The Families of Character Show
We serve parents who want more for their family. Our show offers research-based parenting solutions to the most common family problems, real-life parenting stories, and authentic support. The host, Jordan Langdon, is a wife, mother, and Licensed Clinical Social Worker who validates what parents go through and offers practical actionable steps parents can implement today to transform their families in joy and unity. Guests are experts in their field of work and provide high-value material for parents and families.
The Families of Character Show
Ep. #153 - Navigating the Mother-Daughter-in-Law Relationship with Janet Quinlan
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The mother-daughter-in-law relationship stands as one of family life's most complex dynamics, often fraught with unspoken expectations, misunderstandings, and deep emotional triggers. In this revealing conversation, master coach Janet Quinlan pulls back the curtain on why these relationships become strained and offers transformative strategies to move from tension to genuine connection.
We discuss:
• Healthy mother-daughter-in-law relationships involve recognizing you're building a new relationship that takes time to develop
• "Empathetic curiosity"
• Setting boundaries from a place of love
• Emotional independence
• Reframing negative thoughts
• Prayer for your in-law is a powerful practice that softens resentment and opens your heart
Be sure to check out Janet's course, The Mother/Daughter-in-Law Dynamic. For more resources, visit JanetQuinlan.com.
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Welcome back. Families of Character listeners. I'm Jordan Langdon, your host, and today oh yes, today we are diving into one of the most delicate, emotional and sometimes downright tricky relationships in family life. That's right the mother and daughter-in-law relationship. Now listen, before you clutch your pearls or start having flashbacks at the most recent family get-together, just hang with me, okay, because we're about to bring in some serious wisdom. Our guest today is no stranger to the Families of Character show.
Speaker 1:Janet Quinlan, master coach, speaker and host of the Finding Joy in Marriage and Motherhood podcast, is back with us Now. You might remember Janet from episode 135, where she shared 10 lessons learned about marriage. Let me tell you that episode quickly became one of our most downloaded episodes of 2025. She has a real gift for just cutting through the noise and speaking straight to the heart with truth and grace and practical tools you can actually use.
Speaker 1:So today, janet and I are pulling back the curtain on the most common struggles between mothers and daughters-in-law. So we're going to cover things like comparison control, unmet expectations, poor communication, boundary blunders and what happens when a husband and wife aren't on the same page with family dynamics. I know, yikes, we can all relate to that on some level, I'm sure. But here's the good news Janet is going to teach us about emotional independence, and this is an absolute game changer skill that really can turn this relationship from strained and stressed to peaceful and then deeply rewarding. So we're going to talk about how to let go of heavy expectations, how to set thoughtful, respectful boundaries and how to truly foster understanding, patience and connection over time. So, whether you're a mother-in-law, a daughter-in-law, or you're just someone listening who wants better relationships, you're going to want to stay with us until the end, because Janet shares some really powerful strategies that could change not just your relationship but the entire atmosphere of your family life. So let's get started. Welcome back to our show, janet Quinlan.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be back.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is wonderful, janet. I know a lot of women listening today are wondering like what does a healthy, peaceful relationship between a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law even look like right? Can you paint us a picture of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and unfortunately I think it's in the minority rather than the majority. Most of the women that I coach, whether they're older women like me with daughters-in-law, or younger women with mothers-in-law they're all struggling. So I think this is a great topic. What does a good relationship look like? Well, first we have to get to know each other, and sometimes we forget that part of it. When we're a daughter-in-law coming into the relationship, we think, well, he's in love with us, so she will naturally love us.
Speaker 2:When we're the mother-in-law and our son is bringing a daughter into this family, we often think, well, I'd like to love her, I hope to love her, but maybe we feel a little nervous about it, and a lot of that is because we have had a relationship with our son for, you know, at least you know probably 22 years, maybe even longer, a little bit shorter sometimes and there's a rhythm to that relationship. And so a good relationship with your daughter-in-law is where you welcome her in and she feels like a daughter. But we also want to be careful that we don't try to usurp the mother's role in her life, because we're not her mother. We want to treat her like a daughter and the daughter-in-law will treat the mother-in-law, you know, like a mother as best she can. But there's this bond between our own mother that we often feel a little nervous about breaking in a sense, not even completely, but just even stressing. So, adding to that a good relationship is where both know boundaries, they know where they can step in and where they need to stay out. We're thoughtful about each other's needs.
Speaker 2:So, as a daughter-in-law, I am thoughtful that, you know, probably my husband had a very close or just even a relationship with his mom. Even if it wasn't close, it was a specific relationship and they both kind it was a specific relationship and they both kind of depend on that relationship. And, as the mother-in-law, recognizing that he has a new woman in his life and it's awfully difficult when two women love the same man, even though it's different ways. You know, love is a very strong emotion and so just recognizing that she is a part of his life and that we'd be very careful that we don't take things personally.
