, and so I forgot where I heard this. But one of the things that resonated with me is the trip. Any trip that you take doesn't have to be a big trip like my wife and I took, but any trip you take is typically the least enjoyable part of an overall experience or gives you the least amount of joy overall. The anticipation leading up usually gives you more joy from the anticipation of a trip. And then, especially if you have a long enough time horizon, all those stories that you have that you retell yourself, your friends, podcast hosts, you know whatever lets you relive that and start to feel some of those endorphins and all these other good feelings and it adds to your life in a positive way and that's like the dividend paying out over time, so you get to reap these benefits over and over.
Speaker 2:It's not just from this one experience, and in fact another piece of this which I think will be probably obvious to everybody is there's lots of things on a trip that go wrong and in the moment it's so frustrating or stressful or annoying or costs a lot of money or whatever. But what you remember is, oh, we got through that. Or can you believe that this thing broke down, that we had to hike five miles to get to the whatever, and it becomes like this positive thing that you can retell and becomes part of your story. So that's how I think about memory dividends. So I think about how can we, how can we build things? And then how do we actually extract those memory dividends over time?
Speaker 1:So good. It's making me think of the many trips I've taken with my kids and my spouse. And you're right, just the anticipation, the planning that leads up to the trip, is just awesome. The trip itself is good. But then coming back and people saying what happened, what was your favorite, and then for years kind of looking at those pictures, remembering you know, we flew into Hawaii and got in this rental car and we pull up to this magnificent resort and the valet guy's standing right outside waiting. He almost has his hand on the door and my daughter just power pukes all over the car. Is that a real story?
Speaker 1:Yes, and we're like stripping her of her clothes and put them in a sack and then wrap her in a towel. And we opened the door and he's like well, welcome, it looks like you've already been to the beach.
Speaker 1:And we were all like, yes, we just came from the beach because we didn't want him to know that she had vomit all over herself Like no she just was at the beach and so we like shuffled her through this resort to get to our room and then we all just burst out laughing, we're like no, and of course she felt better because she was just sick from the plane.
Speaker 1:But it's those types of things that just build this great unity in families too, and you can look back and share everybody's different experiences and stories. And so, again, when you're thinking about, do we do this, do we take this risk, will we have regrets about this? I think that's something to keep in mind. Right, these memories pay dividends over time, and that's just such great value when it comes to your marriage and solidifying your marriage, and reminding each other what you've been through right and what you're able to overcome because of your past, and then also your kids, giving them that hope that, oh man, just because something goes like this, look where we are now. So if we stumble upon some challenge or barrier in the future, we can draw on those memories from our past to remind us and give us hope that this doesn't last too long and, as a matter of fact, it might be really funny someday.
Speaker 2:Right, Well, and it's like the resiliency muscle, if you will, that you can build with your kids, or everything is figureoutable, or you know there's lots of these phrases around, but it's the same concept and it's teaching kids how to navigate challenges and things like that. And there's few places better than when you're traveling and there's so much out of your control or unknowns that you're, you know, like in my life, around my house, I'm like, oh well, we need to. Here's the bag. We already have like the list of all the stuff we need to bring. We just pack it in there. We know what we're doing and there's rarely something like, oh no, this thing happened. I should have brought this because we've encountered that before and then now we plan for it. But on a trip it's really hard to do because there's so many new things that you're experiencing. So and I think that's what makes it fun is the novelty, or is a big part of what makes it fun.
Speaker 1:Totally, I agree. You realize what you can do without. You realize how you can get things you didn't think you'd be able to get because you didn't speak the language or whatever, and it all is just part of this developing our character and helping us to overcome things and perspective and mindset too right.
Speaker 2:Definitely, definitely, yeah. So if I can talk about mindset for a minute, let's do it.
Speaker 2:I don't for any of your listeners. If you haven't listened to Andy's, I don't know, it was like three or four episodes ago. Whenever this comes out about mindset, I won't be able to top that. So go listen to that for like a masterclass on mindset. But mindset, I think, is really important.
Speaker 2:So one of the big things with mindset, with like a regret free life, is a lot of people I think hear oh, you can help me live a regret free life. Here's all the things I want to do. And I might look at your list and say, well, let's try to map this out. This is a big list. Maybe you can't do everything. So what I'm getting at is a lot of people hear regret-free and they think, oh, I did everything I ever thought I wanted to do. But what actually I think the mindset is more useful for living regret-free is here are the things I most want to do. Let me go tackle those challenges or have those experiences or whatever it may be. Go spend that time doing that thing in this order or in this priority and make a plan for it, knowing that I can't do everything, but being very satisfied and having no regrets about the things that you did because they were the most important to you. So, for mindset, I think priority or prioritization is kind of the key, and being really clear about what you want so one is priority and the other is actually even more fundamental is understanding or thinking about what you want.