Speaker 2:Very often, you know, especially in the beginning, we're just trying to figure each other out. It takes a long time to get to know someone and I think we automatically think that we should just get along and be best friends, but that takes a long time. So recognizing that that takes time. And then I think the ultimate thing is probably the most difficult thing, and that is that we have unconditional love for each other is that we have unconditional love for each other, that we recognize the other as a child of God, that we recognize that the other is in some way important to that man in the middle I call him the man in the middle and that we just really honor that and not try to step over that boundary and not try to step over that boundary.
Speaker 1:Yes, so many things are coming to mind as you talk about what a healthy relationship looks like between a mother-in-law and a daughter-in-law, and one of the things that stood out is the man in the middle. If you are listening and you have a mother-in-law, you're thinking, yeah, my husband, that's him. He often says, like this is really tough. I feel caught between a rock and a hard spot. I don't know if I'm the rock or the hard spot, but they do have this really difficult role of kind of maybe managing communication between their mom and their wife and and just um, just the way you described that man in the middle, I think that really resonates with me in the way of having compassion and empathy for our spouse too and helping to use that uh, man in the middle kind of um idea to have compassion on my husband's mom, right, and remember that he's caught.
Speaker 2:Right and I think for all the men who are listening, they have to remember that. You know they leave their mother and father right and they cleave to their spouse and so while a man has probably the woman in his life that he's pleased the most has been his mom, probably for all those years, when you get married you still honor your mother, you still love her, but she is not the first priority anymore. The wife is the first priority. And you know, different relationships kind of manifest, getting to know each other differently. For some and I think I've heard marriage counselors say this, if you have a problem with your mother-in-law, have your husband talk to her. Maybe that works.
Speaker 2:What I find that is that actually puts him more in the middle and it almost eliminates a little bit more intimacy in relationship with our mother-in-law or our daughter-in-law and you know, just getting comfortable with communicating our needs with her, whether she's the daughter-in-law or their mother-in-law, just going right to her. Because then I think we take away, you know, this idea of who do you belong to. We just are forming a new relationship. And when you form a new relationship, trust is one of the most important things in the relationship and if, if we're not communicating directly and instead putting the man there in the center, then we're never going to really, you know, form that trust, that bond. Sometimes it might go wrong, but sometimes it might go right and we just have to, you know, really pray for her and then also move towards her, rather than putting him, like in that center of things.
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense to me.
Speaker 1:In counseling we call that triangulation, right when you introduce a third person that really doesn't need to be in the mix and it causes a lot of friction between the two people that need to be communicating. So I like your advice of going straight to your mother-in-law or your daughter-in-law and having a gentle conversation. I'm sure you'll talk to us in this episode about how to go about that, with some filters in mind and some compassion, so that you know defenses aren't up and you don't start off on the wrong foot and kind of eeks, you know, uh-oh, that blew up. You know you also have experienced yourself with your own mother-in-law um, back when you first got married, right? So can you tell us a little bit about your experience with your mother-in-law?
Speaker 2:Yeah, she didn't like me at all from the beginning Now. So this is almost 41 years ago Okay, it actually is 41 years ago when we started dating Um and I didn't have the maturity, uh, as a young woman, to appreciate what Michael and I were sort of putting her through, in a sense. Um, we met in October and eight weeks later we were engaged, um, and he was calling her up and telling her that he was marrying this girl and um, she was very close to Michael of all, he's one of five but his father passed away when he was a senior in high school and um, she really relied on him and depended on him, and so I think that and I really do believe this now that no woman would have been okay for her, but, instead of seeing it that way, that she just had this, it was hard for her to let go of Michael. Um, I made it mean something about me, right?
Speaker 2:She didn't like me. She, you know, was critical of me what's the matter with me? And and I tried harder and harder, and the harder I tried, um, the more disappointed I was, because she really didn't want a relationship with me. She just didn't. Um, and a couple of years into our marriage, michael, I was crying about it, as I frequently did, and Michael said you know, she's doing the best she can, and of course that made me angrier because I thought this can't possibly be the best that she can do. Right, she doesn't speak to me or she's critical of me and um, but he was really correct and I think that this is a phrase that, if we can apply almost to everybody, but especially to those around us that we want to love or that are closest to us, they are doing the best that they can, and sometimes that best doesn't look like we think our best would look. But actually here I was not doing my best, because I was being critical of her, because she was critical of me, and you know all of that.