Speaker 2:A lot of people, I think, drift through life and it's not even intentional, they don't even realize you're doing it. I'm sure I do it too to a certain degree and it's like well, I graduated high school. For many people, I went to college, because that's just what people do. I got a job. I got married, I had kids. Oh wait, what about? Like all this? Like I heard about this guy in this podcast one time who quit his job and traveled like that would have been cool. I never even stopped to think about that, or I never thought that that could be for me, or I never actually stopped to think is that something I want to try to do and find a way to do it? So, so anyway, that's the opposite of intentional. Is drifting for me? Um, so, to fight drifting, it's being intentional, thinking about what you want, and it's not knowing for sure, but it's having a direction, having a plan and trying to do something, what I would call on purpose, rather than just because it's your default mode and you're not stopping to consider.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you for outlining that, the mindset about going for what you want, the type of life you want to live, and being intentional about that. Not just kind of what happens when we get swept up in the culture and the society of parenting life and all of a sudden you're like 10, 15 years has passed and you're like, yep, we slept our kids to every spore and we were drained every night. And you know we're looking at each other like do I even know you anymore? To our spouse, like I call that like status quo living right.
Speaker 1:It's just this drifting mentality where you don't even, like you said, you're not doing it on purpose. You just kind of get swept up in the current and then all of a sudden it's like there can be this big awakening that, oh no, now I only have this much time left with my kids, or I'm not sure if I can save my marriage. Now I really have to do something. And then you're in kind of this crisis mode and we really want to prevent that, right.
Speaker 1:It's hard to help your, you know, make your marriage survive when you're at the point of, you know, drowning. So I appreciate what you're talking about and just taking some time to think of alternative ways to live as married couples with kids. You know, there's that linear path that we could all take. That's kind of, I say, the wide road right, like the road everyone else takes. But then there's this narrow road where, you know, few people choose it, but it's really offers the most freedom in our lives. And so I really was interested in you and Noel's story because it feels like you guys are narrow road people where you're like, hey, let's give this a whirl. You know what's the worst that can happen. As a matter of fact, I think there's so many other benefits that we could gain by making these different life choices that let's, let's just go for it.
Speaker 2:Definitely, in fact. So I'm glad you asked me about the trip. First, because that is one of the biggest touch points in our life to say, hey, this was a risk we took and it gives us permission or the confidence that, hey, this other thing which often isn't quite as big as just quitting both of our jobs, like putting our stuff in storage and traveling, but even still it could be a smaller effect but we can now say, hey, we did that trip, that worked out great, let's try this, because the worst that's going to happen is oh well, we just need to go back to the thing we were doing before it's not always that easy were doing before. It's not always that easy, but like quitting your job even to start a business, like was you know? Another big touch point for me was I'm going to regret not trying it, even though I loved my job. I truly did.
Speaker 2:I wanted to try starting my own business and I said let me. Let me try that, because if I don't like, when will I do that? I mean, maybe someday, there's still time but like I might as well try it now and if it doesn't work, I can to a certain degree quote, quote just go back to work again, understanding it's not necessarily that easy, but there will be an opportunity to go back to work and go back. And, by the way, I also want to say, if you do want to travel on that that wide path, as you call it, there's nothing wrong with that. I would just challenge people to consider why they're doing that and challenge them to do it on purpose rather than by rote or by default. So there's plenty of ways to live a great life, to live a regret-free life, and I think the best way to live a life with regret is to not live with intention.
Speaker 1:Yes, so true. I appreciate you saying that too. If you want to take the wide road, go all in right, say this is our plan for now and then also give yourselves the opportunities to make changes in your life, right, to make radical changes, sometimes that go. You know what I mean. Just recently, I've heard so many couples.
Speaker 1:I just gave a talk up at Annunciation Heights to, I think, 20, 25 parents and 25 couples and I heard some of them say like give their stories about how, hey, we were living here, we had our own business and all of a sudden we just really felt called to like shut it down and just move to Arizona, right, something like that, where it's like both of us just had this nudge like okay, now's the time. We're not sure why we're doing this, but we feel solid about it and we feel like it's such a strong nudge that if we don't say yes to this kind of call then we will regret it. And so I think sometimes we don't know what we're going for, but we feel together as a couple, so strongly about kind of this, this nudge that's pushing us in a direction that we both know. Okay, let's, let's try that and, like you said, worst case scenario, we come back and open up the shop.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly One thing. So I'm not pandering, I promise. But one of the things, one of the things I wanted to say is and just because you feel that call you should listen to it. It doesn't mean you have to do it immediately, especially if there's significant changes you need to make, but start making a plan for that. So one example is we feel similarly the way you described like moving to Arizona is how I feel about, and my wife feels about, moving to Denver area. So I'm not pandering, but we love Denver.
Speaker 2:We've only been there like a handful of times, two or three, but I love the mountains. I miss. I mean Milwaukee is great. There's lots of outdoor stuff. It's not the same as like the Rockies or the Sierra, right. So I mean we lived in California, love the mountains, love hiking, love outdoors. It's different here in Milwaukee. So that's like the one thing we'd love to change. But Denver way more expensive than Milwaukee. We could probably make it work. But we want to have more of a planned approach to that and that's okay too. And that's another way to live a regret-free life is to plan for it. It doesn't mean you have to do everything now. When I say regret-free, it doesn't mean without waiting, it's not impulse. You're not living just on an impulse, you're not living completely spontaneously, but you can plan for that stuff too. We're really, really big on plans.
Speaker 1:Yes, I appreciate you sharing that. This regret-free life doesn't mean throwing caution to the wind and just with every little idea or Instagram reel, you see your posts that you go. Maybe it's that right, or we don't want to regret this. No, it's being intentional about it, creating a plan.
Speaker 1:Jake, I have to tell you I was cleaning out my office about three months ago and you know I found all these binders, these three ring binders, and I thought what in the world are we keeping these for? What is in here? Whoa? I ran across this Langdon family planner basically this big three ring binder and it said our move from Texas to Colorado on the front, and my husband and I would meet up every single week and I remember we were living with our friend Deanna. We sold our house and decided we were going to move to Colorado and we sold it, and then we moved into our friend's house for three months before we made the trek to Colorado, and so I remember sitting at her little dining room table once a week and we would get out our planner and we'd have action items right Like which jobs have you applied for in Denver and which have you applied? Where are we with that? And I mean we were just tracking everything.
Speaker 1:It was so awesome to look back at that because it was like we felt called to move closer to our parents who lived in Nebraska. We knew we didn't want to live back in Nebraska at that time in our life when we just had one child, but we thought we went and visited Denver and toured around, went to a bunch of different cities and decided this is where we want to land in Centennial. But then we plotted out a plan right, okay, he's going to get a severance plan for the or severance package for this many months I'm going to be without a salary. We have this child. And then it was just written down in this notebook, just like okay, here we go. That's awesome it is. And we've continued that week after week and I know you and Noel also have some weekly rhythms where you connect and make plans and even with the regular happenings of family life, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I don't know how we could manage. Well, I like to be precise with my language as possible. I don't want to live without those meetings because it is so useful for us to stay aligned. So you have like the proverbial like honeydew list problem that you know, you hear about. I don't know if that's still a thing Maybe it is, but it certainly is like a trope from at least like my parents age or whatever. Like here's a list of stuff. Please do this honey, or whatever. We don't ever do that.
Speaker 2:What we do for our we have typically one meeting, sometimes two a week, 45 minutes, usually about 45 minutes, sometimes a little shorter, and the main event of that it's typically on a Monday is we're going to. We actually have like a probably overly complicated system of tracking all our to-dos but, to simplify, we basically look at what are the things we want to accomplish this week and we have a process to prioritize them and, using some of the design thinking tools that I learned in my previous work and use in my workshops and things called the evaluation matrix, without going through it, because it's kind of a visual thing, it basically helps you plot how much work or effort something will be versus how important it is to you, and that helps you determine, then, which order you should do something. So, for example, something might be really important to you but also a whole lot of work and something else that is maybe not quite as important, but almost as important, but way easier. You should obviously do that, and people can do this a little bit intuitively. This just takes all the guesswork out and makes it really easy to basically dump this effectively, dump this information into the system. You manipulate the what effectively are a note card or a sticky notes rather and then out pops your priority list and then you can just start tackling it and then our list is a combined list, by the way.
Speaker 2:So there's usually things that I would do or Noelle would do, but there's often things that either of us could do. So we just start from the top and work our way down during the week to say, oh, all right, I'll do that, I have time to do that at my whatever scheduled time for chores, and then maybe she'll work on something else that I would normally work on, because she can get a head start on it and it just brings us together in our plans instead of hey, I thought I asked you to do that thing a week ago. Why are you doing this other thing and this frustration that you know have happened in the past at some point? That is effectively impossible now, as long as we're following the plan that we make each week. Effectively impossible now, as long as we're following the plan that we make each week.
Speaker 2:And then, obviously I didn't state this, but I'll make it explicit these tasks are usually a mix of just stuff we have to do. Some stuff we want to do, like clean up, the like get rid of all those old baby clothes or whatever, is one of the things that we're trying to do. It's like a big thing, it's a mental thing and it's a physically big thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, and then there's like a big thing.
Speaker 2:It's a mental thing and it's a physically big thing, yes. And then there's like the longer term stuff that's less urgent but are on our like our five year vision or whatever, or our longer term vision for like experiences, like we need to start planning that trip because guess what, before we know it, we're going to be like a month away from when we want to take that trip and we're not going to have everything booked. It's going to be expensive, it's going to be expensive, it's going to be full, you know, whatever, whatever. So we use that to kind of factor or balance all those factors to then make a list of here's our hit list and then we tackle it. So that's like our main, our main event.
Speaker 1:That's your main event for your kind of connection, meetings, the two of you and your kids are not involved in that, because these are our tasks. Well, your kids are also three and six, so correct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at some point I could see them being involved to some degree. Yeah, I haven't figured out like how to do like. We do chores a little bit, but as they get older they might be more involved in those conversations, or at least tangentially involved. We might bring them in and say hey, here's some stuff on our list that we'd like to do, based on the things we've talked about as a family that we're trying to accomplish. I'd like you to do this, can you do this for me? Or whatever. That's probably what that will go.
Speaker 1:There's such great assets on our team and oftentimes we just kind of forget about them. But when they get older, especially above the age of reason, like seven or older they really get into these meetings. We've had over 250 of these weekly family huddles and our kids love an assignment. So we're taking a big 13-state road trip here in about two weeks where we're going to 13 states in 10 days and there's just no way my husband and I, working full-time jobs and doing what we do to manage our household, could plan it all ourselves. So we have outsourced some of the planning to our kids.