Speaker 2:So when he said that, it really put a different perspective on things for me. She had a very tough life, a life that I didn't have, and you know we read in the gospel that, you know, for those who have been given, more will be, you know, required or asked. And really that's what God was asking of me was I was given a lot of stable relationships in my life and she wasn't, and so he was asking me to be patient and kind, you know, and loving with her, when maybe she couldn't be that with me. So, um, I really remember in the beginning of our marriage saying, uh, when I have daughters-in-law and, by the way, I have three now and two sons-in-law, I will make sure to remember this Number one they're doing the best they can. And then also all the things that I kind of was critical of, I won't do so. It was very helpful in a way.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, just having that lens and accepting that you know truth from your husband, I think is a beautiful way to get started in marriage is just to say remind ourselves that this woman is doing the best she has with the resources that she has access to. And in your case, wow, you know, eight weeks she kind of knew of you and then all of a sudden you're going to be the love of his life and she's going, he's going to leave me and cleave to her and I don't even quite know this woman, you know. So having some understanding and compassion definitely changes that filter with which we kind of put their words and their behavior through and can definitely help. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a term in coaching that we call empathetic curiosity, and that is when we look at someone with empathy for who they are and what they're going through, but we're curious about, okay, why do they act the way they're acting? Um, rather than judgment and you know, kind of being closed off. And so if, if women can look at each other, what side of the man they're on, and have empathetic curiosity for the other woman, I think that a lot of problems in the in-law relationship will be resolved, because we won't make things mean something to us that they don't necessarily mean. Yeah, so I just think that that's important to look at the other person with eyes of empathy and curiosity.
Speaker 1:I love that. Just a spirit of like, where is this coming from for them, versus why is this, why is she attacking me or, you know, making it personal to us. I think that's a very common mistake in this dynamic between a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law is oh this is offensive, this is she meant to hurt me.
Speaker 1:You know she's out to just get me Right. We do what I call MSUN we make stuff up or making stuff up, and that always goes poorly when we assign meaning to somebody's words that are personally offensive to us. And so I like the spirit of curiosity and even asking for clarification. The way you said that really kind of hurt my feelings. Can you tell me what you meant by that? Because I'm over here in my head kind of making things up and I'm probably way overdoing it. But would you mind explaining what you really meant by that? I think that can be a healthy way to avoid that making stuff up and get back to what you talked about, the empathetic curiosity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also think that it helps us. I mean, I think you have to have a lot of courage to do that, but this is hopefully a long game, right? You get married. You're just married for life, and so if we start just like tucking resentments under the rug and we just don't really, you know, get clarity, um, then it just builds and builds, and builds, um, and I think you know, one of the things that we both struggle with is and I know I for sure did was, um, having certain expectations of what my mother-in-law would look like and and, or what my daughters-in-law would look like, and so my three daughters-in-law couldn't be more different than I am.
Speaker 2:I'm like, wait a minute, what? Right? And I'm very, very close to all my children. So it's not because, you know, their husbands didn't love me or anything. I mean, we have very close relationships, but I can see how each of those women is perfect for that son. They, uh, god, knew exactly what they needed. And, um, our, I think our initial response is oh, why did he pick her? And that's a wrong pick, that's a bad pick because they're not like us, but God knows what he's doing. And they're lovely, and we're 10, 11 years now into one of the relationships and then about 11, 10 and three, and I can really see how those women are challenging my sons to be the best that they can be and loving them in ways that they need to be loved and balancing them in ways. So we really have to be careful about expectations.
Speaker 2:So I had expectations of a mother-in-law. You know that we would lunch together when we saw each other and we would just sit and chat and we'd have the same things in common, um, very similar to my mom with her daughter's-in-law, um, and that just wasn't my mother-in-law. She was, she was a she's passed, but, um, she was kind of cold, very new England type, not at all interested in feelings, and I was an education major. I was all about feelings, yes, you know, and we really had nothing in common and you know silly things like and I'm just going to say this because I just thought of it, so maybe it's something that someone else will be okay with.
Speaker 2:So, like the very first Christmas that we met, she bought me a size smaller than I wore and it was a small. I'm like I didn't even wear a small when I was a junior in high school. Oh, no, yeah, so you know, but it's so dumb I made it mean oh, she thinks I'm fat and I was. I mean it was not fat. And so we have to just not apply all kinds of emotions and stories to what they do or say. We have to be really careful about that.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, and I can only imagine that. Just like, how do I respond to the size Small? Thank you kind of with this sneer Well that's what Michael said.
Speaker 2:He's like why don't you compliment? And I'm like, come on, really. So anyway, yeah, but you know we grow up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, that's right. But these are real experiences that you have, or the way that someone looks at you, you know, at the dinner table, when you're all at a holiday gathering and you just make something, mean something about that. And so, yeah, expectations are a thing, right when you say I want it to be like this, and then the reality is different. That's just really hard to reconcile inside the difference between what you want and what's happening. And so I think we have to constantly be turning this sort of dial of expectations back to remember she's doing the best she can with the resources she's got and the background that she brings to this relationship. And so I'm going to try to kind of neutralize the expectation and receive, you know, charitably, whatever she's capable of giving me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I want to dive deeper just for a minute on that because, um, you know, we just finished with um, went through the holiday seasons and there's a huge expectations about what happens in the holidays and, um, as a mother-in-law, I want to encourage all mothers-in-law that their children, whether it's their daughter or their sons, um, as adults, they get to decide what they want to do. I really, I think that we have this big problem where there is this expectation that you keep coming around to the mother's house, that you show up at Christmas, that you show up at Easter, that you're always there, you bring your wife, you bring your kids, but you better be there and I, I, I personally think that that creates so much division in a family, um, that you know, the one day they have to be there, one day to prove that they love you. I mean, first of all, you've got all year to show that you love each other and, second of all, what if you had your family celebration on a different day? Because, don't forget, as we talked about, as the husband leaves, you know, both of them leave their family of origin to create a new family that has priority. They get to decide how they want to celebrate those big occasions in their family life.
Speaker 2:I was talking to a client oh gosh, a couple of years ago and it happened to be after Christmas, and I said how was your Christmas? And she said well, I heard your podcast about traditions. And she said you know what our tradition is? On Christmas day, we're in the car, driving from place to place. She said the kids are tired, they're crabby and we never get what we want as a family and I thought that is a real pity. That's awful. So I'm going to offer this to to mothers-in-law. Here's what we do for Christmas anyway. We haven't gotten to a place with Easter or Thanksgiving, but for Christmas we don't celebrate Christmas. I mean, we do celebrate Christmas on Christmas day, but not the whole family.
Speaker 2:So if you're single, if one of my kids are single, they're coming over. You know, michael and I will have a meal with them, my mom. But if you're married, I tell them you do what you want to do for Christmas. So two things one, they get to decide. And two, if they have a mother-in-law who's not you know.
Speaker 2:So, um, I don't know if you want to say gracious, but who demands that they be at her house, they can decide if they want to do that and they don't have to choose. But for me and for our family, we always celebrate Christmas on Feast of the Holy Family, which is just the next Sunday, and so everybody comes over and that's when we celebrate our Christmas. And I really think that we have to think outside the box on how we do major family celebrations, so that there isn't a choice that has to be made. Feelings aren't hurt. We just get proactive in deciding how can we do this so you get to start your little family and have your traditions and we still get to see each other at, you know, a really great holiday time.
Speaker 1:So I think that's Thank you for sharing that from your perspective too of being a mother-in-law and having grown children with their own families. I think that's great advice. I was just talking to a woman coming out of church the other day and she was talking about her most recent holiday. She was so excited. All of my kids and all of their kids came back and I said, oh, my goodness, what a gift that is to you. I said I know what it takes to schlep your kids around you know five hours in the car or whatever, and that's a lot you know and bringing all your stuff and gifts and things. And she said I hope it never ends. Never, I hope it never ends.
Speaker 1:And there was this clutching of you know I could tell that this was something so important to her. But I like what you said. Like you know, let your child decide what they want to do. Maybe some of your kids decide that is worth it for them to make the trip and come and bring all the kids.
Speaker 1:But to give permission to your daughter-in-law and your son is such a beautiful thing because it is a lot you know, and I think you know there's sort of a speaking out of both sides of our mouth if we believe, as a mother-in-law, that it is important for our children, you know, biblically based to leave their father and mother and cleave to their bride. But then we're saying, but not in this instance. Yes, right, not on Christmas day, right, I reign here and you need to do, you know, prioritize me or us over your spouse. It's like, oh, but I thought we were supposed to leave and cleave, you know, and now I'm mixing that up. So thank you for giving that advice. I think that's permission is a huge thing that we seek as daughters-in-law, you know.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 2:So much Another thing that yeah, I think this kind of goes along with it are boundaries. You know, when we have expectations, we sometimes lose the boundary. And so what does that mean? It means that you know if a mother-in-law just wants to see the kids, and she just pops over and knocks on the door and opens the door, and you know, we just have to recognize that we are separate, families separate. We're connected still, but separate in the way we live our lives. And that's probably the biggest thing that many of the daughters-in-law you know express frustration about is that the mother-in-law has there's no boundaries. You know she wants to be in the delivery room. She wants to be. Yeah, I know, it's a thing now.
Speaker 2:I'm like I didn't even want to be in delivery I know, my husband didn't want to be Right, but it's a thing now. Didn't want to be here, right, but it's a thing now. Um, and you know many will come over and you know, um, maybe start cleaning up or whatever without permission, right, um, or just show up without permission. And so what does it mean to create a boundary? Well, first of all, we have to get to a place where we recognize that we're doing it from a sense of calm and love, to enhance the relationship, not to punish her. That's really important. And then we communicate it clearly. So, for instance, if you know the mother-in-law shows up and rings the bell and you feel like I can't just turn her away, um, you can when you say to her here's the thing, when I'm home with the kids, um, I'm really not ready for visitors. So if you would like to come, just call me or text me, ask, and I'll let you know if it's available. But if you come to the door without having asked or, you know, texted or whatever, I won't answer the door. It's just the boundary that I'm going to create. I love you, I want you to see the kids, but I also have a life and I have a schedule and I want to make sure that you know we're doing the things that we need to do for our family, but also we want you to know that we want you to see the kids. We just need some advanced warning.