Speaker 1:So we've assigned them one day one city. Pick a restaurant. We need to have you pick something to do in the city. It gives them something productive to do and it helps them feel like a valuable member of our team, which is what we want. So I love what you're talking about with your kind of couple connection meetings where you use it sounds like even just something simple like sticky notes. You're not subscribing to some project management system like software or anything. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Well. So we use Notion to kind of house everything and like actually manage it. But you can definitely do this with literal sticky notes and a window or maybe a wall, although sometimes they don't stick as well to the wall. But I digress, but yeah, you could. We could easily do this with just sticky notes and in fact this is the way that I recommend people start at craft and commerce.
Speaker 2:I heard this concept of and I forget the phrasing, but it's like a system should start as simple as possible and then a successful complex system always starts. Or rather, let me say that again, a complex system starts as a simple system that works well and then you build onto it over time. So I wouldn't recommend anybody start with any kind of project management software of any kind, notion, none of that stuff which I love and works really well. But start simple with sticky notes and Sharpie markers and a wall and you can align easily on that. And then you can just take the sticky notes literally off the wall as you do them, and that'll work totally fine. And then, as you find that, oh, I wish I could do this thing or that thing or see it on the go or whatever, then you can start to build other complexity into the system if it helps you. But usually people like to just jump into these big, heavy things and then it doesn't work because it's overwhelming, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1:Yes, I like that. So a complex system starts with a simple system that works well.
Speaker 1:First, and then you build onto that. That's great, janet, someone I work with she says Jordan Reed and I my husband and I started just keeping a note that we share on our iPhone, with all of the to-dos that are needed, with all of the to-dos that are needed Errands, pick something up at Home Depot, whatever same thing you're talking about. And she said, like once we did that, it just like changed everything in regards to how productive we were, with just errands and chores and projects. Because if you're, you know, leaving work and you've got 20 minutes before you need to be home and you're going to be there in five minutes, you could check the list real quick, run to Target, get to the grocery store, pick up the fertilizer and boom, you've knocked three things off your list and your spouse doesn't feel like a team of one, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and in fact that's like I don't know. I'd have to ask Noelle specifically, but I think it is a huge win, big kudos, whatever If I do something that she would normally do, because I know that's a priority for her, it's on the list and I'm like, oh no, I already did even something simple like tiny beans. If you're familiar, it's like an app for sharing your kids' pictures with family. Basically, yes, and we've been doing that since our kids were born. Every day we have at least one picture of each kid and I love pictures, but sometimes that's overwhelming and my wife is the one who does it by default, but I can just see the relief on her face.
Speaker 2:I'm like I already did tiny beans and it's just those simple things that you know need to get done or we've chosen, we want to get done and finding ways to just help other people, just build such goodwill. And this actually now I'm thinking about it I've never thought of I don't think I've connected this the five love languages we did that a year or two ago and I think both of ours were acts of service. But that explains. So maybe it doesn't have the same effect with everybody necessarily, but it certainly does with us, because I think both of our top ones were acts of service, if I recall correctly.
Speaker 1:Yes, I could see how that would count. That's like a huge deposit in the love bank. When someone does something for you that maybe at that time you can't do for yourself or you're just not sure when it's going to get done, and I think you know, no matter what your love language is, you know acts of service or gifts or words of affirmation, whatever it is when someone does something for you, especially your spouse, it's just like feels good, because you feel thought of and you feel like this unity between the two of you, that we're, we're in this together, that I'm not alone, there's not this division like you talked about with the honeydew list, like these are your things and these are your things and I'm gonna be checking up on you. It's like no, we are a united team. These are things that we need to accomplish as a family system or family unit, and we're going to both contribute to that list so that we can crush this life.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Well, to me that's like being part of the same team. So this is if you want to go here, we can go here. But I strongly believe personally that people who are at least married actually fully married should share a budget myself and share accounts and share financial stuff. My view and just to caveat this, I understand there could be some good reasons not to that. I've heard that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I could understand why someone feels that way, but the reason I think it's so powerful is the same thing that you're talking about. You're on a team, my wife and I. It doesn't matter right now my wife makes more money than I do because I just started my business, but that doesn't mean that she gets to, she's like in control of the money, or that I can't do something fun once in a while, if we agree on it, or whatever. It's because we're on the same team. So these resources coming in or this time, which is a resource that we have, is ours as a team to spend, and so how are we going to share the responsibility together as a team?
Speaker 2:I don't see it, just like you said, like a honeydew list doesn't, wouldn't even compute for us, because it's like well, this is our house, our life, our family, our, our vision for the future. We want to do this together. It's not like you are doing this thing, it's we're doing this thing. You just happen to be taking the action at this time to do that, and I'll do this to help contribute things like that. So I view us as like a team trying to accomplish this great life. So how do we do that? The best way possible.
Speaker 1:Yes, so good, so good, and I agree with the financial splitting of the bank accounts, and that just gets a little bit harried and complicated like we were talking about before too. Right, right. If you can streamline your systems, make it simple, make it effective, make it work, then you can kind of expand into this larger life, right when you have more complex goals financially for your life and that sort of thing. So two heads are always better than one right.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree, that's why we chose each other for marriage so we would have a life partner to work out all the kinks and to help with. You know parenting as a united front and everything Not to live as a team of, but you know to use a business phrase, you know, one plus one equals three or four or five or more synergize.