Speaker 2:So that would be a boundary, as opposed to and I've heard this from some mothers-in-law about their daughter-in-law who just say you know, we're not going to see you again, it's just not happening. There's no understanding as to why. What did I do wrong? You know where has this gone? That's not a boundary, that's a punishment. That's right. Yeah, so we want to be really clear with boundaries and I think to the men, they have to facilitate that boundary. They have to for their wives, they have to really get on the same page, always on the same page, with dealing with both of the mothers you know, her mother, his mother and then, for his mom, helping her understand why his wife has created the boundary and if it's a boundary, that's really not fair. Then have a conversation with his wife and say okay, why are we doing this? Is there a different way that we can, you know, facilitate the end without the punishment aspect of it? Um, and that's, that's just something that you have to work through the boundaries are really important.
Speaker 1:They are. I want to underscore that Boundaries are really important and when you were giving the example of the mother-in-law showing up at the door and just being very specific about okay, this is an issue of you showing up without advance notice. I love you and this is just an incident. This isn't an overall judgment of you as a person, but here's exactly what I'm asking for being specific about that is so crucial to this dynamic because, like you said, you could blow it up and just say in know, in my mind, using that kind of all or nothing thinking where you're saying she always shows up without you know, advanced warning. I'm sick of this, we're not seeing her again. Instead, just addressing things as they come up in the moment, being specific and sticking to the facts that example you gave was very clear. Let your stick into the facts here. Example you gave was very clear that you're sticking to the facts. Here's what just happened. Here's what I would like for you to do. I love you and let's see if we can make this work next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Another place where I think a lot of people overstep boundaries are gift giving. So at Christmas time, lots of mothers-in-law love to just pour their love through gift giving, but a lot of daughters-in-law, especially in this age of minimalism, they don't want all the stuff. And so if your daughter-in-law says to you one gift please, there's probably nothing more that you can do to show your daughter-in-law that you love her than give one gift that shows that you respect her, you respect her judgment, you respect who she is as a mother. And then also for the daughters-in-law if you still get 10 gifts, you should feel the freedom to say to the kids what do you want, and the rest will give to charity. You don't have the obligation to keep what. You know. If someone has gone past the boundary, you don't have the obligation to keep it. So that's you know that's a big thing is the amount of gifts that people give. So you know, I think that we have to remember that as women we have different you know, we call them love languages, right Different ways that we show love. We're just different personalities.
Speaker 2:Like I mentioned about my daughters-in-law, never occurred to me that my sons would choose the daughters that they chose. I thought they would choose like me. And so we have to kind of keep reminding ourselves of that, that she's different and that's okay. She, you know, if she does something that we would be like, what the heck? We just have to be like, well, that's who she is, that's okay, she's different. But when we go into that, you know that, um, like rabbit hole of, oh my gosh, I can't believe she did that and what is she thinking, and you know what is she trying to prove and what is she saying about me. It's like that. You know that spiral thinking that never goes well because it creates those feelings, whether they're anger or disappointment or frustration or whatever. They're always negative feelings. And then when we have those negative feelings, we show up in ways that we don't really want to show up.
Speaker 2:And so and I think that that probably is maybe the biggest message I would like to offer to people is, ask yourself who do you want to be in this relationship, no matter what she does, whether it's the mother-in-law or daughter-in-law, who do you want to be in this relationship? And you know, maybe even write down I want to be patient, I want to be understanding, I want to have clear boundaries. I mean, it doesn't mean that you have to be the doormat, but who is God calling you to be as a woman to this other woman and then kind of keep going back to that? What do you want to think about her? And when a negative thought comes up, how can you change it? So it's a thought that is positive that you can still believe.
Speaker 2:When she gives 10 gifts and you know you told her one gift, you know a million times your thought could be she disrespects me because she keeps giving 10 gifts, right, right. But what if you change that? What if you reframe that to? That's her love language. That's how she shows her love. It's okay, I don't have to keep it. I don't have to get angry about it. It's just who she is.
Speaker 1:Oh that, just right at the beginning, when you said, oh, she's giving 10 gifts here. She's doing this again. I've told her a million times. I kind of felt this tension inside, like yeah, yeah. And then when you said, you know, this is who she is, this is how she expresses love, this is one of her love languages, like gift giving is a thing that brings her joy, well then I can say okay, and I also have the choice of you know, sifting through these with my kids and saying, okay, which one are we going to keep and which one could we bless other people with, because we're not bringing all these into the home.