Speaker 2:But so that's actually kind of my my silly dad type humor. Segue into asking you a question that my wife and I were actually debating recently. We don't feel that the processes that we have are too businessy or too cold or whatever, but I have heard from a number of people that they don't like having these meetings or they don't like making plans and goals because that feels like it's too businessy. I have my opinion, which you could probably guess and you're probably aligned with me, but I'm wondering have you encountered this? What is your thought and what do you tell people to get them over that hump? That, hey, having a scheduled meeting with your spouse is a good thing on your calendar, so it's like blocked or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think the the best answer I have for that is my own personal story. I is where, hey, I did the no meetings and, um, you know, talking to each other as you pass each other in the hallway at night or texting each other and saying, hey, I think we really need to have a date. I'm feeling like really disconnected from you and having these like short little bursts of conversations that never really ended in what I truly desired, which was to for something to be planned, thought about and then followed through on, and so I've lived long enough without them and then had enough of a runway with them on a consistent basis to say I will never go back to the way things were Right.
Speaker 1:So I think you and Noel telling your story about just the benefits of having these types of meetings. That's, that says it all.
Speaker 1:You know, but I have encountered several couples who said, like Jordan, that is not me, do not invite me to your summer planning party. We don't plan, we just free Willy the summers. And then I'll hear from him a month later and they're pulling their hair out. They're like these kids are home 24-7 and I don't know what to do. I can't get out. You know a break from them. They're complaining, they're bored and I'm like if you plan a little bit of planning and some of these systems and operationalizing your family just like you do your business, it just sets you free your family, just like you do your business, it just sets you free. So, a little bit of that structure, you know, and the planning and spending the time and investing that 45 minutes a week to free up your time and get everybody engaged on your team, it is worth it. 120%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we're preaching to the choir, at least here, but if anybody out there is listening and they think, well, I just like to be spontaneous, or that feels too rigid, like what, if something changes the way my wife and I talk about it is, we like to have a default. So when we make decisions about especially systems or things that happen repeatedly, like dinnertime for example, our default is six o'clock. We're eating dinner. Now, sometimes that doesn't work out, that's okay, we can roll with the punches, but we don't have to think about this every single dinner, every day. Well, when do you think it's going to be ready? We don't even have to ask that question because we know the default is at that time, and that extends to basically anything. So we like to make a decision that we can change, but make a decision about something that needs to be decided early so that we can then plan for it. Now we don't have to think about it, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah, the other thing is, I believe planning or systems, or you could probably substitute lots of words, but that actually gives freedom.
Speaker 2:A lot of people think, well, if I scheduling all my time, then I can't be spontaneous and I actually say no, actually you now know what you're giving up, if you're going to use that time for something else and you can move it around and you can say, well, okay, I'm going to do this thing I was planning to do. That's important to me here, because this thing only happens at this time and but now I know I can get that thing done because I know what I'm giving up. A lot of people just again kind of drift and they make decisions without thinking about the bigger picture, which often, frankly, is probably fine. But if you do that too much, then you really start to wonder like, well, where'd all my time go? You know? And then you look back with regret.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely I. You're right, You're preaching to the choir. This is structure and planning and putting things on the calendar is not a straight jacket. It will not kill your personality, it will not kill your creativity. In fact, it's the opposite For me. It has set me free.
Speaker 1:I was telling Andy, when I came back from that craft and commerce conference and really got serious about structuring my time at work and paring everything down, kind of identifying the critical few from the trivial many, and just like cutting a lot of the things I was doing or wasting time on out, and got real focused. It freed up all this white space on my calendar that wasn't scheduled and I ran out. I jumped in my car, ran out to the music store, bought an, rented that alto saxophone and I've been playing this instrument. It's like giving me permission to get in touch with my creative side and like do something that I had fun doing growing up as a, as a child, as a 45 year old woman. You know like structure sets you free, right, Having a plan frees up you know your time and also your spirit, so that you can really kind of be that person that you were meant to be.
Speaker 2:Definitely Um, the when you. When are we going to get a solo or something? Are you going to show us your alto sax skills? It's something else.
Speaker 1:I haven't figured out how to get to the upper register yet. I'm like, how is it I only can get to like two octaves? I used to be able to know all these like back keys and stuff, and now it feels so foreign. But I'm just having fun with it, right, it's just like let's just make this a good time. Family life is meant to be exceptional, right, we don't have to be in a straitjacket as parents and just punch the clock, go to work, come home you know, I call it three hots and a cot, right, three hot meals, one, you know, throw them in the bed and then put them in the shower, type of thing. It's like we're meant to dance with our kids, have a good time with our kids, eat ice cream, like, do all these things. But if we're unstructured and unscheduled and, like you said, drifting, all of a sudden we just are left with regrets. Right, we're going. How did we spend our time?
Speaker 2:Definitely. If I can expand on that, please, that makes me think of this quote that I heard from, I think, ryan Holiday, who runs the Daily Stoic, and he talks about stoicism a lot. He's really great and it's this concept of you don't die at the end of your life only. You're actually dying like every day, every moment of every day.
Speaker 2:And what he means by that and it's intended to be provocative and kind of like like grab your attention but what he means by that is like the me right now that is saying these words will never be again and and I'm changing constantly and it is so true, especially for kids. I mean, I don't need to tell any parent this, but like it's like I can't believe. You know, my, my six year old, is already six and she's going into first grade and she's so big I'm looking at pictures. I'm like I can't hardly even remember her like that little, tiny baby in my arms in that picture and it goes so fast, and like the little baby, her for lack of a better word is dead, you know, and she will never be that little again. And so the other thing that I think about there, that really like hone this in for me and maybe it will for some of your listeners is you know, there will be a last time that your kid ever wants you to lay in their bed with them and read a book.
Speaker 2:And thankfully I'm not there yet, but it's coming, if you think about it. This is another. I know I'm throwing a lot of stuff. This is great, but there's a blog called Wait but why? It's a really great blog and he writes these usually really long articles with some visuals. He's really good at kind of explaining these cerebral concepts with good visuals, silly stick figures, but they're effective. And it's the long tail, or the tail end. The tail end, I believe, is the name of this article, and in it he talks about how, I believe 93% of your time with your kids will be spent until they leave the house.
Speaker 2:Or let me rephrase that by the time your kids leave the house, you'll have spent approximately 93% of the time you will ever spend with them on this earth and like. So that means my six year old is already a third of the way done. Basically, you know rough math and like I feel like I just got started. You know rough math and like I feel like I just got started, and so so then, how I use this is one, just to keep that in mind. As you know, as you're saying, you should be dancing with your kids and whatever Like. My inclination is often like kid, I just can, I just like sit in silence for a minute Like I love you. But like can I get a break?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I mean, and and I'm I'm dad, and I feel like I'm pretty involved, but it's even worse for my wife.
Speaker 2:And then there's this concept of mom guilt that I'm not going to explain to anybody because I'm not a mom, but if, like, that's a thing my wife was telling me about that earlier as well but like mom guilt and all these things. So what I'm saying, though, isn't that you need to give into that and just do all the things that your kids want to do, or seize every moment. That's not what I'm saying, and that's not what I don't. I don't think that's what, like Ryan Holiday and these other people are saying with these phrases, but what they are saying is think about those experiences that you want to have, think about the time that you have now, because the future isn't guaranteed and you never know what's going to happen, and you don't want to regret that you didn't do that thing. So, like, what can you do to, like, seize the moment, basically, and again, also knowing that you don't have to do everything. Sometimes what you need is a break, and that's okay too. I just want to give everybody permission that sometimes you just need a darn break.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's right, that's right. Again, kind of circling back. If you want a break, the best way to a break is a good scheduled break, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, can I jump on that for a second?
Speaker 1:Yes, please do.
Speaker 2:Okay. So a break. And when I say a break it's not doom scrolling on Twitter or whatever, right, I mean that may be some kind of a break. It may give you a little bit of that. You know that rush, that escapism, that whatever. But that's probably probably not like filling you up. It's not filling your cup, it's not really regenerating those like your tank, if you will.
Speaker 2:So plan for a spa day would be like a stereotypical, bigger thing, but it doesn't have to be that right. You can go walk around the block by yourself. You can go call a friend and talk to them. You can schedule a little coffee date with a friend. You can go just sit and read a book. You can just go sit and you can say this is the time that I want to recharge in my day. This 30 minutes, this whatever time, whatever time, 15 minutes, it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 2:But plan for some of that so that you can say, oh, okay, I was actually planning to relax, but you know what I'm going to. This is what we were talking about before with schedules. If something comes up and you're like, oh, you know what, the light is really good, we should go ride around the block with your new bike before the sun goes down. I'll do this later. I I'll just switch this around and I'll go do that, and that's how you can be spontaneous. That's how you can um, you know, live the moment with your kids and get a break for yourself, while it's hopefully a higher quality break than just escaping on your phone or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, which is like the default escape, right. It's like, okay, all of a sudden I'm to this point and I'm just going to go with what is quickest and most available right now, and that's social media. And, like you said, it never fills your cup. You get 20 minutes into the scroll and you're like I learned nothing new about any of my friends or family. I might've gone down a rabbit hole and bought something random because of some marvelous marketing, you know, and then I feel regretful about that because I wasn't planning on doing that. It's just like the snowball.
Speaker 2:So another kitchen gadget, no doubt right From TikTok or whatever.
Speaker 1:Totally so. Having that scheduled time, that downtime. I like that suggestion is that you put that on your calendar. Also, like Andy Hickman talks about a lot as far as from going from overwhelmed to ease, is that when you're thinking in your mind and you have all of these thoughts going like, when am I going to get a break? I just need a break. I'm so overwhelmed. But you don't have a plan. You haven't ejected that thought onto paper or onto your calendar.