Speaker 1:But that's such a difference. The reframe makes such a difference because, man, if you stick with that first train of thought, we are not doing gifts. You know Christmas with your mother again, I can hear that you know happening and just going down this whole, like let's just cut off this relationship, it's too much to deal with versus that empathetic curiosity oh yeah, she is a gift giver, this is what brings her joy, and instead of cutting her off from that, we're just going to do with these gifts what we want once we get back home and it'll be okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it will be okay. The world will not come to an end, you'll just figure it out. You may even pack up nine of them and put them away, and in the middle of the summer, when the kids are making you crazy, you pull out one of those gifts if you want you know, God bless grandma.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right. And then going back to that man in the middle, I think there's another point that I wanted to just bring up that as his wife, we have to be very sensitive to the place that he is in. That means that we don't complain to him all the time about her. We don't, you know, get angry with him maybe for not, you know, stepping up. I mean, there was an episode that his mother, michael's mother, spoke to me really poorly and said some really harsh things and this is the very beginning of our relationship and marriage and Michael didn't say anything. I was so angry, I felt betrayed by my husband. But what we have to remember is he's learning too. He's learning a very difficult task of keeping two women happy, two probably very different women, and we have to have empathy for him. Now that doesn't mean that, you know, we don't. We don't bring up, you know, maybe, big issues and say, how can we resolve this, like the two of us, um. But we don't say, okay, yep, your mom did it again. As you get in the car, leaving her house, you know she's off, you know, um. And on the flip side, you know, as a mother-in-law, we don't call him up, we don't call her son up and say what on earth is wrong with your wife, you up. We don't call her son up and say what on earth is wrong with your wife. You know she can't control the kids. They're always crying, you know. Whatever it is, um, that's he's. He's not the place for that. It's unfair to him actually. And so that's where we get back into the reframing, rather than just like making him the punching bag, you know, and just vomiting all of our unhappiness or our anger or disappointment or unmet expectations on him. That's not his problem. We have to figure out how to reframe so that we're at peace, and that goes back to the emotional regulation. So, you know, kind of covering everything or maybe it's actually supporting everything.
Speaker 2:I think it's probably supporting everything is taking the responsibility as mature women, whether we're the daughter-in-law or mother-in-law, to take responsibility for our own emotions. For our own emotions, um, we, just because someone acts some way, doesn't mean that, you know, we have to make it mean something negative. We can choose. Goes back to the previous example. We can choose whatever we want to think about it, um, and we can't depend on her to make us happy. I was depending on my mother-in-law to make me feel like I was a good daughter-in-law, and she didn't do it. She couldn't do it Right Chronic disappointment, exactly, and so I was very unhappy.
Speaker 2:But when we take control of our own emotions, it doesn't matter what other people do, because we make the decision. Well, that's who they are, and I choose not to be upset about it. And we live in this world where emotions drive everything. Emotions are important, but they're not the most important. I mean, we need to think, we need to be more conscious of how we're thinking, because it's those thoughts that create those feelings. We don't even realize that. We just think, we're just feeling all the time. And so, with regards to our in-law, you know, decide, I'm not going to, I'm not going to give over, basically surrender my emotions, my emotional regulation, my happiness, to someone that you know, to anybody else, really anyone else. I'm going to take responsibility for my emotions.
Speaker 1:Yes, I fully agree with you and that I think sometimes in this relationship that can be so delicate and and just hard to navigate, especially right when you get married um, you know, there can be the like okay, you know, I'm setting this boundary, and if you don't uphold this boundary and just just going down this rabbit hole, if this doesn't happen, then this is what I'm going to do to you and again, you're giving all your power and control over to the other person, versus just politely setting a boundary and then allowing them to respond or react in whatever way they respond or react, but that also doesn't mean we have to then play off of their reaction and keep this negativity going, we can politely step away or say I can tell you're really upset right now and I'm just going to need a little time out.
Speaker 1:but I think we can call each other tomorrow, once we've slept on this, and return to the conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think what you said was good. You know, we don't walk into a relationship and start setting boundaries and I think a lot of people do that. Let's just let people live for a little bit and understand each other. And again, I think I said it in the very beginning it takes time. It takes time to get to know someone. It takes time to feel comfortable with it. I mean like years it takes years. Why do we think it doesn't? I know.
Speaker 1:And if you're listening to this and you're thinking, okay, janet and Jordan, you have no idea what's going on over here in my relationship with my daughter-in-law or my mother-in-law, like, it's way different it's. You can't rescue this. This is just, you know, pure hell. But I just want to encourage you that there's always hope, you know, and it might not be quite as wrecked as you have built up in your mind, even though it feels really heavy or distant or totally, you know, separate. There's always a chance of reconciliation in any relationship and, personally, one of the things that I've used in my relationship with my mother-in-law is like just self-deprecating humor every once in a while and just going, you know what? That probably was totally my fault, you know. I just we've never been on vacation with you overseas, you know. So this is a new, even though we've. You know, my husband and I have been married 20 years.
Speaker 1:Just a couple of years ago, we went to Greece with our in-laws, you know, for two weeks, and so there was a lot of little incidences where you're like, why is this happening? And it's like, hello, because we've never traveled and been on a bus together for days or whatever, you know. And so this is just new. This is just new territory and we're all trying to navigate it and kind of there can be a feeling of like walking on eggshells sometime, like oh, is that going to upset her or is that going to upset? And my mother-in-law feels the same way. I can tell Like there's this little trepidation. Like mom feels the same way. I can tell like there's this little trepidation, like should I ask her if it's okay if we go to the certain restaurant, you know? So there's a sensitivity happening and I think if both of you can just go, okay, this is new. This takes time. We've never been here before. Again, it's that empathy, that compassion, and it changes the lens through which you end up feeling about whatever words are exchanged.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and, and you go back to the we're different, we're just different. Yeah, it's interesting. You were on your. I was thinking you have two weeks of in Greece with in-laws and I I wonder you know, did you have any kind of conflicts with your husband during that time? I bet you did. I mean, I would have right, oh, I'm shy. Yeah, but we make it mean more when it's about her right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Why do we do this? I don't know. I don't know. You know, in every relationship we're going to have conflict of some kind, for you know, some more than others, and I do think I've heard from women, as I said, on both sides, maybe ends of the spectrum, where they I think we throw around this term toxic we have a toxic daughter-in-law, I have a toxic mother-in-law, so I'm not I mean, I know that there's a definition for it but I would be very, very careful about identifying and labeling a toxic mother-in-law or a toxic daughter-in-law, because as soon as you label them, that it's suddenly like, and I can't do anything about it, that's just who she is right.
Speaker 2:So, really, you know, there's this saying the mind finds what it seeks, and I think that we have to look more in our relationships all of our relationships, really, but especially, probably, with our in-law relationship we have to look for the ways in which they are kind, look for the ways in which they are generous, because if we're looking for the ways in which they are not, we're going to find them and we're going to focus on them. The brain loves the negative and we're just going to focus on that all the time and it's going to feel like you know we're going to be defeated. This will never be good, but if we can find like when Michael said that she's doing the best she can, I started looking at some of the things that she did do um, that was just the best that she could do, rather than focusing on that negative all the time.
Speaker 1:That is so important and that is a real practical tool. You know, if you're listening, go on the hunt. Challenge yourself, go on the hunt for something that your mother-in-law or daughter-in-law does well, and maybe, if you're experiencing a strained relationship with your mother-in-law or daughter-in-law, challenge yourself to write down two things every morning when you first wake up, that is positive about the other person, because you will find that, like Janet you said, the mind will find what it's seeking or what it's looking after. And so if you train your mind, even with a short journal prompt, you know positives about my mother-in-law or positives about my daughter-in-law, you're going to start noticing the little things that are beautiful about her.
Speaker 1:And I want to circle back to what you said before about talking to your husband about their mother, or you know even mother-in-laws talking to their husbands about their daughter-in-law spot. But it's really kind of an attempt to persuade the other person that they're really kind of bad or or this isn't good, and you should be equally as upset as I am. You know, we should share the same view on how rough this really is and that's just not fair to to really put all of your um, you know of your perceptions on another person and then sort of work to convince them to look at that person in the same way. Right, we would never want that to happen to us.
Speaker 2:We don't, but we want an ally, right. When we think something negative of someone, we want an ally. When we think something negative of someone, we want an ally. And you're right, it's unfair because as soon as we label them, brand them something, and then we get other people to think the same thing, that poor person, whether it's the daughter or the mother-in-law, shouldn't have a chance. And for mothers-in-law, I would really encourage you to be patient. Be patient with this woman. She's a girl in your mind, probably, right, she's young and whatever, and she has completely, probably, different ideas of what you.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know my daughters are all about, you know, making sure everything is healthy, and I don't even know the terminology that they use for the milk that they get and all of that. And I'm like my kids grew up on Captain Crunch, so you know it's, it's understanding, that's okay, that's who they are. You know things have evolved. It's been, you know, 40 years, 35 years, and so let them be who they. Let them experience things, let them try things, without jumping in and saying you really don't want to do that. That's really not going to work. Support them just by loving them. It doesn't mean you have to say anything and you don't have to solve all their problems. That's, you know, because we think we have the wisdom and we do have the wisdom, but they have to gain it, just like we had to gain it. You know, we had to. We had to learn things through trial and error, and they do too, and we just need to love them through the learning.