Speaker 1:It just continues to create this mental load that weighs you down and keeps you from being productive in that present moment, at dinner or whatever the board meeting that you're running for your organization or whatever. So there's no guilt in putting on your family calendar mom's respite right, dad's respite time or whatever and, like you said, be free to move that around. If, like, oh, there's an eclipse tonight, nevermind, or whatever, you can do that. But otherwise it's not going to happen and you need that hope. You need, as a parent, to be like hey, if it's tough right now, I know that in two days I've got this thing scheduled and I can see it in the calendar. So that gives me some relief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome, so good. Can I share one more kind of tactical tip? We're kind of talking a little cerebral A lot of the time. We're getting into some tactics. I have one more tactic for regret free living that I really want to share.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:This is my one of my favorites. Um, I like giving credit where credit's due. I didn't come up with this. I think I heard it from the choose FI podcast, which is about financial independence. That's a whole nother topic we could talk about someday, and that's been a big part of my life, um, but they talk about, uh, what are you optimizing for?
Speaker 2:And so, um, the, the way that I think about, like, how I make decisions, when I'm thinking about should I, should I spend time with my kid right now, cause they're asking me to to play like a game or whatever, I think if my reaction is I don't really want to do that, I'm just tired, I can stop and think, well, what am I optimizing for? Am I optimizing for, you know, making good memories? I'm optimizing for getting a break. Am I optimizing for, you know, whatever, whatever it may be, I'm just tired. Then I can come up with a better solution for it, kind of like what we were talking about. So, to tie in with what we were just talking about, that helps clarify what you might want to actually do, to be more intentional with solving that challenge or that thing that you're trying to solve for. So, if your inclination is no, I don't want to do that. Then your thought is well, maybe I shouldn't be on my phone, maybe I should go do one of those other things we just talked about, or maybe it's you know what I'm optimizing for this. But I should be, or I want to be, optimizing I don't like to say should, when I, when I can avoid it. What I want to be optimizing for is time with my kids, because they're asking me to play right now and I want to, I want to encourage that, because one day again they're not going to ask me to play one day, right, yes, and so you can make that decision.
Speaker 2:And then that zooms out to other things, like we talked about, like travel, like one of my favorites, that. So here's a few threads that are going to intersect here for a second. So I don't want to spend money if I don't need to, right, I mean, nobody does. I don't think we want a good deal. We don't want to waste money. I also don't want to waste my time and I also want to have great experiences, and there's all these things that we've kind of talked about intersecting with something like a trip you might take.
Speaker 2:So then, how do you determine what hotel to stay at, for example. And my guess would be a lot of people are looking at the prices and they're saying what's the cheapest place I can stay that's at least at the level of hotel that I want to stay at, or whatever and then they're factoring in other things, and there's nothing wrong with that if that's what's most important to you. But what I like to do is say and usually when I catch myself I say oh okay, I can save 50 bucks at that hotel, but let's compare it to the other options, like this one downtown, near all the things we want to do. It's 50 more bucks, and maybe we have to pay for parking. So then that really makes it a hundred bucks over a few nights or whatever.
Speaker 2:But then you can say what am I optimizing for? Well, right now I'm optimizing for money, but that's not what I want to optimize for. Yes, it's a factor, but I want to optimize for experience. Or I want to optimize for a better memory so I can have a better memory dividend or whatever. No-transcript makes a better experience, and then you enjoy that more. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think you get the point. But what am I optimizing for? I love that phrase.
Speaker 1:I love that phrase. That is a great tactic for living a regret-free life because you're slowing down. What I hear when you're talking about that is you're just slowing down. You're not just making a knee-jerk reaction or just going price tag only because that would be just purely optimizing for money, but you're saying like let's think about our time. That's really important. Our experience like I know how I am If I have to get on a crowded subway in New York city and travel that for an hour and a half like I'd rather just stay here and cut out the train time so that we have more actual time on the ground, right, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yep, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And if you did this in so many areas of your life right Renovating your home or the choice that you're making for school that, oh yeah, we can send it to the neighborhood school. It's two blocks away. Are we optimizing for proximity only?
Speaker 2:Right, are we?
Speaker 1:thinking about the quality of education. Would we give up a you know, jump in our car and commute a little ways for better teachers or, you know, better experience. That's great, that's a fantastic, like one liner right. What are we optimizing for to get us thinking deeper about the decisions that we make to live truly regret-free lives?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So good, Jake. Well, tell us about these workshops, because I can just tell, actually, when you were talking about what you and Noel do on a on a weekly basis and like the checklist, the, the to-do lists and stuff and your um sticky notes on the window, I saw this like like glow about you, like like back to your corporate days of like workshops and trainings, and I was like, oh, I just saw it, he has this gift for like explaining things and teaching and training people on systems. So tell us about your workshops that you do for parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so thanks for that. The workshops are. I'll actually zoom out just a little bit and give really brief context. So design thinking is the world I was in in my corporate job before I left, and that's basically using a designer's mindset in non-designer spaces. So to your life, to HR in a company, to whatever. So designer's usually about designing a product or an experience, typically, and those things apply to other spaces. But people haven't until relatively recently thought about that.