Speaker 1:I love that advice and I think, just to piggyback off of that, even asking like would you mind if I gave you a tip about tantruming, right, and they. And then respect if they say, no, I really I'm not up for for advice right now. I can't handle that right now, maybe another day, okay, no problem. But I think both parties can ask permission, right? Would it be okay when I come visit if I bring a lasagna? That's what my mother-in-law says? And I'm like be okay when I come visit if I bring a lasagna? That's what my mother-in-law says? And I'm like, yes, this would be great. And sometimes I say I've already got tons of groceries from Costco and I've got meals planned out. Thank you so much, but next time I'll take you up on the offer, right? So just asking, and then honoring the person's boundary too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and just going back to boundaries kind of, as we kind of wrap it up a little bit, um, we, we must remember that we are two separate families, united but we're separate, and I think that probably is the biggest expectation that um trips everyone up.
Speaker 2:As daughters-in-law, we feel like we should make her happy by doing what she's expecting or what she wants, which only causes resentment in us and as the mother-in-law, we forget that she's starting a new family and we need to give her that space and the freedom that's rightfully hers to start that new family. So I think, probably the biggest thing and we always leave it to the end because everybody wants practical, practical, practical right but we need to pray more for our mother-in-law or our daughter-in-law. And you will find I found it in my life that when I pray for someone the resentments just go away. Not sometimes it takes a while, depending on how deep the resentment is, but it will go away. And the more we pray for someone, the more actually we fall in love with them because we want what's best for them. And sometimes I have found when I'm praying for someone I see where I can do better and that's important as part of our prayer. So I think both should be praying for each other, and then let's pray for that man in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yes, let's pray for that man in the middle as well. I love that and, yes, that is something that we can do. That is not scary. It's not stepping out in a new, assertive way right off the bat, but just praying. Lord, soften my heart towards this woman. Lord, help me and my husband be on the same page in setting healthy boundaries and developing our own family. Help me to respect my daughter-in-law's decisions around the holidays and to support them truly leaving the home and cleaving to one another. Right. I mean simple prayers that make a huge difference. So, janet, as always, you've given us such hope and practical wisdom and I just want to thank you again for coming on our show. Tell us a little bit about I mean, you've coached women in this dynamic and you have a course for both mothers and daughters that can log in and take your digital course that is more expansive on this relationship, right?
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, so I took all of the knowledge of being a daughter-in-law, a mother-in-law, and then all the people that I coach and the things that they deal with, and I kind of sifted it down to a few main points and so it's called the mother-in-law daughter-in-law dynamic, and so it's called the Mother-in-Law-Daughter-in-Law Dynamic and it's about creating just a healthy relationship. So I did create it for both and actually I have had a mother-in-law and daughter-in-law. The pair come in and take the course together, and so it was very interesting. I think they were very open to each other, which I thought was just so beautiful interesting. I think they were very open to each other, which I thought was just so beautiful.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, so it's a course about how to have emotional independence from each other, how to let go of expectations, how to set those thoughtful boundaries, how to have effective communication skills so that you're connecting rather than disconnecting skills, so that you're connecting rather than disconnecting, and then really focusing on your husband or your son, and how to not make it hard on him. So yeah, it's been pretty successful. People have found it to be very helpful and they can just go to JanetQuinlancom. If you scroll down the homepage, it's at the bottom of the page. You can find it there.
Speaker 1:That's Janet Quinlan dot com. We have that linked in our show notes, so be sure to sift through our show notes. Click on that link and you will see that course offered on her website. I think this would be a really cool gift to give, like your sister if she's getting married, maybe not your daughter-in-law if she's marrying her son.
Speaker 2:That might be an overstep at the boundaries to gift her that, but you might even say but to be honest, no, but truthfully, the mother-in-law this pair that came in, she paid for both of them. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, it was really lovely. And I asked the daughter-in-law because I needed to understand if there was conflict between them, what was going on. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, it was really lovely. And I asked the daughter-in-law because I needed to understand if there was conflict between them, what was going on, because I did a coaching with them and she's like no, no, no, we're both very open, we both know we need help and we're good. I'm like, wow, that's wonderful and mature.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that is fantastic. The earlier you can get this course, the better. Think about it. If you have children who are in college and are dating, that you keep this in your back pocket and maybe even purchase it and go through it yourself and then think of other people, you could refer to this digital course. I just think this is something every single married couple can benefit from, and so why not jump in, dive in, check it out, be open and have that curiosity to learn something new and really implement some new skills?
Speaker 1:So if you're listening today and you're again just kind of questioning, just remember that, no matter how rocky things may feel now, change is absolutely possible and with emotional independence, grace and a little intentional effort, you can bridge, build this kind of bridge that lasts in your family for generations right. You can model healthy relationship with your mother-in-law which your kids will witness and be able to pass on for generations to come. So I think it's a absolutely worthwhile effort to dive in, invest some money and take the course and see how your relationships can change. Janet, thanks again for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely, janetquinlancom and guys, I will catch you on another episode of our show real soon. Please be sure to share this episode with your spouse first and foremost, and then kick this out to everybody in your circle. This is a common issue that needs to be addressed, and there's so much great fruit that can come from it. So please share this episode with people in your circle, take care, and we'll catch you on another episode real soon.