Speaker 2:The quintessential tool in a designer's toolbox is a piece of a sticky note and a Sharpie marker, because that's how you can manipulate ideas, get them out of your head. So that's kind of like the underpinning of all of the stuff that I do is let's get stuff out of your head and make sense of it, because as soon as you externalize it, it changes your relationship with it and it makes it more concrete. Because when you probably have like let's take a to-do list, for example, where you're like thinking about all the stuff you have to do this week and it's frequent that you might get overwhelmed You're like, oh my gosh, I have so much to do. But as soon as you just write it down, forget sticky notes, just write it on a piece of paper. As soon as you take those ideas that feel overwhelming and make them concrete because our brain is not good at holding so many things in our mind at one time take them and externalize it, it's going to be a lot easier to make sense of what you need to do. You're going to feel a lot less overwhelmed. It's gonna be a lot more clear. So I use that general overall mindset for our workshops.
Speaker 2:And then the second thing I'll mention is the workshops really were born out of many of the things that my wife and I have done over the years. So we have what we call the state of the unions. So usually quarterly we will do at least a few hours of like a workshop that typically I design, with some prompts or some exercises. It may be okay. Let's revisit our well, in our case actually, it's more than five years, but our, say, our five-year plan for experiences, or for us it's what do we want to do with the kids before they leave the house? And it's like safari, maybe on that list. And where does that go? It's probably not next year when they're three and six, because that's gonna be expensive. If we can assuming we can do it it's gonna be expensive. Maybe they get eaten by a lion? Obviously probably not, but like will they appreciate it, etc. Etc. And you can kind of plan that out.
Speaker 2:So I'm getting into maybe a little too many details in the weeds but, as you can tell, I'm excited about this stuff. But these are the types of things that my wife and I have done and I've now designed a kind of whole workshop experience that starts with big picture. So what's your vision, what are the experiences that you wanna have with your family, and when, approximately? And again, you're not saying we're definitely gonna do this on this date. You're just saying here's some of the stuff we'd like to do. Here's roughly when. So you can start to make a plan for it. But once you have that vision and you have it aligned with your family, then you can start taking action on like a monthly, daily, whatever basis. We have a plan to turn the vision into your actual life. So a lot of the stuff we've talked about, we go into more detail basically.
Speaker 1:That is awesome because that is truly living an intentional life to stretch out, to cast out this vision of what you want. I love how you talked about the categories right Experiences with your family before your kids leave the home that is very specific. You would be very intentional to list out what you want there. Specific. You would be very intentional to list out what you want there. But then to have someone who has been trained in how to kind of motivate people towards their vision be your guide like that sounds awesome. I mean, josh and I we have our weekly family huddles and we do quarterly planning sessions where we go away to a hotel for a couple of days.
Speaker 1:But sometimes you lack the tool right and the structure around how to organize your thoughts and your visions and then to create next steps so that you are actually crushing these goals and you're taking them off going. Wow, we're doing what we said we were going to do. This feels really good and like again, this no regrets type of living. So I think this sounds wonderful. These workshops how would people get ahold of you if they wanted to sign up for them or learn more about them? What's the best way for people to find you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks. So I'm at intentioncraftcom and I've actually what I'd really love if anybody out there listening is like, hey, this sounds interesting, or even this topic sounds interesting. I'd love some help thinking through my own goals. Or I don't even have goals, I don't know where to start. Or I have these goals I haven't been able to like. I feel like they'll never happen. I'd love to talk to you about those, maybe give you some advice or coaching. Specifically, so I do offer complimentary coaching. You can find that on my website Also, I'll have information up there about the workshops if you want to jump into those. But yeah, short answer to your question intentioncraftcom. Or you can email me at jake at intentioncraftcom.
Speaker 1:Awesome, and all these links are in our show notes. So if you want to just scroll down below this episode, whatever podcast platform you're listening to, you can just hit the button and go straight to Jake's website and schedule one of those complimentary coaching calls. Don't be thinking also like, oh I don't know, maybe we don't qualify or maybe he's going to loop me into some expensive thing and then I'm going to be trapped. No, I can tell by meeting this guy in person. This is not what that is about. This is about serving you, helping you kickstart the intention to your life as married couple and parents to your kids, so that you can truly live regret-free in this family life. And, guys, family life is meant to be exceptional. It's not meant to be a drifting type of life that you do on your own. We're meant to live in community and get help from one another.
Speaker 1:Jake is offering that at intentioncraftcom, so check it out. You will not be sad that you spent your time on his website. I was on his site before we jumped on this call and I was looking at your trips, the pictures of, like your favorite places that you've traveled, and great blog articles. You're an awesome creative writer and very captivating stories that you have on your website. So there's a lot of value to gain by engaging Jake at Intention Craft, so be sure to check him out on his website. Jake, thank you so much for sharing your experiences, your wisdom and your tactical tools for us to live a more intentional and regret free life. We really appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, jordan, this has been great as well, and thanks for giving me a chance to relive my memories and build those memory dividends back up even more. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Awesome Guys. We will catch you on another episode of the Families of Character show real soon. Do me a favor and share this episode with others. There is not a person in the world that would say that they want to just regret the type of life that they lived. All of us have a desire to live regret-free, so please don't just keep this to yourself. Forward this on to family, friends, people in your neighborhood, and make sure to spread the message so that we can all live that type of life that we desire for our families. We'll catch you real soon on another episode of the Families of Character Show. Thanks so much.
